Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Fernpaw (TAQ), Ferntail, and Featherpelt
Bit of a conundrum here, guys. We have three different cats, but only two of them actually appear.

Ferntail is apparently supposed to be the kit of Sedgewhisker and Emberfoot, and Crowfeather's apprentice, as seen on Kate's blog. She isn't shown in the allegiance list for The Apprentice's Quest, both the iBooks preview and the official release.

Featherpelt appears, though, and she has the same description as Ferntail, but she is, without a doubt, the Featherpaw from Bramblestar's Storm, and one of Crowfeather's apprentices. There isn't anything doubting the canonocity of this character whatsoever... but it is interesting that she shares the same exact description and mentor as "Ferntail".

There's also a Fernpaw, and this she-cat has a totally different description. She's a dark brown she-cat, an allegiance-only character, and doesn't show up in the list we got from Kate.

What exactly should we do about this? We can't really add anything for Ferntail, since she doesn't exist as of the book release. Should we just delete Ferntail's page? Given that Ferntail is also listed as a kit of Sedgewhisker and does have littermates... this doesn't quite make sense.

We can't just have an empty article, though.

Add Ferntail to the minor chacter page? Inconsistencies. Great editors, Warriors. Just great. I'm actually getting seriously tired of all of these inconsistencies 03:31, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

But Ferntail doesn't exist anymore, so she's technically not a character. I don't think we can put her on the minor characters page.

Trivia? 14:51, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

I think it should definitely be trivia, because for example Jayclaw was originally named Jaywing(it's in his trivia), but it had been changed since Kate's blog on the allegiances.

Ferntail was in an early version of the allegiances, of course there will be some changes. I'd say delete because they do not appear in the final version.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:18, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

No, I still think they should be in the trivia. They were mentioned, after all. 22:29, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

I agree, it shoud be in their trivia, but they should be categorized as mentioned characters. Or, of course, Kate could be asked since I think she made the draft? But imo, the page shouldn't be deleted, it should just be in their trivia that they got drafted out of the final copy. 23:03 Mon Apr 4

I'm not sure it makes sense for the pages to be kept, though? They'd just be empty and sitting there. Characters who get changed have their old names serving as a redirect; such as Troutfin, when the name was changed to Milkfur... a trivia statement wouldn't hurt, just like I did for Stonewing and Jayclaw. I'm only asking this time because there seems to be a bit of a mixup with the apprentice/general list, and not just a name swap.

Have we reached a conclusion? 21:10, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

Well I was just looking and it is said that Fernpaw (TAQ) is the one that's Crowfeather's apprentice. — Minkclaw River is Beauty, Beauty is Everything. 15:56, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

I think that we should just leave Ferntail to the trivia and probably delete her page, and put Featherpelt and Fernpaw in the trivia as well. 15:59, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

I think that the trivia for Ferntail should also be in the trivia for The Apprentice's Quest as she was mentioned in Allegiances for TAQ on BlogClan.

So are ew going to do this? 03:32, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Poking this one more time. What is our conclusion on this? 01:52, May 5, 2016 (UTC)

Unoffical leaders (SPOILERS)
Sorry I should've brought it up with PC prior to doing anything. Okay so unofficial leaders, I know that this has been discussed before but in Darktail's case, he was heavily referred to a leader so many times Alderpaw was just like "why isn't he called Darkstar you dumdums". He refers to himself as a leader several times, and they drove SkyClan out and he is the leader of the rogues technically, and they all listen to him and stuff like that. Does that make him a leader, or should we put it as unofficialy? Same thing goes for Jingo, by the way. 14:21, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

A leader is a leader, regardless. At the same time, it would also be appropriate to clearly define what the leader rank is. Is it only a Clan rank, and if it is, then why are these cats clearly labeled as leaders of their own group? If so, then what's to say for cats like Furled Bracken and Stone Song, who were very much leaders of the Ancient group of cats we saw in Long Shadows and Sign of the Moon, and why aren't they entitled to a leader charart?

Is our blank only a Clan leader charart? If so, then why are all Clan leaders marked with "Leader" instead of "Clan Leader", when the leader rank itself is shown to be used elsewhere? Slash's group, Darktail's group (they'd also get a page, I think?????), Jingo's group, the Ancient cats, BloodClan, ect. There are multiple groups within the series that have a clear leader of their group, but they don't get anything special.

Right now I think we should think of status, not charart. What I'm thinking is that we have a leader, but maybe in the trivia it says they're not a Clan leader? Or maybe Leader (Unofficially), and officially can be a Clan? Idk I'm tired 14:30, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

They're tied together, and you can't talk about one without bringing up the other, Icy. =P And technically, cats like Slash, Darktail, Furled Bracken, and Stone Song aren't unofficial. They are called leaders, and multiple times at that. They're just not Clan leaders, which makes me think we need to redefine what a leader is and who does and doesn't count.

a leader is a leader, regardless of the group, they have the same job even if they don't have the same methods, the only real difference is the nine lives the clan leaders get, so they really should get some kind of rank acknowledgement. all in all it's just up to the wiki itself if we want to use the images for non clan cats or not. 14:35, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

I hate to say this, but maybe we could have a blank for non-clan leaders? But this is PC, and I think we can call them leaders (non-clan) or something like that. We need to acknowledge that they are leaders, but not Clan leaders. 14:51, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

They are most definitely leaders, but perhaps we could create a Non-Clan Leader rank/category for them? I do agree that each group probably should have it's own page, as said above.

There are so many examples of non-Clan leaders that I'm surprised this rank hasn't been brought in before.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:33, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

Comments?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:12, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

I think a leader is a leader regardless whether it is of a clan or another group because isn't a clan just a group? 21:21, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Have we reached a conclusion?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  06:22, April 18, 2016 (UTC)

It would seem so. Jaysnow (talk) 02:29, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Then what is it? Are we going to create a non Clan leader category? 15:21, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

Character Ages
Alright, so, I had a nice piece of information sent to me on tumblr last week, and I figure that it's kinda important, since it revolves around the character ages on the articles. Now, some of these appear to be right...but others don't make a lick of sense? tldr the image explains what I'm trying to say... but I really think we need to rethink when we add ages to character pages, because something's not right here. Do we try and fix these mistakes (as there are quite a few), or do we try something else instead?

I think we need this general rule: The ages will only change when a new book comes out and nothing else. I think partially the reason people are mixed up because maths is not the easiest in the world and it's hard to tell how much time passes in books sometimes. I think yes fix the mistakes and be very strict about ages being changed. Maybe only a certain few users (like the charart being changed on the character pages) are allowed to edit these ages. Might be a little hard to reinforce at first but people will eventually get it.Stealth f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:36, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Stealthfire makes a good point. Jaysnow (talk) 00:37, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

I can reread the entire series and pinpoint the characters' almost exact ages by taking notes.

Let's try to fix all these mistakes. I know seeing the characters' ages helps me out a ''ton. ''Why don't we use the Events Timeline for a reference when we're done fixing it up? 00:42, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Why not just start over with the ages? Delete them from the character articles for now, rework the system (and when and why the ages are updated, just like Stealth said), and then put them back on the character pages? We could always use a PC subpage or something along those lines to have the approx. ages and the evidence that proves it?

I agree; I know that the DTC timeline is being made, and I think that would make it much easier to track the DTC cats' ages when that is finalized. For the other cats too, though, I agree that it would be a good idea to just clear it for now and add it back in later when the ages are updated. <span style="">02:10 Thu Apr 7

I think on a page ( timeline page or character ages) we should have a rough moon time scale. ie how many moons have past since Tallstar was made an apprentice till when was Bluestars made leader. This would help us get an accurate time span. 10:44, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should take them off for now, fix them, then put them back on. There's so many characters, and it'd be good to take them off temporarily to make sure we don't forget anyone.

I think it's better to leave them just on (for now) and make a subpage to put down notes per book and then change the ages for each specific character. It would probably be best to start with Into the Wild, since I will be reading the book shortly.

Have we reached a conclusion? R(Right now I'm working on a timeline so maybe I can help with this.) 21:10, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to poke this. 15:53, April 18, 2016 (UTC)

Have we reached a conclusion or no? 17:08, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

It's seems to me that everybody agrees that the ages should be taken off, then added back on later when the timeline is fixed. <span style="">18:41 Sat Apr 23

I'm not sure, it doesn't really seem like that. Does everyone agree that we should take the ages off until the timeline is constructed? I heavily disagree because it could be a while until the timeline is constructed. 00:45, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should keep them on, it's pointless to me to spend a load of time removing the ages, only to add them back on later. We should just keep them cause yeah, the timeline could take a really long time

Just remove the bit of coding that makes the ages show on the template. There, problem solved. It can be readded when the ages are fixed.

No problem not solved. The ages shouldn't be removed at all. They'll be fixed but they shouldn't be removed. Who knows how long it will be until the ages are fixed? I agree with Spooky. 19:01, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

why should they remain when they;re not right? it;s just giving out false information and I don;t see why other false information is rmeoved but this gets to stay, lol. 19:23, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Because right now they're really helpful even if they're off. They're not even that much off, it's approximate and it IS going to be fixed and I hope sooner rather than later. I just think it's very inconvenient to take it off when someone obviously worked hard to find it. We'll fix it. 01:21, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Icy, I was talking about on the template itself. It's very easy to remove, and since they're wrong, they shouldn't be on character articles. Just because people worked hard, doesn't mean it's not wrong and shouldn't be fixed. It can be added back when it's fixed, but for now, many of those ages are completely and totally wrong and should not be reflected on the article. We remove incorrect statements all the time, and this is one of them. It's not inconvenient at all; it's removing the wrong information until the correct things can be added.

I know you're talking about the template. However I think it's unnecessary as of now because the timeline might not even be complete. 10:17, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Lightflame has agreed to help me with the character ages and I have a template that will help. For now, we can hide the ages as Cloudy said (if you all agree). Would you be willing to do that, Cloudy? 15:21, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

I'll hide it once the conclusion has properly concluded.

Juniperpaw ~ Silver Nomination
Super, super short character

The cites for the family section, just the BlogClan allegiances isn't really sufficient. Just copy the cites from Dawnpelt's page and those will do.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:50, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

UpdatedI've added all the ones on Dawnpelt's page, but not all of them were there so I left those with Kate's Blog still as the cite. Is that okay, or should I do something else?

It should all be there. Which do you mean? It won't be exact, the family members will be different to Dawnpelt but the cites, names, living or not etc should be exact same.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:42, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

I did Ctrl + F and some weren't in Dawnpelt's family section? Idk, but i couldn't find some members

Check pages of the other cats. If they are not related in any way there then just remove them. I think most of these are false as I'm not even sure how Juniperpaw can be related to Brindleface and I have a relatively good memory of ThunderClan's biggest family trees.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:35, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Remove them; Juniperpaw is not related to Brindleface in a way that we have citations for. It's not possible unless there's something that we find a cite for later on down the road.

Updated They've been removed. I did keep the BC cite for Alderpaw and Sparkpaw, because I can trace their lineage to Juniperpaw through Bramblestar and all

Comments before vote? 15:09, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

Violetkit ~ Silver Nomination
I think she should because her TAQ section is finished and she has a fair amount of quotes.

Foxstep And now I can fly...

She has no quotes. Can you add some? 00:39, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Sure

Foxstep And now I can fly...

Also some points: The 3 shouldn't be 3 - it should be three. Can you also add why the leaders are arguing? And I know Alderpaw says something about her after she's taken away, so maybe can you add that? And what three older kits are raised alongside Violetkit? 00:47, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

The first part of her section is detailed too, so it deserves a nomination. Not just saying it because I wrote the first part. ; ) Jaysnow (talk) 01:03, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Uh, what was that for? It's all detailed. If you're going to comment, comment for suggestions. 01:09, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Mhm. I actaully have to disagree to some point, I think the last few paragraphs need a good deal of expansion. Compared to her sibling Twigkit, the article looks short whn they should be relatively the same...

I completely agree with Spooky. Especially considering that Violetkit will probably become a major character, I don't think that the detail in the last few paragraphs is near adequate. <span style="">02:43 Mon Apr 25

I completed her page. Should any improvements be made? Jaysnow (talk) 02:29, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Quotes need to be added.

I've looked through the book, and there aren't that many quotes that describe her character. She's still a kit. Jaysnow (talk) 03:02, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

I actually have a few that may help.

"No! Don't take me! I want Lilyheart!" - Violetkit

"Why are the leaders fighting?" - Violetkit

"That's right, all you need to know is that you are very special" - Alderpaw

Those don't really say anything about her character, except for maybe the last one. Jaysnow (talk) 04:50, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Can you go through the last paragraph and get rid of all the fragmented sentences? There's quite a few

Actually, yes, it does represent her character Please add those. 19:27, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

Still working?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  05:28, May 2, 2016 (UTC)

Darktail ~ Silver Nomination
I really do not like him. At all. Credits to the one(s) who added the quotes, comments? <span style="">02:39 Mon Apr 25

He deserves a silver nomination. Jaysnow (talk) 00:59, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Please don't comment if you don't have anything to say. Also, there are some typing errors, correct those? And maybe you could minimize the amount of "Laters". 18:55, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Updated <span style="">01:00 Wed Apr 27

Comments before vote? 15:10, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

Dawn of the Clans characters and StarClan
So, I noticed this while I was on Kate's blog the other day, and Kate agreed to all the DOTC cats being in StarClan; but this was only while being prompted by a fan. So, what do you all think? Jaysnow (talk) 21:46, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

It's here if you scroll down. Yeah, idk what to do, earlier today someone recommended I put this up on PC but I forgot so...

Actually if you click older comments you'll see it, cause it got shoved back I guess

I disagree. She said "I'm not sure" and even when the fan prompted her she didn't give an actual response. 23:39, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

No, in the end she said "Yes :)" after a fan promted her. That's an actual response, hence why it deserves a PC discussion. Jaysnow (talk) 23:47, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Ah, I see, sorry didn't catch that. Then that probably applies although I still am hesitant due to the fact that it looks like the fan forced her into answering. 23:56, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

That's true, and that's why I was kinda hesitant to bring it up because that's what it seemed like. Any other comments? Jaysnow (talk) 23:57, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

I agree. But haven't we already put DOTC Cats in StarClan?

No they're not confirmed StarClan yet. She could've said no, but she said yes so this is a good discussion to have.

Personally, I think it's a valid answer now, though. She's one of the authors, and she said yes, regardless to how many times a fan promted her. If the author said yes directly, then it means it's true. Anyone else? Jaysnow (talk) 00:24, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

It's a valid answer, even if it was a bit forced. We can deal with it if she takes it back later, and only if. But right now, it's a valid cite.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:45, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. ^^ Jaysnow (talk) 01:02, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

I don't know... I don't think it counts as valid, because it really was forced. Besides, she said yes to a question asking if it the ansewr was yes, so she didn't really say yes directly to the question. <span style="">01:15 Tue Apr 26

can you stop asking "anyone else?" or "anymore comments?" this is a discussion that's been up for one day, and hasn't had a course of inactivity I think it was forced, yes, because a fan pressured her into saying it, but I still believe it's a cite. However, I might be wrong. 01:20, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

I know this isn't helping but I looked over the comments even closer. Did anyone notice this? It was confusing when the user said "So is that a yes, lol?" Maybe Kate didn't know she was meaning "Is that a yes" to be the confirmation of DOTC Cats going to StarClan. Or maybe she herself didn't mean that. Seeing closer, I realized Kate told her two times to use her imagination. And that's what she usually does. I haven't seen any user pressure Kate ever before. Maybe Kate said yes because she felt forced to do so, and to keep the discussion from going. Not to mention, the user was sort of rude to Kate about it too, which may be another reason she might have tried to prevent the continuation of the conversation. It's a great deal that it isn't true, but could be a possibility.

I don't think so, but that's my opinion. Jaysnow (talk) 02:46, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

It was forced, so I don't think it counts at all. Given that she was pressured into saying it, we shouldn't use it, given it's very possible it could have been asked for more chararts...which seems to be commonplace these days. I'm against using it, because people have a habit of pestering the authors for information they want to be canon.

Are things normally decided with majority on here, or? Jaysnow (talk) 05:02, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

In this case, it needs to be decided whether or not that counts as a legitimate source. She said to the question that she has no definitive answer, and she even said to use your imagination, and the comment even said "if they were good"... and in this case, we cannot assume all cats were good, save for the ones we know were bad.

I'll admit it was heavily pressured, but no one forced Kate to write yes. She could've said no, or kept the fan guessing, and so I think as of now it would stand as a cite

This is very controversial which is why I thought I should put it up. But I agree with Spooky. Even if she felt pressured, she could have typed "no" instead of "yes" in the end. I think it still stands. Jaysnow (talk) 15:31, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

So what makes "yes" the final answer? That being said, the question itself was "no definitive answer", and given that it would be an assumption to use this cite for any character, it can't be used. We do not know what happened after Moth Flight's Vision; maybe some characters turned rogue, or didn't believe in the spirit cats. It's very possible that something else could have happened, and unless a specific character is named to be in StarClan, this is way too vague to be properly used.

That makes sense, too. I kinda agree. And no, this wasn't used for chararts because Snowdapple/Winter is not a member of this Wiki anymore, and she was the one who asked Kate. I can understand your frustration. Jaysnow (talk) 15:49, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Again, who makes the final decisions with these things? Is it by majority? Jaysnow (talk) 00:55, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it's majority. 01:03, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

I changed my mind again, I think it's a valid cite. That's my final answer. Jaysnow (talk) 01:06, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

This is still tricky. Kate goes: "Ha! I like to make you use your own imagination instead of mine! 😀", and Winter asks if it's a yes, and Kate says yes. Does that mean she says yes to your own imagination? Or if they go to StarClan or not? And we don't know if all the cats are good or bad, as it would still be an assumption. Even if we do decide the cite is correct, we don't know if any of these cats are good, because all of a sudden Violet Dawn could suddenly kill three cats in a book we haven't read. 15:25, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

Red Claw ~ Silver Nomination
Credit to people who helped with the POS section

Nice job on writing all that Spooky! :) Could you explain what is happening in the story at the beginning of the sections for these parts in MFV: @ the beginning, when they are searching for Slate's kits; when Moth Flight is at the Gathering with Micah after leaving the Clans and seeing StarClan; when Moth Flight is going to get bark for Rocky can you explain more about Micah (did he find her in SkyClan or did he come with her to Skyclan); at Micah's burial (so like briefly explain his death). Also, could you add some sort of 'later' or 'afterwards' or something for the paragraph where she goes to help Tiny Branch? And in the 16th paragraph, it says that Wind Runner comes to save Spotted Fur and Moth Flight, but Spotted Fur hadn't been mentioned earlier- can you explain how he came with her to SkyClan?

At the end of the MFV section, can you mention how Acorn Fur finally chose being a MC over having Red Claw as a mate (I remember she had some sort of talk about it with Half Moon...)
 * In the 15th paragraph, "He adds that he's been talking to Red Claw, who told him that he and Willow Tail go back a long way. Clear Sky adds that Willow Tail has been spreading half-truths and stirring up trouble to settle a score that has nothing to do with the Clans." "adds" sounds redundant imo.

Sorry for that super long list -.- <span style="">01:31 Sun May 1
 * In this sentence, "Willow Tail counters meowing that he brought the dogs into camp, and Red Claw asks her if she thought he did it on purpose. Willow Tail replies that of course he led the dogs to camp, since he lured them there." I don't think it's necessary to say 'led the dogs to camp' in the 2nd sentence since it's said in the 1st sentence too, maybe say 'of course he did' instead.
 * In the 4th paragraph of PoS, I'm kind of confused if it is Clear Sky explaining what happened with Red Claw at a Gathering, or if it is just written in past-tense.
 * This sentence in PoS section: "Red refuses to, insisting Clear Sky is a good leader and Nettle doesn't know since he never had Slash as a leader." 'leader' sounds redundant.

Updated lel. Okay so I fixed most of the stuff, and yeah the 4th paragraph of the POS is him explaining past events so some is in past-tense. Anyways, I added context for everything except for how Spotted Fur got to SkyClan b/c that has nothing to do with him so I don't think it should be in his article

Smokepaw (SotC) ~ Silver Nomination
/shrugs One sentence.

I knew he was in a different field guide. Smokepaw is mentioned in Secrets of the Clans, page 61. While the page is still valid, since we don't know who Smokepaw is, I'm going to move it to the original book they came from.

Maybe link 'the water' to The Lake, because that is what it means by 'water'? <span style="">01:49 Thu May 5

Updated

June FA
I know it's early honestly but this makes me feel better because school is almost over. Right, how about Sunstar for this month? I don't know, I was just reading BP and looked up on his article and it's really well written. Or does anyone else have any ideas? Throw them out, I'm not quite sure. 01:38, May 5, 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure about Sunstar, looking at his BP section, it feels as if there should be more written, I think he would have appeared more than that. But you said we could give suggestions, how about Ashfur? <3 His article looks pretty good. Riverstar is also an idea because he is really important but hasn't been featured yet and his article is also done. Imo, Rock wouldn't be a bad idea either. Just suggestions though. <span style="">01:46 Thu May 5

I actually like Riverstar, or maybe Thunderstar? 01:52, May 5, 2016 (UTC)

Oh Thunderstar hasn't been featured before either? Then I think that he would actually be better. <span style="">01:54 Thu May 5

YAY THUNDER! I will never call him Thunderstar he's always little Thunder to me :)