Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Family Trees
I was getting too focused on family trees on the other topic so I decided to move it here.

There's been talk of having smaller family trees that are more focused on individual cats rather than lines. This makes sense for cats like Sandgorse. He only has three family members, but has been given a very large tree. If we are happy to take on managing more trees, I can easily create new smaller trees from the already existing bigger trees.

For certain cats however, we need to think about who to include on their trees. Lionblaze for example has a humongous number of family members, and cats like Flashnose have quite a lot of descendants, so we need to decide which family members to add to their tree.

I've done a little experimenting, and have made a draft for a Lionblaze/Jayfeather/Hollyleaf tree. Basically, I've shown their immediately family, grandkits/grandnieces/nephews (as well as half-nieces), aunts/uncles, first cousins & their kits, grandparents, grand-aunts/uncles and great-grandparents. A little bit messy in this example as Firestar/Sandstorm have a lot of siblings, but it works.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  04:24, April 20, 2019 (UTC)

I think this makes the most sense honestly, especially as the family trees have gotten more convoluted. I think adding the immediate family and those you listed would make sense. I like how on the draft you made you didn't include mates that didn't really matter, only direct descendants. It makes the family tree look more sleek and easier to follow imo. 05:08, June 14, 2019 (UTC)

The current family trees are definitely large, and I do think they could be chopped to be a more reasonable size. I like the draft you made; looks great! 01:20, June 20, 2019 (UTC)

Any other comments?

I have to ask what everybody thinks about what we think about how many descendants to show? For example, Daisytoe probably has the most descendants (about 7 generations) so I'm wondering what should the 'cap' be exactly? I know we should at least go grandkits as that relationship is acknowledged in the books, but what about after that?

I'd also like to ask about distant ancestors, like Windstar or Cloudstar. Should we show their descendants? And if so, should we show all (confirmed) descendants, or cap it as well?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:56, July 9, 2019 (UTC)

id love to stop after great grandkits/great grandparents, bc lets be real, youre very unlikely to know either of those because youd be too old or young, not to mention the relation after that kinda drifts off to irrelevance. as for the distant ancestors, i think theres enough currently that we can just lump sum them into one thing bc its not too drastically long. 00:04, July 10, 2019 (UTC)

Alright I've updated my draft. I have added Daisytoe tree with as many relatives as I can fit, then the cut version you suggested Trollsky.

I've also added what the Windstar and Cloudstar tree would look like. Windstar tree is okay, but since we are up to Crowfeather as directly said to be a descendant, I gave an example of a cut tree up to his generation.

Cloudstar tree I cannot do in full due to Willowpelt having too many descendants. We need to go to at least Tigerstar's generation due to confirmation of his descendants (generation 2), and I'd say we can do the generation after, but no more. I'll add examples of each to the draft so you see what I mean.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  02:45, July 10, 2019 (UTC)

Minor character Pages Rules
I am getting very confused on what's going on the minor character pages. I'm being told of new rules that have not been discussed or mentioned on the talk pages? I'm also being told contradicting statements on what these rules actually are.

So I think it's best we get together and discuss what all the rules of the MC pages are, now that we have been really working on them. I would really appreciate if we all give our opinion on this, cause right now it's just a few of us editing the pages.

These are the current rules listed on the talk page/s:
 * Only very minor characters with unspecified names are added to this page. If you think a character should have a page of their own, please bring it up on PC's talk page.
 * The Characters are to be named as close as to they are named in the books as possible.
 * A Character is to be put under the appropriate book. If the minor character appears or is mentioned in separate books, put them under the arc they appear in, the book they appear in the most or bring it up on PC's talk page.
 * Each character is allowed one quote using the main quote template, only if an appropriate quote can be found.

(Note: we'll have to edit the wording of the 3rd rule now they are on separate pages)

These are I guess 'ghost rules' that I've come across/been disputed that we should officially add to the rules (please let me know if I miss any or got it completely wrong!):


 * If it is obvious who the cat actually is, such as having the exact same description and position as a known character, they are considered that character.
 * Characters must have some sort of significance. This can be having kin, a speaking role, or performing an action. They cannot hang around in the background.
 * For manga cats, this means they are spoken about and not just make an appearance (I think is the general rule??)

Thanks for reading that wall of text! I would really appreciate if we can all discuss this. Right now it's becoming really difficult and frustration for me to edit the minor characters pages, because I have no idea what's allowed, what's not allowed and I'm kinda getting scared of being yelled at. I know I've already annoyed some people with some characters I've added I admit looking at them now it's was pretty stupid ><. I'm very sorry about that.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:24, June 10, 2019 (UTC)

I was always under the impression that if we can trace it to being a certain cat, though they're not named it can be leveled off as that character, usually based on their descriptions. I removed some characters from Night Whispers since at the time, it can be leveled down to one cat or between a few.

04:12, June 14, 2019 (UTC)

A good chunk of the characters seen on the minor characters pages can be narrowed down using logic to a cat that already exists. The original purpose of this page was for cats who didn't already exist, or that we cannot possibly pair them with a character that we already have a page for. Not being named shouldn't be a qualification for this, since sometimes we can actually chalk them up to being a certain cat using a description or scenes from other books. I also don't think the titles need to be as close to the phrasing in the book as possible- then we get redundant, and quite frankly, ridiculous section titles that make almost no sense.

Some of the cats' descriptions are a bit out-there too. We don't need to document that they have claws, sharp claws, round eyes, ect. They're cats. Unless they are a special circumstance character, such as Rose, we don't need to list everything that basically makes them a cat. There are quite a few entries on this page that I take issue with, because I feel it's really deviating from the intended purpose of the page. ​

Since apparently this was never finished talking about, I'd also like to say that I don't think one-offs should be mentioned here either, especially if there's nothing known about them. You'd basically be repeating information for the heading, the history, ect..and it just looks silly. If they physically appear, I could maybe see that, since we'd also have a description... but cats like 'Finchflight's apprentice' or 'Jessy's mom' don't make sense to really add at this point since we heard one thing about them, and it wasn't even a proper appearance, just an off-hand mention that doesn't amount to anything.

There also bears the question of when we can add cats. I've seen people add Curlfeather's kits to the list, despite only being mentioned once. Given that we have full allegiance lists now, perhaps we should wait and see if they appear in a book or two and then entertain the idea of adding them? Adding them right away doesn't make sense to me and just seems like an easy edit. Especially knowing they'll probably get articles of their own within a couple books. ​

Concur with above. The page should really be used for characters we don't know who they are, excluding the one-offs that honestly have no significance other than a mention. Listening them on the said character's page is fine, but I don't think they deserve their own segment on the minor characters. As for when to add them, I think it should be a case-by-case thing; for Curlfeather's kits, since we're only on book one of TBC, I think it's safe to assume they'll show up eventually in the allegiances. It's too early to put them on the minor characters page imo when they'll most likely appear soon. If it were say, random warriors with a description we cannot match to anyone else in the Clan, then they can be added pretty much whenever. 21:52, July 13, 2019 (UTC)

Curlfeather's kits should definitely wait to be added to the page since we've still got five books left in this series. I'm sure they'll pop up somewhere eventually. I think we should be using this for characters who have a bit of significance who just don't have enough known about them to warrant their own page. One-offs shouldn't be listed, unless they actually had a bit of significance. I agree we can for sure narrow down a lot of these cats to ones who already exist if we use some logic. 01:12, July 14, 2019 (UTC)

guidelines and tutorial cleanup
Given PC's guidelines are official policy (somehow;; none of the others are so it's weird) this probably does need some sort of paper trail. Anyways, the guidelines, and both tutorials we have, need some major TLC because of all the things we've been changing. Basically just asking for permission to take a knife to it and add all the new stuff in, strip out the irrelevant old stuff, and also see if anyone else saw something they wanted changed in the meantime?

Feel free, I know you've bee itching to do it for a while. The only thing I would suggest, and this is something that's bothered me before I even joined the wiki, was why novellas were listed near the bottom of the "history" section and not underneath super editions. I'm glad we're reorganizing the history section to include super editions after the main arcs, but I always saw novellas as similar in function to super editions but much smaller. They provide an insight to the time period about a certain character and their conflict/resolution. I think it would be beneficial to users if they were placed underneath super editions as they serve a similar purpose. But beyond that, that's the only guideline change I have at the top of my head. 00:52, June 22, 2019 (UTC)

Sure, I have no problem about it :) I've been meaning to add a section for how to use the minor characters template. I worked on a lot of the official tutorial so let me know if you need any help!Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  08:46, June 24, 2019 (UTC)

Go ahead, revamp it however you'd like. I'll help you if you want. :3  how to make yourself useful in pc     r ♥   ' ve always been" data-rte-attribs=" style title=will i ever be more than i've always been"&gt;waving through <span style="style" title="cuz i&lt;span data-rte-entity=">' m tap, tap, tappin on the glass" data-rte-attribs=" style title=cuz i'm tap, tap, tappin on the glass"&gt;a window <23:59, 7/01/2019> ​

Yay, paper trails. Revamp as you see fit, because a lot of the guidelines are extremely outdated and fairly old. ​

I agree that the guidlines/tutorials should be revamped a little, now that the wiki has new things to toy around with *coughcough the website*. Go for it! 02:09, July 19, 2019 (UTC)

Last Known
Based upon a late night discussion with a few others, I want to continue the character residence discussion whereas those characters confirmed dead without an afterlife residence confirmed would have their affiliations listed as "last known" instead of "current". I believe DotC characters were also brought up as a suggestion also, though I don't think the latter has been implemented.

This kinda ties in with "vanished" cats; those who we have not seen in forever or the Erins forgot about. Similar with those who died, it's odd to list them as "current: ThunderClan" when we can safely assume they're not around, most notably the DotC and early SE cats (though occasionally a Mosspelt/Mistystar does linger). I want to see if any one else agrees, and maybe decide how far back we should put the line for "last known"/"current". I think a good place to start would be the DotC era (including MV, TE, SL), CJ, MV, GC/PC, and the early Super Editions (which includes TR, BP, CP, YS - and by extension, RD since most of them appear in the allegiances). Thoughts? 16:27, July 10, 2019 (UTC)

So, from my understanding, it would be everything before the Original arc? This is completely fine with me, as long as we've got the paper trail confirming this is what we decided to do. ​​​​

Yeah, that probably would've been the better way to simplify it lol. Unless there are any other books/characters that anyone else thinks we should also include. 16:50, July 12, 2019 (UTC)

what about cats like pinefur and shadowclan pouncetail though theyre supposed to be complete allegainces now aren't they and even without that for example shadowclan was munted and pouncetail didn't appear at all which would imply a last known type of thing wouldn't it 16:48, July 13, 2019 (UTC)

I like the idea of those cats that just vanished between the arcs (I believe Thunder has a list of those characters somewhere); I only brought up those who appeared before the original arc as a starting point. But I agree, some cats have just fell off the face of the earth. For those other characters, what should our baseline be? They haven't appeared in one(two/three) book(s) since their introduction, haven't appeared in the next arc, etc? 17:24, July 13, 2019 (UTC)

Marking those cats who haven't appeared since the first arc sounds fine by me. I highly doubt any of them are going to be appearing again in any current books... and it makes sense and would cause less confusion. I think the best thing to do for cats who just disappear would be to wait and see if they appear in the next arc. If I remember right, Sparrowtail disappeared in OoTS then was added back to the allegiances into AVoS, so a character who disappears could still be added back in the next arc, and if they haven't, I think it's safe to mark them too. 01:23, July 14, 2019 (UTC)

I agree with adding a character who appears in one arc, then disappears/reappears again should be added, and for those who just poofed inbetween arcs. For example, Sweetbriar only appears in one book, then disappears except for one mention in BP. So she fell of the face of the Earth, she would probably get a last known, along with similar cats. TLDR, I agree with the above. 02:11, July 19, 2019 (UTC)

Real quick, I would also like to add those who appeared in the field guides (excluding cats of the clans and ultimate guide) in the ancient Clans to be included for "last known". Cats such as Acorntail, Mudpuddle, Poppycloud, etc. 03:14, July 19, 2019 (UTC)

Agreeing^^ It's in all ways accurate - it's just the last known affiliation they had, and doesn't even truly imply they're dead, just that they're definitely not part of said Clan anymore.

Hawkwing ~ Gold Nomination
Organized most of the main article page, added some more quotes, and finished up the Shattered Sky, Darkest Night, River of Fire summaries, and wrote The Raging Storm and Lost Stars summaries, too. 00:42, July 22, 2019 (UTC)

The Personalities & Relationships section isn't finished. Otherwise, this is very good!<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  02:18, July 23, 2019 (UTC)

I was under the impression that those were gonna be separate, since they are their own separate entity, unless I'm mistaken? 03:52, July 24, 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure, that's not what I get off the page. It's a sub page just like the trivia and kin. Has the rules been updated for this?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  05:25, July 24, 2019 (UTC)

One of the sections above is about the guidelines overhaul, which I intended to update stuff like this, since the guidelines don't reflect pretty much most of the decisions made in the last few years, and definitely nothing of the new format. I would say they are separate on a touch of prior precedent, as PB has cliffnotes and main articles nominated separately more often than not

Alrighty. Just one more thing. I noticed his novella appearance is not on the main page. Are we only doing major appearances? Ravenpaw's Farewell is his first appearance and they do focus on him oddly, probably because of his super edition coming out later.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:54, July 24, 2019 (UTC)

Yes, the main article pages are reserved for significant appearances only, and in my opinion, Hawkwing's only role in RF is to be briefly introduced. I don't even think he has a speaking role either. 22:58, July 24, 2019 (UTC)

He did have a speaking role but yes it was a minor appearance I agree. Sorry I keep bothering you about these things. XD<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:10, July 24, 2019 (UTC)

Haha, it's fine. That's the whole point of the page! 23:21, July 24, 2019 (UTC)

CBV, then?

Reedwhisker ~ Gold Nomination
my child

00:47, July 25, 2019 (UTC)

"Due to timeline inconsistencies, he is shown younger than he actually is." while true, that can't be in the history - it's written OOU to the reader and not IU, probably move it straight to trivia imo

fixed

18:22, July 26, 2019 (UTC)

The timeline inconsistency should be in Interesting facts, not Author statements. -- 18:24, July 26, 2019 (UTC)