Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Template for redirect
Looking at redirect pages, there is no consistency with the way they are written. To be professional, I believe that we should have a template, or at least a guide, to write redirects so that they are all consistent with one another. 14:13, May 17, 2018 (UTC)

I agree^^ I'd think a template could be made for this fairly easily, but we could also do a guide. Consistency ftw

A guide is a nice idea.

Any more comments? 02:15, May 28, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with a guide, but what our (idk how to phrase this) guidelines for being consistent? (hooray for unexplainable ideas)

This has gone long without comments. Shall we get to using this guide? 22:52, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

definitely, let’s do this.

Okay, so this has gone a long period of time without any comments so. . . how are we going to implement this?

Yes. We can go with Spooky's template. 19:22, August 21, 2018 (UTC)

Summaries (Again)
I would really like some comments on this, whether you disagree or agree, because this just keeps getting archived with no clear conclusion. Can we please discuss writing some summaries, after a cat's description? Say someone does not want to read the entire history, just wants a quick snippet of the character - can we work for each major character, and each supporting one, a little overview of what their personality is, their events in the book, etc? 03:16, May 21, 2018 (UTC)

Until we can chop down on PC's concerns list more, I personally have to disagree. While it's a nice idea that would totally work in the future, I don't think we should start a project of this caliber when we already have so much to do - and to divide the attention of those few writing sections consistently - would only intensify the problem of falling behind on histories. I'd be in support of this idea probably around... the gap after AVoS because we'll most likely have a break then, since it is a good concept, but it's one I don't believe we have the capaility to see all the way through right now.

Your point is valid, which is why I am not suggesting we do all of it at once. It is just an option to have so if by chance anyone wants to do a quick summary, the option is available as PC would have agreed on it. 12:04, May 21, 2018 (UTC)

This is a great idea.

Any more comments? 02:21, May 28, 2018 (UTC)

I actually disagree with Spooky; I am strongly in support of writing character summaries. If anything, I think that being behind on articles might be even more of a reason to write article summaries; there are a lot of major characters like Violetshine or Windstar which have sections of their histories that are understandably not filled in because they appear so many times. I think that, especially since the histories are incomplete, a short summary for these major characters would be good so that readers know what they did in the series. Often the most important characters don't have their book histories written because they do so much in the book that it takes a long time to write, but if I have the same idea of a summary as Icy does, then these summaries could be written relatively quickly. Also, to be honest, I think it will be a long time before all of the detailed histories are finished for all the characters, so I don't think we should wait until they are all completed. 18:56 Wed Jun 13

Any more comments?

I don't have much to add to this other than that I like this idea and if we're not doing it all at once, then I think it's possible.

03:00, July 18, 2018 (UTC)

I'd be fine with adding these to articles... but the history itself should take first priority. Although maybe in doing this, we could also find those articles with sections that still need to be done. I know we have a stub category, but that isn't always used on articles. ​

If there are no comments within a few days, we should start implementing this. 22:52, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

An idea is that to start implementing the character summaries, we can use the FA's (and update them if necessary) of characters who have been featured and use those as the summaries, since the FAs are basically summaries of the character. 16:29 Thu Aug 16

Beetlewhisker
Beetlewhisker does not have his AVOS sections listed on his article, and although he did die, it is still his article and is still the same character, mistake or not. Should he not have those sections listed? He still appears - and Heavystep has his appearances as well, despite dying. 00:42, June 14, 2018 (UTC)

I think we should list them for both characters, since we kept Rippletail's appearance in TS despite it being contradicted.

A mistake is a mistake, and Kate herself has even said more than once that these appearances are mistakes for Beetlewhisker. I'm sorry, but I feel we should not be documenting mistakes on in the history sections, as we do not document mistakes for the infoboxes up top.

Then there should be a page or a section somewhere that details Beetlewhisker’s appearances because omitting him is omitting information. 21:11, June 16, 2018 (UTC)

maybe you could add another subsection the mistakes page that has detailed errors like this? like "detailed character errors" or something thats beyond the usual pelt error colours. 21:18, June 16, 2018 (UTC)

hmm yeah I like that idea^^ cats like Rippletail do need a section to detail said error imo, because for his in particular, he played a decent role even though it wasn't supposed to happen

Any more comments?

I feel the agreement is to include it in a separate section, or at least include it in general...should we make a subpage? Something like "Beetlewhisker/Appearance Errors" and then document when he appears post-The Last Hope? Given he's not just allegiance only, has an apprentice, and was confirmed to be the same Beetlewhisker by Kate.

I was scrolling on Riordan wiki and noticed |this at the top of Apollo's page, how they have a template that separates his greek and roman forms. Perhaps we could do something like that for Beetlewhisker? Keep everything on one page and make another page for his history errors, while having something at the top of the page to direct us easily between the two. 03:00, July 18, 2018 (UTC)

that could definitely work, and this could easily be used on Rippletail as well.

I agree^^ And we can code a similar switch to that as well, it's not that hard to make. 11:17, August 22, 2018 (UTC)

Unknown Residences
Hi everyone, sorry for this.

Should Jake and the other cats - not Clan cats - such as Tom and other cats who were said to walk in some sort of skies - have their own status? Perhaps a genuine "unknown residence". 01:49, June 14, 2018 (UTC)

I would agree with it, because it's not right to ignore that they are walking in some sort of skies. even if they don't get a blank for it, they should have some sort of listing. (and maybe change needletail and such to ghost in affies too to avoid confusion.) 01:51, June 14, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with them getting their own status. They're not StarClan, they're not the Dark Forest, they are their own and it is confirmed that they walk a different path, I see no reason why they wouldn't call for their own place.

03:37, June 17, 2018 (UTC)

Agreed^^ It's not the same as that other ghost place, nor our usual residences, so they could be listed all on their own^

Any more comments? 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​

A bit delayed, but listing them as their own place makes perfect sense to me. With the exception of Scourge, since I think it was confirmed that he went nowhere after he died and he just poofed (kinda like the cats who were killed in StarClan and the Dark Forest; Spottedleaf and Tigerstar, for example). For cats like Jake and Tom, I'd say listing that as an actual residence would work for me. Just one question though: would this warrant an article, or just a mention in the infobox? ​

It is a place where dead cats hang out, similar to StarClan and the DF, but I don't think there's enough info on it to warrant an article. A mention in the infobox would suffice, and also a blank (but that's for PCA to decide) 05:45, 7/08/2018 ​

So are we agreed to list it in the infobox and whatnot? But not to create a page itself for it? Because that's fine with me, as I was only just asking (since chances are people will try and make pages in the future). Also, is there a full list of all of the cats this would apply to? I know of Jake, Tom, and Scourge. Are there any others we're missing? ​

I think Princess was confirmed to be dead iirc? 23:19, 7/15/2018 ​

I'm not sure, but I thought this was for cats who had a confirmed afterlife residence, not just the deceased ones? Unless my wires are crossed here. ​

I think this should be applied to cats who have been confirmed to be in an afterlife. I don't think Princess has been, so I don't think she'd count.

03:00, July 18, 2018 (UTC)

Was Shanty confirmed to have an afterlife? I think it might be kind of borderline, since he was grieving, but Pinestar claimed to have felt her presence and heard her voice when he becomes a kittypet. Then there's Mole and Ravenpaw, who were also said to have residences outside StarClan, but were visiting during the leader ceremonies where they appeared.RageSnake (talk) 16:58, August 22, 2018 (UTC)

Not sure about Shanty, but Ravenpaw I'm not so sure, since he was both confirmed to be in StarClan and not really in StarClan. . . or am I being an idiot. Regardless, Ravenpaw would get it. As for Mole, I'm not sure, I'd need to reread TR.

Silverstream
Is there a particular reason that Silverstream is listed as "silver-gray", and the "silver tabby" mention a mistake? I'm going through her edit history and I can't seem to find any reason why. She's called a silver tabby in the allegiances for Fire and Ice, Forest of Secrets, and she's also called a silver tabby in The Last Hope. If we typically go with first mentions, shouldn't she be a silver tabby, not a silver-gray tabby, since they are two different things? Or at least take it to PC to alter her base, considering she's said to be the palest of her littermates, and she's also said to be just like her mother, Willowbreeze, (Crookedstar's Promise, 468) and share the same markings on her head. (page 491)

tldr; I think we need to alter Silverstream's description to match what's stated more frequently a little more. Willowbreeze is cited pale, Silverstream is called a silver tabby multiple times throughout multiple books, and she's said to be just like her mother.

If she is mentioned to be a silver tabby more than silver-gray, then she should be a silver tabby since that over rules the latter. I'd think she would be tweaked to have the same markings as Willowbreeze on her head. As for the rest of of her, I'm not sure, as "just like" could be referring to multiple things. 03:37, June 17, 2018 (UTC)

Especially since silver tabby is the first mention and is backed up by other mentions, it'd definitely need to be that imo. For tweaking, I agree with Patch^^

Another thing we might discuss is the "black" in her description. I believe it was only mentioned once or twice in the first series and since then she has been described as silver or silvery-grey, iirc. Silver-gray tabby kinda contradicts the black in her coat, as does pale, since to me that seems to be calling her a light gray tabby that looks silvery more than anything. 21:47 Tue Jun 19 2018

Any more comments?

So if we go by mentions, "silver tabby" outranks "silver-gray/silvery-gray". As Breezey said, silver-gray contradicts the black that a silver tabby would have.. but given she's called a silver tabby far more often and spanning across multiple years of publication, should we change her description to "silver tabby"? The only thing I'd ask PCA to change in terms of stripes are her head stripes, since that's confirmed to be just like Willowbreeze. Her stripes/base pelt can also be altered at the same time if they need to be, once this is over. Could I have any other comments, please?

if she's called a silver tabby more, then that overrides the silver-gray cite. she should be altered to match the silver tabby descriptions. her head stripes can easily be changed.

Friends, Personality, Importance
So we were talking about an incident that occurred, and about topics that people have discussed. I'll get to the most difficult to do first. Personality would be a hard one. It would give a clearer description of the character, but then there would be the problem of character differences based on opinion. As someone might see Ashfur as misunderstood, while the other person might see him as pure evil. I am just bringing this up in case anyone else has better ideas. The second is important events in the character's lives. We could have a bullet list that goes in time line order of whatever happens. "_____ got injured gravely", or "_______ lost their father in this battle" we could gives references, then if readers want to see a more detailed version, they can retreat to the book summaries. The last thing on my list in of friends and enemies. We would add a section to the the chracter template telling who is friends and enemies with that character. Like Leafpool and Sorreltail or Hawkwing and Darktail. We could even add romantic interests. Thats all I have! Sorry for this long essay lmao. 21:26, August 10, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with this. I've wanted this for a long time and I think it would help articles in the longrun 23:49, August 10, 2018 (UTC)

I actually do love this idea. I give it a thumbs up. 00:17, August 11, 2018 (UTC)

As I’ve seen on other wikis, we could have a ‘Personality and traits’ section, which would work very well. For the importance idea, however, we already passed the character summary thing like last month, so we can implement that and that’ll solve the Importance issue. We do only need one or the other, because it will be redundant otherwise. 00:27, August 11, 2018 (UTC)

I was also thinking of something like this (That and kind of everything below it). It might add some depth to the page. Thoughts?. I also agree with Spooky. We don't need anything redundant. 00:32, August 11, 2018 (UTC)

I have an issue with the personality section, though. Some of the characters really do not have personalities (or mentioned out right) - and other characters, who can be biased, talk about them. Also, readers have different views too. So how would we work the personality version? And how exactly would we know who their friends and enemies are, if it's not stated in the book? 01:46, August 11, 2018 (UTC)

I mean, something like "Relationships" could work for that, Icy, which would include both friends/enemies. Who they are would be obvious enough. Personality should be written as what's described in the book. Nothing biased or anything. 01:54, August 11, 2018 (UTC)

I think having relationships and personality sections is a wonderful idea. It'll give wikigoers a sense of what the cat is like and who their friends and enemies are without having to read through their entire history for this information. Aandydandy (talk) 18:47, August 11, 2018 (UTC)

I think adding a personality/platonic relations section would be very difficult to keep unbiased. Is Firestar brave and compassionate or overbearing and nosy? Is Squirreflight annoying and bossy or proud and brash? Were Leafpool and Sorreltail practically dating in the second arc or just good friends?

I think the quotes section of character pages should do this. It shows notable and more importantly citable conversations characters have had between each other, what the character themselves say and think, and what others have said about them and overall SHOULD be the place you go for cited platonic character interactions. It's already there, just maybe it could use some work. 21:16, August 11, 2018 (UTC)

Friends/enemies sound great, and so does personality, but where would we put it? We shouldn't really place it below the history, that would be annoying. Also how would we state the personality in a way that doesn't sound biased? 21:45, 8/11/2018 ​

I think we'd be able to state it in a non-biased way, Star. We could say that "[insert character name] has been called [traits] by [other character/s]" and back it up with a citation. For example, we could say that "Rock has called Lionblaze a brave fighter and compared his skills to that of Tigerstar." with the cite being from Cats of the Clans. It's unbiased and backed up by a direct statement from one of the books. ​

More or less what I had in mind might be something like this, for several reasons. While we do want to include a lot of this information, another issue that's been mentioned by a lot of people through social media is how long these pages get. In sight of that, we could incorporate the character summaries for the top of the page, as is discussed above, which solves the importance issue and summarizes their life as a whole. Next would be a personality and traits section. Having modeled that part after another wiki, it's meant to serve to have the 'traits' as the physical description of the character, and allows for additional explanations. Conversely, to back up Skye's points, who the character is as a cat is put here. Traits such as brave and strong, things included in their field guide and ceremony mentions would go here, as well as their relationships with other characters and how they were friends. Bundling all that under one includes what we need, but cuts down on the sheer amount of sections. And, if she had had any official artworks, they'd be listed just under the charcat gallery. Thoughts? 02:09, August 12, 2018 (UTC)

That definitely works, and I like that idea. Makes it so users don't have to scroll every which way just to find something. Short, sweet, and to the point. 00:23, 8/14/2018 ​

I like Spooky's idea, but I think the appearance (allegiance one at least) could be listed at the beginning because it's emphasized a lot in the series.

All right. I just think that when this needs to be put into place, we need to be very careful about how we write the personality section so it does not come off as bias. And how do we determine which characters get sections like these and which characters we leave alone? Because we cannot add these to all pages, there are so many minor characters in the series that it is simply impossible to add their personality. 07:11, August 18, 2018 (UTC)

I was thinking that we could use references from the book, but include which character said that about them. Warrior ceremonies could be of good use for this, as the leader usually says good traits about them, like bravery or loyalty. Anyways, we could state “____ has been called ___ and ___ by ____.” Just my idea. so for example Squirrelflight could be said like this, “Squirrelflight has been called annoying as an apprentice by Bramblestar,(cite) but becomes more fiery as a warrior(cite).” Just my opinion though ^^ 13:18, August 18, 2018 (UTC)

All the POV characters and their secondary characters would have personalities written(eg. Firestar is a POV and Sandstorm and Greystripe were secondary). Any other characters that aren't often around that have shown any type of "personality"(in border interactions, gathering interactions, etc.) would probably have personality sections albeit much smaller? And cats that have never spoken I suppose wouldn't have anything at all. Aandydandy (talk) 20:38, August 18, 2018 (UTC)

Comments? 19:18, August 21, 2018 (UTC)

Character Descriptions
I might be a bit petty with this but with adding every verb used with a cat, their beginning descriptions can get a bit grammatically... off. There can be lots of run on sentences and sometimes facts are just put all over the description instead of everything being grouped together.

I've started rewriting some descriptions with Hawkey, but I think there should be a basic formatting for how a character's description is written, something like -


 * (name here) is a (pelt/length descriptions or bodily structure) (basic pelt colours) (gender) with (eye colour). They have (noticeable and specific details/scars/etc or bodily structure). (Or maybe eye colour at the end idk)

An example of this would be changing Bluestar's description that was formerly:


 * Bluestar is a large, lithe, pale blue-gray she-cat with luminous, ice-blue eyes. She has soft, thick, long fur, a broad face, head, and shoulders, with a scar that parts the fur across them, silver hair tinged around her muzzle and her long, sleek tail, and a torn ear.

to


 * Bluestar is a large, lithe, pale blue-gray she-cat with luminous ice-blue eyes. She has thick, long soft fur and a broad face, head and shoulders with a scar that parts the fur across them and a torn ear. She has a silver tinted muzzle a long, sleek tail.

This really might just be me, but the run on sentences and lack of organization is something that's bothered me since it can be such an eye sore to take in a bunch of scattered information at once. Is this just me and is it worth bringing up? 04:02, August 19, 2018 (UTC)

Just as a head's up, we should discuss this first before going and changing all of the articles. There's no point in starting a conversation if you're going to do the work beforehand. =P Also, the Bluestar thing is because it was originally said somewhere that her tail was ALSO silver-tipped, not just her muzzle, and I think it got lost over the years. ​

LOL yeah, I kinda realized while doing it "Hey... I should bring this up" so that's why I came here! And oh, I didn't know that! It probably did get a bit lost over time. 04:06, August 19, 2018 (UTC)

I definitely agree with Echo here in that the descriptions are hard to read due to the way they are structured (or lack thereof) and could even be described as "rambling" for some of the characters. As long as we group the correct information together and keep all of the important details, I feel like this would really improve the appearance of the character articles overall since the description is usually the first thing people read.  HA WK FI RE98  22:13, August 19, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with what's been said above, but I also definitely remember this being brought up before and passing. I'm pretty sure we're allowed to split them at will due to that past consensus, as quite a lot have been already, and the rambling ones still left were just ones that slipped through. 11:23, August 22, 2018 (UTC)

Beenose
Bringing this here from her talk page so it doesn't die, because it's very valid points. Basically copying that person's argument, kudos to them for noticing.

Yes, Kate said that she died of yellowcough. In that same cite, however, she says Slatekit dies and yet we all know Slatefur is definitely alive as of River of Fire, and we've since revoked the yellow cough death cite.

With evidence, I think we should do the same here. The books show that she had yellow cough, and that Violetpaw didn't notice her among the rogues... but it doesn't say she died. Puddleshine or someone could've saved her between Thunder and Shadow and Shattered Sky, but she's listed in SS's allegiances and said to die by drowning. She's also mentioned to have left the Kin in SS. Who's to say the drowning wasn't her canon death, as is stated in the Tigerheart's Shadow manga?

tl;dr of all of that - we have a cite that says she died from yellowcough for her and slatefur, but slatekit clearly lived and per kate, part of Tigerheart's patrol. so, if we don't use it for slatekit, why use it for beenose when she's mentioned to be alive after that and has a different cause of death clearly stated? I think we should nuke it and list as a mistake, with her TS one as the death cause. 00:29, August 21, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I think with how Slatefur's page is treating Kate's statement as incorrect yet Beenose's is treating it as correct, what is stated in Tigerheart's Shadow should be listed as the correct information and Kate's as a mistake. Aandydandy (talk) 01:12, August 21, 2018 (UTC)

yeah I think at this stage the drowned death is the correct one. 20:05, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

Blaze ~ Silver Nomination
Written by Broken, I haven't really touched it, save for adding a dialogue piece and quote. 18:05, August 21, 2018 (UTC)

Comments before vote? 22:02, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

Author statements
Short but simple. I think that we should have a trivia section that splits up into mistakes, interesting facts, but also author statements. 22:02, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

Left behind Elders in Dawn died of starvation
I hope this is the right place to bring this up. It's about Loudbelly, Shadepelt, Frostfur and Speckletail. In their article it says, that they died of starvation. Now I had a look into the Erin Hunter Chat 6, where it is supposed to say so, but it doesn't state it there. The question is there, but the authors say that they either were crushed by the monsters, went to be kittypets or died in RiverClan-camp. Here is the question and the two answers and here is the archived EH Chat 6 if you want to look for yourself. Could the "starvation" thing be removed and the statements be added to the trivia maybe? 08:00, September 1, 2018 (UTC)