Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

=Discussion=

Brokenstar being blind?
Shouldn't his description of being blind be removed as he has had his blindness restored in the Dark Forest?

 Starry  Hawk Meow... 03:27, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

No. He died blind ouo 09:30, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

So? Not like death means anything anymore. 01:33, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Good point^^. If his sight's been restored, I don't think it's considered part of the description anymore...

But isn't that his afterlife? Shouldn't his description include his description /at death/? Not after, not way before. 21:55, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Longtail's sight was restored after he died; wasn't it? Shouldn't it be the same for Brokenstar? -- Starry  Hawk Meow... 03:36, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Did we remove blindness from Longtail's description? I see no reason to do so with Brokenstar. 23:56, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

Longtail's blindness was removed, it looks like. Should we remove it from Brokenstar, too? Jun 27, 2012; 16:04pm

I personally think we should add the blindness part back into Longtail's article, and keep it in Brokenstar's article. -- 17:54, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Oh wait, I thought Longtail's was removed for lack of spoilers.... but in that case, I don't know why Brokenstar's is there..... *shrugs* No clue. 23:27, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

But Brokenstar's case of being blind would also cause spoilers. 23:42, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

We got rid of it for Longtail so we should get rid of it for Brokenstar. Sincerely: ChanCharm (Talk) 07:55, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Longtail's failing sight was removed because of spoilers, because it happened after the original series, in FQ, but Brokenstar's blindness was inflicted in Fire and Ice, so it doesn't really count as a spoiler. It's cited and non-spoiler, so I think it should stay. 08:00, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe we should include "formerly blind" in their Brokenstar's (and if you want to agree with me since these pages have spoiler tags, Longtail's) description? 00:10, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

I doubt it...It's still in the afterlife. 18:11, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

If they're not blind anymore, then that's that. Like Shelly said, death doesn't really mean anything anymore and we see them in the afterlife, sight restored. I think it should obviously be mentioned in its respected section but when they're seen dead, state that their sight was restored. 18:22, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Brackenfur and Thornclaw
I've been meaning to bring this up for a while, but I believe Brackenfur and Thornclaw's descriptions should change by our current standards. Both were first described as ginger, and outside of allegiances descriptions, are almost always described as ginger. Only in the allegiances and a select few times in the book are they actually called golden brown, and since ginger came first, I believe their main descriptions should be changed to that and the golden brown be moved to the trivia. 00:59, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

I've thought the same. But to be thorough we'd have to look through every book they're in and count the number of times each description is used. And, as for Thornclaw, isn't golden just a shade of ginger? I think he'd be fine as is. 14:56, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Thornclaw is golden brown. - 17:53, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, you're right then. He leans more towards brown. 17:57, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

So what are we gonna do? And that way of figuring it out would work for Bracken and Thorn, yes, but then that would have to be how we decided these decisions in all cases similar, and that simply won't work. Say the series was still going with these characters. We'd count the past descriptions of them and decide which is mentioned most. But if it's near equal, which I'm pretty sure it is, then every book or two it would tip the scale to the other description. We'd constantly be switching back and forth from golden-brown to ginger, and that wouldn't work. So we can't use that method in deciding these kind of cases, cause we'll have to work out one for all occasions. I'm not sure what to do, but personally, I though in these kind of cases where there's close to equal descriptions you simply used the first, which would be ginger. *shrugs* Not sure, just what I thought. 06:04, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I think ginger should be used. Both were mentioned as ginger when they first appeared, and outside of the allegiances, are almost always described as ginger. But I think a better way of doing this (because if we did use "went by first", Dovewing's eyes would be blue and the authors often change their opinions after a book is published anyways) would have a user willing to look through the books and mark down each time each were called ginger. It's time consuming, yes, but I believe it's the only way to have a correct, accurate description. Unless someone has a better idea? 23:45, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

As I said in my previous comment, though that would work in this situation, it's not a practical way to handle these situations from now on. If we do that when the next arch comes out, and there's a character like this, each new book the number of times described a certain color will change, and the description will likely change between the two every new book that comes out. I think we should stick by our first described rule unless there's a drastic amount of times described more than the original description, like Tawnypelt for example. Or if there's an author confirmation, like with Dovewing's eye color (which I still think should be golden cause that was first and kate said she was sure, whereas Vicky only thought, but that's another discussion). I can't think of a better way to handle this that wouldn't involve flipping back and forth between descriptions everytime a new book came out. 09:56, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

Excuse me for being in this debate (I'm trying to join), but one of the two, which one is unknown, in Into the Wild was called golden-brown. Firepaw said that a golden-brown tabby kit was injured and bleeding.--  Featherstorm9678   03:37, July 22, 2012 (UTC)Featherstorm9679 o

Reference Check
So, Paleh and I created this in order to help keep track of references on each character's page due to falsified references. How it's planned to work is when you check an article's references, you will add the current date under the "Last Checked" column next to the correct character you checked. Paleh and I also thought about having users separately join this "sub-project" because some users are unaware of how to do references, or just don't concern themselves about it, so it might be a bit iffy on how they went about it. It's pretty simple, so what does everyone think about it? 17:23, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's a great idea, it'll keep everything organized, and help the wiki as a whole. -- 17:31, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

So we just check every single reference on the entire page? I still think that creating a "verified ref" template would be easiest. That way those looking at the page can see that they're verified without having to look at your subpage. 17:40, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea. -- 21:34, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

References are constantly changing such as to an earlier mention or removed due to a false cite or changed to a falsified cite due to a misunderstanding or something. A template wouldn't keep up with those changes. With the subpage, users can look at what references haven't been checked in a while. Also, with a "verified ref" template, what kind of impression would that give off to those users who are looking at this wiki for information, or to Kate? 23:49, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

It would give the impression that we care about the references and want them to be as accurate as possible. 19:57, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

It would also give the impression that despite citing things, we can't always be reliable with our information. Though that's true, we're trying to fix that, and it's not a good rep to have about the site. 00:27, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

I support this idea. Jun 26, 2012; 01:17am

I love this idea, actually...well done. 14:54, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

I like this idea too. 03:17, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

What about for those of us that don't own every single book? Because some pages do cite references from every book in the main story (OS, NP, PO3, OOTS), and most people don't own or have access to all of them at once. But if they want to use this table, then what are they to do? They can't say the cites are verified if they can't verify every one. It should be fair, and every cite should be checked, not every one on a page all at once. 03:55, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Then perhaps we can have another row in the table where people can mark the books that have been checked, in case they don't have access to them all. I don't know, just an idea. 04:30, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

I also support this idea, I also like both of Loonie and Paleh's ideas. 18:56 Thu Jul 12

This is a good idea, and Paleclaw, I like your idea since some people including myself don't own every book and we can share the checking. Sincerely: ChanCharm (Talk) 08:07, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

This is an excellent idea ^^ 00:19, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

I really like Paleh's idea, it would make references even more accurate. 03:05, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Little Mew, Birdy, Pad, and Raindrop
Me and a couple other users in chat were talking about this. The cites from these pages are removed because they weren't mentioned specifically (only Little Mew was), however, Husker introduces them in the order they stand in on page 34 of Warrior's Refuge. (Birdy, Pad, Raindrop, Little Mew) I know it's them from their description. Should we go ahead and cite it, or should we not, since it hasn't been mentioned specifically? 18:28, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we should because we don't know for a fact that they were standing in that order. =3 22:54, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Those whose genders and descriptions were never directly stated shouldn't have chararts/descriptions on their pages. It's assuming, something we're trying to crack down on. e.e

Clovertail
Me again o3o So I had Icy look through Firestar's Quest for me, and Clover was never called a rogue, nor were her kits. She never hurt anyone, and she was never aggressive. So shouldn't she and her kits be listed as loners instead of rogues? If it is mentioned and we couldn't find it, just tell me and I can add it to the article. But so far we've had no luck. 03:40, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Wait. Could this count?

Firestar turned to see the pale brown she-cat guiding three kits toward them, her tail curled protectively around them, a black tom, a ginger tom, and a tiny white she-cat. "I'm Clover," the she-cat announced. "And these are Rock, Bounce, and Tiny." Sandstorm dipped her head. "I'm Sandstorm, and this is Firestar." Firestar turned to the other rogue, waiting for him to introduce himself.

This was when Firestar and Sandstorm met Clover and Scratch. Firestar said he looked at the other rogue, which implied both of them were rogues? -is still looking through the book- 03:43, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

And then, I have this:

"No, that's all right," Firestar meowed, surprised that the former loner had heard about the custom of keeping vigil. "Kits don't need to stay awake."

Firestar talking about Clovertail, on page 350. Which one do we use? 03:48, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Uhm...just my input, but maybe she could count as both a rogue and a loner. I think there was a cat or two like that... 18:29, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Dazzle. It was implied that she was called a rogue, and she was definetely caleed a former loner. I think she should get both. 18:38, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with both Rowan and Dazzle, she was said to be both, so she should be called both. owo 18:42, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

I agree that she should be called both. It makes sense to me. 23:08, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Leafstar's the same. Firestar scents her as a rogue when he first meets her, but in SkyClan's Destiny she calls herself a loner. Should she get both too? 18:25, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. If we're going with both for Clovertail, I believe Leafstar should get the same. 23:49, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

I also agree that Leafstar gets both. As for Clovertail, are we allowed to add "loner" to her charcat? 02:31, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

If she was called a loner, then I don't see why we can't add to her charcat. Same goes for Leafstar. If there's book evidence of both ranks, then that's what they get, do they not? 02:42, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I found the cite where Clovertail was called a loner, but it says former loner. I can add it in once I get the okay. 02:46, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Does this mean they'll get chararts too? 02:53, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, as they're ranks we have blanks for. Why wouldn't they? If we can cite it, and it's not a false cite, I think it's charart worthy. For all we know, they really could have been both.. Firestar may have thought they were rogues, but perhaps to themselves, they were loners.

Minor - Taking Over
When people have too many nominations up, or can't work on an article they give it up, and let someone else take it. But I thought we could fix the title from "Silver Nomination" to "Up for grabs" or something like that. This is really minor but I think it owuld help than having someone say they don't want to work on it, and people not see it, so it just gets archived rather than someone taking over. So yeah, any thoughts on this? 22:09 Sun Jul 8

I think we should just change the heading to "withdrawn", if anything. Since essentially, they're withdrawing their nomination.

Maybe "Available for Others?" Just thinking of different ideas here. x3 23:53, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

I think withdrawn would make sense. If an artist in PCA stops working on an image or "gives up" it's title is changed to withdrawn (or at least I think so. I'm not in PCA.) I don't see why it has to be different. 23:57, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

I like the Withdraw one. (Just saying) 00:04 Mon Jul 9

How about just marking it as "Open"? It's not quite withdrawn, since that would imply the user choosing to not work on it anymore, and up for grabs, or available for others or something is a bit long. 10:47, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

This is a good idea. To add a suggestion, "available" would work too. I don't think we should remove "silver nomination" from the headers, though. Maybe just tack "open/withdrawn/available" on the end in parentheses so they say "Randomfur - Silver/Gold Nomination (Enter Favorite Term Here)"? 02:01, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

I think that would work wonderfully, Hollydapple. Great idea. ;3 I agree with you that the heading should remain "typed" as Silver Nomination also. 01:22 Sat Jul 14

Heh, yeah. Honestly, I still don't see this necessary. Yes, many users are "withdrawing" their nominations, but quite frankly, is it that hard to scroll down? That's why I suggested to separate the talk page and this is basically making things easier for already lazy people. Plus, I personally think that having people go through all the nominations allows (or more of forces) users to look through each nomination and also look to see if there are anymore last minute comments. My two cents. (Going along with my distaste for turning PC more into PCA) 18:23, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with 'Teldy on this one. Do we really need to make things easier? It's worked fine how it is for the longest time, and no one's really said a word about it. The talk page and nomination separation makes this easy enough as it is...If you can't take the extra five seconds to scroll down...

Mistystar and Bluestar's shade of grey
I was thinking, neither of them have a specified shade of grey in their description currently. But they've both been described as pale or dark. How come whichever shade came first (Idk if it goes chronologically or whichever books actually came out first) isn't in their descriptions? Skt Omnia vincit amor  02:19, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's because pale or dark could depend on lighting, but I don't actually know. 15:55, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Well blue-gray is kind of a shade, and they're never called light blue-gray or dark blue-gray, or even just dark or light by themselves. IT's specifically, dark or light gray. I'm not sure if that made sense, but basically, unless they're mentioned as dark or light blue-gray, or dark or light without the gray, I think they should just be left.... 06:07, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

Redtail
Me... again. So there was a time skip in Bluestar's Prophecy. Before it, Redpaw was an apprentice. After, he was deputy. I can't seem to find anywhere he's called a warrior. I think it should be removed. If anyone else can find it, by all means, tell me. 02:51, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I've searched for it time and time again, and I too was unable to find it. I agree, that it should be taken down. 02:54, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, good point... I don't think it was ever said. I think it was assumed because he was deputy, that he automatically counted as a warrior too.

Page Limit
Okay. PC is a wonderful project and all. I understand.

But the amount of nominations that's pouring in is too much. Right now, there are /30/ nominations - and a computer like mine is unresponsive to that. And some users have as much as 4 nominations up at once and they can't even work on them due to the amount of work (and not to mention real life) they're given. So, due to the facts I have stated, I am proposing a page limit and a nomination limit. I'm not going to give out what I suggested due to the fact there is no agreement, but I would like to hear everyone's opinion. So, thoughts?Agreement? Disagreement? 19:24, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I can agree with this. At times, there are just too many nominations, and at times, I think that the sheer amount can cause some to go unnoticed or not get any feedback for a while. I'm not quite sure about a limit, I'd think 25 or 20 for nominations and 15 for discussion? Although it's great to be dedicated to the project, but I thought the limit was three. 21:00, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion has no limits. There's no reason to limit discussion. But I agree; 20 nominations at a time. 21:04, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Don't see any reason wh discussion should have a limit. But I believe 20 nominations is good - and maybe 2/3 for each user. 21:08, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

The guidelines say that users should only have three. So anyone who has four up right now is breaking the rules... 21:09, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Three nominations for each user is what the guidelines say, and I'll probably go through and check to see if anything needs cleaning up... as for the nomination limit, I think 30 would be good, since like Icy's computer, mine lags as well if there's too much on a page.

30 might be too much. There's 30 (for the nominations) now - and it's still killing my computer. Dx 21:16, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

This is a good idea. Before the page split we had to dig through nominations to find discussion, but now I have to dig through nominations to find my nomination. I think 20 will be good. Maybe no more nominations until all of them that are current are done. 13:51, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Twenty sounds great, but I think we should move the amount of nominations down to two per user at a time, so other users will also have a chance to put up their nominations and besides that, we only have 137 pages left to nominate in the project and seven of them can't be nominated until Yellowfang's Secret comes out, also 29 of those are already nominated, so basically there is only 101 pages to nominate at this time and more users are joining or re-joining. I hope that made since. owo 16:30, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

A nomination limit sounds good. However, I think twenty five would be a good maximum, but that's just what I think. You know; projects go throught active, semi-active, and inactvie phases. Right now, PC is active, and another time, it can be inactive. 18:41, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Personally I think 25 is good. It's not low or high. I think a user should still be able to have 3 nominations at a time, but they should know to let newer users have a chance to put up nominations too. 19:08, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think 25 is good - but I'm debating on two or three nominations, as Duck said, there are only 101 pages left to nominate, and we want to give the new users a chance. I think two sounds more orderly - there won't be as much clutter. 18:41, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

I think 25 is good also. But I think we should let all of the nominations that are up currently get voted on and then put it into effect. Just so everyone has a chance to get there nominations voted on. There shouldn't be a limit on discussion, especially if it's urgent or a big help to the project. If there is going to be a new series coming out we will have more than 100+ nominations, but the rule of 3 nomintaions per user should stay in effect. It's a good number and quite fair for everyone. The votes that are currently up, are almost done so that'll be down to about 25 nominations, so we could maybe stop people from nominating until this is official/decided. 18:47 Thu Jul 12

Good point, Sweet. I agree with you, but maybe we should wait until 'Teldy's back, to see her view on this? 18:46, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, and I completely agree with you, and we should get Moonflight to check this out too, seeing as she is leader. <span style="">18:50 Thu Jul 12

Hm...I don't know if we'd be able to get Moonflight. She hasn't edited since the 11th, and when I tried to email her, I got no response. 19:11, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Sweetflower pretty much covered what I had to say...twenty-five sounds good to me. 22:05, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Buzz kill here. Sorry, but I (partially) disagree. For one, users who have four nominations shouldn't have four but only three. Users should also be aware of how much work they can load on themselves and if a nomination goes inactive, it's archived. As for computer lagging, in all frankness, that sounds like a personal problem, (heh, being honesty, not being all "rawr" because I want to be mean), but your point with the lack of comments and nominations being bypassed I can see the truth in that. In short, I don't care much for limits, but I do agree that a line must be drawn to prevent paucity of comments. And perhaps that's my fault for not strongly enforcing the 3-weeks time a nomination should be up. 02:51, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Allegiance Only Characters
OK, so one day I was bored and I was going through old nominations and forums and I couldn't find one for Pinenose, whom I really wanted to nominate. I know at first she was an allegiance-only character but then she appeared, so does she, and Starlingwing, and others still deserve silver status or not? =3 16:36, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm... I'm pretty sure that you can nominate allegiance only characters. I've nominated one before, and the nomination went fine. The only different thing is that you don't do much with them unlike characters who appeared quite some times. 18:38, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

I've never done it, but I'm pretty sure you can still nominate allegiance only characters. 19:10, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

-headdesk- Nevermind, I could have promised that it said you didn't have to nominate allegiance only characters in the guidelines, but I just re-checked, and it doesn't say that. 19:57, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

But..... I've read that before too. 0.o I'm sure I did. I read that they don't need to be nominated, they can just be changed to silver... 06:04, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

o.o The way I remember it was that you couldn't nominate an Allegiance Only Characters because they never really did anything, but they were there. Erm, I think we're going to have to ask 'Teldy. <span style="">23:43 Thu Jul 12

This project also has a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) page. And I honestly believe that any user on this wiki can put in six equal signs, type up a book name, and put in the alleg template. Correct me if I'm completely wrong and that adding that information in takes so much concentration and focus that only a small population of the users on the wiki can do that. Also, I'm going to take this opportunity to say, if you see anything that is on the FAQ that is not on the guidelines that you think is not obvious, please contact a lead. Thanks. 02:51, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Lilykit or Seedkit
Now, forgive me for not knowing which exact page and which exact character was mentioned this way, but in The Last Hope, either Lilykit or Seedkit was mentioned as having a tortoiseshell pelt. Not only does that co-onside with the original description, their allegiance description was only mentioned once. Should tortoiseshell become the main description and their allegiance just be in the trivia? As an example, Kestrelflight has had a wrong allegiance description for this arc, but he's still gray-brown with white splotches, the first and most frequent description of him. 22:49, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm... I'll help you find the page as I have a copy at hand. If she /is/ actually described as a tortoiseshell in that book.... well, this kind of is the same thing as Thornclaw/Brackenfur discussion... seen in the allegiences as golden brown but actually called ginger in the books. So, whatever the outcome of that discussion should probably serve as the outcome for this. (Assuming this is an actual cite) I'll look for it tonight if I have time. 00:25, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

She is. I've checked it. 00:28, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Which one? 00:37, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Lilykit. 01:25, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Rippletail's Alt.
So I guess this goes here:

On Rippletail's page in the trivia section is says: The Refrence looks like this:
 * In Twilight, Ripplepaw was mistakenly mentioned by Reedwhisker as a she-cat.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-po5156_4-0">[5]
 * Rippletail was mistakenly described as silver.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-po5156_4-1">[5]
 * 5. 5.0 5.1 Revealed in Long Shadows, page 156

There are two problems, one the refrence is to Long Shadows not Twilight so which is it from? (I don't have the book with me.) And two, if the ref is in fact from Long Shadows he was a warrior at that time so the charart should be a warrior she-cat not an apprentice (unless the refs are from seperate books then it would be a warrior tom).

If I had the books with me I would check myself but since I don't I would really appreciate if someone would and solve this problem. 23:37, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, fortunately I have Twilight. It only says Rippletail(paw) is a she cat, nothing about being silver. 23:41, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

I just check page 156 of Long Shadows...and that page features nothing about Rippletail. If he was described as silver, it wasn't on that page. 00:02, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Bear with me...
Ok. Bear with me for a moment. I may not be a member of PCA or PC, but I think Dappletail's deaf kit should have an article and charart, because Dappletail has a queen image, and the kit is mentioned and exists. We know his description, (white with blue eyes), please take this into consideration. I strongly think this should happen.--<span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000)); -moz-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000));">  Featherstorm9678   04:30, July 18, 2012 (UTC)Featherstorm9678

Also, what are the requirements for joining PC? I would like to join.--<span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000)); -moz-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000));">  Featherstorm9678   04:42, July 18, 2012 (UTC)Featherstorm9678

I think that this kit should get a charart. It could be named Dappletail's Kit or something like that. We've made article pages for Shellheart's Grandfather, so why not? 04:43, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the support Rowie! *huggles* Also, could you go to WCCRPW for a moment?--<span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000)); -moz-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000));">  Featherstorm9678   04:46, July 18, 2012 (UTC)Featherstorm9678

I agree with this. Dappletail's Kit sounds like a suitable title. Also, next time please put this under the discussion area of this page. :3 18:33, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Mmmm....Is there any actual history with this character? 20:39, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

We already have a page with him. His name is Snowkit 21:41, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Never mind, I thought that he was the kit of Speckletail. *Derp moment* But he does seem exactly the same as Snowkit. 21:42, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Guys, this isn't Snowkit. Snowkit was Speckletail's kit, not Dappletail's. They were talking about being thankful that Cloudtail wasn't blind, as it's common with white cats who have blue eyes; then Dappletail's kit was mentioned.

I don't think he should get one then. I think a lot of people are assuming that he/she is white with blue eyes. It's common that they are, but not all cats that are deaf are white with blue eyes(I think). 12:31, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Hm, actually, since they are mentioned, I think they should get a page. Gender, fur colour and eye colour is said, which is enough for an article, so, yes, I personally think he should get an article. And Dappletail'sl Kit sounds good for the title. 12:46, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Here's the quote if you want proof:

Dappletail: ''White cats with blue eyes are often deaf. I remember one of my first litter...''

She did have one. 16:24, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

It didn't have a gender, did it? Then it wouldn't get a charart. But yes, I think it should get an article. 16:42, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

He did. Dappletail says that it was a he right after. Fireheart as well. 16:54, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Who made the page? It rocks! Also, could I have the requirements and regulations for joining PC?--<span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000)); -moz-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000));">  Featherstorm9678   02:38, July 21, 2012 (UTC)Featherstorm9678

We never decided that Dappletail's Kit would be getting a page. Just because one or two users think that he should get a page, does not represent community consensus. In fact, I personally don't think there's enough information for a page. He's got no name, and is mentioned once.

Requirements and regulations please...--<span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000)); -moz-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000));">  Featherstorm9678   02:52, July 21, 2012 (UTC)Featherstorm9678

I don't mean to sound ignorent, Skye, but if this kit wouldn't get an article for only being mentioned once, why do Shellheart's Grandfather, Sol's Father, Leafstar's Mother and Darkfoot get articles? They've only appeared/been mentioned once, and they have articles Gah, now I sound ignorent x.x 06:42, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Sol's Father actually appeared in the graphic novels, and was a key reason as to why Cinders left her kits. Shellheart's Grandfather, although unnamed, was also a key cat in why Mapleshade went crazy. Darkfoot was mentioned in two books, Starlight and Secrets of the Clans. And I know for a fact each of them were mentioned more than once.

But Dappletail's kit is a mentioned character in the book. I also think it would stop confusion. Some of our users thought that he was Snowkit, when they are two completely different cats. 15:59, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

If we mention every single character mentioned in the series that has no impact whatsoever on the actual plot of the arc/series, then this wiki would be full of "Pinestar's Kit" or "Mapleshade's Kit"/"Mapleshade's Kit 2". Sorry, but I don't see that having a description qualifies an unknown kit to have a page. 02:25, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Teldy and Cloudy, he wasn't sigifigant to the plot. 02:33, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Requirements and regulations... He should get a page.--<span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000)); -moz-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000));">  Featherstorm9678   03:08, July 22, 2012 (UTC)Featherstorm9678

What do you mean "requirements and regulations"? You mean the guidelines and FAQ? Because neither of those pages say anything about what qualifies and what doesn't qualify as reasons to make a character's article. And "he should get a page" is not a valid reason for why this kit should get a page as it's an opinionated statement. 03:18, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

I mean for joint the PC goofy.XDDD *flicks ear* :)--<span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000)); -moz-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000));">  Featherstorm9678   03:26, July 22, 2012 (UTC)Featherstorm9678

I still think he should get a page. Like Rowan said, it would avoid confusion with Snowkit and he's an example as to why white cats with blue eyes are often born deaf. So, I believe he should get a page x3 03:30, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, how can they be confused? They have two different mothers...... Snowkit is Speckletail's kit, not Dappletail's. e.e

I don't think anyone's going to get confused with Snowkit. Dappletail's kit was mentioned once, in passing, and if we hadn't started this discussion, I never would've remembered him. Snowkit was Brambleclaw's friend, Speckletail's kit, the one that got carried away by an eagle. Dappletail's kit is not important enough. 03:32, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Earlier, you said he should get one. After Rowan said, She did have one.. Also, would I have to have finished all the books to join (I'm only at Dawn)?--<span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000)); -moz-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000));">  Featherstorm9678   03:41, July 22, 2012 (UTC)Featherstorm9678

But I changed my mind. I am allowed to do that, you know. Also, if you have any questions about PC that don't have to do with this discussion, please start a new heading and ask them there. You're directing discussion away from what it should be centred on. 04:05, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Toggle's Done!
Alright, in case you guys haven't noticed, the toggle feature on the charcats is finished and in use! It can be used in two situations: When a character has more than one rank at a time, or when a character has an alternate description that's used as often or nearly as often as their main description, like Mapleshade and her tortie description.

So, yeah... have fun. :3 15:59, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

The Captain
OK, so I was wondering would he get a page? Sasha lived with him and he was a very important character in all of Escape From The Forest. owo 02:36, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

If Sol's Twoleg does, why wouldn't he? Does he happen to have a name, aside from The Captain?

The buisness that he owned was called Captain Bandy's Boat Yard, but besides that no, not that I see. 02:42, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

=Nominations=

Smokefoot ~ Silver Nomination
Kay, I know this one isn't taken.

Anyway, all I could see to do was expand The Sight a tiny bit. Comments? 02:25, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand The Last Hope, Eclipse, and Fading Echoes any? ☛Duc kspl  ash☚  17:03, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Are there any more quotes? Expand The Sight/detail it. 00:13, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Is this still being worked on? 16:51, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

I can work on it if Shellheart's not gonna work on it anymore. 20:56, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I completely forgot I was doing this one. I'll work on it tomorrow when I get a minute. 18:01, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Uhg, never mind. Icestorm can have this since she's already started working on it. I haven't the books to work on it at the moment anyway. However, I saw nothing to expand with Fading Echoes, at least. 23:59, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry Shelly. I didn't see that you continued to work on it. -should check things more often- 00:02, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

It's fine. It's not about the number of nominations you get done. It just matters that the nominations get done. If you can do it, I'm happy to let you, because at the moment I cannot. 00:09, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, thank you. And you're right.

Anyways, I expanded Fading Echoes, Sunrise, The Last Hope, The Sight, and Dark River. Eclipse, I can't. 00:34, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Cedarpelt ~ Silver Nomination
Re-wrote and added more description to Bluestar's Prophecy. But other than that, there wasn't much more I could do. Comments? 07:14, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Can you cite the trivia and add, maybe, one more quote? =) «Duc  kspl  ash»  22:08, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Added =3 02:33, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Is it possible to expand the end of the Crookedstar's Promise section a bit? --<font color="#C0C0C0" face="Tempus Sans ITC">Starry Hawk My Talk!  22:25, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

I could only detail it. He doesn't actually appear after he congradulates Crookedstar. 06:23, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Go through the article and add links to names that haven't been linked before if you can. <span style="">18:33 Sun Jul 8

Could you possibly reword the 4th paragraph? It sounds a bit choppy. A transition or two more would help it flow. <span style="">21:55, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Someone else can take this over. I've four nominations up, so, yeah, someone else can take this over x3 08:22, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I can take over, Berryflower - if it's not a problem with you. =) 12:50, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Sure, Icy :3 12:54, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I re-worded Crookedstar's Promise and added links. Anything else? 13:00, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Can you detail the last three paragraphs of Crookedstar's Promise? 22:27, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

No. He doesn't appear that much. 22:36, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

Bone ~ Silver Nomination
Just added a few bits and pieces in~ I'll be adding in a couple more quotes in a second, but anyways, comments? 08:08, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Could you expand RoS a bit?-- 11:22, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Done what I could without the book. I'll grab it from my library tomorrow =3 13:02, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Detail The Darkest Hour and Cats of the Clans. 18:06, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Done what I could to TDH without the book...I'll see when I can get it to detail it some more. Also expanded CoTC a fair bit. 05:47, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Could you possibly put the fourth paragraph of The Darkest Hour in present tense? 13:01, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Done~ 08:11, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

If there are names places ect,. that aren't already linked, please do, we don't want him to be an orphan ;) <span style="">23:52 Sun Jul 15

Jacques- Silver Nomination
I've wanted to nominate him for a while (As in 5 whole minutes) and I could find nothing wrong with his page. Comments? 21:57, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Anymore quotes? 21:59, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

I added the one quote mentioning him in The Forgotten Warrior, but I don't own any of the other books.-- 21:22, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Can you detail The Forgotten Warrior and Secrets of the Clans? <span style="">Jun 27, 2012; 16:05pm

The Forgotten Warrior is as detailed as it can be (He was mentioned in two paragraphs) and I'll try to get Secrets of the Clans from the library.-- 12:09, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

Expand Twilight and Sunset if you can anymore, there was quite the fight. ;3 <span style="">20:46 Sun Jul 8

I'll try to go to the library today to get those. Stupid not owning more then half of the series.-- 12:39, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I expanded Twilight, but I accidentally got Sunset instead of Starlight. *Headdesk*-- 14:13, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Need any help? 15:23, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

I could use some help. Only for Starlight though. I'm guessing you only meant Starlight.-- 17:11, July 10, 2012 (UTC

Yep. Rewrote Starlight. 16:09, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Whitetail ~ Silver Nomination
I feel that her page is ready for Silver Status. =) <font color="#FF0000;">Starry <font color="#FF0000;"> Hawk <font color="#780000;">Meow... 16:43, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Any more quotes? 17:07, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and The Fourth Apprentice and Sunrise could use some expanding. Sorry, forgot to mention that the first time. o3o 17:24, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

I can add quotes and expand The Fourth Apprentice, but I don't have Sunrise. --<font color="#FF0000;"> Starry <font color="#FF0000;"> Hawk <font color="#780000;">Meow... 17:25, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand The Forgotten Warrior any? -- 18:14, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Can The Sight and the entire Omen of the Stars series be expanded a little bit? 15:40, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

I will begin expanding them all (except for Sunrise, as I don't have it) right now. -- Starry Hawk  23:09, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

Are you still working on this? 21:00, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Considering that I have very limited time on the computer for the next week or so, I would like to withdraw this nomination. I'm sure that some other person would be happy to work on the article. If it still stands bronze when I return, I will work on it once more when I return to my own computer after this vacation. Until then, I am unable to fix up and expand Whitetail's history. <span style="">Jul 9, 2012; 00:42am

May I take over? 22:51, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Go ahead. 18:42, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

This might take a while because I only have Sunrise, TLH, and TFW 23:08, July 15, 2012 (UTC) 23:07, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

Cloud - Silver Nomination
I expanded history a little bit and found some quotes. Comments? 17:41, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

Can Outcast be detailed a little bit? 18:43, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand Sign of the Moon a bit more? <span style="">Jun 26, 2012; 20:29pm

Done. 15:26, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Could you add another quote, and expand the history in any other way you can. (If you can) <span style="">20:52 Sun Jul 8

Can you elaborate Outcast a bit more? 18:29, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Done. 20:28, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

Ratscar - Silver Nomination
I like him for some reason, so I'm going to nominate him for silver. Things I need to do? 22:12, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand all of the Omen of The Stars sections? -- 22:15, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

Can you add anymore quotes? 15:24, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Are you still working on this? 21:21, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

No, someone else can have it. I'm being overwhelmed by my lack of computer time and the amount of stuff I have to do. 14:09, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

For whoever is taking this over please expand all sections of the history. <span style="">17:29 Mon Jul 9

Is anyone going to work on this? 10:37, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

I'll take over. =3 19:27, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

I expanded everything and added three more quotes, and before anyone asks Sign of The Moon and The Forgotten Warrior can't be expanded anymore. Oh, and I'm looking for one more quote right now. Anything else? 20:34, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

I added another quote. -- 20:45, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

Hazeltail - Silver Nomination
Been working on this one for a while. Main issue was the history needed expansion. Suggestions? 13:14, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

lol deceased daughter of Brackenfur and Sorreltail. Can Night Whispers and can you detail the last sentence of ''Fading Echoes? 00:02, July 3, 2012 (UTC)''

I know, right? Taken care of. 00:54, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

Could you expand Outcast, Twilight and Eclipse? <span style="">19:05 Sun Jul 8

Sweetflower, I think those are fine. Hazeltail doesn't appear much anyways, either. Expanding the part where Pinepaw pretends to be Hazeltail (and the battle as well) would be beneficial. 13:09, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I can't expand any of those, sorry, Sweetflower, particularly Outcast. The thing with Hazeltail is she's a prominent character in one book and barely makes an appearance in another. Detailed the last sentence of Night Whispers. 14:31, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

Clovertail - Silver Nomination
Fixed it up. ^.^ I can't expand any of the SkyClan and the Stranger sections, before someone asks me to, and I'll expand Battles of the Clans tomorrow. So, comments? 00:58, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

You said you were going to expand Battles of the Clans, so can you cite when she's a rogue? 13:13, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I did expand BotC, and someone added a cite for when she was a rogue...I'll run through my books again, though, and make sure there isn't a better reference. 14:25, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

Volepaw (SC) ~ Silver Nomination
Yet another of Brokenstar's apprentices e3e Expanded Into the Wild and SoTC, comments? <span style="border: 2px solid violet; border-top-left-radius:2ex; border-bottom-left-radius:2ex; border-top-right-radius:2ex; border-bottom-right-radius:2ex;"> 10:24, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Any quotes? 22:58, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Added the only quote I could find. 11:09, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Is there really a need to have kit: unknown? I mean, if we don't know what his kit name is, I believe there's no use in putting that there, or it would make sense to have on every character's charcat to have a kit name. I think it should be removed. 18:25, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

It's because we saw him as a kit; he was only three moons old. See Specklepaw. 18:30, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Ah. Okay. 18:42, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

CBV?

Willowshine ~ Silver Nomination
I feel the page is pretty solid. I looked through it but didn't really find much to add. Comments? 17:36, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand Eclipse, Night Whispers, and Sign of The Moon any? 00:25, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Could you detail and/or expand Dark River? 22:02, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

I expanded Night Whispers and Sign of the Moon. I don't have Eclipse or Dark River at the moment so I will do those when I get them. Anything else? 23:31, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Expanded them. :) 19:47, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand on the dream she and Leafpool had in Sunset?

Dark Whiskers ~ Silver Nomination
Comments? There's not really much else I can do that hasn't already been done...

Expand Long Shadows please. <span style="">00:06 Mon Jul 9

Done.

Whiskernose - Silver Nomination
I expanded his history and added some quotes. Comments? 02:57, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Expand SOTM and add another quote if you can please. <span style="">00:09 Mon Jul 9

He's made a warrior. That's all that happens. And articles don't need a set amount of quotes. 08:30, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think he's got enough quotes. He doesn't say much as it is.

Troutstream - Silver Nomination
I added a few quotes and cleaned up the history a bit. 03:59, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Expand SOTM please. <span style="">00:12 Mon Jul 9

I literally can't. That's all that happens. 08:29, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Mintfur (RC) - Silver Nomination
He was a lot harder to find quotes for... But I tried. Comments? 04:27, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Could you perhaps explain somewhere what happened to his apprentice? 17:53, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Done. 18:05, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Expand SOTM please. <span style="">00:22 Mon Jul 9

Again, I can't. I can't just make stuff happen when it didn't in the book e.e 08:29, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Eeltail ~ Silver Nomination
He's exoanded as much as possib;e, I went through the book and he has no more quotes, unless you would like me to get some narrator quotes that don't describe him whatsoever xD. Comments? <span style="">18:13 Sun Jul 8

Can you maybe find some narrator quotes? 12:35, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Not that describe him at all .<span style="">16:40 Mon Jul 9 16:40, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Husker ~ Silver Nomination
Added a few quotes. Comments? 18:22, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand and/or detail the second paragraph? <span style="">00:00, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Split up the first paragraph. 13:15, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I added a few sentences to the third paragraph (formerly the second paragraph). 16:31, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Could you perhaps add a main quote? I know that he doesn't say much that describes his personality, so it's your choice. :P Also, find a cite for him being a kittypet and a loner. 18:03, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I also expanded the third paragraph with a few more sentences. 19:31, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Split up the paragraphs some more and cite him being a loner and a kittypet. 17:51, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Split up the third paragraph, and (already) gave him those cites. 19:25, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

Hazelstar ~ Silver Nomination
Well, it looks good to me, comments? <span style="">18:29 Sun Jul 8

Is there another quote that can be added? 18:40, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, and I did it! :P <span style="">19:35 Sun Jul 8

Oh, and provide a cite for him being leader. 83 Yeah, we're doing that now. Check this out for further information... >> http://warriors.wikia.com/wiki/Warriors_Wiki_talk:Characters/Archive_73#Senior_warriors_and_citing_ranks 18:06, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I did it. If i did it wrong please tell me ;3 <span style="">18:42 Mon Jul 9

Cite him being in WindClan. 17:52, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Done <span style="">23:29 Sat Jul 14

Shrewfoot ~ Silver Nomination
Lookin' good! :P Comments? <span style="">18:51 Sun Jul 8

Elaborate Battles of the Clans. =3 19:02, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Seriously? You tell me to work on the section of the only book I don't have? :3 Just kidding. I'll get on that. :) <span style="">19:09 Sun Jul 8

Done, after I restore what I accident;y deleted xD <span style="">19:27 Sun Jul 8

Can you detail TLH? -- 22:32, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

o.o Actually, I can't. Thta's literally all it says about her. o3o <span style="">03:43 Mon Jul 16

Twist ~ Silver Nomination
I cleaned up her history a bit, and added the only quote I could find that really describes her. Any comments? 15:52, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Can you detail the history a bit? 15:54, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Detailed as much as I could. 15:22, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Nightstar ~ Silver Nomination
Alright, I expanded it as much as I could. Comments? 18:08, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Are there anymore quotes that can be added? I know he speaks, I'm just not sure what he says. All in all, nice job. Very detailed.

Alright, I added a couple more quotes about him, though I couldn't find many adequet ones from him. 17:59, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Voletooth - Silver Nomination
I love RiverClan. I expanded all of the history and added a quote, everything is expanded to the max and that's all the says. Comments? 23:55, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Are there any narrator quotes that describe him at all? <span style="">23:45 Sun Jul 15

None that really describe him in my opinion. -- 03:23, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Stripes - Silver Nomination
I added quotes awhile ago and I think it looks good. Comments? 00:10, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they have a battle against the Clan and Tribe cats in that book, (or is that in SoTM?) but I remember him being in the battle if it was in that book could you ad dthat to his article? <span style="">23:40 Sun Jul 15

He wasn't mentioned after that but I just added that the group of rogues was attacked and was forced to respect the Tribe's borders. owo -- 03:34, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Midnight ~ Silver Nomination
Woo, I love Midnight. Reminds me of Yoda. So, comments?

Can you expand Twilight? Great job! 01:48, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Woo for tripling the section size. Expanded quite a bit. 8D

Flystar ~ Silver Nomination
Comments? He doesn't actually say anything...so in terms of quotes, I added what I could.

Talon - Silver Nomination
Expanded tenfold and I can promise that even Cats of The Clans can't be expanded. Plus, I added quotes. :3 17:51, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Jag - Silver Nomination
I added a trivia bit, expanded, and I feel as though the only quote worth mentioning is the main one, so comments? 20:46, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Scree - Silver Nomination
Expanded Moonrise, added quotes, and made sure that Scree didn't appear in other books, so comments? 21:11, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Joining
Hi everyone! I would like to know a few things about joining. How do I join? What are the requirements? Do I have to have read the whole series (I'm only at Dawn)?--<span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000)); -moz-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(#0BB5FF), to(#000000));">  Featherstorm9678   04:12, July 22, 2012 (UTC)Featherstorm9678