Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Something Fun
For once, Shelly has an idea that can be construed as a way to make the project more fun. Hooray!

This would just be for fun, to add a friendly competition to charart making. Since PC, PB, and PW get to have features on the front page every month, why don't we feature a best charart on the front page of PCA every month? For fairness, it can only be a charart made originally or as a redo.

I think a couple of additional rules would be that a person that has a charart win one month would be unable to get nominated for two months afterward. The senior members would make the nominations and the entire project would vote for their favorite.

Features would go on PCA's main page, right below the project news (I think).

How does this sound? 23:34, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

As I said on the chat, I think this is a very good idea. 23:36, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I re-thought this. I don't agree. What if each month, a charart made by one or two users will be nominated every time? I wouldn't find that so fun. Also...Though it is for fun...I just don't think it's very necessary...Sorry. 23:38, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

That's why I added in the rule that once a person wins they have to wait two months before even being nominated again. Of course, we can extend that length of time. And of course it isn't necessary, nothing about this project is. It'd just be a fun way to encourage users to do their best and improve their skills. 23:51, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm...That would work. 23:54, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds fun! Why not? Maple♥ legs  Mischief brewing 00:00, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Spark stands by what she said on the chat. |3 Good idea, Shelly~ Spark  Love me some chocolate~! ♥ 00:02, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds okay, but I had a couple suggestions. Maybe, instead of art being nominated by a user, the OA would put forth their art for consideration and everyone would vote, kinda like the contest. And, though I think you implied this, one charart per user? Where'd the voting be done? And does the charart have to be started and completed in that month, or just started? 00:36, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think we'd do nominations in a forum like the other projects do. And good idea with the self-nominations. And I think a charart will need to be completed to be put up for nomination. 00:42, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

I knew that the charart would have to be completed. I meant within the month, like could it only be a charart started on April 6th and finished April 24th? Scarlet Derp moment 01:01, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

So this is actual chararts displayed on the wiki (ie. I could nominate Whitestorm's Apprentice), not fanfic chararts. Slap me if I'm wrong. Also, what if I originally did an image, and it was later redone by another user, who would get to nominate it? Does it have to be the current version of the image? I like this idea, it will bring more fun to the project. :) I agree with self-nominations. 02:21, 09, 04, 2012

Ah, Scarlet, I think just finished within the month then. And DJ, yeah, only images that go through PCA. So no non-canon stuff. And I doubt any charart you finish would be redone within the month. 02:41, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Honestly I'm not a huge fan of this idea. It sounds fun and all, but I have a feeling it will cause drama, and that's never good. Nice idea, but it may not work out as nicely as you imagine, so I'm gonna say no, I don't agree. Go ahead, shoot me now. 03:46, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

No one is mad that you disagree, Paleclaw. Everyone is inclined to their own opinion. 03:49, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Paleclaw. It's really easy to hurt others feeling with art and it might cause some resentment. I might be wrong, but from what I've seen with PC, PB, and PW, the articles featured are a collaboration of several different users, with edits from contributors and others on the wiki. A charart is really just made by one person, despite the critiques that are given on the image. It doesn't really show what the wiki can do, just what a person can do. Also users might get bitter if their art isn't featured and some of them might decide to cause drama, and like Paleclaw said, that's never a good thing. Breeze whisker  04:11, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

I agree too. To the warriors, apprentices, and kits, their art may or may not be featured as much as SW+, and that might hurt their feelings. Also, I know who's art would mostly be featured, and even though we'd do the two month rule, we'd still have common winners and it might intimate users about their own skill. I know I am when I look on the approvals and tweaks page, and aside from my few good chararts (Crookedstar, Firestar, Mapleshade), I might feel sure about my skills (this is mostly an example using me, but I might feel a little let down if I only had, let's say, one feature during this whole run, and so would other's). I know you guys who agree only have good intentions, but there could be consequences :/ I hope I explained what I meant right. It sounded better in my head lol  20:17, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe to share around the prize to be featured between the different ranks, we could change the theme each month or every two months. For example, one month might have the theme of "The Most Original Art", and the next month might be "The Neatest Shading" or something. (Someone can think of better names then me). Not sure it will quite work though. 02:49, 10, 04, 2012

DJ, that sounds like a really good idea~ *claps* I think that we could maybe go along with DJ's theme idea, and that way every charart would have a shot at being featured. 23:02, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah! I like DJ's idea because thinking about it, it would probably open up to more of the project members, if that makes sense. 03:06, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

It would encourage progress and I think this would be fun. However, it needs to be coordinated exceptionally well as in, there probably would need to be two-three people responsible for doing all this. It would be no good in having this activity fall apart like with the chats. 02:07, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

I'd be happy to volenteer to help out with this mini-project type. We'd need to organise special guidelines for this though. 00:07, 29, 04, 2012

Are we going to do anything with this discussion? It's been sitting here for quite a while without any comments.

Should we set up a vote to see if everyone agrees with this? It seems like a good idea so far. 21:11, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think the vote should be set up. :) This'll be fun! I think. 21:25, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

A Public Apology to *Wildfire* and a Proposal for and Elder Rank
As the heading suggests, I'm here to formally apologize for what I started recently concerning the actions of Wildfire. As many of you know, when Wildfire posted a list of non-contributive users to this talk page, I was the first to decry her actions as over the line and rude. Soon after this, Wildfire was kicked from the project.

We were wrong to do this.

Wildfire, I am so sorry for what I said and what happened. In hindsight, what you did was more than appropriate. You did what the senior warriors should have been doing by checking the contributions of the members of this project and finding those that did not fit our guidelines any more. We should have encouraged you to continue helping with the footwork our senior warriors haven't been doing, and we should not have kicked you from the project.

As such, project bannings should not be considered an option for punishment anymore. They are not enforceable as project membership is not required for project participation.

And furthermore, I'd like to propose yet another rank. One that other projects already use. That'd be the elder rank.

The purpose of the elder rank is simple. When someone starts to become less than contributive, they are added to this rank to remind them to contribute and to remind senior warriors to keep an eye on them. If they're in the rank too long, they're removed from the project.

I think that this would help a bit.

And, again, I sincerely apologize to Wildfire for my own rash actions that led to the rash actions of others. I hope you don't think less of me for it. 20:54, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry as well, Wild. There isn't much I can say that's already been said. I kicked myself (not literally) for booting you from the project, and afterwards, I felt terrible for days.

I feel partially responsible for this, as it was my choice to kick you from the project. I thought it was the right thing to do at the time, and I now realize that it wasn't. I wasn't thinking with my head, and now I realize the error of my ways.

Again, I'm sorry, Wild. We're glad to have you back in PCA, and I swear to StarClan this'll never happen again.

Thank you for doing this, it means alot, but you didn't have to, you believed what you were doing was for the good for the project and I can't blame you for that. You gave me a chance to think about my words and the effects of them, and I needed to do that. Thank you Shelly and Cloudy for doing this though, it really does mean alot. 21:47, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

About the Elder proposal... I think it's an excellent idea. Maybe, when they are added to the rank, a lead can leave the a message to let them know. 16:21, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of the elder rank too. 07:44, 20, 04, 2012

Okay, here are my biases with the elder rank. The elder rank is meant to list people who are inactive reminding them to contribute to the project, however most users who fall inactive don't come back. It's upon a user's own free will to join a project and it's the users responsibility to contribute to the project. Should they not attend to this responsibility, they face the consequences. It shouldn't be the project's responsibility to keep track of the level of activeness from multiple users. I feel that with the Elder's rank, that would make the project, especially senior members, responsible for keeping track of multiple user's activeness. 02:03, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

If a user is inactive, putting them in the elder rank won't help them, so they should just be removed from the membership list. ChanCharm 05:34, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Blueish-gray cats vs. Gray cats
It kinda hurts me to bring this up, but this is a blue cat and this is a gray cat.

We've had this discussion before and Bluestar and all related blue-gray family members were redone so that they were more realistic  14:14, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

The first one doesn't even look like it's blue, honestly.....

Well, the only blueish ca that I really know of is a Russian Blue.. How about this one? 14:35, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

For the record: When talking about animals that are not birds or fish, the word "Blue" refers to gray coloration. Even the russian blue mentioned above is just a shade of gray. 14:42, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I had to hang up early. @ Kitsufox, I know that. @ Ivy Bluestar got alts for being called gray, but since they are basically the same, I don't know if she should. @ Cloudskye, that's my whole point. @ Misty, there are others, like the Nebalung, Korat, and Chartreux, and British shorthairs usually are blue as well. 16:26, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

The current ones are much closer to blue-grey than the old ones were. The blue coloring in those really only shows up when the light is just right, otherwise those cats just look grey. Breeze whisker  03:34, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

I kinda agree. If we're going to be counting gold and ginger as the same thing, Bluestar really shouldn't have alts for being gray. She is gray, in the right light. 16:04, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. I tried to object to when we started giving them plain gray alts, but nobody agreed so I gave up. :P 22:51, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

This is sort of like the gray-light gray alt one shade to the next, they are basically the same thing. So I agree we shouldn't give her the alts. 01:18, 22, 04, 2012

I say that the regular gray alts should go. However, I believe she has one or two alts that I think should stay. I know for a fact her light leader alt that I made should stay because she was mentioned with pale fur, which contradicts her description, and I believe the one where she has a solid stripe on her head would stay too (should double check to make sure)  15:39, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, by the new alt guidelines, being described as light would only be a single shade shift since she isn't described as dark, and wouldn't qualify for an alt. 02:07, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

So she and Mistystar shouldn't have pale gray or dark gray alts. (coughs) And yet people are still making them right now. 15:06, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

And your point? If they're making them, decline them and tell them that it's too close to the original shade. Simple as that.

No. Every time I do something without deferring to the project first, I get accused of working based on my opinion alone and I'm tired of it. So, on this matter, I am attempting to get this matter closed now. Now, can we all agree that blue-gray and gray are basically the same colour as gold and ginger are? And, if so, can we delete Mistystar and Bluestar's light gray or dark gray alts, since they are only a single shade away from their current images? 20:10, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

I don't support it, not do I go against it. However, if that's what the project wants, that's what the project wants. I don't mind either way. Comments, everyone?

I support it. 20:40, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

I don't agree. We should get rid of the gray alts, yes, that's a partial description. But pale gray and dark gray would be more than one shade. They should stay. Pale gray and blue-grey are not the same thing, and it's a big enough difference they should get an alt. Blue-gray is a shade of gray, not the same as plain gray. Going from blue-gray to light or dark grey would be two shades. They should get alts. Just get rid of the plain gray ones. 21:55, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

That's an excellent point, Paleh. I agree with that 100%. 22:06, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree as well. 100% :) 22:08, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Paleh too. Just simply get rid of the plain gray alts. 22:11, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Except, depending on the light, Bluestar can be any shade of gray. In fact, she's only even blue-gray in perfect lighting. In any other light, she'd look just gray, and so I believe we should treat gray and blue-gray as synonyms, but like we treat ginger and golden as synonyms (though, honestly, I don't remember agreeing to that). 01:10, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Uhg. You know what? I'm taking Ivy's stance. You guys do what you want. 01:11, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

We are treating blue-gray and gray as synonyms, but we're treating light or dark gray as something different. As we should. If say, Brackenfur, were described as pale ginger, I do believe he'd get and alt. I don't think we ever agreed ginger and golden were synonyms so much as they're too similar for an alt, as it's golden's just a shade of ginger. Just as blue-gray's a shade of gray. But light or dark gray is a completely different shade, even if it came from the same color. Like plae ginger and golden. 01:42, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

I'm agreeing with Paleh on this, giving it a second thought. Comparing the alts, blue-gray and light-gray are very different, but the plain gray alts should stay. 02:09, 28, 04, 2012

I think that blue-gray and gray are the same thing, but I also think dark-gray is pretty much the same too. Light-gray is completely different though. ChanCharm 07:01, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

No. It's still two shades. If pale gray's different, so is dark gray. 06:16, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Tweak Page Limit
Since the number of users having the ability to tweak/redo images is rising, I think the limit should rise as well, since the project's goal is to create "high quality images" might as well, let them keep flowing. Maybe raise it to 35-40? Any comments? Concerns? 02:54, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Mmm... 30-35 sounds okay to me. :3 04:39, 30, 04, 2012

Hmm, I'd say yes, but... there hasn't really been a problem with the tweak page filling up so far. It's full once in a while, yeah, but it's never been a problem. It might be later, and I'd see the good in expanding the tweak page at that time. But if it comes to a vote, yeah, I'd probably vote to expand the page now. Just putting forth my own hesitant thoughts. 04:46, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, 35 on both sounds good. 04:45 Mon Apr 30

Since the number of tweaks have been piling up. It would be a good way to help get them done. 04:48 Mon Apr 30

I have no qualms with it. Certainly fine by me. In fact, why don't we just make the page limits for both the approval page and tweak page the same, that way we only have to remember one number?

That would be a good idea... It's not too much or too little, so 35 for both of them sounds good in my opinion. 99.111.192.240 19:20, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that was me. >.<  19:21, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, making the same number on both pages would be much easier, and 35 would be right. 05:57, 01, 05, 2012

If we're all in agreement, then I'll go and change the limit. 00:25, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don't think that that the current limit is much of a problem. It's not even full always. I don't agree, sorry. Also, I think that the approval page could be changed back to the original limit, as we're done for now with redoing any blanks, and plus the raised limit was for the apprentices. 00:38, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Now, giving it a second thought, the tweak page isn't always even near full. I think it's fine for now, and I agree with Stoney. The approval page however should go back to it's normal limit. If it's number should change, I'd say 30. 05:40, 05, 05, 2012

Just curious
Will Leafstar's image stay as a queen since she still has kits, or be a leader since she's still doing leader duties? *w* Skt Knock knock 03:38, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

I'd really like it to go back to being leader... For personal reasons of loving the leader image, and because she seems to be a leader first and foremost, and has stuck to her leader duties as well as nursing her kits. So yeah, I'm in favor of switching it to leader. 04:48, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Shelly. I'm up for changing it.

I also am agreeing with Shelly. 21:36, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the above-- 22:14, April 30, 2012 (UTC)Moonshine

The thing is, she's still both a queen and a leader. Both images have every right to be her main image since she is equally both. 22:16, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Well...her kits can't stay kits forever. Eventually, they'll grow up. But...-edges away- My opinion, anyway. 08:05, 05 01, 2012

There's a coding thingie on another wiki that I visit that's kinda like the tab code but in the user box (Like [|this]. We could do that, so her main charart can swap between queen and leader. 02:24, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

That could be incredibly cool. Let's do that. :3 02:27, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Oh! We could also use it for the daylight warriors! Can Shelly please make the template? 8D 02:33, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Better you than me (Scar fails at coding xD) Fire away! 02:35, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

sounds like a great idea! And it'd definitely work for the daylight warriors. It's amazing what you can find from looking on other wikis. :P 16:37, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Alright guys, just an update. Kit, Atelda, and I worked together and the switch template is currently set up here. However, the charcat template still needs to be tweaked to compensate for this template, so it can't be used until that's done. 22:42, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

That looks great! I think this should be left up to another project though, since it isn't really our job to make templates... o3o

It isn't working for me, or is it not working period? 19:31, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

It's not working yet. The charcat needs to be updated so it can manage characters who have one picture while also managing those who have two. 21:28, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

A New Task For Senior Warriors (and anyone that wants to help out)
Hey all!

So, the tweak nomination limit vote has ended, and by unanimous vote, it passed.

What this means is that, now, tweak nominations are closed (those currently up right now can remain as they've been grandfathered into the system). And they will remain closed until enough redos and tweaks are completed that there are only 40 images on that list.

From here on, if the number of images on the list excedes 50, tweak nominations close and anyone looking to do an image needs to pick one from the list.

Also, I've counted up the current number of images on the list and placed a helpful red number above it. There are currently 69 images on that list. From here on, if an image is added to or removed from the list, that number needs to be updated. This'll be easier than having senior warriors check in every day to count the images over and over. ;)

So, yeah. That's that. I'm glad we had a vote we all agreed on! 02:23, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Can we number the list? (it'd help my pool ol' eyes xP) 02:30, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

That'd work, except the list is in two parts... 02:35, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

* laughs at current number* doing the number might e better than doing the bullets IMO. And it doesn't really matter that they are in two parts (unless you have bad math skills) 02:38 Wed May 2

Mmkay, I'm up for the job. And yeah, if really needed you can always use a calculator. OwO  06:25, 02, 05, 2012

Molepaw and possibly others
Since we never really got to a conclusion on the tweak nomination vote, I'm just going to go ahead and post it here. The main problems discussed were the shade of brown and the cream colour on him. I personally think the brown could be fixed to a more "browner" color and the cream on the apprentice could be more "creamier" to match the kit, Opinions? 11:18, 04, 05, 2012

I agree. That brown is borderline ginger and the cream looks like off-white. 16:46, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Petalnose Alt?
In After the Flood she is shown as a gray and white cat, yes the manga is in black and white so I'm not sure if she needs one, or should it just be in the trivia. Comments? 19:21, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Actually... I'm not really sure about that. She's a pale cat, is she not? I mean, solid. If she's shown as a gray and white, she //might// get an alt. I'm not sure off the top of my head. Guys, what do you think?

Also should Echosong get a warrior image? In Firestar's Quest she had a naming ceremony, but not sure if that qualifys(?) 19:51, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Petalnose sounds like she should, but is there any way you can take a picture of the image and post it on Iaza or something so we can at least see if it's legit? As for Echosong, I think she would, but I'd need some input from other members. 20:05, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

It's legit. I know where Wild's thinking she gets the alt. She is indeed shown as a gray and white cat. I can try and take a picture, but, the quality on my phone is bad.

Okay, then go for it Wild ^^ 20:22, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks 20:58, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Also what about Sharpclaw the soild tom cat? And while I'm at it Boulder needs a solid gray tom for any one who wants him. 21:29, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Was Boulder specifically said to be "solid grey"? If he was just called "grey" then that's a no. 21:44, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

No clue, I just saw it on his page. 21:46, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the approval page, Boulder already has an alternative image for approval. And in Sharpclaw's trivia it isn't cited. Echosong I disagree since doesn't a naming cermony apply over any ceremony? Sincerely: ChanCharm 05:26, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

So that answers Oblivion's question. As for Sharpclaw it has one now I just added it. I have to re-read that part of Firestar's Quest for Echosong. 14:38, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Also Harveymoon's collars don't match. 18:20, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, who gives a crap if Harveymoon's collars don't match? They don't have to match, so there's to be no more discussion on that. It's a collar. Cats don't always have the same one forever. >.>

Onestar (and possibly others....)
He was shown as a brown tabby with cream markings on page 48 of CotC. Now, he had an alt, but it was removed for apparently being part of the whole pale marking thing. However, pale, cream and white are not the same thing, are they? Should Onestar's alt be restored and re-added? Now, I'm no expert on genetics and all of that fun stuff, but, I don't think cream comes anywhere close to pale... Suggestions?

I'm not sure but I think they are different pale could mean anything, pale golden, pale yellow, pale brown, etc. Cream means cream. 23:54, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's fine. Pale markings are really just lighter markings than the rest of the coat. The cream was lighter than the brown, do I'm pretty sure it counts as pale. Breeze whisker  02:53, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Pale is a lighter color, but cream is something different. So, you're saying if a ginger tabby would be depicted with cream markings (unrealistic, I know, but go along with it), it would be the same as a cat with pale markings? I really don't quite get that. It just seems a little weird. Cream and pale aren't the same thing. x.x

Now that you mention it Cloudy, cream is different than pale. Pale means a lighter shade of any color. Cream has it's own color, and I think it should be an alt. 03:04, 06, 05, 2012

Are you sure that Onestar's picture is brown and cream? Looking at it now, it could easily just be white.

But having legitimate white markings is a lot different than just having lighter colored fur on the chest or belly like a standard tabby. I think you're right, Cloudy. It probably should be re-added. Breeze whisker  03:10, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

If Onestar is brown then your assuming that pale in that case would mean pale brown? In that case, cream is completely different. Sincerely: ChanCharm 05:28, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

If Chan is right in it being pale brown, then it might be considered the same as cream. I googled images of the two colors and found that there was a very subtle difference. So it might depend on your depiction of the two colors.-- 00:00, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

It actually should be restored. Cream is its own color, and Onestar was not brown with pale marking when he was shown, but brown and cream. 14:22, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

Characters Needing Art Page
I really don't understand the point of this page anymore. Members when they find an image to do they usually do it themselves, or tell someone about it and they do it. Also even if they do post something on that page, it will be gone in a matter of seconds. Also something written on that page would be along the lines of *soandso- For Approval* when that image was approved a while back. What's the point in keeping a page that is barely a use anymore? 14:50, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Well, for one, it's helpful when a new book comes out with a lot of characters, such as Crookedstar's Promise and The Rescue coming out at the same time. There is no way someone can keep all those chararts to themselves and it gets things done faster if those who don't know what needs to be done can help out :) Yeah, right now, it's pretty useless, but just wait for Dawn of the Clans and see how that changes.  14:56, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Ivystripe it is neglected now, but when DotC comes out it should be overrun with chararts to do. (Possibly even Yellowfang's secret) 17:54, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Mmhmm. What Ivy said. It will be //very// useful when DotC comes out. Until then, however, it'll probably lie dormant.

Sorry Guys xD
If you guys haven't noticed already, I've really been fading away from PCA. I'm not going to leave, but I just have so much less time than I used to. Anyways, the point is, I don't think I can do the news anymore. Since Shelly left for such a short time when she gave the job for me, I'd like to offer the job to her again. However if Shelly doesn't want to do it again, I think it would be best if she choose someone else to do it. :3 19:36, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

That's okay Ivy! ^^ Just try to get on when you can. 06:30, 07, 05, 2012

It's time
A few of you might hate me for this... But I need to do it.

My time with this project is over. I've done what I needed to do. I've made my mark and helped the best I could. I've made dozens of charartsand I've spent a great deal of my time in service to this project.

But eventually I need to get my priorities in order. I am 20, nearly 21. I have college, friends, family, a life... I can't let that be derailed by my own guilt at taking too long on a charart or forgetting my sw duties.

That isn'tto sayI haven't enjoyed PCA, or that I think that it's a waste of time. I've loved being part of this group, through the good and the bad. Truth be told, I should have left much earlier, I just wasn't comfortable doing so before I knew you guys could do what you needed to do.

But I've seen it, and I'm proud... You guys are now making proposals when you see problems in the project. You guys know what to do and how to do it. And I know you guys will be fine without me. Despite what's been said before, you guys do not need me, and finally I can move on knowing that PCA is going to be just fine.

So thank you, all of you. For everything. For putting up with my rants, for helping with my proposals, for making me a senior warrior twice. I'll still make time for this wiki, but my time in this corner of it is done. Whenever my opinion is wanted, you all know a way to find me.

Ah, as a last note, I will be finishing Buzzardstar's deputy image if no one has done him yet, and I choose Stoneclaw to keep the news. If she doesn't want the position, she can choose who gets it.

Cellar door! 19:58, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

...Shelly...You will be greatly missed by PCA, and myself. I don't want you to go, but I understand. PCA gives you thanks for everything you've done-how you improved the project, and it'll be different without you. I'm honored that you've chosen me to keep the news up-to-date, and I'll try hard to do so... Remember, no matter what happened, PCA shall remember you. :) May StarClan light your path~ 20:18, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Ciao, Shelly. Stone's already said everything I could have said. =3

You know what? I think I'm going to join Shelly. I'm going to be blunt here, I've been depressed for a very long time, and I don't think anybody realizes how some of the things that happen on this website contribute to my depression. I won't say what has because I don't want anyone to feel guilty. I will probably be back in the future, but I really need to help myself get well again. At the least, I'll probably need a month because taking these week long breaks don't help it at all, but I really don't know how long it will be. Like Shelly, I will see my projects through to the end. I'll work on Jayfeather's kit tonight and whatever happens to Tawnypelt, I'll do, but after that, I need to leave for a while. I'm so sorry guys but it's for my own good. I know you guys have strong members of this project, and like I said, it's not permanent. Take care and keep your chin up. 20:34, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

As much as everybody will miss you, real life always comes first and it is completely understandable why you'd leave. Goodbye and good luck, you two. <3 Breeze  whisker  21:17, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Awww, I'll miss you Shelly and so will everyone in PCA. Same goes for you Ivy. Both of you, take care. <3.  21:25, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Shelly. Ivy. We will all miss you dearly. May StarClan light your path~ 21:39, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Guys...we'll miss you so much. You've done a great deal of the project, and honestly, we won't ask any more if you want to leave. Take care, guys~ 22:25, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Shelly, it's sad to see you go. You've been around here for a long time, and you've changed PCA to have some of the many great attributes it has today. We'll miss your outburst of ideas and great chararts, and I wish you well on your way. PCA will remember all the things you did for us.

Ivystripe, I hope you come back soon and I hope everything works out for you. :)

May StarClan both light your paths. 23:43, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Dwaaww... We'll miss you so much, Shelly! Drop in and say hi once in a while, 'kay? May StarClan Light your Path 00:42, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

@Shelly: Understandable. We all have a life, and if that is what you wish to do, I respect that. PCA will miss you, you were very dedicated in what you do.

@Ivy: You too were very commited into making PCA the best place it can be. Your charart skills are amazing, and you will be missed greatly.

It's so sad to see you both go. ;( May StarClan light your paths. Hope you can come back sometime soon, you'll always be welcome here. 06:39, 07, 05, 2012

Aww Shelly, you will be greatly missed. You were my mentor and because of that I thank you for passing your skills to me. You were an amazing mentor, and your an amazing user and PCA senior warrior. Ivy you too. You always help when someone needs it. You were active and another great senior warrior. My StarClan light both of your paths. You can always come back!!! >:D 20:14, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

Joining-spotz
I'm rejoining the project, so, may i? Spottedstar42 The WWi ki van dals Mu st fall!!!  21:07, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Of course you can~ Check out the guidelines and apprentice tutorials to refresh your memory, and if you want, check out the mentor program. Welcome back~ 21:25, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Rejoin? x3
Okay. I've been seeing so many users leave...and I think it's about time I quit my hiatus from you all. x3 21:27, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Leggy. <333

Leggo~! ::tacklehugs:: welcome back <333  jack  never let go, loonie ❤  21:31, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Leggoo! <3 8D 21:42, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Leggy~! <333 22:28, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

-parties- w00t Leggy's back! <333 8DD <span style="">06:41, 07, 05, 2012

Things That Are Artist's Choice
I was checking through the guidelines and noticed *unless I'm blind* they didn't say anything about what exactly is artist's choice on a charart. Shouldn't they be established and added for future members/refrence? 21:52, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Fur length (unless it's WindClan or RiverClan), eye color, pale underbellies, shading placement, ect.

It doesn't need to be added to the guidelines. I'm confident that you guys can figure out what's artist's choice or not, and if it isn't we'll tell you. 21:56, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

I was just thinking it should be added because it would be a lot easier then repeating it to who-knows-how many new users each time they ask.. 00:40, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

One Last Proposal Before I Go
Ah, hey guys. something came to mind right after I posted my message... and I couldn't ignore it. I'll just be making this proposal and leaving you guys to deal with it how you see fit.

It's pretty simple. I think there should be a chart on the front page of PCA with blank slots for users not in the project to use to reserve chararts if they wish to do so without joining.

So have fun with that. 02:18, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

I could've sworn that you could just add yourself into the chart (not the members table, though). It's what I did a year and half-odd ago. 02:21, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

That's what I did when I first found PCa too. I made a charart or two and just added my name without joining. 03:36, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but having a second chart would make it more obvious to users that they can do that. Many don't have a clue. 108.4.1.7 04:33, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's necessary. Even though most users aren't so good with coding, they could always ask a lead, and we rarely get non-member users to offer charart. :/ <span style="">06:50, 07, 05, 2012

"Rarely" doesn't mean "never". I don't see any problem with having an open slot on the reservation chart. It'd be better then having the user think they need too join, submit one charart, then be removed due to inactivity. 18:42, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

PCA's Blanks have been Stolen :O
http://warriorscatsfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Warriors_Fanon_Wiki <--- This wiki,

used PCA's leader blanks, without permission from an admin.

Evidence:

http://warriorscatsfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Whitestar_WhiskerClan

http://warriorscatsfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Burnedheart_OceanClan

Users responsible are Aniju Aura and Burnedstar.

Please look into this situation.

Thanks!

- 20:30, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

Leaving
Yeah. I'm going, this time for real. Bye guys. I'll miss everyone, but I don't fit in here anymore. Thanks for everything. Happy chararting/editing. 00:06, May 8, 2012 (UTC) Shadewing

Awwww. :c Sad to see ya go, Shadeh. May StarClan light your pathhhh~ 00:09, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

=C Sorry to see you leave. We'll miss you. 07:26, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry to here that Shadey, may StarClan light your path and we wish you luck in life. <span style="">09:24, 08, 05, 2012

Realism? Redos? Tweaks?
Okay. So as we know, PCA has been trying hard to make/redo/tweak images to look realistic. I understand that realism is important-it gives our veiwers a better sense of what a warriors character could look in real life, or so. There have been many debates and discussion so far about realistic images and non-realistic images. First, traingle tabbies aren't accepted in PCA anymore. Second, wavy tabbies, y-tabbies.

We are working to get realistic tabbies, right?

The only thing is that, there are only so little kinds of tabbies that are natural/realistic. I personally think that we should be able to make different kinds of tabbies (not triangle or Y-tabbies, however), that are personalized so that that tabby represents you're style of tabbies. See, art is not perfect, not bad. As this is something that requires creativity and art, I think that we shouldn't be too serious about these things (this is just my opinion, I'm not demanding for PCA to be like this...), like realism. Also, well, some people just may be better in a certain kind of charart (like tabby tortie, bi-color, ect..), but in a different style they may have more trouble with. All PCA members try their absolute best in my opinion, so if somebody just isn't the best at torties (like me) or so, I think we shouldn't redo their images...But keep them in honor of the artist's hard work for PCA. Redoing images...I'm not sure if that's always the best idea. With tweaking, that's different. You improve the image while still keeping the OA's style so it could still be seen. Also, styles should be artist's choice...right?

I also kinda think that sometimes, we take the realism thing too far...*sighs*

Pretty much, I think that we should perhaps have a page that says what qualifies for a redo. I'd like to have less redoing of images, so we could still honor the OA's image, but it could still be tweaked and still have the OA's style there (or just a similar style). What I think that would qualify for a redo would be: Triangle tabby (full triangle tabby, not counting modified), Y-tabby, and an image that is just...Not done properly or completed (extremely blotchy shading).

Also...Images that may not be realistic fully, but still fine, would just be tweaks.

Sorry if I wasn't clear on all of this, I wasn't concentrating too much...So, Feedback, opinions, and suggestions? 06:48, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think we might have taken this a bit too far too. Although I like realism, in my experience; users who view images don't really pay much attention to realism, just how the character looks pretty much. I'd try to make it as realistic and creative as possible, but we can't help it to redo triangle and y tabbies like Stoney said. Giving it some thought, I think Silverstream's and Jake's tabby style, there probally would be more tweaks, was okay. (Even though I <3333 the newer images too) but eh, that's my thoughts. <span style="">09:02, 09, 05, 2012

Yup! All images are epic in they're own way! And yeah, I think that newer users/anons pay more attention to the charart's style, but that doesn't mean that we can't neglect realism. Yeah, I guess we're not taking it too far with the realism, however, I just feel that we should honor the OA's hard work a bit more by redoing less images, but more tweaking. 15:03, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we'be taken the realism thing too far... There's still a lot of chararts that get approved now-a-days that aren't exactly possible in the real world. I personally think the rules (for lack of a better word) for redos should be higher and more focused on things like; triangular tabbies, y-tabbies, not fitting the characters description, overblurred areas, ect. Of course no art can be bad. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But we can't focus so much on what looks good rather then what is realistic. Yes, anons and visitors arent going to be looking for 100% realistic art on the characters pages, but that doesn't mean we need to ignore realism and just keep the chararts that look the best. I don't exactly understand how we can tweak images instead of redoing them if they qualify for a redo. Maybe smudge the stripes? I know when I look at my cat I see pointed stripes, but they're way to smudged within his pelt. So maybe we can start doing things like that instead of redoing them completely? Just my thoughts/opinions. 18:05, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Mhmm. I don't believe that redoing some completely is always right. Yeah, we should redo triangle and y-tabbies, but with the smudge tool, it's actually possible to make the stripes look more realistic than unrealistic. 18:11, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I don't exactly agree with some of the redoing either. I've seen some chararts get redone simply because the artist didn't like it, which is why I suggested the higher stakes *having a bad wording day* for redoing. And the smudging tool could be an easy solution for not redoing so many images. A tabby's pattern is almost never so perfect and defined as we draw them here. 18:49, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Baaayeeh
Oh dang I hate this but I'm going to be very very very inactive until mid June. I'm not putting this on the vacation list because I'm disappearing and will making almost no edits. I'll finish Bramblestar's warrior but I won't be in discussions, I won't comment (not like I did very much of that anyway), and I won't be posting anything. I have gotten way too busy with too much stuff (things I forgot I signed up for and whatnot). So basically I'm leaving. I'll place my rejoin request on June 20th (maybe earlier if I'm lucky =O or if UP reopens ehehehe  ). I just need to make up for the lost school time x.x. I'll be on chat (hopefully). I will be back but since that's 6 weeks away, I'm just warning you all ahead of time so I don't abandon without a warning. So yeah, goodbye *salutes* and good luck! 17:14 Wed May 9

Calling Tweaks?
I'd like to adress a problem with the calling tweaks/redo thing. So, if a user nominates an image, they can get dibs on that image if they want to. I'm sorry, but don't think it's right. If you reserve an image first before another user, then you get it fair and square. And when calling dibs, a different user may want to redo that image (since it may have been sitting there for a long time), but the user who called dibs may have not even done it yet, but left it sitting there. So, the nominator may have called dibs on a lot of images, but has so many to do that many of the images sit there. And we were discussing about how the number of tweaks and redos on the list gets pretty high at times. One factor of the list piling up so much is the calling of tweaks and redos. Images sometimes sit there for months because the nominator called it but didn't do it, and another user may have been wanting to do that image long time ago.

So, pretty much, I think that calling dibs on tweaks and redos should not be should not be a guideline or so. If you get an image, you get it fair and square, and you can let the nominator have the image out of kindnes, not because of a rule.

Thoughts and comments? 20:09, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure... I think that if you actually go around and find an image that you think should be redone/tweaked then you kinda deserve it if it passes. Plus I thought we had a rule about only having a week to do an image that you claimed? O.o Or was that never approved/finalized? or am I just seeing things? x.e 20:17, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think the system works pretty well as it is. If someone wants an image when they claim it, they should reserve it when it's archived. If not, anyone can go in there and reserve out because it wouldn't be on the table (Oh, and don't call me out on the whole "but-the-person-who-claimed-it-should-still-get-it-because-they-can't-be-expected-to-sit-there-and-stare-at-the-tweak-nomination-page". Because what I just said takes place after a few days, not minutes, giving the claimer plenty of time to find and reserve their image). I really hope that made sense. 20:28, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think if you claim it, you should have one week to do the image. If not, then it's fair game for everyone. After all, you may have other images that are being worked on when that's being nominated.

Hmm...I agree with you Cloudy. That would work. 21:33, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think they should have to reserve in on the reservation table within the next 24 hours, also. Otherwise you might have conflicts with the whole "I said I wanted to do this image..." stuff when the other artist had just picked it off the redo/tweak list. It would also keep people from claiming if they've already had three images on the table. Breeze whisker  01:48, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

hi
can i join? and im sorry if i put this on the wrong page but i dont know where to put it Rainleaf of Riverclan 21:32, May 9, 2012 (UTC)Rainleaf of Riverclan

Guess who's back? ;)
Yup! I'm back! Never really intended to leave, but I guess that kinda happened anyways. xD I deleted my foulder with all my PCA stuff in it, though, so I gotta get all that back... *sigh*

Oh, right, my question. Can I rejoin PCA? :) I'm back! <sup style="font-family:Georgia;color:#91219E"> Miss me? xD  21:48, May 9, 2012 (UTC)