Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Tigerstar
I know I am going to be killed for bringing this up again, so let us try not to attack each other like we did last time, all right? So Jayce and I were discussing something and we came across the fact that Tigerstar does not match Hawkfrost, in which he should. Out of the three, (remember that it is a huge plot in the storyline that they are meant to look exactly like each other, to the point where Firestar can't trust Brambleclaw at all because he looks exactly like Tigerstar and sees him every single time, and there was a point where Hawkfrost jumped out and Firestar was so spooked because he thought it was Tigerstar given a tenth life) Hawkfrost is the only one with a given tabby pattern. Now, I know that once again you guys are going to tell me that the images cannot match 100%, in which I completely respect and understand. However, my issue is, they do not match at all. Bramblestar matches Hawkfrost close enough, I believe, unless we want to dispute that, but Tigerstar does not. Tigerstar's stripes are not even close to what Hawkfrost's are, and once again, I know that it cannot and should not be a 100% match, but bear with me here. Tigerstar's colors are also very different, and I cannot see any part of him that resembles Hawkfrost in the slightest. I believe that Tigerstar's images should be tweaked to match Hawkfrost a bit more. No, not 100%, but around maybe like 70%. I understand that we cannot just copy Hawkfrost's image, put it on Tigerstar, and call it a day. But that is my opinion, and I would like to see what you guys think. 17:29, October 29, 2017 (UTC)

I think he's fine. It's probably just the texture that's throwing off Tigerstar's color from Hawkfrost's and Bramblestar's. Their stripes match pretty well, I'd even say that Tigerstar's stripes are closer to Hawkfrost's than Bramblestar's, in my opinion. But even then, they do match pretty well, but not exactly. 00:01, October 30, 2017 (UTC)

I compared their apprentice images side by side and I got that bramble and hawk's stripes are almost exactly the same save for the fact that hawk has chest stripes and bramble has a pale chest. They're also both relatively similar to Tigerstar, but they don't match as well as they could. I mean, we had hoot and jumper match barley exactly (I know we had pictures confirming they looked exactly alike, but still) If several cats have mistaken bramble and hawk for tiger, then they should match almost exactly, like how bramble and hawk match.

I compared Hawkfrost and Tigerstar's images and think the stripes are very similar, the colors are a little different, and I think the most notable difference between their images is Tigerstar's pale chest

I definitely think they should look more similiar, like what we did with Barley, Jumper and Hoot.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  03:26, November 3, 2017 (UTC)

Fyi, I color picked from Hawkfrost's Dark Forest image. The only reason their colors could be different is because I added texture. I forgot about the pale parts though, but I also added texture to those so they probably look darker than they should be. I did try and match Hawkfrost's dark forest image when I did the DF (which, tbh does look pretty different from his other images), but I matched the rogue to Tigerstar's DF image and so on, maybe that's why they don't match 100%. If there's an agreement on this, I'm not going to tweak the DF because I honestly did try to match it when I did it.

If he does end up being changed, at most only the stripes should be tweaked because the rest is fine. The texture is really just shadow in the fur, it doesn't have to be removed. The pale parts don't need to match because Hawkfrost has a white chest, not pale parts. Also, the shading styles are quite different, so keep that in mind also. The color is also fine, I colorpicked from Hawkfrost when I did his image. I'm not voicing an opinion on whether he should be tweaked or not, but I feel like I need to say how I drew Tigerstar as the OA of his pattern, and what parts I feel match fine.

Actually Hawkfrost doesn't have a white chest, he has a white underbelly. I know pale parts are artist's choice but in this case maybe Tigerstar's pale chest should be reduced to just his belly to match Hawkfrost better? Comparing the kit images it's especially obvious that the pale chest is the most noticeable difference, while the DF images look the most similar, because you can't really see Tigerstar's pale chest in that one

Well according to that, Bramblestar's pale chest also needs to be removed if Tigerstar's needs to be.

See, I really don't think Tigerstar's images should have the texture. When we match things here, I've always been under the impression that it needs to match completely. Colors, texture, stripe pattern, ect. I get that texture is optional, but the texture that Tigerstar has is one of the main reasons it looks like his images don't match his son's. While they're said to look like Tigerstar, Hawkfrost is the one with the cited tabby pattern... I don't mean to be rude, but I honestly don't think Tigerstar's images match his sons at all. Especially because of the fur texture. Given all three of these cats are basically mirrors of one another, Tigerstar really should match.

We did it with Jumper, Hoot, and Barley, and there's no reason that Tigerstar, Hawkfrost, and Bramblestar should be exempt from this. Artistic freedoms aside, and as nice of images as they are... there really isn't any justifiable reason as to why these shouldn't match; if it's to the point they're basically scared of Hawkfrost and Bramblestar because of their appearance and likeness to Tigerstar, those images should reflect that. Evert part of the image. This includes texture, pale parts, colors, and whatnot. Sure, it's a choice to add texture, but in cases where cats are said to be spitting images of one another, that needs to be taken into consideration.

In that case, I can easily tweak mine (I have the file) by removing all the texture layers + pale parts and giving the stripes a slight tweak. The colors are the same as Hawkfrost's underneath the texture.

Any other comments?

Needletail & others
Darkest Night spoilers

So, for those who have read it this early, you know that Needletail isn't in StarClan or the Dark Forest, and she's dead. She actually flat out tells Violetshine she is in neither StarClan nor the Dark Forest. Does that mean those cats who are in this purgatory-like state get blanks or not? I think they should, just because they aren't in either place, and they aren't actually rogues/whatever their past affilation was anymore. They merit a blank, in my opninon. This is something that hasn't been done in Warriors before.

We have a blank for the Cats of the Park. And it was only a rank used for like 3 characters. This definitely qualifies as it's own thing. 01:58 Tue Nov 7

Is Needletail the only cat so far? If so, I think we should wait to see if this is just a one-off mention or not...

It's not just Needletail. I'll have to find the cite again for the other cats mentioned, but yeah. Off the top of my head, it wasn't just her.

Alright, if there are other cats, then yeah, I completely agree with giving them at least something to represent their residency. StarClan and the Dark Forest have their own blanks, so it makes perfect sense to give these cats their own as well... since they are very clearly in neither place.

I agree with giving them their own blank, like what has been said above, they aren't in either place, so I think they should. 02:19, November 7, 2017 (UTC)

If there's other cats, then yeah, they probably should get a blank. But I'm just wondering, would these only apply to these cats, or cats who have been said or shown to be somewhere else as well? (Jake is the only one I can think of that's fits under this, but I'm pretty sure there's other cats as well.) 10:33, November 7, 2017 (UTC)

Not sure what the actual pages are since I have the ebook. But the others were Birchbark, Lioneye, Beenose (even though she was already in StarClan), Mistcloud, and Dawnpelt (later in StarClan). So the purgatory definitely isn't just for Needletail. This definitely needs a blank, it's certainly unique enough. 18:03 Tue Nov 7

I agree with what has been said. Because these cats are basically called Ghost cats, and they aren't in starclan yet. They aren't in the dark forest either, but they are the lost clanmates that have unfinished business with the living cats. C o s m o s n e s s 🐾 #cat lady 18:16, November 7, 2017 (UTC)

don't think this should count for jake and such. it's not confirmed as the same residence, and this is basically purgatory. 19:22, November 7, 2017 (UTC)

Jake shouldn't get it for the reasons Skt listed.

Have we come to a conclusion? I think we could go ahead and make a forum for this, if no one objects to it.

Jumping in to say that I agree with giving them blanks (would've commented earlier but when this discussion started I was in the middle of DN)

Same as Daniel, hadn't read the book yet. I agree, they are sorta groupless, wondering spirits so get their own blank. Quick question, Rock actually seems pretty similar. I'm pretty sure it's said he is dead, but he doesn't belong to any group, just wonders the tunnels. Come to think of it, Fallen Leaves falls under the same rules too. Do they count?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  07:21, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

Nope, Stealth. Rock is very much alive. He even says as much.

Ah okay nevermind. :P What about Fallen Leaves?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  09:32, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

I think Fallen Leaves would count. He said himself he was dead and lost, and following Hollyleaf's death and fighting the Place of No Stars, he joins the Tribe of Endless Hunting, much like we see with Dawnpelt. 17:38 Tue Nov 21

Agreeing with what Sunjaw said. These new cats are described as ghosts, and as far as I can remember Fallen Leaves was called a ghost several times and he wasn't in the ToEH yet.

Agreeing with Sunjaw. 14:24, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

Somewhat late, but I agree with Sunjaw. --ErmineGlow (talk) 01:54, November 30, 2017 (UTC)

Join?
Hey, can I join the project? Malina457 (talk) 19:24, November 29, 2017 (UTC)Malina

Sure, I'll add you in. Welcome to the project, and make sure to read the guidelines. 23:12, December 2, 2017 (UTC)

I want to join too!

Can I join?
Hello!

I was wondering if I could join project charart. I would love to be of more use to the wiki.

Mottle-Star-MuckAustralianShepherdBlueMerle (talk) 23:02, December 2, 2017 (UTC)

Sure, I'll add you in. Welcome to PCA! 23:12, December 2, 2017 (UTC)

Thank you so much Ivybreeze, for everything. Mottle-Star-MuckAustralianShepherdBlueMerle (talk) 23:35, December 2, 2017 (UTC)

Firestar’s Fur
I don’t mean to start anything, so please do not think that I do. I believe that Firestar is not actually dark, as this was only mentioned twice, whereas he is always described as flame-colored (which I would assume means a more vibrant red-orange color). Plus, Jake is said to look near-identical to Firestar. Firestar is also always depicted as being this more vibrant color in his official art. Now, I am aware that the official art is not entirely accurate (for example, the Into The Wild cover depicts Firepaw as a solid ginger, something that is to my knowledge genetically impossible), however when they are consistent and the descriptions are also mostly consistent to them, they are a good adding factor. I should also mention that the “dark” description was previously acknowledged as a mistake in the trivia, and was added as an alternate image. If this mistake is mentioned one time more, wouldn’t it make a bit more sense to simply add it into the trivia instead of changing the main description/picture? Now again, I sincerely promise that I do not mean to start anything or offend anyone, I just thought that this was something that needed to be addressed.

PS: Here is the excerpt from his trivia that I have mentioned, the specific part I alluded is in bold: “He has been mistakenly described as dark red,[56] golden,[57] and shown as a ginger non-tabby on the cover of Into the Wild,[58] and in the manga of Bluestar's Prophecy, Yellowfang's Secret, and Tallstar's Revenge.[59][38][60]“

~ Louise

Okay, but the thing is, we don't have anything in canon to contradict Firestar being called dark ginger. We do not use, nor allow, covers to be used as citations. Dark red wouldn't be the same thing as dark ginger... and he's outright called dark ginger in Firestar's Quest. It's not just him being called dark. We did not have a cite that called him bright (or in Mistystar's case, one calling a cat neither pale or dark), therefore the dark ginger cite is still valid. I really don't understand why people are complaining so much about this. I found a cite that did not contradict his canonical description, so I added it. Jake's description has nothing to do with it.

Then why not change Jake to match Firestar? As I’ve said, they are supposed to look near-identical. Again, I sincerely promise that I’m not trying to be rude or start anything. Please do not thing I am.

~ Louise

As Jayce said, Firestar is dark ginger. We have a cite and nothing to contradict it. I do agree that we can change Jake to look more like Firestar.Stealth f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:42, December 8, 2017 (UTC)