Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Redoing Images?
Okay, FEEL FREE to COMPLETELY disagree with me. But anyways, I'm starting not to like the rule, when someone redos an image, they have to do the rest of the character's images. I know it's a fine idea and all, but people sometimes don't follow that rule, and the images turns out fine. People actually don't follow that rule quite often. Besides, without the rule, it would give more warriors a chance to tweak an image. Bottom line, I'm not so happy with this rule, and there are so many rules in PCA. 01:13, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. I might not be a warrior but when I am one, that is one rule we can do with out. I just want to tweak charart's so i know how to do those certain types of cats, like white's or tabbies or torties, and others. I don't want to have to follow taht because that limits the amout of charart's you can tweak and i find it unfair. Rain face &lt;3 01:16, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

To me, if you can copy the other artist's stripes or markings, you're fine. The user who has done the first image shouldn't have the act to focus on everything else. If you can copy, then do it, in my opinion. 01:24, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

How about asking permission from the person first before redoing an image that they were supposed to? (kinda like redoing an image & asking a lead) That way people wont bring the rule up when this occurs - 01:27, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I did that with Wildheart. I don't like this rule either, and we aren't exactly following it at the moment. Since it was created, we've violated it at least 10 times. 01:40, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I still like the idea, but maybe not make it so much a rule but more a basic good idea. So maybe, say that it's a good idea but not an actual rule. Other users would be given the chance to do characters that have been started by other users. i.e. Say I did Firestar's leader again but Stoneclaw decided to try his warrior. That'd be fine, but if the charart becomes to difficult, the other artist could be asked to do it since it only takes about 2-5 days to get approved. Thoughts? - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 01:47, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I can see what you guys mean, but, this is in place too to prevent a person from redoing an image then not doing the rest. Take me doing Goldenflower for example. I did a very complicated tabby pattern for her. Now, if I had just left it, maybe somebody else might do her queen. But they get frustrated because 1) they don't have her base colors and/or 2) It's too complicated for them to perfect. Also, I would have been kind of frustrated with someone doing one of her images because I knew exactly how her stripes were supposed to look on both sides of her, and that's something else to take into consideration. I'm not saying we have to stick to the rule, but I do rather like it. I do like the idea of it being a guideline, but fights could break out if, say, I did Goldenflower's warrior, then somebody did Goldenflower's kit, and I had wanted to do all of her images and there was nothing to say who was right. 01:58, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I like Scarletwind's idea. So (another example) lets say I for some reason re-did my first image, Skyheart, and all of the other images had to be redone. Someone could as me if I could do one of the other images, and I'd reply either yes or no. If no one ever asked me if I could do one of the other images, then I'd automatically do it. How's that? I am terrible at explaining things, so if that was difficult to comprehend then tell me. 02:43, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Ivystripe and Scarletwind. I think that the rule should stay, because the artist who did one rank knows the style and has the colors, but if someone askes if they can re-do the image, the one who was re-doing all the other images had to reply a yes or a no. If they say yes, and the one now doing the rank with permission finds it too difficult, the original artist doing all the ranks can take over. 05:32, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if I like the idea of it being a rule, I think I like it being an idea. What do you guys think about this? 05:54, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I think an idea is better than a rule. 05:31, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Scarletwind. 05:12, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

I like Scarletwind's idea as well. 20:34, November 14, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

I like Scarletwinds ide too, but like Ivystripe said, it doesnt sovle the problem of having only one image done and the rest being left. 00:25, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps we should just stick with the rule, it stops problems if you ask me, although I can't really talk as I'm only an apprentice. As Ivystripe stated, the artist doing all the other ranks will find it a lot easier to do the other chararts. 05:07, Mon, Nov, 28, 2011

Voting Now Open!
Voting for the first part of the charart contest is now open! Go here to submit your votes! 01:15, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

Apprentice Test Chararts
Hey, I've been noticing that a couple of apprentices have uploaded new files for test chararts that their mentors have asked for, such as this and this. I'm afraid this might cause some clutter in the images and it may get us in trouble for causing multiple uploads by users. I think this could be solved by apprentices simply uploading the images over their personals or e-mailing the images to their mentors. Any other solutions? 15:31, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should just stick with those two. Personally, I think the emailing is good, that's what I'm doing now, but for people who don't have email, yeah they could just upload it over their personal image. I don't see any need for anything else, but that's just me. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  16:52, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

That sounds good, Paleclaw. Any objections? - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 03:04, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

No. In fact, I think email would be better, that way a mentor could take the time to critique it, and write step by step things, and they could talk back and forth without clogging the recent activity feed / wasting space by uploading images. 06:13, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

This might be a good idea, but if someone can't access/doesn't have a email, we could have an upload image. Like where all thr apprentices upload all their images over the one file. In the comments they could write "Tabby charart for "(mentor)" by "(apprentice)." Anyone agree. I'm fine if you don't, just a suggestion. 05:12, Mon, Nov, 28, 2011

Well I think people's personal images take care of that problem, DJ :3 08:14 Mon Nov 28

Alts
I've got a few questions on alts.

First off, would Lionblaze get an alt (after the apprentice blanks are finished of course) for his CotC picture? He looks more speckled than a tabby, however he DOES have very clear strips on his head (tabby M) and the tip of his tail. Normally I wouldn't ask this, but since Silverstream seems to be getting an alt for only having one stripe, I figured I'd ask.

Second of all, if a ginger cat that's DESCRIBED as a tabby is shown as a solid cat in the manga (in black and white, not on the cover) would they get an alt? I know all ginger cats have stripes, but if the cat is specifically described as a tabby, then shown as a solid in black and white, meaning you can't tell for sure if it's ginger or not, I would think they would. Like for example, Sharpclaw is a ginger TABBY, but is shown as a solid cat in the manga, whearas Billystorm is just a ginger cat (never described in book as a tabby) and he's shown as a solid cat. I think Billystorm wouldn't get one, because in the Erin's eyes, Billystorm very well could be ginger solid, but Sharpclaw is described as a tabby, but shown solid, so shouldn't he get an alt? Same with Jaggedtooth.

Also, just one last question, why was Ashfur tweaked to look like his CotC picture, but all the others got alts for them? Sorry for the long post. XD ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  10:44, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

I think if a ginger tabby cat is shown as a solid, then it should get an alt. I don't know why Ashfur got tweaked to look like the CotC picture, and I'm not sure about Lionblaze. 08:00, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

Lionblaze, I'm not sure about. Speckled tabby is different, so I'm leaning towards yes, but I want a couple more opinions. Ashfur, I got no idea why he looks like that, but he does look nice. As for ginger cats, I'm gonna say, no alts. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 03:07, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

I like how Ashfur looks too, I just wondered why it was different for all the other characters. XD As for the ginger cats, why not? We don't KNOW that they're ginger in the books since it's black and white, and they're shown as solid when they're originally described as tabbies in the book. So why wouldn't they? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  22:15, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

Darkstripe Alt
I think this is a pretty stupid question, but when Darkstripe was described with silver stripes, was he black with silver stripes (like, the opposite of his real description; black with silver stripes instead of silver with black stripes)? Because I wanna reserve this charart If I can :P 02:30, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

We've talked about it before, and we've said no. Because he's already black and silver, so it's just a vice versa. I think he should get one, because his stripes currently aren't silver and he was mistakenly described (just what an alt is), but my opinion is outmatched :P 02:33, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

Seems like they're specifically saying he has silver stripes, not dark stripes on silver. I'd say there's a bit of a difference. ~Breezewhisker~ 02:38, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not so sure of this. Because he's still got the same colors, it'd just be like saying that a calico cat has patches in a different place than they actually are. But because it's a reverse..? 05:20, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

I'll go take down my reservation if needed. 18:33, November 25, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

That was put up and declined about a year ago, and no one's tried since. I still don't think he should get one. I also don't think he should have his dark grey alt, since that's his pelt colour, but hey, that's just me. 19:53, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

I took it down. 23:04, November 25, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

First batch of winners! And part two of the contest!
I'd like to announce the first batch of contest winners here:

Apprentices Spring: Fallowpounce Summer: Loudsplash Fall: Leopardclaw Winter: Mountainheart

Warriors and Leads Spring: Moonleaf Summer: BlueOrca & Scarletwind TIED Fall: Shellheart Winter: Ivystripe

Congrats, all of you!

Part two of the contest is here: User:Atelda/PCA Contest (Part 2) Submissions

(btw, I think it'd be appropriate is perhaps the winners were featured in the news part of the main page of PCA ^^ )

04:08, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I'll add it ^^ 04:44 Sat Nov 26

Can anyone enter still? 04:55, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

No, Wildfire. Only those listed above can enter. However, everyone can vote. xD 04:56, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Can I join? 04:56, November 26, 2011 (UTC)Hazeleye

No, only those that won part one can enter. But feel free to make a charart that fits the theme. ^^ 04:58, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Okay got it. 05:00, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Wha? I got TIED with Scarlet?! Ohoho, this second round is gonna be interestinnggg B) - 19:50, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Congratulations to all the winners and good luck in the next round! 22:17, Sat, Nov, 26, 2011 22:17, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

A Suggestion
Haha, not a day goes by when I don't get an idea about how to improve the project! This idea comes straight from Warriors, and I thought it would be a good idea now that we have the mentor system in place.

I'd like to propose the rule that no senior warrior can become deputy (and by extension, leader) without having mentored at least one apprentice to warrior level. I feel this will ensure that our leaders will be consistently more in touch with the projects members, from the apprentices to the leads, and that they gain a bit of wisdom that comes with teaching someone (you know, the same reasons warriors can't be deputies in the books without being mentors first). Of course, this rule would not be retroactive, meaning it would not apply to the current deputy and leader, but it would apply to all future leaders and deputies.

I got support for this on the chat, but I'd like to see if the project as a whole supports this before I propose it as a vote. Thanks! 05:11, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Hm. I like this idea. I don't see why not. You got my support, Shelly. 05:14 Sat Nov 26

Not everyone wants to mentor an apprentice. What if they're amazingly skilled, but don't want to mentor? It doesn't seem fair to me, mentoring doesn't suit some members' forte. 05:20, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

That's the point, Splash. Skill isn't everything. To be a leader of anything, you have to be able to handle many aspects of the thing you lead. 05:22, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm... I like this idea, but there are some problems with it as seen above ^ but we could find something else for users who don't want an apprentice... so yeah :) -- 06:02, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea. If the leader/deputy can manage to train somebody else to make chararts well, then you know they'll be able to help everybody in the project. It would show their patience and dedication. Making good chararts is one thing, it's a whole 'nother to be able to be patient enough with people well enough to lead anything. ~Breezewhisker~ 06:54, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I support! This is a great idea. ^^ I was thinking about it myself when we first put up the mentor program, but I just kinda dropped the idea after a while. XD However, what if the mentor did all they could, and was a great teacher, but their apprentice went inactive. It doesn't really seem fair to me in that case. They were willing to take on an apprentice and did a good job teaching them, but the apprentice decided to become inactive. Is there something we can do to get around that? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  09:24, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Great idea! Though I do support, there may be some problems, like the one Splash mentioned. Since we are connecting with the book here, can I just throw out a suggestion for the mentor program? I think that the leads should pair up the mentors and apprentices, like who would be the best match. In the series, cats just couldn't go up and ask for them to be mentors. (with an exception from Rainflower xD) Though there may be some complications with this, like if they don't have enough time or work and stuff, then they may be 'excused'. Sorry for my terrible explaining skills.. xD  14:59, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I like this idea too. If Splashpelt's problem happens, they could still be deputy shouldn't they? Same as Brambleclaw's situation. He didn't have an apprentice, but he was loyal and willing to protect ThunderClan whenever he could. If a sw hasn't had an apprentice, but they're still hard working and have great chararts, it wouldn't be fair for them to not become deputy. I still agree though, but maybe it would be better if the project didn't have too many rules.. 22:28, Sat, Nov, 26, 2011

If they don't want to mentor an apprentice, nothing anyone says or does is going to change that. We are in no way, shape or form going to force any member to take on an apprentice. In fact, as good of an idea this is, I don't support it all of the way. It shouldn't be mandatory for a user to mentor another in order to become a project lead. That's just stupid, and honestly, not very fair. What if they're not good at explaining things, or they just don't have the time or patience? If they don't want to mentor someone, they don't have to in order to become a lead. It's not fair. 22:32, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

It wouldn't be for becoming a lead, just for becoming a deputy and head of project. And my point is that our leaders should be able to do these things, should be able to explain to others how to do things and have the patience to do so as well. If they don't have the time for that, how would they have time to be an active leader? If a leader is inactive, it's bad for the entire project and they get bumped to be replaced by the deputy. That's just how it is, and I think it's fair. Also, Mistypebble, I suppose it could just say that the user needs to show good mentoring ability instead of having to mentor an apprentice to graduation. 22:40, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, now. I'm a lead, and I suck at explaining things. What does the leader being inactive have to do with users mentoring apprentices? Regardless, it's forcing those who want to become leader/deputy to mentor, even if they're not comfortable with it. 22:45, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I didn't mean senior warriors when I said leaders. >.> 22:46, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I knew what you meant, trust me. That's why I said what I did. Our current leader even said herself that she's not the best at explaining things, so does this mean she's not fit to be our leader? I don't think so. She's skilled, and fair. Having the ability to explain something should have nothing to do with it. 22:49, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I think both you and Iceheart are pretty good at explaining things, but I'm starting to agree that you shouldn't have to be good at explaining things to be a deputy/leader. -- 01:23, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

I think Shellheart's right. You need to have the skills that mentors need to become a leader or deputy, for all the reasons previously listed. Yes, Iceheart said she's not the best at explaining things, but she still applied to become a mentor, did she not? It's not just explaining things, although that is a necessary part of becoming somebody with authority. It's also being active enough to be there to help somebody through their first steps as an apprentice (although not every apprentice in the mentor program is an apprentice in PCA). It's having the patience not to get annoyed at somebody who really just doesn't get what's going on, and instead being gentle and helpful. I still support this idea. 03:26 Sun Nov 27

I see the logic behind this, but theres already a good number of requirements for being a lead, and i dont really think this is nessicary. Its a good idea, but not one we need. 00:27, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

And what are those requirements? As far as I've seen, deputies are just chosen by leaders, no eletion or voting. 00:38, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

She wasn't talking about the leaders and deputies, but a lead in general. I think Iceheart's right. 00:40, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps this shouldn't be a requirement. If the deputy/leader steps down/becomes inactive, and the new/current leader knows who they want to make deputy, if they don't they could think about how good they are at explaining things, but is doesn't have to be a requirement. 05:26, Mon, Nov, 28, 2011

Idea
Hello, ehm I have a little idea. When WindClan has beed driven out from their territory..I think this cats can get the loner chararts.. Dont kill me, 11:00,November 26,2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure because they were technically still part of WindClan, it's like in the Great Journey, the cats were still Clan cats even though they had not territory. 11:24, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Speckle's right, they were still Clan cats, regardless of whether they were in their territory. It'd be like saying all the SkyClan cats were technically Loners because they didn't live in their normal home. They were still a Clan. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  11:30, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

No, because they were still with the cats of WindClan together. Maybe if a cat went missing, it could get a loner charart though. 22:30, Sat, Nov, 26, 2011

But wait. This gives me an idea. Remember the old cats who stayed behind when the Clans left the old forest? That means they would get loners, right? (I'm already reserving Speckletail incase this passes and someone tries to snatch her. xD) 23:37, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

They technically weren't part of a clan, and they weren't kittypets. I think they would. 23:47, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Good idea Ivy! I snatched up Frostfur :P. They weren't still part of the Clan, so they would count as loners seeing as they probably couldn't hurt anyone or would try too. 02:04 Sun Nov 27

Don't see why not, since the cats that stayed behind in SkyClan got loner chararts. 03:13, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Can we put the loner art on the approval page now? xD 13:10 Sun Nov 27

I think they should get one. I mean, they were still together, but as a band of loners. I don't think they would qualify as a clan when that happened. 18:04, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the elders that were left behind, but not with SkyClan and WindClan. They were still called a Clan, and still had a leader, deputy, medicine cat, etc. 18:20, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

A Question and a Suggestion
My question is about the mentor/apprentice program. What if an apprentice becomes a warrior, what happens then? My suggestion is that we do cover alts. I'm only suggesting because on the cover of Fading Echoes, Ivypool is shown as a silver tabby, not with silver tabby patches. Flametail is also shown as a most rusty ginger than the ginger we made him look like. 13:11, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

When the apprentice becomes a warrior, they go through graduation and is nominated to be a warrior, I believe. And for your second question, we don't think of book covers as a reliable source (well, we did in the past, but now we're doing COTC stuff, so I dunno.). 15:54, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Ivypool is still a silver tabby and white cat, and Flametail is still a longhaired ginger cat. That's not enough for an alt. 19:53, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

It's only a book cover, and book covers are not really acurate. 22:35, Sat, Nov, 26, 2011

Actually, Splashy, if the apprentice becomes a warrior, they can still be an apprentice in the eyes of the mentor program. This is because everybody (no matter what rank!) can have a mentor. For an apprentice to graduate the mentor program, they need their mentor's approval. However, if a user thinks they are ready to graduate, they can ask their mentor, and vice versa. Then the mentor would post the graduation notice on the Mentor Program page :3 As for the book cover alts, I agree with Ivy. 01:55 Sun Nov 27

Cinderheart
I would think so. As long as you can find a cite for it. 19:43, November 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Spoilers* In The forgotten warrior when she goes back in time with Jayfeather he commented she looked just like Cinderpelt would she get an alt. for this? (If she doesn't have one already.) 16:15, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I found a cite, page 210 The Forgotten Warrior 20:06, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't she also get either a MC or MCA charart for her stint as a medicine cat in the book? 22:34, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, she would. If she held the rank, regardless of the time, she'll get one. Hollyleaf did. 22:34, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, if Cinderheart gets this alt, shouldn't Jayfeather, Dovewing and Lionblaze get an alt for being known as Jay's Wing, Lion's Roar and Dove's Wing. Lionblaze and Dovewing might not get an alt though. 22:39, Sat, Nov, 26, 2011

My bad, they already look the same. 22:42, Sat, Nov, 26, 2011

No, because each of those characters have their own pages. That's different. Cinderheart was said to look exactly like Cinderpelt, when she's usually a gray tabby. 22:40, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Which was she, MC or MCA? (hasn't read the book yet, cares little about spoilers) 22:42, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Not sure, as I haven't read it. I think she would be an MCA. 22:45, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

What was the page number? I'll try and find out. If it's a MCA, we'd have to wait for the blanks to be finished. <span style="">00:22, Sun, Nov, 27, 2011

It would have to be an MCA, because Jayfeather hasn't retired or died. 00:23, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

And during the time Cinderpelt/heart was getting stuff for Yellowfang. <span style="">00:26, Sun, Nov, 27, 2011

So does she get a warrior alt.? And yeah she was a MCA -- 01:18, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think she was a MCA because I remember them saying "two medicine cats". 01:57, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Wow I just realised Thunderclan has like 5 medicine cats, Brightheart, Jayfeather, Brairlight, Leafpool, and Cinderheart, and I think she should get both because in her old life she was a med cat apprentice and med cat and in her new life she was a apprentice and sort of a full med cat. 02:40, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Join Request ~ Dazzlewing
Sorry about not being so active before. Can I re-join? D a  z  z  l  e  w  i  n  g  A  star  with  a  purpose 06:31, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Sure. Please remember to be active, though, if you wish to remain a part of this project. I know you were an apprentice before, and you probably know the guidelines etc, but you should still check them out just in case something has changed since you left. You can apply for a mentor here if you wish. Welcome back! <span style="">08:24 Mon Nov 28

Join Request - Hazelwing of LightningClan
Hi,

I'd like to be an apprentice of Charart, for the five-hundreth time. :D I was away for a while because of editing my own site, but I still want to contribute to the Wiki.

So... if I do, can I do Cherrypaw (TC)?

Thanks very much,

May StarClan light your path... 17:04, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Added a new heading. At the moment, the Apprentice Blanks are being redone, so no apprentice images will be made until they are approved. Just wait for a lead to add you in. -- 17:33, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Please try to control your inactivity if you wish to remain part of the project. I dunno what you've missed, but the guidelines are here, the apprentice tutorials are here, and the mentor program is here. Please check the guidelines out just in case you've missed something while you were away. Welcome back. <span style="">08:27 Mon Nov 28