Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Official Art
Apologies if the discussion has already been made in the past, but I really believe that we should account for the official art in this project. I mean, the official art was made for a reason. It's the publisher/artist's depiction of the character (and it's technically part of the book, so it should have some sort of canonicity). If the art is inconsistent with the book descriptions I think it should warrant an alt.

Thoughts? I was originally going to post this under the PC discussion but I found that it was more related to PCA.

Ive actually always wondered why we don't do alts for characters shown differently from their written descriptions. Especially when some of them are portrayed incorrectly consistently (Firestar being shown as solid most times despite being confirmed as a tabby especially). 18:51 Fri Aug 17

Wasn't there an alt for Bluestar based on her BP art at some point? Or am I just misremembering things?

Anyways, I do agree that the official art should be accounted for in PCA. However, things could get a little messy on deciding which characters to tweak/redo and which characters to give alts to. So, honestly, I think we should make alts for all characters that have official art, unless the official art and the pixels are similar enough. If anyone wants to expand on my idea or point out its flaws, feel free to. 00:32, August 18, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Branch^^ The German wiki does that as well - makes alts for how characters appear in official artwork. After all, it is officially released material, just like the books. 19:26, August 18, 2018 (UTC)

I think Branch's idea is plausible. It doesn't make sense to completely ignore the official artwork as if it weren't there. I think it should apply to book covers as well.

Just being hypothetical here, but why not keep the art we have and replace it with the official art as charart? 12:19, August 19, 2018 (UTC)

At one point we made alts for official art. If we want to do that again I don't believe we actually deleted the images? We can use put them back in the page, probably with a toggle. 16:30 Mon Aug 20 2018

The main problem with outright replacing charart with official art is that most of the official art doesn't accurately reflect book descriptions. I think we should make a toggle, as Raelic suggested.

Honestly a toggle for the charart/written descriptions and the official art is probably the best idea. Especially for characters who are very constantly showned in a way that differs from in-book descriptions. 14:25 Tue Aug 21

So then what would the toggle for the main image be? I imagine the alt would be "according to official artwork," but what about the other? 16:09, August 22, 2018 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the main would be the in-book/written descriptions like it already is. 17:27 Wed Aug 22

Any other comments? We do not have a lot of opinions... I would like to hear more thoughts from more people before we conclude this. 20:23, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with the concept of adding a toggle to the charart section for official art. Several users have complained about how our chararts don't match the official art, and this way it appeases both sides: an official depiction and an artistic depiction based on the character's official description.  SPO OKY FI RE  00:36, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

I agree we should have a toggle - we could just have the toggle called "Artistic design" and "Official design" or something of the like. 00:38, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

I originally thought that it would be a good idea to list at least one of the official artwork pieces in the charcat toggle as well, perhaps replacing the charart, but I do not know what the rest of you think. If that is an unpopular opinion, what about the portrayals? Sometimes they are very inconsistent - for example, Firestar is portrayed rather differently in various covers - he has no stripes in some, stripes in some, a white muzzle in another, and is different shades of ginger in all portrayals. Jayfeather is portrayed without pupils in The Ultimate Guide, but has pupils in Eclipse and The Sight. Bramblestar is portrayed with a pale chest in his manga appearances, and his coloring is different in the cover appearances as well. Lionblaze has several different colorings as well, and he is portrayed with a literal mane at the end of Crowfeather's Trial. Leafpool looks completely different on both The Forgotten Warrior and Twilight, and I could go on. But basically, tl;dr, there are so many inconsistencies in the official art. What do we use? Do we use actual pixel art for the toggles, the covers for the toggles, which designs do we decide on? 00:55, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps we could use the most recent portrayal (for example Firestar in The Last Hope (?)). It kind of makes sense, after all.

I think we should use the Ultimate Guide for the main official art. It is fairly recent and it is a comprehensive source for all of the important characters in Warriors. After all, it is called the Ultimate Guide. :)  SPO OKY FI RE  16:03, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

I'm all for to have a toggle for official artwork chararts. I like Hawkey's idea to use the Ultimate Guide. It seems like a safe base line to use. And are we doing this for all blanks (kit, apprentice, warrior etc) for each character shown with an official artwork, or just the "main" blank, such as Firestar's leader image since he's mostly known as the leader of ThunderClan idk. 20:47, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

I think we could do official artwork chararts for the ranks they were shown in. For example Into the Wild shows Firestar as an apprentice so he should get an apprentice image based on the official artwork. And as for replacing existing charart I don't think it should be done because the official art doesn't reflect how the character's appearance is described in the books.

On a side note too I think "artistic design" is misleading because it sounds like it's a fan's own interpretation of the character without evidence from the book. I think a more fitting name for the toggle would be something like "in-book description" vs "official depiction". And a problem with doing chararts for official art on the new book covers is that the lighting is very tinted. It'd be impossible to accurately colorpick off of those. Perhaps we should just have a toggle for the actual official art and the charart?

I agree with Fox. My vote is to do a toggle between the official art and the charart, but not alter the chararts to look like the official art.  SPO OKY FI RE  14:30, October 22, 2018 (UTC)

I guess the main question now is whether we should make new chararts with patterns the same as the official art. Now that I think about it, if we have a toggle with the official depiction won't it be sort of pointless to make new chararts?

pixels for matching the official art would be pointless. people can just refer to the official art if they want to see how it is canonically. and no, we shouldn't alter our chararts to match the official art, because that's also pretty pointless. 20:17, October 26, 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. Though by the same vein, I think we should also remove alts regarding manga art because readers can just refer to that too.

A toggle with official art and chararts sounds like a good idea to me. Not in favor of making new chararts to match the official art, as skt explained above.

23:03, November 12, 2018 (UTC)

Any more thoughts on this? We seem to have a mix of valid opinions here. It seems the consensus as of now (please correct me if I am misinterpreting anything) is to have a toggle (or something related) between the actual official images presented on the covers/artwork and the in-book description character art that we create, and to not create new artwork since the designs would be shown in the toggle. This consensus sounds like something for PC now, but anything else? 03:56, November 24, 2018 (UTC)

Tribe Of Endless Hunting Blank
I'm going to put this straight: we should have a Tribe of Endless Hunting blank. I don't see why we don't. Darkshadowthe1 (talk) 22:23, October 16, 2018 (UTC)

I second this. If we have a StarClan blank, which is parallel to the concept of the Tribe of Endless Hunting, we should give it a blank also.  SPO OKY FI RE  23:41, October 16, 2018 (UTC)

I believe the reason we have StarClan blanks and not TEH blanks is because StarClan cats do not keep their rank when they join StarClan, while TEH cats do. I cound be wrong, though. 03:40, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Blue, they don't need blanks. They keep their ranks when they die. Minkclaw Winter is coming. 04:02, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

What do you mean, they keep their ranks? They are still cave guards and prey hunters? It is the same with StarClan cats. However, it has been a while since I read Moonrise/Outcast/Sign of the Moon, so my memory is not fresh. 11:38, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

Is there any confirmation that TEH cats keep their ranks? If there is, we could still have the blank and put a note saying that Example Where Examples Exist is still a caveguard in TEH. Darkshadowthe1 (talk) 12:18, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

Agreeing with Icy, while they do keep their ranks, StarClan cats do too, so it's a kinda moot point. Since it's basically the same case, I don't see why they can't get a blank (though idk if we have enough tribe kits for the separate kit blank thing) 13:21, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

I see no reason why TEH couldn't get blanks of their own. If StarClan also keeps its previous ranks after death but we don't allow a Tribe one for the same reason, why bother even having a StarClan blank?

14:04, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

Agreeing here, I know we've had a lot of blanks, but this one really makes sense Malina457 (talk) 00:04, October 19, 2018 (UTC)

I always wanted to say this, but when I got to this page, I forgot :P but I agree~RAR =^.,.^= Im spoopy kittan! 23:58, October 20, 2018 (UTC)

Haven't read the books in a long time but wasn't it said that StarClan had no hierarchy? That kind of implies that they lost their ranks so they're basically an entire new group on its own? In contrast cats in the Tribe of Endless Hunting keep their rank so wouldn't TEH not be a new rank?

Yes, Fox, that's why StarClan gets their own blanks. They don't have a set hierarchy and they (in most cases) all have equal say. We don't know anywhere near enough about the Tribe of Endless Hunting to actually make a proper judgement on them getting blanks. It would be an assumption to say that they operate like StarClan. While StarClan cats keep their names, they are all equal after they die. ​​​​​

I think they should have some sort of blank. Vicky's response for TEH and StarClan keeping ranks is kinda vague and can kinda go off interpretation, tbh. She says that both StarClan and TEH appear in their respective afterlives in the form they were most happiest in, hence why not all wounds are healed in StarClan. I think there should be some sort of blank to signify their afgterlife, since TEH is significant in the series and is very clearly a rank for the cats. 23:08, October 28, 2018 (UTC)

Echo's right, TEH is a rank of its own and needs to be signified with a blank. Nothing has is canon about their rank system, so we can assume it works like StarClan. We don't know exactly how StarClan works either.  SPO OKY FI RE  00:17, October 29, 2018 (UTC)

I'm all for it. 00:19, October 29, 2018 (UTC)

I mean considering StarClan appears way more than TEH, assumptions shouldn't be made. Minkclaw Winter is coming. 00:43, October 29, 2018 (UTC)

Earlier, you made an assumption that TEH cats keep their ranks when they die, but you don't have any direct proof to back up your claims. If you know information that we don't, then please inform us. Therefore, given the information we know about TEH and how they interact with the Tribe, it makes sense that we can compare them to StarClan.  SPO OKY FI RE  00:56, October 29, 2018 (UTC)

Both StarClan and TEH are very vague afterlifes in which the reader mostly has to go off assumption. There's no hierarchy in StarClan, but their ranks are very clearly acknowledged. Medicine cats are still considered medicine cats and while leaders aren't leaders of StarClan, their leadership is still heavily acknowledged. The two instaces we know of TEH are Feathertail and Half Moon, and Half Moon gives up her name of Stoneteller when she joins StarClan/TEH since she's only referred as Stoneteller in DOTC when she is alive. I heavily vouch for TEH blanks, it seems unfair to acknowledge StarClan and not TEH and we have two cats that are in both afterlives. We don't gotta do the blanks immediately since I know other blanks are being put forth first, but I do heavily think we should make TEH blanks, if just to acknowledge the existence of it. 02:07, October 30, 2018 (UTC)

Any other comments?

23:03, November 12, 2018 (UTC)

Vote here. 03:05, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

Join Request
Hi! I hope there's still availability in me joining this project. I've been experiencing around in GIMP too. 15:04, November 24, 2018 (UTC)

I'll add you in as a kit. Please read the guidelines before participating. Welcome to the project! 16:34, November 24, 2018 (UTC)

Unknown Residence Blank
Are we changing the meaning of this blank to apply to everyone, then? Because when we made these blanks, they were originally only meant for the ghost cats/purgatory cats from A Vision of Shadows (including more recently: Pebbleshine and Ashfoot). We need to have that discussion before anything is posted on the approval page, because the blanks as we currently have them don't apply to anything other than the ghost cats (which we'll need to change the file names for those ANYWAYS, depending on the outcome here), so if we start making them for characters like Jake, Ravenpaw, ect, we'll need to officially change the intent behind these blanks. ​​

I honestly didn't originally know that they were solely for the AVoS ghosts, I saw Riin reserve one and figured they were meant for other characters as well. I don't see why they couldn't have the intent for other characters. They are named Unknown Residence and since Jake, Scourge, etc. have the affiliation of that it would make sense to give them that as well. Minkclaw Winter is coming. 04:09, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

That's my bad for reserving early, whoops. But I do agree they should be considered "unknown residence" as well. 04:11, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

I'm personally of the mindset that the unknown residence blanks should be reserved for any unknown afterlife. The blanks were created because the "rank" holds significance like StarClan and the Dark Forest. It's a destination. Cat purgatory. A place for good kittypets. All afterlives. Neither StarClan or Dark Forest, but somewhere present and mingling around. As for the actual "unknown residence" cats...I don't think they should have this blank. For the infobox, I'm all for it. But as a rank, I disagree. The thing with an "unknown residence" is just that. It's unknown. We don't know where the cat ended up. They died, but they didn't end up in StarClan, the Dark Forest, or some form of alternative afterlife. No one knows, hence why it's "unknown".

However, some of them, such as Tom, Jake and maybe Ravenpaw (might have to look at the cite closely), could have this blank imo. They've been confirmed with the cites (again, might have to double check) to be present in some sort of afterlife. I think for the sanity of creating blanks with one or two cats in it, those three aforementioned should get the "unknown residence blank". Cats like Tigerstar, Spottedleaf, and Scourge should not have one since they just died (again) and went nowhere...somewhere unknown even to the authors. That's just my interpretation.

tl;dr cats who have been confirmed to be in some sort of afterlife that's not StarClan or the Dark Forest, should get it, but cats who died and the authors have confirmed they have no died and don't know where they went, should not get it. 04:23, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

use the blanks for both, just rename purgatory cats to ghost.png. 04:25, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

I don't think Jake and Ravenpaw and them should have these blanks... I think they were meant solely for the cats who were stuck between the real world and the afterlife. Not knowing a cat's residence vs. a cat actually being described with no true residence are completely different things. So I think they should just be for the ghost cats.  JOLLY  FIRE  06:00, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

Scourge is the only cat to be confirmed not in any official residence I think, (though Vicky's comment was incredibly vague) while, Ravenpaw and Tom have been confirmed to be in an else where residency. To expand on my comment from before, I believe cats with unknown residencies should get the blank since StarClan, the DF and soon Endless Hunting will have afterlife blanks, I think it'd be fair to give cats with a confirmed sort of afterlife blanks as well. I agree with David's idea of just renaming the files/titles but using the blanks for both, since they're all described to be in some form of afterlife. 06:19, November 25, 2018 (UTC)