Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Unknown Residence Blank
Are we changing the meaning of this blank to apply to everyone, then? Because when we made these blanks, they were originally only meant for the ghost cats/purgatory cats from A Vision of Shadows (including more recently: Pebbleshine and Ashfoot). We need to have that discussion before anything is posted on the approval page, because the blanks as we currently have them don't apply to anything other than the ghost cats (which we'll need to change the file names for those ANYWAYS, depending on the outcome here), so if we start making them for characters like Jake, Ravenpaw, ect, we'll need to officially change the intent behind these blanks. ​​​​

I honestly didn't originally know that they were solely for the AVoS ghosts, I saw Riin reserve one and figured they were meant for other characters as well. I don't see why they couldn't have the intent for other characters. They are named Unknown Residence and since Jake, Scourge, etc. have the affiliation of that it would make sense to give them that as well. Minkclaw Winter is coming. 04:09, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

That's my bad for reserving early, whoops. But I do agree they should be considered "unknown residence" as well. 04:11, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

I'm personally of the mindset that the unknown residence blanks should be reserved for any unknown afterlife. The blanks were created because the "rank" holds significance like StarClan and the Dark Forest. It's a destination. Cat purgatory. A place for good kittypets. All afterlives. Neither StarClan or Dark Forest, but somewhere present and mingling around. As for the actual "unknown residence" cats...I don't think they should have this blank. For the infobox, I'm all for it. But as a rank, I disagree. The thing with an "unknown residence" is just that. It's unknown. We don't know where the cat ended up. They died, but they didn't end up in StarClan, the Dark Forest, or some form of alternative afterlife. No one knows, hence why it's "unknown".

However, some of them, such as Tom, Jake and maybe Ravenpaw (might have to look at the cite closely), could have this blank imo. They've been confirmed with the cites (again, might have to double check) to be present in some sort of afterlife. I think for the sanity of creating blanks with one or two cats in it, those three aforementioned should get the "unknown residence blank". Cats like Tigerstar, Spottedleaf, and Scourge should not have one since they just died (again) and went nowhere...somewhere unknown even to the authors. That's just my interpretation.

tl;dr cats who have been confirmed to be in some sort of afterlife that's not StarClan or the Dark Forest, should get it, but cats who died and the authors have confirmed they have no died and don't know where they went, should not get it. 04:23, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

use the blanks for both, just rename purgatory cats to ghost.png. 04:25, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

I don't think Jake and Ravenpaw and them should have these blanks... I think they were meant solely for the cats who were stuck between the real world and the afterlife. Not knowing a cat's residence vs. a cat actually being described with no true residence are completely different things. So I think they should just be for the ghost cats.  JOLLY  FIRE  06:00, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

Scourge is the only cat to be confirmed not in any official residence I think, (though Vicky's comment was incredibly vague) while, Ravenpaw and Tom have been confirmed to be in an else where residency. To expand on my comment from before, I believe cats with unknown residencies should get the blank since StarClan, the DF and soon Endless Hunting will have afterlife blanks, I think it'd be fair to give cats with a confirmed sort of afterlife blanks as well. I agree with David's idea of just renaming the files/titles but using the blanks for both, since they're all described to be in some form of afterlife. 06:19, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with them getting the blank, we can rename the files like was suggested above.

16:08, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

I also agree with them using this blank. 16:26 Sun Nov 25

Just to be clear (since this is something I was confused with at first reading some of the comments), this would not be for typical deceased Clan cats who which we don't have a confirmation of a post-death residence, correct? (such as Briarlight) The general idea here seems to be for those who have some kind of afterlife confirmed- I want to make sure everyone's on the same page here, so we don't get more arguments in the future. ​​

I agree, I think it'd only be okay with cats to have a confirmed unknown residence much like Ravenpaw, Scourge, Jake, etc. With a cite that is. Minkclaw Winter is coming. 20:20, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

Yes this is purely for cats who have been confirmed on their afterlives, so Jake, Scourge, Tom and Ravenpaw. Cats like Briarlight and others who have not been confirmed to have an afterlife should not get a blank since we don't know where they are and their is no confirmation of where they are in general. Cats who have a confirmed and specified afterlife should get a blank and cats who have died but have not been seen/confirmed in an afterlife should not. Not knowing where they are and them being in different afterlives are two different things, in my opinion. 20:41, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

What about Tigerstar, Spottedleaf, Brokenstar, and Hawkfrost? 20:47, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

They're just gone. The cats that died twice will never make another appearance and have no residence.  JOLLY  FIRE  20:48, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

That comes in question, should there be a no residence blank? 20:48, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

I think that cats that die 2 times should get a blank, and cats with unknown residence should get one, and Scourge... he... uh... is gone. IDK what to do about him. ~RAR =^.,.^= Im spoopy kittan! 02:19, November 26, 2018 (UTC)

Well all Vicky said about Scourge is that because he doesn't believe in StarClan, then he's not in the Dark Forest or any Clan-affiliated afterlife. I think Scourge can be up to interpretation. ​​​​

I don't think there should be a "no residence" blank, since how can we give a blank to a cat that doesn't exist anymore? It's like Hawkey and others said; they're poof, gone. They don't exist anymore. It is different from an afterlife because some cats still exist after they died. Cats such as Tigerstar and Spottedleaf don't. On the topic of Scourge, I don't think he qualifies for this blank in the definition we're going by. Looking at the Erin Hunter Chat 3 (where the cite says it is), Scourge has no concept of afterlife, and he didn't go to the Dark Forest or StarClan...so my interpretation is that Scourge is just like Tigerstar and Spottedleaf: gone. He doesn't exist anymore. He didn't believe in any afterlife, so he didn't go to any after he died. 02:40, November 26, 2018 (UTC)

The cats that died twice like Spottedleaf among others wouldn't get a blank, I think it was said that they'd keep their last image blanks? Minkclaw Winter is coming. 02:51, November 26, 2018 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure. I do agree with that, since they have no affiliation whereas cats with an afterlife technically do. I think only Jake, Tom and Ravenpaw should get an unknown blank since they at least have been confirmed to be in an afterlife, just an unspecified one. ​​​​

I disagree with using the blank for cats like Jake, Tom, and Ravenpaw. Cats like Jake and Ravenpaw are actually in the afterlife, in the skies, and can and have visited StarClan even though they themselves live in different skies, as opposed to the ghost cats, who are trapped on earth until whatever unsettled business they have is taken care of and then they join StarClan. I really don't think we should equate these two situations, which to me seem rather different, by using the same blank. 21:27, December 1, 2018 (UTC)

If Jake has visited StarClan, shouldn't there be a reference/citation that he has thus giving him the StarClan cat rank? I don't see why they can't have both as well. Minkclaw Winter is coming. 00:02, December 3, 2018 (UTC)

I think the cite was only that Tallstar travels outside of StarClan to visit Jake iirc. ​​​​

^ Cite here. It only mentions Tallstar visiting Jake outside of StarClan, rather than Jake going into StarClan. ​​​​

Any more comments? 01:24, December 14, 2018 (UTC)

So what about Jake, Tom, and Ravenpaw? Do we think they should get an unknown blank or not? 05:44, December 16, 2018 (UTC)

I think those three should since they are confirmed to reside somewhere, but not any other character with no confirmed residence. 17:43, December 16, 2018 (UTC)

I'm agreeing with Ivy here - those three aren't ghost cats, and our unknown blank was created for ghost cats. Imo, that ghost-state of being half-stuck is an actual rank in and of itself. Raven and the others should have a different blank depicting that they have a confirmed afterlife that isn't ghost, StarClan, ToEH, or any of the others like DF. 17:54, December 16, 2018 (UTC)

Should we rename our existing blank to be "ghost" to avoid confusion and then make a new blank for actual unknown residences? —​​​​

I think we should, because it's not strictly an unknown residence--we know where they reside, just not the name of said residence. Plus, they don't exactly walk the same skies as Jake and the others.

Let's rename it then. I read the comments ^^ and I think Scourge should have an Unknown Blank. Since he's dead, and he doesn't have anywhere to reside to, he should be unknown. -- Silverfur   skz  [ 05:20, 12/25/2018 ]

i dont agree with scourge because the way it was worded "Nope, because he doesn't believe in StarClan, and therefore has no concept of any sort of after life." is basically saying he didn't go anywhere, somewhat along the line of currently faded cats. 22:17, December 25, 2018 (UTC)

Any other comments? I also support the renaming ~

Minor characters
This was made in PC a while back, for all those cats without names. However, a decent lot of them have ranks and descriptions, and really the only thing they're missing is a name. If they have ranks and descriptions, shouldn't we be making images for them? I think this was brought up a long time ago, but I wanted to discuss it again. We make images for all cats that have ranks and a valid description to go with, so even though naming these will probably get hellish, I do think that some of these (especially the ones that appear and aren't just mentioned, and have dialogue at that) need an image to represent them. Thoughts?

I agree. Maybe try naming them KP (TR) or something lmao idk what their names would be. (And this will contradict eachother as there's so many KPs in SD) -- 𝕊𝕚𝕝𝕧𝕖𝕣𝕗𝕦𝕣   𝓼𝓴𝔃  [04:16, 12/27/2018 ]

maby we could do for names, [book][clan][rank] or somthing, like a med cat in Dark River (as an example) File:DR.SC.MC, or somthing like that, and if we dont have that info, we dont use it. Im Am TrasH =^.,.^= 18:54, December 27, 2018 (UTC)

That's a good point. They should get images, after all they have ranks and descriptions. The naming is gonna be a problem though, and maybe the naming system should be something like [description].[book].[normal extension]. I like your naming system Owl, the only problem is there may not be confirmed Clans for some of these cats, and it wouldn't be fair to deny them images just because we don't have a confirmed Clan.

if we dont have that information, we could not put it in, so it cold be (useing my example) [book][rank], but we should always keep the book and rank, because if we dont know the book... we dont know they exist, and we need the rank to do the blank. Im Am TrasH =^.,.^= 20:12, December 28, 2018 (UTC)

and longhaired and shorthaired, what about that?Im Am TrasH =^.,.^= 18:43, December 29, 2018 (UTC)

I think the minor characters should be given images of their own, so long as they have a rank and appearance to warrant it.

18:56, December 29, 2018 (UTC) Fur length should be artist's choice, as long as it's not specified, just like how it's done for the other images. I still agree with doing charart for the minor characters.

I'm in agreement, too, but what about where there are multiple minor characters with the same description in the same book, such as for the great battle in The Last Hope there are multiple dark forest tabbies. 04:43, January 3, 2019 (UTC)

I think there should be different chararts for each, as it would be an assumption to say they're the same.

What colors would we make cats just mentioned to be tabby/dark/light or any of the mentioned with markings? Would they be just brown/light/dark brown or would there be creative liberty? I was going through the list myself of curiosity and so far a lot are mentioned as just tabby, dark or light and/or with white. Im probably sounding stupid but I'm wondering how that'd be gone about. SquidwardPlays 13:30, January 3, 2019 (UTC)

Hmm I agree about the multiples thing, and then we can just name them 1, 2, 3 in the order they're on the page (and by extension, the order they're in the book). Anyways our current PCA standards say that all tabbies with no specified default to brown, so it'd be that.

You could always label them as Dark Forest Tabby 1 and so on. 13:34, January 3, 2019 (UTC)

I think naming them by book would be helpful (e.g. OS1-1.warrior.png for the first warrior minor character in into the wild)

Sounds good. With the naming conventions then it would be [book identifier]-[number].[rank].png, then. Any other comments? (also before we do this we need to sweep the page to remove the missing kits mentions of cats that had no names and got named etc.)

Tweaking
im dont 100% understand this proses, because im not a warrior, but I saw that my Crowfrost kit art was tweeked, it almost made me sad, but then I relised, I must have made a mistake, and it needed fixing, than I thought, how could I have helped? and so I had the idea that when somones art it tweeked/redone, the person doing so, would messege the. OA, and tell them what is being done, and they can find some way to help them, like if redone, give them the colors, or somthing like that, or if they dont need help, dont ask for it. (sorry if I make no sence)Im Am TrasH =^.,.^= 02:24, January 8, 2019 (UTC)

Hm.. Crowfrost's kit was your first charart, and you were still working on developing your art skills Owlbite. You can start tweaking images when you're a warrior (according to guidelines) I also think you can ask who's tweaking it for advice on what to do to avoid the reasons needed for tweaking. This is the best I can do to help ya Owlbite.Potato Flakin (talk) 03:40, January 8, 2019 (UTC)

Potato, that isn't your place to say. Anyways, Owl, I think it was honestly just overlooked when it was nominated, and I apologize for that. When the kit blanks are redone, you will still have first claim to Crowfrost's kit. ​​

I believe there was a discussion (a while ago) that concluded apprentices can tweak their own images should they be nominated. Anyway, since the image will be redone due to the new blank, you can claim it then.

That isnt what I ment, I mostly ment that we should at least knowwhen there image is being tweeked. Im Am TrasH =^.,.^= 05:46, January 9, 2019 (UTC)

Family Tree Alts
Should we make alts for incorrectly colored icons on the Warriors Family Tree? Apparently PC regards them as official, so I think it would make sense if we also made alts for the mistakes. For example, Crowfrost being shown as gray, black, and white and Spottedleaf being shown as black.

For complety black squares, unless we know the character is black, it's probably because the icons not finishes so we shouldn't touch on those for now I'm. But otherwise I think alts will be fine. SquidwardPlays 13:07, January 10, 2019 (UTC)

I think we should. -- 𝕊𝕚𝕝    𝕧𝕖𝕣𝕗𝕦𝕣    𝕙𝕖𝕝𝕝𝕖𝕧𝕒𝕥𝕠𝕣~     𝕚'𝕞 𝕠𝕟 𝕒 𝕙𝕖𝕝𝕝𝕖𝕧𝕒𝕥𝕠𝕣~    [ 13:28, 1/10/2019 ]

The tree wasn't even fully ready so the black icones probably are icons placeholder unless the character is black, to addon to myself SquidwardPlays 13:39, January 10, 2019 (UTC)