Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Character Trivia
So...while going over my userpages, I found little something I must've come up with a while ago for characters with longer trivia sections must've been during some sort of conversation about the matter, idk. Anyways, I thought perhaps I could bring that back to the surface for everyone to have a look at, just in case we ever wanted a more discreet way of taking care of long trivia sections not necessarily for just character pages, but for any pages with trivia. It obviously needs a lot of tinkering and messing with before it becomes anything official; I just thought I'd share the idea and see what everyone thought of it. hhh i sound so awkward im sorry im really not used to bringing up these sorts of things 14:50 Sun Jul 12

I think this is a great idea berry! this would make the trivia sections much neater :) 14:58, July 12, 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like a good way to trim pages! There is a way to put cites in these boxes, correct? 16:33, July 12, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, cites can be placed in these boxes. haha ignore what i used for the example i used what came to mind first shh 17:16 Sun Jul 12

Hmm, we have been talking about using tabs for descriptions and history. I support this, but we don't want too many tabs. I think we can keep this non-collapsible and yeah sort it like you have. I've thought of another section to add: Related to other Cats or something along those lines. 21:46, July 12, 2015 (UTC)

Oh and I'd also thought about the order of the trivia themselves. I think it's best to put them in order of the timeline. Yeah so called Firepaw when already a warrior first, then The Darkest Hour one. If we cannot go in timeline order (like an author mention) then we put it based on when it was released. I also suggest an author information section too, so information from the author. 22:08, July 12, 2015 (UTC)

Woah woah, let's stick to the topic at hand. I think it's a good formatting tool, I'm just concerned that it might look odd with the number of trivia statements we have in correlation to the collapsible boxes. 01:14, July 14, 2015 (UTC)

Is it okay for me to give this a bit of a bump? I'd like some more suggestions for how to improve this idea and want to see how many are actually in favour. 12:11 Fri Jul 24

I really like that idea, Berry. I think it'd be great to go ahead and implement that. I don'tknow if it'd be odd for the trivia statements - I think we should put it on an article, one with a lot of trivia, and one with not a lot, and see what it'd look like. We can work from there. 17:01, July 26, 2015 (UTC)

I like Icy's idea. We should try testing it out on those two kinds of trivia, and see how it'll go from there. 11:38, August 1, 2015 (UTC)

Agreeing here too. I'd prefer to try it on characters that are not too major but fit the criteria, since this is just a test. I'd recommend Goldenflower as the bigger trivia test, and Whitetail as the smaller. 01:23, August 2, 2015 (UTC)

Never mind that, I've made a test page for the changes we would make if we went ahead (this also includes from other discussions). I got a major character and minor-ish character. Firestar's one looks pretty good (full credit to Berry here) but Adderfang I cannot get the line in between the two trivia points >< help Berry! 02:30, August 11, 2015 (UTC)

Fixed; all that was wrong was that you didn't have the correct code. The whole thing needs to be there; removing the 'mv-collapsible wikitable' thing removes a lot of what makes the table the table. It turned out well; thanks for setting out these examples, Stealth. im so proud of myself ;-; 06:33 Tue Aug 11

It looks good! However, I really can't get past the idea that it just looks excessive on minor characters. 21:12, August 11, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah that's why I tweaked the minor character page a little. It seems better to just have box lines without a heading to match the other trivias. 21:48, August 11, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 21:59, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

My original idea was to place it on pages of characters with a lot of trivia, like Firestar. I'd say more than three points would be where we'd put the template, while characters with, say, one wouldn't get it. If trivia is only errors or only other trivia, we'd just collect it into the one dropdown with 'Trivia'. I still have the work out how hide boxes if they aren't needed...so bear with me as I look for a way to do that. I'm glad y'all are liking this though. Makes me happy (': 11:27 Sat Aug 29

I just think every page should have the box template to match each other. It would look strange otherwise. 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 23:20, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Minor characters
Since the topic was brought up again, I'd like to propose that we make a page for extremely minor characters. Here's an idea for a template, and here's an idea for a layout for the page. Opinions? 12:09 Thu Jul 30

That's not a bad idea at all. :) I like this, but what about if the character has more than one art? It's probably unlikely but what does everyone think? 20:37, July 30, 2015 (UTC)

If the character has more than one image, the character pixels gallery would work just fine. 08:03 Wed Aug 5

Is this for every single character that is mentioned in the books? 12:25, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

No, it's extremely minor characters that have some significance, or just extremely minor characters. Like some unnamed BloodClan warriors in the BloodClan battle. Some cats there appeared in more than one sentence, like the indentical gray toms recognised Barley as a former BloodClan cat. We could also look at the Dark Forest battle. I'd say unnamed characters that are mentioned in more than on sentence. 22:00, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

I've started a list of minor characters with the series. Just to say, but there is an error to the coding in the Charart template, since it goes after the main page name rather than the title. 08:05, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

Err, it's way too short and doesn't list allegiances and book appereances. I think Berry's one is pretty good. 10:40, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

What??!!! I wasn't trying to take over Berry's version. That page is a page for potential minor characters and it just contains information about them. Not the actual page. Why the heck would I even try to take over Berry's page? It's rude, condescending and stupid .-. 11:26, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

???? It's just a list of unnamed characters by book and the info we have about them...? Rather than an actual template/page layout like Berry's...? Anyway, I'm not too sure we should make a page for all of them - I don't think the 'Orange WindClan warrior' who was part of a patrol or something gets a page - pages should be reserved for unnamed characters with somewhat of a significance (Dappletail's Kit, Lowbranch's Mother, etc.) Maybe for the most minor characters, we could have a page like 'minor unnamed characters' and categorize it by book, the info about the characters put in using Berry's template. Idk. 13:45, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

That...was the idea we started on. That's why I made the template. One big page for every extremely minor character too minor even for a page. That's why the page layout's there. That's what I image the page would end up looking like; lists of cats with info and the history. Also, I think Burnt's list is only there as that; a list. Not an attempt at replacing my template idea, so could we calm down a little? 13:49 Sat Aug 15

All right, my apologies. I think I missed something in the discussion, oops. 13:55, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry I came across that way Brunt. It wasn't my intention. 00:55, August 16, 2015 (UTC)

Anymore comments? 05:05, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

I'd just like to ask if everyone thinks the layout for the history sections looks okay. I could probably put everything into the template since most of the minor character's histories are short enough for it... 11:30 Sat Aug 29

There's a coding error for the charart template, it names the files after the page name rather than the character name. Is it possible to fix it? 11:38, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I can assure you nothing like that happens in this template. I'm fixing up an example on my test wiki right now, so we'll all be able to see how it properly works then. 11:55 Sat Aug 29

Sorry, I read that wrong. Are you talking about the gallery template? We could probably create a separate template for this, or edit the one their is now to work for this page. 11:58 Sat Aug 29

Oh yeah, I was. Sorry for being unclear. 12:37, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah the charart box and gallery is automatic. I think there's a way but I'm not an expert on coding. 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

I took a look at the template and the code that puts in the name is just a #switch tag, so it'll be easy to put something in for this minor character page. 07:13 Tue Sep 8

Can you put back up an example? I'd like to have a look at the template and fix anything else needed to before we talk more on what cats to include. 08:40, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Examples. 12:07 Sat Sep 12

Hmm, can you show a bit more example? I more or so want to see how the affiliations work, with past and present and all that. Also family too, how will we list family? Especially with really long family sections. 22:00, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

Smoky and Coriander
In Smoky's and Coriander's articles, it said that they're both mates, which wasn't confirmed. On Smoky's family tree, it shows that Coriander is his mate. Without any proof they are mates, it shouldn't be up there. Songheart (talk) 21:59, July 30, 2015 (UTC)

It looks like it's clearly said in Bramblestar's Storm, given that not only did Smoky say that Coriander replaced Floss, he was brushing his fur up against her, and even Daisy is shocked, saying that he thought Smoky loved Floss. It's clearly obvious they're mates. Just because there's not a page number does not make a cite invalid.

I know. That's why I removed them, because I thought there wasn't anything saying they were mates. Songheart (talk) 22:12, July 30, 2015 (UTC)Songheart

It was added before I could obtain a hardbound copy of Bramblestar's Storm, and I just forgot to change it, is all. Next time, just ask instead of removing the information claiming it isn't valid. =P We allow the chapter numbers, because otherwise, most the stuff would be considered null and void... since not everyone gets a hardbound copy right when the books are released. I know I need to wait a few days, and then I go through and fix most of the cites I've added... I just happened to forget about those, is all. The cite is very clearly stated in the book and chapter specified. We do the same thing for novellas, as they do not have page numbers.

Clearly obvious =/= confirmed, though. We need an actual confirmation on that. And for 'replaced', it could also mean 'replaced Floss as a mouser' which is what the barn cats are. I'm pretty sure we've had similar cases in the past, but ones that we couldn't consider valid because it wasn't directly said. 01:24, July 31, 2015 (UTC)

Well, the "I thought Smoky loved Floss" comment doesn't exactly say nothing, y'know.

That's the only comment that gives up any backing; otherwise there's nothing else, and even then it doesn't outright state it. I'm pretty we can't use assumptions as cite, can we? 21:45, August 1, 2015 (UTC)

I mean, that almost outright says that Smoky and Floss are no longer mates as he's taken in another one. You would never say something like that to anyone unless you were certain they were with someone else. 07:18 Sun Aug 9

Even if that may be the case, they could be not mates, perhaps she is just assuming. Either way, unless we get a direct confirmation, like how so many other pairings have needed to be in the past [Lionheart and Frostfur, for example], that's just an assumption, even with sufficient backing. 12:53, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

I sorta get what you mean Bbun but I kinda disagree, but since it's how we do it around here... do we even know if they are fully mates? They could be on their way to becoming mates but aren't yet. 01:50, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 23:00, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I think their are mates because Corr seemed to be a little protective about him and all, and like what someone said before, she was so affectionate to Smoky, and he seemed to not care. Giving hint that their mates. : P 23:05, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I'm gonna agree with Beebs on this one. We don't know for sure. It might be obvious, yes, but there's no statement to back it up - just Daisy's assumption. This case is similar to the debate between apprentice and warrior's names. Even if it's obvious that...for example, Cinderpelt's kit name was Cinderkit, we can't put that because we don't know for sure. It's the same case here. 22:21, August 30, 2015 (UTC)

Nothing says they are mates and we have no confirmation even though it's obvious so I agree with Beebs. 10:23, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm still thinking they could be on the way to being mates, or are mates. 23:20, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Character Descriptions
Alright, this is becoming too major and confusing to not discuss about. Many many pages with character descriptions are being removed. Like Sharpclaw (SC) and his sharp eyes, and Clear Sky and his icy eyes. Why? We already sorted out the synonym thing and suddenly we are removing everything that describes the eyes' colours. I do not understand at all.

I think we also need a new system for this stuff, as I keep getting put in the dark with this and it is just leading to much confusion. 01:48, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

Basically everything that's not a physical description, like soft paws, powerful claws, etc. You can't see those, you'd have to feel them. Physical descriptions are like something you see at first glance. 02:00, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

Whoever added the Clear Sky thing didn't even check the context. It said his eyes looked like chips of ice because they were narrowed. Context is everything, and whoever wants to add things needs to read before they do. Also, powerful claws, soft paws, ect... that stuff makes no sense to have in a description.

And I saw on Pips description, the dog, that he liked to run around and sometimes chase cats. That does not need to be in a description. 02:25, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

If anything, it's best to establish what's in a description, and what's not in one. You know, to make it easier for once? Perhaps explaining certain contexts and what they mean for desc. , maybe? 00:29, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me, Beebs. A description should be what you see at first glace- ie; pelt color, eye color, gender (keep in mind these are cats and scents also give away a cat's gender), size, condition of fur (ragged, sleek, fluffy, ect), and things along those lines. Claw size for cats like Bramblestar and Tigerstar too, since it's a signifigant part of their character. You can't tell if a cat's claws are sharp, if their muscles are hard or soft, or anything like that just by looking.

We should add this this little bit to the guidelines; just to clarify that descriptions are purely physical and can be seen at first glance, unless it's a major part of their character or what they were named for, and to remind users to check the context before editing. 07:16 Sun Aug 9

Actually just to add you can see if a cat's claws are sharp. just adding that in. 00:24, August 11, 2015 (UTC)

It's sorta the same with soft fur too. A cat's fur can look soft. 21:59, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

Really? I don't know. My cat has pretty long, shiny fur that looks soft but when I do touch it it's really coarse and not that soft. 02:27, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

that's why I said can look soft. 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 23:20, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Dead Cat Talk
Firstly, I think we need to remove the post-death thing since it's not really needed anymore.

Secondly, are we giving cats of the Tribe of Endless Hunting a rank? It seems they are similar enough to StarClan, Vicky seems to think they are very similar. All other information we have on the Tribe of Endless Hunting is from the books so... 02:27, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

Well, only an admin can remove it from the template, and I'm only going to do that if we can come to a clear decision. Also, one word from Vicky doesn't automatically mean much in my eyes, imho. Regardless, if we'd do that, then we'd probably need to also shift the discussion to PCA and give them blanks. Although, I was under the impression that they kept some form of organization... I can't remember who said it, but it might have been Kate? I still don't think we know enough about the Tribe of Endless Hunting to make this decision, but that's just me.

Comments? 00:00, August 28, 2015 (UTC)

Tbh, I agree with Jayce. I don't think we have enough about them... 11:29, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Agreeing with Skye and Sorrel - there's just not enough information. 13:26, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, what about the post-death? It's becoming useless for StarClan and Dark forest cats. 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 23:20, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Nature/personality section
We have sections like this on animal pages, so I don't see why we don't have short sections describing the personalities of the cats whose character is fleshed out enough for a clear personality to show. (Firestar, Cloudtail, Sorreltail, etc.) Other wikis do this, and it's a rather important piece of information, especially for those looking for character references for fanfics. I think this may have been discussed in the past but a clear conclusion was never decided upon...so, opinions? 11:22 Sat Aug 29

I do think this a good idea - we could all work on a personality together, throwing in personality traits and working toward a full paragraph/s of personality. Maybe we could do it like we do pages - someone nominates with their full piece, and others pitch in with their suggestions. That way, there wouldn't be many disagreements and edit wars, and the final piece wouldn't be constantly edited for different things on the page. Just suggestions. 11:27, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Personalities are opinions, people may have inconsistent opinions on different character's personality traits. Some characters don't even have specified personalities at all. I think this is unnecessary, unreliable and it's an opinion rather than a fact. There was actually a page that was made for this, but then it was decided to be deleted in the end... 11:37, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think Ferncloud's general caring air or Firestar's sense of leadership are opinions; we'd probably encounter issues with cats like Thistleclaw, but there are characters that have personalities. Also, saying a personality is an opinion is doing a great disservice to the writers, and throwing a character's development out of the window, so, as an author myself, I'd appreciate it if you didn't say that. ._. <span style="">12:01 Sat Aug 29

Well, personality isn't an opinion to the authors - they know what their characters' personality is going to be. But it does become an opinion. People/cats in the book may have different views of a character, which means there could be some bias (ex: Thistleclaw, Breezepelt) plus people reading the book could interpret certain actions in different ways. But maybe for the most major characters, like Firestar, where his intended personality is very clear. 12:19, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Seriously, chill out- my comment was nowhere near to anything that offensive. Like Ice said, it's an opinion to us readers. People have different opinions on each character's personalities. We are an encyclopedia, and personalities aren't facts when we cite them- they are opinions. And as for Firestar, it is actually pretty inconsistent. Many one-star reviewers on amazon are discussing here and there about him being a struck-up arrogant and perfect stereotype instead of sense of a fair, calm and wise leader as others think. Tl;dr: Personalities are too inconsistent to be properly cited in an encyclopedia. 12:36, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with this. Character personalities are the readers' opinion. For example, I think Thistleclaw is ambitious. Roo could say she thinks Thistleclaw is not ambitious enough. I'm not sure, I just disagree because I think that personality traits are up to the reader and the authors do have different opinions on the traits as well sometimes. I just don't think this is a great idea and maybe it should just be referenced in the history section. Even then, we wouldn't have a lot of space to fill out about personality. It'd basically just be like, "Ferncloud is caring." We can reference that in her history. That's just my take. 15:07, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I think it will become too hectic to make, and there are some characters we don't have enough information to make it. 22:31, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

imo, a character's personality can change depending on whose viewpoint you're reading from. Let's take everyone's favorite ThunderClan cat, Thistleclaw! To the reader from a normal point of view, like, say, Tigerpaw/Tigerclaw, Thistleclaw might seem like this amazing teacher, mentor, and friend. But to Bluefur, Thistleclaw is this ambitious (in a bad way) cat who wants nothing more than to cause arguments.

Tigerclaw/Tigerstar is the same way, and books like Tigerclaw's Fury prove that. He appears to ShadowClan as a good cat and claims that he was forced out by Fireheart, and that he did nothing wrong. Now, the reader knows this isn't true, but does ShadowClan? No, probably not. It's the same for other cats too- to ThunderClan, Onestar is this arrogant and greedy leader, or some crap like that, but to his own Clan? He would probably be a good leader.

Personalities are subjective to the point of view we're currently reading from, and the narrative implies as much. Some cats don't like others, so their views are naturally going to be on the negative side. They're also going to be bias towards whoever's writing the section, I would think. It's a good idea, yes, but it would have to be thought out carefully to get rid of all subjective and bias views.

Goosefeather's Curse ~ Revealed Family Relations
A lot of older cats are revealed to be siblings, and that's made a massive add in family relations and affects a lot of cats. Can I have help with making sure I get all family members? It should be easy to track with the main character pages:


 * Flashnose
 * Daisytoe and Rooktail
 * Harepounce
 * Fallowsong
 * Rainfur

We also have Daisytoe and Flashnose as siblings. Since Flashnose is Swiftbreeze's mother, most of Bluestar's family are possible SkyClan descendants. I ask for when you make changes to Daisytoe's descendants, add in trivia they have are possibly SkyClan descendants.

Good job everyone for the work so far, and I'm pretty sure surprise family relations between cats will be popping up everywhere. ;) 07:02, September 2, 2015 (UTC)

Swallow - Silver Nomination
Comments?

CBV? 06:46, September 13, 2015 (UTC)

Mistlekit (again)
tbh that was archived without a proper conclusion to the entire discussion. ._. I still don't think Kate's comment is even valid enough for an article, because it's Kate liking a fan idea. Why is that allowed, but her liking other fan ideas isn't, like for descriptions? Or Kate saying that Nightcloud and Breezepelt went on the run? "let's call her Mistlekit" doesn't seem like much of anything aside from Kate giving an unofficial name to a character...

I think it's alright to be honest. She confirms the name and gender and that's it. 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

But how exactly is that a confirmation? I fail to see it.

Nah, I agree with Jayce...all she said is that she likes the idea. She says that with descriptions a lot and we don't accept them as official, so why is this any different? <span style="">12:38 Sat Sep 12

Redthistle ~ Silver Nomination
she does like, nothing. the only quote she has is her complaining about the cold which i didnt see as really necessary, but i can add it if people want it i guess <span style="">14:35 Tue Sep 8

I'd rather you add the quote then leave it tbh. Such minor characters usually are given any speaking quotes they have. 21:31, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Add it as a quote, but not the main quote. It doesn't describe her, but it could be useful as a quote. 21:36, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Added. <span style="">10:13 Wed Sep 9

CBV? 06:28, September 14, 2015 (UTC)

Vote's up! 00:33, September 19, 2015 (UTC)

See More sections in Histories
Did some miss the discussion under the spoiler tag section? It moved along to using the tabbers in histories to more make the page shorter than for spoilers. I was told people missed something this major so I'll list what I have so far.

My test pages shows good examples in the history of how much it can shorten the page and the coding. I found that using the tabber under individual book histories is better than series. This will be used on more major character pages with lots of information in their histories.

Yeah so, comment away. The more the better. 01:09, September 9, 2015 (UTC)

I will repeat what I said before: you and Beebs talking and agreeing is not a discussion. I am still a member of this project, as are Icy, Burnt, Fox, Winter, Icebreeze, and many others. Just because the two of you agree does not mean anything- and considering it was not under a new section, it's not alright to go ahead and implement something this major because it was coined off with two people discussing that. A new idea must be under a new section, unless you are making it clear in the initial section post that it's going to have more than one idea.

As for this. I don't think it's necessary at all. So what if the pages are big? I can almost promise you this is going to hinder certain mobile editing options. The show/hide boxes don't always load on mobile (I'm mobile almost daily tbh), and I think it's just too much unnecessary coding. It just seems like it's randomly placed in the history. Now, if you want to do something like the Mass Effect wiki and have it under individual sections, then I might go with it, but for now, I don't think it's good having it plastered somewhere randomly in the middle of an article.

I honestly think the "see more" section in general is useless. The page is long and it's long for a reason because it's got history. I think that's a bunch of unnecessary work and coding to something that I don't think will prove any use. 01:20, September 9, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, no. The see mores in family sections make it impossible for me to edit them on my iPad already; I, and other mobile editors, don't need any other hinderences. I wouldn't be totally against in, say...histories of older characters (Goosefeather, Moonflower, etc.) appearing in newer books and keeping them in there for a month (in the sort of way the Final Fantasy wiki does to all their history sections; just a collapsible box with a spoiler warning as the header) for a month after the book's release, but...yeah. It'd be annoying for mobile editors like me. It just seems a little...useless. <span style="">10:07 Wed Sep 9

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to agree with the above. Sometimes those see-mores won't load on my computer, much less on my iPad/phone. It would make it hard for many people to view and edit the wiki. I don't really see the problem with a long page other than that it's hard to load, and additional coding makes it harder. And I think that, like with the spoiler warnings, people have been warned about the spoilers at the top of the page and doing anything else seems unnecessary to me. 21:16, September 9, 2015 (UTC)

River, Shadow, Thunder, and Wind
I don't know if this topic has been touched upon but I'm wondering if we should /really/ keep their names the way they are right now. Right now we'll have to wait until Mothflight's Vision to see what's really gonna happen to them, but they've been described with other names for 6 books straight, and only with those names for one book. Should we change it? 01:19, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

I think Gray Wing should get a page rename as well tbh. He was never Graystar or Graywing, and it's not like his name's going to randomly change anymore- he's dead.

Hmmm... Weren't they called Thunder, Wind and Shadow in Long Shadows Though? 02:57, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but that's one book, versus the entire arc where they're called something else. For all we know, they could have been called that before the idea of Dawn of the Clans came up, and tbh, if they're not called River, Shadow, and Wind during Moth Flight's Vision, then I really think we should consider changing their names to what we have many many many more citations for... especially since these names are looking to be much more canon than the names we saw in Long Shadows.

But isn't Long Shadows The most recent for the Warriors timeline? IDK, for names, should most recent serve more useful than more used? 03:05, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

Not necessarily. I would think that logic would suffice if we were talking about Clan cat. For example, we wouldn't rename Firestar's article to Fireheart, or Cloudtail's article to Cloudpaw. With Tall Shadow, River Ripple, Wind Runner, and Gray Wing (imo), these are characters that, while they were show with the names "Shadow", "River", and "Wind", that was one canon appearance, and I think another appearance that was being told as a story. Long Shadows was also published long before Dawn of the Clans... heck, I think they hadn't even fully confirmed Omen of the Stars at that time, if I can remember properly... While this would work in some cases, these characters are much more well-known as the names given in Dawn of the Clans. Kate also refers to these characters by their more well-known name, not the ones given previously.

Well I definitely agree that Gray Wing needs to be renamed... He was /never/ Graywing or Graystar. 03:25, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

Honestly, yes, they need to be renamed. I had no idea they were even the same cats at first — I thought they changed the entire mythology of Warriors and added new cats. I only knew they were the same until I scrolled down and looked at the names and even then, I was still confused. It makes no sense to have the names they do now, since they've only been called that like...2 or 3 times? <span style="">12:26 Sat Sep 12

ill be for this if their names havent changed after mfv, but gray wing should be renamed now. i mean if he somehow changes that in starclan then we can just rename it again. HotTeacher69 (talk) 19:13, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

True honestly. All Gray Wing is known is is Gray Wing not Graywing. I asked Appledash about this as I was looking over his page and suddenly noticed this. 15:47, September 15, 2015 (UTC)

From the information I see, Gray Wing lived and died as Gray Wing, but was remembered forever as Graywing the wise. I think when they said he was once leader, they mean leader of an Early Settler group. Since he was a huge influence to the early settlers and had foster kits, kin and friends in all groups they all made sure he was remembered. 22:52, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Nettlebreeze ~ Silver Nomination
Idk nobody nominated him so I guess I'll do it. Comments? 06:53, September 13, 2015 (UTC)

A lot of it needs more of the context as to whats happening; im seeing a lot of 'later's. HotTeacher69 (talk) 14:15, September 13, 2015 (UTC)

Updated 08:21, September 15, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 23:50, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Marshscar
Should we remove Marshscar's status as leader? He's never actually seen as a leader. Sure, you can assume because he was deputy, but Mudclaw was deputy and he never got to be leader. Should we remove it? 10:20, September 14, 2015 (UTC)

I think around the end he was looked at as leader by all the Clans. I'll have to double check though. 21:50, September 14, 2015 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Marshscar's leader had died, and that automatically makes him leader by proxy, even without a name.

mudclaw was removed as deputy right before tallstar died, anyway. its not the same case. a similar case is brightwhisker, who is considered leader even before she gets her name. HotTeacher69 (talk) 15:33, September 16, 2015 (UTC)

Character Template
Alright, so we all know the ongoing issue with the character template, right? It's not showing up right for some, but correct for others. Basically, it's full of outdated and expired coding, complicated statements that are probably unnecessary, and tbh could probably be formatted better due to us constantly deciding to add/remove fields- some sections could use some expansion in their width or height as well. Tribe names are infamous for this- the entire name doesn't properly show up if it's too long, and don't even get me started on having to put "Teller of the Pointed Stones" (with or without 'Stoneteller' at the end of it). I would like to propose a revamp or even a restyle on the character template to make it a bit more functional and easier to fit all of the information. I had a basic thing here and then there was other examples here and in the general history of the page, but I couldn't get some of the sections to show up properly... but yeah, I'd really like to eventually redo and/or tweak this template so it actually works for everyone.

I'd prefer to keep the blue colour, but these still look great! Can you put more on one of the examples as I'd like to see what a full template looks like if you don't mind. ^^ I think you just add age, cause of death, deputy/leader/medicine cat positions and book appearances. Maybe do a Firestar example? He has the biggest template. 21:23, September 16, 2015 (UTC)

Honestly thoat template does need an update. It's extremely hard to create the thing on different pages because I end up having to jump back and forth between articles to work out the long field names and how everything should be put in, etc.. Plus, as you've pointed out Jayce, the size of different parts just don't work for some pages. Family and education parts sometimes screw up and put different names on different lines and stuff.

I really like the colour scheme on the second one, but I think instead of having rounded boxes we should stick with the rectangle/square thing (or maybe try playing around with the padding; rounded edges have never really worked for me). I agree with an example, but probably not Firestar, because that is a very big Charcat. Perhaps you could try Cloudtail or even Gray Wing, since we've had trouble with his family section before? <span style="">05:08 Sat Sep 19

Flashnose ~ Silver Nomination
Best main quote ever! 05:26, September 17, 2015 (UTC)

Translated Names
This topic was brought up a long time ago, but then it sort of went dead so I figured I'd bring it up again. Basically, I propose the translations of each character's names to be added in a new section in their article, each cited from the other translated books. I think it would be pretty interesting to see the different languages of each character's names on their articles. Comments? 11:32, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Warriors Translations has a list for major characters, and the other language wiki's have been adding links to their pages on our pages (which is a great idea by the way). I think it will be interesting, but I'm not sure if there's much worth tbh. 22:55, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Harepounce ~ Silver Nomination
* Cries* such a great mother. Comments? 23:25, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Rabbitleap (TC) ~ Silver Nomination
His and his brother name is strangely similar to two different siblings. :/ should we add that to their trivia? 00:26, September 19, 2015 (UTC)

Bright Stream's Kits
Around the end of Path of Stars, Clear Sky's and Bright Stream's kits make an appearance in StarClan. Does this make an official count that Bright Stream and Clear Sky did have kits together? I honestly think so. 04:15, September 19, 2015 (UTC)