Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Minor characters
Since the topic was brought up again, I'd like to propose that we make a page for extremely minor characters. Here's an idea for a template, and here's an idea for a layout for the page. Opinions? 12:09 Thu Jul 30

That's not a bad idea at all. :) I like this, but what about if the character has more than one art? It's probably unlikely but what does everyone think? 20:37, July 30, 2015 (UTC)

If the character has more than one image, the character pixels gallery would work just fine. 08:03 Wed Aug 5

Is this for every single character that is mentioned in the books? 12:25, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

No, it's extremely minor characters that have some significance, or just extremely minor characters. Like some unnamed BloodClan warriors in the BloodClan battle. Some cats there appeared in more than one sentence, like the indentical gray toms recognised Barley as a former BloodClan cat. We could also look at the Dark Forest battle. I'd say unnamed characters that are mentioned in more than on sentence. 22:00, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

I've started a list of minor characters with the series. Just to say, but there is an error to the coding in the Charart template, since it goes after the main page name rather than the title. 08:05, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

Err, it's way too short and doesn't list allegiances and book appereances. I think Berry's one is pretty good. 10:40, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

What??!!! I wasn't trying to take over Berry's version. That page is a page for potential minor characters and it just contains information about them. Not the actual page. Why the heck would I even try to take over Berry's page? It's rude, condescending and stupid .-. 11:26, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

???? It's just a list of unnamed characters by book and the info we have about them...? Rather than an actual template/page layout like Berry's...? Anyway, I'm not too sure we should make a page for all of them - I don't think the 'Orange WindClan warrior' who was part of a patrol or something gets a page - pages should be reserved for unnamed characters with somewhat of a significance (Dappletail's Kit, Lowbranch's Mother, etc.) Maybe for the most minor characters, we could have a page like 'minor unnamed characters' and categorize it by book, the info about the characters put in using Berry's template. Idk. 13:45, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

That...was the idea we started on. That's why I made the template. One big page for every extremely minor character too minor even for a page. That's why the page layout's there. That's what I image the page would end up looking like; lists of cats with info and the history. Also, I think Burnt's list is only there as that; a list. Not an attempt at replacing my template idea, so could we calm down a little? 13:49 Sat Aug 15

All right, my apologies. I think I missed something in the discussion, oops. 13:55, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry I came across that way Brunt. It wasn't my intention. 00:55, August 16, 2015 (UTC)

Anymore comments? 05:05, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

I'd just like to ask if everyone thinks the layout for the history sections looks okay. I could probably put everything into the template since most of the minor character's histories are short enough for it... 11:30 Sat Aug 29

There's a coding error for the charart template, it names the files after the page name rather than the character name. Is it possible to fix it? 11:38, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I can assure you nothing like that happens in this template. I'm fixing up an example on my test wiki right now, so we'll all be able to see how it properly works then. 11:55 Sat Aug 29

Sorry, I read that wrong. Are you talking about the gallery template? We could probably create a separate template for this, or edit the one their is now to work for this page. 11:58 Sat Aug 29

Oh yeah, I was. Sorry for being unclear. 12:37, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah the charart box and gallery is automatic. I think there's a way but I'm not an expert on coding. 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

I took a look at the template and the code that puts in the name is just a #switch tag, so it'll be easy to put something in for this minor character page. 07:13 Tue Sep 8

Can you put back up an example? I'd like to have a look at the template and fix anything else needed to before we talk more on what cats to include. 08:40, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Examples. 12:07 Sat Sep 12

Hmm, can you show a bit more example? I more or so want to see how the affiliations work, with past and present and all that. Also family too, how will we list family? Especially with really long family sections. 22:00, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

Berry? Hello? 00:19, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

I'm getting to it now. I haven't really had the time and motivation to deal with this this week. Sorry. 05:56 Wed Sep 23

I don't know...I still disagree. They have their articles and I don't think they need anything else. 13:55, September 27, 2015 (UTC)

What are you talking about Icy? Allegiance only characters wouldn't go on this page if that's what you're thinking. This page would be for characters who are mentioned like, super briefly. Like "the black tom glared at Fireheart as he walked past" sort of characters. 15:45 Sun Sep 27

Oh, so you mean cats that aren't named? Okay. That makes a lot more sense. 19:34, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

But uh, I should probably say - good luck. There are a lot of unnamed characters. Also, I'd like to help if you don't mind. 19:35, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

Examples updated. More examples, added some stuff to the template. Ignore that bottom part - joke with some friends. 12:25 Thu Oct 1

Now I'm really loving these! Do we want these templates multiple colours or try to match them to the wiki's colour somewhat? 22:36, October 1, 2015 (UTC)

The different colours of the headers, as stated on the page, is supposed to represent the cat's affiliation. We'd put a key somewhere, and probably order the cats by group and all that. I was lazy and wanted to show off the nice colours. 17:25 Fri Oct 2

Looking good, Bert!!! Does anyone have any suggestions/ideas for that template, or is it just about ready to go? 00:55, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

Smoky and Coriander
In Smoky's and Coriander's articles, it said that they're both mates, which wasn't confirmed. On Smoky's family tree, it shows that Coriander is his mate. Without any proof they are mates, it shouldn't be up there. Songheart (talk) 21:59, July 30, 2015 (UTC)

It looks like it's clearly said in Bramblestar's Storm, given that not only did Smoky say that Coriander replaced Floss, he was brushing his fur up against her, and even Daisy is shocked, saying that he thought Smoky loved Floss. It's clearly obvious they're mates. Just because there's not a page number does not make a cite invalid.

I know. That's why I removed them, because I thought there wasn't anything saying they were mates. Songheart (talk) 22:12, July 30, 2015 (UTC)Songheart

It was added before I could obtain a hardbound copy of Bramblestar's Storm, and I just forgot to change it, is all. Next time, just ask instead of removing the information claiming it isn't valid. =P We allow the chapter numbers, because otherwise, most the stuff would be considered null and void... since not everyone gets a hardbound copy right when the books are released. I know I need to wait a few days, and then I go through and fix most of the cites I've added... I just happened to forget about those, is all. The cite is very clearly stated in the book and chapter specified. We do the same thing for novellas, as they do not have page numbers.

Clearly obvious =/= confirmed, though. We need an actual confirmation on that. And for 'replaced', it could also mean 'replaced Floss as a mouser' which is what the barn cats are. I'm pretty sure we've had similar cases in the past, but ones that we couldn't consider valid because it wasn't directly said. 01:24, July 31, 2015 (UTC)

Well, the "I thought Smoky loved Floss" comment doesn't exactly say nothing, y'know.

That's the only comment that gives up any backing; otherwise there's nothing else, and even then it doesn't outright state it. I'm pretty we can't use assumptions as cite, can we? 21:45, August 1, 2015 (UTC)

I mean, that almost outright says that Smoky and Floss are no longer mates as he's taken in another one. You would never say something like that to anyone unless you were certain they were with someone else. 07:18 Sun Aug 9

Even if that may be the case, they could be not mates, perhaps she is just assuming. Either way, unless we get a direct confirmation, like how so many other pairings have needed to be in the past [Lionheart and Frostfur, for example], that's just an assumption, even with sufficient backing. 12:53, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

I sorta get what you mean Bbun but I kinda disagree, but since it's how we do it around here... do we even know if they are fully mates? They could be on their way to becoming mates but aren't yet. 01:50, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 23:00, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I think their are mates because Corr seemed to be a little protective about him and all, and like what someone said before, she was so affectionate to Smoky, and he seemed to not care. Giving hint that their mates. : P 23:05, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I'm gonna agree with Beebs on this one. We don't know for sure. It might be obvious, yes, but there's no statement to back it up - just Daisy's assumption. This case is similar to the debate between apprentice and warrior's names. Even if it's obvious that...for example, Cinderpelt's kit name was Cinderkit, we can't put that because we don't know for sure. It's the same case here. 22:21, August 30, 2015 (UTC)

Nothing says they are mates and we have no confirmation even though it's obvious so I agree with Beebs. 10:23, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm still thinking they could be on the way to being mates, or are mates. 23:20, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't matter. There's still no confirmation. 01:38, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

Quote time!


 * Smoky: This is Coriander. She replaced Floss. She's a great mouser!
 * Daisy: Replaced Floss? How can any cat replace Floss? Pg 67


 * Daisy: Why didn’t I know that Floss had died? Had Smoky forgotten about her already because of Coriander? I thought he loved Floss! Pg 69

That's all I can find on the relationship between Smoky, Floss, and Coriander. 00:46, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I know that. But that is no confirmation that they are mates. So it still shouldn't be added. 00:47, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

Character Descriptions
Alright, this is becoming too major and confusing to not discuss about. Many many pages with character descriptions are being removed. Like Sharpclaw (SC) and his sharp eyes, and Clear Sky and his icy eyes. Why? We already sorted out the synonym thing and suddenly we are removing everything that describes the eyes' colours. I do not understand at all.

I think we also need a new system for this stuff, as I keep getting put in the dark with this and it is just leading to much confusion. 01:48, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

Basically everything that's not a physical description, like soft paws, powerful claws, etc. You can't see those, you'd have to feel them. Physical descriptions are like something you see at first glance. 02:00, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

Whoever added the Clear Sky thing didn't even check the context. It said his eyes looked like chips of ice because they were narrowed. Context is everything, and whoever wants to add things needs to read before they do. Also, powerful claws, soft paws, ect... that stuff makes no sense to have in a description.

And I saw on Pips description, the dog, that he liked to run around and sometimes chase cats. That does not need to be in a description. 02:25, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

If anything, it's best to establish what's in a description, and what's not in one. You know, to make it easier for once? Perhaps explaining certain contexts and what they mean for desc. , maybe? 00:29, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me, Beebs. A description should be what you see at first glace- ie; pelt color, eye color, gender (keep in mind these are cats and scents also give away a cat's gender), size, condition of fur (ragged, sleek, fluffy, ect), and things along those lines. Claw size for cats like Bramblestar and Tigerstar too, since it's a signifigant part of their character. You can't tell if a cat's claws are sharp, if their muscles are hard or soft, or anything like that just by looking.

We should add this this little bit to the guidelines; just to clarify that descriptions are purely physical and can be seen at first glance, unless it's a major part of their character or what they were named for, and to remind users to check the context before editing. 07:16 Sun Aug 9

Actually just to add you can see if a cat's claws are sharp. just adding that in. 00:24, August 11, 2015 (UTC)

It's sorta the same with soft fur too. A cat's fur can look soft. 21:59, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

Really? I don't know. My cat has pretty long, shiny fur that looks soft but when I do touch it it's really coarse and not that soft. 02:27, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

that's why I said can look soft. 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 23:20, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

I still disagree with "soft fur" being "physical"... 01:37, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

its literally a tangible thing you can touch and see, (most of the time) its physical. 10:14, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

There's two types of soft: One you can feel and one you can see. I have no idea what we are going to do about that though. 00:40, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

Dead Cat Talk
Firstly, I think we need to remove the post-death thing since it's not really needed anymore.

Secondly, are we giving cats of the Tribe of Endless Hunting a rank? It seems they are similar enough to StarClan, Vicky seems to think they are very similar. All other information we have on the Tribe of Endless Hunting is from the books so... 02:27, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

Well, only an admin can remove it from the template, and I'm only going to do that if we can come to a clear decision. Also, one word from Vicky doesn't automatically mean much in my eyes, imho. Regardless, if we'd do that, then we'd probably need to also shift the discussion to PCA and give them blanks. Although, I was under the impression that they kept some form of organization... I can't remember who said it, but it might have been Kate? I still don't think we know enough about the Tribe of Endless Hunting to make this decision, but that's just me.

Comments? 00:00, August 28, 2015 (UTC)

Tbh, I agree with Jayce. I don't think we have enough about them... 11:29, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Agreeing with Skye and Sorrel - there's just not enough information. 13:26, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, what about the post-death? It's becoming useless for StarClan and Dark forest cats. 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 23:20, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

I'll eliminate the "post-death" section from my sandbox template, rearrange a few things, then we'll see. I don't know if it's a good idea to remove anything yet, given the issues with the current template.

Can we have more opinions on this? 23:54, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

Nature/personality section
We have sections like this on animal pages, so I don't see why we don't have short sections describing the personalities of the cats whose character is fleshed out enough for a clear personality to show. (Firestar, Cloudtail, Sorreltail, etc.) Other wikis do this, and it's a rather important piece of information, especially for those looking for character references for fanfics. I think this may have been discussed in the past but a clear conclusion was never decided upon...so, opinions? 11:22 Sat Aug 29

I do think this a good idea - we could all work on a personality together, throwing in personality traits and working toward a full paragraph/s of personality. Maybe we could do it like we do pages - someone nominates with their full piece, and others pitch in with their suggestions. That way, there wouldn't be many disagreements and edit wars, and the final piece wouldn't be constantly edited for different things on the page. Just suggestions. 11:27, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Personalities are opinions, people may have inconsistent opinions on different character's personality traits. Some characters don't even have specified personalities at all. I think this is unnecessary, unreliable and it's an opinion rather than a fact. There was actually a page that was made for this, but then it was decided to be deleted in the end... 11:37, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think Ferncloud's general caring air or Firestar's sense of leadership are opinions; we'd probably encounter issues with cats like Thistleclaw, but there are characters that have personalities. Also, saying a personality is an opinion is doing a great disservice to the writers, and throwing a character's development out of the window, so, as an author myself, I'd appreciate it if you didn't say that. ._. 12:01 Sat Aug 29

Well, personality isn't an opinion to the authors - they know what their characters' personality is going to be. But it does become an opinion. People/cats in the book may have different views of a character, which means there could be some bias (ex: Thistleclaw, Breezepelt) plus people reading the book could interpret certain actions in different ways. But maybe for the most major characters, like Firestar, where his intended personality is very clear. 12:19, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Seriously, chill out- my comment was nowhere near to anything that offensive. Like Ice said, it's an opinion to us readers. People have different opinions on each character's personalities. We are an encyclopedia, and personalities aren't facts when we cite them- they are opinions. And as for Firestar, it is actually pretty inconsistent. Many one-star reviewers on amazon are discussing here and there about him being a struck-up arrogant and perfect stereotype instead of sense of a fair, calm and wise leader as others think. Tl;dr: Personalities are too inconsistent to be properly cited in an encyclopedia. 12:36, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with this. Character personalities are the readers' opinion. For example, I think Thistleclaw is ambitious. Roo could say she thinks Thistleclaw is not ambitious enough. I'm not sure, I just disagree because I think that personality traits are up to the reader and the authors do have different opinions on the traits as well sometimes. I just don't think this is a great idea and maybe it should just be referenced in the history section. Even then, we wouldn't have a lot of space to fill out about personality. It'd basically just be like, "Ferncloud is caring." We can reference that in her history. That's just my take. 15:07, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I think it will become too hectic to make, and there are some characters we don't have enough information to make it. 22:31, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

imo, a character's personality can change depending on whose viewpoint you're reading from. Let's take everyone's favorite ThunderClan cat, Thistleclaw! To the reader from a normal point of view, like, say, Tigerpaw/Tigerclaw, Thistleclaw might seem like this amazing teacher, mentor, and friend. But to Bluefur, Thistleclaw is this ambitious (in a bad way) cat who wants nothing more than to cause arguments.

Tigerclaw/Tigerstar is the same way, and books like Tigerclaw's Fury prove that. He appears to ShadowClan as a good cat and claims that he was forced out by Fireheart, and that he did nothing wrong. Now, the reader knows this isn't true, but does ShadowClan? No, probably not. It's the same for other cats too- to ThunderClan, Onestar is this arrogant and greedy leader, or some crap like that, but to his own Clan? He would probably be a good leader.

Personalities are subjective to the point of view we're currently reading from, and the narrative implies as much. Some cats don't like others, so their views are naturally going to be on the negative side. They're also going to be bias towards whoever's writing the section, I would think. It's a good idea, yes, but it would have to be thought out carefully to get rid of all subjective and bias views.

I think it'll be too difficult, like Snowed said even the characters have their views. 00:19, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

anymore comments? 00:09, October 2, 2015 (UTC)

Mistlekit (again)
tbh that was archived without a proper conclusion to the entire discussion. ._. I still don't think Kate's comment is even valid enough for an article, because it's Kate liking a fan idea. Why is that allowed, but her liking other fan ideas isn't, like for descriptions? Or Kate saying that Nightcloud and Breezepelt went on the run? "let's call her Mistlekit" doesn't seem like much of anything aside from Kate giving an unofficial name to a character...

I think it's alright to be honest. She confirms the name and gender and that's it. 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

But how exactly is that a confirmation? I fail to see it.

Nah, I agree with Jayce...all she said is that she likes the idea. She says that with descriptions a lot and we don't accept them as official, so why is this any different? <span style="">12:38 Sat Sep 12

"Let's call her Mistlekit" that sounds like a confirmation to me. I don't see how it's not. 00:19, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. That sounds like confirmation. 01:36, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

Ditto with the above. As for the description, there is already one, so therefore there isn't a problem, in my opinion 03:06, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with above statements. And honestly, we could just rename it Speckletail's Kit as with Dappletail's Kit, since it has a description, even if it isnt a confirmation. 20:09, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

River, Shadow, Thunder, and Wind
I don't know if this topic has been touched upon but I'm wondering if we should /really/ keep their names the way they are right now. Right now we'll have to wait until Mothflight's Vision to see what's really gonna happen to them, but they've been described with other names for 6 books straight, and only with those names for one book. Should we change it? 01:19, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

I think Gray Wing should get a page rename as well tbh. He was never Graystar or Graywing, and it's not like his name's going to randomly change anymore- he's dead.

Hmmm... Weren't they called Thunder, Wind and Shadow in Long Shadows Though? 02:57, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but that's one book, versus the entire arc where they're called something else. For all we know, they could have been called that before the idea of Dawn of the Clans came up, and tbh, if they're not called River, Shadow, and Wind during Moth Flight's Vision, then I really think we should consider changing their names to what we have many many many more citations for... especially since these names are looking to be much more canon than the names we saw in Long Shadows.

But isn't Long Shadows The most recent for the Warriors timeline? IDK, for names, should most recent serve more useful than more used? 03:05, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

Not necessarily. I would think that logic would suffice if we were talking about Clan cat. For example, we wouldn't rename Firestar's article to Fireheart, or Cloudtail's article to Cloudpaw. With Tall Shadow, River Ripple, Wind Runner, and Gray Wing (imo), these are characters that, while they were show with the names "Shadow", "River", and "Wind", that was one canon appearance, and I think another appearance that was being told as a story. Long Shadows was also published long before Dawn of the Clans... heck, I think they hadn't even fully confirmed Omen of the Stars at that time, if I can remember properly... While this would work in some cases, these characters are much more well-known as the names given in Dawn of the Clans. Kate also refers to these characters by their more well-known name, not the ones given previously.

Well I definitely agree that Gray Wing needs to be renamed... He was /never/ Graywing or Graystar. 03:25, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

Honestly, yes, they need to be renamed. I had no idea they were even the same cats at first — I thought they changed the entire mythology of Warriors and added new cats. I only knew they were the same until I scrolled down and looked at the names and even then, I was still confused. It makes no sense to have the names they do now, since they've only been called that like...2 or 3 times? <span style="">12:26 Sat Sep 12

ill be for this if their names havent changed after mfv, but gray wing should be renamed now. i mean if he somehow changes that in starclan then we can just rename it again. HotTeacher69 (talk) 19:13, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

True honestly. All Gray Wing is known is is Gray Wing not Graywing. I asked Appledash about this as I was looking over his page and suddenly noticed this. 15:47, September 15, 2015 (UTC)

From the information I see, Gray Wing lived and died as Gray Wing, but was remembered forever as Graywing the wise. I think when they said he was once leader, they mean leader of an Early Settler group. Since he was a huge influence to the early settlers and had foster kits, kin and friends in all groups they all made sure he was remembered. 22:52, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

So, should we go ahead with the renaming? Even if it's just Gray Wing for now? We could wait unitl we see the leaders in Mothflight's Vision, but that's a while from now. 18:19, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

I'm gonna bump this for a comment. 19:33, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

I think we should go with renaming Grey Wing for now, and wait and see what happens to the leaders in MFV. 03:05, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

Marshscar
Should we remove Marshscar's status as leader? He's never actually seen as a leader. Sure, you can assume because he was deputy, but Mudclaw was deputy and he never got to be leader. Should we remove it? 10:20, September 14, 2015 (UTC)

I think around the end he was looked at as leader by all the Clans. I'll have to double check though. 21:50, September 14, 2015 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Marshscar's leader had died, and that automatically makes him leader by proxy, even without a name.

mudclaw was removed as deputy right before tallstar died, anyway. its not the same case. a similar case is brightwhisker, who is considered leader even before she gets her name. HotTeacher69 (talk) 15:33, September 16, 2015 (UTC)

Anymore comments? 23:39, September 25, 2015 (UTC)

Marshscar should be considered leader, and I agree with above comments. If Brightwhisker is one, then so is Marshscar. 03:04, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

Character Template
Alright, so we all know the ongoing issue with the character template, right? It's not showing up right for some, but correct for others. Basically, it's full of outdated and expired coding, complicated statements that are probably unnecessary, and tbh could probably be formatted better due to us constantly deciding to add/remove fields- some sections could use some expansion in their width or height as well. Tribe names are infamous for this- the entire name doesn't properly show up if it's too long, and don't even get me started on having to put "Teller of the Pointed Stones" (with or without 'Stoneteller' at the end of it). I would like to propose a revamp or even a restyle on the character template to make it a bit more functional and easier to fit all of the information. I had a basic thing here and then there was other examples here and in the general history of the page, but I couldn't get some of the sections to show up properly... but yeah, I'd really like to eventually redo and/or tweak this template so it actually works for everyone.

I'd prefer to keep the blue colour, but these still look great! Can you put more on one of the examples as I'd like to see what a full template looks like if you don't mind. ^^ I think you just add age, cause of death, deputy/leader/medicine cat positions and book appearances. Maybe do a Firestar example? He has the biggest template. 21:23, September 16, 2015 (UTC)

Honestly that template does need an update. It's extremely hard to create the thing on different pages because I end up having to jump back and forth between articles to work out the long field names and how everything should be put in, etc.. Plus, as you've pointed out Jayce, the size of different parts just don't work for some pages. Family and education parts sometimes screw up and put different names on different lines and stuff.

I really like the colour scheme on the second one, but I think instead of having rounded boxes we should stick with the rectangle/square thing (or maybe try playing around with the padding; rounded edges have never really worked for me). I agree with an example, but probably not Firestar, because that is a very big Charcat. Perhaps you could try Cloudtail or even Gray Wing, since we've had trouble with his family section before? <span style="">05:08 Sat Sep 19

Thanks for the input, you two! I'll get to fixing that around Tuesday, since that's the next time I have off work! If there's any other suggestions, go ahead and put them here. Also, maybe we could incorporate Burntclaw's idea about translated names into this as well? Because how the template is now, that would be really hard to do.

That's not a bad idea, actually. I wouldn't be against having a translated names section in the Charcat template; it would save having to add a whole new section to articles that are already really long. Perhaps you could have it as a dropdown or something? <span style="">09:40 Mon Sep 21

If you're suggesting putting translated names into the template, I disagree. I think that'd cause a lot of hassle, and warriors is translated into a lot of languages ... Also, there's a page just for that. There's no need for it to be on the template. However revamping the template sounds like a great idea. 17:56, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

Opinions? 00:09, October 2, 2015 (UTC)

It wouldn't be too much of a hassle, imo. It's not too hard to find names in different languages now that all the alternate language Warriors Wikis are popping up. We've also got a few of English-as-second-language editors that could give us a hand. It'd also be easier than crawling through the whole translated names list for one character's name.

Jayce, have you added anything to your examples recently? I can tell a bit's changed but I can't find all the changes. totally not because im too lazy to compared the history <span style="">17:33 Fri Oct 2

Translated Names
This topic was brought up a long time ago, but then it sort of went dead so I figured I'd bring it up again. Basically, I propose the translations of each character's names to be added in a new section in their article, each cited from the other translated books. I think it would be pretty interesting to see the different languages of each character's names on their articles. Comments? 11:32, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Warriors Translations has a list for major characters, and the other language wiki's have been adding links to their pages on our pages (which is a great idea by the way). I think it will be interesting, but I'm not sure if there's much worth tbh. 22:55, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Comments? 00:19, September 28, 2015 (UTC)

Stone (Ro) - Silver Nomination
Credits to the people who filled in his history. Comments? 03:40, September 26, 2015 (UTC)

Quotes? Any quotes? 03:59, September 26, 2015 (UTC)

Cannot find any. All they talk about him is "Stone's dead" or "Stone died too" which doesn't reflect too much about him.. Or should I add those in? 04:32, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

Is there a narrator quote maybe? 23:05, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

Nothing really. I looked but all it says is the brown tom died and stuff. 02:35, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

I think I waited too long for this so I'll gives this three days instead of five. CBV? 05:31, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

Heronwing (TC) - Silver Nomination
Not really that much on him. Comments? 00:36, September 28, 2015 (UTC)

More quotes? I checked and there are some good ones. He always seems to be around Rabbitleap, so you can check the quotes from his page for a good way to find them if you like. 00:42, September 28, 2015 (UTC)

Added. 01:16, September 28, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 00:14, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

Vote's up! 05:31, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

Mistpelt - Silver Nomination
literally only has one appearance. comments? <span style="">01:25 Mon Sep 28

CBV? 00:14, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

Vote's up! 05:31, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

Dawnfeather - Silver Nomination
She looks good. 16:52, September 28, 2015 (UTC)

Half of the text isn't even about Dawnfeather, just describing the situation around her. Can you fix that? I mean, Dawnfeather is only mentioned in one sentence in the entire first paragraph. 23:02, September 28, 2015 (UTC)

The cite isn't correct either- that says Path of Stars, not Goosefeather's Curse. Also, Cloudberry and Goosefeather don't ask if they know Dawnfeather; they ask if he knows who the pale orange she-cat is, and Nettlebreeze is the one to call her Dawnfeather. The article's a bit jumbled and inconsistent with what happens in the book...

You know what guys? Do not work on two articles with two different books because you /will/ get cites confused. I'll fix that right now. Also I "fleshed out" the first sentence but if you want me to remove that yeah. 23:09, September 28, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah it's still too much focus on the situation and not Dawnfeather. Go through the history and fix that too please as it's happening on most paragraphs. 23:34, September 28, 2015 (UTC)

Done! 00:04, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

Much better. CBV? 00:40, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

Bee - Silver Nomination
Credits to Trolly who worked on this. Comments? 16:52, September 28, 2015 (UTC)

i didnt work on it though. but maybe see if theres any more speaking quotes. 22:17, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

No, there are none that really express his personality. 19:32, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 05:46, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

Black Ear - Silver Nomination
Hey I know I need to add more quotes so like don't comment on that but you can comment on anything else 00:01, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

Could you space out the paragraphs some? As in, some of them look like walls of texts - it'd make for easier reading ;;; 21:58, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

Done. I also added some quotes. Black Ear plays a big part but there are no good quotes that he says. So I picked what said the most about him. 22:12, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 00:40, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

Nettlesplash, Sandypaw, etc
so i'm here to bring up another topic, (yay) which is why exactly do nettlesplash and other such skyclan cats have kittypet images for? i'm aware they were taking food from a twoleg, but......they were still feral the entire time. they werent ever in a house (that i know of), never held for a time (graystripe, leafstar) and never renounced their loyalty to skyclan like...ever. its entirely possible for a cat to get twoleg food while still being feral; you can feed a stray cat for a time, but that doesnt make it a housecat immediately. that takes time and the skyclan cats were doing it for a reason i think? or they were just greedy. whichever, but basically im proposing we remove the kittypet affiliations, (and by extension the chararts, but thats not for here.) 15:08, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

No, they weren't taking it for a reason. They were willingly taking kittypet food instead of hunting for it themselves. They weren't staring, sick, or suffering. There wasn't a lack of prey, either. They were being sneaky and tbh due to their actions, were acting like kittypets by taking the food willingly without another motive behind it.

Yes, but they didn't live with Twolegs, and I think that's what is defined as a kittypet. The definition of kittypet is:

"A kittypet is the Clan cats' word for housecats, that Twolegs keep and care for."

The twolegs didnn't keep those guys. They just went for food, and they didn't live with htem. 18:19, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

But they also went more than once. If they'd gone once, then I would agree, but the fact that they went back, hid it from their Clanmates, and had plans to go back again had they not been caught by Leafstar and the others kinda makes me think they'd have just kept on doing it. Willingly taking food multiple times should count for something.

nah, theyre just ebing greedy. and sure they went back multiple times, but did we ever see any intention that they would have become kittypets, no. like ive said feeding stray cats doesnt make them housecats. 18:30, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

Tbh I never understood why their images were there, and I agree with Skt - being greedy for pet food =/= kittypet 21:56, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

I'm on the fence with this one. They kinda became kittypets but kinda didn't... 00:17, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

Tbh they weren't kitty pets they just took food so 04:27, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

You guys also need to remember that some of these choices were made long before you even joined. The only ones around now who were around back then are people like me, Icy, Splook, David, and Roo. We had a discussion or something along those lines, so it's not like it was randomly added. Clan standard for a kittypet is not the same as PCA and PC's standard. Context implied they were acting as kittypets, by taking food willingly from a Twoleg and going back multiple times.

if they get it because they were 'acting' like kittypts ( i still dont agree) then why doesnt every cat whos ever pretended to be a rank theyre not get that image? it wouldnt matter their intent then, because if a different clan cat saw them then theyd think they were a kittypet or whatever. but moving on, they didnt leave the clan. thats my point. they didnt leave, they were still loyal, they werent kittypets. its just them being greedy, and it happens? it doesnt make them a sudden kittypet. calling them one is false, they ever even went in a house, werent even taken. SHRUG 10:51, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

you also might as well add hollowflight and whoever else it was to have kittypet images as well then, since they got kittypet food in MO. :/ 10:56, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

Gotta agree with Trolly here. 16:56, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

November FA
I made a pact to start the discussion at the start of the previous month so we can discuss all we like. There's always something from the list, although I'll need to update it soon. 00:04, October 1, 2015 (UTC)

What about Poppydawn? Her article looks awesome (there's a redlink, I'll fix that soon) and her color schemes kinda reminds me of the month of November... 02:18, October 1, 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, the talk page says the history needs expansion (which I'm not 100% sure of) and needs more quotes, which I sort of agree. That can be easily fixed though. 02:23, October 1, 2015 (UTC)

I can add some more quotes. I don't really think the history needs more expansion, though. It looks as detailed as can be. 02:24, October 1, 2015 (UTC)

I've added a couple of quotes and fixed a few things. Could do a few more quotes, but it's okay I guess. 04:58, October 1, 2015 (UTC)

Do you have another idea? 20:21, October 2, 2015 (UTC)

I just think it needs more quotes is all, you know I think there is more there to get but yeah. Can we have more opinions on this? 23:06, October 2, 2015 (UTC)

What about Daisytail? Her history's up-to-date, and there is an adequate number of quotes, too! 02:59, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

But there isn't really a lot to Daisytail. I mean, if everyoen agrees, yeah, but I'm not so sure since there isn't a lot of history about her and she only appears in like, one segment of COTC... 09:12, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

Friendly reminder that Greeneyes was an FA once. It doesn't matter if they're major or minor. What should matter is that their article is up to the gold rank standard. Also, Daisytail's pretty important to the formation of one of the most important rules in the Warrior Code.

I think Daisytail is good. Does anyone mind if Poppydawn is added to the FA list? She is about ready. 20:32, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

Anymore Comments before the vote? 05:31, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

Cloudberry (TC) ~ Silver Nomination
I had fun, although it took several days to finish the history. Comments? 01:02, October 2, 2015 (UTC)

Stealthfire, this looks awesome! (We could make this the november FA after it reaches silver...) Can you see if there are a few narrator quotes? Narrator quotes are sometimes the best. 01:15, October 2, 2015 (UTC)

I could only find one significant one, other than that one with Echosnout but that's more about her mentor than anything else. 01:54, October 2, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 07:39, October 7, 2015 (UTC)

Squirrelwhisker ~ Silver Nomination
Credits to who worked on it before me. There wasn't much on quotes, as she only spoke once. 00:34, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 05:31, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

Splinter ~ Silver Nomination
Credit to the one/s who added the quotes. I mainly did the history. Comments? 09:31, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

Flamenose ~ Silver Nomination
he isn't mentioned at all in the book. theres literally nothing. <span style="">07:45 Mon Oct 5

I'm not sure we can warrant Flamenose for a silver nomination when he makes no appearances in books at all. Either that or we treat him as an allegiances-only character. 20:46, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

He has a lot more than any allegiance-only cat. If they can get to silver, then Flamenose should be able to. <span style="">06:30 Tue Oct 6

Comma Use
Okay, this is quickly becoming an annoying problem. I was told long ago that there needed to be no commas in this example sentence: "Moon Shadow is a slender black tom." Then later on I was told there needed to be a comma, because it's a descriptive part of a word (I was told by one of the admins), as shown: "Moon Shadow is a slender, black tom." And now I'm told you don't need the comma?? Okay, so seriously, which one is it? I'm not trying to be difficult here, but honestly, I'm getting a bit confused. 14:22, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

I think it can be used, but at the same time, it all depends on what it's being used for. We can't just add it to everything and expect it to be fine. Everyone is taught differently. For how I was taught, "slender black tom" is correct as opposed to "slender, black tom". Two things never qualified as a list in my mind. If it were a brief thing, then I think the comma could be used; such as an allegiance list. But these aren't allegiance lists, so the comma could be omitted and still be fine. In these cases, I think there's nothing wrong with omitting it, because it's still correct. Also, I know you're talking about me, and I didn't say for two items.

I think something that could help is how you say it out loud.

So, if I say: Moon Shadow is a slender, black tom - I stop for breath after "slender". And it doesn't make sense. But if I say "Moon Shadow is a slender black tom" all the way through, it makes some more sense.

On the other hand... if I were to talk about Firestar...

"Firestar is a large, broad-shouldered, sleek ginger tom with sparkling, green eyes." If I say that and stop for breath, it makes more sense. 14:34, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

Actually my last one didn't make sense. tl;dr: It should depend on how many adjectives there are with the amount of commas. 14:36, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

commas are also for pausing for breath? you dont need to pause for breath after the word slender, and it just looks. goddamn stupid. thats all there is to it. if its longer whatever put in commas put putting a comma in 'small, black tom' is just dumb. 19:24, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

It may be dumb to you, but it may also be right in the eye of grammarists (is that even a word?) 19:39, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

if it can be right one way or the other, then its pretty obvious to use the one that doesnt....clog it up for a better term. having a billion commas isnt always the way to go. for longer descriptions, theyre obviously needed, but for shorter ones it really depends on whats being said. and for small black tom or such, it really does look dumb in general. 20:03, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

Commas for longer description's are compulsory as they are listing something. Shorter descriptions, I'll probably need to consult others for that. 20:43, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

I consulted a high school english teacher on this and used the "slender black tom" example. They said use comma. I didn't ask why, but I think it's because you are still listing, slender and black are describing the tom. 06:26, October 6, 2015 (UTC)