Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Unoffical leaders (SPOILERS)
Sorry I should've brought it up with PC prior to doing anything. Okay so unofficial leaders, I know that this has been discussed before but in Darktail's case, he was heavily referred to a leader so many times Alderpaw was just like "why isn't he called Darkstar you dumdums". He refers to himself as a leader several times, and they drove SkyClan out and he is the leader of the rogues technically, and they all listen to him and stuff like that. Does that make him a leader, or should we put it as unofficialy? Same thing goes for Jingo, by the way. 14:21, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

A leader is a leader, regardless. At the same time, it would also be appropriate to clearly define what the leader rank is. Is it only a Clan rank, and if it is, then why are these cats clearly labeled as leaders of their own group? If so, then what's to say for cats like Furled Bracken and Stone Song, who were very much leaders of the Ancient group of cats we saw in Long Shadows and Sign of the Moon, and why aren't they entitled to a leader charart?

Is our blank only a Clan leader charart? If so, then why are all Clan leaders marked with "Leader" instead of "Clan Leader", when the leader rank itself is shown to be used elsewhere? Slash's group, Darktail's group (they'd also get a page, I think?????), Jingo's group, the Ancient cats, BloodClan, ect. There are multiple groups within the series that have a clear leader of their group, but they don't get anything special.

Right now I think we should think of status, not charart. What I'm thinking is that we have a leader, but maybe in the trivia it says they're not a Clan leader? Or maybe Leader (Unofficially), and officially can be a Clan? Idk I'm tired 14:30, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

They're tied together, and you can't talk about one without bringing up the other, Icy. =P And technically, cats like Slash, Darktail, Furled Bracken, and Stone Song aren't unofficial. They are called leaders, and multiple times at that. They're just not Clan leaders, which makes me think we need to redefine what a leader is and who does and doesn't count.

a leader is a leader, regardless of the group, they have the same job even if they don't have the same methods, the only real difference is the nine lives the clan leaders get, so they really should get some kind of rank acknowledgement. all in all it's just up to the wiki itself if we want to use the images for non clan cats or not. 14:35, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

I hate to say this, but maybe we could have a blank for non-clan leaders? But this is PC, and I think we can call them leaders (non-clan) or something like that. We need to acknowledge that they are leaders, but not Clan leaders. 14:51, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

They are most definitely leaders, but perhaps we could create a Non-Clan Leader rank/category for them? I do agree that each group probably should have it's own page, as said above.

There are so many examples of non-Clan leaders that I'm surprised this rank hasn't been brought in before.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:33, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

Comments?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:12, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

I think a leader is a leader regardless whether it is of a clan or another group because isn't a clan just a group? 21:21, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Have we reached a conclusion?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  06:22, April 18, 2016 (UTC)

It would seem so. Jaysnow (talk) 02:29, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Then what is it? Are we going to create a non Clan leader category? 15:21, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should have that and a rank too. We should rename leaders 'Clan Leaders' (because they are so often called that) then non-Clan leaders just 'leaders', because again that's what they are called in the books. They should be given a category and rank for it and the rest is up to PCA.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:37, May 7, 2016 (UTC)

Stealth, do you mean PCA, or PC? Because if we give them a rank, we do have to have a blank for it, because that's hardly doing it properly. All other ranks should have a blank, so if we decide to do this, know that a blank will be necessary, as it is considered an official rank on this wiki. We can't reuse the leader blanks that we currently have, as they are Clan leader blanks. But that's a PCA discussion, not PC. I don't know if anyone else is going to comment on this, and since there was at least six days between your comment and the last, Stealth, I think it's alright to go ahead and ask for a final call for comments.

I really don't see the need for a whole new leader blank. Can't we do what we did with the healer blank - tweak the leader? But then again that is for PCA. This is PC and we haven't even decided if it's official or not. 16:50, May 8, 2016 (UTC)

PCA. Yes I meant PCA sorry. Anymore comments for this? PC comments?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  02:12, May 12, 2016 (UTC)

Okay how will we do this? I think clan leaders should be called that, "Clan Leaders" and non-clan leaders should just be called "Leaders", because really that's what they are called in the books.Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  08:51, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, that sounds good, but maybe we shouldn't change the status box itself, and just keep it as Leader: Firestar, or Leader: Darktail? 14:41, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

anymore comments on this? 01:06, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

About 4 people have commented and agreed. How will we do this? I still say the same with my previous comment.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:40, August 19, 2016 (UTC)

I definitely agree with giving them a rank. I think that in the categories, we should label them as "Clan Leaders" and "Non-Clan Leaders" to avoid confusion. They're definitely distinct ranks, and calling just one of the groups simply as "leaders" and not the other would be confusing also, since leaders of both Clans and other groups are almost always referred to as just "leaders" in the books. However, in the infobox I believe they should both just be labeled as "leader" like Icy suggested. 23:55, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Yep I think that sounds good. Anymore comments?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:37, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with the decision on giving them the status. Perhaps it could be discussed on PCA to get a blank? --  00:24, September 1, 2016 (UTC)

I agree w the status though I just think we could use the same blank just w a different leader category. it's the same job, the only real difference is the nine lives. I mean we do use the same blanks for healers basically so meh 20:43, September 7, 2016 (UTC)

Oops. That's what I meant. Getting a blank as in having the leader blank. Sorry I wasn't clear :/ --  00:29, September 11, 2016 (UTC)

Charcat template
Alright, so, I've brought up to Skye, that in regards to the template you guys have now for the characters, he would like it to be re-vamped, so to speak. I've been learning some coding, and I've come up with this for your guys' new template. Skye really likes it, and I thought a more rounded look would look pretty nice on here. Plus, I got rid of the 'post-death residence' thing you guys had discussed on getting rid of a long while ago, I believe? Either way, I believe it looks pretty nice in comparison to the old, more squared look. I've kept the original colors, and kept the wording size. And if you guys have any more suggestions on what it should look like, I'd be happy to implement them into the template for you to see. <span style="">13:27 Thu Aug 2016

This looks beautiful Snow. I love it! All I'd say to change is rename "family" to "Kin"? Other than that it's perfect.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:07, August 25, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, I'll put that in and let you know when it's ready to view! And thanks, Stealth! It means alot :D <span style="">22:09 Thu Aug 2016

It's ready to view! I thought we could just keep the |familyt and |familyl for the kin/family widget. <span style="">22:10 Thu Aug 2016

Looks good to me! Do you have a test page laying around so we can see what it looks like? There are a couple character pages that will break the current template (like Gray Wing, for example), and the main issue is how it never looks the same from browser to browser.

I think I can fix that with some simple coding for different browsers. Also, I'll make a page and copy Gray Wing's page to it to show you guys. <span style="">02:14 Fri Aug 2016

Hmm... here's what it came up with. I put the family section as how it should look, but I believe that, maybe, if we make the text smaller, it should fix it? If not, I think I can find a way to fix it for every browser. <span style="">02:20 Fri Aug 2016

I think I figured out why it won't work on Chrome. Wikipedia's style sheets don't support Chrome very well, so it's always going to look weird on pages. So there's no fix there; just probably have to wait for Wikia to fix it. <span style="">02:31 Fri Aug 2016

I like the template overall, but the rounded corners on the sub-headers, like "Affiliations" really bugs me. Idk but cause of that I'm just going to be weird and say I'm against this because of that. I think those shouldn't be rounded tbh

I can un-round them? <span style="">13:17 Fri Aug 2016

Maybe make a different template that shows them un-rounded, so we can have a look at them both and compare.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:21, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I've created a separate template for the un-rounded corners. Here we have the rounded corners, and here is the straight sub-headers. Let me know what you guys think! <span style="">21:32 Fri Aug 2016

I definitely like the straight subheaders one, and I'd be in support of changing it to that version :)

I actually like the rounded heading much better than the square one.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:03, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

I prefer the rounded headings myself; it's nice to see a change in the template. The only thing is, the rest of our templates will have to match that. We can't have one in the same style while the others are still the old one. This includes the templates for PB, PW, and PR, as well as the navigation templates... which I have no issues changing. I think a fresh look could do the wiki some good.

I'd have no problem fixing those templates up as well if and when this gets approved :) <span style="">00:10 Sat Aug 2016

Can we possibly get some more comments on this? Just three people doesn't seem enough to be considered community consensus. <span style="">17:04 Wed Aug 2016

Yeah, I think a new charcat template would be good :) --  18:12, August 31, 2016 (UTC)

Can we have more comments, please?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:58, September 9, 2016 (UTC)

Whitetail (SC) ~ Silver Nomination
Pretty easy and minor character. Comments?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:00, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Don't forget to make the talk page. Also, are we sure that those quotes are appropriate? They just seem like typical battle-esque narrator quotes.

Updated Those are the only quotes I could find honestly. If others agree then I'll remove them.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:34, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

CBV?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:53, August 31, 2016 (UTC)

Sigh, but as I've said countless times before, not all articles should have quotes if there's nothing important or relevant about them. Narrator quotes are wonderful sometimes, but if they're just general quotes describing someone's actions in battle (if they're not significant, again) then what exactly is the point? I'll end up removing them in the future anyways, and there shouldn't need to be a "if others agree" with this.

Alright I've removed most of the quotes. Will the main quote do or should I just remove it altogether?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:31, August 31, 2016 (UTC)

Well, it just says her name.. so I'm not entirely sure what that has to do with her character, the plot, ect. Meh, while most of the time, something is better than nothing... there are cases, such as this, where nothing is actually a lot better.

Removed Re-CBV?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  05:17, September 1, 2016 (UTC)

Vote's up!<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:55, September 9, 2016 (UTC)

Trivia
I think with some trivias, (especially Firestar's) it is incredibly long and unorganised. I'm thinking we add subheadings, just to help keep them organised, like this. To me it's still a little messy so I'm experimenting with sub-sub headings, but it might be too much right now. So yeah what do you think? Subheadings for characters with huge trivias?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:31, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Thank the gods, someone suggested this. I'm all for it.

Yes. I'm definitely for adding sub-sections, it will make these long trivia sections so much easier to read. I think the sub-sub-sections may be a little too much (except for maybe on Firestar's page in particular), but I think adding just one level of sub-sections would really help. 00:06, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

I love this idea, Stealth! Although, I do have to say, I'd love it even more if--for the namely long trivia sections--had a hide/show option for said long sections. I'm pretty sure I could whip up a template for you guys on trivia as well, if needed? <span style="">00:16 Sat Aug 2016

I agree with Ivy, the sub-sections should definitely be added but maybe not too much more than that. I think the trivia sections don't need an additional template, however.

A sub section should be fine but we should also define what "incredibly long" trivia is. Like, would Graystripe count as well? Or someone else? 04:30, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

I think it would depend, wouldn't it? Are we going for number of trivia statements, or length? Because imo, I think if we're going for a number, between seven and ten would be acceptable, due to trivia being able to be long paragraphs or just short sentences. It would probably have to be looked at in a case-by-case point of view.

Yes I'd say it depends on amount of points and length. 7 points is a good bass point, but if the trivia has long sentences then it would still get it I'd say.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:30, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

Anymore comments?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:59, September 9, 2016 (UTC)

Jumper and Hoot's Descriptions
Their descriptions don't really match their appearances in the graphic novels. Not really surprising since it's pretty hard to tell the difference between them.

I studied closely on A Clan in Need, and the two cats are exactly the same except that one of them has an underbite. Right now our pages say it's Jumper, but looking at page 83, we see them stand together side-by-side. The one on the left is addressed as Jumper, and we can see the one on the right is the one with the underbite.

I think their descriptions need much editing. Considering also neither of them has a white ear, I think we have false information here. I will go through the books and double-check if their appearances change at all (which I kinda expect). I also think we should add to their trivia how they and Barley look so similar. I can only tell the difference between Barley and them by their BloodClan collars.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:02, August 31, 2016 (UTC)

Alright after a look-through of A Clan In Need and The Heart of a Warrior, this is what I got:

They first appear in Barley's dream where neither of them has an underbite. However, every time it's zoomed in close enough to the cats, the underbite is easily seen.

On page 83 of A Clan In Need as stated above, Hoot has an underbite since Jumper is seemingly distressed and the one talking, while Hoot just licks his paw.

On page 74 of Heart of a Warrior, Hoot whispers into Barley's ear but doesn't show an underbite. The picture is zoomed in enough but it may be missing because his head is a bit angled and facing to the side so it may have been too hard to show it.

So yeah, that's what I've gathered. Other appearances stay constant, so they always have a collar and always have the same black-and-white pattern exactly like Barley.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:20, August 31, 2016 (UTC)

I looked at that page, and it does not mention either cats' names. Also, on page 77 of The Heart of a Warrior, the cat with the underbite adresses the other one as Hoot, which means we can tell via process of elimination that the cat with the underbite is Jumper. I cannot find my copy of A Clan in Need to verify this, but from what I remember, it was never clear which cat was Snake (Hoot) and which was Ice (Jumper). However, I could be wrong with that last bit. 15:49, August 31, 2016 (UTC)

It did mention their names, only twice but it did mention their names where I stated above.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:00, September 9, 2016 (UTC)

Current ShadowClan cats rank
so for those who've read TAS, you'll know Darktail and co are now in charge of ShadowClan, rather like SkyClan. the only difference here is the ShadowClan cats are with them, and from what I can tell they're still considered ShadowClan in name, but all the other Clans seem to consider their rank as rogues? or at least ivypool did. so do you think it'd be right to give all current adult/apprentice ShadowClan cats rogue rank or no? just feel this needs to be discussed. 18:14, September 7, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should wait with this. It's implied at the end that some of the ShadowClan cats that parted with Rowanstar will come back to him when they came to their senses. Also, they are still ShadowClan, they didn't leave the Clan, they just let some rogues take the lead. I know it's a bad example, but when Sol took over ShadowClan he was also their leader and Blackstar even gave his name away, so technically they were all rogues at this time too. In my opinion, we should still separate Darktails cats as rogues and the ShadowClan cats as clan cats until we see how the whole thing develops. SuSusann (talk) 18:22, September 7, 2016 (UTC)

implied? if it's rowanstar saying they'll return it's not necessarily true, and no they didn't leave the clan. the point is it is still technically shadowclan, but it's shadowclan gone rogue (which is pretty similar to sol but that's for another discussion, I would think) and there is this:

"She could hear two ShadowClan cats approaching."

these cats are confirmed to be needletail and rain, so they're still thought of as shadowclan here. 18:37, September 7, 2016 (UTC)

I know its not necessarily true, but we can't be sure untill we read it in the next book. Ah I didn't pay attention to that sentence, sorry! Then I would say they all stay ShadowClan, the Clan cats and the rouges that joined now. SuSusann (talk) 18:42, September 7, 2016 (UTC)

Huh, never though about it this way. I always felt like they were a part of ShadowClan considering their affiliation, but that some were still warriors. ShadowClan has been under a few different similar-ish circumstances, too. I think that we should give them all rogue status, as they don't have a named deputy, and Darktail isn't really a leader as ordained by StarClan, and didn't show interest in following the warrior code. It does seem a bit extreme, but we could potentially change it back if something happens to contradict this in Shattered Sky later. Anyway, some cats like Spikefur are pretty much rogue at heart

I'm just getting stuff as I go along, in chapter 24 there's also this:

Twigpaw had been quiet since the ShadowClan rogues had cut ties with the other Clans.

make of it what you will. 21:11, September 7, 2016 (UTC)

If they're called rogues, then I think we should use that. Cats have been called rogues before and gotten images. They're not considered real ShadowClan cats by cats like Rowanstar or Tawnypelt, and giving them rogue statues would comply with canon and the information that's said in the story.

so rogue rank (and images) for the charcat, but still listed under shadowclan since they appear to still be using shadowclan as a name for now? or rogue and rogue? 20:26, September 11, 2016 (UTC)

For affiliation, would these cats get one of under "Darktail's Group", as well? I know some of the cats in "Slash's Group" had that in their affiliations, and this seems like a bit of a similar case.

Silt ~ Silver Nomination
Tell me if I missed some appearances toward the end of the book (I'm not finished reading yet) but her name didn't appear in the e-book search after chapter 13, so I don't think she was seen again. <span style="">02:56 Thu Sep 8

Roach ~ Silver Nomination
There didn't seem anything that would be good for a main quote, so I didn't add one. Comments? <span style="">03:13 Thu Sep 8

Nettle (VS) ~ Silver Nomination
<span style="">03:31 Thu Sep 8

October FA
Alright any suggestions? We could do something from the list, I think we do need to clear it up some time, most articles on that list deserve the FA. I personally like Shaded Moss or Poppydawn most.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:06, September 9, 2016 (UTC)

I think Shaded Moss sounds great. <span style="">23:10 Fri Sep 9

Agreed ^^^

Ahh, I love Shaded Moss. He's an excellent choice with a well-written article.

Cypresspaw ~ Silver Nomination
I think when she says that she never imagined so many cats would be there could be the main quote, or you could add a dialogue in a quotes section with that and the current main quote. I feel like it kinda describes her. <span style="">23:46 Sat Sep 10

Updated page number for the quote would be appreciated since the dialogue template is saying "page chapter 23" which looks weird, but I've lent out my copy of TAS so I can't fix it.

Sorry to intrude, but I don't believe the main quote should be the minor quote as well, if that makes sense at all? <span style="">01:25, 9/11/2016

I've seen that in articles before. As long as it's not the main quote that is repeated without any other dialogue I think it's fine. <span style="">01:42 Sun Sep 11

I'll probably keep it then, but can add more context to the dialogue if needed.

Harekit, Dapplekit (VS), Gorsekit (VS), Softkit
So here I want to question the validity of their existence.

A) [Kate first revealed] that Lizardtail and Lakeheart were parents of Wavepaw and Cypresspaw.

B) [Kate said] she changed the names of them (Dapple, Hare, Gorse, Soft), and suggests that it was a mistake that might've been made by the publishers when they made their allegiance list.

C) [Kate then agrees] when a fan says LakeXLizard = Cypress and Wave, and no other kits.

My thoughts are that maybe it was a type when Mistystar announced Lakeheart had four kits. So yeah, opinions?