Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Beetlewhisker
Beetlewhisker does not have his AVOS sections listed on his article, and although he did die, it is still his article and is still the same character, mistake or not. Should he not have those sections listed? He still appears - and Heavystep has his appearances as well, despite dying. 00:42, June 14, 2018 (UTC)

I think we should list them for both characters, since we kept Rippletail's appearance in TS despite it being contradicted.

A mistake is a mistake, and Kate herself has even said more than once that these appearances are mistakes for Beetlewhisker. I'm sorry, but I feel we should not be documenting mistakes on in the history sections, as we do not document mistakes for the infoboxes up top. ​​​​​​

Then there should be a page or a section somewhere that details Beetlewhisker’s appearances because omitting him is omitting information. 21:11, June 16, 2018 (UTC)

maybe you could add another subsection the mistakes page that has detailed errors like this? like "detailed character errors" or something thats beyond the usual pelt error colours. 21:18, June 16, 2018 (UTC)

hmm yeah I like that idea^^ cats like Rippletail do need a section to detail said error imo, because for his in particular, he played a decent role even though it wasn't supposed to happen

Any more comments? 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​ 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​ 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​ 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​ 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​ 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​

I feel the agreement is to include it in a separate section, or at least include it in general...should we make a subpage? Something like "Beetlewhisker/Appearance Errors" and then document when he appears post-The Last Hope? Given he's not just allegiance only, has an apprentice, and was confirmed to be the same Beetlewhisker by Kate. ​​​​​​

I was scrolling on Riordan wiki and noticed at the top of Apollo's page, how they have a template that separates his greek and roman forms. Perhaps we could do something like that for Beetlewhisker? Keep everything on one page and make another page for his history errors, while having something at the top of the page to direct us easily between the two.

03:00, July 18, 2018 (UTC)

that could definitely work, and this could easily be used on Rippletail as well. 23:46, 8/09/2018 ​ 23:46, 8/09/2018 ​ 23:46, 8/09/2018 ​ 23:46, 8/09/2018 ​ 23:46, 8/09/2018 ​ 23:46, 8/09/2018 ​

I agree^^ And we can code a similar switch to that as well, it's not that hard to make. 11:17, August 22, 2018 (UTC)

How 'bout these? 21:07, September 4, 2018 (UTC)

That looks great!

20:20, September 6, 2018 (UTC)

Unknown Residences
Hi everyone, sorry for this.

Should Jake and the other cats - not Clan cats - such as Tom and other cats who were said to walk in some sort of skies - have their own status? Perhaps a genuine "unknown residence". 01:49, June 14, 2018 (UTC)

I would agree with it, because it's not right to ignore that they are walking in some sort of skies. even if they don't get a blank for it, they should have some sort of listing. (and maybe change needletail and such to ghost in affies too to avoid confusion.) 01:51, June 14, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with them getting their own status. They're not StarClan, they're not the Dark Forest, they are their own and it is confirmed that they walk a different path, I see no reason why they wouldn't call for their own place.

03:37, June 17, 2018 (UTC)

Agreed^^ It's not the same as that other ghost place, nor our usual residences, so they could be listed all on their own^

Any more comments? 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​ 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​ 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​ 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​ 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​ 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​ 03:44, 7/03/2018 ​

A bit delayed, but listing them as their own place makes perfect sense to me. With the exception of Scourge, since I think it was confirmed that he went nowhere after he died and he just poofed (kinda like the cats who were killed in StarClan and the Dark Forest; Spottedleaf and Tigerstar, for example). For cats like Jake and Tom, I'd say listing that as an actual residence would work for me. Just one question though: would this warrant an article, or just a mention in the infobox?

It is a place where dead cats hang out, similar to StarClan and the DF, but I don't think there's enough info on it to warrant an article. A mention in the infobox would suffice, and also a blank (but that's for PCA to decide) 05:45, 7/08/2018 ​ 05:45, 7/08/2018 ​ 05:45, 7/08/2018 ​ 05:45, 7/08/2018 ​ 05:45, 7/08/2018 ​ 05:45, 7/08/2018 ​ 05:45, 7/08/2018 ​

So are we agreed to list it in the infobox and whatnot? But not to create a page itself for it? Because that's fine with me, as I was only just asking (since chances are people will try and make pages in the future). Also, is there a full list of all of the cats this would apply to? I know of Jake, Tom, and Scourge. Are there any others we're missing? ​​​​​​​

I think Princess was confirmed to be dead iirc? 23:19, 7/15/2018 ​ 23:19, 7/15/2018 ​ 23:19, 7/15/2018 ​ 23:19, 7/15/2018 ​ 23:19, 7/15/2018 ​ 23:19, 7/15/2018 ​ 23:19, 7/15/2018 ​

I'm not sure, but I thought this was for cats who had a confirmed afterlife residence, not just the deceased ones? Unless my wires are crossed here. ​​​​​​​

I think this should be applied to cats who have been confirmed to be in an afterlife. I don't think Princess has been, so I don't think she'd count.

03:00, July 18, 2018 (UTC)

Was Shanty confirmed to have an afterlife? I think it might be kind of borderline, since he was grieving, but Pinestar claimed to have felt her presence and heard her voice when he becomes a kittypet. Then there's Mole and Ravenpaw, who were also said to have residences outside StarClan, but were visiting during the leader ceremonies where they appeared.RageSnake (talk) 16:58, August 22, 2018 (UTC)

Not sure about Shanty, but Ravenpaw I'm not so sure, since he was both confirmed to be in StarClan and not really in StarClan. . . or am I being an idiot. Regardless, Ravenpaw would get it. As for Mole, I'm not sure, I'd need to reread TR. 01:16, 8/23/2018 ​ 01:16, 8/23/2018 ​ 01:16, 8/23/2018 ​ 01:16, 8/23/2018 ​ 01:16, 8/23/2018 ​ 01:16, 8/23/2018 ​

Author statements
Short but simple. I think that we should have a trivia section that splits up into mistakes, interesting facts, but also author statements. 22:02, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

Agreed^^ They should be separate, which would leave more room for things that are actually interesting trivia facts. Splitting them allows for statements that are completely author opinion to not be under the banner of fact. 00:26, September 4, 2018 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me. We might as well, since some of those things really aren't interesting facts so much as they are just general statements. ​​​​​​

Sounds good to me.

01:32, September 4, 2018 (UTC)

^ this would be a nice addition 01:36, 9/04/2018 ​ 01:36, 9/04/2018 ​ 01:36, 9/04/2018 ​ 01:36, 9/04/2018 ​ 01:36, 9/04/2018 ​ 01:36, 9/04/2018 ​

Left behind Elders in Dawn died of starvation
I hope this is the right place to bring this up. It's about Loudbelly, Shadepelt, Frostfur and Speckletail. In their article it says, that they died of starvation. Now I had a look into the Erin Hunter Chat 6, where it is supposed to say so, but it doesn't state it there. The question is there, but the authors say that they either were crushed by the monsters, went to be kittypets or died in RiverClan-camp. Here is the question and the two answers and here is the archived EH Chat 6 if you want to look for yourself. Could the "starvation" thing be removed and the statements be added to the trivia maybe? 08:00, September 1, 2018 (UTC)

Unless we find other proof, starvation should definitely be removed. I'm not sure it even warrants as trivia... the way it's stated, it's not even really said, and is very subjective. All that could be truly determined is they died, not how. 00:32, September 4, 2018 (UTC)

What. That's been sitting there for years, and it's been wrong the entire time??????? ??????? Alright then, that's not what I was expecting. Yes, definitely remove that, especially if the citation has clearly been misused. ​​​​​​

Loner in The Forgotten Warrior
I was looking around, and I couldn't find anything on the loner from the prologue of The Forgotten Warrior. Nothing on Sol's page, nothing on the Forgotten Warrior page, nothing on the minor characters page. We know enough about this cat to warrant a page, and he even has a description and gender. Should he have a page? Darkshadowthe1 (talk) 12:43, September 3, 2018 (UTC)

Yes. In the same vein as The stranger (TST) or Petal and Fox's mother. 15:50 Sat Sep 8 2018

Yes, but those characters have pages and even chararts, this cat has nothing. The only thing I could find on him was in the summary for ''The Forgotten Warrior. ''Darkshadowthe1 (talk) 18:41, September 8, 2018 (UTC)

I meant that yes, he needs one. 22:00 Sat Sep 8 2018

Any other comments on this? I personally agree that this loner needs a page, because we do not know if it was Hollyleaf or Sol. 01:29, September 27, 2018 (UTC)

Loner in YS
Shouldn't Poolcloud, Crowtail, Archeye, Hollyflower, Deerleap, Featherstorm, and Nightpelt count as loners since they were banished by Brokenstar? Yellowfang was counted a loner once she was banished from ShadowClan, so shouldn't these cats? Peacewielder the NightWing 1 (talk) 04:03, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

It's been a while since I've read Yellowfang's Secret, but were they actually told they were no longer part of ShadowClan, or just made to leave the camp? I feel Yellowfang's case and the case of those elders are slightly different. ​​​​​​

I don't think Brokenstar outright said they were no longer part of ShadowClan, if I remember correctly they were just forced to go somewhere else since they couldn't contribute. I could be wrong though.

17:35, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

no, I don't think so. they're still considered shadowclan elders, but they just have to defend themselves. brokenstar also let them stay in the territory, which I don't think he would've had he outright banished them. 18:54, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. Brokenstar said that they could still contribute to ShadowClan, but from elsewhere in their territory. 01:28, September 27, 2018 (UTC)

Character History
Hello Warriors Wiki. Let me first introduce myself since I've never edited here before: I'm Monollama, a wiki editor with a few years experience under my belt. I am a long-time reader of the wiki, and was a fan of the actual series when I was younger.

I would like to submit a suggestion of restructuring character history sections to be more biographical in order of the character's lives, as opposed to by book order. This comes with a few reasons:


 * As it stands right now, history sections are very hard to read if you're not well-versed in the series or haven't been in years (like me), but I would even say for long-time fans too. Sections in history can jump from being a kit, to an adult, back to a kit, then to an apprentice, to a leader, back again, etc. It makes the information disjointed and difficult to understand, since there's no flow to it.


 * There's a good amount of repeating content, because book order references previous events even though it's described in greater detail sections before or even one after. It makes the sections feel somewhat redundant with information and clunky.


 * Some parts are overly detailed, to what I assume make the book sections in history feel more "fleshed out", but that just creates a lot of unneeded information. We don't need to know every time Greypaw caught a vole in every book. We only need important key points such as Greypaw meeting Firepaw and Silverstream, for example.

I think this will overall benefit the pages and information on them however I of course, would like to hear opinions of editors of the wiki. Also I apologize in advance if this isn't the right place to post this. Monollama (talk) 12:10, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

While I see where you're coming from with "overly detailed", the history sections are meant to be that way, that way someone can get a feel for what really happens in the book without actually reading it. Personally, I am very much against cutting anything from articles, unless the authors of the sections/articles themselves decided to do so. The order in and of itself of books can always be changed, sure, but we're not going to stick Firestar's Quest sometime after The Darkest Hour; we need to keep a sense of order, and just putting it in chronological order would mean there wouldn't be any proper sorting.

This is definitely the right place to pose the question, just know that many people will probably be slightly offended if you're suggesting we chop hard work. This got suggested with PB before, and it did not fly well. ​​

If I was offensive, that was not my intent and I apologize for my poor word choice. I understand the amount of work that goes into any wiki, especially an active updating one with an on-going series. While I haven't edited on this wiki, I am an admin and 'crat on Danganronpa Wiki. Actually we too have an on-going project updating character histories but it's on hold currently for other more pressing projects.

I understand wanting to keep as much content as you want per page, especially with a series as big as Warriors and how much editor's have worked on it However, I would like to pose as a casual reader of both this wiki and the series and say when I go onto Yellowfang's page, I would personally like to learn about Yellowfang herself, not summaries from the books of what she's done. If I wanted content about the books, I would go to the book or chapter pages.

For the issue regarding retcons and other inconsistencies (if that's what you meant?) within the books, I would suggest establishing a canon hierarchy with the series. I understand there was some rather unsavory problems about that, in my opinion something like that would benefit the wiki and help settle future disputes.

I'd like to add I have no horse in that race regarding the problems posed by editors, other than I wholly support admin decisions as I am one myself so I understand. Which I hope doesn't come off as bragging or anything negative, I intended it more to be evidence that I'm not just some random editor with no experience. Monollama (talk) 19:15, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

As someone who actually writes a lot of character histories, I agree that we can do a lot to cut out trivial details and get to the main point. I usually try to make my own histories to-the-point, but editing other parts of histories to remove umimportant details has earned me a lot of backlash in the past. In my mind, it's just supposed to be a short summary of the character's appearances and important things they do and say, and not extra fluff like "Lionblaze caught two squirrels and ate one with Cinderheart." So I respectfully agree on making some changes, but I also acknowledge Cloudy's concerns about chopping other people's hard work.  HA WK FI RE98  19:30, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

while I agree some fluff can be cut out here and there, a character's history is intertwined with their actions in the books, which is the entire point of detailing them. we are attempting to implement a personality and traits section for characters, and a shorter summary of their actions after their description, so if one just wants a short summary of what they've don, said, and behave like, they can refer to those. some summaries are also just much older then others and haven't had as much attention put into them, which is why they're more disjointed than others. 19:39, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

For the most part, what we do now is fine. There truthfully are a few character sections I've seen written that are probably too long (read: one cat has a 14,800 word long TAQ section that's really play-by-play), but aside from a select few like that, more detail the better. 19:53, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

Haven't we just passed the character summaries though? Like Sparkpelt we could just summarize all the important events, then if people want more detailed descriptions, they can go to the history below it. 20:49, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

What is everyone's opinion on the formatting of history sections to chronological life event order? I apologize as I should of included an example in my previous replies, but I have a perfect one to help illustration my suggestion. Here on Doctor Who Wiki.

This article is from a very long running series (50+ years) as well as having a very large amount of various media (tv shows, movies, books, comics, etc.) It also lists the different "canons" of events that have more than one ex: "Either because Susan Foreman used the TCE against him while he was holding a matter transmuter, (PROSE: Legacy of the Daleks) or because he was burnt in an energy net by a future incarnation, (AUDIO: The Two Masters) [...]" and sourcing pretty much everything since it's an expansive franchise. There is even a name + pronoun change to reflect that part in the character's history in one of the more recent events at the bottom of the page but only in that section.

It seems however, the answer to my suggestion has been answered with User:~ Aritarius ~'s reply and the passing of character summaries. So I'm uncertain if this topic is needed now. Monollama (talk) 21:30, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

Ravenpaw
I put something similar to this on Ravenpaw's character talk page but I think it got overlooked. I think there's some important misinformation on his page saying he's a StarClan cat. I swear in the two books where his afterlife is discussed, they both explicity show he isn't a StarClan cat. There's even a post on Twitter from Kate Cary saying that she thinks he'd be as unhappy in StarClan as he was in ThunderClan. The whole theme of his character was about how some cats lived better lives outside the Clans!

We know cats that believe in StarClan don't necessarily go there right away, Ashfoot in CT proves that much

Not to mention Mole from TR disappearing after giving Talltail a life because 'there was somewhere else he belonged'

I have exerpts from the actual books showing he's not a StarClan ghost:

Ravenpaw's Farewell

The Ultimate Guide

And here's Kate's tweet, where she was answering a question about Ravenpaw back in march, after The Ultimate Guide and Ravenpaw's Farewell, meaning those books weren't meant to paint him as a StarClan cat and the wiki misunderstood the book source

Kate Cary's Tweet

Thanks for your consideration!

RageSnake (talk) 19:48, September 19, 2018 (UTC)

Well, The Ultimate Guide does show him in StarClan, and he says he is in StarClan, but he also is not. So I think the fact that he add that "he is not" basically contributes to it. And the quote never says the books were not to paint him as a StarClan cat. 21:40, September 23, 2018 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood what I was saying about the quote. She said that she didn't think Ravenpaw would show up in StarClan in a tweet that was posted after the Ultimate Guide and Ravenpaw's Farewell were published. If Ravenpaw was meant to be a StarClan cat in those books, her statement wouldn't make sense.

In the Ultimate Guide he says 'Oh I'm one of them, but also not' which isn't saying he's in StarClan. Interpretting that his residence is normally in StarClan requires ignoring a lot of what is said in both Ravenpaw's Farewell and the Ultimate guide.

The way the wiki is worded at the moment doesn't seem to be the most accurate way to portray Ravenpaw's current situation. RageSnake (talk) 02:56, September 26, 2018 (UTC)

Edit: Apologies, I was extrapolating in my first paragraph. Kate doesn't directly say she thinks Ravenpaw won't appear in StarClan, she responded to a question asking if he would appear there, and she said she didn't know, but didn't think he'd be happy if he did. Either she's unaware of the Ultimate Guide, or doesn't consider it proof that he's in StarClan. I hope that clears up what I meant by including the tweet in my list of evidence.RageSnake (talk) 03:27, September 26, 2018 (UTC)

She might have been unaware of The Ultimate Guide, given as far as we know, she doesn't actually work on those. That was Vicky, not Kate. Regardless, I'm not 100% sure we can use Kate's tweet, given she does not outright say this. I think we should still list his residence and whatnot, but perhaps add some trivia stating that Ravenpaw does not consider himself a typical StarClan cat? We did see him there, hence the citation that brought about the listing and charart, but we can't just ignore an entire field guide. Or we could just change it to "unknown residence", due to the fact that Ravenpaw doesn't consider himself part of actual StarClan... ​​

I believe we should have him stay as StarClan. He explicitly says that he is one of them, but also he is not at the same time. There is no "unknown residence." 01:27, September 27, 2018 (UTC) I think adding the unknown reisdence or trivia would be better. Ravenpaw saying that he's one of them is comes right after he says 'you mean am I a living cat', he most likely meant that he's one of them in that he is deceased, and the 'but also not' meaning his not actually in StarClan. He denies a spot in StarClan in Ravenpaw's Farewell, and doesn't look like a StarClan cat when he shows up in The Ultimate Guide, as evidenced by him stepping into the light cast by the starry cats, and by Bramblestar not being able to tell at first that Ravenpaw has even died.RageSnake (talk) 06:04, September 27, 2018 (UTC)

October FA
Any ideas? 21:38, September 23, 2018 (UTC)

Birchfall?

20:28, September 26, 2018 (UTC)

Birchfall is in need of some recognition. Sounds good.

Birchfall's Crowfeather's Trial is not completed. He cannot be the FA unless that is completed / it is listed that he is not in the book. 01:26, September 27, 2018 (UTC)

How about Nightcloud? I can finish her history in CT tomorrow and she should be ready.  HA WK FI RE98  03:10, September 27, 2018 (UTC)