Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Something Fun
For once, Shelly has an idea that can be construed as a way to make the project more fun. Hooray!

This would just be for fun, to add a friendly competition to charart making. Since PC, PB, and PW get to have features on the front page every month, why don't we feature a best charart on the front page of PCA every month? For fairness, it can only be a charart made originally or as a redo.

I think a couple of additional rules would be that a person that has a charart win one month would be unable to get nominated for two months afterward. The senior members would make the nominations and the entire project would vote for their favorite.

Features would go on PCA's main page, right below the project news (I think).

How does this sound? 23:34, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

As I said on the chat, I think this is a very good idea. 23:36, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I re-thought this. I don't agree. What if each month, a charart made by one or two users will be nominated every time? I wouldn't find that so fun. Also...Though it is for fun...I just don't think it's very necessary...Sorry. 23:38, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

That's why I added in the rule that once a person wins they have to wait two months before even being nominated again. Of course, we can extend that length of time. And of course it isn't necessary, nothing about this project is. It'd just be a fun way to encourage users to do their best and improve their skills. 23:51, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm...That would work. 23:54, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds fun! Why not? Maple♥ legs  Mischief brewing 00:00, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Spark stands by what she said on the chat. |3 Good idea, Shelly~ Spark  Love me some chocolate~! ♥ 00:02, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds okay, but I had a couple suggestions. Maybe, instead of art being nominated by a user, the OA would put forth their art for consideration and everyone would vote, kinda like the contest. And, though I think you implied this, one charart per user? Where'd the voting be done? And does the charart have to be started and completed in that month, or just started? 00:36, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think we'd do nominations in a forum like the other projects do. And good idea with the self-nominations. And I think a charart will need to be completed to be put up for nomination. 00:42, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

I knew that the charart would have to be completed. I meant within the month, like could it only be a charart started on April 6th and finished April 24th? Scarlet Derp moment 01:01, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

So this is actual chararts displayed on the wiki (ie. I could nominate Whitestorm's Apprentice), not fanfic chararts. Slap me if I'm wrong. Also, what if I originally did an image, and it was later redone by another user, who would get to nominate it? Does it have to be the current version of the image? I like this idea, it will bring more fun to the project. :) I agree with self-nominations. 02:21, 09, 04, 2012

Ah, Scarlet, I think just finished within the month then. And DJ, yeah, only images that go through PCA. So no non-canon stuff. And I doubt any charart you finish would be redone within the month. 02:41, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Honestly I'm not a huge fan of this idea. It sounds fun and all, but I have a feeling it will cause drama, and that's never good. Nice idea, but it may not work out as nicely as you imagine, so I'm gonna say no, I don't agree. Go ahead, shoot me now. 03:46, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

No one is mad that you disagree, Paleclaw. Everyone is inclined to their own opinion. 03:49, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Paleclaw. It's really easy to hurt others feeling with art and it might cause some resentment. I might be wrong, but from what I've seen with PC, PB, and PW, the articles featured are a collaboration of several different users, with edits from contributors and others on the wiki. A charart is really just made by one person, despite the critiques that are given on the image. It doesn't really show what the wiki can do, just what a person can do. Also users might get bitter if their art isn't featured and some of them might decide to cause drama, and like Paleclaw said, that's never a good thing. Breeze whisker  04:11, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

I agree too. To the warriors, apprentices, and kits, their art may or may not be featured as much as SW+, and that might hurt their feelings. Also, I know who's art would mostly be featured, and even though we'd do the two month rule, we'd still have common winners and it might intimate users about their own skill. I know I am when I look on the approvals and tweaks page, and aside from my few good chararts (Crookedstar, Firestar, Mapleshade), I might feel sure about my skills (this is mostly an example using me, but I might feel a little let down if I only had, let's say, one feature during this whole run, and so would other's). I know you guys who agree only have good intentions, but there could be consequences :/ I hope I explained what I meant right. It sounded better in my head lol  20:17, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe to share around the prize to be featured between the different ranks, we could change the theme each month or every two months. For example, one month might have the theme of "The Most Original Art", and the next month might be "The Neatest Shading" or something. (Someone can think of better names then me). Not sure it will quite work though. 02:49, 10, 04, 2012

DJ, that sounds like a really good idea~ *claps* I think that we could maybe go along with DJ's theme idea, and that way every charart would have a shot at being featured. 23:02, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah! I like DJ's idea because thinking about it, it would probably open up to more of the project members, if that makes sense. 03:06, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

It would encourage progress and I think this would be fun. However, it needs to be coordinated exceptionally well as in, there probably would need to be two-three people responsible for doing all this. It would be no good in having this activity fall apart like with the chats. 02:07, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

I'd be happy to volenteer to help out with this mini-project type. We'd need to organise special guidelines for this though. 00:07, 29, 04, 2012

A Public Apology to *Wildfire* and a Proposal for and Elder Rank
As the heading suggests, I'm here to formally apologize for what I started recently concerning the actions of Wildfire. As many of you know, when Wildfire posted a list of non-contributive users to this talk page, I was the first to decry her actions as over the line and rude. Soon after this, Wildfire was kicked from the project.

We were wrong to do this.

Wildfire, I am so sorry for what I said and what happened. In hindsight, what you did was more than appropriate. You did what the senior warriors should have been doing by checking the contributions of the members of this project and finding those that did not fit our guidelines any more. We should have encouraged you to continue helping with the footwork our senior warriors haven't been doing, and we should not have kicked you from the project.

As such, project bannings should not be considered an option for punishment anymore. They are not enforceable as project membership is not required for project participation.

And furthermore, I'd like to propose yet another rank. One that other projects already use. That'd be the elder rank.

The purpose of the elder rank is simple. When someone starts to become less than contributive, they are added to this rank to remind them to contribute and to remind senior warriors to keep an eye on them. If they're in the rank too long, they're removed from the project.

I think that this would help a bit.

And, again, I sincerely apologize to Wildfire for my own rash actions that led to the rash actions of others. I hope you don't think less of me for it. 20:54, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry as well, Wild. There isn't much I can say that's already been said. I kicked myself (not literally) for booting you from the project, and afterwards, I felt terrible for days.

I feel partially responsible for this, as it was my choice to kick you from the project. I thought it was the right thing to do at the time, and I now realize that it wasn't. I wasn't thinking with my head, and now I realize the error of my ways.

Again, I'm sorry, Wild. We're glad to have you back in PCA, and I swear to StarClan this'll never happen again.

Thank you for doing this, it means alot, but you didn't have to, you believed what you were doing was for the good for the project and I can't blame you for that. You gave me a chance to think about my words and the effects of them, and I needed to do that. Thank you Shelly and Cloudy for doing this though, it really does mean alot. 21:47, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

About the Elder proposal... I think it's an excellent idea. Maybe, when they are added to the rank, a lead can leave the a message to let them know. 16:21, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of the elder rank too. 07:44, 20, 04, 2012

Okay, here are my biases with the elder rank. The elder rank is meant to list people who are inactive reminding them to contribute to the project, however most users who fall inactive don't come back. It's upon a user's own free will to join a project and it's the users responsibility to contribute to the project. Should they not attend to this responsibility, they face the consequences. It shouldn't be the project's responsibility to keep track of the level of activeness from multiple users. I feel that with the Elder's rank, that would make the project, especially senior members, responsible for keeping track of multiple user's activeness. 02:03, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Blueish-gray cats vs. Gray cats
It kinda hurts me to bring this up, but this is a blue cat and this is a gray cat.

We've had this discussion before and Bluestar and all related blue-gray family members were redone so that they were more realistic  14:14, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

The first one doesn't even look like it's blue, honestly.....

Well, the only blueish ca that I really know of is a Russian Blue.. How about this one? 14:35, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

For the record: When talking about animals that are not birds or fish, the word "Blue" refers to gray coloration. Even the russian blue mentioned above is just a shade of gray. 14:42, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I had to hang up early. @ Kitsufox, I know that. @ Ivy Bluestar got alts for being called gray, but since they are basically the same, I don't know if she should. @ Cloudskye, that's my whole point. @ Misty, there are others, like the Nebalung, Korat, and Chartreux, and British shorthairs usually are blue as well. 16:26, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

The current ones are much closer to blue-grey than the old ones were. The blue coloring in those really only shows up when the light is just right, otherwise those cats just look grey. Breeze whisker  03:34, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

I kinda agree. If we're going to be counting gold and ginger as the same thing, Bluestar really shouldn't have alts for being gray. She is gray, in the right light. 16:04, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. I tried to object to when we started giving them plain gray alts, but nobody agreed so I gave up. :P 22:51, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

This is sort of like the gray-light gray alt one shade to the next, they are basically the same thing. So I agree we shouldn't give her the alts. 01:18, 22, 04, 2012

I say that the regular gray alts should go. However, I believe she has one or two alts that I think should stay. I know for a fact her light leader alt that I made should stay because she was mentioned with pale fur, which contradicts her description, and I believe the one where she has a solid stripe on her head would stay too (should double check to make sure)  15:39, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, by the new alt guidelines, being described as light would only be a single shade shift since she isn't described as dark, and wouldn't qualify for an alt. 02:07, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

So she and Mistystar shouldn't have pale gray or dark gray alts. (coughs) And yet people are still making them right now. 15:06, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

And your point? If they're making them, decline them and tell them that it's too close to the original shade. Simple as that.

No. Every time I do something without deferring to the project first, I get accused of working based on my opinion alone and I'm tired of it. So, on this matter, I am attempting to get this matter closed now. Now, can we all agree that blue-gray and gray are basically the same colour as gold and ginger are? And, if so, can we delete Mistystar and Bluestar's light gray or dark gray alts, since they are only a single shade away from their current images? 20:10, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

I don't support it, not do I go against it. However, if that's what the project wants, that's what the project wants. I don't mind either way. Comments, everyone?

I support it. 20:40, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

I don't agree. We should get rid of the gray alts, yes, that's a partial description. But pale gray and dark gray would be more than one shade. They should stay. Pale gray and blue-grey are not the same thing, and it's a big enough difference they should get an alt. Blue-gray is a shade of gray, not the same as plain gray. Going from blue-gray to light or dark grey would be two shades. They should get alts. Just get rid of the plain gray ones. 21:55, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

That's an excellent point, Paleh. I agree with that 100%. 22:06, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree as well. 100% :) 22:08, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Paleh too. Just simply get rid of the plain gray alts. 22:11, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Except, depending on the light, Bluestar can be any shade of gray. In fact, she's only even blue-gray in perfect lighting. In any other light, she'd look just gray, and so I believe we should treat gray and blue-gray as synonyms, but like we treat ginger and golden as synonyms (though, honestly, I don't remember agreeing to that). 01:10, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Uhg. You know what? I'm taking Ivy's stance. You guys do what you want. 01:11, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

We are treating blue-gray and gray as synonyms, but we're treating light or dark gray as something different. As we should. If say, Brackenfur, were described as pale ginger, I do believe he'd get and alt. I don't think we ever agreed ginger and golden were synonyms so much as they're too similar for an alt, as it's golden's just a shade of ginger. Just as blue-gray's a shade of gray. But light or dark gray is a completely different shade, even if it came from the same color. Like plae ginger and golden. 01:42, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

I'm agreeing with Paleh on this, giving it a second thought. Comparing the alts, blue-gray and light-gray are very different, but the plain gray alts should stay. 02:09, 28, 04, 2012

I think that blue-gray and gray are the same thing, but I also think dark-gray is pretty much the same too. Light-gray is completely different though. ChanCharm 07:01, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Tweak Page Limit
Since the number of users having the ability to tweak/redo images is rising, I think the limit should rise as well, since the project's goal is to create "high quality images" might as well, let them keep flowing. Maybe raise it to 35-40? Any comments? Concerns? 02:54, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Mmm... 30-35 sounds okay to me. :3 04:39, 30, 04, 2012

Hmm, I'd say yes, but... there hasn't really been a problem with the tweak page filling up so far. It's full once in a while, yeah, but it's never been a problem. It might be later, and I'd see the good in expanding the tweak page at that time. But if it comes to a vote, yeah, I'd probably vote to expand the page now. Just putting forth my own hesitant thoughts. 04:46, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, 35 on both sounds good. 04:45 Mon Apr 30

Since the number of tweaks have been piling up. It would be a good way to help get them done. 04:48 Mon Apr 30

I have no qualms with it. Certainly fine by me. In fact, why don't we just make the page limits for both the approval page and tweak page the same, that way we only have to remember one number?

That would be a good idea... It's not too much or too little, so 35 for both of them sounds good in my opinion. 99.111.192.240 19:20, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that was me. >.<  19:21, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, making the same number on both pages would be much easier, and 35 would be right. 05:57, 01, 05, 2012

If we're all in agreement, then I'll go and change the limit. 00:25, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don't think that that the current limit is much of a problem. It's not even full always. I don't agree, sorry. Also, I think that the approval page could be changed back to the original limit, as we're done for now with redoing any blanks, and plus the raised limit was for the apprentices. 00:38, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Now, giving it a second thought, the tweak page isn't always even near full. I think it's fine for now, and I agree with Stoney. The approval page however should go back to it's normal limit. If it's number should change, I'd say 30. 05:40, 05, 05, 2012

Just curious
Will Leafstar's image stay as a queen since she still has kits, or be a leader since she's still doing leader duties? *w* Skt Knock knock 03:38, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

I'd really like it to go back to being leader... For personal reasons of loving the leader image, and because she seems to be a leader first and foremost, and has stuck to her leader duties as well as nursing her kits. So yeah, I'm in favor of switching it to leader. 04:48, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Shelly. I'm up for changing it.

I also am agreeing with Shelly. 21:36, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the above-- 22:14, April 30, 2012 (UTC)Moonshine

The thing is, she's still both a queen and a leader. Both images have every right to be her main image since she is equally both. 22:16, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Well...her kits can't stay kits forever. Eventually, they'll grow up. But...-edges away- My opinion, anyway. 08:05, 05 01, 2012

There's a coding thingie on another wiki that I visit that's kinda like the tab code but in the user box (Like [|this]. We could do that, so her main charart can swap between queen and leader. 02:24, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

That could be incredibly cool. Let's do that. :3 02:27, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Oh! We could also use it for the daylight warriors! Can Shelly please make the template? 8D 02:33, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Better you than me (Scar fails at coding xD) Fire away! 02:35, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

sounds like a great idea! And it'd definitely work for the daylight warriors. It's amazing what you can find from looking on other wikis. :P 16:37, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Alright guys, just an update. Kit, Atelda, and I worked together and the switch template is currently set up here. However, the charcat template still needs to be tweaked to compensate for this template, so it can't be used until that's done. 22:42, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

That looks great! I think this should be left up to another project though, since it isn't really our job to make templates... o3o

A New Task For Senior Warriors (and anyone that wants to help out)
Hey all!

So, the tweak nomination limit vote has ended, and by unanimous vote, it passed.

What this means is that, now, tweak nominations are closed (those currently up right now can remain as they've been grandfathered into the system). And they will remain closed until enough redos and tweaks are completed that there are only 40 images on that list.

From here on, if the number of images on the list excedes 50, tweak nominations close and anyone looking to do an image needs to pick one from the list.

Also, I've counted up the current number of images on the list and placed a helpful red number above it. There are currently 69 images on that list. From here on, if an image is added to or removed from the list, that number needs to be updated. This'll be easier than having senior warriors check in every day to count the images over and over. ;)

So, yeah. That's that. I'm glad we had a vote we all agreed on! 02:23, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Can we number the list? (it'd help my pool ol' eyes xP) 02:30, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

That'd work, except the list is in two parts... 02:35, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

* laughs at current number* doing the number might e better than doing the bullets IMO. And it doesn't really matter that they are in two parts (unless you have bad math skills) 02:38 Wed May 2

Mmkay, I'm up for the job. And yeah, if really needed you can always use a calculator. OwO  06:25, 02, 05, 2012

Molepaw and possibly others
Since we never really got to a conclusion on the tweak nomination vote, I'm just going to go ahead and post it here. The main problems discussed were the shade of brown and the cream colour on him. I personally think the brown could be fixed to a more "browner" color and the cream on the apprentice could be more "creamier" to match the kit, Opinions? 11:18, 04, 05, 2012

I agree. That brown is borderline ginger and the cream looks like off-white. 16:46, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

DF Cats
That discussion was archived for some reason... So should the DF cats (Snowtuft, Sparrowfeather, Shredtail, etc.) get warrior images? 16:47, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Continue the discussion here. There's no need to start //another// page and a half long discussion.

That's not been commented on in a week. Besides, we were so close to figuring something out when the other discussion was archived... -trudges off to discuss on said page- 16:51, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

It was archived because I believe I said to continue the discussion there. There's no need to have two separate topics on the same thing.

Join request
May I join PCA? Thanks, Hollyleaf123456789 17:34, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

I'll add you in right now. Please check out the guidelines, apprentice tutorials, or mentor program if needed~ Welcome~ 17:44, May 5, 2012 (UTC)