Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Minor characters
Since the topic was brought up again, I'd like to propose that we make a page for extremely minor characters. Here's an idea for a template, and here's an idea for a layout for the page. Opinions? 12:09 Thu Jul 30

That's not a bad idea at all. :) I like this, but what about if the character has more than one art? It's probably unlikely but what does everyone think? 20:37, July 30, 2015 (UTC)

If the character has more than one image, the character pixels gallery would work just fine. 08:03 Wed Aug 5

Is this for every single character that is mentioned in the books? 12:25, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

No, it's extremely minor characters that have some significance, or just extremely minor characters. Like some unnamed BloodClan warriors in the BloodClan battle. Some cats there appeared in more than one sentence, like the indentical gray toms recognised Barley as a former BloodClan cat. We could also look at the Dark Forest battle. I'd say unnamed characters that are mentioned in more than on sentence. 22:00, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

I've started a list of minor characters with the series. Just to say, but there is an error to the coding in the Charart template, since it goes after the main page name rather than the title. 08:05, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

Err, it's way too short and doesn't list allegiances and book appereances. I think Berry's one is pretty good. 10:40, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

What??!!! I wasn't trying to take over Berry's version. That page is a page for potential minor characters and it just contains information about them. Not the actual page. Why the heck would I even try to take over Berry's page? It's rude, condescending and stupid .-. 11:26, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

???? It's just a list of unnamed characters by book and the info we have about them...? Rather than an actual template/page layout like Berry's...? Anyway, I'm not too sure we should make a page for all of them - I don't think the 'Orange WindClan warrior' who was part of a patrol or something gets a page - pages should be reserved for unnamed characters with somewhat of a significance (Dappletail's Kit, Lowbranch's Mother, etc.) Maybe for the most minor characters, we could have a page like 'minor unnamed characters' and categorize it by book, the info about the characters put in using Berry's template. Idk. 13:45, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

That...was the idea we started on. That's why I made the template. One big page for every extremely minor character too minor even for a page. That's why the page layout's there. That's what I image the page would end up looking like; lists of cats with info and the history. Also, I think Burnt's list is only there as that; a list. Not an attempt at replacing my template idea, so could we calm down a little? 13:49 Sat Aug 15

All right, my apologies. I think I missed something in the discussion, oops. 13:55, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry I came across that way Brunt. It wasn't my intention. 00:55, August 16, 2015 (UTC)

Anymore comments? 05:05, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

I'd just like to ask if everyone thinks the layout for the history sections looks okay. I could probably put everything into the template since most of the minor character's histories are short enough for it... 11:30 Sat Aug 29

There's a coding error for the charart template, it names the files after the page name rather than the character name. Is it possible to fix it? 11:38, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I can assure you nothing like that happens in this template. I'm fixing up an example on my test wiki right now, so we'll all be able to see how it properly works then. 11:55 Sat Aug 29

Sorry, I read that wrong. Are you talking about the gallery template? We could probably create a separate template for this, or edit the one their is now to work for this page. 11:58 Sat Aug 29

Oh yeah, I was. Sorry for being unclear. 12:37, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah the charart box and gallery is automatic. I think there's a way but I'm not an expert on coding. 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

I took a look at the template and the code that puts in the name is just a #switch tag, so it'll be easy to put something in for this minor character page. 07:13 Tue Sep 8

Can you put back up an example? I'd like to have a look at the template and fix anything else needed to before we talk more on what cats to include. 08:40, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Examples. 12:07 Sat Sep 12

Hmm, can you show a bit more example? I more or so want to see how the affiliations work, with past and present and all that. Also family too, how will we list family? Especially with really long family sections. 22:00, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

Berry? Hello? 00:19, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

I'm getting to it now. I haven't really had the time and motivation to deal with this this week. Sorry. 05:56 Wed Sep 23

I don't know...I still disagree. They have their articles and I don't think they need anything else. 13:55, September 27, 2015 (UTC)

What are you talking about Icy? Allegiance only characters wouldn't go on this page if that's what you're thinking. This page would be for characters who are mentioned like, super briefly. Like "the black tom glared at Fireheart as he walked past" sort of characters. 15:45 Sun Sep 27

Oh, so you mean cats that aren't named? Okay. That makes a lot more sense. 19:34, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

But uh, I should probably say - good luck. There are a lot of unnamed characters. Also, I'd like to help if you don't mind. 19:35, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

Examples updated. More examples, added some stuff to the template. Ignore that bottom part - joke with some friends. 12:25 Thu Oct 1

Now I'm really loving these! Do we want these templates multiple colours or try to match them to the wiki's colour somewhat? 22:36, October 1, 2015 (UTC)

The different colours of the headers, as stated on the page, is supposed to represent the cat's affiliation. We'd put a key somewhere, and probably order the cats by group and all that. I was lazy and wanted to show off the nice colours. 17:25 Fri Oct 2

Looking good, Bert!!! Does anyone have any suggestions/ideas for that template, or is it just about ready to go? 00:55, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

[pokes] hey guys anyone else got anything to say about this? i wanna make sure the template is as perfect as possible before we implement it 12:34 Mon Oct 12

Like the character template, can you add optional other sections on some examples? Like past affiliations and cause of death. Can we discuss what characters to add to this page? Just unnamed characters or very very minor characters, like Gorsefoot or something. 21:56, October 15, 2015 (UTC)

Hello? Berry? 00:19, October 25, 2015 (UTC)

Smoky and Coriander
In Smoky's and Coriander's articles, it said that they're both mates, which wasn't confirmed. On Smoky's family tree, it shows that Coriander is his mate. Without any proof they are mates, it shouldn't be up there. Songheart (talk) 21:59, July 30, 2015 (UTC)

It looks like it's clearly said in Bramblestar's Storm, given that not only did Smoky say that Coriander replaced Floss, he was brushing his fur up against her, and even Daisy is shocked, saying that he thought Smoky loved Floss. It's clearly obvious they're mates. Just because there's not a page number does not make a cite invalid.

I know. That's why I removed them, because I thought there wasn't anything saying they were mates. Songheart (talk) 22:12, July 30, 2015 (UTC)Songheart

It was added before I could obtain a hardbound copy of Bramblestar's Storm, and I just forgot to change it, is all. Next time, just ask instead of removing the information claiming it isn't valid. =P We allow the chapter numbers, because otherwise, most the stuff would be considered null and void... since not everyone gets a hardbound copy right when the books are released. I know I need to wait a few days, and then I go through and fix most of the cites I've added... I just happened to forget about those, is all. The cite is very clearly stated in the book and chapter specified. We do the same thing for novellas, as they do not have page numbers.

Clearly obvious =/= confirmed, though. We need an actual confirmation on that. And for 'replaced', it could also mean 'replaced Floss as a mouser' which is what the barn cats are. I'm pretty sure we've had similar cases in the past, but ones that we couldn't consider valid because it wasn't directly said. 01:24, July 31, 2015 (UTC)

Well, the "I thought Smoky loved Floss" comment doesn't exactly say nothing, y'know.

That's the only comment that gives up any backing; otherwise there's nothing else, and even then it doesn't outright state it. I'm pretty we can't use assumptions as cite, can we? 21:45, August 1, 2015 (UTC)

I mean, that almost outright says that Smoky and Floss are no longer mates as he's taken in another one. You would never say something like that to anyone unless you were certain they were with someone else. 07:18 Sun Aug 9

Even if that may be the case, they could be not mates, perhaps she is just assuming. Either way, unless we get a direct confirmation, like how so many other pairings have needed to be in the past [Lionheart and Frostfur, for example], that's just an assumption, even with sufficient backing. 12:53, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

I sorta get what you mean Bbun but I kinda disagree, but since it's how we do it around here... do we even know if they are fully mates? They could be on their way to becoming mates but aren't yet. 01:50, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 23:00, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I think their are mates because Corr seemed to be a little protective about him and all, and like what someone said before, she was so affectionate to Smoky, and he seemed to not care. Giving hint that their mates. : P 23:05, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I'm gonna agree with Beebs on this one. We don't know for sure. It might be obvious, yes, but there's no statement to back it up - just Daisy's assumption. This case is similar to the debate between apprentice and warrior's names. Even if it's obvious that...for example, Cinderpelt's kit name was Cinderkit, we can't put that because we don't know for sure. It's the same case here. 22:21, August 30, 2015 (UTC)

Nothing says they are mates and we have no confirmation even though it's obvious so I agree with Beebs. 10:23, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm still thinking they could be on the way to being mates, or are mates. 23:20, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't matter. There's still no confirmation. 01:38, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

Quote time!


 * Smoky: This is Coriander. She replaced Floss. She's a great mouser!
 * Daisy: Replaced Floss? How can any cat replace Floss? Pg 67


 * Daisy: Why didn’t I know that Floss had died? Had Smoky forgotten about her already because of Coriander? I thought he loved Floss! Pg 69

That's all I can find on the relationship between Smoky, Floss, and Coriander. 00:46, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I know that. But that is no confirmation that they are mates. So it still shouldn't be added. 00:47, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

It says Coriander replaced Floss - who was Smoky's mate and a great mouser. "Replacing Floss" probably refers to both factors that she is a great mouser and Smoky's mate. I think it's clear enough that they are mates. Daisy also says he "forgotten about her because of Coriander" and notes that she thought he loved Floss. This tells us that he forgotten about Floss and now loves Coriander. i think they are mates. 11:31, October 12, 2015 (UTC)

replacing floss =/= replacing her as a mate, and seriously its only ever implied, never outright said. its just not enough. 17:44, October 12, 2015 (UTC)

Most are in favor of Smoky and Coriander are not mates. Are there anymore comments? 06:02, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

Character Descriptions
Alright, this is becoming too major and confusing to not discuss about. Many many pages with character descriptions are being removed. Like Sharpclaw (SC) and his sharp eyes, and Clear Sky and his icy eyes. Why? We already sorted out the synonym thing and suddenly we are removing everything that describes the eyes' colours. I do not understand at all.

I think we also need a new system for this stuff, as I keep getting put in the dark with this and it is just leading to much confusion. 01:48, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

Basically everything that's not a physical description, like soft paws, powerful claws, etc. You can't see those, you'd have to feel them. Physical descriptions are like something you see at first glance. 02:00, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

Whoever added the Clear Sky thing didn't even check the context. It said his eyes looked like chips of ice because they were narrowed. Context is everything, and whoever wants to add things needs to read before they do. Also, powerful claws, soft paws, ect... that stuff makes no sense to have in a description.

And I saw on Pips description, the dog, that he liked to run around and sometimes chase cats. That does not need to be in a description. 02:25, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

If anything, it's best to establish what's in a description, and what's not in one. You know, to make it easier for once? Perhaps explaining certain contexts and what they mean for desc. , maybe? 00:29, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me, Beebs. A description should be what you see at first glace- ie; pelt color, eye color, gender (keep in mind these are cats and scents also give away a cat's gender), size, condition of fur (ragged, sleek, fluffy, ect), and things along those lines. Claw size for cats like Bramblestar and Tigerstar too, since it's a signifigant part of their character. You can't tell if a cat's claws are sharp, if their muscles are hard or soft, or anything like that just by looking.

We should add this this little bit to the guidelines; just to clarify that descriptions are purely physical and can be seen at first glance, unless it's a major part of their character or what they were named for, and to remind users to check the context before editing. 07:16 Sun Aug 9

Actually just to add you can see if a cat's claws are sharp. just adding that in. 00:24, August 11, 2015 (UTC)

It's sorta the same with soft fur too. A cat's fur can look soft. 21:59, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

Really? I don't know. My cat has pretty long, shiny fur that looks soft but when I do touch it it's really coarse and not that soft. 02:27, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

that's why I said can look soft. 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 23:20, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

I still disagree with "soft fur" being "physical"... 01:37, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

its literally a tangible thing you can touch and see, (most of the time) its physical. 10:14, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

There's two types of soft: One you can feel and one you can see. I have no idea what we are going to do about that though. 00:40, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

I looked at Path of Stars, Thunder narrates about Violet's soft ears, when he was at a distance. I think that's conclusive enough to say that soft should stay up. 06:19, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 00:24, October 24, 2015 (UTC)

Character Template
Alright, so we all know the ongoing issue with the character template, right? It's not showing up right for some, but correct for others. Basically, it's full of outdated and expired coding, complicated statements that are probably unnecessary, and tbh could probably be formatted better due to us constantly deciding to add/remove fields- some sections could use some expansion in their width or height as well. Tribe names are infamous for this- the entire name doesn't properly show up if it's too long, and don't even get me started on having to put "Teller of the Pointed Stones" (with or without 'Stoneteller' at the end of it). I would like to propose a revamp or even a restyle on the character template to make it a bit more functional and easier to fit all of the information. I had a basic thing here and then there was other examples here and in the general history of the page, but I couldn't get some of the sections to show up properly... but yeah, I'd really like to eventually redo and/or tweak this template so it actually works for everyone.

I'd prefer to keep the blue colour, but these still look great! Can you put more on one of the examples as I'd like to see what a full template looks like if you don't mind. ^^ I think you just add age, cause of death, deputy/leader/medicine cat positions and book appearances. Maybe do a Firestar example? He has the biggest template. 21:23, September 16, 2015 (UTC)

Honestly that template does need an update. It's extremely hard to create the thing on different pages because I end up having to jump back and forth between articles to work out the long field names and how everything should be put in, etc.. Plus, as you've pointed out Jayce, the size of different parts just don't work for some pages. Family and education parts sometimes screw up and put different names on different lines and stuff.

I really like the colour scheme on the second one, but I think instead of having rounded boxes we should stick with the rectangle/square thing (or maybe try playing around with the padding; rounded edges have never really worked for me). I agree with an example, but probably not Firestar, because that is a very big Charcat. Perhaps you could try Cloudtail or even Gray Wing, since we've had trouble with his family section before? 05:08 Sat Sep 19

Thanks for the input, you two! I'll get to fixing that around Tuesday, since that's the next time I have off work! If there's any other suggestions, go ahead and put them here. Also, maybe we could incorporate Burntclaw's idea about translated names into this as well? Because how the template is now, that would be really hard to do.

That's not a bad idea, actually. I wouldn't be against having a translated names section in the Charcat template; it would save having to add a whole new section to articles that are already really long. Perhaps you could have it as a dropdown or something? <span style="">09:40 Mon Sep 21

If you're suggesting putting translated names into the template, I disagree. I think that'd cause a lot of hassle, and warriors is translated into a lot of languages ... Also, there's a page just for that. There's no need for it to be on the template. However revamping the template sounds like a great idea. 17:56, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

Opinions? 00:09, October 2, 2015 (UTC)

It wouldn't be too much of a hassle, imo. It's not too hard to find names in different languages now that all the alternate language Warriors Wikis are popping up. We've also got a few of English-as-second-language editors that could give us a hand. It'd also be easier than crawling through the whole translated names list for one character's name.

Jayce, have you added anything to your examples recently? I can tell a bit's changed but I can't find all the changes. totally not because im too lazy to compared the history <span style="">17:33 Fri Oct 2

Comments? 05:18, October 12, 2015 (UTC)

Hello? Jayce? 06:03, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

I've been busy as hell and haven't had the time to properly sit down and focus on this. I'll let you know when I've made the proposed tweaks.

Nettlesplash, Sandypaw, etc
so i'm here to bring up another topic, (yay) which is why exactly do nettlesplash and other such skyclan cats have kittypet images for? i'm aware they were taking food from a twoleg, but......they were still feral the entire time. they werent ever in a house (that i know of), never held for a time (graystripe, leafstar) and never renounced their loyalty to skyclan like...ever. its entirely possible for a cat to get twoleg food while still being feral; you can feed a stray cat for a time, but that doesnt make it a housecat immediately. that takes time and the skyclan cats were doing it for a reason i think? or they were just greedy. whichever, but basically im proposing we remove the kittypet affiliations, (and by extension the chararts, but thats not for here.) 15:08, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

No, they weren't taking it for a reason. They were willingly taking kittypet food instead of hunting for it themselves. They weren't staring, sick, or suffering. There wasn't a lack of prey, either. They were being sneaky and tbh due to their actions, were acting like kittypets by taking the food willingly without another motive behind it.

Yes, but they didn't live with Twolegs, and I think that's what is defined as a kittypet. The definition of kittypet is:

"A kittypet is the Clan cats' word for housecats, that Twolegs keep and care for."

The twolegs didnn't keep those guys. They just went for food, and they didn't live with htem. 18:19, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

But they also went more than once. If they'd gone once, then I would agree, but the fact that they went back, hid it from their Clanmates, and had plans to go back again had they not been caught by Leafstar and the others kinda makes me think they'd have just kept on doing it. Willingly taking food multiple times should count for something.

nah, theyre just ebing greedy. and sure they went back multiple times, but did we ever see any intention that they would have become kittypets, no. like ive said feeding stray cats doesnt make them housecats. 18:30, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

Tbh I never understood why their images were there, and I agree with Skt - being greedy for pet food =/= kittypet 21:56, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

I'm on the fence with this one. They kinda became kittypets but kinda didn't... 00:17, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

Tbh they weren't kitty pets they just took food so 04:27, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

You guys also need to remember that some of these choices were made long before you even joined. The only ones around now who were around back then are people like me, Icy, Splook, David, and Roo. We had a discussion or something along those lines, so it's not like it was randomly added. Clan standard for a kittypet is not the same as PCA and PC's standard. Context implied they were acting as kittypets, by taking food willingly from a Twoleg and going back multiple times.

if they get it because they were 'acting' like kittypts ( i still dont agree) then why doesnt every cat whos ever pretended to be a rank theyre not get that image? it wouldnt matter their intent then, because if a different clan cat saw them then theyd think they were a kittypet or whatever. but moving on, they didnt leave the clan. thats my point. they didnt leave, they were still loyal, they werent kittypets. its just them being greedy, and it happens? it doesnt make them a sudden kittypet. calling them one is false, they ever even went in a house, werent even taken. SHRUG 10:51, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

you also might as well add hollowflight and whoever else it was to have kittypet images as well then, since they got kittypet food in MO. :/ 10:56, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

Gotta agree with Trolly here. 16:56, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

ehhh I'm indifferent about this one. If they strictly came to the Twolegs for food only, then is that really being a kittypet, or just a mooch? If they just went for food, and food alone, that doesn't spell kittypet to me. That sounds more like "ehh I don't wanna hunt my own food so I'm gonna eat some kittypet food". On the other hand, I see where Cloudy is coming from. PC and PCA's standards are different from personal opinions and/or book description. If the project standard for a kittypet is "a cat who strayed from the loyalty of their birth Clan into a relationship with a Twoleg feeder or caretaker", then they were technically a kittypet. <span style="">22:39 Thu Oct 8

If that's the definition of a kittypet, then Nettlesplash and etc fits. 20:42, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

Comma Use
Okay, this is quickly becoming an annoying problem. I was told long ago that there needed to be no commas in this example sentence: "Moon Shadow is a slender black tom." Then later on I was told there needed to be a comma, because it's a descriptive part of a word (I was told by one of the admins), as shown: "Moon Shadow is a slender, black tom." And now I'm told you don't need the comma?? Okay, so seriously, which one is it? I'm not trying to be difficult here, but honestly, I'm getting a bit confused. 14:22, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

I think it can be used, but at the same time, it all depends on what it's being used for. We can't just add it to everything and expect it to be fine. Everyone is taught differently. For how I was taught, "slender black tom" is correct as opposed to "slender, black tom". Two things never qualified as a list in my mind. If it were a brief thing, then I think the comma could be used; such as an allegiance list. But these aren't allegiance lists, so the comma could be omitted and still be fine. In these cases, I think there's nothing wrong with omitting it, because it's still correct. Also, I know you're talking about me, and I didn't say for two items.

I think something that could help is how you say it out loud.

So, if I say: Moon Shadow is a slender, black tom - I stop for breath after "slender". And it doesn't make sense. But if I say "Moon Shadow is a slender black tom" all the way through, it makes some more sense.

On the other hand... if I were to talk about Firestar...

"Firestar is a large, broad-shouldered, sleek ginger tom with sparkling, green eyes." If I say that and stop for breath, it makes more sense. 14:34, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

Actually my last one didn't make sense. tl;dr: It should depend on how many adjectives there are with the amount of commas. 14:36, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

commas are also for pausing for breath? you dont need to pause for breath after the word slender, and it just looks. goddamn stupid. thats all there is to it. if its longer whatever put in commas put putting a comma in 'small, black tom' is just dumb. 19:24, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

It may be dumb to you, but it may also be right in the eye of grammarists (is that even a word?) 19:39, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

if it can be right one way or the other, then its pretty obvious to use the one that doesnt....clog it up for a better term. having a billion commas isnt always the way to go. for longer descriptions, theyre obviously needed, but for shorter ones it really depends on whats being said. and for small black tom or such, it really does look dumb in general. 20:03, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

Commas for longer description's are compulsory as they are listing something. Shorter descriptions, I'll probably need to consult others for that. 20:43, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

I consulted a high school english teacher on this and used the "slender black tom" example. They said use comma. I didn't ask why, but I think it's because you are still listing, slender and black are describing the tom. 06:26, October 6, 2015 (UTC)

Well it's grammatically correct, so there's really no need to remove it. 06:01, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

Anymore comments? 00:04, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

Violet Dawn ~ Silver Nomination
Took me a while. Comments? 06:03, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

There are some grammar issues. Can you fix those? 21:04, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

Done. 22:46, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 06:04, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

Moss Tail ~ Silver Nomination
Oh by the way I have a list of pages still to be nominated for silver if anyone's interested. Go here, scroll down a little and click on the 'Goals' tabber and click on the 'Characters' expand. I've made that list since the categories for not-silver pages are cluttered with unreleased characters and all. So anyways, comments? 06:03, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

There are a few grammar issues. Can you fix those? 21:03, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

Done. 22:46, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 06:04, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

Juniper Branch ~ Silver Nomination
I thank the person who wrote the article. I just checked it over and added quotes. Comments? 00:16, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 05:18, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

Ember ~ Silver Nomination
Simple minor character. Loads of quotes yay! comments? 00:30, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 05:18, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

Dew Petal ~ Silver Nomination
She doesn't have many relevant quotes I'm sorry