Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Beetlewhisker
Beetlewhisker does not have his AVOS sections listed on his article, and although he did die, it is still his article and is still the same character, mistake or not. Should he not have those sections listed? He still appears - and Heavystep has his appearances as well, despite dying. 00:42, June 14, 2018 (UTC)

I think we should list them for both characters, since we kept Rippletail's appearance in TS despite it being contradicted.

A mistake is a mistake, and Kate herself has even said more than once that these appearances are mistakes for Beetlewhisker. I'm sorry, but I feel we should not be documenting mistakes on in the history sections, as we do not document mistakes for the infoboxes up top. ​

Then there should be a page or a section somewhere that details Beetlewhisker’s appearances because omitting him is omitting information. 21:11, June 16, 2018 (UTC)

maybe you could add another subsection the mistakes page that has detailed errors like this? like "detailed character errors" or something thats beyond the usual pelt error colours. 21:18, June 16, 2018 (UTC)

hmm yeah I like that idea^^ cats like Rippletail do need a section to detail said error imo, because for his in particular, he played a decent role even though it wasn't supposed to happen

Any more comments? 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​

I feel the agreement is to include it in a separate section, or at least include it in general...should we make a subpage? Something like "Beetlewhisker/Appearance Errors" and then document when he appears post-The Last Hope? Given he's not just allegiance only, has an apprentice, and was confirmed to be the same Beetlewhisker by Kate. ​

I was scrolling on Riordan wiki and noticed at the top of Apollo's page, how they have a template that separates his greek and roman forms. Perhaps we could do something like that for Beetlewhisker? Keep everything on one page and make another page for his history errors, while having something at the top of the page to direct us easily between the two.

03:00, July 18, 2018 (UTC)

that could definitely work, and this could easily be used on Rippletail as well. 23:46, 8/09/2018 ​

I agree^^ And we can code a similar switch to that as well, it's not that hard to make. 11:17, August 22, 2018 (UTC)

How 'bout these? 21:07, September 4, 2018 (UTC)

That looks great!

20:20, September 6, 2018 (UTC)

Unknown Residences
Hi everyone, sorry for this.

Should Jake and the other cats - not Clan cats - such as Tom and other cats who were said to walk in some sort of skies - have their own status? Perhaps a genuine "unknown residence". 01:49, June 14, 2018 (UTC)

I would agree with it, because it's not right to ignore that they are walking in some sort of skies. even if they don't get a blank for it, they should have some sort of listing. (and maybe change needletail and such to ghost in affies too to avoid confusion.) 01:51, June 14, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with them getting their own status. They're not StarClan, they're not the Dark Forest, they are their own and it is confirmed that they walk a different path, I see no reason why they wouldn't call for their own place.

03:37, June 17, 2018 (UTC)

Agreed^^ It's not the same as that other ghost place, nor our usual residences, so they could be listed all on their own^

Any more comments? 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​

A bit delayed, but listing them as their own place makes perfect sense to me. With the exception of Scourge, since I think it was confirmed that he went nowhere after he died and he just poofed (kinda like the cats who were killed in StarClan and the Dark Forest; Spottedleaf and Tigerstar, for example). For cats like Jake and Tom, I'd say listing that as an actual residence would work for me. Just one question though: would this warrant an article, or just a mention in the infobox? ​​

It is a place where dead cats hang out, similar to StarClan and the DF, but I don't think there's enough info on it to warrant an article. A mention in the infobox would suffice, and also a blank (but that's for PCA to decide) 05:45, 7/08/2018 ​

So are we agreed to list it in the infobox and whatnot? But not to create a page itself for it? Because that's fine with me, as I was only just asking (since chances are people will try and make pages in the future). Also, is there a full list of all of the cats this would apply to? I know of Jake, Tom, and Scourge. Are there any others we're missing? ​​​​​​​​​

I think Princess was confirmed to be dead iirc? 23:19, 7/15/2018 ​

I'm not sure, but I thought this was for cats who had a confirmed afterlife residence, not just the deceased ones? Unless my wires are crossed here. ​​​​​​​​​

I think this should be applied to cats who have been confirmed to be in an afterlife. I don't think Princess has been, so I don't think she'd count.

03:00, July 18, 2018 (UTC)

Was Shanty confirmed to have an afterlife? I think it might be kind of borderline, since he was grieving, but Pinestar claimed to have felt her presence and heard her voice when he becomes a kittypet. Then there's Mole and Ravenpaw, who were also said to have residences outside StarClan, but were visiting during the leader ceremonies where they appeared.RageSnake (talk) 16:58, August 22, 2018 (UTC)

Not sure about Shanty, but Ravenpaw I'm not so sure, since he was both confirmed to be in StarClan and not really in StarClan. . . or am I being an idiot. Regardless, Ravenpaw would get it. As for Mole, I'm not sure, I'd need to reread TR. 01:16, 8/23/2018 ​

It has been a month. Any other comments? 06:11, October 7, 2018 (UTC)

Author statements
Short but simple. I think that we should have a trivia section that splits up into mistakes, interesting facts, but also author statements. 22:02, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

Agreed^^ They should be separate, which would leave more room for things that are actually interesting trivia facts. Splitting them allows for statements that are completely author opinion to not be under the banner of fact. 00:26, September 4, 2018 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me. We might as well, since some of those things really aren't interesting facts so much as they are just general statements. ​​​​​​​​

Sounds good to me.

01:32, September 4, 2018 (UTC)

^ this would be a nice addition 01:36, 9/04/2018 ​

it's been a month, any more comments?

Left behind Elders in Dawn died of starvation
I hope this is the right place to bring this up. It's about Loudbelly, Shadepelt, Frostfur and Speckletail. In their article it says, that they died of starvation. Now I had a look into the Erin Hunter Chat 6, where it is supposed to say so, but it doesn't state it there. The question is there, but the authors say that they either were crushed by the monsters, went to be kittypets or died in RiverClan-camp. Here is the question and the two answers and here is the archived EH Chat 6 if you want to look for yourself. Could the "starvation" thing be removed and the statements be added to the trivia maybe? 08:00, September 1, 2018 (UTC)

Unless we find other proof, starvation should definitely be removed. I'm not sure it even warrants as trivia... the way it's stated, it's not even really said, and is very subjective. All that could be truly determined is they died, not how. 00:32, September 4, 2018 (UTC)

What. That's been sitting there for years, and it's been wrong the entire time??????? ??????? Alright then, that's not what I was expecting. Yes, definitely remove that, especially if the citation has clearly been misused. ​​​​​​​​

Character History
Hello Warriors Wiki. Let me first introduce myself since I've never edited here before: I'm Monollama, a wiki editor with a few years experience under my belt. I am a long-time reader of the wiki, and was a fan of the actual series when I was younger.

I would like to submit a suggestion of restructuring character history sections to be more biographical in order of the character's lives, as opposed to by book order. This comes with a few reasons:


 * As it stands right now, history sections are very hard to read if you're not well-versed in the series or haven't been in years (like me), but I would even say for long-time fans too. Sections in history can jump from being a kit, to an adult, back to a kit, then to an apprentice, to a leader, back again, etc. It makes the information disjointed and difficult to understand, since there's no flow to it.


 * There's a good amount of repeating content, because book order references previous events even though it's described in greater detail sections before or even one after. It makes the sections feel somewhat redundant with information and clunky.


 * Some parts are overly detailed, to what I assume make the book sections in history feel more "fleshed out", but that just creates a lot of unneeded information. We don't need to know every time Greypaw caught a vole in every book. We only need important key points such as Greypaw meeting Firepaw and Silverstream, for example.

I think this will overall benefit the pages and information on them however I of course, would like to hear opinions of editors of the wiki. Also I apologize in advance if this isn't the right place to post this. Monollama (talk) 12:10, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

While I see where you're coming from with "overly detailed", the history sections are meant to be that way, that way someone can get a feel for what really happens in the book without actually reading it. Personally, I am very much against cutting anything from articles, unless the authors of the sections/articles themselves decided to do so. The order in and of itself of books can always be changed, sure, but we're not going to stick Firestar's Quest sometime after The Darkest Hour; we need to keep a sense of order, and just putting it in chronological order would mean there wouldn't be any proper sorting.

This is definitely the right place to pose the question, just know that many people will probably be slightly offended if you're suggesting we chop hard work. This got suggested with PB before, and it did not fly well. ​​​​

If I was offensive, that was not my intent and I apologize for my poor word choice. I understand the amount of work that goes into any wiki, especially an active updating one with an on-going series. While I haven't edited on this wiki, I am an admin and 'crat on Danganronpa Wiki. Actually we too have an on-going project updating character histories but it's on hold currently for other more pressing projects.

I understand wanting to keep as much content as you want per page, especially with a series as big as Warriors and how much editor's have worked on it However, I would like to pose as a casual reader of both this wiki and the series and say when I go onto Yellowfang's page, I would personally like to learn about Yellowfang herself, not summaries from the books of what she's done. If I wanted content about the books, I would go to the book or chapter pages.

For the issue regarding retcons and other inconsistencies (if that's what you meant?) within the books, I would suggest establishing a canon hierarchy with the series. I understand there was some rather unsavory problems about that, in my opinion something like that would benefit the wiki and help settle future disputes.

I'd like to add I have no horse in that race regarding the problems posed by editors, other than I wholly support admin decisions as I am one myself so I understand. Which I hope doesn't come off as bragging or anything negative, I intended it more to be evidence that I'm not just some random editor with no experience. Monollama (talk) 19:15, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

As someone who actually writes a lot of character histories, I agree that we can do a lot to cut out trivial details and get to the main point. I usually try to make my own histories to-the-point, but editing other parts of histories to remove umimportant details has earned me a lot of backlash in the past. In my mind, it's just supposed to be a short summary of the character's appearances and important things they do and say, and not extra fluff like "Lionblaze caught two squirrels and ate one with Cinderheart." So I respectfully agree on making some changes, but I also acknowledge Cloudy's concerns about chopping other people's hard work.  HA WK FI RE98  19:30, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

while I agree some fluff can be cut out here and there, a character's history is intertwined with their actions in the books, which is the entire point of detailing them. we are attempting to implement a personality and traits section for characters, and a shorter summary of their actions after their description, so if one just wants a short summary of what they've don, said, and behave like, they can refer to those. some summaries are also just much older then others and haven't had as much attention put into them, which is why they're more disjointed than others. 19:39, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

For the most part, what we do now is fine. There truthfully are a few character sections I've seen written that are probably too long (read: one cat has a 14,800 word long TAQ section that's really play-by-play), but aside from a select few like that, more detail the better. 19:53, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

Haven't we just passed the character summaries though? Like Sparkpelt we could just summarize all the important events, then if people want more detailed descriptions, they can go to the history below it. 20:49, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

What is everyone's opinion on the formatting of history sections to chronological life event order? I apologize as I should of included an example in my previous replies, but I have a perfect one to help illustration my suggestion. Here on Doctor Who Wiki.

This article is from a very long running series (50+ years) as well as having a very large amount of various media (tv shows, movies, books, comics, etc.) It also lists the different "canons" of events that have more than one ex: "Either because Susan Foreman used the TCE against him while he was holding a matter transmuter, (PROSE: Legacy of the Daleks) or because he was burnt in an energy net by a future incarnation, (AUDIO: The Two Masters) [...]" and sourcing pretty much everything since it's an expansive franchise. There is even a name + pronoun change to reflect that part in the character's history in one of the more recent events at the bottom of the page but only in that section.

It seems however, the answer to my suggestion has been answered with User:~ Aritarius ~'s reply and the passing of character summaries. So I'm uncertain if this topic is needed now. Monollama (talk) 21:30, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

Any more comments? 22:58, November 12, 2018 (UTC)

Long Pages
Hi y'all.

I've been working a bit on character summaries and I've realized that with main characters and protagonists, their summaries get long quick. I just finished Jayfeather's and I want to work on Lionblaze's, but Jayfeather's covered a lot of the page and I cut out as much as possible.

I know condensing histories has already been done (or I assume so -- they look shorter!) and suggested, but I want to bring a new idea to the table. A lot of other wikis have sub pages that separate each part of a character. It makes making pages a bit more messy, but my good running PC with decent internet heavily struggled to load Jayfeather's page whenever I tried to preview it when writing his summary. It made the process inconvenient, and it really showed how much of a problem this really is I guess?

Obviously, not every character will have these massive summaries or even massive histories, but I remember the length of pages being a massive complaint in the community and I can't help but agree. I really love our summaries and that we're putting this idea forth, but I think for MC characters, we should break up the pages a bit so it's not a pain to continuously load and digest.

Thoughts? 04:27, October 23, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with doing something to make these main character pages shorter and more concise. The subpages or some other kind of tabber to separate sections are a really good idea. 'Cause there's no way around these long summaries for some of the most prevalent characters in warriors, like Jayjay, Bramblestar, and Tigerstar. xD  SPO OKY FI RE  14:46, October 23, 2018 (UTC)

Moving them to a subpage or whatnot would be fine, but I absolutely do not want to see articles cut down in any way, shape, or form. I realize article length is an issue we've had for a while now, but chopping work is honestly just offensive. Subpages would be a good suggestion. Would we do it by arc?

Nah, I'm not suggesting to cut them down any further, but rather move histories to sub pages to make the pages easier to digest and edit. The histories as of right now are great, and easy to read from the ones I've been going through so I have no problem with the length of the history, I moreso have a problem with the length of the pages as a whole.

I think by arcs would be great! Have the summaries and trivia/mistakes and maybe family on the main page then have history separated into arc sub pages and maybe a page for ceremonies? I don't think this would have to be for all characters, but at least for the characters that are protagonists/main characters or old characters - ones that have a lot of history from multiple arcs and SEs. 21:09, October 23, 2018 (UTC)

December FA
I know that we talked about Gorsestar. 02:32, November 3, 2018 (UTC)

Gorsestar will work. 22:20, November 11, 2018 (UTC)

Fringepaw
so fringepaw is listed twice so far as brown and white vs a one off mention of black, maybe this should be changed? 07:10, November 6, 2018 (UTC)

The brief history placement
would anyone be willing to go with putting the brief history sections before the main history itself? some of the characters have too much to be put where they are right now, and could just be put as brief summary then detailed summary underneath it. 21:48, November 11, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with making the character summaries as brief as possible, but some of the characters like Jayfeather, Lionblaze, and Tigerstar have been main characters in a LOT of books, and it's really hard to compress that information into a very brief few paragraph summary. Echo suggested earlier that we should have some kind of toggle/subpage for the character summaries and character histories. Maybe we should discuss that again?  H A W K  F I R E  22:00, November 11, 2018 (UTC)

As the author of Lionblaze and Jayfeather's summaries, I have repeatedly said that I don't feel comfortable shortening them due to the fact that they are protagonists for 12 books and that I spent a lot of time trying to condense the events of 12 books into a summary. I'll be fine taking out redundant information, but I don't think there's a way to shorten them and keep them in high quality. I know people are referring to those two pages when saying this, and I don't really want the summaries touched that much since I worked really hard on them, if that makes sense. To combat the length of pages, I suggested making subpage toggles for the main characters in the series so that the pages don't get too long, like Hawkey stated above. 22:04, November 11, 2018 (UTC)

Hmm I don't see that trolly meant to say they wanted them shortened, only that they'd be placed differently on the page because of the length they happen to be. I'm heavily against subpaging, simply because of the sheer amount of extra pages that would make. Not to mention the extra workload, having to sort out precisely which cats qualify and don't, and having some have it and some not would add a layer of inconsistency to our pages. I know it'd only be done for characters with the most appearances, but having that extra amount of clutter seems unnecessary to me, as it would inevitably involve tabbers of some type. Every layer of these makes it harder for inexperienced users to edit. As for the summaries, there is a delicate balance to be struck between length and quality, for them to serve their purpose as intended in the original discussion; I believe that all summaries should be improved to their best, even if it means others tweaking it, by either lengthening, shortening, grammar, or otherwise. We're all proud of our works, but we are a collaborative wiki, after all. 23:31, November 11, 2018 (UTC)

The journeying cat (TFW) ~ Silver Nomination
Hey I'm back yay! Also, can someone add me back to the members section, please?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:55, November 12, 2018 (UTC)