Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

"It's fine"
Ok, so I feel like this needs to be brought up - and no I'm not acting as leader. I'm acting as one of your superiors (since that's technically what a SW is..). You all need to stop with the "it's fine" crap. It's getting way out of hand. Of course it will look fine to you if it's your image. If someone else says that they can't see something, or something looks wrong that makes it look like it doesn't match the other images, fix it. Don't say "Can I have a second opinion?" or "I think it looks fine to me, thoughts?" (which the latter is just another fancy way to ask for a second opinion). While you are the artist of your image, of course everything is going to look fine to you. No one likes to be told that something on their image looks wrong (me included, don't get me wrong), but it seriously needs to stop. Constructive criticism on an image is supposed to be criticism, not just a voice that gets brushed off, because that's really seriously rude. :/ 12:36, 4/22/2017

yeah, I agree. there's nothing wrong with using it sparingly, in the case you really think it's fine. but using it for everything gets really really tiring. 23:55, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

This has been a PCA issue ever since I can remember- it always has been. I agree with you, but I doubt this will make much of a difference unless some rule is enforced for it.. --PyroNacht (talk) 00:20, April 23, 2017 (UTC)

Yup definitely an issue. I definitely think there's a time and place for asking second opinions, but it should only be used sparingly, as Skt said. People should do the comments given to them, and not try to brush them off, unless they're super positive that it's perfect the way it is. And even then, not so much imo, because one is not likely to see faults clearly in their own work.

Yes, and personally I don't feel like my chararts are great. Just saying. But obviously when someone just disregards your criticism, then you feel like you aren't respected. That's not ok. I think people want to believe they have done somrthing perfectly, especially with something minor.

Duly noted :) 01:10, April 23, 2017 (UTC)

@starry I know it's always been a problem, probably always will be, people may just need a reminder from time to time. especially those who haven't been here for years. 01:13, April 23, 2017 (UTC)

I agree. My comments on some images have been brushed off a few times, and I've felt like I've been too picky (which, at times, I admit I am a little picky), but then I noticed it happening a lot more with other people. Like... what's the point in having an approval page if no one listens to others criticism? I'm fine with people asking for a second opinion every now and then but this is constant. 02:05, April 23, 2017 (UTC)

I'm very proud with the one I'm working, but I make sure to listen to all the comments even if I think that it's fine myself. The "it's fine" thing is really annoying and basically the approval page is to make chararts better, as Patchfeather said. I haven't been on the wiki for even a year yet, and I honestly thought that Warriors Wiki had always been picky when it comes to chararts, but then I looked back at older archives and it was better even then. 02:25, April 23, 2017 (UTC)

Alright, so thoughts on how to deal with this? I've been trying to incorporate a way, but really all I can think of is people being given a warning. Maybe like a 3 strikes you're out, kinda thing, but idk how that would work? Maybe if you do it 3 times your image gets declined? But idk if that's too harsh or not so don't take this to heart. Also prior to this, I've just been telling people to stop, but it kinda gets brushed off in itself, as you can see in some previous archives - like I tell people to stop, and they do it again 2 days later. So idk *shrugs* 19:56, 4/23/2017

OK, so, I read half of what you wrote before I got up and I liked the three strikes thing. While I got up, I thought "how about three strikes and your image gets declined?" Then I read the rest of it and it said that same thing! :) So I totally agree with that. 20:02, April 23, 2017 (UTC)

I think it depends. I've done it more than three times myself, and it's not always a bad thing, because often I can keep whatever it was I thought was fine. Especially for some with sharper shading styles, I've noticed in older archives that they often ask for second opinions if someone tells them to smooth it, because it's fine. Setting a strict three-time limit then having your image declined is a mite harsh, I'd say. I would, however, be in favor of declining if a user uses it three times on three separate issues. Then, that'd draw the line between an artist just trying to prove their point on one thing three times then getting declined, vs. a user who tries to refute every comment thrown their way. There's a difference between the two.

Yeah, that's kind of a better explanation than what I said earlier, but I digress. Like if a user uses it 3 times in kind of a harsh way then it could work. For example, if you Spooky were to ask someone to smooth their shading and they say "I'd really rather not, I think it's fine", then maybe that'd call for a warning? 20:14, 4/23/2017

That would work^^ Especially if someone used a tone that seemed like they were brushing someone off. But if someone just explains that that's their shading style, then I don't think it would be a warning, as they show that they value the other person's opinion but just don't think it's correct. If the artist gives a legit explanation for why they don't wish to change it, but offer to change it if someone else thinks it's not okay, then they shouldn't get any type of reprimandation for that. Especially if it's just on one issue, and they don't use "it's fine" very often in general.

What if it's not the artist that says it's fine, but a commenter? Like you know, when commenter 1 goes: Define the blah, and commenter 2 goes: its fine!! Does commenter 2 get a strike? 21:01, April 23, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, that would especially get a strike in this case. 21:53, 4/23/2017

Whoops, my bad I read the question wrong. I'm not sure actually how we'd implement this for the commentors, but I do believe they should get some kind of warning, because just because one guy can see it, doesn't mean the others can. 21:54, 4/23/2017

.....when did we decide to impliment a strike system? Because I know that's nothing I agreed to. =\

Skye I never said we would actually input a strike system. :/ I suggested it and explained my ideas for said suggestion. There was nothing here that said we input a striking system. We're just putting in our ideas and thoughts on what to do for the it's fine thing.... 23:25, 4/23/2017

We're not penalizing people for saying something is fine, aside from asking them to do said comment.... and if they don't upload or it becomes disrespectful, then it would become a wiki rule issue.. but otherwise? That's a bit too much and I really think it would just cause more harm than good. Plus, your comment and Danny's comment basically stated you wanted to start doing that- which is seriously too much for an art project that makes pixels of talking cats.

I really disagree with having a strike system. If you only say "it's fine" every once in a while and you actually have a valid reason, then that should be all right. At worst, like Skye said, you should just be told to make whatever change to your image that you're resisting. And in response to Danny's comment, you should be allowed to discuss a comment on another user's image for sure. In order to make sure that we're not being overly picky and that someone isn't told to do something that isn't even correct, we need to leave the page as an open discussion. As long as everyone is being respectful and considering others' comments instead of automatically saying "it's fine", I don't see what the issue is. 00:49, April 24, 2017 (UTC)

Honestly, I have not seen people blowing off comments in months. A LOT of the comments lately have been terrifyingly nitpicky, and are actually matters of style. I cannot tell you how many times I have had to say "It's fine and I am not changing it" in regards to how I personally shade images, as I have always done it a certain way, and suddenly people are wanting super smooth shading. The strike system would just make people even more hostile and defensive about things regarding personal ways of doing charart. There is absolutely nothing wrong with knowing that if you do something you will be told to undo it, or that different people do things differently depending on what program they use, if they use a pen-tablet or not, etc. And this is going to only make people more picky about minuscule detail. Just my two cents before I get told off. 00:59 Mon Apr 24

Well... I think it shouldn't go that far. See, comparing the chararts in general from like 2013 and the ones now, tons of new styles have developed. It's 2017, different shading, texture techniques etc are used and I think it's a good thing? Some people now are just telling people to change stuff because /they/ don't like it, or misunderstandings (for example, it was a misunderstanding that the white on belly should be defined on Sparrow Fur while she is mostly white, but people forgot about it and that's okay) I mean myself had probably done something like "The ear pink should be more purple instead of orange" -_-...?? I kinda don't understand whether it's annoying to say "it's fine I'm not changing it" or "I'd like a second opinion"? Yeah, they're happening more and more, but people are also commenting on personal styles more and more as well. It just happens because we're having more diversity in terms of how to do chararts and of course it's okay to say your opinions - I think that's exactly when "asking for what others think" is useful? Like we all know asking for second opinions to clean off waste is not logical, but strikes may be too far. Yes, rejecting a comment is a voice brushed off, but not being allowed to do that is too. I'm sorry if I'm sounding rude or harsh? I'm trying to say we should just get to understand the difference between a problem and a preference, that's all.

I too have unknowingly been rude and I do apologize, I will not brish off comments again when I post Wildkit :( Rainbowmistake (talk) 18:06, May 3, 2017 (UTC)Chat

...I think the only problems are 1) If the OA is told to change their style (not explicitly but it's there in the comment) and 2) If there actually is nothing wrong and various people agree that the comment is invalid..I don't see why it would be wrong to say "It's fine" when there are comments like those. I think second opinions are fine because if more than one person thinks there's something that could be changed, the artist will know that they should since a lot of people probably see what's wrong. I get brushing off a comment can be rude so I think second opinions would be okay because the author gets more viewpoints on certain criticism instead of only one person thinking something's wrong. --  22:27, May 6, 2017 (UTC)

I'm gonna bump this up, because I still feel as if some of us aren't quite getting that saying it's fine isn't ok :/ We need to implement something to combat this 04:24, 5/18/2017

I usually go by a rule of "If unsure about critism, then ask for more opinion" I never say it's fine. I had that put to the test once when working on Mistystar's warrior for a tweak. Someone said there was a yellow spot, but I couldn't see it at all so I asked for another opinion. Many people said it was there so I fixed it. Took more comments and multiple uploads, but I eventually fixed the yellow I never saw. Never did I need to say "it's fine". I think less experienced members need to remember they have not developed their skills properly yet, so need to do tweaks where they don't see anything wrong. That's just for younger members though, no idea if the majority of the "it's fine" sayers are more younger or older (or middle-aged? Why am I referencing ages???)Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  02:24, May 28, 2017 (UTC)

so i figured since i have time i'd add some of my (invaluable) opinions in some discussions going on. tbh it's never ok to just say "it's fine" and disregard another's comment cuz that's flat out rude but if i can recall i dont remember it being common for anybody flat out saying "it's fine" without at least listing reasons, whether good or bad. so thats one. second, i think a real problem here is that it's really hard to determine what's "fine" as opposed to not fine. a solution to this is probably the standard of saying "may i have another opinion" and see what most people think about their comment. also, i think screen resolution is also a big blatant problem cuz it shows things differently and when people comment on things like color like what stealth mentioned above, they're obviously not going to see it, and say "it's fine" then get yelled at, so thats another problem we should probably tackle as well. Life actually sucks 24/7  so    lol 09:40, May 29, 2017 (UTC)

mothflights kit alts
should these alts actually be in the early settlers blank? they're warriors by thunderstar's echo, which isn't that long after moth flight's vision. moth flight says it's been many many moons by then in the manga, so idk? what do you guys think 23:40, May 16, 2017 (UTC)

I don't know. It doesn't specify exactly how long it is from mfv to te, it could have taken place just a few days before "hunters", or warriors, were established, for all we know. 01:37, May 18, 2017 (UTC)

If TE was confirmed to be after MFV, then it would be plausible to give them warrior alts instead, because they were already listed in the allegiances as warriors by then.

I think their ES images (alts and regular) should be in the warrior blanks. I'm basing this off the appearance as Blue Whisker as a queen. Using that, we can see that MFV happens, then TE, then MFV's manga. I'm pretty sure these ES images are all cited to that manga appearance, and since that manga appearance in particular is post- TE, then that's a warrior blank.

I agree with Spooky. I think it's pretty clear based on the fact that MFV's manga is said to be a long time after MFV's events, and TE is only a couple seasons later, that TE is before the MFV manga. Therefore, you can conclude that what they when they are being shown in the manga, they must be warriors since the whole "ES" rank has already been replaced by the warrior rank, so I think their alts should be on the warrior blank. 20:46, May 22, 2017 (UTC)

Any more comments?

Join?
Could I possibly join? =^.^= Sycamoresky (talk) 07:54, June 24, 2017 (UTC)