Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Cinderpelt Alt
I'm bringing this back up because we didn't really reach a conclusion last time, and I still think she should have an alt. In the manga at the end of YS, when she was alive as both a Medicine Cat Apprentice and Medicine Cat she had a fully healed leg. Both Berrynose and One-eye have alts. for their missing tail, or eye, being there, so she should have an alt. for her leg being normal.

If anyone wants to look at the original conversation it's [http://warriors.wikia.com/wiki/Warriors_Wiki_talk:Charart/Archive_77#Cinderpelt_Alt. here]. 04:02, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

Just something I noticed now, she also has something like tabby stripes on her face, like on her White medicine cat alt. So there's something else. 05:08, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

Bluestar alt, question about Molepelt's fur
In The Lost Warrior manga, Bluestar is shown in one of the pages in grayscale as a dark gray cat with a white face, and black markings underneath her eyes. Does this call for an alt?

Also, in the Yellowfang's Secret manga Molepelt is a longhaired kitty. Should he be put as a longhair since is pelt length is never really mentiond in the books, or is the manga an unreliable source? Hooh54 (talk) 23:53, December 24, 2012 (UTC)Hooh54

StarClan Cats- Stars?
^^Do we get to add stars to the fur of these cats? If we do, (which I would approve of), I say they should look like the ones Shelly made on this image. Pale, small, white dots scattered in the fur. StarClan members have been described with stars in their fur, so I'd assume they get them... 05:00, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know... how would we do it on white cats? 05:02, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

No, no, and no again. (don't get me wrong, I love that image, but no). But if that's what everyone else wants, then I'll go with it. I just...think that's kinda stupid...and if not done properly..ehhhh, no.

Edit conflicts left, right and center >8C I agree with these guys, they don't need the stars. And as Ducky says, how would we get the stars on white cats? Impossible. Anyway, by 'stars in their fur', I always thought that meant they had very shiny, clean fur. 05:10 Sat Dec 29

I'd say we add them. Though we don't need them, they are described with them, which I find important in StarClan's descriptions. 05:27, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

I disagree, honestly it'd just look silly, and not all starclan cats are described with them. Sometimes cats can't even tell if it's a starclan cat or not, so clearly there's not always any kind of distinction. However, if we do end up using them, they should be on the blank itself, not added by each artist using the blank. 05:39, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

The stars don't have to be in their fur, it can have a glow around the image, but I don't think they need it, but if you guys agree, we could go with the starry glow  06:55, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with what's been said above. Though it may fun to play with, I don't think it's really needed and I agree with the white cat point (although we could tint them slightly blue) I don't think it's needed and it could make-or-break the image if not done well 22:06, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Tweak concerns
Hey all, I just wanted to bring something up. I've noticed that with images, we've kind of stopped asking OAs about their images, I really think that if the OA is still around, we should still make sure if they want it before nominating them. A lot of redo nominations have been declined simply because it's something that could be tweaked on the .psd or .xcf file. I know it's kind of silly to be sentimental about an image, but regardless of that, some images can be saved a lot of grief by using the original file instead of redoing it, that's what email is for. And no I'm not pointing fingers, I think a lot of us are guilty of it, actually. Even though I'm not as active as I used to be, I'm still supposed to be in charge of tweaks and I just wanted to give you all a reminder, kind regards, 06:53, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

PCA Myths
Alright, so I've been thinking about this for a while, and it seems PCA's gathered some "myths" of things that have to be done for an image to look right, that are honestly quite silly.

1. Very visible earpink - Images go through many reuploads just to get the earpink visible and not to bright. When you think about this though, there's absolutely no reason the earpink should have to be very defined and visible. On many real cats you can't even see the pink in their ears. All you can see is the shadow, no skin visible. Or often it's mostly covered up by fur so you can just barely make it out. There's really no reason that chararts' earpinks should have to be very defined. Not overblurred, yes, but we shouldn't have to go through 10 uploads just trying to get the earpink right.

2. Very defined shading - Another "myth" is that you need to be able to tell where the shading starts and stops. If you look at shading on anything in real life, especially more rounded or smooth things (like, say, a tail) it's quite hard to see where the shading starts and stops, you have to look very closely. So as long as the shading shows depth, there's really no need for it to be defined. Only if it's flat.

3. Gray noses on gray cats - Now this was mostly squashed by shelly a while back, but not totally, so I'll just go ahead and list it here. It used to be believed that all gray cats had to have gray noses unless otherwise specified in the book. Gray cats can actually have pink noses, and often do. Black cats, yes, they have to have black noses (at least to my knowledge they do), but gray cats should be totally optional.

4. Visible lineart on black cats - We've had a couple problems with this, and a couple minor squabbles. Lineart does not need to be visible on black cats. The black on the pelt and the black on the lineart simply need to be different enough that you can color select the lineart if need be at any point. There's not really much reason that you should have to be able to easily see the lineart, especially when that often ends up making cats dark gray.

I believe that's all of them, but if I think of more, I'll add them. I just wanted to clear these up, cause they tend to cause problems on occasion, and are a bit silly. 08:49, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more on the ear part. I think once, Breezy was told to remove the fur that had been put in the ears, but to be quite honest, most cats should actually have visible fur coming from their ears, even on shorthaired cats. On my real cat, Hickory, he is so longhaired that you can't even see his ear insides because it's covered in long fur, and I think that should be an option for an artist to choose as well. 22:41, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

I agree completely on all these. Unless the earpink is an unnatural neon color or whatever, there's no real reason the earpink should be fussed over so much, and it should be artist's choice. Usually there's no more than a little discolored fur inside the ear. I know I've told numerous people to define shading, but really, especially on really fluffy cats the 3D effect is in how their fur lies, not how dark their belly shading is. 23:00, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with these as well. Especially about the ear pink. I remember spending I don't know how long on Oakheart's tawny alt, because of ear pink, despite it being perfectly visible. Here's how I see it; if you can see it, and it looks like a proper shade of pink, it's fine.

Possible Kit Images
On page 24 of Starlight, it reads, "'Tallstar was the leader of our Clan when you (speaking to Mudclaw) were a kit mewling in the nursery." Wouldn't that quallify for a kit image?

Also, if Blackstar got a kit image, and Flintfang and Fernshade are his littermates, shouldn't they get kit images? 23:25, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

I'd actually been meaning to bring up Fern and Flint. There's a passage in Yellowfang's Secret, that implies they were kits... I do believe it's around page 300-something.

''"You must be glad your kits are out of your paws and you can return to warrior duties." she remarked to Hollyflower.'' - page 308 of YS. It implies that they were kits to me as well, but what do y'all think? 23:46, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

It implies that Fern and Flint were kits to me as well. As for Mudclaw on page 24, directly after the sentence up there it says: "I'm not a kit now" Mudclaw retorted. To me that says he was at one point a kit. 00:02, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

I disagree with Fernshade and Flintfang. It said her kits. That's the equivalent of saying they're her children. Just cause they used the words kits instead of children doesn't mean they should get kit images. Mudclaw however, I do agree. It's no different that Mudfur getting an app image. 01:47, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

"You must be glad your kits are out of your paws and you can return to warrior duties." I think that's enough to imply that Fern and Flint were once kits, as whoever is speaking is saying that Hollyflower doesn't have to take care of them anymore, therefore they are no longer kits, thus implying they were kits. Mudclaw I definately agree with. 02:18 Mon Dec 31

I agree with all of them having kit images, they are all implied to have been kits. x3 03:52, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

Ahh well the second part of the quote... hmm... guess it implies she was in the nursery with them, taking care of them as actual kits.... hmmm... alright. Just so long as we don't start making images for someone just saying "your kits" or something. 03:55, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

The part about kits being in your paws, it certainly refers to the time they were kits and hints that they might have been bothersome for her at that age. Bingo numero uno. Mudclaw, bingo numero dos. 03:56, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

Um, hi
Recently, I brought around the idea of the dancing chicken gif for an emoticon in the chat. The idea was declined, and I was stupid enough to keep going on about it. It eventually lead to an argument, and the chat being turned off. It's all my fault, and I feel guilty about it, and I'm thinking I should leave the Wiki, and getting out of your hair. If I disappear one day and never show up again, don't worry, I'm fine. Remove any rights I have and my senior warrior rank in PCA. If I do leave, there's a good chance I'll only ever come back as an anon, that is if I ever do come back. I'm sorry for pestering you all for a stupid gif. Regards, 04:09 Wed Jan 2

Re-joining
The page lists me as a member under current projects, but it doesn't list me on the top of the page, so may I rejoin? I know how to make (decent) chararts.

Violet talk 22:37, January 2, 2013 (UTC) Of course you can re-join. I'll add you in right now. 16:49, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Blanks - What about the kits?
Okay, since I cannot seem to find where we agreed to only use these for full-grown cats, I'm starting a discussion. So, as far as I know, we have Adderkit, Blossomkit, Mosskit, Larchkit, Hollykit, and probably a couple others that I missed. Some people think that they should only be used for full-grown cats, but I can't remember where we actually agreed to that. So, what should we do? Honestly, I think the blanks should be used for all StarClan cats, regardless of age. Maybe we should resize the StarClan blanks so there are some specifically for those kits in StarClan. After all, they are StarClan blanks.

If we're not going to use the full-size blanks, then what do we do? That's not right to only use the StarClan blanks for "adult" cats, especially if the blanks were made for cats who are in StarClan. It's excluding the younger cats. Apparently we started a discussion and never finished it, so here I am.

Comments?

I thought we weren't going to make new images for the kits of StarClan since the StarClan blanks were made because there are no ranks in StarClan, and we decided a long time ago that kit is an age, not a rank. 03:20, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Though I originally supported the idea of having kit starclan blanks for them and still do, I will point out that this is absolutely no different than with kittypets and rogues and loners. They're full grown blanks, and therefore kits of that rank don't get it. They're as much that rank as Starclan cats are theirs, so I don't see why this should be any different than that. And we don't need to agree on the blanks being full grown cats, you can clearly see it. The proportions, size, ect. It's just not something you agree upon, it's something you can clearly see, and they were approved like that.

So though I would support Whiskey changing the size and proportions of them and putting up kit starclan blanks, I really don't know that it's needed, since we've had this case in the past. Whoever let's make it clear that the kits in starclan shouldn't get sc chararts till this discussion is finished. Shelly y u edit conflict? >:C 03:22, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

As Shelly said, there are no ranks in StarClan, so I think every cat in StarClan should get the blank. You forgot Perchkit x3  03:23, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Duck, the point of my statement was that the blanks were made because there are no ranks in StarClan, and that kit is not really a rank. 03:26, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Um I pretty sure that's not what shelly was saying.... Since kit is an age, not a rank, it doesn't wrongly portray starclan cats. The blanks were made cause the cats who were leader and such weren't still leader in StarClan. However these cats are still kits in starclan. They shouldn't need anything more since they didn't change rank, nor age. I swear imma smack you if you edit conflict again 03:27, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Whoops, read it wrong, but still think kits should get the blank, or at lease a modified version of the blank, they are StarClan members. x3 Now you're edit conflicting me, Paleh. D=  03:34, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

How long did it take you to type that? xD But Duck, the Starclan blanks portray a lack of rank. Kits don't have a rank as is. Why should we use a full grown blank, or make a smaller version of the blank for a cat who doesn't have a rank anyways and s correctly portraying the ranking is starclan? And again, the case isn't really any different than kittypets and such. They're still kittypets, but they simply don't get the image cause of their age. That's how we've always done it, and I don't think this should be much different. 03:39, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Ummm... Along time, lol I get sidetracked easily. xP But in my eyes, they are a part of StarClan, members of StarClan, that's like saying that because Frecklewish, and the other daylight-warriors are still kittypets, they shouldn't get warrior images, Maybe a switch template would be good for this, a modified version of the blanks and the kit image. owo I don't know if I'm making any sense x3   03:47, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

But being part of sktclan means being a rank, in her case, MC. Cody joined TC temporarily, but she didn't get an image because she never became a warrior or anything. You don't get a blank for joining something, you get it for actually changing ranks or ages. Which the starclan kits do not. There's no rank change or age change on them. It'd be pointless making blanks for those guys. 03:50, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

SktClan? lol Yes, but Cody was never shown to have any desire to be part of ThunderClan, these kits do not have a choice, they are members of StarClan, therefore they should get an image for it. 03:54, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

As I said, joining something doesn't mean you need to get a new image. That's be like saying we should make a new rank for the rogues that form groups together and such like Jingo. Clan cats get images when the join purely because a rank automatically comes with joining. They go together with normal clans. StarClan is different, they don't have ranks period, so there shouldn't be an image just for joining. The images are there because they're no longer the rank of any blanks we have, except for the kits, who didn't have a rank in the first place so didn't change. Going by that logic, kittypet, rogue, and loner kits should get different kit images than clan kits. Oh gimme a break, the t is close to the y DX 03:59, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

I still stand by my original opinion, that they should get an image. 04:04, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

-shrugs- To each their own, I put my opinion. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what everyone else thinks. Oh also a little note, if we make altered starclan kit blanks for them, we have to make altered kittypet/rogue/loner kit blanks for other characters. o3o Jus' sayin'. 04:09, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think they need another set of blanks. Just give them the StarClan blank. Like Paleh said, the kittypet, rogue, and loner don't get smaller blanks for their kits. If this does pass Whiskey is going to need to figure out a better way of resizing blanks. o3o  04:56, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Resizing the blanks a bit would be a good idea. After all, the kits are still members of StarClan. 12:13, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Why not just having a toggle between the full-sized StarClan blanks and the kit blanks? Honestly, Mosskit and co. are every bit a StarClan member as Whistestorm and others...they're just smaller. They should still get some kind of image. 14:30, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

A toggle would be a good idea. Leggo's got a really good point. They are just as much of a StarClan cat. And I think Mosskit actually says something to that effect in The Last Hope that proves they're not just "kits".

I stick by my argument that nothing should be done. Again, the blanks were made because there are no ranks in StarClan, so the leader, deputy, elder, warrior, and apprentice blanks wouldn't work, but kits are already rankless. 19:40, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Why should we exclude the kits from the blanks? They're StarClan cats all the same, and we made the blank for StarClan cats. The matter of their physical age shouldn't matter, as it's been proven that kits aren't just kits in StarClan.

Mosskit, Adderkit, and Blossomkit all stayed kits in StarClan, as did Yellowfang's daughters. In fact, the only kits we've seen to have aged in StarClan were Smallkit and his siblings, and the Erins stated that was a special case. And no, the blanks weren't just made to represent cats as members of StarClan, they were made to represent, basically, a state of ranklessness. And, as we've already established again and again, kit is an age, not a rank. I believe the dead kits should just be left with their kit blanks unless we've seen them as adults in StarClan. 20:02, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

To me, it didn't seem like these blanks were made to represent rankless cats, but only the StarClan cats. o3o Anyway, I think it would be good to at least have some sort of differentiation between the dead StarClan kits and the living ones. Maybe not use the full StarClan blank. Shrinking that blank down seems like a good idea. Then, the person looking at the image will get the idea that it is a young kit that is deceased in StarClan. It could be awfully confusing to have all kits, dead and alive, to use the seme blank. It's why we made these blanks in the first place, right? So people would know right away that the cat is StarClan, regardless of what kind of cat they were in their clan. As Cloudy said, why would we exclude kits just because of the age in which they died? They're still StarClan cats. Sorry if I'm repeating people x.x;;  22:00, 03, 01, 2013

I agree with the others, the kit's have much of a place in StarClan than any other cat. And Cloudy did point out that Mosskit had indeed matured with her time there, and that they are more than just kits there.(I'm sure that even though their size doesn't, they still 'grow up' in a sense) I also agree on the toggle, for that seems like a good idea, too. asdf im probably repeating too cx  22:04, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not truly opposed to either idea, leaving as is or shrinking the blanks, but I don't think that there should be a new set of blanks made all together. Like has been said before, a kit is no less a part of StarClan than any other cat, they're just smaller. Though there's no evidence that kits can't grow in StarClan, as seen with Smallkit and the others, normally, it seems that kits stay as kits, and they're picture should show a kit, not a full grown cat. So, whether we leave them with their kit charart or shrink the blanks, kits should not be done with the full-size blanks since they're not full grown cats. 22:21, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

I've already stated my opinion on what I think should be done so I wont repeat myself, but I will say Scarlet is right. If we do end up giving them starclan images, they most definitely should not be the full sized ones, as they wrongly portray the cat, and it is confirmed by the erins that kits stay kits in starclan except in the special case of smallkit and his siblings. 13:51, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Rejoin?
A long time back, I joined the project, but I was very inactive due to busy schedules. I'd like to rejoin the project, please. Lakewillow 22 (talk) 17:12, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Okay! Welcome back. I'll go add you back in. 16:50, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Rejoining Request
I've been inactive for a really really long time, and I joined as a kit (I think it was) and I recieved Stoneclaw33 as a mentor. I'm back now again, so I guess this is my request to rejoin. If not, no worries! :)

21:06, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Of course you can rejoin. xD I'll go add you back in~ 16:50, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Rejoin?
Derp, yeah, may I re(bunch of other re's)-join x3? I read the guidelines, don't worry.  Prussia:  The Awesome Time Lord 21:17, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Herp a derp, yeah, you can re-join. I'll go add you in, Preuben. xD 16:51, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Rejoining?

 * Yeah, I wanna come back and try and polish up my skills, yup.  E c h o   Kelly  21:01, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Rejoin
Please may I rejoin? I didn't really have a chance to do much when I was a member a few months ago... I'd really appreciate it.

☮♞  ✞SorrelΩflower☠ ☯⛄ I needCoffee!