Forum:LionClan/TigerClan Affies

This is something I have noticed and thought I should bring it up here. On most character pages, TigerClan and LionClan are both listed as affiliations. In my opinion, LionClan should not be listed as an affiliation. The reasoning behind my point is, ThunderClan and WindClan were both members of LionClan. However, they never lived in the same place, shared prey, patrolled borders together, or do anything that a regular Clan would do. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but they "made" themselves LionClan the day before the battle against BloodClan. So, the question is, should LionClan be listed as a past affiliation? I am looking for opinions from all users.

Another thing, on the articles, Darkstripe and Whitestorm, the current affiliations are TigerClan and LionClan, respectively. This is listed that way, because they died during the battle. However, should that be included in the articles? Personally, I think that Whitestorm's should be changed to ThunderClan, but keep Darkstripe's the same, for the same reasoning as above.

Also, one more thing! :) Should we include Category:LionClan (Modern) Cat and Category:TigerClan (Modern) Cat on character articles? I think we should, because that is showing which side they fought on during the battle.

So, please list your opinions for each of these items. I hope to come to a consenus soon. 00:23, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

I agree. LionClan shouldn't be listed as an affiliation. They were basically two Clans formed together to just destroy TigerClan and BloodClan--basically almost like an ally. And we should include the category on character articles. Basically agreeing with eveything you said. XD 00:27, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Oh. I forgot this detail. :) And I do believe that Whitestorm's death should be changed to ThunderClan--as he was technically fighting for ThunderClan. I can't honestly explain it, but it's pretty much the same thing you said. XD 03:21, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Since the two concepts are kind of inseparable, we should either mention both or none in the allegiances. I vote for none, as these were alliances and not real Clans, even if they lived and acted so for a short while. Technically, the cats did not leave their Clans to willingly join a new Clan. As for the categories, they are redundant as they pretty much just duplicate the allegiances of Shadow+River and Thunder+Wind. 10:36, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

I think that modern LionClan and TigerClan should not be counted as real "Clans". Not only because of Whitestorm's good points, but also because modern LionClan and TigerClan actually existed for an incredibly short time. They were barely mentioned after the battle with BloodClan anyway. Like Helix says, it's either mention both or mention none-and I think mentioning neither is more reasonable.

As for Darkstripe and Whitestorm, I believe Whitestorm's should definitely be changed to ThunderClan and Darkstripe's should be kept the same, because of what Whitestorm said and also because Darkstripe really isn't considered to be loyal to ThunderClan-and definitely not to their leader, Firestar, as shown in the books.

For the category thing, I disagree with Whitestorm. The categories do not show which side they fought on during the battle because modern LionClan and TigerClan never actually fought against each other. Remember, after Tigerstar died, Leopardstar and RiverClan joined with Firestar and Tallstar, and Tigerstar's followers, like Darkstripe, for example, went to join with Scourge. So my point is, the sides were the allied Clans and BloodClan, not modern LionClan and TigerClan. So I don't think those should be counted as categories.

Sorry for the lengthy opinions. :) But that's what I think. 01:46, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

The LionClan category would go for almost any cat that participated in the battle, with the exception of Tigerstar, Darkstripe and BloodClan. So, I agree with Midnitesky. The only cats that should have it listed in the allegiances are Tigerstar and Darkstripe. 20:26, November 11, 2010 (UTC)

If we get rid of the categories, we are getting rid of almost any mention of TigerClan and LionClan on the articles, except in the history. I think the categories should stay, because they are still needed. By the allegiances, do you mean the affie and past affie? Also, Helix, I understand what you mean by it should stay consistent. However, if my memory serves me correctly, TigerClan lived together for about a moon. That may be incorrect, but that's what I remember. 22:18, November 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with Whitestorm. We shouldn't fully get rid of the categories--they should be used. Midnitesky: We should keep the categories because, yes, they did 'switch' sides, but it resembles which side they had originally fought on-my opinion. :) I'm actually torn between Midnitesky's thoughts and Whitestorms. Either way would be fine to me. But I would probably prefer to go 'against' Midnite's idea. 05:22, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

After reading Whitestorm and Frostheart's ideas, I would like to change my opinion about the categories, as I see it has some problems. As Whitestorm said, getting rid of the categories gets rid of almost all references to LionClan and TigerClan. I now understand they are part of the Clans' history and the way they came to be and deserve to be mentioned and have their own category. But if we do have those two categories, I would like it if they weren't portrayed as actual "sides" in a fight, because they never were. LionClan and TigerClan were allied groups led by different leaders of the four Clans. They never were any sides in a battle.

You see, that's what I dislike. Probably half the users here think that LionClan and TigerClan fought against each other and LionClan won. However, there never was a battle. LionClan and TigerClan simply represented two alliances of Clans.

Now, portraying these two groups incorrectly is like this: (Ex: In Firestar's article) "He led LionClan into the battle against TigerClan and rose victoriously." The two categories shown like this would be historically incorrect.

So, my conclusion? The two categories existing are fine, and should exist-as long as they aren't mentioned as "sides" in a battle. :) -- 12:38, November 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's true. LionClan and TigerClan never properly fought together, but it was intended (until Scourge killed Tigerstar). Anyways, I'm guessing that Midnite meant that we keep everyone in RiverClan and ShadowClan in the category of TigerClan? I was a 'bit confused on that, as you weren't clear enough (for me).

I think that we should keep the TigerClan category to all the RiverClan and ShadowClan cats that had participated. What makes me 'wonder' is that are we going to add LionClan's category and pastaffie to everyone? I don't think so because after Scourge killed Tigerstar, I think of it as just all the forest-cats battling BloodClan. 14:58, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I did mean that-the RiverClan and ShadowClan cats are part of TigerClan, and the ThunderClan and WindClan cats are part of LionClan (with the exception of Darkstripe and some others). As for your second question, Frostheart, I agree with you. Cats such as Mistystar were in RiverClan, but fought with the other Clans against BloodClan. -- 21:23, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

Midnite: Yes, it should never be listed that way, as they fought against each other.

I'm not sure what to do about the LionClan affie, in my opninion, it should just be removed, as it can't be added to every single article that fought in the battle. However, I think that the TigerClan affie should still remain on articles. 00:25, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

I do not personally wish to remove the LionClan affie completely. Just keep them to ThunderClan and WindClan. 00:28, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Like Frostheart, I think that the LionClan affiliation should not be removed. It's just as important as the TigerClan affie, and the two are good existing together. But that's just my opinion. :) -- 01:21, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, so if we are not going to remove the LionClan affie at all, then Whitestorm's should be changed to LionClan. 17:45, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, it seems sensible to me. 16:17, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

No, it doesn't, to me. That's why I think we should remove the LionClan affie completely, and keep Whitestorm's page the same. 02:50, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'd say we should just have them under Past Affiliations, as no dead cat is a current member of either. -- 22:18, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but whatever affiliation the character died in, is always listed as their current affie. 21:48, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

We need to reach a conclusion. What should it be? 01:39, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

I vote for Clan cats who died during the battle, to be listed as LionClan or TigerClan as their current affie. 05:24, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

I think that the cats who died in the battle should be listed as ShadowClan, WindClan, RiverClan, or ThunderClan, but should have Lion/TigerClan in their past affies because they fought as Tiger/LionClan but were buried as Thunder/Shadow/Wind/River. 22:37, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

Spottedpool. that is a very intelligent answer. I never thought about, that the cats would be buried as River/Shadow/Wind/Thunder. That is a good idea. I still think we should remove the LionClan past affie, but keep the TigerVlan one. 13:26, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Moved. 00:00, December 14, 2010 (UTC)