Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Colour example?
I was wondering if we could have a colour example image. I don't know if anybody knows what I mean, but sometimes when you're commenting on an image and you want the artist to change the earpink to a different colour or adjust the pelt colour, you can't properly describe what colour you mean, so you post an image (like I did under Mosspelt's tweaked image). However, once the image is finished and archived, your colour-reference image ends up floating around and taking up space if it doesn't get a delete tag. I was wondering if we could have a designated image that you can just reupload your colour onto for reference, so we don't end up cluttering the wiki with these random colour squares. Obviously it wouldn't be used very commonly, but it would be helpful for keeping clutter to a minimum. I dunno. Maybe this is a flawed idea... You tell me. Opinions? 01:46 Sat Oct 22

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're talking about having one image that would have a specific name and you would just reupload this image with a new color when needed? Sorry, I'm a bit confused at what you are asking Dx 01:48, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Sorry for confusion :3 01:52 Sat Oct 22

Hm, I see what your saying (i hope) But what if two people use the image at the same time, like one person posts a color for earpnk. And then somebody else uploads over with another color for eye color, for instance, blue, and posts under another image for approval. So the other person working on the other image and comes on seeing a person suggesting "blue" for earpink and be all like "wtf??" So, should it be only available to upload over once the image is archived? (Sorry if I was vague ^^;;) 02:04, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

We could have a section on the tutorail that have hex code examples. Then we dont need an image at all. 18:28, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Point, Guardian. Let's use Moonleaf's and my situation as an example. I figured that I could (when reuploading the image) add in the description section what the reupload was for, so when Moonleaf saw the image, she would check the image details and look at the proper version of the upload. If that makes any sense, nod your head XD Iceheart: for some people hex codes are really confusing, and I feel it'd be easier to just have one image that people can save and then colour-pick. 21:16 Sat Oct 22

I think we should just fix the pelt-to-earpink chart. For example, there is RED on the chart. There is not such thing as a pure-blood-red cat. I've used the earpink off of there and sometime it is incorrect. What say we just tweak that instead, for every pelt color ever used? And maybe the color of that pelt type as well (such as tawny or bracken for those of us who hardly know what those colors are). That way, a person could just color-pick off that :3  04:49, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Torties and Calicos
Should torties and calicos with orange/ginger patches have stripes on those patches? As we've discussed, all ginger cats are tabbies, even those that are only partially ginger. 19:22, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

I think they can, but they dont need to be redone to have stripes, just tweaked. 19:24, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

It's the artist's choice, really, to either add in stripes or not. Cause Ive seen some pictures on calicos with orange with no stripes (or maybe sometimes the stripes are just not noticable) 19:35, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

That cat had stripes. Look at its head. 19:36, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

I personally think we shouldn't bother tweaking them. I've seen plenty of torties without a tabby stripes, and they have ginger in them. And Shelly, all cats have that tabby M on the head, it doesn't neccesarily mean it's a tabby. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  21:42, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

I think we don't need to add stripes. In Hawaii, there was a calico, and there were no stripes. 23:22, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

If we're going to get techincal, then yes, but only facial markings. The general portion of their body doesn't have them and they are so faint, it seems a tad tedious. However, a torbie cat is a tabby/tortie or calico and should get stripes, but only if they were described as such. 02:11, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

So no redoing/tweaking is needed, correct? 19:45, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Ivystripe, but do all cats have that 'tabby M' on their head, as in charart cats? 06:23, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Wait
Wait for the new apprentice blanks, does it count as a tweak or a regular charart? 19:57, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Tweak. Simple as that. 19:58, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

So they actaully aren't going to be redone? (as in apprentices can't do them xD)

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  00:34, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if they'll be tweaks or if they'll be redone or if they'll qualify as a regular charart, but the blank is radically different from the old apprentice blank, so you can't just layer the new lineart over. 00:38 Mon Oct 24

Yeah, I thought we agreed it'd be a whole new project that EVERYBODY gets to do? I think that is only fair. 00:44, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

I don't remember being a part of that discussion, Ivy. Unless it was decided when I wasn't around. I guess it doesn't matter, does it? Tweak, whole new approval. Eh. Whatever. 00:46, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Ugh, TWO edit conflicts. XD Wait, you've seen it Wildy? Is it up now? Did I miss something? O.O *looks around anxiously* And I would think they would go on the approval page. That's what happened with the Prey hunter blanks, and those were just tweaked, not redone. And I remember that being said too Cloudy, you probably weren't here. :P ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  00:48, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

I hate edit conflicts XD I've seen it just 'cause Iceheart keeps on sending it to me with comments like "What should I change before I put it up for approval??" :P It's not up. 01:17 Mon Oct 24

So does anyone know the real answer? xD

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  19:10, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know for sure, but I think all images should be up for grabs, meaning it would count as an original image and not a redone image. There wouldn't be any tweaking involved. However, I don't have the final say. Iceheart? 04:41 Tue Oct 25

I'm not sure, I'd think it be a tweak because it's getting redone, but if the new blanks are different than the old ones like Wildheart said, then it should be a start from scratch charart, so all users can use them. 06:20, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

I think they should count as new chararts any way, because there's a lot, and we'd all need as much help we could get. 22:42, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

The original intetion was to be free game for everyone, and that seems like a lot of work for just warriors and leads. And ya Ivystripe Wildheart and Cloudskye have all had to deal with me emailing them the pictures and begging for advice. Theyre almost ready, but we arent working with them until April. 01:46, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

So it counts as a regualr charart? I'm a tad confused Dx 23:20, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

It seems that way, Sweet. But, we will not be using them until TFH comes out. 23:21, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

I was just confused since I saw them all on the tweak list...

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  16:16, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Dates for Tweaks?
Could we change the tweak nomination page to have like a place where you can say when the image was added to the list or something? Cause we agreed that images should be on the list for at least a week so leads could check through and remove the ones that shouldn't actually be tweak/redone, but right now, it'd be so hard to tell when it was put on, the rule's not really able to be enforced. I think we should either get rid of the rule all together or add the dates when we added the images. And for the ones already on right now, a lead could look through them, remove the unneeded ones, then we could just add the date as a week ago. What do you guys think? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  00:42, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

It's a good idea, and I agree...but there will be tons of people that forget about it, myself included. I usually check and see which images are on there, and if they need to be tweaked. That whole one week rule is stupid, because some images REALLY need it. *coughs*Redwillow*coughs* 22:03, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Yes the the whole need to be on the list for a week thing was mostly just a safe gaurd so people wouldnt add it to the redo list, reserve it, and post all in the same 30 seconds. But mostly its just a pain. Is anyone willing to keep it? Or can we just throw it out the door? 01:38, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I'd offer, but knowing me, I would forget. I say just chuck it, because there's really no point in it. It's quite annoying, if you ask me. >.>;; 02:00, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

So speak now or forever hold your peace? Im ready to can it, and from what i can tell everyone else is to. 02:07, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I say, goodbye silly tweak rule. XD ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  03:48, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Just kill it, please. 16:04, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Charart Alternates
I'm starting to think that we should add them to the "Characters Needing Art" because there are quite a few of them. And it would help a lot of we knew where to find the alts. 10:43, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah,I agree too. 12:33, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. I honestly see no reason as to why we haven't thus far. 12:56, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

I do too. I'm learning how to do this stuff, and I wanted to do a first charart, so I go to the "Characters Needing Art" and there are none. So it gives new users, who don't know where to go or what to do, a sense of what tehy can do. (I hop ethat made sense :3 ) 15:19, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Well, it is something that they need, as any major pelt change necessitates a pixil. 17:30, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

I agree. It's hard to find a charart to do when it's not on the list. 19:13, October 25, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Yes, someone should be in charge of that. Don't you think? 21:30, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think that a few people would be in charge of it, and certain people are assigned to check certain cats (Ex. Cats in ThunderClan, A-G) to see if they need alts. 23:00, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

I can start on that now. Its the half-term holidays at the moment so I have a week off school to do nothing XD. 20:25, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Speckle, I think we should get an approval by one of the leads first. 20:27, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that's what the page is used for, if you ask me. But, if you find an alt, by all means, put it on the page. 20:31, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

I think I've got all of the clan cats (but I might have made some mistakes). I'll do the cats outside of clans and SkyClan in the morning. 21:41, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Done. 09:40, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Mentioned, but not seen?
Ok, so I was browsing over Mousefang's page earlier, and noticed he was mentioned as being a kit when SkyClan left the forest. Shouldn't he get a charart for that? We;ve made chararts for cats only MENTIONED as a rank, such as Toadstep and Rosepetal, and Barely and his siblings. I think we should decide once and for all whether characters get chararts for being mentioned or not. For now, it's never really been made completely clear as far as I know. And if this was already discussed, can we like add it somewhere, so people know you can make a charart for the character if they were only mentioned as a rank? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  17:08, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

^I meants She, for Mousefang, sorry. XD ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  17:10, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah that's what I was wondering too because I wanted to do Firestar's kit before. I mean..he had dreams about when he was a kit and I mean...it's not like he isn't a kit in the first place. 17:16, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

I see no reason why not. If we're doing images for others like this, what would be the difference? 17:27, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, agreed. I see no reason not too, even though her saying that she was a kit was an error, as she was mentioned as a warrior before and during the move from the forest. 20:16, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

So it's decided. You may do them. -- 21:28, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Kay. But Shelly, how can we tell whether her being bentioned as a Warrior wasn't a mistake? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  21:31, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

We actually saw her as a warrior in the old forest in Battles of the Clans. She broke a leg, I believe. She was only mentioned as a kit. Logic dictates we go with what we saw and not what we heard in this case. 16:46, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Group Drawing
I finished the group drawing last night after about seven hours of coloring it in (plus about three days sketching and three hours putting in the line art). Here's the finished image: link to the image!

I'm also putting together a speedpaint video to go with it, which will be up sometime this week (my computer's having a hard time with the huge file). If it's alright to post the video here, of course. Otherwise I'll just post a link. I hope you guys like it. ^^ I love this project. 20:21, October 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * O That is awesomely awesome. I will troll this image forever. Sky- Stop right there criminal  scum! 20:32, October 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * O.O That is friggin' epic! (Sorry for language :P) 20:36, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

I like it! Maybe you should list who's in it, because I can't really tell who's who. 21:07, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

You're supposed to look on her talk page to see who is who, but there's quite a few cats with the same (or like) description. XD 21:27, October 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * O I see me... :D I love it!

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  21:43, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

So, who's got this as their computer wallpaper? I know I do! XD 21:45, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

I'm one of the white pelted and blue eyed cats. xD 22:25, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Any guesses what one I am? :3 Sky- Stop right there criminal  scum! 23:04, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

I added in a key. 02:00, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

THIS IS SO AWESOME I LOVE YOU SHELLY <3 02:08 Wed Oct 26

Haha, thanks. Sorry I made you look scared out of your mind. 02:13, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Oh mai. This is epic. I LOVE YOO AND YOUR ART, SHELLY. <3 02:42, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Here's the video... I hope it's alright to put this here for now. I saw no rules against it. 04:52, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

It's been blocked due to copyright issues... Shelly, what songs did you USE? 05:09, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

You have to be kidding me... Uhg. I'll fix it in the morning. Don't these people know that I'm not breaking any law as long as I am not profitting off of it? Oh well, nothing to do but pick different songs. 05:38, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Wow! 05:48, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Awesome,epic, great!!!!!! Leaf-storm 8:23,October 26,2011 (UTC)

That's amazing! 17:02, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, the video's good now. I laid down the law to youtube. thumb|300px|left  Enjoy! 21:33, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

That drawing is epic! Love it! I put a comment on it on deviantART as my deviantART account, LeapingWolf4. I'm gonna put it as my desktop wallpaper.- Kittycat79 aka Rowantail 22:29, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Great music for the speedpaint =D Again, thanks so much, this is awesome, pure awesome 22:47, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Awesome Shelly!!

Awesome Shelly. How Come I wasn't asked to be in this? *kinda looks hurt* Darkfangstorm  Vampire time!  23:02, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Rainface, sorry, but I put out an open invitation on this page for all project members to join in on the group shot. I guess you didn't see it. I'm glad you guys like it. ^^ I'm also happy so many are using it on their desktops. Someone may upload the image here as their personal image if they wish, as long as the image is attributed to me. I've released it into limited creative commons through deviantart. 23:07, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

It must of been up that time i wasn't here. It's okay Shelly. Darkfangstorm Vampire time!  23:09, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Heehee, I watched myself get painted. :D Nice job!! 14:14, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Oh man, I really wish I could've been on when you posted that D: But still, it's amazing. 19:25, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Hey I got a question for y'all
Hey guys. I thought about it, and I'm going to do a speedpaint for the tutorial to show off my style. I'm going to do one for different styles to show them off. I was just wondering, though...would anybody be too terribly offended if I actually talked during it so I can explain things? I don't want to scare anyone away with my terrible voice but I find it easier to explain things as I go instead of later. 15:10, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Your work is amazing, and it would be of great use to us. Why in the name of StarClan would anyone argue it? It's easier to explain things in spoken words then text (for me), anyways. I say go for it. =) 15:14, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, done and put on the apprentice tutorials =) Enjoy guys.  18:39, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Bluestar
I'm a little confused here. Bluestar needed a alt kit charart, so I made it, and I was about to put it up, but there already was one on her page, and before there wasn't one on her page. So does she need it or not? 00:47, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Stoneclaw named the file wrong. She already has a dark gray alt, so if that's the one you were going to make, I'm sorry, but it's not needed. 00:49, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Snake, Ice, and Poppycloud
Ok, I noticed that the shading on Snake's charart needed some serious blurring, and Ice had an under bite. Should they be tweaked for that. And should they get a loner alternate, 'cause they appeared as black-and-white in the manga. And Poppycloud's description says she's tortoiseshell (w/ no white), and her charart shows her tortoiseshell-and-white. Should she be tweaked? Bluestar11796 01:14, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Ice only had an underbite in the manga, it isn't needed for the official image. Also, torties can have white without being tortoiseshell-and-white as long as it isn't a lot. If you want to see what is in need of tweaking you can look here and add what you want (though Snake is already on the list to get his shading fixed). 01:21, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Also, Snake and Ice already have alternates for their pelt changes. 03:07, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Is it wrong I was really happy when I saw this, cause I realized I had a reason to tweak my old horrid image when I saw this? XD Anyways, Ivy, she said LONER alts, they have rogue alts. And I think they would, but I don't know what they were in the manga, I never read them. :P ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  03:18, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Oh dang it, you meant Snake's ROGUE charart didn't you. XD ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  03:35, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Alternate Colors
Okay, so this may be already discussed before...but of course, I wouldn't know...

Anyway, if a character was officialy descripted as "Gray tabby" (No shades included) and it was then mistakenly described as dark gray/light gray (No tabby stripes included) could it get an alt?

Also, what is the major differences with Tawny/Bracken/Red-brown shades?

Thanks and I hope I don't sound too stupid--. 04:15, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, we discussed this before. No, simply specifying from a general color doesn't constitute that an alternate be made. We don't make an alt every time Firestar isn't called a flame-colored tom, so there's no reason to do it with every little thing. 04:23, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

wouldnt you consider "Dark gray tabby" and "Solid light gray" a large difference? . 04:29, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but those are opposite ends of the spectrum. However, if you're going from just gray to dark gray or light gray, then it's just specifying what type of gray they are, and in that case the main charart should be tweaked. 04:31, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I also mean, a tabby mistakenly described as solid, would it get an alt with no stripes disregaurding colors? . 04:33, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I wouldnt think the authors would say their full descriptions everytime they refer to a cat. They just shorten it to make it easier for themselves. I wouldnt be surprised if half the tabbies were "mistakenly" described as without teh stripes - 04:35, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Of course, but mainly I am suggesting matters when it is definatly desbrided as solid oppose to tabby. . 04:37, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yea, but we figured it wasnt too much of a difference without the stripes, wether described as dark or light. - 04:42, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Mousefur got an alt for being described as a brown tabby, when she's usually not (I would know, 'cause I made it). Isn't this the same thing, just reversed? 04:46, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

No, Cloudy, not even close. Let's use Brambleclaw as an example. He's a brown cat with darker brown stripes. If he was described as "brown", it would include his pelt colour as well as his stripes. As apposed to Mousefur, who is a solid brown. If she was described with stripes, that's an error because she never had them in the first place. As for the whole "dark gray stripes, dark gray tom/she-cat", they're the exact same thing. Unless the Erins said "solid gray" (which they never do, by the way), it wouldn't get an alternate. 18:46, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, matter settled, I think. Oblivion, you explained that quite well. 18:51, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I think you guys are missing something though, Feather's talking about if they're described as a different SHADE, as well as without tabby stripes. Like, take oblivion's example, except, Brambleclaw's mentioned as LIGHT brown instead of just brown. Would he get an alternate for that? I would think he would. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  19:24, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Exacily. Thanks, Paleh-- for pointing that out. :3 . 00:50, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Reservation Tables
There's some confusion caused by having some tweaks on the normal resevation table. Some users don't see the second reservations on the upper table and take projects that are already reserved unknowingly. I think it would be clearer if we just expanded the tweak table to have two slots per user. Does anyone agree?

I agree completely. I suggested this before, but the discussion was archived. XDThe only problem with this is we'll have to have someone keeping tabs on who has two tweaks reserved, so they don't reserve a third image. What if we just combined the tables, made two spaces for tweaks on the tops table and leave the one for reservation? That would make it a lot easier to check and make sure nobody has 3 images reserved. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  18:45, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

That makes sense. Good idea. 18:50, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Good idea. I didn't even notice it before x3 20:14, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Oh yeah and shouldn't we put that no one should have 3 images reserved in the guidelines? 20:18, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Probably, but that isn't up to me. The rules are shuffling around at the moment. 20:26, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I think that's a fine idea, Paleclaw. 02:14, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. Good idea. Just to clarify: you're saying we should merge the tables, correct? 06:40 Fri Oct 28

Yep. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  08:21, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

We'll have to put up a notice, though, making sure that users are aware that only warriors and up can do tweaks. New users might get confused otherwise. 13:33, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Okay i modified the table, please move all your reservations to the correct place so the old table can be deleted. 23:29, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Can't someone just move them all? Seems a bit odd to just wait for everyone to see this message. Unless you think someone would upject to having their reservation moved up? 23:20, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I moved them, however I didn't delete the tweaking table just yet to see if there are any objections. 23:28, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I deleted the old table. Just a thought: shouldn't we add the "date added" column after the "original" column? It might make more sense 'cause we don't need dates for tweaks. 00:47 Sun Oct 30

Videos in specific sections
Are we allowed to make videos for specific sections of the apprentice tutorials? Like, make a video JUST focussing on, say, lineart changes, or layers or something, then place them in THAT section, instead of the videos section? Cause I wanna make a video, but there's so much I want to cover, it wouldn't all fit in one, so I was hoping to be able to make small videos focussing on just specific areas. Would that be possible? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  20:36, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I think it'd be cool if you made a video, but it's not my decision. 02:15, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see why not. And hey, I made a video for it, why can't you? 16:46, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Stolen blank..?
Um, I didn't know where else to take this, but somebody has stolen one of the blanks and claimed it as theirs. Lolly Treat 05:07, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. I've warned them, and if it's not gone within 24 hours, they're being reported to dA for art theft. 05:10, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, that reminds me as well, please report anyone using the image as a deviation, but if they have the image as their avatar, we cannot get them removed unless you are the person who made it. Who made the warrior blanks? 17:57, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Hi Again
I've been on a little hiatus, and I'd like to join back in, if y'all will take me. :) 13:59, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Hi Moonflight and welcome back! :) 14:03, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back Moonflight! 14:08, October 29, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Hey, Moonflight. Welcome back. I'll add you back in now. =) 15:17, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back Moonflight :) 15:29, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Wow, so many old users returning! Welcome back! 15:31, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back Moonflight! :D 15:35, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome Back! 16:25, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Hi, welcome back! ^-^

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  18:58, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Crookedstar
Would Crookedstar get an alt for his coloring in Cats of the Clans? I think he should, and I think we should use his old approved image. I'm going to go ahead and reserve it just in case we decide he needs a new image because I love him so much, but I think the old image would be good for his alt. Comments? 17:49, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I have an issue with this. Not with you doing the alternate leader - go right ahead - but with Crookedstar's images in general. His kit and apprentice don't match his leader, deputy, etc. Now, I know that we won't do his apprentice until the blank is done, but what about his kit? I looked and it seems that his kit was tweaked in July. Should it be tweaked again to match? As for you using his old leader, I personally think you should make a new one. Use the colours from his current leader and add cream to it; it'll be more enjoyable for you that way. 17:58, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Well, Icestorm is supposed to tweak his kit, so that's why his kit is different. That also reminds me too, with the apprentices sometimes being so different from redone images, should we just take the apprentice images out (such as Crookedstar and Goldenflower) so as to not confuse people? 18:00, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I say remove the apprentice images from the articles, that way people don't complain about them not matching. I see this from annoyn. users a lot, and it gets annoying. 18:02, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should just for the ons who've been tweaked majorly though, like if they match (such as Bluestar's) then it should be left alone for now. That's just my thought though 18:04, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that's a good idea. Ones like Bluestar, Dustpelt and Cloudtail would stay, but ones like Creekfeather, Crookedstar and Goldenflower would be removed. After all, those ones don't match at all. 18:08, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I like this idea. It makes me annoyed (for lack of a better word) to see inconsistencies in charart. 18:15, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I like the idea, it definatly won't be as (if it is at all) confusing to users, and annoyn. users too. 18:34, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

FAIL. I'm sorry about the kit, I forgot about that. I promise I'lk get to it, soon. 19:13, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

But wouldn't the anons wonder why there isn't an apprentice charart? Just saying. 23:52, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

They would, but if they frequent the wiki and stalk it like I did, they would know that some of the images were being removed. 15:18, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Talon
Talon of Swooping Eagle is light brown In Cats of The Clans, does he get an alt for that? 19:31, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Were doing Cats of The Clans alts, so that's my guess. 20:02, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Seems a bit iffy... it could have just been the lighting making his coloring look a bit different. 23:21, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Runningnose
Does Runningnose get an alt for med. cat from Cats of The Clans? He was a gray tom with a white muzzle and chest. So does he get an alt for that? 20:24, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

He needs a reference on his page. 20:26, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I'll add that in now. I was thinking about that too, but I think some other leads said no because he is already gray and white. In my opinion, pelt style and pelt colors tie in together. If you ask me, I think he should, but we should wait and see what the other leads think. 20:28, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm.. you have a point, Splashpelt. What if, say, Tigerstar, who has a black muzzle, was described with a black paw, or a black chest? I have no issue with Runningnose getting an alternate, but I'd love to see what other people think. 20:47, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Wait, so do I do it, or not? :/ 20:56, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Just wait until others have their say. 20:59, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think he'd get one, because the charart is only the artist's vision of what the cat might look like. For all we know, that may be what the Erins wanted Runningnose to look like, because gray and white doesn't always mean gray and white spots. He could have a style like Magpie or Jagged Lightning. 21:14, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Makes sense, and I agree. My example wasn't that great, since the black muzzle is just a marking instead of his actual pelt colour. But you're right, Runningnose probably doesn't need one. 21:20, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Squirrelflight looks almost a reddish brown color and the stripes don't look like the ones I did. If we did one for him, we'd having to do one for every cat ever getting an official picture. Not trying to sound mean but his description never specified where the colors would be. 22:00, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think he should get one; if anything, I think we should redo his charart so it resembles his CotC image. <span style="">01:26 Sun Oct 30

Oh, ok. 10:13, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

On Alts
I think we need to be a bit clearer on what constitutes an alt and what doesn't. That's just me, however.

On a similar note, I'm wondering how it is that we decide what is a mistake in descriptions and what isn't. My confusion came from comparing Willowshine's description against Redwillow's. For Redwillow we did not take into account the likelyhood that being described with a tawny head, most likely meaning he was entirely tawny, was a mistake. For Willowshine, it's entirely possible that she is either a dark or light gray tabby, but we have plain alts for both dark and light gray.

I know this may seem silly, I just want some clarification as to how this wiki goes about deciding what's a mistake and what isn't. 23:34, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I think I see what you mean, about Redwillow. You're right, it wouldn't seem like he'd have a tawny head out of nowhere. He'd probably get an alt for being plain tawny. 00:54, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

AH, thank you, Shellheart. I was thinking the same thing not too long ago. I always thought that Redwillow should've had a tawny alt, and that Willowshine should've had a specific shade from the beginning. Maybe take into account how many times she's been called light vs dark and use the one that's been used the most. Then she can have an alt for the opposite shade. <span style="">01:24 Sun Oct 30

That sounds like the most logical thing, Wildheart. I've always felt that cats should have descriptions based on what they are called most. I could go into the Dovewing's eyes debate here, but I choose not to. 01:39, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Dovewing... Yeah, let's not start that. xD But yeah, I agree with you. I've always found the Willowshine thing confusing myself... 01:41, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

FirestarGoesMeow ~ Join Request
Hi~ This is FirestarGoesMeow, and I was wondering if I could join PCA. :3 It looks like something really fun and something that will keep me entertained because I never get requests on DeviantArt. ilovecookies 00:20, October 30, 2011 (UTC) FirestarGoesMeow

I put a heading in for you to avoid confusion. 00:52, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome to PCA, FirestarGoesMeow. Please take a look at the guidelines and the apprentice tutorials before you start editing/making chararts. I'll add you in. <span style="">00:57 Sun Oct 30

Tweak Comment Rules
I'm finding issues with the rule that you're not allowed to comment on an issue on an image that has been tweaked/nominated for something entirely different. Often if someone comments on an issue, that means that there has been an issue in the first place; why should it not be tweaked? I hope we can change the rule so that if you tweak an image, people can comment on any issue with the image, and not just the ones it was nominated/tweaked for. I'm tired and can't explain what I mean so coherently, so if you're confused as to what I mean, please ask and I'll try to clarify. <span style="">01:16 Sun Oct 30

I think I'm agreeing with you on this one. If there's an tweaked image up and you see something that should most likely be fixed but was not nominated for, then you should be able to suggest the artist to fix it. 01:37, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I don't really like this... I mean, if you're only trying to fix the shading or something, but then you get told the stripes are unnatural or something....then it just creates more work. I hate it when people tell me to fix something that isn't why it was put on the tweak list. Eh, whatever. I know what you mean, and I'm on either side. I hate it, but I guess it could work out. 01:39, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

If theres something that you think theres wrong with, and that it wasnt nominated for, then it should've been in the first place. Id say the rule is fine, just that people should be more descriptive when nominating. - 01:43, October 30, 2011 (UTC) I say, if you're tweaking earpink and someone comments to blur the shading, you do it anyways. I mean, if there's something wrong with the image, you fix it. That's what tweaking's for. =p -- 02:36, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Cloudskye: I get that it creates extra work, but honestly, Splashy's right. That is exactly why I want a rule change. Bloo: Often people don't look at the list all that extensively. If someone sees a file name on the list: something that's been nominated for, say, shading, they might just assume that that's all that's wrong with it, without looking at the actual image itself. Then, when it's put up, they realize that the earpink and the stripes are off, too, and they need to be fixed, but what are you going to do? The rule really restricts that. <span style="">06:01 Sun Oct 30

I also think the rule should be changed. However, it should be up to the artist tweaking the image whether they comply with certain requests. For instance if someone asks for them to tweak the ear-pink and the image hasn't been nominated for that, the artist can refuse. (If that makes sense) 09:16, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Cody
Should Cody's kittypet image be tweaked to remove the collar? She told Leafpool that she had taken her collar off so she was never actually seen wearing one. 09:38, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Good point. I would think so. Birdpaw's kittypet image is like that. 16:50, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Wind
Does Wind get a queen charart? We know she must have had kits, because she had decendants, and we don't kow if she had any littermates. 10:50, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Plus on her page it said Gorsestar was her mate. 11:32, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Its up for approval :-) Leaf-storm,11:43,October 30,2011 (UTC)

Oops, fail xD 12:06, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Leopardstar
Would she get an alternate leader charart? Though it was never confirmed, it is possible that she was shown as a golden tabby on the cover of Cats of the Clans. Though some have argued that it might have been Crookedstar or Brokenstar or something.. What do you think? (sorry if this has been discussed before)

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  14:46, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

And she was also seen again as a golden tabby on page 62.

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  14:47, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure. She's already a golden tabby, it's just she's a SPOTTED golden tabby. We'd just be removing the spots (which she may actually have, since we never saw a full body picture), and I don't think that's major enough. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  16:16, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I saw that picture, and it doesn't look like there's actually stripes on her. I can sorta see the spots, but not the tabby markings. 16:24, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

There's tabby markings on her face in that picture. 16:47, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

But only on her face. I don't see any along her back. Only small patches of darker fur. 16:48, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I also noticed that.. But would she still get an alt.?

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  00:25, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Icicle
Would Icicle get a loner charart? On her page, it says she's a loner. Just wondering. :3 16:39, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

That could be debatable, because as far as I know, she wasn't over six moons old.... Only loners over six moons old get the loner charart, I think. 16:43, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Birdpaw Apprentice
I think Birdpaw should get an apprentice charart. She's an apprentice, not just a previous kittypet. She's back to Apprentice as far as we know, but honestly, she never stopped being one. She needs an apprentice charart. ~Regifloat222 Riverstar, Leader of the Thunder Snipes! 20:44, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Yes. We know. The apprentice blanks are going to be changed though, so no more apprentice chararts can be put up currently. She will get an apprentice charart when the new blanks are done. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 20:46, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I only put her kittypet image on her article so we would have something on there as her main image. 20:48, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Uh.. I think you put up the wrong picture..

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  21:27, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

It's fixed :) 23:26, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Guess Who's Back... :3
Pffff... I couldn't stay away. So I'm returning. For now. ;D 23:24, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Added in. Welcome back! =D 23:26, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back Rainwhisper! :D 23:27, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Psh, I knew you were gonna come back. Welcome back Rainy! 00:09, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, welcome back. Another awesome lead! 00:14, October 31, 2011 (UTC)