Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

A Gentle Reminder
Any mentors out there who have a spot and free time to take on an apprentice should go check out the poor, starving apprentices who would like your attention :3 And a note to the leader and deputy: if you see that an apprentice's request for a mentor has gone a while without anybody volunteering, you should ask a mentor if they are willing to take on an apprentice, and if they acquiesce, approve it. Thanks guys. 07:44 Sun Jan 22

Userbox
I was thinking, we have the "this user is a mentor of Project Character Art," but could we have a userbox that says "This user was mentored by USERNAME in Project Character Art." Or "This user has mentored USERNAME in Project Character Art." Something like that, and of course, USERNAME is replaced with the like of the username, linked. Thought about that? 06:36, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

That's what I originally wanted it to be, but I guess Icy misunderstood. I don't know how to change it though... XD If anyone knows how, I agree that we should. I fail at coding. :P  Pale  Legs   ♪Be prepared...♪  08:25, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

I have some thing like that on my userpage I just need to know the template page or I could just put the coding up here... first tell me what you think its under 'Other Userboxes' 22:24, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

It's alright Wildfire, I already got it planned before I posted this. How's this one that I posted right there? <<< -- 01:01, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Mine is just like that! xD Except it says "This user was mentored by the awesomest mentor ever" 02:14, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Really? I didn't see it on your page. O___O XD And another one could say "This user mentored USERNAME." If we decide to make one like that, can you make one like that Wildfire? 02:17, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Sure! We also might want to make alts. that say "This user is mentoring USERNAME" and "This user is being mentored by USERNAME" or something that last one seems long 15:35, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

I would think so. 16:11, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. :) 23:22, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. 06:19, Thu, Jan, 26, 2012

So can they be made then? I think the different variations should be; This user is mentoring soandso, This user is mentored by soandso, This user was mentored by soandso, and last This user mentored soandso. I think we should also have a userbox saying that This user graduated the mentor program, but that's just me. It may be too many. :P 03:04, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the graduated userbox, but just a little "edit" or so to the this user is mentored by soanso, I think it should be this mentor is being mentored by soandso; without the italic text though. 07:02, Sun, Feb, 5, 2012

Well...Who would like to make a userbox? You may if you are able to make one. I think that if you make one, paste the coding here like I did so we can inspect it. 01:02, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

A solution to the Squirrelflight Conundrum
Hey guys. I've been thinking about the queens... again. And I've been talking with some friends about them. And I was specifically thinking of Squirrelflight.

Even though Squirrelflight clearly held the queen rank, we've withheld any queen charart for her based on the fact that the charart shows a pregnant cat. However, there's a simple fix to this: simply edit out the pregnant belly. It's a simple lineart adjustment, really. Fact of the matter is, since she actually held the rank, she should get the charart.

And, I know I might sound like a hypocrit for saying this, since I was the one to propose the vote that got the queen rule passed, but I think that any non-clan cat (plus Leafpool and Yellowfang) should not have a queen charart, per se, but should have an altered charart of the rank they held when they were pregnant. Agan, a simple fix, just edit in a pregnant belly. In the end, they can't be called queens if they didn't hold the rank or aren't in the Clans. All the other cats that got queen chararts for being mentioned as having had kits would be fine, since it's likely they were queens, but say Nutmeg for instance. Nutmeg would just get a pregnant looking queen Kittypet (derp) charart.

How's this sound to everyone? 22:22, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea. ♫Purplemoon♪  Happy Valentine's Day! Chocolate, please?  22:24, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah this sounds good. 22:27, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

I quite like this idea. Nice suggestion, Shelly~ 22:28, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Wondering about what the file names would be.... File:Leafpool.mc.pregnant.png? Or would we just go with alt like we do with injuries? 22:32, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

I would think an alt, but if you guys disagree, it can be the other one. ♫Purplemoon♪  Happy Valentine's Day! Chocolate, please?  22:34, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Wonderful idea, Shelly! You get my support~! 22:42, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

I took the liberty of preparing a couple of potential linearts. The first is what could be Squirrelflight's queen image, robbed of the extra fat stomach and fat flaps. The other is a potential pregnant medcat, Leafpool. How's that?

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/warriors/images/archive/2/2f/20120202234423!Shellyheart.png

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/warriors/images/archive/2/2f/20120202234416!Shellyheart.png

23:46, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

These are wonderful ^^ I think an alt would be fine since Longtail's blind warrior is an alt. Would Squirrelflight's file still be called queen? 23:53, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Yup. It's a rank, not a way of life (though Daisy and Ferncloud would disagree). And I think that the not-pregnant blank could be used for Daisy and Ferncloud as well, by the way! (oh, I'm full of good ideas) Anyway... (reserves Squirrelflight just in case). Can I do this please? 23:58, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see why not. 00:03, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I'm in support of this too. 00:10, February 3, 2012 (UTC) Shadewing

I completely support the non-pregnant queen thing, but, though I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean about the pregnant kittypet and MC chararts, from what I do understand, I think those are unnecessary, as we already have images for all of them showing they were pregnant. However I do love the idea of having a tweaked queen image. :) 00:31, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Well, its' jsut that "queen" is a rank that is held, not just a pregnant cat. And it wasn't held by Leafpool or Yellowfang or any non-Clan cat. Thus my "pregnant alts" solution. 00:33, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

But we went to a vote on it, and I still think the queen images fit just fine to show all the cats who have been mothers. There's no reason to change something that's not broken, especially after we already made the images. It's a nice thought, it just doesn't seem really necessarily is all. 00:49, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to have to agree with Paleh. It's unnecessary. 03:04, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Shelly. I like the idea of a tweaked queen charart, as it shows they wern't pregnant. I also like the idea of a tweaked blank showing that they were pregnant at the time. As Shelly said, it's a rank, not a pregnancy image. 04:55, Fri, Feb, 3, 2012

I was wrong in the queen vote, at least in part. We should respect the fact that being a queen is a Clan rank. You know I'm not doing this for any personal reason except concern for the project: all but two of my queen image would be deleted and replace in these circumstances. 05:01, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of the unpregnant Squirrelflight, but I'm not so keen on modifying charart for a pregnant cat not in the Clans. Queen is a general term for a female cat, both in real life and the Warrior's world. I do not think it is necessarily a rank in only the Clans. That's like saying kits out of the Clan should get different chararts. Breeze whisker  05:26, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Breeze, you took the words out of my mouth. Queen isn't always just a rank in the clans. Besides, cats who are pregnant outside the clans have been called queens before, like for instance, if I remember right Speckle was called a queen because of her kits along with a few other cats outside the clans who I can't quite remember. It's not just the rank in the clans, and I think all the mothers should keep their images. Like I said, we all took a vote on this before, and the majority of us agreed that it would be fitting to change the requirements for a queen image. Why change it if we already voted and there's not much reason to switch it to other blanks? It would create pointless work. 07:03, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I like the idea for Squirrelflight, most definitely. I'm not really sure about the Leafpool blank, after seeing the comments above. ^^ But I still really like the look of it. 04:53, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

In the context of the blanks, I am going to attest that they are representations of the ranks, and not of the generic word "Queen" (of which that blank has no business being considered a representative of, as the word just refers to a female cat, and does not require pregnancy, according to Paleclaw's argument, being female would qualify a cat to use that blank) I've always drawn a line in the sand about what cats should get what blanks. That line being "had to have formally held the rank". Not been called that rank by a cat or anything like that (in fact, this idea that being called something = getting the queen blank directly conflicts with a similar ruling in another project regarding mentor status and who qualifies it, so there is a potential precedent that might be applied here). 14:29, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

I know it would be a bit of work, guys, but since when have we shied away from that? Did we not just get through remaking every single apprentice charart? Are we not in the process of redoing every single loner charart? Are we not considering even doing the rogues? We are PCA. We do what we do and we love it. The fact that this would be a lot of work is irrelevant. And, if you guys haven't noticed, having queen charrts for some cats have confused other members of the site. Countless times I've had to remove queen names from Yellowfang and Leafpool's charts because people keep adding them. They were never queens, and us representing them as such is a misrepresentation of facts. Yes, the word queen has been applied to just female cats... in the first book only, though, and the authors later admitted (if I remember correctly) that calling all of the females queens was an idea they quickly scrapped. Queen is a rank in the Clans. Only in the Clans, which is why we lable kit-mother images differently. We need to respect the integrity of this. 21:00, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

For the kit-mothers, I think it could be like the to-bes and softpaws. Same lineart, but different file name and rank on the chart. 21:04, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Oh and also, I've said this in the past, lineart should only be made for a rank that is actually listed in the allegiances. The fact Leafpool is mentioned with a swelled belly would count as an alternate not and would not get a queen lineart. Same with the kittypets and loners. I agree with what Shelly is saying. It makes more sense. I'm pretty sure only the clan cats refer to the pregnant she-cats as queens. 21:11, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Kit, I was saying they call all pregnant cats queens, not all female ones. Like Shelly said, that idea was scrapped early in the series. But calling pregnant cats queens is still going on. I wish I had Sunrise to cite it, but Speckle was called a queen cause she had kits along with a few other cats, though I can't remember who. I think Daisy might have been one, but I'm not sure. And yes, the Kitmother and queen lineart should be the same, like to-bes and softpaws. And I'm not saying we shouldn't work that's necessary just cause it's hard, but I see this as really unnecessary. There's no point in it if we had a vote just recently deciding the definition of queen. Like I said, all cats who are pregnant have been called queens in the book and so I think they should get the chararts, as they have. I don't think this should be changed. 01:52, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

I stand by the idea that being called a queen by a character in a society in which Pregnant = Queen doesn't validate a character as having been a queen. Playing by that rule, then Lionpaw should have been given a leader charart since he was called a Leader. You have to pick the line you're going to walk and stick to it consistently. If you want a lineart for pregnancy, fine, but don't pretend that being pregnant means a cat is automatically eligible for the rank of queen. 02:39, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Fine then, maybe the queen blank should be considered more of a pregnant cat blank then. But I still think that we should keep the images we have for pregnant cats on their pages, as is, and not make any pregnant alts. I'm standing by my opinion on this one. 03:01, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

I'm still with you Paleh. And it's not about it being too much work, it's about us having unnecessary extra images. The alternates I'm fine with, but it's these little things. Like honestly, how much difference is there between the medicine cat blank and the pregnant one? Not a lot. These extra images will have too much in common to really be called alternates. I also think the queen blank should be considered a "pregnant cat blank" since those images are significantly different from a warrior, loner, kittypet, or what have you. 03:54, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

I'm goign against the queens blanks being changed to a pregnant cat blank. If that's the case, we might as well call the kittypet blanks "Cats who have been with twolegs blank", or call the leader blanks "Cats who are in charge of others blank" and so on. As said before, we have blanks for the ranks held, and a queen is one of them. The pregnant loners, kittypets, and Leafpool and Yellowfang were not queens. Therefor they don't get a queen blank. If they were to get a pregant alternative, it's either the one we've got suggested now or none at all. And just a note: If we're going to make non-pregnant queen chararts for Ferncloud and Daisy, then Goldenflower should get one to because in Midnight I think someone said that she was just helping out in the nursury before moving to the elders rank. 07:22, Sun, Feb, 5, 2012

In a way DJ, the kittypet blank is that. It's a bit more specific than that, but it's the same basic idea. It's just certain things that qualify them to get a blank, like actually being called a kittypet, or being kept as one, rather than being kept as a hostage. Just like there would be certain things to qualify a pregnant cat getting a blank. And going by what you guys are saying, Kittypets, Loners, and Rogues should get blanks because they're not "ranks". How would a pregnant cat blank be any different? And yes, Goldenflower would get a non-pregnant blank if Ferncloud and daisy get one. 08:42, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Forgot to post this with my last post, but I agree with what Oblivion said about the pregnant alt being too similar. There's barely any difference. It'd be like giving alts for very minor injuries that healed later. I mean big ones change the characters appearance forever, but getting pregnant doesn't change how you look forever, just for a few months. It's just too minor and too similar. 08:45, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

In the end, me speaking is just me speaking, and the project will have to decide how they want to deal with the issue. Mostly, I'm pointing out that very inconsistent lines are being drawn to decide who gets a Queen blank and who doesn't. (IE: Non-clan who get referred to by the rank title because they're pregnant get it despite having not held the rank, while Leafpool doesn't get it because she "never held the rank".) Perhaps breaking it into two blanks might be the easiest solution if people are so deadset that every pregnant cat get art to acknowledge that fact and creating a "pregnant" lineart to supplement the "Queen" lineart (which I would say could be used for "pregnant but didn't hold the queen rank"). As for the Rogue, Loner and Kittypet blanks... They are used in a different fashion than the clan ranks blanks because they reflect something a little less... cut and dry as the rest. But they appear on lists for those ranks and thus that's the blank we assign them. All of the blanks thus far have been assigned based on holding a rank in allegiance except the Queen one (and the Kit one, now that I think about it). It's a glaring exception that makes my OCD brain tweak a little bit. 14:43, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

I agree that was need to be consistant on what we do with the blanks. I'm against the idea of having 2 blanks, I don't think it's worth it. I still agree that a cat only gets a queen charart if they held the rank and were pregnant at the time. Take Minty for example, she has a queen charart, yet it was never held and it is not listed in the charcat. However, take Snowflake as an example, she sort of held the rank, and was referred as a kit, and it is listed in the charcat. I think there should be a vote, but I still stand by my opinion. 05:38, Thu, Feb, 9, 2012

I really don't think all that is needed. I say just go with the simplest solution: relabel the queen linearts as "pregnant" linarts and be done with it. 05:41, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

I do think that is the simplest way to fix this problem, but we don't back away from creating more art, don't we? The reason I'm against of making a pregnant cat blank is because we need a line of consistansy. All the other blanks are based on ranks (if not, a majority of them) and making a pregnant cat blank wouldn't make sense to me. 04:55, Fri, Feb, 10, 2012

If this does pass then Nutmeg would need an altered rogue. Just saying. I know I am no longer in the project but just mentioning it.

CBAing
Hi all, I've noticed that SMs are starting to get into the habit of CBAing their own image right after uploading. CBAing your image after twenty-four hours, fine; having another SM CBA your image, okay. However, doing it after uploading? Sorry, but I find that unacceptable, and unfair. While some users of this project have the privilege to CBA and approve images, others don't. It's quite unfair to those who can't CBA their image. It's just a small note to all. 02:32, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Teldy. I've been noticing too. If your image really is good enough to be CBA'd, then some other SM will do it. 02:58, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

As some of you have seen, I CBA'ed Scorchfur's apprentice (which I was doing), when I uploaded it. For that, I am truly, truly, sorry. I've seen it happen before, so I thought it was fine. I think it shouldn't be allowed, as it's rude, and leads newer SMs (such as me) in the wrong path. 03:42, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I saw that as well, and I know what you were thinking. I don't think you realized that it was after 24 hours, am I right? So you figured he was fine and CBA'd him on your own. 03:43, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I always try to only CBA my own charart after at least 24 hours without comments, but to be honest, I'm a bit impatient. 03:44, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

@Oblivion, yes, it was what I was thinking. I'm still new to being a SM, and I'm sure that I'll mess up more in the future. x3 03:55, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

It's my personal opinion that a blanket policy be imposed of simply not calling "Comments Before Approval" on your own images. There's not so few staff that such should be considered appropriate. Impatience is no excuse for gaming the system. 22:03, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

You have a point Kitsu. I do think that we should do this; we've got like twelve senior warriors now, and along with the leader and deputy, that's plenty of staff that you shouldn't have to CBA your own image. 22:06, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Seems fair enough to me. Another thing I want to bring up is, I think we should make it so if an image goes, say, 3 days without maybe we could have them go on automatic CBA? I've seen it happen before where it's gone that long without comments or CBA, and though rare, I still think it's a problem. Maybe with more SWs now we might not have the problem, but I still think it'd be something good to have. 00:24, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

I agree that SM's can't CBA their own image. I also agree with Ivy, that if it's 3 days without a comment, it's automaticly CBA'd. That should apply for all users though. 01:28, Sat, Feb, 4, 2012

Just make it so that X amount of time (3 days, you suggested above) opens things to anyone except the artist can CBA the image. It's not like saying "Comments Before Approval" is too difficult for even a kit in the project, and as the final approval would still need to be handled by a Senior Warrior or higher member of the project there's still the little bit of oversight that's needed. The idea of "Automatic CBA" I don't like. I don't like the idea of an image being approved without a formal final call. That final call is to draw people's attention to the image so that they take a final look and ensure that no errors are going to make it to press. 14:23, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not saying it should be approved without a CBA. When I said automatic CBA, I meant more along the lines of anyone could do it, and it should be done by that time. Anyone, no matter what rank, and even including the artist I think should be able to put it on CBA if it's been sitting for say, 3 days. When I said automatic, it just meant that it should just be put into CBA no matter what by that time. The idea probaly needs some tweaking, but it was just an suggestion. 23:30, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

I think the artist should never be eligible to CBA their own image. Having someone else do it ensures that a second set of eyes can be verified as having looked at and found the image worthy. 02:35, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Kit now that no one can CBA their own image, just to know that other users like the image and are ready to take it to the next step. 07:31, Sun, Feb, 5, 2012

I certainly agree with Kit on SMs not being able to CBA their own images. As for many people, they would be more accepting of their own work, and softer on themselves. Though...honestly, in my opinion, art can't actually be bad, as everyone has a different point of you, and yes, the project need to provide quality art, but art can't be bad or ugly in my opinion, so when CBAing, someone may CBA an image that he/she thinks that it looks good, and another on might think it looks bad. 07:49, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Mentoring Program Revision
Paleclaw and I have been talking about revising the mentoring program because apprentice sit there for weeks without a mentor being assigned or volunteering. We are proposing that apprentices could pick their own mentors from who's available to take an apprentice.

I'll explain the next part in a Role-Play situation. Using Lapwing as a fake name, because all the apprentice a/apprentice b thing confuses me. XP Now, for head of the Mentoring Program. That is a user who'd pay special attention to the Mentoring Program to approve and decline mentor, apprentice match-ups. Paleclaw and I have already asked Cloudskye to be our head for this.
 * Cloudy is available to take and apprentice.
 * Lapwing is looking for a mentor. She uses GIMP (which Cloudy uses as well)
 * Lapwing asks Cloudy to her mentor, either by talk page or we could have a second on the Mentoring Program page with mentors who are free to take an apprentice.
 * Cloudy says okay to taking Lapwing
 * Then the pair'd have to approved by either me, Pale, or heads of the Mentoring Program*.
 * We say yes, and Lapwing is now apprenticed to Cloudy

In the example I gave, Lapwing and Cloudy would be a fine match because Cloudy says yes to an apprentice and they both use a common charart program. But should Lapwing had asked me, the request would be declined because I only can use Photoshop.

Thoughts? Concerns? Ideas for improvement? 00:40, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

I like this idea. Though, a question, if we had a head of the program, would SMs still approve/decline and archive things? 00:48, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Well, in this case. The Mentoring Project head could also archive stuff in Cloudy is a SM. I see no reason why a warrior, if they were made a head of the mentoring program wouldn't be allowed to, but let's cross that bridge when we get to it. 00:52, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

I think Legy could also Co-head the mentoring program with Cloudy. I already asked her if she was willing, and she said yes, so if it's alright with you guys, she'd probably be our second head. And I think Ivy meant would the non-head SM be able to archive stuff still Scarlet. XD And yes Ivy, they can. The heads are just there to the mentor program get specific attention so it doesn't sit there for a month with nothing happening. It's like how Shelly's the head of the news, except in this case, the head wouldn't be the only one to edit it. Am I making any sense? XD 01:15, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with this idea. 07:52, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

I agree too. And Paleh, you make sense to me. =I 08:01, Sun, Feb, 5, 2012

I agree 100%. 22:05, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

This sounds good to me. The mentoring program as it is now is good, but, it's a good idea to have at least two users that are allowed to keep a closer eye on it, that way it's not sitting there. xD 02:11, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

No offence but I think the mentoring program could use some cleaning/archiving now. 07:34, Wed, Feb, 8, 2012

I'm not offended, and I doubt anyone else is. It's true, the page does need cleaning. 07:36, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

I thought not many would be offended, but just saying, in case anyone thinks "OMG, I'm such a n00b for not cleaning that up, now I feel like a loser" or such. 05:43, Thu, Feb, 9, 2012

Echosong Alt
Ok, this is my first argument I've made in Warriors Wiki. I'm curious if Echosong should get a manga alt. She doesn't have a white chest, an extremely different tabby style, her eyes don't look the same shade as she normally has glowing green eyes and on the After the Flood cover it doesn't look like they have a colored glow, and lastly she has a lighter muzzle. As I am doing Mist I will most likely not be able to do Echosong unless Mist is approved. Though there might not be an alt at all. &#123;&#123;SUBST:Nosubst&#124;User:Oakbreeze/Sig}} 17:42, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

Not having a white chest doesn't matter (though having a white muzzle indicates that she does have some white parts, so the point is invalid either way), and why would we expect Mr. Barry to match our tabby style? Also, there's no confirmation that it's her on the cover, and in any case "glowing green eyes" is a tough thing to judge, as that description means something different to everyone. In short, I don't think this warrents an alt. 19:13, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Shelly. Most tabbies in the book are very basic "Garfield tabbies" and unless she was called "such-and-such" type of tabby then shown as another, then that would get an alt I think. But unless we get that confirmation, she will not get one. 03:00, February 7, 2012 (UTC)

Name
Hello all! I'm reporting on behalf of my my apprentice Frogpath, whose name is not under the apprenitce heading. Thanks, 22:35, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

Did Frogpath leave a join request? 19:21, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure. 19:33, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

To-Be Blanks
I noticed that the to-be blanks are rather choppy looking. I propose that we tweak them to smooth the lines out. Should be pretty simple, we don't have many to-be images after all. 01:52, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

Agreeing with Shelly. It shouldn't be that much of a problem. If anything, the lineart around the back area seems to be thicker then the rest of the body. 01:53, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

On the shorthairs, the lineart on the chest is a bit thick too. 01:56, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

And I think on the longhaired the bit of fur sticking up on the top of the tail could be taken off. Really, it's just a small tweak to the linearts. They're perfect in my opinion otherwise. 01:59, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with all of the above. 05:46, Thu, Feb, 9, 2012

I personally think they're fine, but that's just me. I don't think we should go through all the trouble of tweaking a blank that's fine, but if nobody agrees with me, that's fine. 12:36, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

They're choppy and pixelated. We only want to smooth them out. In any case, it's not like it'll be a major project: there are literally only ten images using the blanks. 13:31, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

I suppose so. I still think they look fine, but *shrugs*. 16:09, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

I kinda agree with Paleh. They look fine... 21:56, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think they look fine. The lineart really doesn't look that bad. It isn't really necessary and I don't think a small change like that would make enough difference to be worth it. Breeze whisker  00:35, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but I agree with Paleh on this, Shelly. 00:37, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

yeah, sorry, but I think it isnt really worth it. 00:38, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Just asking if we do tweak the blanks, would we put them on the tweak page or approval page. Seeing as there only are a few cats in that rank, I personally don't think it'd be worth putting them on the approval page. I still think they need to be tweaked. 04:59, Fri, Feb, 10, 2012

Well if we did tweak them, which I still don't think we should, I think they should go on the tweak page. It should be a small enough tweak that you can just layer the lineart over it for the most part. 05:38, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Paleh. I don't think they need to be tweaked. 06:50 Fri Feb 10

Yeah, I like them how they are honestly, I think they're fine how they are. 19:20, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

It is a simple tweak that would be easily applied to the ten existing to-be images. Why shouldn't we do this? They look choppy and out of place in our typically smooth-looking blanks. Seriously, compare this: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120128201443/warriors/images/6/64/FemaleLongToBe.png To this: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070104152030/warriors/images/b/be/Warriorlongf.gif Our blanks should have smooth, consistent looking linart. I'm not asking to change anything in the anatomy, I just want to smooth them out a bit. 17:40, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think there's much of a difference, just that the to-be lineart is a little thicker. The blanks are perfectly fine as they are. 18:34, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Join Request - Applekit
Excuse me may I please join Charart I love art!?

May I please join?? Applekit-

I've added a new heading and an unsigned template. Remember to sign ~ 21:36, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

I would like a kit with redish brown fur with brown eyes girl and a torn ear. Long haired.

PCA is not an area where you can request a charart for non-canon characters. It is a project for creating art for canon pages from the warrior's series. If you want a charart for your profile, either learn how to do it yourself, join PCA and use your learned skills to create your own, or request one from another user who does charart requests. Thank you. 22:14, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Just saying we're redoing the loner chararts so you can find a loner to do. A canon character is is a character such as Firestar, Leafpool and Lionblaze, not a fan-made character like Blueflight, Jaywish, or Brightmoon. <span style="">22:41, Fri, Feb, 10, 2012

Backles....for a bit
"Guess whos back, back again, agian, Shady's back, tell a friend, guess wos back guess whos back, naa" -Eminem

As my opening has proclaimed, I be back~ For a while anyway, can I be made a warrior again? Maple♥ legs  Mischief brewing 23:22, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Welcome back, Maple! 23:28, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

May-pay! Welcome back! <span style="">00:38, Sun, Feb, 12, 2012

Sasha as a kit
Would Sasha get a kit image? See in T&S, first book, page 55, She is shown in a basket, with her *counts* five other siblings, and you can see which she is, she is on <-side, second kit. Maple♥ legs  Mischief brewing 23:58, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

If she was shown as one, I don't see why she wouldn't. 04:30, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. If Sol gets one, so does she. <span style="">00:42, Sun, Feb, 12, 2012

Still here -.-
Still alive guys, and finally seeing the real beauty of actually having a... life. I do not know the state of my computer, but it's really driving me crazy. So don't expect to see much of me for awhile still -.- I'm really sorry I haven't been contributing, it's not really my fault. I'm excited to get back to charart-ing, but I have been seeing life in a new way other than living in my bubble of technology. It's quite nice at least. So, in all. I'll continue to be inactive until my computer is back in my possession. Just an update, I feel I should be close to this project... being a lead in all. It bothers me to leave you guys hanging :\ So... yeah. See you (hopefully) soon :) 04:28, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Bye for now Splashy. =( Hope to see you soon. Come on when you can. <span style="">00:45, Sun, Feb, 12, 2012

Riverclan's Paws
Okay not so sure about this but should some of the Riverclan cats get tweaks for having large paws, because many times Thunderclan cats have said their paws are too big to fit in the cracks of the sunning rocks, I'm not sure they would because it would have to be exaggerated alot and Graystripe and Blackstar didn't get tweaks for having an extra toe, but the Riverclan cats are automatically longhairs (unless mentioned otherwise). Also should Tigerstar get tweaked for having long claws? Thanks, 21:09, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

That's an idea for sure, but I think that it's not necessary to add bigger paws. However, I do think that since Scourge got bigger claws, Tigerstar might be able to get them too. 23:11, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, the Tigerstar suggestion isn't a bad one, Wild. Ivy's right. Scourge got bigger claws, so Tigerstar should as well. But, wouldn't that mean Brambleclaw would get the tweak as well? 23:14, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I suppose Brambleclaw would be tweaked for claws too. 23:47, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. Scourge's claws are permanently affixed to the outside of his paws, but Brambleclaw, Tigerstar, Hawkfrost, etc. simply have long claws, whether sheathed or unsheathed. Their chararts are shown with claws sheathed, so we wouldn't be able to see the fact that their claws are long. They're fine the way they are. 23:55, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, not sure about the claws situation. With the paws situation, I disagree that they should get tweaked, all cats would have different sized paws, and RiverClan might just have bigger paws, not much of a deal. <span style="">00:55, Sun, Feb, 12, 2012

The big paws thing isn't a big enough feature to require all those tweaks, and I personally have never heard it before, so I don't think it's mentioned very much. And for the claws, I agree with Oblivion. Scourge's claws aren't long claws, they're dog's teeth that are stuck on the outside and can't be sheathed. If we gave them claws, then technically we'd have to tweak all chararts to have claws, at least short ones, and that'd just be silly. There's no reason to try and show something on a charart that's usually invisible in my opinion. 03:45, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

Welcoming New Users
You'll see the same thing on PB's talk page as well.

Okay, guys. I've been seeing this a lot recently. Some of you will edit the page when someone posts a join request, welcoming them to the project. Can we try and not do that anymore? It's not really worth the edit, if you ask me, since I usually archive join requests not long after I add them and show 'em the guidelines.

Again, can we stop with the spamming? If you want to welcome a new user or something....go talk to them on the chat...please. It's not really fitting for a project page when it's filled with "welcome!" and things like that.

Comments? 00:35, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

Okay Cloudy. Fair enough. I know I've been doing this a lot recently, and I apologise. <span style="">01:14, Sun, Feb, 12, 2012

It's fine, DJ. But if five users, not counting the SM who adds them in, posts something along the lines of "Welcome to PCA!" things might get a bit cluttered. And I'm not sure how many new users actually check their join requests to see if they've been added. I think we should go with Cloudy's method. Thoughts? 02:23, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

@Cloudskye yeah I thought we weren't supposed to anyway. 16:01, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

Well, no. We're not supposed to. I think this was brought up before, but people seem to have forgotten it. It happens. So much has gone on in this project since then, it doesn't surprise me. 18:52, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

I thought the thing that was brought up before was not to say, "Sure, a SM will add you in" if a Sm hasn't already added them in. <span style="">04:56, Mon, Feb, 13, 2012

I think it may have been just a general "don't spam the talk page with useless welcomes" and things like that. I find no point in actually editing the welcome message after the leads have already added them in. (Also, SM? *dies* xD) 04:59, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Well, this isn't a bad idea. But the thing is, i know of a user (not gonna say the name) that can't get on chat, and if she were to join a project, she couldn't go on there. So, it would also, even though it might count as spam, be good to give them a message on their talk page, that way they will know about it and you don't have to wait for them to come on chat to tell them. 19:28, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with that, as long as you're not just leaving a message that says "hai welcome to PCA" or something along those lines. If you're actually informing a new member about the rules/guidelines/something important, then by all means, go ahead and leave them a message on their talk page. As for those who can't get on the chat, there's nothing I can do about that. 19:34, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Question
Hay guys,

I am having troble makeing a pixel.First of all, how do you open it on a program. And second, how do you do like anything because I want to make a pixel of my self Vixenblaze.

Vixenblaze 13:42, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

@Vixenblaze 1.Start a new heading next time. 2. Have you asked for a mentor they can help you. 3. Look at the tutorial 16:01, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

Join Request
Hey PCA!

My name is Echosong3 and I would really like to become a part of the PCA! I love art and drawing. One of your warriors ,Twilightheart200 (aka, Twi) said I could join.

Please?

Echosong3... Ruler of water!!! 16:18, February 12, 2012 (UTC)Echosong3

Please read the guidelines before putting up an image. If you need help, you can refer to the tutorials or go to the mentor program. 16:20, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

Please state what program you use to make the chararts. Welcome to PCA Woo  patch of green  ❦  16:22, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

Tigerheart, they do not have to put what program they are using unless they want to apply for a mentor. 18:43, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

My name is kittylove1 and I really want to join the PCA please accept my request. P.s. I love drawing. Kittylove1 15:57, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Firestar kit
I know this subject has been broached before and declined based on the fact that Firestar was six moons when he first appeared in Warriors. However, Firestar does dream of his days as a young kit still suckling, obviously younger than six moons. Shouldn't this qualify for a kit charart, since Sasha's getting one for just appearing as one once? 22:21, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

This is exactly my point, Shelly. I agree 100% with you on this. I believe he does qualify for a kit charart. 22:24, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

Yes he does and if he remembers then would Princess get one too for being there? (Unless she has one already) 01:34, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I believe he would get one. It makes sense. 01:47, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

He does qualify to get a kit image, as hes was seen as a kit. 02:57, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

If Sasha gets one for the same basic thing, then yes, so would Firestar. We've given images to characters for less. 03:01, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Princess as well. 03:08, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think Princess would, actually. Honestly, she isn't seen, just... smelled. 03:59, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I agree Firestar should get a kit image. Princess, I disagree, I don't think her name was actually mentioned, therefor we have no proof she was there. <span style="">05:00, Mon, Feb, 13, 2012

Tutorials...
I don't know if I should do this or not So I was looking at the apprentice tutorials for what I call the 'basic' tutorial with eye shading and shading placement ect. I was thinking about, since I use a program that is not on there, if I could explain some things...? I don't know, it seems ridiculous for me to propose this, as yes I am an apprentice *headdesk* but even if a warrior has the same program....I just thought about apprentices like myself who don't really want/have mentors, but still would wanna have torties or tabbies explained in their own comfort zone, y'know? So, I don't know. If you're done with editing the tutorials or what, then just don't think about this. I just thought it would be good for users who use the program I do to not have to ask someone on chat or on talk pages asking if they have that program because they can't figure out how to use it. It's not that different from GIMP or Pixlr, and yeah, I know they could just download one of those two or something.

I just wanted to see if I could help apprentices. =D 11:54, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

More power to ya. It's good to show apprentices the variety of programs they can use. ^^ 14:26, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I agree, it took me forever to learn how to make chararts using photoshop without the tutorials. 14:32, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I've never been a fan of one tutorial, you can't get all the info needed into one thing and people ave different styles so I think users should make tutorials (if they want) the project could vote on it and if they think it is a well made tutorial then it can be accepted or approved. That way the tutorials would be good, easy to use, and alot more helpful. 22:08, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Go for it, Moon. I don't see why not. What better way to learn then from one of your own? 22:11, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Tweaking the queen lineart?
Alright, well I know you guys are probably sick and tired of base changes and tweak ideas and whatnot, but I really think that the queen lineart needs to be tweaked. Upon looking at the positioning of the blank compared to my own cats, I have never once seen them laying to the side with their back legs tucked in. They always have their hind legs sticking out, presumably for comfort and/or for balance. I really think if any of my cats were to lay like that, it would be uncomfortable for them. But that's the only thing I think needs tweaked. I will upload what I think it should look like over my personal image sometime today to guys give you guys a good look. Thanks and have a great day! 16:46, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Is that so? I don't think they need tweaking, personally. Looks perfectly natural to me. Most of their weigth is on their belly, so their back legs are pulled back. 17:18, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Ivy, I don't think they look very natural. And Shelly, you were wanting to tweak the to-bes for less. I don't see why those should be tweaked and this shouldn't. There's a few other problems than just the leg on this. The anatomy's a bit messed up, though not enough for a redo. Just some minor tweaks. 17:24, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I want the to-bes to be tweaked based on choppy lineart, not anatomy. I'm just pointing out that Ivy's argument is flawed insomuch that cats often do pull their legs in. I think the legs on the queens look fine. At least tweaking the to-bes would only mean tweaking ten images. Changing the legs on the queens would mean tweaking 112 images (and counting). Yeah, we embrace work, but this is superfluous and based on the thought that cats often let their legs lay out. I provided my image proof that this is not always the case and that the queens look natural enough. This isn't needed. 17:28, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I personally think that this is a proposed tweak based not on an anatomy problem, and in accordance shouldn't even be considered (at this time). Prehaps later, when the projects work is wrapped it might be in the cards to change it... But to change it because cats suposedidly don't lay that way... The lineart (to me) does not look like a cat who'se in "lounge" mode, but rather a cat in the process of arranging itself, and its belly, to rise to it's feet. 17:33, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Stop it
I have nowhere else to write this. Alright, I want to say this:

' Stop it! '

I thought I was going to be treated normally, but I'm not. It is now like I'm being hated for that "incident", and people are constantly referring to it. And I'm being misunderstood more than usual.

' It isn't fair! '

I don't feel at home here anymore. If you want me to leave, fine. I'm not being angry or cocky anymore, I'm shocked.

This is all absurd. 18:46, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

PCA has it's share of issues right now, Moon. It's not just your fault, believe me. I don't think you're being treated differently on purpose. If anything, it's being done and people don't realize it. For what it's worth, I still value you and I'd like you to stay. =) 19:12, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I don't recall referring to it more than once. But, honestly, you told us you "hope this wiki burns and crashes to the ground, nothing left except the ashes and cinders of it's unequality, and people will learn from this." How exactly did you think we'd take this? That we'd say "Oh, she's just in a mood" and be done with it, pretend it never happened? You stated maliciously that you wanted this wiki gone simply because you recieved a few negative votes on your nomination, and not once have I seen you apologize for that or for insulting Mountainheart (who, by the way, nominated you in the first place). Don't whine at us simply because we chose to be distant from someone who says such things.

No, we don't want you to leave. It was you that threatened to leave, in any case. But you're a good charart maker and if you'd just stop trying to pretend you didn't say what you said and apologized, maybe we'd move on.

I'm sorry I have to be the one to say this, but it has to be said. 19:35, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Moonleaf, I was personally peeved with you before Kitsu gave you a momentary ban because you were being snarky with basically everyone, but I have seen you trying to improve since then. If people are still treating you negatively, we can deal with that. No fighting or mistreatment is supposed to be going on anywhere on this Wiki and should be dealt with accordingly. I don't want to see anyone leave and it always breaks my heart, and it would hurt me if you left because of this. 20:33, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

If I'm trying to improve, it's like forgiveness. I don't need to say I'm sorry for it to be forgiveness. 20:44, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Uh, no. No getting around this one, Moonleaf. You need to apologize to this wiki and to Mountianheart for the things you said. We work hard and take pride in this wiki, and you insulted us. Working hard to pretend it never happened is not "like forgiveness", whatever the heck that means. I don't want you to forgive us, I want you to apologize. 20:48, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I got confused there. But I don't want to be forced to apologize. 23:16, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I shouldn't have to try to coerce you into doing it. You should be able to do it by your own judgement after getting banned for a day for what you said to Mountainheart. If you can't even apologize, then don't expect any sympathy from me. Don't come on here whining about being treated poorly after what you did. I'll treat you like I would anyone that does what you did and couldn't even show the courtesy and maturity of apologizing. 23:47, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Hazeltail and Mousewhisker
Okay, i was reviewing the book Dark River, and on page 176, both Hazeltail and Mousewhisker, Hazelpaw and Mousepaw at the time, were described as, "fluffy gray" and the exact part of the sentence says, "their flurffy gray pelts merging into one." Would they get an alt for that? 23:35, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I believe they would, but Hazeltail already has an alt. 23:37, February 13, 2012 (UTC)