Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Unknown Residence Blank
Are we changing the meaning of this blank to apply to everyone, then? Because when we made these blanks, they were originally only meant for the ghost cats/purgatory cats from A Vision of Shadows (including more recently: Pebbleshine and Ashfoot). We need to have that discussion before anything is posted on the approval page, because the blanks as we currently have them don't apply to anything other than the ghost cats (which we'll need to change the file names for those ANYWAYS, depending on the outcome here), so if we start making them for characters like Jake, Ravenpaw, ect, we'll need to officially change the intent behind these blanks. ​​​​

I honestly didn't originally know that they were solely for the AVoS ghosts, I saw Riin reserve one and figured they were meant for other characters as well. I don't see why they couldn't have the intent for other characters. They are named Unknown Residence and since Jake, Scourge, etc. have the affiliation of that it would make sense to give them that as well. Minkclaw Winter is coming. 04:09, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

That's my bad for reserving early, whoops. But I do agree they should be considered "unknown residence" as well. 04:11, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

I'm personally of the mindset that the unknown residence blanks should be reserved for any unknown afterlife. The blanks were created because the "rank" holds significance like StarClan and the Dark Forest. It's a destination. Cat purgatory. A place for good kittypets. All afterlives. Neither StarClan or Dark Forest, but somewhere present and mingling around. As for the actual "unknown residence" cats...I don't think they should have this blank. For the infobox, I'm all for it. But as a rank, I disagree. The thing with an "unknown residence" is just that. It's unknown. We don't know where the cat ended up. They died, but they didn't end up in StarClan, the Dark Forest, or some form of alternative afterlife. No one knows, hence why it's "unknown".

However, some of them, such as Tom, Jake and maybe Ravenpaw (might have to look at the cite closely), could have this blank imo. They've been confirmed with the cites (again, might have to double check) to be present in some sort of afterlife. I think for the sanity of creating blanks with one or two cats in it, those three aforementioned should get the "unknown residence blank". Cats like Tigerstar, Spottedleaf, and Scourge should not have one since they just died (again) and went nowhere...somewhere unknown even to the authors. That's just my interpretation.

tl;dr cats who have been confirmed to be in some sort of afterlife that's not StarClan or the Dark Forest, should get it, but cats who died and the authors have confirmed they have no died and don't know where they went, should not get it. 04:23, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

use the blanks for both, just rename purgatory cats to ghost.png. 04:25, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

I don't think Jake and Ravenpaw and them should have these blanks... I think they were meant solely for the cats who were stuck between the real world and the afterlife. Not knowing a cat's residence vs. a cat actually being described with no true residence are completely different things. So I think they should just be for the ghost cats.  JOLLY  FIRE  06:00, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

Scourge is the only cat to be confirmed not in any official residence I think, (though Vicky's comment was incredibly vague) while, Ravenpaw and Tom have been confirmed to be in an else where residency. To expand on my comment from before, I believe cats with unknown residencies should get the blank since StarClan, the DF and soon Endless Hunting will have afterlife blanks, I think it'd be fair to give cats with a confirmed sort of afterlife blanks as well. I agree with David's idea of just renaming the files/titles but using the blanks for both, since they're all described to be in some form of afterlife. 06:19, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with them getting the blank, we can rename the files like was suggested above. 16:08, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

I also agree with them using this blank. 16:26 Sun Nov 25

Just to be clear (since this is something I was confused with at first reading some of the comments), this would not be for typical deceased Clan cats who which we don't have a confirmation of a post-death residence, correct? (such as Briarlight) The general idea here seems to be for those who have some kind of afterlife confirmed- I want to make sure everyone's on the same page here, so we don't get more arguments in the future. ​​

I agree, I think it'd only be okay with cats to have a confirmed unknown residence much like Ravenpaw, Scourge, Jake, etc. With a cite that is. Minkclaw Winter is coming. 20:20, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

Yes this is purely for cats who have been confirmed on their afterlives, so Jake, Scourge, Tom and Ravenpaw. Cats like Briarlight and others who have not been confirmed to have an afterlife should not get a blank since we don't know where they are and their is no confirmation of where they are in general. Cats who have a confirmed and specified afterlife should get a blank and cats who have died but have not been seen/confirmed in an afterlife should not. Not knowing where they are and them being in different afterlives are two different things, in my opinion. 20:41, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

What about Tigerstar, Spottedleaf, Brokenstar, and Hawkfrost? 20:47, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

They're just gone. The cats that died twice will never make another appearance and have no residence.  JOLLY  FIRE  20:48, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

That comes in question, should there be a no residence blank? 20:48, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

I think that cats that die 2 times should get a blank, and cats with unknown residence should get one, and Scourge... he... uh... is gone. IDK what to do about him. ~RAR =^.,.^= Im spoopy kittan! 02:19, November 26, 2018 (UTC)

Well all Vicky said about Scourge is that because he doesn't believe in StarClan, then he's not in the Dark Forest or any Clan-affiliated afterlife. I think Scourge can be up to interpretation. ​​​​

I don't think there should be a "no residence" blank, since how can we give a blank to a cat that doesn't exist anymore? It's like Hawkey and others said; they're poof, gone. They don't exist anymore. It is different from an afterlife because some cats still exist after they died. Cats such as Tigerstar and Spottedleaf don't. On the topic of Scourge, I don't think he qualifies for this blank in the definition we're going by. Looking at the Erin Hunter Chat 3 (where the cite says it is), Scourge has no concept of afterlife, and he didn't go to the Dark Forest or StarClan...so my interpretation is that Scourge is just like Tigerstar and Spottedleaf: gone. He doesn't exist anymore. He didn't believe in any afterlife, so he didn't go to any after he died. 02:40, November 26, 2018 (UTC)

The cats that died twice like Spottedleaf among others wouldn't get a blank, I think it was said that they'd keep their last image blanks? Minkclaw Winter is coming. 02:51, November 26, 2018 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure. I do agree with that, since they have no affiliation whereas cats with an afterlife technically do. I think only Jake, Tom and Ravenpaw should get an unknown blank since they at least have been confirmed to be in an afterlife, just an unspecified one. ​​​​

I disagree with using the blank for cats like Jake, Tom, and Ravenpaw. Cats like Jake and Ravenpaw are actually in the afterlife, in the skies, and can and have visited StarClan even though they themselves live in different skies, as opposed to the ghost cats, who are trapped on earth until whatever unsettled business they have is taken care of and then they join StarClan. I really don't think we should equate these two situations, which to me seem rather different, by using the same blank. 21:27, December 1, 2018 (UTC)

If Jake has visited StarClan, shouldn't there be a reference/citation that he has thus giving him the StarClan cat rank? I don't see why they can't have both as well. Minkclaw Winter is coming. 00:02, December 3, 2018 (UTC)

I think the cite was only that Tallstar travels outside of StarClan to visit Jake iirc. ​​​​

^ Cite here. It only mentions Tallstar visiting Jake outside of StarClan, rather than Jake going into StarClan. ​​​​

Any more comments? 01:24, December 14, 2018 (UTC)

So what about Jake, Tom, and Ravenpaw? Do we think they should get an unknown blank or not? 05:44, December 16, 2018 (UTC)

I think those three should since they are confirmed to reside somewhere, but not any other character with no confirmed residence. 17:43, December 16, 2018 (UTC)

I'm agreeing with Ivy here - those three aren't ghost cats, and our unknown blank was created for ghost cats. Imo, that ghost-state of being half-stuck is an actual rank in and of itself. Raven and the others should have a different blank depicting that they have a confirmed afterlife that isn't ghost, StarClan, ToEH, or any of the others like DF. 17:54, December 16, 2018 (UTC)

Should we rename our existing blank to be "ghost" to avoid confusion and then make a new blank for actual unknown residences? —​​​​

I think we should, because it's not strictly an unknown residence--we know where they reside, just not the name of said residence. Plus, they don't exactly walk the same skies as Jake and the others.

Let's rename it then. I read the comments ^^ and I think Scourge should have an Unknown Blank. Since he's dead, and he doesn't have anywhere to reside to, he should be unknown. -- Silverfur   skz  [ 05:20, 12/25/2018 ]

i dont agree with scourge because the way it was worded "Nope, because he doesn't believe in StarClan, and therefore has no concept of any sort of after life." is basically saying he didn't go anywhere, somewhat along the line of currently faded cats. 22:17, December 25, 2018 (UTC)

Any other comments? I also support the renaming ~

Oh look i did forget to comment. I support renaming and giving them their own blank. 03:52, January 13, 2019 (UTC)

Late, but I support the same. Scourge shouldn't get a blank though, it should just be Jake, Tom and anyone else I might be missing. I also wanna clarify - this is only going towards the Jake cats where they are in an afterlife but not in one that we know of/thats been revealed correct? I remember some talk of whether this would apply to dead cats who aren't yet confirmed in an afterlife (like Reedshine, Briarlight, Appledusk) Cats who are dead but have not been given a direct afterlife. I personally disagree with the idea of giving them an "unknown res" blank since some aren't even shown dead, but I'm curious on others' opinion on that. —

Kits, Warriors, Leaders, and Kittypets
Since the kittypet blanks are already posted, the leader blanks will be posted, and the votes for both the kits and warriors already up, shouldn't we just halt work on all four blanks? It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever to continue to work on those four blanks, given two of them already have blanks set, and the other two are in the process of having one selected. If we were still voting on redoing them or not, I could see not halting it.... but everything's been approved and we're already in the later stages. I get finding something to do, but posting an image that'll just be redone soon is a huge waste of time imo. ​

It would be much easier to stop, too. Each time they go up means that it is a chance they do not go on the OA lists.

For that, if someone reading recently got a warrior/kit/kittypet/leader image approved, chances are it is not on the OA list. Please put them here if you do have it: Warrior OAs, Kittypet OAs, Leader OAs, and Kit OAs. These are places to reserve images you are the OA of, and if someone reserves it while not seeing you are the OA of it because it is on the list, well... 17:27, January 20, 2019 (UTC)

^I'm in favor of halting artwork for those blanks. We've had lulls before, and it won't be long until the kittypet and leader blanks will be approved. 19:52, January 20, 2019 (UTC)

We should officially halt production, yeah. I mean most people have been not doing them anyways because common sense, but the redoes are so imminent now that should be formal.

Alright any other comments before we formally close them? We can leave a note at the top of the /List page and use collapsibles to hide all of the warrior minor cats that are stacking up.

I like the idea of using a collapsible. 11:20, January 30, 2019 (UTC)

Kits and warriors
So there have been some comments flying around on how we should approach the kit/warrior redo. I have a few questions I want to ask.

Question 1: How should we proceed with whoever wins to put up their blanks? Should we:

A.) Wait until the kittypet / leader rush is over and have someone tell the winner to put the blanks up, and after the blanks are approved, start doing the art

B.) Same as above, but wait for both kit and warrior to be approved and then start art

C.) After the votes ends, instantly have whoever wins put their blanks for approval, but once they are approved, neither are in use yet until announced

Thoughts on that?

Question 2: How do we proceed with making the art when they get approved? The kits + warriors have over 1300 images. Do we:

A.) Go alphabetical with just one group (such as kit/warrior). Possibly split this up into sections such as A-D, E-J, K-N, O-R, S-U, V-Z, and when that is finished, do the other group and split it up in the same way.

B.) Go by Clan with one group (kit or warrior) splitting up by ThunderClan/RiverClan/WindClan/ShadowClan/SkyClan/Unknown, and when that is finished, do the other group and split it up in the same way.

C.) Same as A, but having both kit and warrior at the same time. This would need to be in place after both blanks are approved.

D.) Same as B, but once again, both kit and warrior.

Question 3:

How many images should one have?

A.) Two images, both free for game for everyone.

B.) Extend image limit to 3 for just warriors (or apprentices). If this route is chosen, it would have to be discussed on what images you can have, whether two OA, one OA, all free game, etc.

C.) Two images, but one of them must be an original OA if you have one (see here and here) and the other can be what you wish as long as someone else has not reserved it.

D.) Two images, but both must be the ones you are an OA of.

Question 4:

When should we do it? I brought it up in an earlier point, but when exactly?

A.) After kittypet and leader

B.) After minor characters

C.) After Lost Stars

D.) Before Lost Stars

F.) Some distant time in the future, can be decided in a separate discussion later

Please feel free to voice other opinions as well, these are not the only answers. These are just several questions that need to be addressed before anything starts. 17:17, January 20, 2019 (UTC)

I would just like to add my own thoughts - personally, for Question 1 I would like to go with C, 2 I would like A, 3 I also prefer C, and 4 I think F, so we can have a discussion when we all want to start. 17:36, January 20, 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, one more addition. If the discussion page gets too messy, we could always put it up to a vote too. 17:38, January 20, 2019 (UTC)

Mine would be C, D, B, A.

Mine is C, B, D, A Malina457 (talk) 19:49, January 20, 2019 (UTC)malina

Mine would be C for the first one. A or B for the second one; I don't think it's a good idea to have both blank redo art at the same time. I can see that getting very chaotic with people scrambling to get the ones they want done. One at a time would make things a bit calmer imo. C for the third one; I think making the OAs reserve at least one of their artwork would prevent anyone from claiming too many. For the fourth one, I'll go with F, but definitely after the kittypet and leader redos. 19:51, January 20, 2019 (UTC)

A, and then for the second, I would actually rather do it in order of books. Lost Stars and the novellas are coming soon, and we should start doing warriors/kits for those books first, then implement them by series/books. Maybe whenever they get/first appear with their warrior name. Then B and C for the last two questions. I have no idea if this makes sense, but we should get the new book chararts out of the way first. —​

1) C

2) C

3) D And I'd like to say that I don't think it's fair if people can take original images AND new ones at the same time, because that would give them an unfair advantage in terms of the number of images they can take (if that makes sense?) What I'm saying is some people have a lot of these images pre-reserved and thus would have claim to more images in general. I'd say people should finish the images that they are the OA of before they can claim new ones.

4) A

1) A.

2) C.

3) D.

4) A 01:26, January 22, 2019 (UTC)

A, D, B, A. 01:55, January 22, 2019 (UTC)

B, A, C, A -- Silverfur's     starry     paws      ~    10:15, January 22, 2019 (UTC)

A, D, B, A. I feel if we hold off and discuss it, though, it'll just keep getting put off, since discussions here often die due to lack of interest.

C, C, C, F 14:21, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

My personal take on this:

1. C - yes the lulls can last for a while, but approving blanks takes a lot longer than approving chararts, so if we get them up we'll have less work to do come lulls.

2. A or B - split it up by Clan or alphabetical order, I don't care. I feel like if we do both at once the approval page is gonna get a bit hectic. Organizing it by rank feels a bit more controllable imo.

3. B - Not everyone has a warrior, and it would be unfair for others to get tons of warriors to work on while some (myself included) get only a couple or even none at all. However the OAs obviously get their images, because it would be unfair for someone else to take it.

4. No opinion.

c, a, d, a, i think. I always get lost trying to read all this. 01:12, January 27, 2019 (UTC)

Just wanted to let people know that when answering the splitting it up, the list is already there all in alphabetical order, and it would take hours to split it up into Clans. So I change my mind to doing it in alphabetical order, unless everyone wants to pitch in and make a list of warriors and kits in Clan order. 01:36, January 27, 2019 (UTC)

With question 1 having a consensus in answer C, that will proceed. 08:27, January 27, 2019 (UTC)

Star brings up a really good point - I don't think it'd be fair that people can only reserve images they are the OA of. I know for myself speaking, I have one claim in total for both kits and warriors, and if we put this extension up for only OA images, some people are going to get nothing or very little whereas some people with get dozens of images. —

Yeat, that wouldn't be fair to only reserve images they have claim to. Unless something is already pre-reserved in the lists that Icy has, everything else is fair game and should never be otherwise. I think it's basically saying that those who have others reserved are only allowed to reserve what they have, which is equally unfair, imo. You can't tell someone they can't have an image if it's free game. =/ I get not being an image hog, but if someone only wants one or two that aren't theirs, then there honestly is not an issue.

Yeah, I'm a bit confused on the wording of that option. I think it'd be okay to also reserve images that are fair game even with the limit increase. People who have their OA claims will get to their OA claims and if not, then their image just becomes fair game eventually as well. I don't really see a reason to restrict it to "you can only reserve images you're the OA of" because that shafts a lot of newer people and adds more complication to how we'll complete all the images. —

Mhm, exactly. What is claimed and isn't done will eventually just become free game anyways. Plus, there really isn't any point in restricting anyone when we have a lot of work to get done.

Sorry I might not have been clear. What I meant for that question is you first have to get all of the ones you pre reserves finished then you can reserve free game ones. 22:13, January 27, 2019 (UTC)

yeah I kinda agree with icy here because it's certainly not fair to reserve free images if you have a huge list of your own, while also keeping those. one or two images? sure reserve another, but I do think people should be doing their own if they intend to keep them before moving onto free ones. 22:17, January 27, 2019 (UTC)

Aaah, okay. That I can 100% agree on. I assumed that for the first lil bit you could only reserve OA images. —

Yeah that was what I was trying to say. I think if the OA really wants their images they should take those first before they can move onto a new image.

Sounds fair to me^^

Hm so wait - when kits and warrior are up, do we want to have claims to our pre reserved images first, and then only be able to reserve free game images after they are finished? Or did we want one original, one free? 01:27, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

I would say you have to complete all your pre reserved onesfirst. i mean, if you didn’t want them, you shouldn’t have reserved them. 01:33, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

Hmm. If we do two then yeah I agree with Ari^^ However, if we do the warriors get three I think it would be okay if they had to do two of their originals before taking a new one.

Gonna be redoing my answers here: (Omitting question one since warrior blanks are already up for approval and such) A, D, D

I still prefer my idea of doing it by book and starting with Lost Stars, but I do know that may not be very practical and since we already (for the most part) have an alphabetical list of the chararts that will need to be done (Thanks Icy <3) I think that'd be the best course of action since separating the blanks by Clan or book or what may be would be a ton of extra work. —

I am somewhat begging for us to do this in alphabetical order simply because I do not know if I can find the strength to organize these guys by Clan. 11:16, January 30, 2019 (UTC)

I don't really care for how we organize them. Sorting them alphabetically seems more practical over sorting them by clan because the images are already sorted in alphabetical order.

Reservations for warrior and kit redos
I wanted to make a separate section for this so it did not clog up the other one.

So we were discussing on how the reservations would work and I presented a few options.

1.) Two images, both you have to be the OA of (that you crossed out here.

2.) Two images, one you have to be the OA of and one you do not have to be (which is free game, seen here.

3.) Two images, both can be free game (either OA of or not.)

4.) Three images, which can have several ways to go about it.

4a.) One you have to be the OA of, rest are free game

4b.) Two you have to be the OA of, other is free game

4c.) All three you have to be the OA of.

And finally, the last one:

Should only warriors and above get three images? Or should apprentices and kits get them as well?

Please share your thoughts below. I am really sorry if this was complicated, I did not know how to simplify it more. Oh, and I am not saying that you can only reserve images you are the OA of throughout this entire rush, the OA options I presented is that you have to finish those images first, then once you finished everything you crossed off, you can have free game ones. 11:01, January 30, 2019 (UTC)

I'll go with option four on this one, and I think at least one should be something you've reserved... but I feel most of us are just going to do our own work first anyways. I think anyone ranked warrior and above should be allowed three, and if someone ranked lower wants to give more than one image at a time a shot, we shouldn't be trying to deter them from that. If they personally feel they can handle it, I say let them have a try and see what comes of it. ​​

If you guys go with option 4 can you comment on which one you prefer, a, b, or c? Just so it is easier for me to collect data. Cloudy, are you going with a? 11:07, January 30, 2019 (UTC)

Oh, whoops, sorry about that. Yeah, option a. I completely forgot to mention that above, my apologies. ​​

Either 4c or 1

4c 12:28, January 30, 2019 (UTC)

4b, and only warriors and above should get 3, sonce it takes kits and apprentices more time to get images approved. Where we have an image limit on the approval page, warriors and up get images approved quicker but if we have kids and apps posting 3 images the page will get clogged 12:47, 01/30/2019

4b, for me warriors or above for three

4b, warriors and above are allowed three images. Maybe let apprentices try two if they want but keeping three to warriors and higher. SquidwardPlays 16:09, January 30, 2019 (UTC)

4b, and I think apprentices can get to try, but only if they have dinner like... 2 or 3 approved, probably 3. ❈ Love is Love, forever! ❈ =^.,.^= 16:25, January 30, 2019 (UTC)

4B as well for me, and warriors and above for three images. 17:27, January 30, 2019 (UTC)

4c. —

4b, warriors and above three images.

18:28, January 30, 2019 (UTC)

4b -- Silverfur's     starry     paws    <span style="" title="Go on your own path, my lane">  ~    07:23, January 31, 2019 (UTC)

4c. i support c cuz they're your images so it makes sense to expand the limit even further and get them done 14:14, January 31, 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I did want to add - for 4b, which is two OA images one free game one, the "free game one" can be one of the images you still reserved. It can be any image as long as it is not someone else's. 14:07, February 1, 2019 (UTC)

Not sure if this belongs to this section but are we allowed to pre-reserve images that we tweaked previously and that the OA is inactive?

Well, that was not part of my plan because regardless if one tweaked it, they are not the original OA (unless they are) so therefore they are unable to prereserve it. Others might think otherwise, though, so what does everyone think? 14:48, February 1, 2019 (UTC)

Tweaks shouldn't count towards OA claims. Some of yall already have 50, 100 claims on images, and some of us have 1 or 2. I don't think it's fair to add tweaks to claims since that just limits the pool thats fair game and its unfair to those who don't have any claims to begin with. —

Hmm yeah that, near everything would be claimed if we did that rip, and we'd have a lot of conflicting claims too

Re-join?
Hi - it's been a while, but I'd love to jump right back into creating chararts again! 20:26 Sat Feb 2 2019

Sure, welcome back! Make sure to reread the rules. 20:49, February 2, 2019 (UTC)

Reminder
Just a reminder to people who can archive tweak nominations - please wait 24 hours until the last vote if it has a consensus. 15:52, February 3, 2019 (UTC)