Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Family Trees
I was getting too focused on family trees on the other topic so I decided to move it here.

There's been talk of having smaller family trees that are more focused on individual cats rather than lines. This makes sense for cats like Sandgorse. He only has three family members, but has been given a very large tree. If we are happy to take on managing more trees, I can easily create new smaller trees from the already existing bigger trees.

For certain cats however, we need to think about who to include on their trees. Lionblaze for example has a humongous number of family members, and cats like Flashnose have quite a lot of descendants, so we need to decide which family members to add to their tree.

I've done a little experimenting, and have made a draft for a Lionblaze/Jayfeather/Hollyleaf tree. Basically, I've shown their immediately family, grandkits/grandnieces/nephews (as well as half-nieces), aunts/uncles, first cousins & their kits, grandparents, grand-aunts/uncles and great-grandparents. A little bit messy in this example as Firestar/Sandstorm have a lot of siblings, but it works.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  04:24, April 20, 2019 (UTC)

I think this makes the most sense honestly, especially as the family trees have gotten more convoluted. I think adding the immediate family and those you listed would make sense. I like how on the draft you made you didn't include mates that didn't really matter, only direct descendants. It makes the family tree look more sleek and easier to follow imo. 05:08, June 14, 2019 (UTC)

The current family trees are definitely large, and I do think they could be chopped to be a more reasonable size. I like the draft you made; looks great! 01:20, June 20, 2019 (UTC)

Any other comments?

I have to ask what everybody thinks about what we think about how many descendants to show? For example, Daisytoe probably has the most descendants (about 7 generations) so I'm wondering what should the 'cap' be exactly? I know we should at least go grandkits as that relationship is acknowledged in the books, but what about after that?

I'd also like to ask about distant ancestors, like Windstar or Cloudstar. Should we show their descendants? And if so, should we show all (confirmed) descendants, or cap it as well?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:56, July 9, 2019 (UTC)

id love to stop after great grandkits/great grandparents, bc lets be real, youre very unlikely to know either of those because youd be too old or young, not to mention the relation after that kinda drifts off to irrelevance. as for the distant ancestors, i think theres enough currently that we can just lump sum them into one thing bc its not too drastically long. 00:04, July 10, 2019 (UTC)

Alright I've updated my draft. I have added Daisytoe tree with as many relatives as I can fit, then the cut version you suggested Trollsky.

I've also added what the Windstar and Cloudstar tree would look like. Windstar tree is okay, but since we are up to Crowfeather as directly said to be a descendant, I gave an example of a cut tree up to his generation.

Cloudstar tree I cannot do in full due to Willowpelt having too many descendants. We need to go to at least Tigerstar's generation due to confirmation of his descendants (generation 2), and I'd say we can do the generation after, but no more. I'll add examples of each to the draft so you see what I mean.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  02:45, July 10, 2019 (UTC)

Any more comments? 19:05, July 26, 2019 (UTC)

Minor character Pages Rules
I am getting very confused on what's going on the minor character pages. I'm being told of new rules that have not been discussed or mentioned on the talk pages? I'm also being told contradicting statements on what these rules actually are.

So I think it's best we get together and discuss what all the rules of the MC pages are, now that we have been really working on them. I would really appreciate if we all give our opinion on this, cause right now it's just a few of us editing the pages.

These are the current rules listed on the talk page/s:
 * Only very minor characters with unspecified names are added to this page. If you think a character should have a page of their own, please bring it up on PC's talk page.
 * The Characters are to be named as close as to they are named in the books as possible.
 * A Character is to be put under the appropriate book. If the minor character appears or is mentioned in separate books, put them under the arc they appear in, the book they appear in the most or bring it up on PC's talk page.
 * Each character is allowed one quote using the main quote template, only if an appropriate quote can be found.

(Note: we'll have to edit the wording of the 3rd rule now they are on separate pages)

These are I guess 'ghost rules' that I've come across/been disputed that we should officially add to the rules (please let me know if I miss any or got it completely wrong!):


 * If it is obvious who the cat actually is, such as having the exact same description and position as a known character, they are considered that character.
 * Characters must have some sort of significance. This can be having kin, a speaking role, or performing an action. They cannot hang around in the background.
 * For manga cats, this means they are spoken about and not just make an appearance (I think is the general rule??)

Thanks for reading that wall of text! I would really appreciate if we can all discuss this. Right now it's becoming really difficult and frustration for me to edit the minor characters pages, because I have no idea what's allowed, what's not allowed and I'm kinda getting scared of being yelled at. I know I've already annoyed some people with some characters I've added I admit looking at them now it's was pretty stupid ><. I'm very sorry about that.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:24, June 10, 2019 (UTC)

I was always under the impression that if we can trace it to being a certain cat, though they're not named it can be leveled off as that character, usually based on their descriptions. I removed some characters from Night Whispers since at the time, it can be leveled down to one cat or between a few.

04:12, June 14, 2019 (UTC)

A good chunk of the characters seen on the minor characters pages can be narrowed down using logic to a cat that already exists. The original purpose of this page was for cats who didn't already exist, or that we cannot possibly pair them with a character that we already have a page for. Not being named shouldn't be a qualification for this, since sometimes we can actually chalk them up to being a certain cat using a description or scenes from other books. I also don't think the titles need to be as close to the phrasing in the book as possible- then we get redundant, and quite frankly, ridiculous section titles that make almost no sense.

Some of the cats' descriptions are a bit out-there too. We don't need to document that they have claws, sharp claws, round eyes, ect. They're cats. Unless they are a special circumstance character, such as Rose, we don't need to list everything that basically makes them a cat. There are quite a few entries on this page that I take issue with, because I feel it's really deviating from the intended purpose of the page. ​

Since apparently this was never finished talking about, I'd also like to say that I don't think one-offs should be mentioned here either, especially if there's nothing known about them. You'd basically be repeating information for the heading, the history, ect..and it just looks silly. If they physically appear, I could maybe see that, since we'd also have a description... but cats like 'Finchflight's apprentice' or 'Jessy's mom' don't make sense to really add at this point since we heard one thing about them, and it wasn't even a proper appearance, just an off-hand mention that doesn't amount to anything.

There also bears the question of when we can add cats. I've seen people add Curlfeather's kits to the list, despite only being mentioned once. Given that we have full allegiance lists now, perhaps we should wait and see if they appear in a book or two and then entertain the idea of adding them? Adding them right away doesn't make sense to me and just seems like an easy edit. Especially knowing they'll probably get articles of their own within a couple books. ​

Concur with above. The page should really be used for characters we don't know who they are, excluding the one-offs that honestly have no significance other than a mention. Listening them on the said character's page is fine, but I don't think they deserve their own segment on the minor characters. As for when to add them, I think it should be a case-by-case thing; for Curlfeather's kits, since we're only on book one of TBC, I think it's safe to assume they'll show up eventually in the allegiances. It's too early to put them on the minor characters page imo when they'll most likely appear soon. If it were say, random warriors with a description we cannot match to anyone else in the Clan, then they can be added pretty much whenever. 21:52, July 13, 2019 (UTC)

Curlfeather's kits should definitely wait to be added to the page since we've still got five books left in this series. I'm sure they'll pop up somewhere eventually. I think we should be using this for characters who have a bit of significance who just don't have enough known about them to warrant their own page. One-offs shouldn't be listed, unless they actually had a bit of significance. I agree we can for sure narrow down a lot of these cats to ones who already exist if we use some logic. 01:12, July 14, 2019 (UTC)

Any more comments? 19:05, July 26, 2019 (UTC)

Goosefeather ~ Gold Nomination
Wrote the main page, and added the novellas for history. 19:34, July 27, 2019 (UTC)

Frecklewish links to the wrong Frecklewish. -- 22:17, July 27, 2019 (UTC)

Fixed. 22:30, July 27, 2019 (UTC)

I think, and this is a bit of a unique case, that the infobox Living/Dead should list out each of the Supers and Novellas he's in, since there's not terribly many, and he's barely in the main arcs at all, and is just from those two sectors and only the earlier ones, so it couldn't hurt

Fixed. 01:00, July 28, 2019 (UTC)

Breeze That Rustles the Leaves ~ Silver Nomination
02:05, July 30, 2019 (UTC)

CBV? 01:11, August 5, 2019 (UTC)

Feather of Flying Hawk ~ Silver Nomination
02:05, July 30, 2019 (UTC)

CBV? 01:11, August 5, 2019 (UTC)

Skystar ~ Gold Nomination
Wrote up Shadowstar's Life history, finished Moth Flight's Vision, and organized the main page. 23:15, July 30, 2019 (UTC)

I'd think in the short summary it would be worth mentioning his role in HJ, plus removing that comma after Gray Wing. -- 23:19, July 30, 2019 (UTC)

Fixed, and I think I found the right comma. 23:34, July 30, 2019 (UTC)

Should Hollyleaf count as Breezepelt's victim?
Should Breezepelt be credited as an indirect killer of Hollyleaf? Tigerstar is still credited with Bluestar's death despite being quite loose. When Ivypool attampted to prevent Breezpelt fighting his own clanmates, she's discovered by Thistleclaw and Hawkfrost to be a traitor. Beyond this quote, Breezpelt makes no further interactions with Ivypool, even after she's dragged away to undoubtfully be executed. Instead of saving her, Breezepelt leaves, aware that his allies will kill her:

“No!” As Breezepelt reared up to attack a WindClan warrior, Ivypool launched herself at him. Smashing into Breezepelt’s flank, she sent him flying. “You can’t fight for the Dark Forest!” “Are you crazy?” Breezepelt struggled free and stared at her. “This is what we’ve been training for!” “But you can’t believe that this is right!” (When Breezepelt disappears) Suddenly claws raked Ivypool’s cheek. Pain shot through her and she staggered sideways. Thistleclaw loomed over her, his lip curled to show long, yellow teeth. “Traitor!” “I’m no traitor!” Ivypool hissed. “I’ve been loyal to my Clan all along! I only came to the Dark Forest to find out what you were planning!” Her heart froze as Hawkfrost appeared behind Thistleclaw’s shoulder. Then Snowtuft landed beside her, his eyes darkening with hate. “We won’t fight for you either!” Birchfall flung himself at a Dark Forest tabby. Applefur lunged for a ragged tom. “I fight for the Clans!” Rage flared in Hawkfrost’s gaze. “Then we shall kill you first, before we destroy your wretched Clans!” - Last Hope, Chapter 25  (Possable Cite)

Which coincides with his early promise to get revenage on Ivypool for Antpelt's secend death:

Breezepelt: “What happened to Antpelt? Did. . . did you kill him again?”

Ivypool:“It was necessary, In the end, my loyalty was greater than his."

Breezpelt:“We may be in the same Clan here, but I am not your Clanmate,” he snarled. “You will be punished for this. Wait and see.” - Forgotten warrior, Chapter 18

This requires Hollyleaf to do it instead, ulimately leading to her death. Breezpelt: Was alined with Hollyleaf's direct killers, was his target anyways as Leafpool's kit and he celebrated her death: "He flicked his tail triumphantly toward Hollyleaf’s body. “She’s dead; now it’s your turn, Lionblaze.", Last Hope Chapter 26 (Possable Cite) Mellowix (talk) 15:09, July 31, 2019 (UTC)

I personally think you're reading too much into the text and making assumptions. I re-read that section and it does not mention Breezepelt ever leaving the scene, nor implying he left Ivypool and Hollyleaf to fend for themselves. He kinda just disappears after Ivypool tries to reason with him.

As for Bluestar, Tigerstar was the one who brought the dogs into ThunderClan's territory, and the dogs was one of the many reasons she died. 17:34, July 31, 2019 (UTC)

Too many assumptions, so no by me.

Agreed with above. ^^ -- 01:19, August 2, 2019 (UTC)

As per Vec, I think it's reaching a bit... whereas with Tigerstar, we knew he was directly responsible due to us knowing he's the one who brought the dogs to the forest.

Blossomkit
Been mulling about this, but is it safe to assume Blossomkit (ShC) and Blossomkit (OT) are the same cat? Both are white kits with the same cause of death around the same time period. I know that was an old Su cite, but the family tree confirms Dawncloud's two kits she mentioned as dying in battle as Swampkit and Blossomkit. For the other Blossomkit, Rock mentions she died in battle under Brokenstar's rule. Any thoughts? 03:56, August 3, 2019 (UTC)

Yes, please merge the pages. It's really obvious they are the same. I also think Tanglefur/Tanglewhisker should be merged as well, as their descriptions are the same, and they both are RiverClan elders. -- 04:00, August 3, 2019 (UTC)

I feel Tanglefur and Tanglewhisker was like Brightsky and Nightsky, so I'm thinking that's another article we could possibly merge... I'm also good with merging both Blossomkit articles, since it's painfully obvious (at least to me) that these kits are meant to be the same.

Agreed. Though what about Cherrypaw and Cherrypaw? They're both StarClan cats and we at least know the latter one was born in ThunderClan. Seeing how Spottedleaf seems to know the one that appears in Spottedleaf's Honest Answer, this one is PROBABLY the kit of Fuzzypelt and Robinwing since Spottedleaf would have certainly been alive when they were born. 14:55, August 4, 2019 (UTC)

^^I think we can merge Blossomkit, same with Tanglefur/Tanglewhisker, seems like just a name mistake there. I'm not really sure about merging the Cherrypaw's though. I've always assumed they were the same cat, but is Spottedleaf appearing to know them enough proof they're the same as Fuzzypelt and Robinwing's kit? It's entirely possible they are the same, but it's also possible Spottedleaf just met this Cherrypaw in StarClan. I don't really think there's enough evidence to support merging them. 16:44, August 4, 2019 (UTC)