Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Apprentice Tutorials
Umm so I was gonna help out this user (not pointing out names) and I wanted to check out the apprentice tutorials again so I can explain things better when I noticed a lot of the tutorials are quite out of date.. Don't you think we should look through and recheck and make sure the tutorials aren't misleading/outdated? 03:52 Tue Sep 3

I think we should. Hopefully, we'll have newly approved queen line art soon, and the tutorials would be great to show the shading placement/eye coloring for it. There's even an tutorial video using the old rogue line art - I wouldn't find that very useful as a noob :3  .:* ❧Silver❧ *:.   Leaf-Fall is here~

True, and maybe we could add more tutorials in there too, like smudging/blurring techniques and/or texture (which most new users would like to learn) even if it's not necessary. But as mentioned in previous discussion, PCA wants the chararts to look good, no? 22:25, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

I actually think we were in the process of trying to redo some of them... not entirely sure what happened to that discussion, though. Some of the tutorials are outdated, yes, and also only have some of the information. I'd be up for a revamp.

I would like to ask the project if I could make a patched cat tutorial? Some cats have patches and there is none, so we could definitely use one. 23:22, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Imma take the texture tutorial and mayybeee the smoke, if this is considered smoke. This took up sooo much of my time>:( 17:20 Sat Sep 14

I don't think we should be "taking" anything, especially if we don't know if we're going to redo the tutorials or not. I also think only warriors and above should be allowed to work on the tutorials, as they are teaching other members, and that's a warrior and up duty.

Oh :( Once I become a warrior will it all be okay for me to do a tutorial? 17:47 Sat Sep 14

If I remember correctly, normally SMs had full permission to do tutorials, and warriors and below were required to ask, but I'm pretty sure warriors can do that anyways... Kelpsey, your smoke is really good, probably way better than I can do, and honestly, I think you could post a tutorial (is would have to be agreed upon, however).

On the subject of revamping the tutorials, I'm pretty sure we were planning this quite a long time ago, but it never came into effect. I think we should keep the current tutorials, however. And new ones could be added under the name of the user who made them. ouo

I agree. The smoke tutorial by Kelps looks very promising. And Stoney your chararts are beautiful, especially the dappled tabby tutorial I think the flecked and mottled ones are out of date, but that's just my opinion. 22:07, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I would love to see the tutorials revamped, especially to see how the standards of PCA have risen. To show no disrespect to the artists who made the tutorials or make the tutorial page super long (tl;dr - yeah let's avoid that) perhaps we can put the current tutorial on a larger version of the tabber coding preserving all the current tutorials but allowing users to post or revamp tutorials as well as include the new designs that have been showing up.

I would say that the senior members have decision over tutorials, but I emphasize the point of honesty and thinking about the reference part over the friendship. 23:24, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

We could also use the "tabber" coding to separate the apprentice tutorials into sections, so the page won't be that long, per say the first tabber would be known as "Basics" (fur, ear and eye colors, basic shading styles, plain cats, etc.), the second known as "Markings" (torties, tabby styles, etc.) and so on. Therefore, we can add more tutorials without having to extend the page a lot. 00:13, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Using the tabbers would be cool with me. Nice idea~

Thank you. ^^ 15:29, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

I agree that we should revamp the tutorials. We also need a guide to paint.net's tools, and photoshop's.  I don't use either, but for other users...   Using the tabbers is a neat idea! Also, if you have one image approved, shouldn't you be able to do a tutorial based around that (say you did a black cat, you would be able to do a tutorial based around that.) Just an idea, though. &#9786;      Ⓐ   Ⓜ  Ⓑ  Ⓔ  Ⓡ    Ⓢ Ⓗ Ⓘ  Ⓝ  Ⓔ    Hope  comes  with  FLYING OREOS 11:16 Sun Oct 13

Also, I think the mottled and flecked need updating. No offense to the artists. 11:20, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Long Fur for ThunderClan Cats
I've been meaning to bring this up ever since Tallstar's Revenge came out, but I couldn't remember where I found it. Now that I have a cite, I decided to bring it up finally. On page 126 of Tallstar's Revenge, it reads, "He'd (as in Tallpaw) never seen such huge cats, wide-shouldered and stocky with long fur and sharp claws that glinted at the ends of there toes." Should all ThunderClan cats get long fur unless stated otherwise? We gave all RiverClan cats long fur and all WindClan cats short fur unless stated otherwise, so I don't see why we wouldn't do the same for ThunderClan cats. 16:16, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

Good point, but who was Tallpaw looking at, at that time? It may have been a couple of long-furred TC cats. Bluestar was described with short fur, same with many others of the Clan. Their fur can vary from long to short, since they're a forest Clan. It would make more sense for WC to have a lot of short hairs, due to their moor-running experiences, and RC eats fish, so their fur gets all oily, and they need long fur to protect them from very cold waters[my theory xD there may be other reasons]. I'm a little lazy to go get TR, and look up the page. But I may in a little bit. But someone else can look at their copy. But in my opinion, I think the way TC hairs vary, is fine. Same as how SC's hair types vary. But the main reason why most of them are long-furred, is mainly so they can endure leaf-bare. Maybe they had medium-hair length, so in a short description of TC, the Erin called them long-furred. I bet someone else could explain this way better than me, but this is my total honest opinion on your question. Sorry if I just talked no sense! xD I tend to   20:37, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

However, they may have been the exception, or he may have been describing them with such fur as WindClan cats aren't exactly balls of fluff. 20:43, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

This was at Tallpaw's first gathering, which tells me that they were all long-furred. And Bluestar being describe as short-furred was a mistake, as she was originally described as long-furred. Just pointing that out. 22:03, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

ThunderClan doesn't have a feature that sets them apart from the others. There are several short furred ThunderClan cats, who are Clan born. But I agee with Ravenfrost in this situation. There's really no need to make all ThunderClan cats long furred because a certain patrol was described as long fur. 22:18, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Icy on this. I don't see a need to make them all long-furred, unless a specific character, such as Cloudtail or Graystripe, are described as such. A small group of cats don't represent the entirety of the Clan, imho.

Also, what a WindClan cat might consider long-haired, and what a ThunderClan cat/ect might consider longhaired can vary significantly. If he never saw a longhaired cat and suddenly saw some with, say, medium length fur, it would look long to him. Based on that alone I would say they don't need to be tweaked for that. 01:23, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Agreeing with above. As Windclan cats are almost all shorthaired, they might think Thunderclan cats, who might even be shorthaired, but with slightly longer fur, all are longhaired. Also, this is Tallpaw, and his first Gathering, so he probably thinks all the cats there were longhaired, excluding Windclan, obviously. Basically agreeing with Ivy. &#9786;      Ⓐ   Ⓜ  Ⓑ  Ⓔ  Ⓡ    Ⓢ Ⓗ Ⓘ  Ⓝ  Ⓔ    Hope  comes  with  FLYING OREOS 11:22 Sun Oct 13

Rejoin? (again)
Sorry if I keep on asking to join, but this time, I really mean it. I've improved a lot at chararts, so I hope you'll let me in again! ♥ Thistle flight ♥

Don't worry, we let anybody in. cx Just make sure you check out the guidelines if you need a refresher or something. ^^  19:59, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

Join
Hi! Can I join? -Birdbrain101 (talk) 15:46, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry you had to wait so long! But yes, I'll add you in right now ^.^ If you want more info on the project, you can look at our guidelines here, and if you need any help with chararts you can looking at our tutorials or the mentor program. 19:50, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

My New Member Rank
Hey, I don't mean to rush..But since the vote for the different path for a kit to become an apprentice-apprentice to warrior thing passed, I have been contantly active on the project. So does that mean I should be ranked up to a warrior now? 23:54, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

You know, I'd been meaning to bring something up, but I'd actually forgotten about it, and was really busy as of late. This is not directed at you, but.... I actually do not feel comfortable with a user who has not gotten an image approved (for whatever reason, especially the one month limit, since the limits for tweaks and redos are even less) being allowed to tweak images. Making charart requests is one thing, but.. I really don't think that someone who's obtained the rank of warrior this way, without having anything approved, should be allowed to edit an image that was not originally theirs, since we don't know the full potential. I have no problems with them becoming warriors, but it's the tweaking aspect of it that does not sit well with me. I do apologize, but I honestly think that if someone doesn't have at least one image approved, they shouldn't be allowed to tweak an image.

Okay, but what if you're in my circumstance where I've finished an image, but not the current given number? And also, no offense Snow (the newest user on the block! lol) but keep in mind we did have a vote on this, and it did pass. I'd say an assessment image for those without a complete image might work- maybe? 06:42 Wed Oct 9

And the very definition of warrior status is built off the concept of tweaks: being able to tweak and vote. So, if warrior status means just a name on a screen and nothing besides, I really don't see the point of the alternate route besides easy-access promotions for new users- which, of course is the opposite of what we're truying to do here. No offense, and no personal attack intentions here, but... yeah. 06:46 Wed Oct 9

Uh, if you're talking about me, I'm the PCA deputy??????? I just got a username change???? I'm not new???? Anyways, I am well aware there was a vote? I said I had been meaning to bring it up, but hadn't gotten around to bringing it up, since I've been /sick/ and busy with work the past couple of weeks... And I'm not sure if an assessment image would work? Would it still be just as strictly critiqued as a "normal" PCA image, or something like that? o.O

Lol, I was joking about having to call you a new nickname!!!!!! ;[ Sorry!!!! Anyways, I meant that (no offense) your say is not community consensus. yeah maybe we could do another vote once we solidify things. And I'm assuming we'd critique it like a normal PCA image, as that's how they would learn what's acceptable. but looking over it again, I don't think that'd work out too well because where'd we put the image? And I /do/ agree that while critiquing others does help you be a better artist, but I know a few artists that (not mentioning names) have stuck around for a while and still have quite a bit to learn... Perhaps including myself X3 hope you feel better snowy 07:17 Wed Oct 9

Uhh, I never said that my say was community consensus? I never even implied that? I don't actually get where you're coming from with that, and if you're accusing me of something, I'd appreciate it if you don't. I know there was a vote, and I voted on it. There was just something else that I'd thought of and completely didn't mention, when I should have earlier, and now that Raven's posted, it jolted my memory into saying something.

Also, everyone has more to learn. No one's perfect here (no matter how good they are at art or anatomy, there's always something more to learn from making images and blanks and such), and that's why we critique images...while someone has the right to reject a critique, saying "it's fine" and that's it, seems to be a little more on the lazy side, and that brings me to another discussion which I'll probably start in the morning.

Anyways, my point is, that I honestly don't think someone who hasn't gotten at least one image approved, regardless of their progress on said images, should be allowed to tweak. As long as they have at least one image approved, as you do, I wouldn't be against letting you tweak an image. I just would rather not someone who hasn't gotten one of their own approved edit an already approved one, since they might not know what they're getting into. Sometimes, people have brought /other/ things to light when tweaking an image, like say, defining the shading more, on something that only needed a grayscale change, or a ripped ear, or ragged fur. Or maybe adding tabby stripes due to someone finding a cite in the process of an image being tweaked. The possibilities are actually quite endless and could happen more frequently than you think.

I understand your point. Would it make you feel better if I promised not to tweak an image until I've had one image approved? Or should I make you an image at my best? Or maybe you could get more people to comment on Blizzardpaw, since I'm so bored and my deadline is coming up. ._. 20:28, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Ask on chat, as you can't force people to comment. You'll probably get a reply faster via chat. 20:30, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

I cannot force people to comment on your image, Raven. And don't harass others on chat to comment. One "can I ask for comments?" is fine, and you've already done that on your image. If you want to make an image, fine, but I'm /not/ promising that it will count, since this isn't even official or anything like that. I also can't decide what should be done in cases where someone hasn't gotten an image approved. It's not up to me, and it was only a suggestion. If someone disagrees with me, they should speak up, and perhaps we can get this discussion off the ground?

Why do you think I am accusing you of something? It was just a reminder that others need to agree first. I'm sorry, I should have been more detailed and elaborated on the fact that I don't think we should cancel unless others agree, but I specifically stated earlier that I had no intention of personally attacking anyone.. So please just quit assuming bad faith.

Anyways, I'm guessing the "promo art" probably wouldn't work out, but I was thinking, maybe kits only should be moved up via 3-week rule, and then after an apprentice is past 3 weeks of apprenticeship without images approved they should have first dibs on an image for say, 24 hours would be "3-week apprenticeship selection"? After the 24-hours expires, all other members would be valid to pick up the image.

However, this would be kind of limiting the project so... What do you guys think? Good or bad? 23:17 Wed Oct 9

I'm not assuming bad faith, so don't accuse me of such ._.;; I said it was a suggestion, and one that I should have brought up earlier, but I was busy and forgot, hence why I'm saying it now. I never once said that was I said was set in stone. Saying that I don't feel comfortable with people tweaking other images when they can't even get their own approved is an opinion I am entitled to, and I'll voice it if I please. I know that others need to agree??? I've been here almost four and half years, and community consensus was one of the very first things I was introduced to on this wiki. And yes, it might limit the project, but having inexperienced users working on images might not be such a good idea if you really think about it...and I'm starting to regret voting yes on that.

Like Cloudy, I agree that there should be no exceptions to the ranking up or anything. And as I have said before, getting an image approved is almost just getting you ready for tweaking - practice, for better words.

Though I do agree with the 24-hour apprentice idea. It would be helpful to the new members of the project, and actually give them a chance to move up in rank and continue on with more duties within the project. 19:47, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

(This may be a bit late; this is referring to Raven's most recent comment) Raven if you're bored about it waiting for comments try study the image yourself for improvement. I did it with Fuzzypelt's appy image several times. See anything to improve; try spy out rogue waste, have a look if the eye depth needs defining, if the shading needs defining or see if a different tint would match it to other images. (Of course tinting depends) Anthing minor could effect the timing it gets CBA'd - approved. 20:36, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Sorrel, I'll do that. And I'm sorry guys, I didn't mean to start an argument if I did.. 15:05, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to comment again soon but I felt like first I need to say something: What about my case? Sorry for sounding selfish or impatient, but I've completed an image. But since I took an absence for like 2 weeks I guess I wouldn't be eligible at the moment but like, in a couple weeks would I be moved up or would I need to snag a few more images? Just wondering for the moment... 22:59 Fri Oct 11

Well, if we'd do what I suggested, then you'd be fine to tweak, and you've already had an image approved. My thing is only against people who've gotten up to the rank of warrior without getting a single image approved, whether it be because there haven't been any, or it got declined or there were other circumstances that prevented an image from being approved. I seriously have no idea what exactly's going on with the whole ranking thing, and what's active to some might not be active to others.

I didn't agree with the three week stuff on that recent vote, and in my opinion, Someone who hasn't had an image approved really shouldn't be eligible to tweak, as it is usually harder. However, I think that an assessment image could be a good idea, as Cloudy mentioned, or simply maybe bump the requirements to at least one image approved?

Agreeing with Stoner. When you're an apprentice, getting three images approved sounds like it will take, well, forever. Especially now, with no images to do, apart from when you find something in Tallstar's Revenge that requires an alt. So yeah. That probably doesn't make sense. &#9786;      Ⓐ   Ⓜ  Ⓑ  Ⓔ  Ⓡ    Ⓢ Ⓗ Ⓘ  Ⓝ  Ⓔ    Hope  comes  with  FLYING OREOS 11:28 Sun Oct 13

Stepping Down
I apologize for my negligence for not asking here sooner, but many new challenges are coming up in my life, and as some of you may be aware, I haven't been contributing to PCA as much as should be required by my SW rank. Due to this, I would like to step down from my rank as SW in the project for now. As I mentioned, a lot of new and unexpected things are happening in my life right now and to come, and I really am finding trouble in contributing my part in the project.

I want to certainly try hard in the future to work as my part as a warrior, and I apologize for my negligence to duties for the past month. Thank you, 05:08, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

I see no reason to apologize, dear. Sometimes, life gets in the way of other things, this being one of them. I'll change your rank to warrior. ^^;;

Can I join?
I think I got alot better at charart, so if I could join this project, that would be awesome. -- ♫Harpstring♫ .~:The queen of strings:~. 23:19, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Sure, I'll add you in right now. Here are the guidelines to the project, and if you need any help you can check out the tutorials or the mentor program. ^.^  23:21, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Request
Could I join project charart?

Eagletalon44 (talk) 19:57, October 11, 2013 (UTC) Eagle  talon

I'll add you in right now - make sure to look at our guidelines, tutorials, or the mentor program if you need any help c:  23:30, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Oakheart ~ Fox-colored alt?
In his trivia, it says that he has been mistakenly described as "fox-colored." Would that warrant an alt, seen as fox colored is ginger-ish? 23:07, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, I think so. Fox-colored /is/ more towards ginger... He's a dark reddish-brown, when I don't think that and a ginger-like color are the same thing?

I believe that can warrant an alt, yes. Foxes pelts look much more lighter/brighter when it comes to comparing their pictures together. 23:17, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

I believe so, yes. I hope no one minds if I take this if it's warranted. 00:25, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

Um Sorrel, three users is in no way a community consensus. But anyways I agree that he should get one. 00:32, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

I meant to say should it be warranted, sorry. I've put it in. 00:40, October 12, 2013 (UTC)\

I believe it warrants an alt. I remember the time he was described accidentally as fox-colored, and that's at least three-four shades off from a russet/reddish-brown. So yeah, I believe there should be an alt on that. 17:27, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

Is five users a conclusion, or should there be more? 10:34, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

I think he should have an alt too. Fox colored is not the same as dark reddish brown. &#9786;      Ⓐ   Ⓜ  Ⓑ  Ⓔ  Ⓡ    Ⓢ Ⓗ Ⓘ  Ⓝ  Ⓔ    Hope  comes  with  FLYING OREOS 10:38 Sun Oct 13

No residence blanks
When Tigerstar, and Hawkfrost etc got killed and had no Darkforest, no StarClan. just dead, I could say. I thought maybe those guys could have their own blank?

♫Harpstring♫ .~:The queen of strings:~. 23:22, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

This has actually been said before, but we have agreed that the Darkforest really isn't a rank - they are just rogues. So that's why they have those blanks ^^ 23:33, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Agreeing with Misty; they are really just rogues. 13:24, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Misty and Sorrel about the dark forest, but what about the dead Starclan cats like Spottedleaf? Should they? &#9786;      Ⓐ   Ⓜ  Ⓑ  Ⓔ  Ⓡ    Ⓢ Ⓗ Ⓘ  Ⓝ  Ⓔ    Hope  comes  with  FLYING OREOS 10:41 Sun Oct 13

Join Request
Hi, I'd like to join these character projects. I can't wait to put art up! 14:39, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

Rosetail
Sorry if I'm bothering people, but, how come Rosetail's pink tail was removed? 00:40 Sun Oct 13

She technically has a pinkish-orange tail, not pink, and since she was not confirmed as ginger, the color of her tail was used as her body color instead. 00:44, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Oh.. Ok. Thanks 00:54 Sun Oct 13