Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Unoffical leaders (SPOILERS)
Sorry I should've brought it up with PC prior to doing anything. Okay so unofficial leaders, I know that this has been discussed before but in Darktail's case, he was heavily referred to a leader so many times Alderpaw was just like "why isn't he called Darkstar you dumdums". He refers to himself as a leader several times, and they drove SkyClan out and he is the leader of the rogues technically, and they all listen to him and stuff like that. Does that make him a leader, or should we put it as unofficialy? Same thing goes for Jingo, by the way. 14:21, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

A leader is a leader, regardless. At the same time, it would also be appropriate to clearly define what the leader rank is. Is it only a Clan rank, and if it is, then why are these cats clearly labeled as leaders of their own group? If so, then what's to say for cats like Furled Bracken and Stone Song, who were very much leaders of the Ancient group of cats we saw in Long Shadows and Sign of the Moon, and why aren't they entitled to a leader charart?

Is our blank only a Clan leader charart? If so, then why are all Clan leaders marked with "Leader" instead of "Clan Leader", when the leader rank itself is shown to be used elsewhere? Slash's group, Darktail's group (they'd also get a page, I think?????), Jingo's group, the Ancient cats, BloodClan, ect. There are multiple groups within the series that have a clear leader of their group, but they don't get anything special.

Right now I think we should think of status, not charart. What I'm thinking is that we have a leader, but maybe in the trivia it says they're not a Clan leader? Or maybe Leader (Unofficially), and officially can be a Clan? Idk I'm tired 14:30, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

They're tied together, and you can't talk about one without bringing up the other, Icy. =P And technically, cats like Slash, Darktail, Furled Bracken, and Stone Song aren't unofficial. They are called leaders, and multiple times at that. They're just not Clan leaders, which makes me think we need to redefine what a leader is and who does and doesn't count.

a leader is a leader, regardless of the group, they have the same job even if they don't have the same methods, the only real difference is the nine lives the clan leaders get, so they really should get some kind of rank acknowledgement. all in all it's just up to the wiki itself if we want to use the images for non clan cats or not. 14:35, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

I hate to say this, but maybe we could have a blank for non-clan leaders? But this is PC, and I think we can call them leaders (non-clan) or something like that. We need to acknowledge that they are leaders, but not Clan leaders. 14:51, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

They are most definitely leaders, but perhaps we could create a Non-Clan Leader rank/category for them? I do agree that each group probably should have it's own page, as said above.

There are so many examples of non-Clan leaders that I'm surprised this rank hasn't been brought in before.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:33, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

Comments?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:12, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

I think a leader is a leader regardless whether it is of a clan or another group because isn't a clan just a group? 21:21, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Have we reached a conclusion?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  06:22, April 18, 2016 (UTC)

It would seem so. Jaysnow (talk) 02:29, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Then what is it? Are we going to create a non Clan leader category? 15:21, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should have that and a rank too. We should rename leaders 'Clan Leaders' (because they are so often called that) then non-Clan leaders just 'leaders', because again that's what they are called in the books. They should be given a category and rank for it and the rest is up to PCA.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:37, May 7, 2016 (UTC)

Stealth, do you mean PCA, or PC? Because if we give them a rank, we do have to have a blank for it, because that's hardly doing it properly. All other ranks should have a blank, so if we decide to do this, know that a blank will be necessary, as it is considered an official rank on this wiki. We can't reuse the leader blanks that we currently have, as they are Clan leader blanks. But that's a PCA discussion, not PC. I don't know if anyone else is going to comment on this, and since there was at least six days between your comment and the last, Stealth, I think it's alright to go ahead and ask for a final call for comments.

I really don't see the need for a whole new leader blank. Can't we do what we did with the healer blank - tweak the leader? But then again that is for PCA. This is PC and we haven't even decided if it's official or not. 16:50, May 8, 2016 (UTC)

PCA. Yes I meant PCA sorry. Anymore comments for this? PC comments?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  02:12, May 12, 2016 (UTC)

Okay how will we do this? I think clan leaders should be called that, "Clan Leaders" and non-clan leaders should just be called "Leaders", because really that's what they are called in the books.Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  08:51, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, that sounds good, but maybe we shouldn't change the status box itself, and just keep it as Leader: Firestar, or Leader: Darktail? 14:41, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

anymore comments on this? 01:06, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

About 4 people have commented and agreed. How will we do this? I still say the same with my previous comment.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:40, August 19, 2016 (UTC)

I definitely agree with giving them a rank. I think that in the categories, we should label them as "Clan Leaders" and "Non-Clan Leaders" to avoid confusion. They're definitely distinct ranks, and calling just one of the groups simply as "leaders" and not the other would be confusing also, since leaders of both Clans and other groups are almost always referred to as just "leaders" in the books. However, in the infobox I believe they should both just be labeled as "leader" like Icy suggested. 23:55, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Character Ages
Alright, so, I had a nice piece of information sent to me on tumblr last week, and I figure that it's kinda important, since it revolves around the character ages on the articles. Now, some of these appear to be right...but others don't make a lick of sense? tldr the image explains what I'm trying to say... but I really think we need to rethink when we add ages to character pages, because something's not right here. Do we try and fix these mistakes (as there are quite a few), or do we try something else instead?

I think we need this general rule: The ages will only change when a new book comes out and nothing else. I think partially the reason people are mixed up because maths is not the easiest in the world and it's hard to tell how much time passes in books sometimes. I think yes fix the mistakes and be very strict about ages being changed. Maybe only a certain few users (like the charart being changed on the character pages) are allowed to edit these ages. Might be a little hard to reinforce at first but people will eventually get it.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:36, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Stealthfire makes a good point. Jaysnow (talk) 00:37, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

I can reread the entire series and pinpoint the characters' almost exact ages by taking notes.

Let's try to fix all these mistakes. I know seeing the characters' ages helps me out a ''ton. ''Why don't we use the Events Timeline for a reference when we're done fixing it up? 00:42, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Why not just start over with the ages? Delete them from the character articles for now, rework the system (and when and why the ages are updated, just like Stealth said), and then put them back on the character pages? We could always use a PC subpage or something along those lines to have the approx. ages and the evidence that proves it?

I agree; I know that the DTC timeline is being made, and I think that would make it much easier to track the DTC cats' ages when that is finalized. For the other cats too, though, I agree that it would be a good idea to just clear it for now and add it back in later when the ages are updated. <span style="">02:10 Thu Apr 7

I think on a page ( timeline page or character ages) we should have a rough moon time scale. ie how many moons have past since Tallstar was made an apprentice till when was Bluestars made leader. This would help us get an accurate time span. 10:44, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should take them off for now, fix them, then put them back on. There's so many characters, and it'd be good to take them off temporarily to make sure we don't forget anyone.

I think it's better to leave them just on (for now) and make a subpage to put down notes per book and then change the ages for each specific character. It would probably be best to start with Into the Wild, since I will be reading the book shortly.

Have we reached a conclusion? R(Right now I'm working on a timeline so maybe I can help with this.) 21:10, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to poke this. 15:53, April 18, 2016 (UTC)

Have we reached a conclusion or no? 17:08, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

It's seems to me that everybody agrees that the ages should be taken off, then added back on later when the timeline is fixed. <span style="">18:41 Sat Apr 23

I'm not sure, it doesn't really seem like that. Does everyone agree that we should take the ages off until the timeline is constructed? I heavily disagree because it could be a while until the timeline is constructed. 00:45, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should keep them on, it's pointless to me to spend a load of time removing the ages, only to add them back on later. We should just keep them cause yeah, the timeline could take a really long time

Just remove the bit of coding that makes the ages show on the template. There, problem solved. It can be readded when the ages are fixed.

No problem not solved. The ages shouldn't be removed at all. They'll be fixed but they shouldn't be removed. Who knows how long it will be until the ages are fixed? I agree with Spooky. 19:01, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

why should they remain when they;re not right? it;s just giving out false information and I don;t see why other false information is rmeoved but this gets to stay, lol. 19:23, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Because right now they're really helpful even if they're off. They're not even that much off, it's approximate and it IS going to be fixed and I hope sooner rather than later. I just think it's very inconvenient to take it off when someone obviously worked hard to find it. We'll fix it. 01:21, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Icy, I was talking about on the template itself. It's very easy to remove, and since they're wrong, they shouldn't be on character articles. Just because people worked hard, doesn't mean it's not wrong and shouldn't be fixed. It can be added back when it's fixed, but for now, many of those ages are completely and totally wrong and should not be reflected on the article. We remove incorrect statements all the time, and this is one of them. It's not inconvenient at all; it's removing the wrong information until the correct things can be added.

I know you're talking about the template. However I think it's unnecessary as of now because the timeline might not even be complete. 10:17, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Lightflame has agreed to help me with the character ages and I have a template that will help. For now, we can hide the ages as Cloudy said (if you all agree). Would you be willing to do that, Cloudy? 15:21, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

I'll hide it once the conclusion has properly concluded.

What? Don't hide it. The conclusion hasn't been reached yet. When the conclusion is "hide it", then you can hide it, but right now don't hide anything because it hasn't been reached. 02:19, May 7, 2016 (UTC)

Uh, I said I would once the conclusion has been reached. I never touched the template after I said that. You even said in your last message "we can hide the ages", and that's what I was responding to. =/

here are the ages 21:03, May 15, 2016 (UTC)

So what are we going to do about those ages? Should we add the ones I linked? 17:50, May 25, 2016 (UTC)

So where exactly are the citations for those ages, anyways? Also, where does it say that Twigkit and Violetkit are only half a moon old? I don't think that's directly stated in the book... and I don't think Needlepaw's age is either; we can't go by how many Gatherings or when she was apprenticed, because she could have been apprenticed early or late, as we have examples of each kind. Cherryfall and Molewhisker due to various contexts given in the last half of the Omen of the Stars arc, anyways.

Twigkit and Violetkit were calculated from the context given by Alderpaw, and so was Needlepaw. But does the project want to use these ages or not, and we can find the correct cites? 14:40, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

I think the context of age given for Twigkit and Violetkit could be used, since it seems pretty clear but I'm kinda iffy on whether it should count for Needlepaw or not

Comments? 06:15, July 15, 2016 (UTC)

If there aren't any other comments, I say just add the ages to the pages..but there still haven't been any citations given, especially for Needlepaw.

Yeah go ahead.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:40, August 19, 2016 (UTC)

Whitetail and Antpelt in Battles of the Clans
I have a second issue.

Normally in the main series, the cats called Whitetail and Antpelt are WindClan cats.

Now in Battles of the Clans two cats with the same name appear, but are seen as ShadowClan cats. There is no other hint then the name that they may be the same cat, but that's not the problem.

If you look at Whitetails article, the ShadowClan-Whitetail was just added into that article and it's said that her appearance as ShadowClan Cat was a mistake.

However, if you look at Antpelt (WC), the ShadowClan-Antpelt was not added into the article, but a second Antpelt (SC) character was created.

It's exactly the same case with both characters, but one got an own article and the other didn't. So maybe you could decide how to handle this? Its inconsistent like this. You can either make a second Whitetail (SC) character or put Antpelt (WC) and Antpelt (SC) together so it is consistent again and I hope you can decide how to handle this. SuSusann (talk) 20:22, August 20, 2016 (UTC)

I think we forgot to address Whitetail when we addressed Antpelt. I checked this too and I agree.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:03, August 20, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I think we forgot to bring up Whitetail, hence why the mistake is in her trivia instead of it being a different character page. I say go ahead and change it, unless Vicky or someone else confirms it was an error.

Alright I'll go make another Whitetail's page.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:26, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Join request and "Seen-in-Vision" characters
I'd like to rejoin.

Also, I'd like to bring up the discussion concerning seen-in-vision characters. It's happened a lot, having leaders see cats in visions and what-not. Visions are simply that--visions. They are not real, they possibly did not happen, but--and I will admit--some visions are sent by StarClan from the past to the present, to tell the leader/medicine cat/etc. what happened, or what's going to happen. But one would argue, "They're in the vision talking to the leader!" or "They're in the vision, and seen alive!" But how can we truly tell that for certain?

Tldr; I do not think characters seen in visions should be counted in livebooks, or have minor/supporting/major characters listed in their categories. I have removed only one so far, but I'll keep from removing them in the future until this discussion has come to a conclusion. I think there should be a category for "Vision characters", or just having them as "Mentioned characters". <span style="">15:05 Tue Aug 2016

Sure I'll add you in! Seen in vision characters? Which characters are these?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:19, August 23, 2016 (UTC)

Like cats seen in Firestar's Quest and SkyClan's Destiny. Characters like those. <span style="">21:22 Tue Aug 2016

Idk, I'm kinda iffy on this, but there are some visions in the books that play out at a later date and we know they actually happened. I don't really have too much of a preference on the majority of vision characters (and visions we don't have confirmed as real), but for the visions that actually happen in a different book (like Mothflight seeing Bluestar's leader ceremony, which is confirmed real in BP) they should definitely still be categorized the way they are.

I mean, for example, Birdflight. She's listed as living in Firestar's Quest, and if I remember correctly, she was seen in a vision/dream that Firestar had in regards to where SkyClan was headed, etc. Also she was seen joining ThunderClan before SkyClan left, so I'm sure that's what confused everyone. That does not count as living, in my opinion, if it was something from the past. <span style="">21:37 Tue Aug 2016

The prologue of Firestar's Quest wasn't a vision. She was seen alive and that very much counts.

I'm also not entirely sure if being in the allegiances counts as alive? Like, sure, they're in the allegiances, but sometimes they aren't seen in the book at all, even in a vision. Like Milkfur from WindClan, for example. <span style="">21:38 Thu Aug 2016

Why wouldn't they count? We count that as living for every other book, but they're just listed as "allegiance-only" characters.

There's not really any "seen-in-vision" characters that hasn't already appeared alive previously in the book (in the prologue/allegiances) so I'm not seeing any problems here.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:25, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Falling Rain
I have a concern involving Falling Rain. He was mentioned in Long Shadows as being Jay's Wing and Dove's Wing's father, who disappeared sometime close to his mate, Falcon Swoop's, death. He did not appear in Long Shadows, but he was mentioned. In the Facebook comment that is in regards to characters that appeared in Long Shadows from the Ancient cats being in the Tribe of Endless Hunting now, the questions asks "who appears", not "who appears/is mentioned." So I don't think that should really count... And besides, no one knows what happened to him. He could've lived a big ol' hearty life after that, or he could have died. But even if he did die, we can't conclude that given the context, even if he was an ancient cat.

Tldr; I think we should remove his post-death residency. <span style="">23:10 Tue Aug 2016

It's considered a false cite so this will be removed.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:23, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Should it be removed for everyone else's too, or is just Falling Rain's considered the false cite? <span style="">21:27 Fri Aug 2016

Just Falling Rain because the cite is for cats that appeared and as you said, he was mentioned.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:32, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Charcat template
Alright, so, I've brought up to Skye, that in regards to the template you guys have now for the characters, he would like it to be re-vamped, so to speak. I've been learning some coding, and I've come up with this for your guys' new template. Skye really likes it, and I thought a more rounded look would look pretty nice on here. Plus, I got rid of the 'post-death residence' thing you guys had discussed on getting rid of a long while ago, I believe? Either way, I believe it looks pretty nice in comparison to the old, more squared look. I've kept the original colors, and kept the wording size. And if you guys have any more suggestions on what it should look like, I'd be happy to implement them into the template for you to see. <span style="">13:27 Thu Aug 2016

This looks beautiful Snow. I love it! All I'd say to change is rename "family" to "Kin"? Other than that it's perfect.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:07, August 25, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, I'll put that in and let you know when it's ready to view! And thanks, Stealth! It means alot :D <span style="">22:09 Thu Aug 2016

It's ready to view! I thought we could just keep the |familyt and |familyl for the kin/family widget. <span style="">22:10 Thu Aug 2016

Looks good to me! Do you have a test page laying around so we can see what it looks like? There are a couple character pages that will break the current template (like Gray Wing, for example), and the main issue is how it never looks the same from browser to browser.

I think I can fix that with some simple coding for different browsers. Also, I'll make a page and copy Gray Wing's page to it to show you guys. <span style="">02:14 Fri Aug 2016

Hmm... here's what it came up with. I put the family section as how it should look, but I believe that, maybe, if we make the text smaller, it should fix it? If not, I think I can find a way to fix it for every browser. <span style="">02:20 Fri Aug 2016

I think I figured out why it won't work on Chrome. Wikipedia's style sheets don't support Chrome very well, so it's always going to look weird on pages. So there's no fix there; just probably have to wait for Wikia to fix it. <span style="">02:31 Fri Aug 2016

I like the template overall, but the rounded corners on the sub-headers, like "Affiliations" really bugs me. Idk but cause of that I'm just going to be weird and say I'm against this because of that. I think those shouldn't be rounded tbh

I can un-round them? <span style="">13:17 Fri Aug 2016

Maybe make a different template that shows them un-rounded, so we can have a look at them both and compare.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:21, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I've created a separate template for the un-rounded corners. Here we have the rounded corners, and here is the straight sub-headers. Let me know what you guys think! <span style="">21:32 Fri Aug 2016

I definitely like the straight subheaders one, and I'd be in support of changing it to that version :)

I actually like the rounded heading much better than the square one.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:03, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

I prefer the rounded headings myself; it's nice to see a change in the template. The only thing is, the rest of our templates will have to match that. We can't have one in the same style while the others are still the old one. This includes the templates for PB, PW, and PR, as well as the navigation templates... which I have no issues changing. I think a fresh look could do the wiki some good.

I'd have no problem fixing those templates up as well if and when this gets approved :) <span style="">00:10 Sat Aug 2016

Whitetail (SC) ~ Silver Nomination
Pretty easy and minor character. Comments?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:00, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Don't forget to make the talk page. Also, are we sure that those quotes are appropriate? They just seem like typical battle-esque narrator quotes.

Updated Those are the only quotes I could find honestly. If others agree then I'll remove them.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:34, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

Trivia
I think with some trivias, (especially Firestar's) it is incredibly long and unorganised. I'm thinking we add subheadings, just to help keep them organised, like this. To me it's still a little messy so I'm experimenting with sub-sub headings, but it might be too much right now. So yeah what do you think? Subheadings for characters with huge trivias?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:31, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Thank the gods, someone suggested this. I'm all for it.

Yes. I'm definitely for adding sub-sections, it will make these long trivia sections so much easier to read. I think the sub-sub-sections may be a little too much (except for maybe on Firestar's page in particular), but I think adding just one level of sub-sections would really help. 00:06, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

I love this idea, Stealth! Although, I do have to say, I'd love it even more if--for the namely long trivia sections--had a hide/show option for said long sections. I'm pretty sure I could whip up a template for you guys on trivia as well, if needed? <span style="">00:16 Sat Aug 2016

I agree with Ivy, the sub-sections should definitely be added but maybe not too much more than that. I think the trivia sections don't need an additional template, however.

A sub section should be fine but we should also define what "incredibly long" trivia is. Like, would Graystripe count as well? Or someone else? 04:30, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

I think it would depend, wouldn't it? Are we going for number of trivia statements, or length? Because imo, I think if we're going for a number, between seven and ten would be acceptable, due to trivia being able to be long paragraphs or just short sentences. It would probably have to be looked at in a case-by-case point of view.

Yes I'd say it depends on amount of points and length. 7 points is a good bass point, but if the trivia has long sentences then it would still get it I'd say.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:30, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

Join Request
Nuff said! --

Neon Skylite "Just take a chance with me!" (Talk Page!) 01:08, August 27, 2016 (UTC)