Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Mentorship
This was a thing brought a while back and was around at the start of PCA. People here have had mentors and I was mentored by Hawkfire myself, and due to her teachings with me in the way of art I have been a very active supporter of the idea of mentorship, whether it be in PCA or in the wiki. I also suggest this because I have mentored several users and have found it to be both a bonding experience and a sharing of skills. I would either have a lesson planned for a join.me, or said user would ask for me to teach them what they wanted to learn, whether it would be patterns, shading, stripes, etc. Since we have new users wanting to join, I believe that it would be a good experience to bring back the mentorship. I am not sure if we would need a due process, a nomination, or if someone comes here and asks "can I have a mentor" and either requests someone / picks people who are available, I do not know, we will have to figure that out if we even want to coin the idea of mentorship. Thoughts?

Mentorship in this project should be a thing, imo. It helped me immensely (read: I was taught by Icy <3) and I feel it's an important thing to have for users that learn better with a teacher. I don't think we need the process, but I think we should have a list of active people available and what programs they use, and a note to ask one of said users for help.

As long as this is not a requirement of the project's leads, I'm fine with it. Not everyone has the patience for mentoring, so we shouldn't impose it on users who do not want it. (  04:18, 5/28/2018  ) ​

I think it could work! I never had a mentor but I really could have used the help. Would it be weird that I, a senior warrior, still get someone else to mentor me...? 04:22, May 28, 2018 (UTC)

Yes, anyone can have a mentor. 04:39, May 28, 2018 (UTC)

Awesome I just hope people won’t judge me for being a senior warrior and needing a mentor. 04:57, May 28, 2018 (UTC)

I support this, I know I was kind of lost back in the beginning; so much goes on! It would be a fun and helpful experience for both the mentor and apprentice, plus save a lot of confusion for the app. My question is, why did we remove it in the first place..? I don't recall hearing as to why. I agree with what Spooky said^ have a list of active people and what programs they use, without much process. 14:11, May 28, 2018 (UTC)

Honestly, I am not sure why it got removed in the first place. Maybe it was swept in inactivity, maybe no one wanted to do it, etc. 10:00, May 29, 2018 (UTC)

Just as a reference, This is the old discussion about removing the mentor program.

I think the main justifications for removing the program were:
 * Many people don't need a mentor, therefore it's unnecessary.
 * Tutorials are enough
 * A lot of unofficial pairs

Personally I don't mind adding the program back, I enjoyed mentoring some apprentices and liked watching them improve.

Any other comments? 13:56, June 13, 2018 (UTC)

echosong's kp/warrior
so when this was nominated at least one of the images was supposed to be kept, and the others that were redone to match it. so why was both the kittypet AND warrior redone? one needs to be reverted because both was not was agreed upon. figured id bring it up here to avoid arguments over sudden reverts, and which one s supposed to be kept. 20:00, May 29, 2018 (UTC)

It should have been the warrior. Due to the old medicine cat version being first, and the warrior blanks being carbon copies of the old medicine cat blanks, that image is defaulted to first in the set, and all images are required to match that. The "first image in the set" does not always default to whatever came after the redone image. If another image in the set matches to a T, (in the cases of a warrior -> old deputy, warrior -> old mc, or apprentice -> mca), then that is first, due to it being copied. All images in this set need to match the old warrior.

So would we revert the warrior, basically?

I thought they were all supposed to be redone :/ In that case, I agree with reverting it back to the old warrior and redo the other images to match it. 20:02, June 9, 2018 (UTC)

Hmmm yes we should do that, I agree^^ We could likely tweak some, and redo the ones that can't be tweaked from the old revisions

Any other comments? 14:20, June 14, 2018 (UTC)

Redoing blanks
Hello everyone. Due to circumstances not seen before, one of our old PCA senior warriors has been banned. Due to the nature of her crimes, we believe that it is best for all of our users to have no trace of her on the Wiki. It is more heinous than anyone we have banned before, and for the sake of the safety of everyone. We also believe that we may technically be using them without permission, seeing that the user is banned.

So, with that being said, the best way to remove traces of her being on the Wiki is to redo the images. She has also uploaded blanks - the guardian cat blanks and the unknown residence. We believe that having a redo of these images may be the best option. We will go with the second runner up of either of those images, and then have another vote for the remainder. When the blanks are completed, the original OAs get a first serve at their image. If they do not want it, that is fine, but it is their right to claim their own images first.

Now that leads me to my second point - redoing her images. The user I am speaking of is Cosmo, and I believe that if we redo her blanks to erase the unhealthy presence, we should redo the images she has done. She has several, so this may take a while.

But in the end, I think it is for the best.

Can I have everyone's thoughts? 23:42, June 8, 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure what she did (it was prob on discord which I don't use), but if it was bad enough to consider this, I agree that her presence should be gone. I agree with both redoing her images, and her blanks. Though with the original images she did, do we just reserve them as redos? 00:08 Sat Jun 9

tl:dr; for sunjaw, that isn't too graphic, Cosmo was acting hella predatory to the minors of the wiki, asking for personal info, being uncomfortable, etc. just generally being really nasty.

I also agree with erasing her presence on the wiki, and look at me I made a whole damn list haha I hate my life. For the blanks, that'd mean Danny gets the guardian cats and Patch and Danny are tied for unknown residence, right? --

If Danny would like, they may take the guardian cats. But since the two are tied for unknown residence, and since Patch is currently working on a blank and Danny if they want theirs, I believe that the best course of action would be to create another voting forum to nominate more. 01:56, June 9, 2018 (UTC)

I'll do the guardian cats then. I also support redoing all of Cosmos other images considering the situation.

I just want to raise a question regarding her tweaks. If we are to erase one thing about Cosmo, we must erase others. This means if we are to erase all her original images, her tweaked images also must be erased or else there is no point in this. I'm not sure how the tweaks are going to work, though.

Well I'd assume we'd revert the tweaked ones pre-Cosmo, list them all under the tweaked section (which would likely close down nominations for a bit, since I believe there's a limit). The only way we could do it is first come first serve I think, since no one else wanted the images in the first place if Cosmo was the person to tweak them, they dont really automatically go to anyone else.

Fox is right about we should be removing the tweaks if we are removing everything with Cosmo, but I am torn on this, just because her tweaks were minor and it would be so pointless... but I do not know. 03:22, June 9, 2018 (UTC)

Imo we should remove everything in our power to remove. Might take a bit, but worth removing the triggers in the end. I agree with Danny in how we should handle that process, unless any OAs of anything Cosmo tweaked want their things, as we'd offer in a normal scenario.

I think we should revert any charart she has done and redo them. 18:04, June 9, 2018 (UTC)

revert and redo them all, then once they've been done and archived, delete the previous versions done by her. that way there's absolutely no trace. 19:03, June 9, 2018 (UTC)

So for her original images she did, can we just reserve them to redo? 19:18 Sat Jun 9

I agree with redoing all the images she has done. Erase her presence from the wiki. The tweaks do seem very small though... I suppose we could possibly revert them back to before she tweaked them? then tweak them again? It's small, but if we want to remove all of her art, that includes tweaks. 20:06, June 9, 2018 (UTC)

Geez, I'm still trying to process this...but whatever happened that caused this urge to erase her from the wiki...then this is what needs to happen. I'm all for it. I agree with everything stated above. Letting the OAs for the tweaks (if they are still active) get first pick, if not, free for all for the rest and the redos. 03:17, June 10, 2018 (UTC)

Except that if we did change them to redos (putting them on the tweak page) that would essentially bar kits / apprentices from working on them. Do we still want them to be redos or should we consider them "new" images so everyone has a fair chance? I do understand that this may take more time, as people would only be able to get one image and a CBA would have to pass, but redoing may barr other people. What does everyone else think? 00:43, June 11, 2018 (UTC)

like I said in the discord, I think it should be an exception if they end up on the tweak page, as this is a unique case, and would be fair to everyone. 00:47, June 11, 2018 (UTC)

Idk, I think new images would be a good idea. If it was only for redos, warriors and up could do them, but redoes don’t take as long. However, as new images, all ranks could do them, so that balances it out. More people with longer processes, or less people with shorter processes. 00:48, June 11, 2018 (UTC)

As much sense as it would make to make it redos, since there are already approved images for the files, maybe it should just be first come first served. It's not like we really have anything urgent to do, so time isn't a big problem. 00:51 Mon Jun 11

Okay so maybe hot take, but what about for Cosmo images, and Cosmo images only, we would let apprentices and kits have a shot at tweaking and redoing? Might be uncomparable since it was one-off to a massive as hell list, but when Honeyfur's apprentice was nominated I tweaked it because I was the OA, despite being an apprentice at that time. since it's fair game for anyone if the OA's not around, could we do that? --

My thoughts: Cosmo’s tweaks and should be listed in the normal way, but all of her original images should be through the normal approval process. I don’t think we should allow kits and apps to tweak or redo things that they aren’t the OA of per why we have that ruling in the first place, to make sure those things are done by someone who knows what they’re doing when they don’t have the file/aren’t the OA. To erase Cosmo’s presence on her tweaks and redos, we could revert them and pretend like they’d never been done and just list them as normal for warriors and above to do. And then for her originals, we could have those for the approval page, as if she’d never done them. That seems like it’d balance the time aspect as well as erasing her presence.

I agree with Spooky on this. Her tweaks should be listed as tweaks again, just revert them to before she touched them. Redos, we could also revert them and do them again. But all of her images where she is the OA, they should be open to everyone to have a chance at and go on the approval page. 19:42, June 11, 2018 (UTC)

I've been absent on the wiki for a few days and wow... I come to this. It's a shame such a great artist was banned, but unfortunately, redoing all of her images where she is the OA seems to be the best route. 21:38, June 11, 2018 (UTC)

Any more comments? 02:08, June 13, 2018 (UTC)

So can we reserve one original and one redo?

I think for the blank redos OAs would most likely reserve their own. Also, it is not like the deputy case in which there were several, several images. I think we can discuss the case for redoing the blanks later.

Here is the conclusion I am gathering: 1.) Danny will take the Guardian Cat blanks.

2.) We will have a vote for the new artsit of the unknown residence.

3.) Cosmo's originals will be reserved as original images, while the images she redid / tweaked will be for the tweak page (so you can reserve two redos, one original.)

The sooner we get this done, the better.

Let's get to work. 17:56, June 13, 2018 (UTC)

Finpaw and Sandynose
We tweaked everything to match, didn't we (Sparkpelt, Jake, etc.)? In that case would Finpaw apply? Wasn't he described to look exactly like his father? Would he need tabby stripes to look identical to his father, in that case?

Twigbranch is said to be identical to Hawkwing, but it was decided she wasn't going to be given stripes. Idk if it's the same case w Fin and Sandy. 05:09, 6/09/2018

The difference here is that he was never explicitly described as a tabby, so the most we can do for now is give him identical coloring. If he's mentioned as a tabby, then he'd get the same stripes as his dad.

Alright, but what about Spottedpelt? Since she was described as resembling Spottedleaf her white chest was kept despite her not being described as having one. Isn't this the exact same situation?

pretty sure it was owing to the "striking resemblance", basically saying she looks extremely hauntingly similar. imo if it's deemed not needed, it should jut be deliuted to an off white, likes been done with other torties. as for fin and sandy, the same colours should apply, and perhaps the ginger legs stripes should be the same too, at the very least? fin wouldn't have to be a tabby and they'd match in everything except body stripes. 19:00, June 9, 2018 (UTC)

Fair enough. Though speaking of Spottedpelt I'd like to bring up Gorseclaw (TC), who doesn't seem to match Tigerstar in terms of colors or stripes even though he is said to look strikingly similar to him, just like Spottedpelt. For Finpaw if I remember the artist matched the colors from Sandynose but I'm not sure.

yeah I couldprobably agree with that. it would't have to be identical but it probably should be the same colour and stripe style. 00:53, June 11, 2018 (UTC)

Sorry for posting again, but I want to bring attention to Raggedstar and Hal, which Broken brought up on the approval page. The cite says they look exactly the same, yet their stripe style, colors and pelt length don't hold true to that (unless I'm blind or missing something). I think one should be tweaked/redone to reflect that, because in the end it's a book cite. What are your thoughts on this?

You're not blind^^ Hal's stripes are different than Raggedstar's, like on the head, and overall. It's hard to say about their color, but if it needs to be redone for matching stripes etc. Then I'm fine with that, just a little hesitant about changing the pelt length. 13:57, 6/11/2018

Well we were going by "If they look exactly the same, tweak them to match" so Hal would call for a tweak, at least to make his colors and stripes match Raggedstar's. Pelt length, not sure. I don't remember if he was listed with a speific pelt length.

I don't think Finleap would need tabby stripes, as I don't recall him ever being mentioned with stripes (such as what we did for Hawkwing and Twigbranch) 19:47, June 11, 2018 (UTC)

Finpaw does not get tabby stripes due to him not being called a tabby. The only part of him that might get tabby stripes are his legs... but other than that? No stripes, and we should be following the same rule as Hawkwing/Twigbranch.

I agree with Skye^^ I don't think a cat's pelt length needs to match if they have look alike cites, personally, but if we do end up changing that gonna throw in that it also affects Honey Pelt

I guess we can all agree that Finpaw/Twigpaw shouldn't get tabby stripes. If this is the case, can I have more input on Spottedpelt for a consensus? She was described to look similar to Spottedleaf but she has a white chest despite not being cited with it (I think striking resemblance =/= identical, imo). And regarding Honey Pelt, he is said to "just look like" his father I believe, so I think his pelt length won't need to be changed because it doesn't mean "identical". Personally I believe that if two cats are said to be identical, this would include pelt length as well. If one cat is short haired while the other is long haired would they still be called "exactly the same"?

I'd imagine if she wasn't described with a white chest, she wouldn't get one, since this is basically the same thing as Finpaw's stripe case. I do agree with what you said, if two cats are said to be identical, they'd look the same, even pelt length, and also gonna agree with Honey Pelt's pelt length not being changed. 13:55, June 13, 2018 (UTC)

Gonna be the unpopular one here, but I feel due to Spottedpelt's striking resemblance to Spottedleaf, who is cited with white, we should make an exception and keep the white for this instance. While we don't typically do that, I feel that they were trying to make a point that Spottedpelt and Spottedleaf are almost exactly the same. I also don't think pelt length should be tweaked to match unless one of them has a cited pelt length (whichever one does would mean the opposite gets tweaked, I'd say). Other than that, you can have cats that look alike, but still have shorter fur than one another.

Redoing the healer blank
We had a discussion about the warrior, medicine cat, and deputy blanks when they were all the same pose but just a tad different. We said they were all different and therefore should have different poses / different blanks. Should that not be the same with the healer and the leader? A healer is not the same rank as a leader - there are much differences. As if now, the healer blank just looks like it has a tail snapped in half. I believe that (I am so sorry to bring this up during a wave of blank redos / charart redos, but I feel like this would be very quick) that we should consider a redo of these blanks. 02:24, June 14, 2018 (UTC)

I have always thought the healer deserved its own blank. They are not Clan leaders, they are not exactly the same. They should have their own blank. Yes, this shouldn't take too long, the longest process would be actually making the blank, but afterwords it should go pretty quick. 02:37, June 14, 2018 (UTC)

I agree^^ It is it's own rank and we should make one different than the normal leader's pose.

When I first joined, I didn't think the healer had a blank, I thought the edited leader was temporary (no offense, but that's what went through my mind after seeing that the deputy/med cats had been redone) They definitely deserve their own blank.

Yeah, they should have their own blank. 18:03, June 17, 2018 (UTC)

I have opened a forum for people to enter in their blanks, here. 01:43, June 22, 2018 (UTC)

Guardian cats
(I think) the guardian cat blanks have been redone. Can kits/apprentices make charart for the guardian cats or does that count as redoing them? -- ~Wafflepaw/heart of BlogClan~ 12:52, June 17, 2018 (UTC)

I believe the people who made the orginal guardian cat images have a right to make the new ones for the characters they had previously done, unless they wish otherwise. 12:55, June 17, 2018 (UTC)

Patch is correct. Considering so many people are still active that have done the guardian cat blanks, it is not their fault that the guardian cats got redone so they should have first claims. 16:49, June 17, 2018 (UTC)

any that aren't reclaimed by the oa I'd imagine would be free game for anyone. 20:42, June 17, 2018 (UTC)

Redoing cave-guard and to-bes
Hi, sorry, but the cave guard and to-be blanks have major anatomy issues and I am suggesting a redo for those. 10:54, June 19, 2018 (UTC)

I agree. The to-be's have more issues than the cave guards honestly, didn't we decide on discord the cave guards would have more of a "tweak", fixing up anatomy errors, but in general keeping the same pose? I don't remember, but either way, I'm still in favor of this. 13:09, June 19, 2018 (UTC)

Agreed with both^^ I think the general pose of the caves guard could be kept, but redo it to fix anatomy + since it does happen to be up style the fur and such aesthetically

I think both just need minor tweaks, really. Neither really have more issues than the warriors blanks. The to-be looks mostly fine - the near hind leg could use some adjustments, and the tail and lineart in general needs smoothed out but otherwise it looks good. Cave-guard just needs smoother lineart and the tail fixed. I don't think they need to be redone: someone could probably do either with the same file. 21:33 Tue Jun 19 2018

Agree with Raelic, the anatomy of those doesn't seem that bad compared to the anatomy of the warrior blanks, and they shouldn't be completely redone

Agreeing with Raelic to tweak them. 20:56, June 21, 2018 (UTC)

Any comments before I put up a vote on agreeing to tweak or redo the cave guard and to-be blanks? 21:53, June 21, 2018 (UTC)

Here is the forum. 01:48, June 22, 2018 (UTC)