Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Character Overviews
Looking around on a few wikis, I've noticed that all of them have a brief description of the characters prior to going in depth in their history, for example:

Firestar was the leader of ThunderClan prior to his death. As an apprentice, he joined ThunderClan, abandoning his kittypet life and becoming Firepaw. During his training, he developed two friends - Graypaw and Ravenpaw. He figured out the reason behind Redtail's death thanks to Ravenpaw, and hid him in a barn. Firepaw then became Fireheart, and Graypaw Graystripe. Fireheart spent much of his warrior life setting out to prove Tigerclaw's treachery, and when Tigerclaw is caught in the act trying to kill Bluestar, Fireheart saves Bluestar's life. Fireheart then becomes the deputy of ThunderClan, saving it from several more plots of revenge by Tigerclaw, who becomes Tigerstar. Firestar won the battle against BloodClan when Tigerstar used them to try to take over the forest, killing Scourge. Following the events of the first series, he finds a lost Clan and rebuilds them to become SkyClan along with his mate, Sandstorm. Following the events of the first series, he leads his Clan through the mountains to their new home and helps them settle in. In the books after, he continues to remain ThunderClan's leader until his death in the The Last Hope, killing Tigerstar once and for all.

It's honestly just a brief brief description, or a summary of their lives in which I think would be very benefical to character articles, however, main characters, not minor characters. That's a rough guideline of some sort, but like I think a character such as Greeneyes wouldn't need it. Then again, this is just a very rough idea and it's something I doubt would go through anyways, I just wanted to suggest it. Comments on this? Try not to kill me by the way. 01:30, March 15, 2016 (UTC)

I actually agree Icy, I think it's a pretty good idea. When I saw it on other wikis before I used to think that it wasn't a very good idea, but now that I think about it, it would be a really practical way for someone just to read about a character and know what they did throughout the series without having to spend like an hour to read the whole history section. Because some of the major characters, like Firestar and Gray Wing and such, have really long histories and it would be a relief to also have a summary paragraph and just see all of what happened to them instead of having to skim the whole thing. So basically I like the idea. 02:37 Tue Mar 15

Eh, I'm not sure if I like this idea or not... mainly because I feel a lot of the main characters already have fairly large articles as it is... but I suppose I'll take a bit more time and think about it before fully having an opinion.

I think that perhaps it'd be nice, but I think we should get the main articles of characters first. It's a idea, but don't think it should be too high of a priority because of the amount of articles on the concerns list.

My basic point is that I think a brief short of the character would be beneficial in the long run. I know that when I look at a character I don't really have time to read the entire article so seeing the short description does help me. And this isn't a matter of laziness, I just think it's convenient. 03:32, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

I'm 50-50 on this. It'll be useful for pretty major characters with long histories but then again, most people have read the books and typically don't need it.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:18, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, but some people haven't read every single book which is kinda my point here. 22:10, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

I'm still not sure if I like the idea, but that's because I haven't had the chance to think about it... but will everything be cited, or is it just going to be written as a normal history section would be? Personally, given how it's supposed to be brief and have important facts, I think it should probably be cited in one form or another...

Imo, it should be cited, considering that it is facts about the character. 22:43 Thu Mar 31

I'd be more for the idea if it was all cited... It would be helpful for the major characters.

So we have two people agreeing to my idea and 2 people 50/50. Can we have some more comments? 02:31, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

I think this is a fantastic idea! I sometimes need to check something like " Who found out about Tigerclaw killing Redtail?" Having this summary would make that articles look nicer as well! 21:29, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Have we reached a conclusion? 21:10, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

I'm still 50-50. I mean it will definitely needs cites but yeah their might be argument over what exactly what will put there. Like Firestar for example, he has a lot in the first series and then not so much in the second and third series.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:01, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

I feel like it'd be really hard to do characters like Lionblaze that sorta fade away, but were really major at some point. (he barely was mentioned in TAQ) I'm on the edge like Stealth, but I'd be completely against it without cites^

honestly I disagree even with cites, because its still really subject to peoples opinions. what one person could read as stubborn could be read as determined or something in another persons eyes. 12:51, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

I don't think we should even include any "personality traits" or something. But have we reached a conclusion? 17:07, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

I don't believe there should be a character overview as the history is already fine as it is.

Yeah, there most definitely shouldn't be character traits, only cited facts

So it honestly looks like this discussion is going nowhere, because there's a half people who disagree, and another half who agree. I plan to archive this (Stealth, if I shouldn't, please tell me) later so someone can bring it up again where preferably there'd be a stronger outcome that time, so any more comments? Again, Stealth, if I can't archive this let me know. 03:37, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

I don't think it should be cited. I think it should be a quick summary of their life in the person who is writing it own words. So we can't cite it. I think it is necessary as who really enjoys wading through all that history for say Tigerstar just to find out who he killed in the Last Hope. 19:33, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Fernpaw (TAQ), Ferntail, and Featherpelt
Bit of a conundrum here, guys. We have three different cats, but only two of them actually appear.

Ferntail is apparently supposed to be the kit of Sedgewhisker and Emberfoot, and Crowfeather's apprentice, as seen on Kate's blog. She isn't shown in the allegiance list for The Apprentice's Quest, both the iBooks preview and the official release.

Featherpelt appears, though, and she has the same description as Ferntail, but she is, without a doubt, the Featherpaw from Bramblestar's Storm, and one of Crowfeather's apprentices. There isn't anything doubting the canonocity of this character whatsoever... but it is interesting that she shares the same exact description and mentor as "Ferntail".

There's also a Fernpaw, and this she-cat has a totally different description. She's a dark brown she-cat, an allegiance-only character, and doesn't show up in the list we got from Kate.

What exactly should we do about this? We can't really add anything for Ferntail, since she doesn't exist as of the book release. Should we just delete Ferntail's page? Given that Ferntail is also listed as a kit of Sedgewhisker and does have littermates... this doesn't quite make sense.

We can't just have an empty article, though.

Add Ferntail to the minor chacter page? Inconsistencies. Great editors, Warriors. Just great. I'm actually getting seriously tired of all of these inconsistencies 03:31, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

But Ferntail doesn't exist anymore, so she's technically not a character. I don't think we can put her on the minor characters page.

Trivia? 14:51, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

I think it should definitely be trivia, because for example Jayclaw was originally named Jaywing(it's in his trivia), but it had been changed since Kate's blog on the allegiances.

Ferntail was in an early version of the allegiances, of course there will be some changes. I'd say delete because they do not appear in the final version.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:18, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

No, I still think they should be in the trivia. They were mentioned, after all. 22:29, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

I agree, it shoud be in their trivia, but they should be categorized as mentioned characters. Or, of course, Kate could be asked since I think she made the draft? But imo, the page shouldn't be deleted, it should just be in their trivia that they got drafted out of the final copy. 23:03 Mon Apr 4

I'm not sure it makes sense for the pages to be kept, though? They'd just be empty and sitting there. Characters who get changed have their old names serving as a redirect; such as Troutfin, when the name was changed to Milkfur... a trivia statement wouldn't hurt, just like I did for Stonewing and Jayclaw. I'm only asking this time because there seems to be a bit of a mixup with the apprentice/general list, and not just a name swap.

Have we reached a conclusion? 21:10, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

Well I was just looking and it is said that Fernpaw (TAQ) is the one that's Crowfeather's apprentice. — Minkclaw River is Beauty, Beauty is Everything. 15:56, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

I think that we should just leave Ferntail to the trivia and probably delete her page, and put Featherpelt and Fernpaw in the trivia as well. 15:59, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

I think that the trivia for Ferntail should also be in the trivia for The Apprentice's Quest as she was mentioned in Allegiances for TAQ on BlogClan.

So are ew going to do this? 03:32, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Unoffical leaders (SPOILERS)
Sorry I should've brought it up with PC prior to doing anything. Okay so unofficial leaders, I know that this has been discussed before but in Darktail's case, he was heavily referred to a leader so many times Alderpaw was just like "why isn't he called Darkstar you dumdums". He refers to himself as a leader several times, and they drove SkyClan out and he is the leader of the rogues technically, and they all listen to him and stuff like that. Does that make him a leader, or should we put it as unofficialy? Same thing goes for Jingo, by the way. 14:21, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

A leader is a leader, regardless. At the same time, it would also be appropriate to clearly define what the leader rank is. Is it only a Clan rank, and if it is, then why are these cats clearly labeled as leaders of their own group? If so, then what's to say for cats like Furled Bracken and Stone Song, who were very much leaders of the Ancient group of cats we saw in Long Shadows and Sign of the Moon, and why aren't they entitled to a leader charart?

Is our blank only a Clan leader charart? If so, then why are all Clan leaders marked with "Leader" instead of "Clan Leader", when the leader rank itself is shown to be used elsewhere? Slash's group, Darktail's group (they'd also get a page, I think?????), Jingo's group, the Ancient cats, BloodClan, ect. There are multiple groups within the series that have a clear leader of their group, but they don't get anything special.

Right now I think we should think of status, not charart. What I'm thinking is that we have a leader, but maybe in the trivia it says they're not a Clan leader? Or maybe Leader (Unofficially), and officially can be a Clan? Idk I'm tired 14:30, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

They're tied together, and you can't talk about one without bringing up the other, Icy. =P And technically, cats like Slash, Darktail, Furled Bracken, and Stone Song aren't unofficial. They are called leaders, and multiple times at that. They're just not Clan leaders, which makes me think we need to redefine what a leader is and who does and doesn't count.

a leader is a leader, regardless of the group, they have the same job even if they don't have the same methods, the only real difference is the nine lives the clan leaders get, so they really should get some kind of rank acknowledgement. all in all it's just up to the wiki itself if we want to use the images for non clan cats or not. 14:35, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

I hate to say this, but maybe we could have a blank for non-clan leaders? But this is PC, and I think we can call them leaders (non-clan) or something like that. We need to acknowledge that they are leaders, but not Clan leaders. 14:51, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

They are most definitely leaders, but perhaps we could create a Non-Clan Leader rank/category for them? I do agree that each group probably should have it's own page, as said above.

There are so many examples of non-Clan leaders that I'm surprised this rank hasn't been brought in before.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:33, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

Comments?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:12, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

I think a leader is a leader regardless whether it is of a clan or another group because isn't a clan just a group? 21:21, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Have we reached a conclusion?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  06:22, April 18, 2016 (UTC)

It would seem so. Jaysnow (talk) 02:29, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Major Characters
Woo another discussion again. Okay so I've been musing over this for a while, and what is our definition of a major character? For example, I believe that Cloud Spots, Dappled Pelt, Pebble Heart, and Acorn Fur could be included in the major character list for Moth Flight's Vision, as they appear a number of times and help Moth Flight out a lot. However, I do disagree with several cats on the major character list, such as Tigerstar and Firestar for Omen of the Stars. Do we even have a definition? If so, what is it? And if we don't, can we come up with one and apply it to the articles? Or does anyone even want to change the major character list as we have it now? 22:38, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

I'd be okay to having Pebble Heart, as major, but the others weren't really much more than supporting imo. The current list doesn't really need to change too much... Tigerstar appears a lot in OoTS, and Firestar, not as much I guess but he's still there a lot.

I think Cloud Spots could be considered major, to a point. He does appear quite frequently.. but I think the more important question here is do we really have a definition (not talking literal, but what PC would count as) for 'main', 'major', 'supporting', 'minor', 'mentioned', and 'allegiance-only'? It does seem to me that these things have more of a 'it's up to the person(s) writing the article' air, so perhaps we could discuss that too?

The tutorial we have does outline this a little, but you are right we need a more outlined definition.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:01, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

I think the definitions for which characters are Main ,Minor and Allegiance-nly are pretty clear, as per the blurbs on their Category pages. The supporting, minor, and mentioned definitions could use clarification.

Main characters, yes, as they need a PoV in order to be listed as one (as far as I'm aware; this could be wrong, but it's how I've always operated)... but I'm willing to bet that with major, it could very well be called into question. What determines if a character is major? How important they are to the plot? How many appearances they have? Their relevance to the main characters? The entire thing needs to be rehashed and thought out in detail, because we have a lot more characters than when those pages were initially created and the concept thought up. What worked back then might not work now, if only for the massive amount of characters we have.

Have we reached a conclusion (or a definition)? 21:10, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

Not really. We seem to give an importance to a character by book. For example, Stick is considered a major, although he is pretty minor in the entire series, he has a PoV in SkyClan's Destiny.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:05, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

Character Ages
Alright, so, I had a nice piece of information sent to me on tumblr last week, and I figure that it's kinda important, since it revolves around the character ages on the articles. Now, some of these appear to be right...but others don't make a lick of sense? tldr the image explains what I'm trying to say... but I really think we need to rethink when we add ages to character pages, because something's not right here. Do we try and fix these mistakes (as there are quite a few), or do we try something else instead?

I think we need this general rule: The ages will only change when a new book comes out and nothing else. I think partially the reason people are mixed up because maths is not the easiest in the world and it's hard to tell how much time passes in books sometimes. I think yes fix the mistakes and be very strict about ages being changed. Maybe only a certain few users (like the charart being changed on the character pages) are allowed to edit these ages. Might be a little hard to reinforce at first but people will eventually get it.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:36, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Stealthfire makes a good point. Jaysnow (talk) 00:37, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

I can reread the entire series and pinpoint the characters' almost exact ages by taking notes.

Let's try to fix all these mistakes. I know seeing the characters' ages helps me out a ''ton. ''Why don't we use the Events Timeline for a reference when we're done fixing it up? 00:42, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Why not just start over with the ages? Delete them from the character articles for now, rework the system (and when and why the ages are updated, just like Stealth said), and then put them back on the character pages? We could always use a PC subpage or something along those lines to have the approx. ages and the evidence that proves it?

I agree; I know that the DTC timeline is being made, and I think that would make it much easier to track the DTC cats' ages when that is finalized. For the other cats too, though, I agree that it would be a good idea to just clear it for now and add it back in later when the ages are updated. <span style="">02:10 Thu Apr 7

I think on a page ( timeline page or character ages) we should have a rough moon time scale. ie how many moons have past since Tallstar was made an apprentice till when was Bluestars made leader. This would help us get an accurate time span. 10:44, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should take them off for now, fix them, then put them back on. There's so many characters, and it'd be good to take them off temporarily to make sure we don't forget anyone.

I think it's better to leave them just on (for now) and make a subpage to put down notes per book and then change the ages for each specific character. It would probably be best to start with Into the Wild, since I will be reading the book shortly.

Have we reached a conclusion? R(Right now I'm working on a timeline so maybe I can help with this.) 21:10, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to poke this. 15:53, April 18, 2016 (UTC)

Have we reached a conclusion or no? 17:08, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

It's seems to me that everybody agrees that the ages should be taken off, then added back on later when the timeline is fixed. <span style="">18:41 Sat Apr 23

I'm not sure, it doesn't really seem like that. Does everyone agree that we should take the ages off until the timeline is constructed? I heavily disagree because it could be a while until the timeline is constructed. 00:45, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should keep them on, it's pointless to me to spend a load of time removing the ages, only to add them back on later. We should just keep them cause yeah, the timeline could take a really long time

Just remove the bit of coding that makes the ages show on the template. There, problem solved. It can be readded when the ages are fixed.

No problem not solved. The ages shouldn't be removed at all. They'll be fixed but they shouldn't be removed. Who knows how long it will be until the ages are fixed? I agree with Spooky. 19:01, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

why should they remain when they;re not right? it;s just giving out false information and I don;t see why other false information is rmeoved but this gets to stay, lol. 19:23, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Because right now they're really helpful even if they're off. They're not even that much off, it's approximate and it IS going to be fixed and I hope sooner rather than later. I just think it's very inconvenient to take it off when someone obviously worked hard to find it. We'll fix it. 01:21, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Juniperpaw ~ Silver Nomination
Super, super short character

The cites for the family section, just the BlogClan allegiances isn't really sufficient. Just copy the cites from Dawnpelt's page and those will do.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:50, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

UpdatedI've added all the ones on Dawnpelt's page, but not all of them were there so I left those with Kate's Blog still as the cite. Is that okay, or should I do something else?

It should all be there. Which do you mean? It won't be exact, the family members will be different to Dawnpelt but the cites, names, living or not etc should be exact same.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:42, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

I did Ctrl + F and some weren't in Dawnpelt's family section? Idk, but i couldn't find some members

Check pages of the other cats. If they are not related in any way there then just remove them. I think most of these are false as I'm not even sure how Juniperpaw can be related to Brindleface and I have a relatively good memory of ThunderClan's biggest family trees.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:35, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Violetkit ~ Silver Nomination
I think she should because her TAQ section is finished and she has a fair amount of quotes.

Foxstep And now I can fly...

She has no quotes. Can you add some? 00:39, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Sure

Foxstep And now I can fly...

Also some points: The 3 shouldn't be 3 - it should be three. Can you also add why the leaders are arguing? And I know Alderpaw says something about her after she's taken away, so maybe can you add that? And what three older kits are raised alongside Violetkit? 00:47, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

The first part of her section is detailed too, so it deserves a nomination. Not just saying it because I wrote the first part. ; ) Jaysnow (talk) 01:03, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Uh, what was that for? It's all detailed. If you're going to comment, comment for suggestions. 01:09, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Mhm. I actaully have to disagree to some point, I think the last few paragraphs need a good deal of expansion. Compared to her sibling Twigkit, the article looks short whn they should be relatively the same...

I completely agree with Spooky. Especially considering that Violetkit will probably become a major character, I don't think that the detail in the last few paragraphs is near adequate. <span style="">02:43 Mon Apr 25

I completed her page. Should any improvements be made? Jaysnow (talk) 02:29, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Darktail ~ Silver Nomination
I really do not like him. At all. Credits to the one(s) who added the quotes, comments? <span style="">02:39 Mon Apr 25

He deserves a silver nomination. Jaysnow (talk) 00:59, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Petal and Fox's Mother
I believe that Petal's and Fox's Mother should be renamed to Petal and Fox's Mother as it is grammatically correct.

I agree with this. ^^ Jaysnow (talk) 21:41, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Sure, it'd sound better

Agreed.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:43, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Dawn of the Clans characters and StarClan
So, I noticed this while I was on Kate's blog the other day, and Kate agreed to all the DOTC cats being in StarClan; but this was only while being prompted by a fan. So, what do you all think? Jaysnow (talk) 21:46, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

It's here if you scroll down. Yeah, idk what to do, earlier today someone recommended I put this up on PC but I forgot so...

Actually if you click older comments you'll see it, cause it got shoved back I guess

I disagree. She said "I'm not sure" and even when the fan prompted her she didn't give an actual response. 23:39, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

No, in the end she said "Yes :)" after a fan promted her. That's an actual response, hence why it deserves a PC discussion. Jaysnow (talk) 23:47, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Ah, I see, sorry didn't catch that. Then that probably applies although I still am hesitant due to the fact that it looks like the fan forced her into answering. 23:56, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

That's true, and that's why I was kinda hesitant to bring it up because that's what it seemed like. Any other comments? Jaysnow (talk) 23:57, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

I agree. But haven't we already put DOTC Cats in StarClan?

No they're not confirmed StarClan yet. She could've said no, but she said yes so this is a good discussion to have.

Personally, I think it's a valid answer now, though. She's one of the authors, and she said yes, regardless to how many times a fan promted her. If the author said yes directly, then it means it's true. Anyone else? Jaysnow (talk) 00:24, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

It's a valid answer, even if it was a bit forced. We can deal with it if she takes it back later, and only if. But right now, it's a valid cite.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:45, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. ^^ Jaysnow (talk) 01:02, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

I don't know... I don't think it counts as valid, because it really was forced. Besides, she said yes to a question asking if it the ansewr was yes, so she didn't really say yes directly to the question. <span style="">01:15 Tue Apr 26

can you stop asking "anyone else?" or "anymore comments?" this is a discussion that's been up for one day, and hasn't had a course of inactivity I think it was forced, yes, because a fan pressured her into saying it, but I still believe it's a cite. However, I might be wrong. 01:20, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

I know this isn't helping but I looked over the comments even closer. Did anyone notice this? It was confusing when the user said "So is that a yes, lol?" Maybe Kate didn't know she was meaning "Is that a yes" to be the confirmation of DOTC Cats going to StarClan. Or maybe she herself didn't mean that. Seeing closer, I realized Kate told her two times to use her imagination. And that's what she usually does. I haven't seen any user pressure Kate ever before. Maybe Kate said yes because she felt forced to do so, and to keep the discussion from going. Not to mention, the user was sort of rude to Kate about it too, which may be another reason she might have tried to prevent the continuation of the conversation. It's a great deal that it isn't true, but could be a possibility.

I don't think so, but that's my opinion. Jaysnow (talk) 02:46, April 26, 2016 (UTC)