Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Senior warriors and citing ranks
Wow I completely forgot to bring this up. xD Anyways, so I was discussing with Teldy about this a bit, and she said to bring up an actual discussion about it. I was editing a bit the other day and noticed a couple of characters who were in the senior warrior category, though I have no memory of them ever being mentioned. As it's a category, I can't add a cite tag to it, and even if I could, nobody could cite it to prove they are one. So I was thinking perhaps we could list them in the charcats like any other rank, and cite where it specifically says they're a senior warrior. But then we also couldn't cite those and not the other ranks, as it'd be inconsistent. So maybe we should just cite all ranks in the charcat? It'd be helpful with more than just the senior warriors too, for instance, characters like Pad, who's in the manga only which I know a lot of people have never read, is listed as a Loner, Kittypet, and Kit. However he's only a kit, and he was only in one book. So how do we know it's real unless you can read the book yourself? Am I rambling?

Anyways, so what do you guys think? Should we add the Senior Warrior rank to the charcat, and/or cite ranks? 08:54, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

I think it might be hard to cite where a character is mentioned as a SW, but it wouldn't be impossible to find. I'm not against the idea. 15:44, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

I also think it'd be a good idea to cite the other ranks (like kit, elder, etc.). 15:50, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it would be hard to find the cites, but in a way, that's kinda the point. So few SWs are mentioned in the series, and yet there's so many in the category. If it's hard to cite, a lot may be taken out due to lack of cite, which is the point. 00:45, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

That's true. I agree with this idea. 13:11, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

I agree, Paleh. I don't remember some of the cats in that category being called SWs... 01:15, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I agree we should cite the ranks. However, I don't know about adding the SW. In fact, I might put up an AfD for that category just because it will always remain incomplete. We basically know all of the SWs in ThunderClan since that's where the point of view is coming from. But we have not the faintest clue who's SW in the other Clans. I mean, yes, there's the ones who are older cats than some of the newer ones, but we still don't know for sure if they are SWs. Then there are the middle group where they've been alive a couple of books, yet they're not as old as others, and we really don't know. 01:20, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Hmmmm true, it won't ever be complete, but then most categories won't ever be "complete". We probably won't know every Windclan cat for instance, or every Tribe of Endless Hunting cat. But you're right, the only ones we really know are ThunderClan. I'm not sure it's really needed. I'd support and AfD, but not necessarily cause it won't ever be "complete". 21:42, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

This sounds like a good idea. I have an idea for citing a character being described as a senior warrior. If one cat is newly mentioned as one, cats that are of similar age can have that used as their citation as well. That would make sense, since I'd think age pretty much qualifies a cat for a senior warrior rank. Oh, and yeah, I'm trying to be helpful to other projects now, so hi! :) 21:55, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Ohai Ivy! 8D But it's not always about age. Usually, but not always, so it'd be assuming if we cited a cat as a senior warrior cause a cat a similar age is one. For instance, Thistleclaw and Tigerclaw established themselves as senior warriors fairly young, before Bluestar even, who was older than them. 23:42, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

I would cite the ranks, however, I still am against having senior warriors being added. While "being incomplete" is definitively not a legal reason to delete a category or disregard the rank, it's still pretty biased. I mean, we'd have most all of ThunderClan as senior warriors and maybe some RiverClan due to Crookedstar's Promise, but otherwise it'd seem we would be favoring ThunderClan. Plus, as Paleclaw said, age is a hint but not a fact. 03:33, May 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * When Ivystripe said "If one cat is newly mentioned as [a senior warrior], cats that are of similar age can have that used as their citation as well. That would make sense, since I'd think age pretty much qualifies a cat for a senior warrior rank." I disagree, unless you can provide a citation that verifies that "senior" status is contingent exclusively on age and not other (currently unknown) factors. 19:56, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Willowshine ~ Silver Nomination
8D Willowshine~ Her style and history seems quite well now, except the sections of Po3, which I'll get to. Comments? 04:12, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

You might consider changing the main quote. Just because there are more descriptive ones, like when she talks about how much she loves being a medicine cat and what have you.... x3 04:16, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expant the sections Dawn, Sign of The Moon, Eclipse, and Outcast in any way?

If you've fixed the concerns on her talk page, can you remove the box saying that she needs improvements? 01:11, May 4, 01 (UTC)

I removed the style template, and I changed the quote, but it was changed again...*shrugs* I'll get to the history now. 19:10, May 12, 2012 (UTC)

Is the history done? 20:44, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Willowpelt - Silver Nomination
I've wanted to nominate her since I first joined PC. Anyway, I changed the main quote, and I'll be adding more this evening. I expanded the overall history, and added a section for Midnight, because she was mentioned. So, suggestions? 00:24, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

This is just a pet peeve of mine, but could you get the quotes section in chronological order? 01:13, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand the Fireand Ice and A Dangerous Path sections? 02:24, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

I fixed the quotes. Why on earth did I arrange them like that? I can't expand Fire and Ice because I don't have the book, but I'd really appreciate it if someone who does have it could help me out. If there's anything else to add, that is. I can't expand A Dangerous Path at all, but I rephrased it a little. 14:49, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

I can help you out with Fire and Ice. 15:10, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

That would be great; thanks! :3 13:52, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Is this still being worked on? 18:21, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

I am, but I don't think Berryflower has expanded FaI yet. 01:31, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I haven't had time to look at Fire and Ice, I'll do it now :3 11:45, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Is it possible to expand Bluestar's Prophecy? --Starry Hawk My Talk!  22:33, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Nope. 15:49, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Tangle ~ Silver Nomination
Wasn't much to work on in the manga books, but I'm flipping through SkyClan's Destiny and Firestar's Quest right now, so I'll edit his a bit more soon. Comments? I will also be adding more quotes. 03:58, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Expand SkyClan's Destiny. 18:21, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Expanded Firestar's Quest, and added a new quote. I'll add more to SkyClan's Destiny in a bit. 02:34, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Expanded/detailed SkyClan's Destiny more. 00:35, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Expand/detail After the Flood and Beyond the Code. 00:23, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Softwing - Silver Nomination
Before, I expanded a little bit of history in CP. I will be adding some more quotes in the near future. Comments? 18:27, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

There needs to be the cite that only Thunderclan's allegiances were listed in BP. I'll add that in for you.-- 19:19, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I was trying to find it xD 19:21, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Are there any more quotes? ☛Duc kspl  ash☚  22:23, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

If you've taken care of the concerns listed on the talk page, could you cross them out and remove the template at the top of the article please? 16:58, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

All set Holly. I added another quote and I will find more if needed. 16:44, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Windflight ~ Silver Nomination
I would like to nominate Windflight for Silver status; I added details to his Bluestar's Prophecy history and replaced/rewrote some of the sentences, as they weren't in event order. Starry Hawk My Talk!  01:35, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Nice job! Can you add a few more quotes and remove the template on top of the page? ☛Duc kspl  ash☚  01:50, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, I added 3 quotes and removed the template. Starry Hawk My Talk!  02:18, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

One of the quotes has a typo in the description. Also, is it possible to add dialogues to the single quotes? 22:47, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I edited the typo; and how do I add dialogues? --Starry Hawk My Talk!  23:25, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Like this. Does that help? 23:40, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Is this still being worked on? 21:31, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

I still intend to work on it. --Starry Hawk My Talk!  22:37, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't really seem like you are working on it. But if you are, are there any more quotes you can add? 00:17, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Gorsetail (P3) - Silver Nomination
Doesn't appear much, so I don't really have a lot to say. 01:31, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Any more quotes, I remember her saying a few things to Jayfeather in The Last Hope. -- ☛Duc kspl  ash☚  04:05, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

She doesn't appear in the Last Hope, at least I didn't see her. 02:36, June 2, 2012 (UTC) Oh Celestia, I'm blind. I'll get to work. 02:37, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think any of her speaking parts are quote-worthy. They don't really do anything to describe her personality, and that's what quoets are for, right? 22:10, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Crookedstar as a Loner
Alright, I'm officially moving this conversation to where it belongs, which is here. PCA's been arguing about whether or not Crookedkit was a loner when he left RiverClan and spent a couple months on a farm with other loners.

The conversation started with whether or not the cats that went to sun-drown-place should have gotten loner ranks, and led to a discussion about Crookedkit.

I'm of the opinion that there's one huge difference between these cats:

The travelling cats left on Clan business, sent by StarClan to save their Clans, and thus never stopped being Clan cats.

Crookedkit left on his own without permission and by his own free will. Sure, he did intend to return at first, but once he gave up going to the Moonstone and just stayed with the loners at the farm, I see no reason to not consider him as having been a loner at the time. He was over nine moons old living outside of the Clans without holding any ill will towards the Clans, which fits the bill for loner pretty cleanly.

Thoughts? 22:26, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you. He was over 6 moons old and didn't have a specific owner or group.-- 22:30, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you on the cats who left for the sun-drown-place, but I don't necessarily think Crookedkit is a loner. He still had influence from "StarClan" i.e. Mapleshade during his time on the farm. 23:13, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, but what does that have to do with being a loner? Ravenpaw is influenced and believes in StarClan, too. 23:54, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to always stick by my argument that he does not deserve to be classified as a loner. For one, Mapleshade said "If you stay here much longer you will be one", and that's when he decided to go back to his Clan. He did not want to be a loner and always considered himself a loyal RiverClan cat. He left to go to the Moonstone, not to run away and become one. He always had the intention of going back. Ravenpaw, on the other hand, never intended to go back, and so he hasn't.  00:01, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Why should it matter what he thought he was? He stayed away from his Clan, even after he abandoned his quest to go to the Moonstone. He forsook his place in his Clan, and when he returned he was punished for it. I'm still of the opinion that he was a loner. 15:31, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Frankly, I'd call him thinking he's not a loner as pure denial, and Mapleshade telling him that he'd be a loner if he stayed as her saying anything to coerce him back to the Clan. She lied to him plenty of times, why should this be any different? 15:34, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

And think about it. If Leafpool had left with Crowfeather, but the entire time she was gone she kept thinking to herself that she was ThunderClan's loyal medicine cat, would that have made her any less of a loner? 16:01, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with Shelly, Crookedkit left his Clan, he knew what he was doing. -- ☛Duc kspl  ash☚  18:54, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

We labeled Graystripe a loner when he was actively trying to return to his Clan after being taken from it unwillingly, did we not? Why not do the same for Crookedstar, who willingly left his Clan and wasn't trying to return for weeks despite being perfectly capable of doing so? 19:35, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

You all make great points as to why Crookedkit would be or would not be classified as a loner. In my own person opinion, I believe he should be classified as loner. He was over 6 moons old, which means he wasn't a kit anymore, and he didn't belong to a specific Clan at the time. But, he still classified himself as a Clan cat, so a part of me believes that he wouldn't be a loner. I'm torn into two n this, but I think he probably would be classified as a loner. 11:42, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sticking to my opinion that he's not a loner, and that's not changing. He always intended to go back, he left in intent to communicate with StarClan, he always considered himself a clan cat, and as Ivy pointed out, he was told if he stayed much longer he would become a loner. Meaning he wasn't one at the time. And your point about Mapleshade saying anything to get him back doesn't really make much sense. Saying he was already a loner would probably get him to come back just as much as saying he would be a loner soon. She would have no real incentive to lie in that case as she did in other cases. And would you call any cat that went to the moonstone in the OS and stayed at Barely's barn for a point of time a loner? No. So Crookedkit shouldn't really be either. 02:13, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

No, except Crookedkit wasn't a going to the Moonstone when he was sitting around at the barn, gorging himself on mice and not going anywhere. As I pointed out, he gave up on his quest the moment he got to the barn and was shown how to eat. 02:16, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

And if we don't classify Crookedstar has having been a loner, then we cannot do so for Millie and Graystripe who were seeking out the Clans actively when we classified them as loners. 02:17, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Staying somewhere outside your clan doesn't classify you as a loner. And there's a difference with trying to find the clans, and never officially "leaving" one. Graystripe was ThunderClan then clearly left when he was captured. He was a kittypet for a time. Then he went to find the clans. He wasn't a clan cat at the time. However Crookedkit went on a trip to find the moonstone, never truly leaving he clan. They're totally different cases. 02:23, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

As I've pointed out several times already, Crookedkit gave up trying to get to the Moonstone shortly after he got to the farm. He was not trying to get to the Moonstone while he stayed with the loners. 19:14, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I've been thinking about this for a while, and I do think he should be classified a loner. True, he didn't officially leave his Clan, and he didn't necessarily consider himself a loner, but he did live with them for quite a while, fully aware that he should and could return to RiverClan. Even though he intended on going back, he procrastinated about it for quite a while. The loners acted like they wanted him around, while RiverClan didn't; that was enough incentive for him to stay as long as he did, and probably would have kept him there for even longer. 15:15, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

I already said my opinion, but that above basically concretes the decision for me.-- 20:24, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Well, sorry to be argumentative, but I'm still not convinced he deserves to be called one. When Ravenpaw was forced to leave, he had no intentions of coming back, but we never once heard Crookedkit tell himself he planned to stay. 20:27, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Then what does that say about Graystripe, who didn't think himself a loner, was actively seeking ThunderClan, and we still have classified as having been a loner? It doesn't matter what Crookedkit thought, he was away from RiverClan for an extended period of time for no reason after he abandoned his quest to find the Moonstone. He was a loner. 02:01, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

All I gotta say is this:
 * Graystripe was forcibly taken from ThunderClan, and if memory serves, didn't he eventually start to wonder if he was really a warrior of ThunderClan anymore?
 * Crookedkit was originally traveling to the Moonstone, but stayed with some loners for a while to help out with kits. He had every intention of going back; Graystripe didn't even know if he'd ever find ThunderClan again.

Argue if you wish. But Graystripe and Crookedkit are two totally different cases, and should be treated as such.

Exactly, Cloudy. Actually, it's a miracle that Graystripe even found them in the first place. I haven't read the second and third installments to the manga trilogy, but come on. Your home is being destroyed, you're taken to God-knows-where, don't you think he knew there was a chance he'd never come back? And that he wasn't technically a Clan cat while looking for them? I dunno. It'd be a lot easier if I had read it for reference but you get my point. 02:59, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Hussar - Silver Nomination
Expanded history, and added the one and only quote that really showed Hussar's personality. 23:13, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Harveymoon~ Silver nomination
Well, on his talk page he is graded started, so why not make him bronze? If I'm doing this wrong, please tell me. I've already added some quotes, I'm just going to work on the articles. 20:22, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

We only nominate articles for Silver and Gold. If you want, you can nominate him for Silver, and change his status to Bronze. Best, 20:24, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

I guess I'll do that. :3 13:20, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand SkyClan's Destiny? -- ☛Duc kspl  ash☚  20:28, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

I guess I did if you count rewording the part when they get banned. ^^ 13:15, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Expand The Rescue. 00:15, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

A tip for quotes.
Hey all.

I was troubled about Tumblekit's article for a little while, since his main quote had him mentioned as a female, but suddenly an idea hit me.

When writing a paper in APA or MLA format, you can change quotes slightly to suit your paper (either changing the tense of the quote, correcting spelling, or removing unimportant text), as long as you put the change in brackets.

Basically, what you do is this:

Original quote: "Take care of her, she's so little."

New quote: "Take care of [him], [he's] so little." (I only put the words in separate brackets because of the punctuation between them. Otherwise, you don't need to.)

When you want to take something out, you put an elipses in brackets where the old text was.

Original quote: "I am Lionheart. I was a ThunderClan warrior. In a fierce battle, I died defending my Clan. Now I belong to StarClan, a Clan of the spirits of our warrior ancestors. Yes, you are dreaming. We often walk in the dreams of those we watch. Don't be afraid. I know it looks like a land of mist and shadow, but I promise there is enough light to warm the darkest of hearts. From here, we watch over the Clans we have left behind."

Shortened quote: "I am Lionheart. [...] Now I belong to StarClan, a Clan of the spirits of our warrior ancestors. Yes, you are dreaming. We often walk in the dreams of those we watch. Don't be afraid. I know it looks like a land of mist and shadow, but I promise there is enough light to warm the darkest of hearts. From here, we watch over the Clans we have left behind."

I think this could be helpful to know once in a while. You can correct quotes that have errors in them, like I did with Tumblekit's page, or you could shorten lengthy quotes to keep in the important bits.

And yeah, I asked Kit, she's fine with this.

I hope some of you find this helpful. 02:12, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

I did this on Jessamy and Flower's pages too o3o 04:23, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Erm, I don't really think it was needed there... honestly, we should only use this to shorten quotes or fix mistakes, not to expand them. But I could be wrong. 16:20, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

It only said "They". Just putting "They" isn't very clear, since the quote could be talking about anyone. 16:32, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but that's why people read the entire article and not just the main quote... I know what you're getting at and why you want to do it, but I don't think that that quote needed to be changed. I think leaving "they" makes the person reading the quote want to look down to see the rest of the article, it has a more significant air to it. Like the quote on Poppyfrost's page. It says "the tortoiseshell cat" and not "Poppyfrost", but it's implied simply for being at the head of the article that it's most likely talking abut Poppyfrost, and it has a serious tone to it that encourages anyone looking at it to continue reading. -- 21:23, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Regardless of what we're doing with the quotes, we shouldn't start doing this until the entire community agrees upon it, and it's added into the guidelines. Quite honestly, I think the quotes are fine how they are, mistakes and all. It's what makes Warriors what it is. xD

The opinions of one admin and a member of the wiki is not a community consensus (I don't care if it's Kit who okay'd it or not), so I would appreciate it if no one changed the quotes until everyone has had their fair say in what's going on, since it's such a major change.

My biggest issue is people not knowing how to use it, even with examples. There are some people that would probably still mess up somehow, which is one of the reasons I'd like to keep the quotes how they are.

If someone doesn't know how to use it, we can always correct them. That's why there's a lot of us on this wiki. The mistakes of one person doesn't screw up the entire encyclopedia, because there is always someone around to fix things.

Why do we need community consensus on this thing? It's an APA approved method of editing quotes. You see it in news articles, in official papers, and on websites like Wikipedia all the time. This method causes less confusion when a quote like the one on Tumblekit's page contradicts the information directly below it by calling him a she-cat. 00:55, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Because it's a major change to how we do things, and that way everyone gets a chance to have a say in what's going on. Just because it's how everyone else does it, does not mean we can act upon it without everyone else having their say? How do the project leads and other admins feel about this? APA or not (I know what it is, I've used it multiple times), there are going to be users who don't know how to use it, and I think until everyone has a grasp on just what's going on, it should stay how it is.


 * This does not constitute a "major change" to anything, Cloudy. It just acknowledges something that's already being done by people like Loonie as acceptable. Shelly only put it out as an option, not something that's mandatory. It's a tip, an option. It's not like it's being put out there as a way things must be done. It's better than just correcting errors in quotes (and thus stopping them from being quotes anymore). Grammar is required, but there was no vote about that. Because it's how everyone else in the intellectual publishing realm does it, that makes it the obvious best choice for dealing with corrections here. This isn't a change to a policy. This is a suggestion for a way to deal with something. If you don't like the APA system for quote correction, just don't use it. Given that this is used by newspapers, too, people might not know how to do it but they at least know how to read it already.
 * Also, for the record: I didn't "okay" it. I moreso gave my opinion when Shelly asked me what I thought about using it to address corrections in quotes. Given that it's the publishing standard, there's no reason we shouldn't use it, and there's no reason to discuss it. 01:11, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Seriously, putting this to vote would be like putting the use of capital letters at the beginning of a sentence to vote. It's a widely accepted writing tool. 01:17, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

It's a major change for the wiki, so don't go saying it's not. You know as well as I do that there are people here who don't know how to use it. It may be proper grammar, but if we all of the sudden start changing things around, the rest of the general editors who don't know how to use it are going to think it's being done for reasons other than what's intended. Quite honestly, I don't care what style is used, as long as it makes sense. However, I do get annoyed when people change quotes. It takes the meaning out of it. If we're not going to be correct and 100% accurate with our quotes, we shouldn't have them on that page to begin with.

Imho, it should be optional, and if we're going to start using this "idea", it better stay that way. I'm not being forced to use something like that. It's not a direct quote to me, therefore I'm not using it. The inconsistencies are what I like most about this series, and when you're changing quotes around like that, it takes the meaning out of it. (  thank you for making me seem like an idiot for wanting everyone else's opinions first   )


 * I doubt this needs to be mandatory. There aren't a ton of situations that arise (on this wiki) where it's incredibly useful. The incident with the incorrect gender is a perfect candidate for this situation, because it keeps users from being confused on gender of a character and keep things clear, while acknowledging that the correct gender of the character was not used in the original quote. And I don't see this as mandatory. It's an option, a way to deal with those inconsistencies and keep them from turning into unintentional misinformation. 01:25, June 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Incorrect genders, yes (although don't we use a //trivia statement// for that, though? e.e) But, not an everyday quote. Maybe once in a blue moon, it could be used, but I really don't want to see brackets and like matter on every other quote, whether it be too long, or there's a word or something missing. Quite honestly, it should only be used where it's the only other option. If that's not stated //somewhere//, mark my words, there will be users who misuse this idea and put their own words into articles, and that's what I'm trying to prevent.

Cloudy, I did not mean to imply anything about your intelligence, and I apologize: I realize that what I said could be construed as such.

I never had any intention of making this mandatory. Which is why I did not want to put it to a vote, because doing so may have forced it to be mandatory. This is an option for clearing up inconsistencies in quotes. I know Warriors is full of errors, I had to go through and clean up our nearly endless log of every error in the series several months ago. It took hours. But that doesn't mean our encyclopdia has to have errors in it. I think that correcting Tumblekit's gender in his quotes is the best way to clear up confusion: at the very least, it'll stop more confusion than it starts.

And if the method is misused anywhere, all we need to do is correct the issue. No need to make a big deal out of it. I only intended this method to be used in places like Tumblekit's page, but I pointed out other ways to use it in case such an occasion arose where that'd be the best thing to do. I put this explination here for PC so they'd know that it's an option and how it can be used. If you'd like to publish it in the other projects that handle quotes, feel free to do so in order to spread its use around so people are less confused by it. This is not a major change, it's just something small that doesn't need to be sweated over. 01:35, June 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * A quote going at the top of the page definitely needs a correction if the wrong gender is used, to avoid confusing someone just skimming and not actually reading the whole sheet. But you're right. It's a "once in a blue moon" sort of thing, to ensure that confusion does not happen. It's rare that a "split" type quote is likely the best candidate for describing a character.
 * And honestly... People already insert their own words into articles, their own concepts and their own ideas. I'm sure their are cases of users making up quotes or using them out of fanfics. It's not going to change or cause any extra problems. Most of them probably won't even notice this system start to get used.
 * 01:36, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

It's just an idea to use. Everyone's seen the pros and cons of using brackets to interject something when in a quote via Cloudy's opinion and Shelly's opinion on them. Users can choice whether they want to or not. Let's leave it at that. 'Kay? 01:44, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Ok I'm not disagreeing with using these in some cases (such as Tumblekit), but only for certain thing. Such as mistakes on gender, descriptions, and so on. I'm don't support us shortening a quote, or adding more information that wasn't already there. A quote really is supposed to be something directly taken from the book. However the books do often make mistakes, and it'd be good to fix those to avoid confusion. Nothing else. And for this reason I agree with Cloudy on getting at least some others' opinions. Not a vote per say, just people commenting with their thoughts on this so we at least know most of us are in agreement. Like we did when we were deciding if Death causes should be listed on charcats, and things of the sort. 68.104.94.107 01:53, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Whoops, on another computer and forgot to log in. 01:58, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Join
Hi! I'm Maglorian, and I just joined. I wasn't sure where to start editing, so I saw project and liked this one. Do I need to be invited to get in or something? :) Thanks.

Maglorian

I've just added you to the project members list, please read the guidelines or refer to the FAQ if help is needed. 02:22, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Smokefoot ~ Silver Nomination
Kay, I know this one isn't taken.

Anyway, all I could see to do was expand The Sight a tiny bit. Comments? 02:25, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

=D Thanks.

Maglorian (Talk) 03:08, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand The Last Hope, Eclipse, and Fading Echoes any? ☛Duc kspl  ash☚  17:03, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Are there any more quotes? Expand The Sight/detail it. 00:13, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

A Return and Proposal
Hey it's Quail. Sorry I was gone so long. I've explained on the charart page everything, so go there to see my statement. I have two things to say.

One is that I wish to be added back onto the project. Second is that i have a proposal.

So many characters that have no description are described by the narration and by other cats. Seeing that some major cats quotes are like this, couldn't we do the same for cats with no dialogue? 05:14, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

We already do this, do we not? I did it for Gorsestar. 16:31, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Not really. There's a lot that could have main quotes but don't. (someone please add me back to the project list) 23:58, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see why not. If a quote's at least about a cat, it can be added to a page. There's no rule against it. I've seen plenty of cats with quotes like that on their page. 00:03, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Quailflight, I'll add you in soon, sorry. Please brush up on the FAQ and the guidelines. And I'm agreeing with Shelly on the subject. 21:02, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Rosepetal - Silver Nomination
I expanded her history and added some quotes. =) Comments? ☛Duc  kspl  ash☚  05:20, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Expand Sign of the Moon. I'm pretty sure there's more about her in that book. Like the dog incident? 05:27, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Done. ☛Duc kspl  ash☚  16:12, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Looks pretty good, overall. Could you expand The Forgotten Warrior and The Last Hope? I know she appeared more in TFW, and TLH could be detailed a bit. 20:53, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, and finished. ☛Duc kspl  ash☚  05:36, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Can Night Whispers be expanded more? 17:43, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Finished. -- 21:34, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand Sunrise? --Starry Hawk My Talk!  22:29, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

I can't because I don't have the book. Sorry. 23:03, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Sneezepaw ~ Silver Nomination
Comments? I can't find anymore quotes, because he only speaks once, and the other is just a quote from Swallowtail and Mallowkit that has nothing to do with his personality.

Are there any quotes from The Fourth Apprentice about what he looks like on the lake patrol? I think that could be included. 16:59, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Nope. He was only mentioned to be on the patrol. He doesn't speak, nor interacts with the Clan cats.

I don't mean a quote from him, I mean a quote about him. Worst comes to worst, you could use something like that if you want. 17:03, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

I knew what you meant. I found something that could be used...it's not the idealist of quotes, but a quote nevertheless.

Leaftail ~ Silver Nomination
He's an allegiances only character, but I think he still has to be nominated because he's mentioned outside of the allegiances by another cat, and he's got a quote (although it's not really that major).

I don't see anything wrong with it. Good job. 00:07, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Can I Join?
Do I need to do something to join? Or just post here? Thanks!

Ripplefrost 01:58, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Please read the guidelines and refer to the FAQ if you have any questions. 02:03, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Thistletail ~ Silver Nomination
CoTC can't be expanded and he already has a main quote. Comments? 18:29, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Dawn River - Silver Nomination
Because I was being a derp, I accidentally archived my own nomination without having it go to a vote (lol, facepalm); so, I'm renominating my work from March. xD 22:30, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Does she have any quotes that you can add? --Starry Hawk My Talk!  22:26, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Sol's Twoleg ~ Silver Nomination
Well, I suggested this article and I wrote it, too. Put some quotes in there. It. Looks. Spiffy. >8|

Comments? 02:31, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Looks really good! Any more quotes? -- ☛Duc kspl  ash☚  05:54, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Can you add anymore to the description through the images? I remember her being short and having her hair in a bun.-- 12:11, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

There aren't really any other quotes I can find that are very significant. And I can't make a call on how short or tall she is... she's never pictured next to another Twoleg, only next to cats. Nor can I make a description based on what she was wearing or how she had her hair that day, because those are artificial aspects of her that change each day depending on what she wants, not like the color of fur which typically stays about the same, normally. 16:56, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, found one more quote that fits. That gives us a solid four quotes. Good? 17:01, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't the quote with Leafstar's nickname (Little Miss Mama Cat) be capitalized in the quote? --Starry Hawk My Talk!  17:05, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

It's lower case in the comic. It's just a nickname, the Twoleg points out as she talks that she needs to come up with an actual name for her. I listed miss mama cat on Leafstar's page as her kittypet name because that's all the Twoleg calls her. 17:09, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Cedarpelt ~ Silver Nomination
Re-wrote and added more description to Bluestar's Prophecy. But other than that, there wasn't much more I could do. Comments? 07:14, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Can you cite the trivia and add, maybe, one more quote? =) 22:08, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Added =3 02:33, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Is it possible to expand the end of the Crookedstar's Promise section a bit? --Starry Hawk My Talk!  22:25, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Thistlepaw's Gender
Kay, I'm having a hard time getting a conversation to move on Thistlepaw's talk page, but I'll move it here. Here's what has been said on the topic thus far:

Hiya...

Well, I think we got the gender wrong for Thistlepaw here. Just my opinion, and I'd like to get the opinions of others for this. We typically go with either the first description of a cat or the most used description, I believe. In Thistlepaw's case, he/she is both described as a she-cat first and most often. S/he is described as a tom on a single page in Dark River (according to the citations in the trivia) and once in the allegiances of Sunrise.

Since s/he is most often described as a she-cat, I think we should be counting him/her as a female in our encyclopedia...

Thoughts? 22:39, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Well, looking at the situation of Rowanclaw, wasn't he called female multiple times and then turned out to be male? I would change Thistlepaw's gender, but it may cause problems for uninformed users poking around trying to get edits up. We should stay true to the allegiances, so use the gender that comes up the most in the allegiances. 00:05, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

I still don't think so. The allegiances are often riddled with errors. The only time Thistlepaw actually appears in the books s/he is only mentioned as male once, and every other time as female. 21:36, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

I think so. We did this with Dovewing for her eye color, when she was first called with pale golden eyes, but she was called with blue eyes more, so we gave her blue eyes. Same with Snake(BC) and Ice, at first, we had them gray, but they were called black and white more, so we made them black and white. i don't see why it wouldn't be the same here. Maple♥ pool  Mischief brewing Sirius lover 21:45, June 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, the descriptions were changed because we didn't know if the gray cats described then were actually them, but I //do// see your point about Dovewing.

How many times do I have to tell you people that her eyes were green first? Anyway, s/he's called female first and most often. So what shall we do? 02:18, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

It would mean there wouldn't need to be an edit to his/her quotes~ 02:20, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

We usually go with what's mentioned //first//, unless something else is more common...at least I think ( Pardon me, brain's a little fuzzy from my cold ). If Thistlepaw's mentioned as a she-cat more often, as well as first, then it should be changed. It seems to be our best bet...

(Sorry about your cold, Cloudy) So, can I just change the gender? I see no opposition in the comments made. 00:24, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

I agree to changing Thistlepaw's gender to female as per the points proven above. 16:50, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Mmkay, I'm changing the gender to female. Don't need consensus on this, I was just here to get opinions. -- 16:56, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Bone ~ Silver Nomination
Just added a few bits and pieces in~ I'll be adding in a couple more quotes in a second, but anyways, comments? 08:08, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Could you expand RoS a bit?-- 11:22, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Done what I could without the book. I'll grab it from my library tomorrow =3 13:02, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Detail The Darkest Hour and Cats of the Clans. 18:06, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Kinkfur - Silver Nomination
I added The Last Hope section awhile ago and I detailed Eclipse. I'm not quite sure about the quote I added at the bottom as a main quote. 18:06, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Can you detail Night Whispers and Fading Echoes any? 18:12, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

If possible, can you slightly detail The Last Hope? And maybe add 1-2 more quotes? --Starry Hawk My Talk!  22:23, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Can I join?
Hello. I was wondering if I could join this project. Pokemonlps2  is here   to be awesome.

Sure. I'll add you in. Please read the FAQ and the guidelines. Welcome to the project. 15:44, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Thrushwing ~ Silver Nomination
She doesn't say anything that could be used as a quote and her history is complete. She's one fighting cat. :3 19:17, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

Is there anything /about/ her that can be used as a quote? 00:04, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Done. I could only find one quote that fitted. 22:02, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Tallpoppy - Silver Nomination
I added quotes and expanded her history. :) Comments? 19:39, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

Nightstar as an elder?
I'm moving it over to PC's talk page. So he was mentioned as one of the elders who were forced to live on the edge of ShadowClan's territory so I'm thinking yes. 20:22, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it was his deputy who was mentioned as an elder. Also, I just checked in the allegiances(I think that's how you spell it xD) on Into the Wild and he was listed as a warrior, so I would say no. -- «Duc  kspl  ash»  20:27, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Hm, I have a different input on this subject. On page 131 of Rising Storm, it says: Like Nightstar, Cinderfur had been an elder when Brokentail had been driven out, leading me to believe that he was, actually, an elder. 20:42, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Now that I look back over it I'm torn, half of everything says he was an elder, then the other half says he was an elder. «Duc kspl  ash» 21:15, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

What? I'm confused. I mean, it could have said he was a warrior in some parts, but he was referred to an elder many times. 21:16, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Since he was directly mentioned as an elder, I think he would qualify as one. It would be nice if there was more evidence of this (although there might not be). 21:31, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with Chez now, he was mentioned as an elder directly, you're right, Ivy. «Duc kspl  ash» 21:52, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

I still think not...because 1) he was listed as a warrior in the allegiances of Into the Wild, and 2) it might have, by "elder", just meant "elderly". o3o Just my opinion. 10:46, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm... want some more direct proof I found? ''he was an elder who stepped up to lead the Clan after Brokenstar was driven out. '' Somewhere in Secrets of the Clans. 14:45, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

An elder, but as Dazzle said; an elder by rank, or by age? There are young cats in the rank of elder (*cough*Longtail*cough*) and elder cats in the warrior, or deputy rank (*cough*Dustpelt*cough*). Also, it could just be a mistake, as Nightpelt was an elderly warrior in the allegiances. Just because he was in a group of elders doesn't mean he is an elder. Also, if anyone has proof, provide us with cites. 15:03, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

(facepalm) If they called him an elder, what's there to argue about? And elder's and elder's an elder. We've designated cats to a rank for much, much less. If he was directly called an elder, which he was, then that is the information we must present and there is to be no argument on the matter. Maybe he was just a warrior at the beginning of Into the Wild and retired in the book at some point, but if he was directly called an elder in the book, we need to present that information within the article. I don't know what you guys are bickering about. 15:21, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

And I'd like to point out that I cannot recall any point within the books when a cat that wasn't an elder has been called one. They're always called old or a synonym for old, but they've never been called an elder unless they've actually been an elder. They reserve that term for the rank and I haven't seen them use it as a adjective instead. 15:28, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

What about Spiderleg, then? I don't remember what adjective Lionblaze used to describe him, but he and Graystripe were called old, but they were obviously warriors. However, I can't give my input until I've read the actual passages myself in the books. 15:33, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Lionblaze notes that Spiderleg might be retiring to the elder's den soon because his muzzle is graying. He never calls Spiderleg an elder. He just notes that he's getting on in years. 15:45, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

As clearly stated, Nightstar has been mentioned as an elder so therefore he must have been an elder, right? O.o 18:23, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

For those of you that want proof, Rising Storm, page 85. It says:


 * "For a moment Fireheart wondered if he was sick, but then he remembered that Nightstar had already been an elder when he’d taken on the leadership already been an elder when he’d taken on the leadership of ShadowClan."

There's nothing to discuss and a citable fact does not need community consensus. I'm adding the information to his article. 18:36, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I didn't see that part in Rising Storm. I was going by what was said in Into the Wild. Yeah, that's clear enough. He was an elder.

Teller of the Pointed Stones (OTS) ~ Silver Nomination
That article really needed some fixing up... comments?

Mossyfoot ~ Silver Nomination
Mostly an allegiance only character, but the places she does appear have been expanded. 22:49, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Any quotes at all? 00:05, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

I want to join
Hi there! My name's ChanCharm or Chan for short, and I want to join this project, if you'll let me of course. I don't own many books yet, but I have a local library and a Kindle to buy and borrow books from at anytime. I've also been told I'm good in discussions and desicion making, so any of those are my strengths. I'm fairly new here so if I make a mistake please don't scream at me! Sincerely: ChanCharm 07:02, June 16, 2012 (UTC)