Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

darktail group vs shadowclan affie
keeping it short bc im about to fall asleep but with darktails rogues, how can the shadowclan cats become darktails group and the already rogues become shadowclan at the same time?? the impression was that the shadowclan cats turned rogue and i dont see how they can exist simultaneously, like a one or the other situation? 01:35, September 2, 2017 (UTC)

I think part of that can be answered in this past discussion. At first, they still called themselves ShadowClan so the affie for that, but received the rogue image/rank due to not being a Clan really even though they kinda were. Then, Darktail's Kin really became Darktail's Group later and that's when we added the new affies to match with the allegiances of Shattered Sky

Yeah, but didn't they still consider themselves ShadowClan? I know they did in Thunder and Shadow, or at least that's what I was getting from the book. I don't know if we should list the original rogues that Darktail brought with him as ShadowClan, but.. I'm not 100% sure what exactly to do, because while they're listed as rogues, but they're still called ShadowClan. Case and point, Juniperclaw (who is part of the rogue group), is also called a ShadowClan warrior on page 10 of Shattered Sky. Also, Spooky, the group should have become the Kin, not the other way around? The group was for the Hawkwing's Journey cats, whereas The Kin is a Shattered Sky-exclusive group.

Chronologically, yes, But Shattered Sky came out after Hawkwing's Journey so we had all of those Darktail's Group allegiances, as we didn't know they were called The Kin Nov. '16 - April '17. That's why I said that we changed/added some to match SS when that came out.

But they were only called The Kin in Shattered Sky. We don't know if Darktail called his group that when they were in Hawkwing's Journey, and it's an assumption to say otherwise. =/

Well yeah, I know. That's why we still have Darktail's Group allegiances for those cats... I never said that they were called the Kin in HJ, because they weren't. What I was saying was that we just added The Kin to those who stick with him in SS, therefore differentiating the two from their earlier HJ listings. There was a publication gap between the two, and so we did physically make the changes for both of these cases in two waves.

the thing is I still don't see how all of them can get all of that at the same time. either the rogues shadowclan affiliation should be removed, or the darktail's group should be removed on everyone barring beenose and co, since it was all of darktail's living cats there. 05:56, September 3, 2017 (UTC)

I think it's best to go with what the allegiance says. That's like, it's job to tell us these things O.o I think we need to also be aware of bias. Characters that were once recognised as ShadowClan warriors or rogues can still be perceived as them, even though they are not (kinda like the Hal's group are called kittypets but are actually not thing).Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  06:17, September 3, 2017 (UTC)

so basically, maybe we should remove the "Darktail's Group" for all of them shown to be part of The Kin in Shattered Sky? Because they were very obviously still part of said group... but for the ones who aren't shown in Shattered Sky (Flame comes to mind), keep them just at "Darktail's Group", and make a note somewhere that "The Kin" was a term only used in Shattered Sky, and it's unknown as to what they were called prior to that?

I disagree with eliminating the Darktail's Group affiliation for cats that later became part of the Kin. I think the Kin is an entirely separate affiliation than Darktail's group and is a bit of a mixture of both rogue and ShadowClan, while the original group was purely rogue. I think that the group became the Kin when ShadowClan and Darktail's Group officially merged at the end of Thunder and Shadow (the name just wasn’t there until SS), and that it's not the same as either group was beforehand. So I think cats like Dawnpelt should get ShadowClan and the Kin (not Darktail's Group) and cats like Rain should get Darktail's Group and the Kin (not ShadowClan). 20:02, September 13, 2017 (UTC)

Have we reached a conclusion on this?

I think the impression is Darktail and followers were originally part of Darktail's Group in Hawkwing's Journey but became "the Kin" in Thunder and Shadow, which really isn't a Clan because I think it's the same case as BloodClan, pretending to be a Clan but not really as no Clan positions and don't follow warrior code.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  09:31, September 22, 2017 (UTC)

Anymore comments?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:01, October 2, 2017 (UTC)

SkyClan ancestors and StarClan
So what should we do with this now that SkyClan's Ancestors are back with the "original" (for lack of better word) StarClan?

I believe that they're not in StarClan altogether, I think they should be current StarClan, but their SkyClan Ancestors would be their past affie as it was its own "StarClan" until they all joined together. C o s m o s n e s s 🐾 #cat lady 03:16, September 14, 2017 (UTC)

I have to agree with that, that's what I was thinking. Seems like the best option, seeing as they were on their own for a while like their own Clan. Maybe temporarily should be put afterwards in parentheses.

But temporarily isn't the right word. They never had any intentions, as far as I know, to go back to the rest of StarClan. Temporary would be used in cases where there is clear intent to revert back to the original circumstance- such as Sorreltail temporarily mentoring Foxleap, while Squirrelflight ventured to the mountains in Outcast.

Ah, okay. That makes a lot more sense.

I agree with Cosmo about giving all the SkyClan ancestors their current affiliation as StarClan, and then putting SkyClan Ancestor as a past affiliation. 19:35, September 14, 2017 (UTC)

^^So do I. 01:13, September 20, 2017 (UTC)

^ yep.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  09:33, September 22, 2017 (UTC)

Anymore comments?Stealth f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:02, October 2, 2017 (UTC)

Grammar
Hi guys, I wanted to bring something up about the grammar on Warriors Wiki. Let us just say that it is incorrect. There are a lot of grammar issues there is one huge one but I will not mention it because I will be eaten alive , but the main issue is the categories. First, we have a category that is Main Characters. However, characters should not be capitalized, seeing that it is a proper noun. On that topic, we have categories like Thunder Rising characters, which, if following the same rule we used for Main Characters, should be Thunder Rising Characters. But both are incorrect, so it should stay to a lower capitalized character.

Also, there is an issue with the plural / singular categories. For example, we have one that is "Males", and we also have another one that is "Leader". If we follow the both roles we should use males and leaders or male and leader. We cannot be so inconsistent. Now, I know that moving these categories may be a lot of work so I believe that a user with a wiki bot who is coded to do all of these things, Xd1358, will be willing to help. He has even said to me that he will help, the only issue is we need to give him bot flags. So if we can agree to change these, and also agree to let this user help (Which I adamantly vouch for, I do not think we can create a bot on our own, considering the amount of testing / code / I cannot find anyone else who is willing to do it). May I have thoughts on this? 14:12, September 15, 2017 (UTC)

Erm, excuse me. I meant it is not a proper noun. 14:14, September 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do have a bot that I use mainly on Wookieepedia. Recategorizing is really simple with a bot and I don't foresee any problems. However, due to the large volume of pages affected, a bot flag for EcksBot would probably be necessary to avoid it from running into rate limits and hiding bot edits from the Recent changes page. 1358  <sup style="color:#336600;">(Talk)  14:16, September 15, 2017 (UTC)

I would also like to point out a few things wrong with the grammar on the wiki. We are an encyclopedia, therefore we should be using formal and professional text. In professional text, per several grammar handbooks, we should not be using contractions. Contractions are not used in formal writing, rather semi-formal and informal. Also, "alright" is an incorrect spelling - in formal text, it is "all right". Also, we have several, excessive commas that break the flow of the sentences. There are no need for commas if the clause has no subject. Alongside our category chances, and some of our capitalization errors, these are a few issues I see that we should be fixed. Now, I realize we are not all going to be happy about the contraction issue, but if we want to have a professional wiki, we need to make sure our articles reflect it. 18:00, September 16, 2017 (UTC)

It's good with me, and I'm glad Ecks is willing to help, but my question is how is he supposed to get the bot flags, when none of us have 'crat rights? Perhaps we could ask Wikia for help on this matter??? Considering I'd say we need you and I to have those rights anyways, Icy... Any idea how long this would take? I wouldn't say that long, since Wookieepedia is a hell of a lot larger than we are.

We really do need another 'crat (or two) here, as I can recall a specific staff inquiry that was ended in April, but nothing has been done about the rights and it's mid-September? Nothing against our current 'crat personally, but we do need another since their past 50 edits range back to 2013. I'd imagine Wikia would be willing to help on something like this pretty quick. It could probably be solved directly w/ them, but they do have the adopt a wiki process in which admins cat get b-crat rights that way with community support so either way.

I have been trying to do that, Spooky. We do have an adopt a wiki process but I do not remember why we could not do it, I remember disagreeing because Kitsu was still active and is able to be contacted. However, I have attempted to contact her and yet I have not received a reply. Jayce and I are still figuring out what to do, but right now, we need to focus on this issue. I believe I can get ecks' bot to get rights if I just email wikia, but right now, we will figure that out. 18:46, September 17, 2017 (UTC)

I can't really give you an answer on the exact time it will take, but the bot software is very fast (15+ edits a minute) and you don't have that many categories and even a smaller share of those are misnamed. I don't anticipate this taking more than an hour or two and it shouldn't cause any disruption elsewhere on the wiki. And yes, admins can indeed request bot flags through Special:Contact. 1358 <sup style="color:#336600;">(Talk)  10:54, September 20, 2017 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea. I also like this 'Bot' way of doing this. Sounds like AI's are going to take over the wiki O.o<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  09:36, September 22, 2017 (UTC)

The bot is currently fixing all of the categories, we should all give our thanks to ecks, because without him and his bot this would not be possible so he deserves all our thanks since he is helping us fix things. Also, can I get some comments on my grammar issue? I know it will be a lot of work to change conjuctions and words, but I would really like to see everyone's opinion. 20:22, September 23, 2017 (UTC)

no, I don't think we need to edit the conjuctions and whatever. might be an encylopedia but things like "it's" is fine, saying "it is" all the time gets tiresome to read and type, and frankly just makes it sounds too boring and too formal. it's just a small encylopedia about a cat series. as long as we aren't using things like "gonna", then who cares about some here and there? 20:46, September 23, 2017 (UTC)

Except the argument given to me several times, not just me but a lot of arguments on the wiki, was, "we are a professional wiki." A professional wiki has professional text, therefore we should not be using any conjunctions. Of course, I do understand that if you want to keep them, go ahead, and I am not forcing anyone to do anything, I just thought it would be reasonable to point this out. 23:01, September 23, 2017 (UTC)

It looks like things are already being changed I think? But I'll add my opinion anyway. I have to agree with David, not because typing it out is any hard work, but because seeing it over and over again would get to be a bit dull.

I understand that, but a "bit dull" is very different from grammatically correct, and professional text is the default state, alongide credibility, because this is not a blog we are running. Encyclopedic writing is expected to follow basic rules of formal writing, and even putting aside rules imported from Wikipedia. Contractions are only for informal/non-academic use. If you can tell me that this is not an encyclopedia, or we would like to appear as one, or would like to agree that it is not, I take back my argument. However, if we truly are one, per several sources (I understand the second one is about business, but also take a look at the words used and the sections underneath it) prove that in both formal and professional writing, contractions should not be used. 23:31, September 23, 2017 (UTC)

Eh, you got me there. I think we should go ahead and let the Bot cover all this.

Well I mean. There are contractions used in the series itself, so... I can't say I agree. I really don't see the problem with most contractions, and am not seeing how it takes away too much formality from articles. I agree with skt - as long as we aren't using 'gonna' and 'ain't' every other sentence, I think it's okay.

Well the thing is, it does not matter if it is used in the series. That is like saying we should not be writing profesionally because whatever we are basing it off is not professional. My issue is that we are an encyclopedia, and we should treat it as such. 00:16, September 24, 2017 (UTC)

Sorry I'm coming back again. Anyways the manual wikipedia style is avoiding contractions in encyclopedic/professional writing is a fundamental rule of style shared by APA, AP, IEEE, and other professional writing guides, so I believe we should follow that. 03:46, September 24, 2017 (UTC)

i'm js that we're not official anything, just a fansite that's a little more professional than most wikis, (considering most of those die anyway) but ultimately if it gets implemented i won't complain as long as we aren't forced to do it, similar to american english vs the other english variations. those just get changed by someone else along thr way eventually. 15:26, September 24, 2017 (UTC)

Why would we force people? I say just type how you normally do (I see you and Stealth do it), and someone else will come along and change it, as usual.

"Queen"
I was digging through Tigerheart's Shadow, and I found a bit of interesting information. They use the term "queen" for pregnant she-cats. Given they outright call pregnant she-cats queens on page 183, it's pretty obvious this isn't just a Clan term anymore? Should we start re-adding this to other articles as well, or...? Because I'm not sure who decided that "queen" is a Clan term only, but I'm starting to think that's wrong...

I think that we could add it for the guardian cats, but I personally wouldn't go as far to add it to other articles, imo, unless specified. Queen takes a two meanings in the series, as I know Bluestar was called a queen in Into the Wild when she definitely didn't have kits, and then the human definition of "queen" in relation to a cat is an unaltered female. The guardian cats might get that rank, because they're a society with rules and customs of their own, I'm not sure other cats like normal loners and rogues would qualify.

I see your point, but wouldn't it make sense to apply it to pregnant she-cats in general? That seems to be what they do in the series. The definition of a queen in the Warriors series is "she-cats expecting or nursing kits". I'm not sure why they called Bluestar that in Into the Wild, because the series clearly has what it should be. It would also an extra cite for cats who have the queen image in their gallery (ie; Snowy), but don't have a cite for it at first glance (we only know by checking the family sections and stuff like that).

One of the author's mentioned somewhere that the term queen originally meant any she-cat, so Bluestar and Spottedleaf are mistakes. I do agree that queen should apply to all nursing/pregnant she-cats. I already thought this was in place O.o shows how little I pay attention.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  09:38, September 22, 2017 (UTC)

I think we should think a little bit more before adding it to the Guardian cats, let alone every cat that's been pregnant. But if anything, just adding it to the Guardian cats would make some sense.

why tho? every cat thats been pregnant regardless of being a clan cat or not has been called a queen, going from memory. into the wild excluded, because they obviously dropped that idea. we should add it. 23:03, September 23, 2017 (UTC)

Anymore comments?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:54, October 2, 2017 (UTC)

Samples for unreleased books
I talked to a couple admins about this briefly, so I know their opinions on this but I wanted to bring it up as a formal discussion. When a new sample for an unrealeased book is released, I was thinking we could add the genders and descriptions of a cat, not just their name. I know we've done it the other way for ages, but things change. I just wanted to gather an opinion on this before an official vote.

I have no issues with it, but I should make it clear that since they're previews, the information should be taken with a grain of salt, as things can change between a preview and a book's release. (last-minute editor things, the preview being from an earlier version of the story, ect) If we find contradictions, an official release of a book/a kindle edition will always take priority over a preview. I mean, we already have people who try and add the descriptions. I mean, the chararts and stuff (for people who are bound to ask about it) would still be held by the "midnight on the wiki clock" rule that we have....but descriptions have never hurt anyone.

Sure why not. It would certainly cut down on all those people who hop on pre-book release to try and add things :P

@Jayce, yeah. And other little things like the Shattered Ice thing from Tallstar's Revenge. But I think descriptions/Clans have generally been the same as they were in the sample.

Yeah since their name is "released", I don't see why not on adding all the information it gives on other stuff too. We just need to make sure we are clear on chararts, cites, and all that.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  09:42, September 22, 2017 (UTC)

Anymore comments?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:02, October 2, 2017 (UTC)

Are we going to have a formal vote on this one? Because this is a pretty big change, and given that there are still quite a few active members that have yet to comment on this... I'd say a vote would be the only way to pass this properly? If it were minor things, sure, but this technically involves the spoiler policy, meaning that would have to be updated as well.

I think a formal vote would be for the best.

Boots ~ Silver Nomination
i dont think anyone else nominated this since mine was declined? if so just decline this <span style="">07:47, 10/02/2017

Can you detail the history some more? Flesh out as much as possible. Also, his name is used a lot and some of it needs to be replaced with 'he', or 'the guardian cat' or 'cat' or stuff like that me explaining when about to fall over from exhaustion O.o <font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  09:31, October 2, 2017 (UTC)

Still working?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  08:08, October 6, 2017 (UTC)

Declined due to lack of work.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:20, October 8, 2017 (UTC)

I'm just gonna butt in here and ask why exactly this was declined? I could understand if it was a week, sure, but according to my clock, it's barely been six days? Shouldn't Broken get the extra day to work on it? Because I see nothing in the guidelines that says anything about a timeframe, and a week is usually standard.

Oh I think I have miscount. Nevermind, tomorrow will be the cut-off point. Sorry Broken!<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  08:55, October 8, 2017 (UTC)

its fine. blame me. i did update the article after you gave critique, Stealth, i just didn't say 'fixed' or etc. after that. my bad. <span style="">14:19, 10/08/2017

Then I actually think we're okay to CBV this, then? I'm glad I said something.

So ... comments before vote, I guess? 18:29, October 8, 2017 (UTC)

Growler ~ Silver Nomination
<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:06, October 2, 2017 (UTC)

CBV?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:25, October 7, 2017 (UTC)

Sunkit (SC) ~ Silver Nomination
Cutie.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  06:03, October 5, 2017 (UTC)

CBV?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  05:07, October 10, 2017 (UTC)

Pumpkin ~ Silver Nomination
Credits to who worked on it before me. I just added detail to the history and quotes.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  06:14, October 5, 2017 (UTC)

CBV?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  05:07, October 10, 2017 (UTC)