Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

"Hunters"
Alright, so I got the allegiances for Thunderstar's Echo in front of me, and the cats who aren't kits, apprentices, deputies, medicine cats, or leaders are called "Hunters". Should we add them as Hunters instead of Early Settlers, or both...?

Early Settlers aren't really a term used in the books so Hunters sounds like a more accurate name.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  10:23, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Anymore opinions? I agree with Stealth.

...it's literally been less than a day, and I'm pretty sure leads should be the only ones asking for more opinions on a discussion in any case. Regardless, I say add as just a Hunter, and then keep the ES listing if they have it from MFV. We didn't see some of these cats listed as Hunters in MFV, which shows that the Clans have further developed since then. I guess it'll be up to PCA whether these hunters get the warrior blank or the ES one.

Well, yeah, but there have been other discussions going on. It doesn't hurt to ask. `

Jaysnow, do not act like a lead in this case. Let the leads handle the "any more opinions" stuff. 19:31, 4/11/2017

Alright then. My apologies.

hunter sounds fine as a name listing to me, tbh. they're not quite warriors yet. 21:36, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Ok so I'm just gonna bring this up. I don't know the actual page number, as I have not actually read TE yet, but Skye just showed me this quote: "his foster daughter - moth flight's youngest kit - had grown up to be a fine young ThunderClan warrior". Warrior. That means that they are considered warriors. When I read TE, I'll provide the page number, but until then, I'll leave it up to Skye. 03:33, 4/12/2017

Alright, I found the page. It's 229 of the legends of the clans book, chapter 1 of the novella. So what do we do with this new bit of info now? 16:51, 4/12/2017

I still stand by listing them as hunters, for the allegiances sake at least. They are listed as Hunters, so...if anything, perhaps we could list as both? For example, we list "Tunnelers" from TR as both warriors and Tunnelers, so perhaps we can list them as warriors and hunters. But they definitely need to be listed as hunters, if anything.

I have another citation; warning spoilers for those who haven't read TE, but it says on page 288 and chapter 7: "But how could he look after tiny, helpless kits properly when he hadn't managed to protect his best friend, a powerful warrior?" 18:06, 4/12/2017

I'm for the listing of both, but only if said cat was called a warrior too, as in not every cat gets the warrior listing. (mostly because there isn't proof of that). otherwise fine with just having hunter listed. 06:40, April 13, 2017 (UTC)

you know what I changed my mind. if it's agreed, then anyone listed as a hunter should get the other too if that happens. 20:01, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

We should use the warrior blanks for them, since the Clan ways seemed to have been developed already 03:16, 4/15/2017

I agree with Broken. think we should use the warrior blanks. Also, Winter's cite says "Warrior", and that's probably not a mistake because they already have apprentices and deputies and things like that. 20:19, April 16, 2017 (UTC)

I just saw the allegiances it says Warriors (hunters), that seems like they are warriors, but I haven't read the book so no idea XDStealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:49, April 23, 2017 (UTC)

I feel like someone should ask the author for clarity. But imo they are warriors bc the allegiances even lists them as such.

can I nudge this for anymotr opinions from anyone please give us yr input 18:35, May 1, 2017 (UTC)

They should have the warrior blanks for the reasons listed above. They're called warriors, it seems like the logical thing to do. 17:55, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

I haven't read the book yet, but it seems to me like they should get the warrior blanks since they are listed as warriors. 18:01, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

I feel like the quote Skye provided pretty much proves they're now warriors. It makes sense given they already established clan ranks (leader, deputy, medicine cat, etc)

Anymore comments? I agree with most of the above. Hunter and Warrior rank.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:30, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

it seems like there aren't any. would anyone object if i just start adding them?

I hope not^ The warrior blanks seem fine to use for the Hunters now. I guess Hunters was just an early term for warriors or something? But then, Lightningtail was called a powerful warrior, so who knows. But it seems fine to give them warrior versions 20:16, 5/06/2017

Lightningtail
it's me, your (un)favourite person. anyway, I was thinking maybe he should be renamed, since it seems similar to Gray Wing's case? was listed as such in sotc, was Lightning Tail right until his death and after, never mentioned as Lightningtail apart from that. I dunno. 03:17, April 12, 2017 (UTC)

I agree. Kinda irks me that Gray Wing was renamed but not Lightning Tail.

Why would that irk you? We absolutely had 0% confirmation he died before he became Lightningtail. :/ 03:30, 4/12/2017

-shrugs- It just looks wrong because of all the Early Settlers names are spaced out and his isn't.

So? It is not changed until there is confirmation. We don't go on hunches. <span style="">16:37, 4/12/2017

I think it should be renamed, so we stay consistent. Since his current residence is StarClan, and is listed as Lightning Tail there, then that's what the page name should reflect.

Uh what more confirmation do we need? Like Skt said, he was only Lightningtail in Secrets of the Clans as opposed to all the other books he appeared in...

Again; so? We don't rename the page unless he was confirmed to have died as either Lightningtail or Lightning Tail. :/ <span style="">17:53, 4/12/2017

Oh, shoot. Forgot about that.

And he died as Lightning Tail, so rename the page.

Wahhh Lightning Tail's dead :'( Unless he appears in StarClan as Lightningtail (like Mothflight), then we should name his page Lightning Tail.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  02:00, April 16, 2017 (UTC)

I agree with the comments stating Lightning Tail. Plus, Secrets of the Clans is pretty irrelevant at this point (though that's my personal opinion, do not get up in arms :P ).. --PyroNacht (talk) 20:53, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

Anymore comments?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:30, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

the kittypet
...why does that guy even get an article? don't we have a minor characters article for a reason? he's not major in any way, and yes I'm aware cats like the old she-cat and the stranger exist. I'm of the opinion those shouldn't either. 19:50, April 17, 2017 (UTC)

so then neither should Leafstar's mom, and Petal/Fox's mother, by that logic?

I always thought the minor characters page was for cats who lacked proper history +/ a name. These characters seem to have a decent bit of history, at least, and a description so I think they should be kept. Especially Leafstar's Mother, though, since she appears in three different books....

This is why I started to delete the page. This character should not get a page, and tbh neither should The Stranger or The Old she-cat. They are not major characters. They may have descriptions, but so do some of the characters on the minor character pages. I only think these unnamed characters should only get pages if they have linked family, for example Leafstar's mother and Petal/Fox's mother, and Featherkit (before he was named). I'm gonna have to agree with skt <span style="">20:02, 4/17/2017

And you had no right to, Winter. =\ Not without a discussion. The kittypet, along with some of the other unnamed cats, actually do something and aren't just random....like half our allegiance-only cats.

like I said via skype I can't agree with him getting an article when some of those minor characters have about as much relevance as he does. 20:09, April 17, 2017 (UTC)

But technically some of the other minor characters that get mentioned with descriptions and no name do something too? They're either patrolling, some help the warriors, or some are fighting. We don't give every single unnamed character a page. <span style="">20:10, 4/17/2017

I definitely don't think we should get rid of pages for cats who are important and are related to another character, like Leafstar's Mother or Petal and Fox's mother. I also think we should also have pages for cats who have a description, a little bit of a history, and important dialogue. If they contribute to the plot and aren't a cat who's mentioned in only one or two lines, they should get a page, but regardless, if we're not going to have The Kittypet as a page, we shouldn't have the Old She-cat or The Stranger one either. 20:41, April 17, 2017 (UTC)

I swear I added this character to the minor characters page. Well, he is only there for a couple of lines. The Old She-cat and The Stranger however, are more than just a few lines, and have more personality. They should stay, but not the kittypet.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:34, April 17, 2017 (UTC)

Speaking of pages, Darrel, Barley and Nightwhisper has mothers (and Nightwhisper has siblings, and Darrel has father and sister) that are in the minor characters pages. If we are doing pages for family relations, won't they get a page?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:55, April 17, 2017 (UTC)

I disagree with Nightwhisper and them's parents/siblings getting a page. It's a different case, tbh. Cats like Leafstar's Mother actually do have an impact in the books, and even Petal/Fox's mother is mentioned a liberal amount. These other unnamed family members, unless significant, should stay on the minor characters page imo.

Yeah, just to clarify my own comment, cats like Nightwhisper and Barley's parents are some of the one-line characters that I said shouldn't have a page. I meant that only family relationships that are somewhat important and in which the character is described with some amount of detail or is seen, like Leafstar's Mother or Petal/Fox's Mother. 23:39, April 17, 2017 (UTC)

The kittypet sort of had a purpose and actually interacted with a cat in the story, so I think he should stay. I'm not sure about the others too, but if we have one for some of the mothers and such that still had something to do with the story, and interacted in some way, then we should keep it all. :) 05:22, April 18, 2017 (UTC)

I don't see how just getting beat up is really that important? you could say the same od a dozen minor characters. 05:50, April 18, 2017 (UTC)

I personally think that characters without a major impact on the books should have a page, anyway. Regardless of how significant they are, we never know if they'll show up again and then the whole page will have to be written again. I think that we're better safe than sorry in keeping the pages of not just this character, but others. --PyroNacht (talk) 20:57, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

then by that we'd have to give like.....any cat that hasn't faded an article. it's too much for such minor characters. 16:14, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

Anymore comments?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:30, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

SkyClan's Ancestors
Alright, so since they're reunited with normal StarClan now, should we just list them all as StarClan, and have SkyClan ancestors be a past affiliation?

I wouldn't say have SkyClan ancestors be a past affie, because SkyClan ancestors and StarClan are pretty much the same thing.

No, it should be a past affiliation. SkyClan Ancestors were distinctively separate from StarClan for some time. 05:30, April 19, 2017 (UTC)

Agreeing with Winterpaw.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  06:42, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

I find myself agreeing with keeping it as a past affiliation. They were separate. --PyroNacht (talk) 20:58, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

They should definitely be seperate. They were like the two rival Clans of the skies, minus the rival part. 21:46, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

Anymore comments?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:30, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

Batear ~ Silver Nomination
I'm hoping to do his charart image if we can get our computer set up in time. Thanks to David for writing the history and helping out, and a few others. :) (This is my first nomination) 06:54, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

Comments before vote?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  02:04, April 25, 2017 (UTC)

Vote's up!<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:49, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

Fenneldust ~ Silver Nomination
Once again, thanks to David and others for their help. 07:12, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

Comments before vote?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  02:04, April 25, 2017 (UTC)

Vote's up!<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:49, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

Houndleap ~ Silver Nomination
Thanks to Water, .Trollsky, Spooky and Snowed. This is my first nomination and I have no idea what I'm doing or if this is right. 17:03, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

The article's history isn't finished. When Spottedpaw returns with the bracken, she has a conversation with him and treats his wound. Pretty sure he's mentioned a little after that in her talk with Thistleclaw, too. And, I do believe he'd have at least one suitable quote from that

Fixed I think I got it. I'll get to the quote later, though. 18:17, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

Fixed Sorry for the delay on the quote. Hopefully this one's good enough. 21:34, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

Since I'm a mouse-brain, I'm taking this straight to Vote's up!<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:49, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

Vickys Facebook and Sus characters
Alright guys, im sorry about this. But everything that we have put on for the missing kits has to go, as they are proven to be fan characters and not canon seen here. Vicky is the actual author for these books, and while su has done everything that she could for us about these missing kits, Vicky proves that these characters are not canon, and therefore should not exist on this wiki. :( <span style="">22:23, 4/24/2017

I won't disagree, but I wil say that if we remove everything we added from Su's cites we would be waisting months of time, not only missing kits but all the descriptions, residences, and family relationships revealed outside of the project would have to be removes as well. I just don't like the fact we wasted a lot of time, not only having a discussion that took several months, but also adding all these things. 22:45, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

didn't she say su was checking these with her or something similar? is this just being ignored now? (not being hostile or anything just???) 22:47, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

Skt, that was said. Vicky just took it back now I guess...

I hadn't seen that post up until about five seconds ago, but I do think that we will have to remove all the stuff related to the Missing Kits posts since Vicky explicitly states that they're not canon. She did say that she had checked it all with Vicky (which still appears to be true from what Vicky said) but I guess that even though the suggestions are approved, that doesn't make them canon. My apologies for just adding a bunch of stuff from the most recent Missing Kits, oops 22:49, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

Is everything confirmed by Su non-canon, or just the missing kits? ErmineGlow (talk) 22:54, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

only says missing kits. does this stuff get relegated to trivia now or what? 22:56, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

"I am also grateful to Susi for posting her ideas for the Missing Kits on this page. I have said it before and I'll say it again, these are Susi's suggestions, NOT canon." So it seems like Vicky's saying Su's overall ideas are not canon...? Because she talks about stuff that's been posted on the page, which is more than the Missing Kits.

she references 'her oc's' though, which seems to only be implying the ones who were made from scratch? not ones like skunkpaw and the like. to me, anyway. 23:01, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

Others may read it differently, but the way I see the post, only the missing kits are not canon. So while we'd have to scrap a good lot of images and info, we only have to remove missing kits stuff. However, I do think it might be smart to ask Vicky to clarify on one thing. She says that it might've been fun to let Su share her OCs, but that they aren't canon. Before Vicky leaves for good, maybe we can ask if some of the other stuff (like -kit -apprentice) rank confirmations aren't canon too. As of the post, they aren't, but it seemed like Vicky just didn't want to conform the series to these new characters. The ones who don't appear would get tossed, but some of them quite honestly appear a fair amount? At least, to the limit a minor character can. To throw in, if all her ideas are false, the eye color confirmations probably get removed too.

@Skt, yeah, that would include Skunkpaw and others. I'm guessing it means Su's OCs overall are going to be given the axe then.

if it only includes the missing kits, skunkpaw and such wouldn't be scrapped. they appeared, just were given names and descriptions. that still has to be decided first, of course. 23:06, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

I don't think Skunkpaw would count since he wasn't actually revealed through Missing Kits. The way I'm reading the post, only stuff from Missing Kits is what Vicky has explicity stated is non-canon and thus the only stuff that should be removed yet. As far as the Missing Kits, though, I don't think that should even be in trivia, since Vicky literally says that they're Su's "OCs". 23:07, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

Ive been trying to post this for like 15 minutes lol everyone stop commenting gawsh :p

But shouldnt we take the word of the author herself? This is nothing against Susi, but Vicky did explicitly state these characters are non canon, which means they are fan characters. She even says they are Su's OCs! I guess shes taking back her word now, im on board with you skt, im just as confused. If i may ask, if we get rid of everyone elses fan characters why are we not allowed to get rid of Su's? I mean yes, its months of work down the drain, but sometimes it happens, and theres nothing we can really do about it. If this is a canon only wiki, we should get rid of Su's fan characters. She may have been vickys helper, but thats not fair to anyone else tbh, as i asked above  <span style="">23:15, 4/24/2017

lul sorry guess everyone has....feelings about it. I guess if she said it as basically her last thing as an author of this series that the missing kits aren't canon.....but yeah if it's decided missing kits only, I don't see why we can't keep the non missing kits, as characters who appeared in the series (like ivy said above, at worst they can be put into minor characters I guess) and keep the descriptions and such if it's not explicitly applied to those. IF I make sense. 23:20, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

I think we should still ask Vicky about all the other stuff Su confirmed, I don't want to have to remove everything, but I think we should know if big lists of descriptions, and big lists of residences are still canon or not. 23:26, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

Gonna have to agree with Winter here. Vicky just said they weren't canon, so they need to be removed. 23:38, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

I think we should ask and get confirmation to avoid any further confusion. Better to ask and learn that maybe SOME of it was canon, rather than delete it all and find out it was canon later. 23:41, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

What about already canon cats like Splashkit or Morningkit? Should we just remove the description and StarClan affliation or treat it all as canon? ErmineGlow (talk) 23:43, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

@Ermie, I think they should be removed because Vicky says they are Su's suggestions. I'm guessing that means everything she's confirmed.

Guys youre all missing this point here. The post says the missing kits only. :/ <span style="">23:48, 4/24/2017

The Missing Kits really helped with peoples curiosity over the unknown family trees though. Besides Vicky only turned on her previous statement because of the backlash imo. Any who I think we should wait for a more clear reply from Vicky. It would take lots of work to get rid of all the edits and they I really like them.--Firepup16 (talk) 23:59, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

What if we make a category or warning of some sort stating that it's not really canon? Purplee03 (talk) 00:02, April 25, 2017 (UTC)

@Purplee03 because if it's not really canon then it shouldn't be in here. 00:04, April 25, 2017 (UTC)

Im gonna say this again. There should be no other confirmation if this post is confirmation itself? She literally says the missing kits arent canon. If theyre not canon we need to get rid of them, as they are fan characters. And those are not allowed on this encyclopedia. <span style="">00:48, 4/25/2017

Wow how did I not get an email about this discussion? It feels like something exploded O.O Her post seems vague honestly (actually, some of her other posts seem to be following that too) so I'd say just ask for clarification. What does she mean? Just the missing kits? Or everything Su has ever said? Because honestly it was said before that it was canon, so we're getting mixed messages here.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:59, April 25, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, as annoyed as I am about this... because it does seem like something that was done because of the Spottedleaf's Heart backlash... I think we need more clarification, due to the conflicting messages. Stealth, you're on Facebook (pretty sure I've seen you there before anyways), could you ask Vicky about this? You're one of the few I've seen who hasn't been hostile or rude in their messages. While Vicky only said the missing kits, I do think a more concrete answer is necessary. Vicky knew we were using this on the wiki; why did she wait months and months to say this, especially after praising the wiki countless times? =/

HEY GUYS LOOK AT THIS AND THIS. Now what do we do?

Why do people have to be so disgusting? And I really don't even know anymore...

Damn, I didn't think they'd actually go that far. Since everything's gone, we lost the leader list confirmations + a bunch of other stuff so like. The only thing we have is that one vvcap screencap of the missing kits, which is now useless, so I guess maybe we ask around to see whos got old screencaps??? Honestly we should've screencapped everything since the beginning but. The past is the past. It's really sad that the fandom has stooped to this level. I used to have a bunch saved but I deleted them because why keep screencaps?? However, I do suppose we could send a request to Kate for some of the bigger more simple things like the Owl Eyes/ Owlstar (SoTC) merge confirmation etc. because those are kinda important..

I can't believe this happened, I feel really bad for Su, and now many of our pages have links to nowhere. Should the be all removed? because as of now, cats like Shinecloud never existed. 12:19, April 25, 2017 (UTC)

Hey there I wanted to drop in and tell you guys that over in the German Wiki we've made screenshots of a lot of Su's answers (though I'm afraid that some will be missing :/). Feel free to use those (at least if you decide to keep Su's information). If not, sorry for bothering 12:33, April 25, 2017 (UTC)

Along with the above offer from the German Wiki (thank you Dewdrop- I will stop by shortly- which I can help translate as I'm a fluent speaker of German), I think we should wait for anger to subside before we make a clear decision. Many of us (including me) are extremely angry about the fandom (rightfully so).. --PyroNacht (talk) 16:43, April 25, 2017 (UTC)

It's upsetting about what happened to Su, but we still need to act upon what Vicky has said. If what she said was (and rightfully so) "these are NOT canon", then we need to remove the missing kits lists, end of story. Su even told me that she fears Vicky won't clarify what she has said for at least half a year, due to the fandom's hate. She said Vicky is trying to get as far away as possible from her page for a long while. I'm not going to link anything here, as this was in PM, and Su has told me she doesn't want anything she says to people in private to be public, if that makes any sense? But we still need to get rid of the missing kits at least, as that was what Vicky literally said. She didn't say anything about anything else Su has said, except for the missing kits.

On a side note, Su also told me she's done with the Warriors fandom now and "It was a pleasure to meet you and everyone else. I have many new friends now and I'm glad I could help a bit." <span style="">22:00, 4/25/2017

Poor Su and Vicky! What is wrong with people????? I will do ask Snowed asked, because it is a good idea but I think we should wait until things blow over (what the heck is going on with world?? I guess that's social media) when things are calmed down and Su and Vicky will be more inclined to go on facebook, then I'll go ask. Man, if only everyone was as polite as Snowed says about me. But I know everyone here is awesome already XD seeing these comments makes me feel so proud of being a part of this community.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:24, April 25, 2017 (UTC)

I kinda agree w/ Winter in that we should take action quick. I checked up on a few warriors wiki's in other languages, and each is in a different spot - because they saw that our discussion hadn't been concluded. One is on the track of making a 'полукано" - "once canon" (used to be canon) category, while some others are just waiting for us to do something because I guess we're the largest warriors wiki? Actually... yeah we definitely are the biggest. So I guess they want to follow our lead. Thats what I got from a translator. But anyway, that's my piece.

If people don't like Su, then that's their problem because she's a wonderful person. And people don't like this wiki, they don't have to look at it. This isn't Su's fault, she was probably having a lot of fun with her OC's. We do need to take action quick, like said above, but can we really before Stealth asks Vicky and gets a answer? (You rock, Stealth!) 00:23, April 28, 2017 (UTC)

I'm sorry to push, but if we haven't gotten an answer within the past 3 days, then we can guarantee no answer will be directly given for a long while. This is a canon only Wiki, and while some of these characters are great, we need to take action now. Leaving fan characters on a canon only wiki will only make people ask "but if you're leaving hers on, why can't I put mine on???" which we want to avoid. Since Vicky directly said the missing kits were NOT canon, we need to get rid of them. I know some of you want to wait, but Vicky can say one of 4 things: 1) Su and I came up with these characters, but they are still not canon, as I'm not changing the story to fit them all in. (which imo is a odd for her to say considering these are characters that were actually there, just not given a name, just descriptions or genders? but meh). 2) The missing kits are not canon, like I said in my post, 3) everything Su has said is not canon, she was just my helper to answer questions on the spot (like no offense to Su or Vicky but that's kind of what it seems like, since Vicky herself has said that she has never once thought of any major family trees, she kinda just plops them in and makes stuff up on the spot... and 4) these are official characters. I mean the most damage that could be done is us deleting the pages, but as you can see on previously deleted pages that there's still history left that can be restored by admins. If #4 is the case, then we can just restore them and pretend none of this happened, because it's literally just that simple.

TLDR; we need to get rid of the missing kits cats asap. <span style="">02:19, 4/28/2017

Chill a bit, Winter. Some of us have things to do outside the wiki (like I work third shift + damn near full-time hours) and we can't always be online. What we do need to do is remove the Missing Kits segment without a doubt, as Vicky's words trump Su's, unless Kate confirms the information....which I haven't seen her do so. As far as I'm aware, it was just the kits segment, so I think we're good to remove that based on our policies regarding canonical information.

I said I would wait until things blow over a little before asking. I've asked now but it might take a bit. I'm seeing people making major edits already, but shouldn't we be waiting until this discussion is concluded?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:17, April 28, 2017 (UTC)

it's only the missing kits stuff. it's explicitly said non canon, so I don't see how we can really argue against that. 22:21, April 28, 2017 (UTC)

Sooooo sorry to complicate things more, but there is this http://vvcap.com/75ewnQNWBSx. 23:56, April 28, 2017 (UTC)

Well thats a bad thing. Kate just said that if it isn't in a book, then it isn't really legit, even if by an erin so that covers like blog/facebook cites from other places too? I hope not... But for the record, I disagree with a semi-canon category, as we are canon only wiki.

Stealth, the NOT Policy trumps any discussion. As per that, this stuff has to be removed. We do not publish original thought here; due to Vicky's statement, the missing kits has become what falls under 'original thought', due to it being non-canon.

Ok, so due to this new information from Kate, what are we going to do about this? <span style="">00:16, 4/29/2017

So have we decided if Su's information regarding other characters is canon or not? Or are we focusing on just the missing kits for now? --PyroNacht (talk) 00:25, April 29, 2017 (UTC)

It's just the missing kits. We can't ignore something said by an author. It seems pretty clear to me what the message was trying to say. And according to the NOT policy, we need to remove anything not canon, which in this case are Su's missing kits characters <span style="">00:27, 4/29/2017

Yeah, if anyone's got a complete list of things included within the Missing Kits segments, that would be nice to have. I'm having so many issues trying to remember exactly what was included with that and what wasn't. I got some of it already, along with some of the page moves, but?? There was a lot of information within those posts that I know I'm forgetting about.

Also as for the pages and images, please tag them for deletion and I (or Spooky or whoever can delete) will eventually get to them. Batch delete can get rid of all of these things with a matter of clicks, so don't try and just wipe the pages or anything.

Someone asked for a list of the missing kits. I have on here, there are all the links to the posts. I hope it helps finding all the information that needs to be deleted. Also, will there be an extra discussion about the statement of Kate? 10:19, May 1, 2017 (UTC)

Kate was being baited to answer a question about something said on Facebook (I think) which I do believe was a confirmation about the Missing Kits thing. As far as I'm concerned, it would be way too much to suddenly deem things that authors say as non-canon. Otherwise, we'd have literally nothing else to go on; we'd lose Firestar's cause of death cite, despite Kate saying multiple times that wounds was the reason he died, we'd lose confirmation for future books, characters, ect.

I do not believe she was talking that all things said on social media need to be removed; it's for speculation and things of that nature. She knows we use her blog and other social websites as a citation for information, and it would be a huge backtrack (read: literally years). This is more of a reference to the Missing Kits segment, I believe, and should not be taken as her saying nothing else is to be added. She's talking true canon, which by definition, is something that can only be said in a book. Plus, that comment is talking about speculation, and we already do not add that to this wiki anyways.

Vicky's cite says missing kits are false. There's nothing to say the rest of what Su says isn't canon too.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:34, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

I may be misinterpreting what you're saying, Stealth, but we have no other confirmation that Su's other stuff is invalid. We do have the cite that says the missing kits are not canon, but nothing else that Su has said, and Vicky has not clarified. But due to the NOT policy, we have to get rid of them anyway, regardless. <span style="">23:38, 5/05/2017

Yes that is what I meant. Missing Kits doesn't count, but everything else Su says is canon.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:50, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

Sleek Fur ~ Silver Nomination
Yay! Thunderstar and Violet Dawn finally had kits! Sorry if I can't nominate this. Most credit goes to .Trollsky and alot of thanks to the others. 23:36, April 28, 2017 (UTC)

The history needs to include when Thunderstar mentions that litter's birth at the Gathering - something similar to what's on Lightning Stripe's page

Fixed  00:47, April 29, 2017 (UTC)

Comments before vote? Sorry I'm a little late.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:49, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

Regarding Citations
Alright, so I've seen a few citations that are mentioned in other books. My question is- which book citations are more important? Should the cites be replaced by the earliest chronological books if there are multiple or? For example, Mapleshade's mate is revealed in Mapleshade's Vengeance Chapter One, but also in Crookedstar's Promise.. --PyroNacht (talk) 20:12, May 1, 2017 (UTC)

Honestly, there is not really any preference. Although in this case, Appledusk is named in Mapleshade's Vengeance so that would be more preferred.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:38, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

Missing Kits Information
I know the information revealed in the project is not canon any longer but I remember some relationships (not new characters, just family relationships of season 1 ThunderClan.) revealed in the project were also published by Su in different posts, some even before Missing Kits began. My question is: if me or any other founds this cites should we add them? After all we are still using non-missing kits cites. 16:44, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

If they are not laid out like the actual missing lits segments then theyre still good <span style="">17:02, 5/04/2017

Ok so, I found Patchpelt/Goldenflower. But while searching I also found these two. 17:32, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

Yes those count as canon.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:18, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

Joining Request
If the project is open, please may I join? Thanks! 19:33, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

Yes welcome! Make sure to read the guidelines!<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:39, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

OK, I will, thanks! I'm going to read them again now, just incase I missed something. 17:30, May 6, 2017 (UTC)

Status's
So with our status templates, what's our rules on cats like Firestar's, Cloudtail's and Scourge's siblings? Some we have listed as "Living, (as of Fire and Ice)" and others we have listed as "Status Unknown". It's a little confusing.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:03, May 6, 2017 (UTC)

Technically it should be for cats with every last known sighting, as their Living (As of etc.) For example, some cats like Wrenflight are seen living as of Tallstar's Revenge, which is what it should be Living (As of Tallstar's Revenge) unless stated otherwise, as seen by the starclan cite. Also, side note but why is there a cite for her death by a poisoned rabbit if we cant prove thats her in moonrise...?? <span style="">00:07, 5/06/2017

Su said so in a facebook post, but I'm not sure if it was a missing kits or a normal post.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:11, May 6, 2017 (UTC)

Shinecloud ~ Silver Nomination
Poor kitty. Credits to those who worked on it.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:03, May 6, 2017 (UTC)

Mocha ~ Silver Nomination
Credits to those who worked on it before me.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:03, May 6, 2017 (UTC)

Smoke ~ Silver Nomination
Sad story. :(<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  05:29, May 6, 2017 (UTC)

Loki ~ Silver Nomination
Well that toke a while. Thanks to the other users who worked on it. 21:58, May 6, 2017 (UTC)

You are welcome! Probably going to get told I can't comment just for this <span style="">22:00, 5/06/2017


 * The summary is pretty redundant in name usage - try and remove some of the names to substitute with pronouns and descriptions such as "the black she-cat", 'he', or 'she' etc. It occurs quote frequently throughout the entirety of the history.
 * On the last half of the history; combine some of the paragraphs. One in particular, "When the fight is finally over, Loki is said to have retreated.", shouldn't be a paragraph in itself because it's only one sentence?
 * If you could add some quotes, that'd be lovely. I remember that there's at least a few decent ones, and a bit of dialogue might be nice as well.
 * "The Clan cats win back RiverClan territory, and Zelda introduces herself and Loki. They both ask to join forces with the Clan cats, and they are welcomed to fight alongside them." is really vague, imo. Can you detail that part more? I remember the cat they talked to was Bramblestar, but that isn't mentioned there.
 * Same thing with the last paragraph^^ It's undetailed, and could use some expansion.
 * "Before the kittypets attempt to leave to return to their housefolk, Loki snidely remarks about how his housefolk will try to feed him, but he's not hungry" -detail that conversation too, because just inserting it like that makes it seem out of context, and I know there was some kind of conversation with other cats included there.