Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Hello PCA
It's nice to see the project open again. Now, as a starting thing, the discussion for leader/deputy is here and I invite you all to comment on it. As for the talk page, I'd like to bring a few other things to light.
 * For those who said we didn't need a no-rank blank, we have confirmation from Kate that the ancient Tribe cats did not have ranks once they moved to the mountains. They have apparently discontinued using the rank of sharpclaw, so a no-rank blank would be necessary, as they have no rank.
 * Some revisions on the guidelines to make them less picky and snippy and more artist-friendly. While I realize the project is about art, you also have to keep in mind that not everyone is perfect, and the elitist behavior of the project is what shut it down to begin with... we don't need a repeat of that, now do we?
 * Some other qualifications to becoming a lead would also be a good idea. While this is in no way, shape, or form, a bash against previous leaders, deputies, or senior warriors of this project, I honestly believe someone who can only art should not be a project lead. Keep in mind their ability to lead, comment on discussions, fairness, ect.
 * I know Hawkmask expressed an interest in redoing some of the tutorials, and I invite her to bring her ideas to the talk page so we can discuss it more.

For now, I added everyone who was a warrior, senior warrior, deputy, or leader in as a warrior, and we'll keep going from there once we get a leader/deputy sorted out. I don't think we should be posting art until we get at least the leader and deputy thing sorted, but I'd have no complaints to people reserving images. Remember, if you had it before, that doesn't mean it's automatically yours again. First come, first serve.

I know I'm missing tons of stuff, but I'm typing this up as I can think of it, so if you've got something, please please fire away.

On the images, are we still allowed one new image and one redo, for the approval page (not tweaks), like before it closed? Since there are /tonnes/ of images... 17:05, May 6, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, good question. I know I have no problems with the reservations, but if we have no current leads elected, then there's no real way to CBA/approve/decline those images. I think reserving them is fine (but remember my word is not final), but you'd probably have to wait to post them until we at least get a leader and deputy. I mean, I kinda want things to run how they did before, just with a better atmosphere and stuff.

Definitely. No art should be reserved until a good basis of leads are decided by the project - and of course, that includes community consent. I believe that the article we have on leader and deputy should stay up for a while until a good amount of people are nominated, and then the vote follows it. 21:20, May 6, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, so as you said I did in fact request to give the approval page a make-over. I'd like to ask all of the project members about which tutorials they think need some redoing/updating. We could have some kind of forum/vote/deciding-page-thingy to help us figure out which ones need to be updated. 21:33 Tue May 6

I think that mottled and flecked could use with an update 22:33, May 6, 2014 (UTC)

I'll start a new discussion about the apprentice tutorials. --0:36 Wed May 7

Apprentice Tutorials Makeover
So as most of you should know, since Snowed of Lightning mentioned it above, that I will help out with the apprentice tutorials' update. I want to start ASAP, and I want to know from you guys which ones need updating. We aren't claiming which oines to do yet, but Snowed of Lightning says she wants to redo the black cat tutorial.

Which tutorials do you think need updating? 0:41 Wed May 7

Mottled and flecked. 07:03, May 7, 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind a tweak to the tortoiseshell and dual-colored ones to make them a little more natural, so to say. (the ones Iceheart and Loonie did) The tortie one only shows pale torties, I think, and the dual colored one should have a bit more variety. I will say this, though. No one needs to touch Bloo's marbled tabby one- it's perfect in every way, shape, and form. 8DD

Yes Snowed of Lightning. That one is fine too. I agree with both of you. 20:17 Wed May 7

The eye and shading charts need updating. And possibly the adding stripes tweak tutorial... Idk. 20:55, 05/7/2014

We should add more diversity in tutorials, like having some be using queen blanks, deputy blanks, leader blanks, kit blanks, etc. Notquiterocketwildbokan (talk) 21:17, May 7, 2014 (UTC)

Oooh, yes, that's a fantastic idea. I find it awkward to try and tabby on a blank that isn't shown in a tutorial because that's how I learned the way the tabby stripes should go. I'm sure others feel the same, so the project and all the users would benefit from the use of more than just the warrior blank (which is the most commonly used blank) for the tutorials. 22:50, 05/7/2014

Yes, fabulous. I was thinking that the shading placement image needs updating as well, and the color chart too; it could have a few more colors (if there are any). 2:02 Fri May 9

See, that's the thing with the color chart. I don't think it's a good idea to take that for perfect, since the colors are only a basic example of what you could use. It's the same with the ear pink. It should really only be used as a guide for what color area you should start with if you're new...but as this project has shown, there are a lot of different colors and shades that you could use. I'd be all for updating the shading placement to show different styles too. ^^ If someone has the time I'd say two styles for each blank but that would be madness and I don't expect anyone to sit around and do that. \

I've got time. I might even have time for the frigging eyes DX I already started 3 days ago I'm not even half way done cause I don't have the patience. 23:20 Fri May 9

I think that under each section, say, dual-coloured, we should have multiple tutorials by different users. I don't think that unless they are misleading, tutorials shouldn't be replaced but kept in respect to the artists. I like Icehearts, and I don't want to see them replaced. With different tutorials under each section, then users can select from a variety of diverse styles and choose which one fits them best instead of just looking at one tutorial.

White and black (individual white cats and black cats I mean) is also misleading. They imply that you're not allowed to use pure white or a really really dark gray, when in fact that is quite the opposite. While it's possible (and I've done it for fun), I believe having tutorials that show using pure white and darker gray should be an option- someone once told me that using pure white was forbidden, and that's completely and totally misleading. =P

I agree with you all. So, now, shall we start with the tutorial's make-over? I can start with the 'tabbers' coding on the page. Then, I can place the tutorials according to their level of difficulty (Charart basics, like shading styles, eye placement, etc, then to patterns, like tabby and mottled/flecked, etc, and then tweaking, etc.). Sound like a plan? 16:50 Mon May 19

It's more than okay with me, if you want to start with some of the basics, Hawk. What say you, PCA? Should we get started on this?

Sounds good to me. Might as well get this all done sooner so we can give newer users a more updated look at how us dorks over at PCA art. love you all you awesome nerds  20:33, 05/20/2014

Okay, the tutorials have been put into tabbers. What do y'all think? I guess now we can start updating/making tutorials. So I was thinking to add:
 * Texture Tutorial
 * Smudged Shading Style Tutorial
 * Torbie Tutorial

I know that Snowed of Lightning wants to redo/update the black cat tutorial, and I'd like to make a texture tutorial as well as update the eye placement and shading placement. I can also take care of the smudge-shading tutorial. So pretty much I just want to hog everything for myself mwahahaha No jk jk jk Is everyone okay with this? 21:29 Tue May 20

I defiantly agree with adding texture and torbies; sounds great to me! 13:00, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

I'd also like to see tutorials for how to use Pixlr, Gimp, paint.NET, and everything else that is usually used. I think it'd be helpful. 13:04, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

Oooh, having ones per program, or at least ones teaching the basics, would be something I'd be okay with. Although I can't help, since I use Photoshop, it's still a really good thing to consider. I feel bad when I can't help people who come and ask me, since I'm literally so inexperienced with those, especially Paint.NET and Pixlr.

Suggestion for a new requirement to become a SW
So I was thinking (I've actually had this idea for quite a while but whatever) and I think a new requirement should be added to become a sw. I think that in order to become a SW you have to nominate at least one article and it must pass in PW, PR, PB, or PC. This way users will have to help the other projects to advance in PCA and SW nominations won't be as much about pretty art. I think it would help, and when ou think about it it isn't hard at all to get a nomination in a project. x3 21:01, May 10, 2014 (UTC)

That's acutally a really good idea. Didn't this project close because of other projects being ignored? If we do this, then that means that the other projects would benifit, too. Notquiterocketwildbokan (talk) 21:03, May 10, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it did. ^ I like this idea. Not only would they be participating in other projects, they might actually learn to like working on the mainspace articles and become more active members in other projects. I'm all for this- the main focus is not PCA, but it does have fun parts. Plus, as Duck said, it really isn't very hard to nominate and get them to pass.

I really like this idea. I've gotten a page up to silver and it wasn't hard. Granted it was a very minor character's page, but it wasn't hard at all. Should be an easy task to accomplish for everyone. 21:07, 05/10/2014

I agree, nominating is a piece of cake. This will probably stop the other projects being ignored (compared to the PCA). 16:37, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

Really though, nothing you do can get people to work in other projects or the mainspace if they really don't interest. I don't exactly support the idea tbh, because that requirement has nothing to do with being a PCA lead. If you want the requirements to get harder, then they should be more relevant to PCA. There were many people who were PCA leads without having anything to do with other projects, because they feel that their skills don't lie with those projects. But you can't deny them a lead position if they really deserve it for that reason. Scarlet, for an example mainly edited PCA, and would you say that she didn't deserve her spot because her skills lay here, or that she didn't contribute. Same with a lot of other people that I could name before. Personally, there are other methods of trying to raise the activity in other projects. Plus, guys, PCA is still contributing.

I have to agree with Stoner. PCA leads are picked because of their performance in PCA not elsewhere on the wiki. 10:29 Fri May 16 2014

Wasn't the entire reason we closed PCA in the first place to shift the focus to other projects? While the leads are picked because of the performance in PCA, it would still be nice to see them edit elsewhere every once in a while. While we can't deny them a lead spot because they don't edit in other projects, it would still be nice to see them edit elsewhere. But, it's not for everyone, as stated before. Would membership in another project be a better qualification instead of a nomination having successfully passed? You don't have to nominate- I see people who comment on discussions in other projects that are PCA users, but they'd rather not nominate. Paleh was a prime example of that ( I'm not calling you out, Paleh, I swear, you were just the name I could think of off the top of my head and you were a project lead at one point too ). While she didn't nominate, she was still active in other projects and helping them in whatever ways she could.

I think membership is too easy, you can be a member of a project and never contribute I think that it should be a nomination or an active membership, meaning they comment on stuff and stuff like that. 18:25, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

Re-joining
Hey, I was a member of PCA a loooong time ago, but because I became inactive, I got removed. Can I join again, please? Even though I'm probably a bit rusty at making these? Pikachushinx the power of the past 10:58, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Hey, Shinx! Welcome back, dear~ What rank were you when you left??? I honestly can't remember. o.o I can add you back, but I know you got images approved so I can't remember if you were an apprentice or a warrior. ;-;

I was an apprentice. I only got two images approved (Cinderfur's apprentice and Scorchwind's warrior), so I never got to warrior. Pikachushinx the power of the past 13:45, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, thanks! You'll be a warrior before too long. =) Now I can add you in properly.

Thank you! I'll go reserve something to make, then. Pikachushinx the power of the past 13:54, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

No-Rank Blank
Okay, Kate says on her blog, that the ancient cats, do not have ranks. Therefore, I'd like to bring back the idea of using a no-rank blank for these, and the characters we have descriptions for, but no rank. As-in, a true no-rank blank. This would also be good for other characters as well, I'd think- maybe Brightspirit and the others, since it's mentioned they were alive at one point in time. We also have some characters from River's group that would fall under needing this as well... Basically, for people that say we don't need the rank, we actually have a canon purpose that would require, so to say, a blank. Basically for people that can't load Kate's blog, here's what was said:
 * Beebs
 * Oh, Kate, I’ve been wondering this for a while, and I wonder if you know anything about this. In The Sun Trail, are the cats that aren’t elders, queens, kits, or Stoneteller sharpclaws? And Hawk Swoop, Falling Feather, and Jackdaw’s Cry being softpaws, since they’re called “young”? I’d be thankful if you know anything of the Tribe cats’ ranks at all, since it’s never mentioned in the main story.


 * Kate
 * The Tribe didn’t have ranks. The younger cats are just considered softpaws until they have more experience. It’s not as formalised as with the Clans.

So, yeah. Kate's declared it so. I'd also think this would apply to Gray Wing, Clear Sky, Turtle Tail, ect. Those cats who left, who used to be members of the rankless group. So, now we have a reason- so you can't say it's still not needed when it's explicitly said that these cats have no ranks.

Sounds great - so, is there gonna be a new blank? 14:30, May 30, 2014 (UTC)