Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Adding Ages to Character Charts?
Hey everyone~ I'm here to do what I do: make suggestions.

I'm of the opinion that, for characters we have this information on anyway, we should include ages on charcats. (For dead cats, it'd be the age they died at.)

In example, on Firestar's chart it'd say that he is approximately 7 years of age.

We'd only do this for characters we know the ages of, without guessing at it, and doing this would allow us to provide even more information on characters than we already do. Not to mention, with out handy Events Timeline, it'd be a snap.

Comments? 00:15, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

I love this idea Shelly! But of course, only some cats will get ages. You have my support. 00:37, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, only some cats: the major characters. I like this idea. 00:38, 25, 02, 2012

I like it! 8D Where would it be added though? Just on the Charcat? I think thatd be the best place. And can we just put unknown for the age, rather than leaving it off? Anons will probably eventually start to ask why there's no ages on some, but I think it'd be fine if it just said unknown. But anyways, great idea. ^^ 00:39, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

^^ Yeah. It'l bring up contributive edits for sure. 00:41, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

I like this too! 8D I agree with Paleh for it to be on the charcat. @Rowan, this isn't about getting edits up, but for improving the articles. 00:44, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

-Shall be the pessimistic one- While this is a good idea, don't you think it'd be a bit odd to add in ages of only a few characters, meanwhile about maybe 65% - 75% of the characters would be missing this information? Only few characters would have this available information, thus I'm not convinced of making it a part of a characters article.

There's also the bit about years. Since all character articles use the terms used within the books, wouldn't it be odd to use a "human term"? An easy substitute is that would be using the term, "moon", however that'd also add a bit more precision to our estimates. And even with the timeline, I feel like we'd still be guessing at the age of a particular cat.

Anyways, my little outtake on this idea. Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea, but I don't think we should carry out given the pros and cons presented currently. 03:42, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I understand your concerns, and I'll carefully debunk them in order:

1: How many of our character articles ever have everything there may be to have on them? Some have post-death residence, some don't, all depending on whether or not we actually know where they ended up when they died. This is the same exact concept. Nothing different. Making it a part of the character articles will allow us to provide all of the information we have on characters, which is our job.

2: Sure, we can go with moons if you're concerned about terminology. But I think approx. years or even approx. seasons would work as well. Not everything we do on here has to follow Clan vernacular.

3: Our timeline has the information down as best as we know it, which is the best that the books provide, which is as accurate as it's going to get. We know that Firestar is 7, nearly 8. Dovewing and Ivypool are both 1, nearly 2. When Lionheart died, he was approximately 5.

I still think that this is a good idea, in short. 04:13, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

Strange. I suggested this months ago and it got shot down :S  04:37, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

I refuse to be shot down. ಠ益ಠ 04:38, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

XD We all love Shelly's argument mode. But, this is a great idea. In my opinion, this could actually really improve the articles. And maybe, when they find out all these ages, people will stop tormenting Firestar's age xD 09:31, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, Shelly. Dat face. Both Shelly and Atelda have good points. If we decide to go through with this it would be a terrific addition to character pages. 01:31, February 26, 2012 (UTC)

Shelly's points have proven that this is still in the running for going in the charcats. I agree still. 01:35, 03, 03, 2012

I agree with this idea. 14:56, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

So shall this go to a vote or can we just do it? 01:48, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

It's a simple matter to resolve, but shall the ages be in moons or year? Also, we have a citation (how to cite it will be a different matter if decided on)? Otherwise, we need only to add it to the template and add it to the characters. 01:57, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think moons, with years in parenthesis. Or seasons would work better, even... And yeah, citations are important. Adding it to the templates should be easy, too. 02:02, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

So, for citations, would we just cite the timeline or what? 15:33, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

I guess that we should cite the timeline... 15:49, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Well we could another version of the R template, and have it cite the book and page number of it saying how old a character is in comparison to another or something (basically, whatever we use to cite them on the timeline), then say "See Timeline for explanation" and link the timeline or something. I dun know, just a thought. 21:44, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry about the delay since it took me some time to try and not make a mistake, but 'Teldy got the age to work out on the charcat template. So, Moons are the time unit we'll put it in with years in parenthesis. If a cat is dead we just put (at death) after their age, plus a cite (Age: 28 seasons [cite] (at death [cite])). Soo yeah, sound good? 17:23, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

As an example, I've added the age to Firestar's template. Go check it out to see how it looks. 17:32, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

I don't agree with this. The two parenthesis next to each other looks messy. I was talking to Paleh and she said we should do it like "## moons (# years)[cite] at death[cite]" and get rid of the parenthesis around "at death". Personally, I think two cites is kind of unnecessary, but I kept getting shot down, so whatever. 21:16, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Yes to the first idea in my opinion. Though I believe that having a cite for their birth/the first mention of their age along with their death is best, as it completely proves their age from start to finish. 22:20, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I can live with that. Another thing: the age in years. I think we should just put it in words (five) and leave out the .5 or whatever. I was born in January 1996, and you don't see me running around saying I'm 16.3 years. Putting it in words looks a whole lot better. 22:27, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

No, I think that putting a solid number with a decimal is best, personally. Just because it's the most precise way to do it. These are articles, they don't have to be written like we're talking to someone. If they're 5.5 years, it'd be false to just say that they're five. Also please remember to put "Approx." before every age. Because that's all we can do, even if we saw the cat born. Unless we witnessed every day of their life, all we can do is approximate. And do not cite the events timeline as proof of age. We cannot cite ourselves, even if there are cites on that timeline. It's like saying "this is true because I say it's true." 22:31, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

...Okay, I can live with that too. But doing things like .25 years for a cat that's three moons old just doesn't work for me. I'd rather put 3 months in the parenthesis, or nothing. Putting .25 years is really redundant. I understand putting years for cats older than one year so you don't have to divide the number of moons by twelve, but for less than a year it shouldn't be put. I want more people than Shelly to comment on this since she enjoys shooting me down oh-so-much. 23:23, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

I know you don't want me to comment, but I'm doing it anyway.

It's putting months that's redundant. Moons and months mean the exact same thing. We should be consistent and put in .25 years instead of 3 months. 23:29, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to have to agree with Loonie on this one. Not everyone knows that a moon is equivalent to a month. 23:37, 22, 04, 2012 23:37, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

You know, I may be going out on a limb here, but I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume that anyone that has read a single book in this series has picked up on that bit of vernacular. And it's not really hard to figure out that a moon = a month since our months are also based on lunar cycles. 00:56, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

Then there shouldn't be anything at all. I fail at explaining things... But putting, in decimals, how many years a cat is if it's less than one seems extremely redundant. 01:12, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

I agree that putting months would be silly, as we put those anyways in the moons, simply by a different name. However I also don't agree with putting a decimal of a year if it's less than a year. For cats that have died or weren't one year by the time the book ended, I think we should just get rid of those parenthesis all together. Only use them on cats older than 1 year. 12:35, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

Suggestion
I figured making a new section rather than just commenting would get this a bit more attention.....

Anyways, due to the false cite problem that was recently discovered, I've been trying to think of a way to show that the page's cites have been verified. I was thinking maybe we could put a template of some sort at the top of the pages saying "This page's references are of questionable authenticity" and that only reliable members (maybe such as members of the project?) could remove it. That way we know that the pages are checked. Or maybe we could make a new template that has the cite in it, but also shows that it's questionable whether it's a real cite or not. I don't know, I just think we should have something so we have a way of knowing when the references have been checked (or haven't) on some pages. Those are just some of the ideas I came up with. Feel free to shoot them down. 22:15, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

I acctually like this, becuase it gives an option for people to do even if they don't own the book and question the accuracy and veracity of an article. 22:39, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Wow. You know it's a good idea if Kitsu supports it. xDDDD

I like it too. It would be a nice addition to the page, and we'd be able to narrow down those references that are false, most of them added in by Wikia Contributors. It's actually quite annoying, because most of the time, they look like good edits, when in fact they're not. Excellent idea, Paleh. 05:56, February 28, 2012 (UTC)

This sounds good, all though it would be a bit confusing- expecially for newer users, it sounds like it could work. As Kit said, it gives users the option to put the reference up, even if they're not 100% sure it's factual. Good find Paleh. 09:50, 28, 02, 2012

This does sound like a good idea to me. I agree completely. 21:24 February 28, 2012 (UTC)

Wonderful idea, Paleh, I agree with this. 02:40, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

I like it. It would work well, looking at the all the links in the articles, and it would provide something for us who are looking for something to do on that spare weekend. I'd say also having a category for it, to point out all articles that would need work. I'll fiddle around with a box later, if more people agree, when I'm less tired and it's not 10:30. xD 03:27, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Although, we could make a page, with all the articles that haven't been looked over. 00:34 Thu Mar 1

Woah Kit actually supported one of my ideas. o.o Thanks guys. And Sweet, that'd work to a certain extent, but what stops more false cites being added? If we made a page it'd have to be constantly updated everytime a cite is added, unless the person who sees it first has the book to check. 15:31, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

If we could get a list of people who are participating in the "cite" thing, maybe we could assign people to articles, and have them check the cites maybe, every 2 weeks? There are a lot of character articles, but if a lot of people participate, I think it'd work. 13:20 Sat Mar 3

I agree with Sweet ^^ Maybe we could add a category of users participating and a category for the pages that need citation checks...or whatever we're calling them =P 12:57, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

I feel that a template would be fine, but a category or list of people participating would be unnecessary I feel. 15:33, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Wonderful idea! I feel this would really help out in making sure pages are 100% factual. 21:59, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Ken and Jean - Separate Them?
This article is the only character article that has planned status. I want to see if I can change that. :)

Before I start digging in, I want to see if anyone would like to separate them. I personally believe that we should. I know that they're not major characters, but we've made article for cats without names, so I see no reason why each character shouldn't have their own pages. What do you guys think? Leave your thoughts down below and I'll weigh both sides and possibly create a vote accordingly. :) 15:51, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, but didn't we make articles for Sol's Father and Leafstar's Mother simply because they had relevance to their individual plots? With Ken and Jean, the two are only relevant to the plot together, in my opinion. There'd be a lot less to write about them seperately than together, at least in Jean's case. 15:57, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

I always wondered why they weren't separate. I think they should be, because they are different characters. Their individual roles should still be acknowledged, no matter how small. Look at the allegiances-only cats. They have articles of their own, even though we'll probably never see them do anything important in the books, because they're still characters. 17:49, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

I agree, they are seperate characters, and should be treated as such. 21:57, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

I think they should be separate characters as well. We do the same for other minor characters, instead of grouping them together. Mistkit and Nightkit, for example, as well as Leafstar's Mother and Sol's Father. Just because they're human characters doesn't really mean much of anything...and since the page is only "started" status, we wouldn't have to worry about changing any of the gradings.

Senior warriors and citing ranks
Wow I completely forgot to bring this up. xD Anyways, so I was discussing with Teldy about this a bit, and she said to bring up an actual discussion about it. I was editing a bit the other day and noticed a couple of characters who were in the senior warrior category, though I have no memory of them ever being mentioned. As it's a category, I can't add a cite tag to it, and even if I could, nobody could cite it to prove they are one. So I was thinking perhaps we could list them in the charcats like any other rank, and cite where it specifically says they're a senior warrior. But then we also couldn't cite those and not the other ranks, as it'd be inconsistent. So maybe we should just cite all ranks in the charcat? It'd be helpful with more than just the senior warriors too, for instance, characters like Pad, who's in the manga only which I know a lot of people have never read, is listed as a Loner, Kittypet, and Kit. However he's only a kit, and he was only in one book. So how do we know it's real unless you can read the book yourself? Am I rambling?

Anyways, so what do you guys think? Should we add the Senior Warrior rank to the charcat, and/or cite ranks? 08:54, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

I think it might be hard to cite where a character is mentioned as a SW, but it wouldn't be impossible to find. I'm not against the idea. 15:44, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

I also think it'd be a good idea to cite the other ranks (like kit, elder, etc.). 15:50, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it would be hard to find the cites, but in a way, that's kinda the point. So few SWs are mentioned in the series, and yet there's so many in the category. If it's hard to cite, a lot may be taken out due to lack of cite, which is the point. 00:45, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

That's true. I agree with this idea. 13:11, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

I agree, Paleh. I don't remember some of the cats in that category being called SWs... 01:15, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I agree we should cite the ranks. However, I don't know about adding the SW. In fact, I might put up an AfD for that category just because it will always remain incomplete. We basically know all of the SWs in ThunderClan since that's where the point of view is coming from. But we have not the faintest clue who's SW in the other Clans. I mean, yes, there's the ones who are older cats than some of the newer ones, but we still don't know for sure if they are SWs. Then there are the middle group where they've been alive a couple of books, yet they're not as old as others, and we really don't know. 01:20, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Hmmmm true, it won't ever be complete, but then most categories won't ever be "complete". We probably won't know every Windclan cat for instance, or every Tribe of Endless Hunting cat. But you're right, the only ones we really know are ThunderClan. I'm not sure it's really needed. I'd support and AfD, but not necessarily cause it won't ever be "complete". 21:42, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

This sounds like a good idea. I have an idea for citing a character being described as a senior warrior. If one cat is newly mentioned as one, cats that are of similar age can have that used as their citation as well. That would make sense, since I'd think age pretty much qualifies a cat for a senior warrior rank. Oh, and yeah, I'm trying to be helpful to other projects now, so hi! :)  21:55, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Ohai Ivy! 8D But it's not always about age. Usually, but not always, so it'd be assuming if we cited a cat as a senior warrior cause a cat a similar age is one. For instance, Thistleclaw and Tigerclaw established themselves as senior warriors fairly young, before Bluestar even, who was older than them. 23:42, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Alive templates
Paleh asked me the question of, "why do we have just alive templates and not status templates?" This meaning that why do we change the status of every character to deceased on every page when we can merely edit the "alive template" (possibly a name change should occur to these templates if this goes through). If we have all the templates on all the pages, it wouldn't take more than one edit to change the status of a character from alive to deceased. Paleclaw and I could not come up with a valid reason for why the templates are only for characters who are alive.

There is the case where a character has one appearance and then we hear nothing from them again so we put, "Status Unknown". However, is this truly a valid reason to spend 100+ edits on just editing the status when a simple solution would be changing the alive templates to incorporate deceased characters too?

So as a propsal, I think for the next arc, Dawn of the Clans, we should make the alive templates just status templates. We can do that with the current arcs that were released if we decide on that as well. 01:22, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Well you already posted all I had to say on it really, however I do suggest that we go back and change all the old alive templates too, as statuses on them can change through the erin hunter chats, facebook, blogs, etc. and therefore it'd be easiest to just have them all on the templates. 01:27, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

This seems like a good idea...I agree with it. 8D 22:21, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea to me. Some users only edit just to change that, and honestly, I thin it's sort of uncontributive. Also, on some articles, since they're never touched, they don't get changed half the time.

Makes sense. 15:37, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

I think it would make much more sense to actually do it with one template, instead of making hundreds of Status template subpages. Do correct me if I'm wrong, since I hadn't followed the original discussion about the Alive templates properly so I may have misunderstood something, but say has  on it. So does. And probably (I haven't checked the template before posting this, so I might be a little wrong) has "Deceased, Confirmed StarClan member" I would say it would make better sense to use a switch on, like this:

Then for Bluestar we'd have to type, which would output "Deceased, Confirmed StarClan member" and so on, for all the characters.

Regards,

why do we change the status of every character to deceased on every page when we can merely edit the "alive template" <<< I would like to ask the same question.

The "Alive" templates are used to eliminate the need of editing ANY character page when a character's status changes. An Alive/character template may contain ANY of the following:
 * Living as of (an older book)
 * Deceased, [StarClan / DF / Unknown residence]
 * Status Unknown
 * Status Unknown

This was the original idea behind the template... if you are still changing hundreds of character pages, then they have no use...

Kind regards, 17:33, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm good point lightning. It'd be easier that way. *nods* I support. 04:01, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

The coding gods have saved us from pointless editing. xD

It's a lot easier that way, from what I'm gathering with the above coding. I'll go along with this as well.

I agree with this and support. 04:22, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Considering Helix doesn't have the time and neither do I (homework in nine different subjects o.o), you people will have to take the trouble.

I can do it. 23:36, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Kay so I made an example template here, and how to use it here. A problem Teldy brought up with this was that it's a lot of characters to list on one template and could get very disorganized, and characters could end up being added more than once by accident, causing a template loop, so I thought we could maybe have them listed by name, then have Letterhere to break up the letters. It'll be easier to check if a character's there, and no look quite so disorganized. What do you guys think? 23:43, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, goodness, yes. Template loops are evil, and that's a good idea to help prevent that. Of course, there's probably going to be a few that have been missed/duplicated, but, we won't know that until we try, now will we? That's what a sandbox is for.

So, this is supposed to just kill the hundreds of templates we already have on character articles, right? At least, that's what I'm getting out of this? (brain's not working)

Yup. :) And I'm currently going through each character one by one in the character category and adding those that need status templates in attempt to make sure there's none of those dupes or missing ones.

On a side note, Lightning informed me that noincluude tags don't work in functions, so it'd be instead.

And. It. Is. DONE! 8D Template:Status~ Tada! ^^ 22:47, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Cloudy Sun ~ Silver Nomination
My first. 8D Anyway, added more in Long Shadows and expanded Sign of the Moon. I could add some narrator quotes, but the two that are up now are all she says. Pretty minor character in SotM, so not much... Comments? 21:24, 04 15, 2012

There's nothing else you can add for Sign of the Moon to make it flow a little better? That first sentence seems a little...iffy. Perhaps describe what was going on at the time? Long Shadows is excellent.

Done. 09:09, 04 18, 2012

CBV? 16:23 Mon May 7

Vote is up! 22:53 Tue May 8

Oscar ~ Silver Nomination
I added a Main Quote and two other ones. Comments? 13:13, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Firestar's Quest could probably be expanded some more. 16:52, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

I feel the last two paragraphs of Firestar's Quest could be reworded some  19:21, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Detail the second paragraph, also. Perhaps explain what he was doing when he is seen at that time, and so. 02:59, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

All set. 15:03, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

CBV? 16:24 Mon May 7

Vote is up! 22:53 Tue May 8

Gorsepaw - Silver Nomination
All this needed was quotes. It was in decent shape otherwise. Suggestions? 02:42, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

The main quote is bold. I know that it isn't supposed to be like that, but possibly it's supposed to be like that. I know that anybody could change it, but I'm not sure if it's supposed to be like that in this case. :P 02:52, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

Derp, It was changed. xP 02:53, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, then. So...the main quote is fine? o3o 20:39, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

Yup. xD It's fine. 00:54, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

CBV? 16:25 Mon May 7

Vote is up! 22:53 Tue May 8

Willowclaw ~ Silver Nomination
Erm...Yeah, not much to add on. ;.; Suggestions and comments? 03:02, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

All I can say is get rid of the Fading Echoes section. Jeez, boring character. XD 05:33, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

Yup, done. Lol, she is a boring character...xP 15:12, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

CBV?

Vote is up! 22:53 Tue May 8

Minnowkit (CP) ~ Silver Nomination
Welp, a minor dead character ftw. I reworded a bit, but I doubt there's any quotes I could add, except for the one where Crookedstar's naming them; tell me if I should.~ So, comments? 10:05, 04 19, 2012

I would suggest adding that quote, but not as the main quote. :P Also, in the first part of the first paragraph of Crookedstar's Promise, I suggest giving a bit more detail about their birth and so, such as in what time of the year they were born, ect. Also, in the last sentence of Crookedstar's Promise, could you add a bit more detail on Silverkit of her whereabouts, and what happened after Minnowkit's death? Of course, just a bit detail, we don't part of the article to be based pretty much on Silverkit.

You don't have to add this in if it's much...But in my view, it would be something I would like to know of if I was using the article as references or so. :P 15:19, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

Okay. Re-worded a bit again, added the part where he named them in more detail, and added the quote at the bottom. Nothing else is really mentioned about Minnowkit, but Crookedstar is just seen grieving over all of them...about a page or two later. <span style="">09:45, 04 20, 2012

CBV?

Dovestar (RC) ~ Silver Nomination
Not much that can be added, since Dovestar only appears once.

Any quotes from Leafpool about her? 21:02, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

Not that have to do with Dovestar...there's one or two about the law itself, but not Dovestar.

CBV?

Frogleap ~ Silver Nomination
I'm so nervous, this is my first nomination. I reworded most of it but I don't see much else, Comments? Ducksplash   <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:red"> Talk!  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:blue">PC  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:maroon">Edits   00:34, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Try and expand the last few sentences in CP. They just seem kinda...short, compared to the rest of the article. Take this one for example:
 * Frogleap is with Echomist, Owlfur, Lakeshine, Reedshine, and Skyheart listening to Timberfur's orders..

Could you try and elaborate on the orders given, and possibly what happened?

OK, made it about as long as it could be without copying it from the book Ducksplash   <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:red"> Talk!  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:blue">PC  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:maroon">Edits

Could you either elaborate on the quote descriptions? Which battle was supposed to be his first, who they were going to shred, and who their new denmates were, etc. 18:52, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks and Done. Ducksplash   <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:red"> Talk!  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:blue">PC  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:maroon">Edits  20:59, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

Could you in any way expand each paragraph as much as possible? The paragraphs seem quite short...Also...Hmm, it's hard to describe, but could you somehow add more detail (or excitement, I would say) to the overall history? Other than that, this looks good! 23:32, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

OK, I'll work on that, Thaks! Ducksplash   <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:red"> Talk!  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:blue">PC  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:maroon">Edits  12:23, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

I tried but he's not mentioned very much in the book, and whe he is he's usually just mentioned for a sentence or two

CBV?

Woody ~ Silver Nomination
Because... Woody. :3 I think the article's good. It covers his history completely and he has plenty of quotes. I don't see anything that isn't cited. Comments? 00:40, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

CBV?

Sparrowfeather (RC) ~ Silver Nomination
I added bronze status onto the page, but I don't see much more for such a minor character. Comments? Ducksplash   <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:red"> Talk!  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:blue">PC  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:maroon">Edits  12:23, April 26, 2012 (UTC)02:59, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Mmm, you're right, it looks pretty complete. But I remember in Crookedstar's leader ceremony, he mentioned how he automatically knew as lot of the StarClan cat's names, "as if he'd known them all his life". If that applies to Sparrowfeather, could you add it into the history? Oh, and if you see any quotes, add them, please. 13:28, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

There's no more guotes, but I added in the part about his name, Thanks! Ducksplash   <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:red"> Talk!  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:blue">PC  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:maroon">Edits  12:19, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

Snowy ~ Silver Nomination
Um, I would like to nominate Snowy for silver. I did random page, and what do you know, Snowy came up. :3 I am trying my best to edit her to make her legible for silver. 00:17, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

OK, but you don't need to nominate a character for bronze, you only nominate them for silver and gold. 00:47, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Oops! Sorry, I'm really nominating Snowy for Silver. :3  21:19, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Expand Firestar's Quest if you can. 21:21, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

It's OK, and can you add maybe one or two more quotes... Ducksplash   <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:red"> Talk!  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:blue">PC  <sup style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting;color:maroon">Edits  21:43, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Kay, added a quote and added a sentence to Firestar's Quest. :3 00:42, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Mmm...this is completely optional, but you might consider changing the main quote. Maybe to the first one in the quotes section about how she spends time around Twolegs? 15:27, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

Swallowtail (RC) ~ Silver Nomination
Comments? She's pretty minor, but I liked her in Starlight. xD

Looks Good! But is there maybe one more quote?

Done. I manged to find two more, but that's it. She doesn't speak much, if at all.

I would remove the part about Swallowtail possibly being in love with Rainwhisker. If there's a hint, though, leave it in, but mention what the hint was in the article. 16:20, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Done. The only time I could find Swallowtail in Starlight was during that event..

Food for thought
Yo guys, me again :P When I was working on an Erin Hunter chat for PR, Vicky said something about the allegiances not having a full list of cats. Why I bring this up is that on character articles, if they haven't been mentioned in the allegiances, they're almost automatically assumed dead. Also, take Darkfoot for an example. He never appeared in the allegiances and only apperanced once while in WindClan, I think, and yet no mention of him has him listed as dead. To me, that sounds like speculation. I think instead of assuming they are dead, why don't we assume they have an unknown status if there has been no mention of them? And if I'm missing something and this is already be done, be kind about informing me of my mistake XD  02:49, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I agree with you Ivy. Do you have a cite of when Vicky mentioned this? 21:24, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with that as well. It's annoying to see all of the theories running around saying a character is dead or something along those lines just because they're not seen in a book. Perhaps the editor forgot to add them in or something... it doesn't automatically mean they've died. Unless it's said in the books, I don't think it should be placed on the article that they've died.

I Agree^ 21:44, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

I'm agreeing with everyone above me. 22:29, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

I totally agree. This would explain why some characters aren't listed in the allegiances yet appear in the book. 13:55, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Whitewater ~ Silver Nomination
I couldn't find any quotes for her, and she doesn't appear a lot. Kind of a boring character. Thoughts? 14:11, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand the Fading Echoes and'' Night Whispers sections? ''

I read through that section of Fading Echoes and didn't find that detail in the book. As for Night Whispers, that was the only time she appeared in the book. 00:39, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Foxy ~ Silver Nomination
I added a main quote and redid a couple of things, but didn't see much else, Comments?21:40, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

In the paragraph, there is a link without the two "]]"s at the end. Can you fix that? 23:25, May 2, 2012 (UTC)Moonshine

Somebody must of fixed it, because I don't see it.<sup style="color:red">♘ Duck <sup style="color:teal">Splash <sup style="color:red">♞ 01:57, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

Piketooth ~ Silver Nomination
I redid a couple things, added a bit of history. Very minor character... Comments? 22:20, April 29, 2012 (UTC)Moonshine

Could you add maybe a couple more quotes?

Can you try and detail the history a little more?

Gar I was gonna nominate him. :3 Can you combine some of the paragraphs? There seems to be more than necessary. 22:39, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

I own Crookedstar's Promise, so I looked for quotes before I nominated him. There aren't anymore

Done. I detailed the history as much as I could. With the combining of paragraphs, all of them were about different things, so i couldn't really combine them.-- 20:39, May 1, 2012 (UTC)Moonshine

There's a status issue on his page. Can you either fix it or have someone else fix it? 13:08, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

(I fixed it, Chez, it only takes a second.) In the third paragraph from the bottom, is it possible to detail Crookedjaw and Willowpaw's conversation any more? 13:33, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Wildfur - Silver Nomination
I added a quote. Not exactly sure how this works so tell me if I'm doing something wrong. 00:16, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Can you add maybe another quote?

^^Done. 23:59, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Expand and detail his article please. <span style="">20:43 Wed May 2

That's the only time he was mentioned and there's not that much to expand, I'll re-read the chapter and see what I can do. 02:02, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

I did what I could, I messed with some of the words. 19:32, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Frecklewish - Silver Nomination
Just finished with the quotes, and I expanded SkyClan's Destiny a lot a few days ago because the events weren't in order. I think I can expand After the Flood a tiny bit. Comments? 02:26, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

I think you should expand After the Flood a bit 10:43, April 30, 2012 (UTC)Moonshine

Done. That's all I can really do with AtF, she was only mentioned that one time. 15:46, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Can you add a reference for her Kittypet name, right now it's just one of the [Source?] tags. 21:01, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

That's meant to be like that, since we're currently in the process of finding out what her kittypet name was. It's not going to affect the overall quality of the article, so it's fine.

Willowshine ~ Silver Nomination
8D Willowshine~ Her style and history seems quite well now, except the sections of Po3, which I'll get to. Comments? 04:12, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

You might consider changing the main quote. Just because there are more descriptive ones, like when she talks about how much she loves being a medicine cat and what have you.... x3 04:16, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expant the sections Dawn, Sign of The Moon, Eclipse, and Outcast in any way?

If you've fixed the concerns on her talk page, can you remove the box saying that she needs improvements? 01:11, May 4, 01 (UTC)

Running Fox ~ Silver Nomination
I'd fixed it up before I left and I think it's ready still. There aren't any more quotes I can add. Comments, concerns? <span style="">22:19 Tue May 1

Reword the last paragraph. 22:20, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Is there anyway you can expand the Long Shadows section?<sup style="color:red">♘ Duck <sup style="color:teal">Splash <sup style="color:red">♞

I can't expand Long Shadows, but I'll reword the last paragraph if I can. <span style="">23:44 Tue May 1

Done. <span style="">13:27 Wed May 2

Sheeptail ~ Silver Nomination
It looks fine to me, and I went through the book, poor thing never gets a word out, so comments? <span style="">22:33 Tue May 1

Is there any way you can expand the history? 17:46, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Weedwhisker ~ Silver Nomination
I reworded the history a bit, and added some things. I couldn't find any quotes to add. Anyways, comments?-- 23:26, May 1, 2012 (UTC)Moonshine

Could you reword the first paragraph and expand the next two sentences?<sup style="color:red">♘ Duck <sup style="color:teal">Splash <sup style="color:red">♞ 12:18, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

On his talk page it says he's only started status. Can you change it to bronze? 13:12, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

I upgraded it to bronze. But could you detail the second paragraph of BP? I seem to remember either him saying something about Bluepaw's squirrel, or one of the warriors saying that he'd enjoy it.... 23:38, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

Talonstar ~ Silver Nomination
He's kind of boring, but he has already been nominated for bronze status. Comments? 18:48, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Expand his history if you can, or detail his appearances please. <span style="">21:39 Wed May 2

Done. 00:06, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

Scorchfur ~ Silver Nomination
I remember putting this one up before, I can't expand anything or find any quotes but if anything needs to be re-worded or flow better than I can do that. Comments? <span style="">21:10 Wed May 2

Can you expand Battles of The Clans any?<sup style="color:red">♘ Duck <sup style="color:teal">Splash <sup style="color:red">♞ 21:15, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think so. <span style="">21:47 Wed May 2

I'm probably nitpicking, but could you rephrase Fading Echoes? 22:09, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Yes ma'am I can and I did. (Nitpicking is fine, we want quality articles don't we?) :) <span style="">20:45 Thu May 3

Sol's Twoleg
Should the twoleg that owns Sol in The Rescue be given a page? She appears physically, has lines, and makes a major impact on the main plot of the book. We have cats with articles that make less of an impact and don't ever appear at all. I'd figure we'd either name the article Sol's Twoleg or Harry's Twoleg. I've already added her to the twoleg page under significant twolegs. 21:35, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

I think that she should. If she has lines, then she should. 21:36, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

I Agree<sup style="color:red">♘ Duck <sup style="color:teal">Splash <sup style="color:red">♞ 22:01, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Wow, you're right, Shelly, she should. She's a significant character, human or not. I'd say "Sol's Twoleg" would be a more appropriate name than "Harry's Twoleg". 22:04, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

"Sol's Twoleg" would make a lot more sense, since there may very well be people that haven't read the SkyClan graphic novels, so they might not know who Harry is. I mean, yeah, they could search it, but, we'd be better off putting "Sol" instead of "Harry", since that's what his name is as of now, and what he's known as. Plus, Sol even said that Harry wasn't his real name anyways.

Ken and Jean were given articles, so why not for this one? I agree. 22:55, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Sol's Twoleg should get one, she spoke lines and was seen more than once. It should be called "Sol's Twoleg" (IMO). I agree with everything that has been said already. :3 <span style="">20:37 Thu May 3

Thistlepaw (P3) ~ Silver Nomination
His history looks good and he doesn't say much. Comments? 22:39, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

Are there any quotes about him? 04:42, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

Could you rephrase Dark River, and if it's at all possible, detail it too, please? 23:34, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

Done and I don't think he says anything that describes his personality. I don't have the book to look for quotes. 22:34, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Status Issue
I've been noticing a problem on a lot of character pages. Under the "Members" section of each page, it has a red link where it is supposed to say the status of a character. I'm not quite sure how to fix it, but I wanted to bring it to this project's attention. If you need an example, you can look at Skyheart and Piketooth. 12:58, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Look the recent discussion here. So until Paleclaw completes the template and I move it over to an actual template page, don't do anything. 16:21, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Join Request
Hi there. ^^ May I join? Hollyleaf123456789 16:53, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Welcome, please read the guidelines and refer to the FAQ for help if needed. 18:46, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Rage ~ Silver Nomination
I hope it's fine to nominate this...First nomination! Comments? Hollyleaf123456789 17:05, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

If there is one, add a quote about his appearance or his personality. 17:19, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Can you reword the first paragraph?<sup style="color:red">♘ Duck <sup style="color:teal">Splash <sup style="color:red">♞ 16:32, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

Cause of Death in Charcat
Okay, so I was discussing this in chat, and  mostly >.>   everyone thought it was a good idea. So hear me out.

Adding cause of death to charcat. Yes, it's already in the article, but so is their post-death, their name, their Clan, their family, their deputies, their apprentices, their mentors, their preceding and following leader, etc., etc. It could be between the age and the post-death. For example, Willowpelt would be just "Death = Killed by a badger ", the cite being the exact page the cause of death was identified, not the page they died on. If a cat was killed by another cat, it would be "Death = Killed by (for example) Scourge(cite)" For leaders, it could be the cause of death of their last life, the one that caused them to actually die (Bluestar drowning, Sunstar dogs, etc.).

Thoughts on all of this? 16:48, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

I like this idea because it kills the need to waste time of scrolling down to the last book they appear in before they die to see why.-- 16:50, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

This sounds like a good idea. They already say if they're dead or not, so why not add how they died? owo  Jack  never let go, loonie ❤  17:47, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with this. More information we can add 8D 18:04, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me. 19:00, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

It's good to me...but we need to be really careful about what we add, and it should be added if and only if it's been directly stated in the book. No "I thinks" or "this may have been how they died" or any of that. There are going to be people that think a character may have died of sickness or old age, when in fact it could have been something else. If we don't know, and can't provide an accurate reference where it's been directly stated, don't add it.

Exactly. Even with Firestar. We don't know if it was the wounds, the fire, or a branch hitting him on the head or something that killed him. 19:08, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

No, actually, that we do know. Kate said that it was his wounds caused by the battle with Tigerstar that killed him. The fire was to bring Dovewing back to her senses.

All right. So for that, we'd need a cite that linked to her blog, or wherever that was. 19:12, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

So... it would be something along these lines?


 * Death = Killed by wounds (revealed on Kate's Blog)

Or, however you want to do it...

No, no. It'd be like a regular cite. So Death = Killed by wounds[1], with the cite linking to Kate's blog. 19:17, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Even though I disagreed with it in chat, I think now that it'd be a good idea. 22:46, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds Great!<sup style="color:red">♘ Duck <sup style="color:teal">Splash <sup style="color:red">♞ 18:33, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

So long as it fell beneath the spoiler warning, I'd be fine with it. But what would we do with leaders? List nine deaths? Or just list their final death? 00:30, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

For leaders it would be their final life. That'd make the most sense. 00:40, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, especially because when leaders lose a life, it's not a permanent death (unless it's their ninth, of course). We already list how a leader lost each life at the bottom of the article. 15:21, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

Well, that's all fine and good then. The admins are currently in the middle of tweaking the charcats anyway (adding in a toggle that will allow the charcats to show two chararts at once), shall we ask them to put this in while they're working on it? 15:50, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should 15:53, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Mmhm. It can't hurt to ask anyway. :3 13:25, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Leaving
Yep. I'm going. I never really contributed to this project very much. I'll miss you guys, though. Thanks for everything. Happy editing. 00:08, May 8, 2012 (UTC) Shadewing

Adios, Shadeh. Take care~

Bye, Shadeh. Happy editing to you too. 15:18, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

Bye Shadeh. See ya around. <span style="">20:42 Tue May 8

Brightspirit's Rank
Hey guys, I'm here to try to work out a problem in the Brightspirit article.

You see, I can't find a cite of her having been a warrior. Normally I'd let that be, since she has a warrior name and a cited Clan and is in StarClan meaning she probably didn't do anything to betray her Clans and become a rogue or loner.

However, her main quote threw her rank into question. You see, her quote, while not confirming the thought, could lead one to believe that Brightspirit died as a medicine cat apprentice. She says she thought once to set her paws on the path to being a medicine cat, but that StarClan laid down a different path for her. To me, that could mean that she started ont he path, but that her journey to becoming a medicine cat was cut short because she died. She certianly has the attitude of a medicine cat, saying that she sets out to help any cat she can, no matter their affiliation, and showing a good knowledge of herbs.

My point is that we don't have proof of her rank. I've been looking, but I can't find it. Can someone look in Long Shadows to see if she's mentioned as a warrior? If we can't find anything, I'll send a message to Vicky or Kate asking for an answer. This is what I consider, and I know many of you consider as well, to be a special character, and every care should be taken to ensuring her article is perfect and as factual as possible. 05:19, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

I think the meaning of her quote is perfectly clear. She thought to become a medicine cat, but StarClan had other plans for her. For all we know, she could have been a very young deputy (young ones aren't exactly non-existant; ie, Fireheart), or something along those lines. Or she could have been an MCA, and StarClan called her to be a warrior, like Hollypaw. We don't know, therefore I think her article should be left alone. There's no need to mess with something that's been like that for quite a while, just because of a quote that could be misinterpreted as something else.

Tldr; if it isn't broken, don't fix it. >.>

As for her parents, I'm fine with leaving them as is. They're mates and have warrior names, it's most likely they were warriors at least at some point, so I'm fine with making the small assumption there when we have no reason not to.

And presenting what may be false information makes it "broken" in my eyes. We're an encyclopedia. We can't show false information based on nostalgia or sentimentality. 05:26, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

And no interpretation is a "misinterpretation" until hard facts are provided. 05:27, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

There's no difference between assuming her mother and father were warriors, and her.

Her mother and father are mates and have never mentioned that they once thought to be medicine cats. There's a huge difference. But hey, you want to make it like that, we can also ask the Erins about their rank as well. 05:31, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

In my point of view, I see the quote saying that she had the same case as Cinderpelt, who wanted to become a warrior, but StarClan had a "different path" for her, except that for Brightspirit, it is the opposite.

Honestly, I don't agree. Warrior, MCA, Deputy, Queen, ect... They're all assumptions. Why change it now, because if it was changed, it would still be an assumption. Either keep it, or remove it. 05:32, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

This is about the best thing we have: "The first was a young she-cat - barely old enough to be a warrior - her silver tabby pelt glimmering with a pale light." And you can find this in Long Shadows. Check page 144. Imho, this says she was a warrior.

No it doesn't. It states her age. At the time, Jaypaw was barely old enough to be a warrior, too. That doesn't confirm her rank. Look, I'm sending a message to Cherith right now asking her about it. And unless we get an answer, we cannot have anything in an article based on assumptions. That's the whole reason we went around removing that "it is assumed they died blah blah" crud, was it not? How is this different? 05:37, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

Regardless, nothing is being done until everyone else has had a say in it. No one is removing/adding/tagging anything for deletion/ect, until we decide what to do about it. The opinions of three members mean nothing. Just because one wants one thing, and someone else wants another, does not mean we're going to act upon that.

I didn't have any intention of doing so, thanks so much. 05:47, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't talking about you. I'm just trying to prevent what happened in PCA with the pale/white markings debate from happening again. I think that was jumping the gun, as this is. For all we know, another user might see this and decide to act on their own. It's not against you. >.>

Well she says she wasn't a medicine cat, even if she was a MCA. But she has her warrior name. So that'd mean she's been a warrior at some point, even if that's not the rank she died. I do agree it's kind of assumptions, but..... *shrugs* Also *cough* citing ranks. Why must nobody comment on that? XD 15:22, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

Not necessarily, Paleh. Remember, MCAs can have full names, they just remain MCAs until their mentor dies. Like Leafpool, Jayfeather, Flametail, Willowshine, Kestrelflight, etc. 15:38, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

Guys: If there's no citation for her rank, then she /doesn't get portrayed as a rank/. If we want to be the best, we can't present guesses as the truth. There isn't anything to discuss here. No citation, then it's not fact and it's not on this wiki. Period, end of sentence. That's how this wiki operates. 15:59, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

I'll go look for a cite somewhere. See if there's anything at all..... and Shelly, if she got her full name as a MCA, she would be a full medicine cat. She'd still have a mentor, but she'd still be a full MC. So that's out of the question. 06:11, May 12, 2012 (UTC)

Sandypaw ~ Silver Nomination
Re-wrote history, and expanded as much as I could. Comments?

I'm pretty sure Patchfoot, Fallowfern and Petalnose didn't actually leave, they just talked about it, so that might need removing.(Look on Page 73 of After the Flood) 06:15, May 12, 2012 (UTC)

Well, it was implied that they left. (I know what page it is, I have the book. >.>) I think it's fine, imho.