Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Some Characters Descriptions
I was just reading Tigerclaw's Fury when I noticed Runningwind, Thornclaw and Mousefur are called light brown. That seems fine, it's just a partial right? So why doesn't it count for Mousefur and Thornclaw? There is such a thing as light dusky brown and light golden-brown.

I stumbled over Brackenfur's page while looking, and the trivia is just as confusing. I understand the gingers but brown and golden? That could be just a partial. There is also the same situation for light brown too.

I think the light brown counts for Mousefur, Thornclaw and Brackenfur, it's just a partial, and I think Brackenfur's trivia needs to be cleaned up. Unless his specific called pure gold or pure brown, than that's not necessary. I'll track down the references later and double check. I just wanted to check with everyone if this is alright. -- 07:38, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

Um... I think this is a PCA discussion? ~ Burntclaw  Yolo ♫ ♪ 07:40, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think so. I'm talking about their written description and trivias, nothing about their pictures. That comes later. -- 07:45, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

I think light brown counts as an alternate for Brackenfur, tbh. ~ Burntclaw  Yolo ♫ ♪ 07:48, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

Why? Just trying to understand is all. Brown is part of his description and we usually count it as a partial. It's like adding to Lionblaze's trivia that he is mistakenly called golden, when it is part of his description. -- 07:56, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

But light brown isn't golden brown. Dusky brown is very different to light brown. =/ ~ Burntclaw  Yolo ♫ ♪ 07:58, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

Light brown isn't golden brown. ~ Foxy Don't eat my food 07:58, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

Light brown and golden brown aren't the same, and I looked up dusky brown and you'd basically be saying 'light dark brown'.

I see about the dusky brown part. I just looked it up.-- 08:06, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

I don't know much about pelt color, so I'm gonna leave that for you guys, but just to clarify, this would come to PC, PCA only handles the art, we handle the descriptions. 20:54, February 7, 2015 (UTC)

-- 00:38, February 22, 2015 (UTC)

Magpie and Mist
Hi, been awhile. I've noticed that they are listed as kittypets because they were taken by Twolegs. Tell me, how does that make them kittypets? Cloudtail, Brightheart, and Leafpool were taken by Twolegs, but they obviously were never kittypets. They were locked in cages. All we know is that Mitzi and Mist were taken and now live on another farm, which is hardly evidence. After all, Barley and Ravenpaw live on a farm, but again, not kittypets. 20:43 Mon Feb 2 2015

It's Magpie, not Mitzi. =P I asked Beebs before I added it, since she thought it was clear enough. If anything, it was because they were taken by the Twolegs??? idk, I saw a cite and went with it? I could have made a mistake and misinterpreted the cite when I brought it to her? Given that it says they were taken by Twolegs, I kinda went with the fact that they were actually taken to live elsewhere- Cloudtail, Brightheart, and Leafpool weren't actually taken to live anywhere.

Mitzi is the mom whoops. But still, its an assumption to say that they were then made kittypets, as we have no proof that they are cared for by Twolegs, or consider themselves kittypets. 20:57 Mon Feb 2 2015

It only says they were taken away by Twolegs and possibly living on another farm, that would more or so make them loners rather than kittypets. -- 22:02, February 2, 2015 (UTC)

We don't have proof that the two legs kept them as kittypets. Anything could've happened to them then when the two legs took them away. ~ Foxy Don't eat my food 00:20, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

 13:02, February 13, 2015 (UTC)

Unless they're called kittypets explicitly. Don't give them the rank. 02:28, February 17, 2015 (UTC)

Agreeing with Duck.-- 00:38, February 22, 2015 (UTC)

Dark Forest
This discussion is being moved here since we are discussing about whether the Dark Forest is an organized group or a bunch or rogues on PCA. I found a cite that might help.-- 21:12, February 13, 2015 (UTC)

imo they're just a bunch of rogues like BloodClan, since we're going to use Spottedleaf as a valid source of information now 19:09, February 14, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Beebs here, they were never really "organized," sure they had a leader, but they actually didn't. If memory serves, they had kinda senior members (ie Tigerstar, Brokenstar, Thistleclaw, Mapleshade, etc) and then the "lower" members (ie Antpelt, Snowtuft, etc), and then trainees (ie Ivypool, Blossomfall, Birchfall, Mousewhisker, Breezepelt, etc). They were never really a "Clan" per say, just different seniority levels of a community. 02:40, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

Wait, I have an idea. Let's try to see it at a different angle. <>

We are trying to compare them and decide if they are a Clan or a bunch of rogues, but if you think about it, they are neither. They are the opposite of StarClan, so not a Clan, but aren't just a bunch of rogues because their dead. I think we need to see them as something different, not a clan, not a bunch of rogues, but something different. Cause that's what they are. -- 05:07, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

But they are rogues based on our current definition of rogues; " hostile, usually aggressive [...] cats who do not belong to a Clan [...]." And they also follow the "general" rule through most of the series for rogues; "cats who have chosen to live by themselves [...] and scorn the Clan cats for their beliefs." They technically are rogues, but most definitely aren't a Clan, which is defined as "a highly structured society that is firmly divided," in the Warriors universe. They are not highly structured,and aren't firmly divided, either, they are simple roaming an afterlife with a frailly structured society, if you can even call it that, remember until Omen of the Stars none of the cats even met each other, they all roamed alone. I think that the Dark Forest cats should simply stay as rogues, because that's exactly what they are. 14:39, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

Actually, Crookedstar's Promise shows otherwise, as Mapleshade brings Crookedstar to Silverhawk (or Shredtail?) who is training Thistleclaw, so theirs an inconsistency. Same with Power of Three, Hawkfrost is always with Tigerstar. Can everyone please read this. I worked hard on it. -- 21:45, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

Furthermore, using Leafstar as an example, she was actually a rogue in Firestar's quest, but still got a Kittypet and loner rank for being called one. The DF Warriors were called DF Warriors God knows how many times, imo they really should get the rank. Spottedleaf's one opinion on them really doesn't outweigh all the times they were called DF cats by the narration and the other StarClan cats likewise. If a rank was based on how they act, then basically the Sun drown place cats should all get loner ranks, and Willowbreeze should get a kittypet rank. 01:59, February 16, 2015 (UTC)

The cite you showed really says that they're rogues so. although they have been called warriors numerous times, word of god says otherwise 02:03 Mon Feb 16

But also, remember a being a "Clan cat" isn't just about ranks. A Clan was a group of cats who followed the warrior code, which is another reason they weren't a clan, imho. 04:37, February 16, 2015 (UTC)

This is just tiring... maybe we can have a vote on this? please? -- 04:41, February 16, 2015 (UTC)

Wait a few more days, everybody needs to have an equal chance of discussing this before a CBV period or vote is considered. 04:43, February 16, 2015 (UTC)

StarClan cats - even those who weren't warriors - are called 'StarClan warriors' sometimes, so if we went with Burnt's logic, then they'd all get warrior images, no? 04:44, February 16, 2015 (UTC)

That wasn't my logic, though. The warrior blanks are for clan warriors. The DF warriors aren't Clan cats, they are Dark forest cats. 04:49, February 16, 2015 (UTC)

I guess the question is: What is Dark Forest cats? I think they are not rogues, but not a Clan. Something new and different, like Tribe of Endless Hunting for example, but a group that's for sure. I don't think they're rogues, because their dead spirits like StarClan, but just plain evil.-- 05:20, February 16, 2015 (UTC)

I'm just going to make the leap and say they were a temporary alliance. So the question would more of be whether we honor temporary alliances as their own groups. From my perspective, I would say that we don't honor temporary alliances and, agreeing with Duck, the Dark Forest cats are essentially dead rogues. 20:45, February 17, 2015 (UTC)

Agreeing with Duck as well. They're dead rogues, basically. They usually stay apart, like rogues, and certainly act like them....the only difference between them and, say, Willie's group from Ravenpaw's Path..is that the Dark Forest cats are dead. The only reason they even united is because Tigerstar was a jealous kitty who couldn't let dead things die.

I actually found something. Just a prompt, but Jayfeather thought but he's not a rogue or a loner. When he smelled Brokenstar so... 12:07, March 6, 2015 (UTC)

You might want to give more context as well as a page number and book to add credibility to that quote. When and where did Jayfeather smell Brokenstar? Is the ambiguity referring just to Brokenstar or to all of the Dark Forest? Simultaneously though, the Dark Forest cats have been named multiple ranks. 01:38, March 9, 2015 (UTC)

Cats of the Park
Should we consider them loners or their own separate group like a Clan? They've been seen to be very structured, with a mentor system and rituals like that of a Tribe or Clan, but at the same time we also know little about them and they don't seem aggressive, like a group of loners. Thoughts? 21:09 Mon Feb 16 2015

Again, I'd rather wait until the end of Dawn of the Clans arc, but I think we could treat them like the Ancient Tribe and Ancients. They are, after all, an ancient group.-- 21:30, February 16, 2015 (UTC)

Why would we need to wait? We do have information on them now, about as much as we did on The Ancients after Long Shadows. 22:00 Mon Feb 16 2015

I think they're an organized group of loners, kinda like BloodClan, except in loner form. They are a separate group, but they're still loners, at least in my eyes from what we have now. 02:10, February 17, 2015 (UTC)

Well, given that they have a lot more of a structure than BloodClan, or even the Ancients, honestly.. they should be considered their own separate group. Hell, they even have the whole "mentor and apprentice" system- you can hardly say that for the Ancients, yet they get their own blanks, ranking, ect.

One reason I want to wait because the ranking system is similar to Clans (elders, mentors, apprentices, etc) River Ripple may base some Clan aspects on this group, and reveal more. So if we make a decision right now, I say I'm going with SnowedLightning.^-- 23:20, February 21, 2015 (UTC)

I doubt they'd appear again, tbh. Their home is destroyed and all that. 04:11, February 22, 2015 (UTC)

Can we get some comments on this? 00:15, March 10, 2015 (UTC)

I think they get ranks, they're more organised than the Ancients, and have important ranks like elder and etc. 06:32, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

Longtail
I'm pretty sure everyone's getting tired of this, but the amazing and awesome Jayie has directed me towards some information that could be really useful. We all know the issue surrounding Longtail and his pelt color.. it's often argued whether or not it's silver or brown. Both pelt colors have cites for Rising Storm, with the silver cite coming about 50 pages prior to the brown cite. However, Kate, the author of Rising Storm, says this when asked about Longtail's pelt coloring:


 * I always imagine tabbies as brown; I suspect Cherith imagines them as silver; which is why we see "tabby" in the storyline, we each pick out "normal" tabby. So, according to me, he is brown.

Given that Kate also wrote the book where Longtail is introduced, Into the Wild, and she also wrote the book where both the brown and silver descriptions are, wouldn't Kate's word put the description for Longtail as brown, not silver? Technically, we have two strikes for brown, and one for silver, because we've used an author's word for descriptions before.

I think that since we have more cites for Longtail being brown than we do for him being silver, we should probably go with the brown. But that's just me. Jayie Unwritten words~ 19:45, February 21, 2015 (UTC)

I think the authors are divided on this. I think if the books specifically calls him 'brown' (not just a tabby) more than silver, than go for it.-- 21:28, February 21, 2015 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the actual books after the Original Arc still call him silver more often, though. 23:51, February 21, 2015 (UTC)

duck you're gonna need more cites for that, though 23:57, February 21, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, please bring some cites for that, Duck. Because I've only ever seen him called silver once, and that's in Rising Storm...

Just to say, but in the manga thingy behind Bluestar's prophecy, he was shown as pale. But if he was meant to be a brown tabby then I'd say just change his description. 04:32, February 22, 2015 (UTC)

They're graphic novels, and regardless, we can't tell what color he is, since it's grayscale. Those aren't used to back up/contradict a description, unless they're like Lionblaze or Lionheart, both of whom are cited tabbies and are shown without those stripes.

Can I get comments on this? Duck hasn't brought cites yet to support him being called silver more, so I count 2-1 in favor of brown, honestly.

I looked at both cites for brown and silver, something to note. Both are in Rising Storm:

…Next to Longtail’s silver tabby back. Pg. 268

“Longtail,” he meowed, pausing briefly beside the brown warrior. P.g. 306.

I have an idea actually, what if we put him as both silver and brown? Or even silver-brown. Sorta like this. 07:38, March 10, 2015 (UTC)

or you can use the switch brackenfur has and be done with it. 11:13, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

I think he should be brown if Kate confirmed it and he has a cite, but a switch should do for the art. 00:10, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it's confirmed to be Longtail or not, but the cover of the old Rising Storm shows a brown cat with a nicked ear, and a family member of mine suspects it's Longtail, since Longtail received that nicked ear back in Into the Wild. 21:39, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

The Captain ~ Silver Nomination
About time it gets a silver vote. Comments? 21:25, March 6, 2015 (UTC)

CBA? 06:02, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

Ah, sorry, but could you eliminate some quotes about the Captain that doesn't truly show anything about his character? 17:21, March 15, 2015 (UTC)

Done. CBA? 21:57, March 15, 2015 (UTC)

Vote's up! 21:39, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Willowbreeze - kittypet
I think Willowbreeze needs a kittypet rank. It was clear that she lived the life of a kittypet for sometime. If Tallstar got a kittypet rank for staying with the twolegs for a little time, she should too. *shrugs* 09:48, March 8, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with you, but let's see what others think. 23:05, March 8, 2015 (UTC)

I think both of them shouldn't be kittypets, I mean, none of them were really kittypets, they were just prisoners and Tallstar only ever got into the house because he needed medical attention. 00:44, March 9, 2015 (UTC)

Tallstar stayed inside the house for a fairly decent period of time, accepted their help, and basically lived there with Jake for a bit. If we gave Jake a loner/rogue image for living the life of a loner and rogue, then what makes Tallstar any different?

I disagree. Willowbreeze did not willingly stay with Twolegs. Qualify how long she "lived the life of a kittypet", because from my understanding, it was maybe a day if not less. 02:06, March 9, 2015 (UTC)

Tallstar did not willingly stay with the twolegs either, the twolegs only ever captured him to cure his bellyache, if he gets his kittypet rank, then Willowbreeze should, since the twoleg's intention there was clearly to capture her and keep her as their house cat. However, I don't think any of them should get their ranks, because they were never kittypets. 02:54, March 9, 2015 (UTC)

Graystripe nevet stayed willingly. He got the KP image because of how long he stayed, I think.

Graystripe was considered their house cat, and he lived the life as a kittypet and was considered one. Tallstar didn't, all he did was to recieve care from a Twoleg and sleep in a kittypet bed, for the whole time, he wanted to escape, and wasn't really considered a kittypet by anyone. It's basically repeating Willowbreeze, she was captured, and lived the life of a kittypet too for a short while. If Tallstar gets his rank, then she should, because the situation she was in fits Tallstar's situation perfectly. I don't think either should get their ranks, because they were never actually kittypets. 03:53, March 9, 2015 (UTC)

do we even know the twolegs intended to make her a kittypet? all they did was put her in a cage. they werent even in a house or anything, and they could have intended to euthanise her for all we know. i cant speak for tllstar because i never read his SE, but for willowbreeze i dont think she should get one.

If Willowbreeze gets one for Twolegs capturing her/caring for her briefly, then Leafpool, Brightheart, Owl Eyes, Pebble Heart, and Sparrow Fur would get them as well, but they were never official kittypets and so should not receive a kittypet rank. 20:32 Mon Mar 9 2015

Official or unofficial, they're treated as kittypets, I think they get it. 06:32, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

how on earth is being stuffed into a cage being treated as a kittypet? 06:37, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

Exactly. Neither Tall or Willow should get it, imho. 07:45, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

Hmm... If she doesn't get this rank, I think Tall shouldn't have either, tbh. I agree with burnt. 10:29, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I doubt she'd be considered a kittypet. Like Skt said- stuffed into a cage isn't being a kittypet. Also, she didn't stay there for very long. Idk about Tall, however. 15:27, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

Tallstar got it, I believe, because he fits the qualifications for a kittypet- it's not that he is one, it's because he fit it. I think there's a list somewhere (not sure where it is off the top of my head) that determines this.. I'll see if I can find it.

Well then basically Willow should get it- she was living as one too. She ate kittypet food and played with their house folk. I'm sorry, but I still don't think Tall should get it, just because he slept in a kittypet bed one night and got stuck in the house because they wanted to treat his bellyache doesn't mean he should get the rank. 00:07, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

Being held captive isn't the same thing as being kittypet, though? She was forced to do those things, and unlike Graystripe, wasn't there for an extended period of time.

Okay, I just checked CP...and she was with them for maybe a day, if that. Sorry, but I really don't think that's long enough to be considered a kittypet.

If Tall gets it, she should, imo. Tall was forced to do those things too, and he still got it. Regardless, I still think none of them should get it. They were never kittypets. 00:33, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

Darrel ~ Silver Nomination
I'm noticing Twoleg pages are being a little bit neglected, so I'll be focusing on those. Comments? 06:32, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

Could you clarify the article? When reading through it, it can get confusing and there are a few grammatical errors. 17:24, March 15, 2015 (UTC)

Done. 22:02, March 15, 2015 (UTC)

CBA? 05:40, March 19, 2015 (UTC)

Vote's up! 21:39, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Ken ~ Silver Nomination
About time it gets a silver nomination. Comments? 06:32, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

CBA? 21:57, March 15, 2015 (UTC)

Vote's up! 21:39, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Spoiler Tag
I am glad that the spoiler tag has been moved up for Brightheart and Briarlight at least. I'm just noticing that a lot of main quotes, not just the these two cats, give big spoilers. Most of the time, even the name of the character is a very good spoiler. I think the spoiler tag needs to be moved up to above the main quote. 08:12, March 13, 2015 (UTC)

Mmhmm, I say move it. I'm totally up for it and would gladly help with that. Some of these quotes are really iffy and there's no point in changing the quotes tbh- they're main ones for a reason.

Schmeh, radical idea here, not really, but do we still need the spoiler tags? 17:26, March 15, 2015 (UTC)

Definitely! Spoiler tags warn that this will contain spoilers. At least the history points out which spoilers it has. 21:02, March 15, 2015 (UTC)

Sun Shadow - Silver Nomination
I love Sun Shadow. David worked on a bit of it too, and I totally forgot about it for a while... I can't wait until we see more of him and Quiet Rain.

Join
I really don't know if this is the place where I do this but can I join '-' There is really nothing to do on my computer and I love editing on this wiki :P 22:14, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

I'll add you. Welcome to Project Characters! Make sure to read the Guidelines and FAQ. Welcome! 22:50, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Birchface - Silver Nomination
He's dead and only mentioned but there's so much about him holy crud. Not gonna really be happy if I have to remove quotes, as they're kinda plot-vital and important and stuff. I also really don't remember how to do those family trees so if someone could do that for me???? I'll break it otherwise. x.x

I'll get to work on the family trees. 21:36, March 24, 2015 (UTC)

Splashfoot ~ Silver Nomination
Ok there's nothing much about him but I'm too sleepy to type lengthy stuff. Comments? 13:25, March 24, 2015 (UTC)

The sentences seem a bit... idk, overly simple? I'm kinda tired too from working, so if you'd like me to elaborate, I could probably do that later. x.x

Deerdapple - Silver Nomination
That's all there is for her. I figure the quote's somewhat important to her character so I added it.

Myler ~ Silvr Nomination
Let's try this. Comments? I'll expand it a little bit more soon. I know I forgot the quote, my bad. I'll add that later. 13:51, March 24, 2015 (UTC)

Descriptions alongside toggles
ok this has been bugging me for a while now, but since we use toggles for characters like brackenfur and mapleshade, I don't get why we don't list the secondary description alongside it? it's not that hard to have the second description below the normal one just saying 'brackenfur is also frequently described as a ginger tom'. it saves the confusion of having to bloody look everywhere for the reason for the toggle, too. 15:04, March 24, 2015 (UTC)

It would make loads of sense, especially in Mapleshade's case- she's called ginger-and-white and a tortie multiple times; Mapleshade's Vengeance has her as ginger-and-white. Might prove useful to add the alternate descriptions.