Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Demotion Discussion
Look here to discuss the new idea of demotion. 23:31 Sat Dec 3

Description vs Alternate
I have started a discussion about what warranets an alt and what warrants a tweak. You can check it out here 00:45, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

Contest Part Two Voting Now Open!
Go here to cast your vote! Please read the voting rules first, though. :3 00:02, December 10, 2011 (UTC)

Macgyver
Does Macgyver get a collar in his chararts? Because he's been seen with one (The Resue manga) and without one. (SkyClan's Destiny Manga) 01:51 Sun Dec 11

Since The Rescue is an offical book manga, and the SkyClan's destiny manga is not as major as the Rescue, I'd think he'd get a collar. Was it every mentioned in the books. I think most of the Daylight-warriors wear collars. 05:26, Thu, Dec, 15, 2011

I'm not sure if it was ever mentioned in the books. But som edaylight warrior, such as Billystorm, don't were collars, so I have no idea. xD 11:20 Thu Dec 15

Okay ^^ fair enough. 05:10, Fri, Dec, 16, 2011

Harveymoon got one for being seen with a collar in the manga. So would Macgyver. =) 18:28, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion to Implement a Screening Process
A project forum has been opened here. Please feel free to join in the discussion. 02:27, December 11, 2011 (UTC)

Contest Winners!
Congratulations to Mountainheart and Scarletwind for winning the charart contest! They are truly great charart makers! And a big thanks to everyone else that participated and voted in the contest. :D 04:53, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Congrats Mountainheart and Scarletwind! You both did really well and you deserve it. 05:22, Fri, Dec, 16, 2011

Dibs for OAs
Everyone knows that the OA of apprentice images is getting kinda fuzzy, so it needs to be fixed. The fact is, the dibs should be over. If you havent done the image yet, youre just being greedy and doing other ones because you know those are yours. Its not fair. I propose that they are just done now. No more first dibs for OAs. 22:04, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

Phew! 23:06, Sat, Dec, 17, 2011

Yeah. xD 00:12 Sun Dec 18

Yay! Maple♥ pool  Mischief brewing 00:17, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Aww...I really wanted to do leopardpaw. :( 00:36, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds fair to me. And if you want Leopardpaw, go reserve her before someone else. You've had ample time (not trying to sound rude)  01:05, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

A proposition that may shock you all
I have a feeling that you are either going to love me or receive this with spiteful scorn, but hear me out. I feel as though we should stop doing tweaks for a little bit. Notice how I said a little bit, I'd think maybe a few months. Guys, I do have my reasons and if you will hear me out, I think you might agree. Yes, many of the older images aren't so great, but they're usually for characters that not many people really care about. Characters such as Firestar, Bluestar, and Jayfeather all have wonderful images. I think that that wouldn't be too much of a pressing issue.

Back in ye olden days when I was still an apprentice, PCA seemed to be clam, cool, collected, and a peaceful place. When we had Tweak Week begin, it was fine, but since we've allowed it to go on permanently, I've noticed that tensions seem to be higher and we are at each other's necks for a couple of mousetails (sorry, I just had to :P) And it's all over images that are redone, getting permission or not, wanting to lay claim to your favorite character by any means, not putting a charart you found on the page, ect (no, none of that was directed at anybody. This is just what I've noticed in general). There are very few problems when people simply just do normal, completely new images. Granted, there are occasional squabbles, but they are easily forgiven and forgotten.

In conclusion, I feel that we should take a hiatus from tweaking. We could set a date for when the chararts need to be approved by (or wait until all of the ones on the page are approved, then shut it down for the time being). We don't have to do anything now, that's just my solution. After a few months, we could go back to tweaking images like normal. I just think that some of the lines are very thin and they get crossed very easily, and we just need some time to regather ourselves. So, what are your opinions? I understand if my idea is shot down, but I feel that the project needs its tensions calmed down and this would be one way to remedy that. 05:51, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Also, another thing we could do is let all current reservations be put up and approved, but no more may be reserved. Just another suggestion I forgot =P 05:54, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

That makes a lot of sense, Ivy. I've felt the tension too. Since we're in the middle of redoing all the apprentices, dropping some of the stress from our lives wouldn't be so bad, after all, the tweak page is pretty low in activity these days give or take a couple hours. A course, this'd mean that warriors/leads could only have two chararts, having three up might bring on a bit too much stress. - Scarlet   wind    ✧ L i   s a   n n a ✧  05:58, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Stopping all tweaks sounds extreme, however I can understand why you would say this. The apprentice blanks should be the main focus. But it shouldn't take months for all of the major apprentices to be approved. That seems a bit too long, maybe like two months. That should be enough to approve all of the main characters. After that, it should settle down a little. Also, it might be better to, after current tweaks are approved, take the next five or ten tweak reservations and then cut it off there. I'm a new warrior so my opinion might not be the best. But that's just what I think should happen. 06:26, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know about stopping the tweaks all together.... Like Mountainheart said, it's a bit extreme, but I get what you mean about the tension, and I agree. Maybe we could just make it so we can only make minor tweaks only? No redo or really big tweaks? I don't know, just a thought. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  08:01, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry, Ivy, but I have to disagree with this. It goes completely against the Mission of the project: "...all character pages should possess accurate, high quality original art." The tweak page helps ensure that all character pages possess accurate, high quality original art, not just the major characters, or the ones whose pages get visited the most. Sure, this idea is only delaying the Mission, but why wait? For the sake of a few eased tensions over the holidays?

Honestly, the way I see it, it's us to blame (and I mean all of us, not just some people. Myself included.), not the tweak page. If there are squabbles, it's not because of the tweak page existing, it's because we are tense or did something wrong or misconstrued a comment or whatever. We only have ourselves to blame. Now, don't think by saying that, I'm insulting anybody's tempers or forgetfulness or what have you. I'm only saying that by taking the tweak page away, you're not going to solve anything. The tension is just going to leak out somewhere else.

To solve the disputes and arguments and high tensions, what do we then do to cool off? You can't really solve the disputes, arguments, etc. You can only leave them be. If you truly want to help calm down a situation, leave a calming, neutral comment, or, better yet, ignore the dispute. Unless the situation absolutely calls for your two cents, just leave it be. Pretend it never happened. It'll blow over soon enough, and if it gets so heated that people are insulting each other personally, then let a sysop step in and give them 24 hours to cool off.

I kinda went off on a tangent there, but what I'm trying to say is this - the tweak page isn't the source of our problems, it's us, and we just need to calm down and pretend we ain't got a care in the world. That's it. That's all. 10:47 Sun Dec 18

I think we should keep the tweaking. We're trying to get a lot of images done, and imagine if another book comes out, we'd have to do the chararts from that book. -- 13:19, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I agree, let the ones being commented on be finished and we could just chill and relax for awhile, it would give users to actually find chararts that really need to be fixed. 15:45, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

I may not be a warrior but we should keep the tweaking. It would be unfair for the page's that need work to be done and finished with amazing and beautiful and very professional looking art for it. And also now it's a lot easier to find charart's to do instead of fighting with other's over one silly image from the newly released book. Like Wild said, it's us that is causing the little fights between us. Would you really stop the tweaking over a few little fights? That, in my book, is a big no-no. PRESENT TIME! Give me them!  16:04, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

I think I agree with you, Ivy. I think it would be good if we could keep it cool for a while. Less arguments would be nice. It seems we've had so much tension. And, I completely agree what with Wildheart said up there. ^^ 17:26, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Wildheart, yet I can't quite decide on my "vote." 17:55 Sun Dec 18

I agree with Wildheart. Maybe we could lower the limit on the tweak page and cool down, and in about a months time we'd bring it back up. I don't really see the tweak page very full now though. 05:33, Mon, Dec, 19, 2011

Shredtail and Snowtuft
I was trolling their pages, and in Fading Echoes, Spottedleaf refers to them as rogues. Would that qualify for a rogue charart? Probably a dumb question. Sky-Jedi  You will talk to me. 01:05, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Nah, it's "Rouges withing their Clans". They were still Clan cat. ~Regifloat222 Riverstar, Leader of the Thunder Snipes! 01:16, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

But then she says that they are rogues now. Sky-Jedi  You will talk to me. 01:19, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

In that sense, all the DF characters should get a rouge charart. ~Regifloat222 Riverstar, Leader of the Thunder Snipes! 01:21, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Can you give me an exact quote? I'll tell you what I make out of that. Please and thank you! =) 01:47, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Meh someone else get it please, i dont have that book. Meh. But I read it many times. ~Regifloat222 Riverstar, Leader of the Thunder Snipes! 01:54, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

It's on their pages, main quote from Spottedleaf. (Can't copy paste with this ipod) Sky-Jedi <font face="Cambria" size="2" color="orange"> You will talk to me. 01:53, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

"They were rogues within their Clans." Actually, there was another part, "They are rouges now." Maybe all DF cats should get rouge images o.o  ~Regifloat222  Riverstar, Leader of the Thunder Snipes! 01:56, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

I kinda agree that all DF cats could get rogue chararts, but there is a slight problem with the notion. Not every cat in the DF is there to do harm to their Clan. In fact, most seem to be there simply to be the best warriors they can be, and I don't think that even every dead dark forest cat knows what is going to happen. Yeah, if they're called a rogue, I'd say go ahead and make them a rogue charart, but otherwise let's hold off on making every DF cat a rogue image until the final battle in which we will see whether or not each cat will actually attack their Clan. 01:58, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

How about the actual residents? <font face="Cambria" size="2" color="purple" >Sky-Jedi <font face="Cambria" size="2" color="orange"> You will talk to me. 02:02, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, well, if someone had just mentioned Snowtuft and Shredtail being rogues, then they would, or if they were just talking about all the DF reseidents, then all the dead cats should get them. The ones they're training shouldn't be, except I think Breezepelt should. 02:05, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe, but... well, that'd be blurring the definition of rogue. A rogue is either an exiled Clan cat or a non-Clan cat that causes problem for the Clans. Just being evil does not equate to rogue. 02:06, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

But Breezepelt does want to cause harm, to his own Clan and another one, and I think he would hurt any cat for a couple of mousetails. 02:08, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, probably. Hmm... it is a conundrum. But he is not exiled. He is part of a Clan still, albiet barely. Think of it like this: Mudclaw was battle hungry as well and probably would have started wars with other Clans if he could have. Heck, he did start a coup. Did that make him a rogue? I don't think so, as he was still part of WindClan. 02:12, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

I'd say no, Spottedleaf was probally taking about the other rogue, which ment that they were ot fully trusted by their clanmates (?). It would be like all ThunderClan cats would get a ThunderClan charart, which doesn't make sence, since the blanks are for different ranks of clans. <span style="">05:37, Mon, Dec, 19, 2011

What if (I'm totally making an open suggestion, by all means, disagree with it :3) we made apprentice, warrior and possibly leader Dark Forest lineart? Because, it's practically a united group, and they refer to themselves s apprentices and warriors, and they basically have a clan of their own at night. I mean, the lineart could be cats looking extremely menacing and evil, or fighting, or something. But it would, again, prove as a lot of extra work again. I dunno, your thoughts? 22:36, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

I disagree. It isn't an official clan. They're all still Clan cats. 00:13, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

Okay. Well i was just wondering, because they will have a lot of importance in the next book, and they have had increasing importance before that. But that's fine, I was just suggesting. 00:33, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

They are referred to as "clanmates". I thought that I'd put that in, as I have no official siding, yet. 00:35, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, they are, good point Twi. 01:26, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, well, I don't think it'd necessitate new blanks, but since cats such as Brokenstar and Tigerstar are treated as the leaders, they should retain their leader images. Some cats (I can't remember who) gets treated as a leader as well, and that could warrant a pixil for them. The ones who are apprentices (such as Hollowflight) would retain their warrior image as I feel their waking world rank should take presidence over their rank in the dream world. Though we would probably have to decide it by forum, but since they consider themselves Clanmates, I feel their images should be taken into account. 01:31, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

But if we made them different linearts just for calling themselves "Clanmates," would we not have to make different linearts for every Clan? They call all of their Clanmates Clanmates. I'd imagine just a rogue would do, since that's what they are. Breeze whisker  01:36, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

I'd think all the Dead DF cats are clanmates already, except for the ones from the actual clans. <span style="">04:58, Tue, Dec, 20, 2011

Apprentice Inactiveness
I've noticed some mentors not doing anything with their apprentices because they aren't even online at all. One of these mentors including myself. Me and Paleclaw discussed this, and she said that if an apprentice hasn't came on so they could be taught by their mentor, they are booted from the apprentice chart. Not the project, just the mentor program. If they get on again, they can rejoin. I'd like to teach an apprentice instead of waiting around for them to come on. In agreement, add to this. In disagreement, ignore me. 01:16, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

In my opinion, kicking an apprentice of the chart should be up to the mentor. Some are willing to wait, some aren't. You know, that was the project doesn't have to monitor how active every student is with their mentor. 02:00, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

I get that. I just think the project should come up with a limit of how much time an apprentice can be inactive before they can be removed from the system. 02:05, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Well, if they're inactive they're removed from the project anyway, aren't they? Just like everyone else. 02:07, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

But don't they have to be like inactive for a month or more to be removed from the project? If they're inactive, they're taking a up a user's apprentice slot that could be used to train a new member. I was thinking like maybe 2 weeks? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  05:21, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe it should be up to the mentor. If their apprentice isn't active enough for their liking, they should be allowed to get a new one. They're volunteering their own time to teach someone, and if they're not there, it's pointless. And by the time you're a mentor you should be able to show good judgement on whether your apprentice is active enough for you. Breeze whisker  05:44, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Mmmmm I think that sounds good Breeze. But what if the mentor wants to give up their apprentice merely because they don't like them? It's not like people would be monitering that. Should it be allowed if we go with that solution? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  08:02, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

My point exactly. Three weeks sounds like a good limit on inactiveness to the mentor program. But what Shellheart said about them getting kicked out of the project all together, I think three weeks is a quite small time limit to get kicked out of the overall project. If the apprentice has a reason, I see why. But if it's just a continuous slack, there should be a limit to where you should just drop them off. 18:14, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know, to be honest. But if you dislike your apprentice that much to not want to be their mentor anymore it's not doing anybody any good. You could just trust the mentors until they prove themselves otherwise. Or have them fill out a complaint with their issue and reasoning. If the number of dropped apprentices becomes questionable, the leads could review whether or not they are qualified to be a mentor and it could go from there. Haha This is probably a silly idea and way complicated, but eh. Breeze whisker  22:01, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Taking break
I bet no one's going to look at this... I'm taking a break from PCA and the wiki for an unknown time. I might come around and leave a few comments or make a few edits, but that's it. Bye bye. 20:43, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Aww~ D'= Bye, Moonleaf. Come back soon. 20:44, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

FFFFU- EDIT CONFLICT! Aw well, see ya when you get back! xD - 20:46, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Aww. Bye Moonleaf! May StarClan grant you moons of rest. - Scarlet   wind    ✧ L i   s a   n n a ✧  20:49, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

By Moonleaf. Good luck! <span style="">22:23 Mon Dec 19

May StarClan light your path <3 <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6" style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">F <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">i <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">r <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">e <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">s <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">t <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">a <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">r <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">! <font color=Green>Merry Christmas & Hannukah to all!  23:46, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

I thought no one cared about me... 00:16, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

We luff you Moonleaf! ♥ <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6" style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">F <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">i <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">r <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">e <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">s <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">t <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">a <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">r <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">! <font color=Green>Merry Christmas & Hannukah to all!  00:17, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

That is total rubbish...of course we care about you! I'll miss you as well! 00:18, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

Vy are you leavung us? <3 :(     (Why are you leaving us?)      Good bye. <span style="">05:04, Tue, Dec, 20, 2011

Aww...ciao Moonleaf. ): And for the record, I care. :) 18:15, December 20, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Nuuuuuu, why? *Has dramatic break down.* Bye D; Maple♥  pool  Mischief brewing 18:18, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

Bye Moonleaf, we'll miss you! 05:20, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Later, Moonleaf. Take care, and stalk us when you can. =3 22:40, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Shredtail and Silverhawk
OK, so, if they were said to be the same cat, would they get an alt. to look like the other cat? Just curious. Bluestar11796 02:20, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

Nah, I wouldnt think so. Their were mistaken identity, not pelt description or anything. - 02:23, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

If so, Bluestar would need one for being called Snowfur. It's just a typo. 02:24, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

If we were to do that, I don't think we'd need a whole approval process, because we can just use the same image that the other character has and put it onto another file (File:Bluestar.warrior.alt2.png) and we'd just put it on the page, because it would be the exact same image as the character's. <span style="">22:58, Fri, Dec, 23, 2011

Flowerstem/star's colors
It says she'sginger....but....she looks brown tabby and white....should we tweak her colors to look ginger? Maple♥ pool  Mischief brewing 03:09, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

They look like dark ginger to me. We could ginger-ify them a little if it's that bit of a deal 05:09, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

They're definitely dark ginger, and personally I really like them that way. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  10:29, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

They look ginger, kind of like a duller version of Brightheart. 18:23, December 20, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Apprenticeship ~ Mooneh
Can I please become an apprentice? I only have Gimp, so I will need a someone who uses Gimp as my mentor. Thanks,

Of course you may! I'll add you in. To find a mentor, though, you'll have to go here. Also, check the Guidelines if you have any questions. Welcome to PCA! 00:42, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Re-join
Cloudskye, you have some magical power that makes people see the common sense they're missing.

Anywho, I am re-joining PCA, but not much art is expected, but i'll be in every discussion I possibly can. xD. 00:35, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Great! I'll add you in as an apprentice. Refresh yourself on the Guidelines if you need to, and welcome back! 00:40, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

FEATHER! Your back! ^^ 00:42, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yesh! Feather! Your back! <span style="">01:24 Wed Dec 21

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD! <span style="">05:20, Wed, Dec, 21, 2011

Yay! Welcome back, Feather! 17:12, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

It's about dang time you listened to me. Welcome back, Feather. =) 22:41, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

BloodClan
Shouldn't BloodClan have separate lineart? They aren't normal rouges.

Hisss, I&#39;m Smile.cat! 01:43, December 21, 2011 (UTC)Scourgeluv303Hisss, I&#39;m Smile.cat! 01:43, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

No, BloodClan cats are classified as rogues. We just give them a studded collar. - Scarlet   wind    ✧ L i   s a   n n a ✧  02:16, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

UserName Change
I am Spottedleaf123, and I recently changed my name, so I did not know if a new topic was needed, but I added it. So, whenever a lead gets a chance, could you fix it? If you look at the chart, I was already in the project. a cat ♥  named Cheshire  Most Everyone's Mad Here... 02:28, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Name change! You mean username. ;) 02:32, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yes. a cat ♥  named Cheshire  Most Everyone's Mad Here... 03:08, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Well nice to meet you again, Chesire/Spotted. :3 <span style="">4:34 AM, Wed Dec 21, 2011

Can I join?
Can I join as someone's apprentice?

Tigerheart273 16:48, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Sure, but apply here to apply for a mentor. Please read the guidelines and look at the tutorials before commenting or posting a charart. Welcome to PCA, and thank you for your interest in joining. 02:11, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Join Request
May I join?<font color="Red" style="background;none"> When darkness turns to light... <font color="Red" style="background;none"><font color="black" style="background;none">I come a callin' 15:25, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Sure, but apply here to apply for a mentor. Please read the guidelines and look at the tutorials before commenting and please practice making chararts before trying to make one for the project. Welcome to PCA! I also ask that you please fix your signature, as it's turning the page red. 14:49, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Tigerstar's muzzle
Hey. I know we've been talking recently about what does and does not get added to a cat's description, but here's a question. Tigerstar has been depicted more than once with a white or pale muzzle and underside, in Cats of the Clans and The Rise of Scourge. Should that be added to his description since it's a recurring thing? Tabbies often have paler muzzles and undersides anyway. Otherwise I suppose he'd get an alt for that (which I've already reserved). 20:28, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Ugh the text is bright red! It hurt my eyes! Anyway...i don't know...i mean,i think it should but...it was added, but then taken off....so...no clue Dx Maple♥  pool  Mischief brewing 20:32, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

I know, I think someone's siggy is broken. =_= Anyway, that's because it was never added to his description. I think it should be, personally. 20:35, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

No it was,he was given a black muzzle and one paw once, i think, not sure about the paw, and then Icestorm tweaked his leader image, and then we removed the thing about the muzzle. But I think it should... Maple♥ pool  Mischief brewing 20:37, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Not black, white Maplepool. I think it should be added to the desription and tweaked, plus tabbies usually have lighter underparts anyway. Its a sahme the project doesnt show it more often. 20:38, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Alright. If anyone else agrees, I'll add it to his description and I'll add it to the charart I'm already working on. 20:47, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

I agree. But would this mean Firestar also has tabby added to his description (though that wouldn't require a tweak) and paler fur around his muzzle and eyes? And it's true that almost all tabbies have lighter underbellies and stuff like that. Could we make it so it's the artist's choice whether or not to add it? Just an idea. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  22:06, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

^If we do that, then we would have to add it to every single tabby here. Shelly just said that technically all tabbies have pale bellies and such. If so then why are we talking only about Tigerstar here? I dont think the matter is that important, but it's just my opinion. - 22:21, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Not to mention if we did that, we'd be hypocrits not to redo every tabby with an unrealistic style 22:31, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

But I mean, why can't we make it like the tabby stripes on torties? Where we're not gonna tweak them all, but it can be up to the artist whether they want to or not. And I think most tabbies have paler underbellies, but I've seen some with either none, or so faint that you almost can't tell. I see no need to tweak, but I think we should let people add paler bellies and muzzles to the tabby chararts they do if that want. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  00:43, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

I didn't say every tabby. Just most. It's a typical thing, a tabby having a pale underbelly. Frankly, most cats have pale underbellies where their fur thins out on their stomaches. I don't think this constitutes a tweak of all images. ^^; I'd say, yeah, it should be a personal choice. 02:35, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Although most normal cats have pale underbellies, since when are Erin cats normal? I mean, let's look at Blackstar, Spottedpaw, Shrewfoot, etc. They do not care about cat genetics in the slightest. I don't think we should add pale underbellies unless it's cited. 02:54, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, fun fact, Spottedpaw is possible. He's just a tortie. Like this torbie. But you're right. In Tigerstar's case, though, he's been depicted as such enough times that it's added. 03:21, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

But that's like saying we shouldn't have added stripes to all ginger cats since the Erins don't care about genetics. And like I said, we wouldn't be tweaking anything, like we did with the ginger cats, we'd just be making it the artist's choice from here on in. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  08:37, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Paleh's right. Leave it up to the artist. And now back to the original matter I presented... you know, by the logic I used, Crookedstar should have cream underparts as he's always depicted that way. :\ I dunno... Hate to poke holes in my own logic, honestly. Maybe Tigerstar with a pale muzzle and underparts should be an alt like Crookedstar's is. 14:46, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, Crooked got a cite for the pale belly after his images were redone. I don't think pale = cream but if so we could use my alt for his main image and redo all his other images (again) 17:23, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

True. But what about Tigerstar? Should it be an alt or his main image? Yes, all of his images depict him with pale underpart, but I'm still unsure. 18:35, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

I think if a cat is consistently shown a certain way in official art, but not described in book as that, they should have it added to their description. Such as Firestar, Crookedstar, Tigerstar, and others. But what if they're consistently shown as something that goes against their book description? Just a plain alt? It would seem a bit odd to add some to the description and make some alts.... I'm not sure. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  22:42, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and I'd absolutely love if we could make Crookedstar's alt his main image. That is probably my favorite image on the whole wiki. *.* ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  22:43, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Loners (again)
So, since the apprentices are about 60% of the way done (woo) how shall we go about deciding who will do the blanks? I'd love to do them, but I'd also endorse Breezewhisker doing them if she wants to. 21:36, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

I thought Iceheart said not to bring this up again till the apprentices were finished? And I think Breeze should do them personally, but if people think only leads should be considered (which I don't think would be right at all) then I'm not sure. I'd like to do them honestly, but I'm sure there are people who'd do better than me. I'd have to see how well they make blanks. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  22:04, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Personally, I think we should see if the lineart we have now can be tweaked first, before re-doing them. The apprentice lineart was redone because it looked weird. I don't know much about cat anatomy, but, I think they could be tweaked instead of being completely redone. 22:06, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Don't hate me, but I just tried tweaking them, and they came out alright, so I don't feel they need a redo. We still have more apprentices to go and a lot that need to approved still, so hold your horses for a bit. But with my blanks, we wouldn't need to redo 40 more images. 22:08, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Haha, I agree with Cloudy and Ivy. Even I tried tweaking them long before the apprentices were being redone, and they came out alright: I dont think the loners blanks flaws are too major for a complete redo. Maybe tweak the areas where they dont seem correct or something. - 22:15, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Beautiful Bloo :D And I totally agree. We probably just need to tweak around the head/face areas. <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6" style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">F <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">i <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">r <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">e <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">s <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">t <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">a <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">r <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">! <font color=Green>Merry Christmas &amp; Hannukah to all!  22:17, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

I'll redo them if you want me to, but I have to disagree about it being just the face that needs tweaked. This is a cat moving like that. Look how it slinks and is close to the ground. Not meaning to offend anybody, but the loners' lineart looks more canine than it does feline. Breeze whisker  22:33, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

I have to agree on that. That would mean tweaking on the whole body. <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6" style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">F <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">i <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">r <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">e <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">s <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">t <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">a <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">r <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">! <font color=Green>Merry Christmas &amp; Hannukah to all!  22:35, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Awww, heck yes. Alright, if you are gonna redo them at least keep the same pose. I mean, that's the least you can do ^^ - 22:37, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Tweaking would be good. Question, why on the talk page is this in red? PRESENT TIME! Give me them!  22:40, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should re-do it, or do major tweaking. Also, it's the Holiday Season so, why not xD <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6" style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">F <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">i <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">r <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">e <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">s <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">t <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">a <font color="Orange" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">r <font color="Red" face="Mistral" size="6"  style="background:transparent; border:1px solid -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; orange;">! <font color=Green>Merry Christmas &amp; Hannukah to all!  22:42, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Wait for more apprentices to be approved. Then Illl set up a vote for people to chose who does the new blanks. Anyone who wants to be on the list message me on my tp. My only requirement is to have at least one charart approved so you understand the project and what the blanks need and it just seems like a general good idea. But for now lets just leave this topic alone until i set up the vote, mkay? 00:50, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Can we have each person who wants to be put on the vote, make a sample loner blanks, then we can just vote for which blank we think is best? It'll make it a lot easier to choose who to vote for, especially for the people who some of us haven't seen make blanks. Just a suggestion. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  06:27, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we should have the voters do the blanks because that would eliminate a lot of people for voting because a lot of people can't do lineart very well. You could maybe have an option that allows people to do try it, if they please. 13:15, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

No, it's a good idea. Just vote for the blank you like best. If you can't make a blank, there's no reason to enter honestly. 14:47, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

I like that idea ^ but I don't think they need a major tweaking just a small one, fix their tails and ears but they honestly aren't that bad. 15:24, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

No, I think they really do need to be redone. They're anatomy is way off. They don't look like cats so much as strange quadripeds. 15:29, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

They look like dogs with cat heads and tails. And I think that's a good idea with the posting the blanks first. That way, you won't have to worry about them being incapable of making lineart. Breeze whisker  17:20, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, so this will be done after all apprentices are done? And what, we do the election like I did the contest perhaps? Someone hosts a subpage where all of the blanks are posted and the project picks their favorite after all are posted. Said favorite goes to the approval page. Sound good? 19:04, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

The Loners have bad anatomy, so I agree. 19:29, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Ill set up a forum, probably in the new year. 21:01, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Rogue Blanks
I think the rogue blanks need tweaked. The blanks' tails look sort of like leaves. And the male blank has its whiskers on its neck, instead of its face. 17:07, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

I've brought this up before. I thought we were gonna do something about the whisker-necks >.> 17:08, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Well maybe if nothing has been done then, maybe we can do it soon. I mean, maybe after the apprentices and loners.(if they get redone) The whisker necks have probably bothered everyone. Though, honestly the entire rogue blank has been bothering me but I doubt they will get redone... 17:15, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

No, the tails look fine to me. And theres nothing wrong with the blanks for a redone. At this pace we're probably gonna consider tweaking all the blanks, which is not needed. But that's just my opinion. Anyone else? ._. - 18:34, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

I'm with Bloo. Honestly, the rogues are not my favorite blanks but the anatomy is correct. 18:37, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, the rogue blanks are one of my favorites xD And the softpaws' tails looks just like the rogue's, and they got approved like that too.. .-. - 18:41, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Rouges are fine, but I think the loner blanks could be tweaked. The face anatomy of them doesn't seem correct. 19:10, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

There's already a conversation about that in the space above this. 19:14, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

I personally love the rogue blanks, and were going insane with blanks right now, i can see maybe tweaking them in the future, but not until like the summer. 21:00, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

The rogue blanks are fine for now. I agree with Iceheart. <span style="">23:11, Fri, Dec, 23, 2011

Hailpaw?
In Crookedstar's Promise, Hailstar mentions himself as an apprentice. Does anyone think that this would constitute him getting an apprentice charart? 19:11, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Since he was shown as an apprentice he shouldn't get one. 19:24, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

He was mentioned, and I think that's enough to get him a charart. And he was mentioned enough times as an apprentice. 19:27, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I think he should get an apprentice charart. Would it be an alt though as a mistake? <span style="">23:13, Fri, Dec, 23, 2011

Join request- Bluesunkatsuri
I'd like to join this project. I use photoshop, and trying to learn how to use gimp

Bluesunkatsuri 19:25, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome to PCA! I can't add you in because I am not a lead, a lead will soon add you in. 19:26, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Join request
Can I join this project? 20:55, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Apprentice?
Can I be Cloudskye's apprentice? Also can I join? 21:38, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

You don't need to ask to join twice. The apply for a mentor, go here once you have joined. <span style="">23:19, Fri, Dec, 23, 2011