Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Cinderpelt Alt
I'm bringing this back up because we didn't really reach a conclusion last time, and I still think she should have an alt. In the manga at the end of YS, when she was alive as both a Medicine Cat Apprentice and Medicine Cat she had a fully healed leg. Both Berrynose and One-eye have alts. for their missing tail, or eye, being there, so she should have an alt. for her leg being normal.

If anyone wants to look at the original conversation it's [http://warriors.wikia.com/wiki/Warriors_Wiki_talk:Charart/Archive_77#Cinderpelt_Alt. here]. 04:02, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

Just something I noticed now, she also has something like tabby stripes on her face, like on her White medicine cat alt. So there's something else. 05:08, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

One way or another, with the StarClan blank, you can't see her damaged leg, so there's no real reason to have an alt. 02:51, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

I think that she should get the alts, she was shown alive with them. owo 02:53, January 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * sorry, I read that wrong.  02:54, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

Bluestar alt, question about Molepelt's fur
In The Lost Warrior manga, Bluestar is shown in one of the pages in grayscale as a dark gray cat with a white face, and black markings underneath her eyes. Does this call for an alt?

Also, in the Yellowfang's Secret manga Molepelt is a longhaired kitty. Should he be put as a longhair since is pelt length is never really mentiond in the books, or is the manga an unreliable source? Hooh54 (talk) 23:53, December 24, 2012 (UTC)Hooh54

Tweak concerns
Hey all, I just wanted to bring something up. I've noticed that with images, we've kind of stopped asking OAs about their images, I really think that if the OA is still around, we should still make sure if they want it before nominating them. A lot of redo nominations have been declined simply because it's something that could be tweaked on the .psd or .xcf file. I know it's kind of silly to be sentimental about an image, but regardless of that, some images can be saved a lot of grief by using the original file instead of redoing it, that's what email is for. And no I'm not pointing fingers, I think a lot of us are guilty of it, actually. Even though I'm not as active as I used to be, I'm still supposed to be in charge of tweaks and I just wanted to give you all a reminder, kind regards, 06:53, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

While we're on the topic, I'd just like to give a friendly reminder to please strike out any tweaks/redos you're planning to do. It makes removing old and finished tweaks/redos much easier. 23:38, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Also to actually remove the old and finished tweaks/redos, since people seem to forget. 23:56, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Blanks - What about the kits?
Okay, since I cannot seem to find where we agreed to only use these for full-grown cats, I'm starting a discussion. So, as far as I know, we have Adderkit, Blossomkit, Mosskit, Larchkit, Hollykit, and probably a couple others that I missed. Some people think that they should only be used for full-grown cats, but I can't remember where we actually agreed to that. So, what should we do? Honestly, I think the blanks should be used for all StarClan cats, regardless of age. Maybe we should resize the StarClan blanks so there are some specifically for those kits in StarClan. After all, they are StarClan blanks.

If we're not going to use the full-size blanks, then what do we do? That's not right to only use the StarClan blanks for "adult" cats, especially if the blanks were made for cats who are in StarClan. It's excluding the younger cats. Apparently we started a discussion and never finished it, so here I am.

Comments?

I thought we weren't going to make new images for the kits of StarClan since the StarClan blanks were made because there are no ranks in StarClan, and we decided a long time ago that kit is an age, not a rank. 03:20, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Though I originally supported the idea of having kit starclan blanks for them and still do, I will point out that this is absolutely no different than with kittypets and rogues and loners. They're full grown blanks, and therefore kits of that rank don't get it. They're as much that rank as Starclan cats are theirs, so I don't see why this should be any different than that. And we don't need to agree on the blanks being full grown cats, you can clearly see it. The proportions, size, ect. It's just not something you agree upon, it's something you can clearly see, and they were approved like that.

So though I would support Whiskey changing the size and proportions of them and putting up kit starclan blanks, I really don't know that it's needed, since we've had this case in the past. Whoever let's make it clear that the kits in starclan shouldn't get sc chararts till this discussion is finished. Shelly y u edit conflict? >:C 03:22, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

As Shelly said, there are no ranks in StarClan, so I think every cat in StarClan should get the blank. You forgot Perchkit x3  03:23, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Duck, the point of my statement was that the blanks were made because there are no ranks in StarClan, and that kit is not really a rank. 03:26, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Um I pretty sure that's not what shelly was saying.... Since kit is an age, not a rank, it doesn't wrongly portray starclan cats. The blanks were made cause the cats who were leader and such weren't still leader in StarClan. However these cats are still kits in starclan. They shouldn't need anything more since they didn't change rank, nor age. I swear imma smack you if you edit conflict again 03:27, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Whoops, read it wrong, but still think kits should get the blank, or at lease a modified version of the blank, they are StarClan members. x3 Now you're edit conflicting me, Paleh. D=  03:34, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

How long did it take you to type that? xD But Duck, the Starclan blanks portray a lack of rank. Kits don't have a rank as is. Why should we use a full grown blank, or make a smaller version of the blank for a cat who doesn't have a rank anyways and s correctly portraying the ranking is starclan? And again, the case isn't really any different than kittypets and such. They're still kittypets, but they simply don't get the image cause of their age. That's how we've always done it, and I don't think this should be much different. 03:39, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Ummm... Along time, lol I get sidetracked easily. xP But in my eyes, they are a part of StarClan, members of StarClan, that's like saying that because Frecklewish, and the other daylight-warriors are still kittypets, they shouldn't get warrior images, Maybe a switch template would be good for this, a modified version of the blanks and the kit image. owo I don't know if I'm making any sense x3   03:47, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

But being part of sktclan means being a rank, in her case, MC. Cody joined TC temporarily, but she didn't get an image because she never became a warrior or anything. You don't get a blank for joining something, you get it for actually changing ranks or ages. Which the starclan kits do not. There's no rank change or age change on them. It'd be pointless making blanks for those guys. 03:50, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

SktClan? lol Yes, but Cody was never shown to have any desire to be part of ThunderClan, these kits do not have a choice, they are members of StarClan, therefore they should get an image for it. 03:54, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

As I said, joining something doesn't mean you need to get a new image. That's be like saying we should make a new rank for the rogues that form groups together and such like Jingo. Clan cats get images when the join purely because a rank automatically comes with joining. They go together with normal clans. StarClan is different, they don't have ranks period, so there shouldn't be an image just for joining. The images are there because they're no longer the rank of any blanks we have, except for the kits, who didn't have a rank in the first place so didn't change. Going by that logic, kittypet, rogue, and loner kits should get different kit images than clan kits. Oh gimme a break, the t is close to the y DX 03:59, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

I still stand by my original opinion, that they should get an image. 04:04, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

-shrugs- To each their own, I put my opinion. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what everyone else thinks. Oh also a little note, if we make altered starclan kit blanks for them, we have to make altered kittypet/rogue/loner kit blanks for other characters. o3o Jus' sayin'. 04:09, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think they need another set of blanks. Just give them the StarClan blank. Like Paleh said, the kittypet, rogue, and loner don't get smaller blanks for their kits. If this does pass Whiskey is going to need to figure out a better way of resizing blanks. o3o  04:56, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Resizing the blanks a bit would be a good idea. After all, the kits are still members of StarClan. 12:13, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Why not just having a toggle between the full-sized StarClan blanks and the kit blanks? Honestly, Mosskit and co. are every bit a StarClan member as Whistestorm and others...they're just smaller. They should still get some kind of image. 14:30, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

A toggle would be a good idea. Leggo's got a really good point. They are just as much of a StarClan cat. And I think Mosskit actually says something to that effect in The Last Hope that proves they're not just "kits".

I stick by my argument that nothing should be done. Again, the blanks were made because there are no ranks in StarClan, so the leader, deputy, elder, warrior, and apprentice blanks wouldn't work, but kits are already rankless. 19:40, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Why should we exclude the kits from the blanks? They're StarClan cats all the same, and we made the blank for StarClan cats. The matter of their physical age shouldn't matter, as it's been proven that kits aren't just kits in StarClan.

Mosskit, Adderkit, and Blossomkit all stayed kits in StarClan, as did Yellowfang's daughters. In fact, the only kits we've seen to have aged in StarClan were Smallkit and his siblings, and the Erins stated that was a special case. And no, the blanks weren't just made to represent cats as members of StarClan, they were made to represent, basically, a state of ranklessness. And, as we've already established again and again, kit is an age, not a rank. I believe the dead kits should just be left with their kit blanks unless we've seen them as adults in StarClan. 20:02, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

To me, it didn't seem like these blanks were made to represent rankless cats, but only the StarClan cats. o3o Anyway, I think it would be good to at least have some sort of differentiation between the dead StarClan kits and the living ones. Maybe not use the full StarClan blank. Shrinking that blank down seems like a good idea. Then, the person looking at the image will get the idea that it is a young kit that is deceased in StarClan. It could be awfully confusing to have all kits, dead and alive, to use the seme blank. It's why we made these blanks in the first place, right? So people would know right away that the cat is StarClan, regardless of what kind of cat they were in their clan. As Cloudy said, why would we exclude kits just because of the age in which they died? They're still StarClan cats. Sorry if I'm repeating people x.x;;  22:00, 03, 01, 2013

I agree with the others, the kit's have much of a place in StarClan than any other cat. And Cloudy did point out that Mosskit had indeed matured with her time there, and that they are more than just kits there.(I'm sure that even though their size doesn't, they still 'grow up' in a sense) I also agree on the toggle, for that seems like a good idea, too. asdf im probably repeating too cx  22:04, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not truly opposed to either idea, leaving as is or shrinking the blanks, but I don't think that there should be a new set of blanks made all together. Like has been said before, a kit is no less a part of StarClan than any other cat, they're just smaller. Though there's no evidence that kits can't grow in StarClan, as seen with Smallkit and the others, normally, it seems that kits stay as kits, and they're picture should show a kit, not a full grown cat. So, whether we leave them with their kit charart or shrink the blanks, kits should not be done with the full-size blanks since they're not full grown cats. 22:21, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

I've already stated my opinion on what I think should be done so I wont repeat myself, but I will say Scarlet is right. If we do end up giving them starclan images, they most definitely should not be the full sized ones, as they wrongly portray the cat, and it is confirmed by the erins that kits stay kits in starclan except in the special case of smallkit and his siblings. 13:51, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

There hasn't been much comment on this for a while. Anyone object to shrinking the blanks for the kits, maybe to about the size (generally) of the old apprentice blanks? 02:53, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, yeah, kit is not a rank, but they died as infants. Mosskit is noted to be hanging around the bottom's of Snowfur's legs. They are rankless but are still smaller than most other StarClan cats, and that's why I believe that they should get a smaller StarClan blank. 05:54, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

CBA
I'm seeing a lot of people CBA-ing images after like.. one hour... four hours... and I don't think it's right. In the past, we waited 24 hours before CBA-ing an image. It gives any further commenters to come and give their opinion before the time is up to CBA it. Saying "this is beautiful, so CBA?" an hour after an upload isn't right. 24 would give any other users to give their say. I know you can break the CBA, but why if they were just going to comment that day anyways? Probably going to get shot for this, but I just felt like I should give my opinion. 21:58, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Whoops. To be honest I had no clue you had to wait to CBA an image. It makes sense to wait a day, though, so that guideline probably should be followed. 23:55, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

I've been thinking about this as well, honestly, and I'm glad somebody thinks the same way. I understand that there's people that have been making amazing chararts, yet they don't get the same time limit as other users who have had to wait almost a day before they get another comment or CBA. It's simply not fair. I'm not pointing fingers, but the fairness in the stage of CBA, quite frankly, is poor. There's some users who don't have to wait long for a CBA and some that do. Other than that, the words have been taken out of my keyboard. -- Atomic Pumbaa! Let me define babysitting! 23:55, January 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * What are you getting at, exactly, Starry? Just because an image has been up for awhile doesn't mean it's going to get CBA'd. Images are CBA'd when they are finished, not because it was up at the same time other that have been approved are. Some people have to wait awhile to get a CBA because they need to work their image up to the quality expected of the art that will go on an article. 00:09, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

There is no set time limit upon which a lead may CBA an image. If it's a well done image, then why should we have to wait an entire day to CBA something? Honestly... it's not "poor", or "unfair". >.> We CBA those which are exactly as they are; ready for approval.

There's never been, as far as I'm aware, any rule about waiting 24 hours before a CBA. CBA is 24 hours as is, if an image is ready, why make it wait 42 hours? Just cause it seems "unfair" to those whose images aren't ready right away? No, that's just silly. There's never been a rule about this, and there shouldn't be. If there's something wrong with the image, that's the whole reason for the CBA. To see if there's any other comments, or if anyone disagrees with the judgement of the SM. We nominated all our SMs to be trusted to know when an image is ready to be approved. If that's at the first upload, then what's so wrong about that? It's unfair to the artist to make them wait an extra 24 hours past the CBA just cause their image was ready upon upload. No. Just... no. 00:15, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

While waiting an entire day may be a bit extensive, I have to say the CBA process is actually quite poor and unfair. There are known artists such as Mounty and Paleh that receive much attention and while it's not unfair or anything that they're amazing artists, it is unfair when their images get CBAed two hours after it's posted when there's another person, waiting for over a day who gets absolutely no attention at all. For example, currently, Leaf-storm's Wind charart. She reuploaded it on the 3rd, it's gone two days without comments and it's just now being CBAed on the 5th. Meanwhile, Raggedstar was CBAed ten hours after it was posted. I don't mean to pick on users or put them in the limelight, but it is unfair considering these two examples that could probably have both been approved with the same edit. 00:16, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

I completely agree with Teldy. I have noticed the same thing too. Some users get CBA'd quickly because of their skills, and others have to wait. Maybe 6 hours before CBA? Or maybe even 2 hours. Just to make sure the image doesn't have anymore flaws. 00:22, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

No need to pick on me cause I edit conflicted ;-; Meanie! *throws a fish at you* I do totally agree it's unfair to those less known users that end up waiting hours and hours when their images are ready, however I'm not sure how exactly to fix that, as leads are supposed to browse the images regularly anyways. I'd fully support any ideas on how to stop that from happening though. However making you wait 24 hours before CBAing certainly wouldn't, soooo yeah. Ideas? Silver, edit conflict >:C 00:23, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

Silver, honestly I don't think waiting longer on the more well known artists would help any, what needs to happen is that the less known members need to get CBA's as quickly when they'e ready. Making the ready ones wait longer wouldn't affect the less known ones at all. 00:26, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

Honestly, I think that a time wouldn't prove that useful. If a CBA is called, you're more than welcome to break it if you feel there is something else that the image in question needs to be improved upon. I've had multiple of my own called into question, and those I'm grateful for, as they allowed me to help improve. I think that if someone CBA's an image, it's really just a heads up to users to pay close attention to the image, as if no one else comments, it's going to be added to the article.

I'm sorry for bringing this up and causing essays I'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry. 24 hours may be a bit extensive, and I respect that, and I agree with shortening the time length. Any time length is better than none. I saw an image get CBA'd after 4 minutes of a reupload... and I don't think it's right... there needs to be some boundry. And with the popular users part, it might be a bit unfair, but there's nothing we can really do to change that on a social standard. 6 hours would be a good limit, maybe even 8, just something to give any last comments a chance to be added. 00:49, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

Splook, there is nothing to be sorry for. You brought out your own opinion and stated it and frankly I believe you have a point there. I think that cba'ing after four minutes is a bit extensive as well. I don't think there needs to be a time limit, but, I also don't think you should cba four minutes after. 00:53, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

And also. If we CBA it because you feel it needs to be CBA'd, I respect that, but maybe others don't. Someone can always see something you couldn't. I know you can break the CBA.. but if it was CBA'd after an hour then there was no time for them to comment before the CBA status was added. 00:55, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't object to having a short time restriction before CBAing, but I have to say, when someone CBA's something, it means they believe that nobody would have anything to comment on. That's something you have to think about when you CBA. If they're wrong, then so be it and break the CBA, but images aren't CBA'd just because one user doesn't have any comments for it, it's because they think others wouldn't too. I honestly don't see a problem with CBAing before a bunch of people would have time to look at it and decide if they see anything wrong. But again, I won't object to a few hours before you can CBA. 01:27, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

-le matrix dodges fish- I'd say at least three hours to maybe twelve hours, somewhere within that time frame to wait to CBA something. I get that when you see an image, you can truly believe is truly ready for approval. But I'd also like to say that while it's great that we have amazing artists, the entire project must be taken in account for thus we need to focus less on our friends and focus more on the entire project, especially on including apprentices, kits, and all the other artists that are often forgotten when the hype of a new, epical image is posted. 02:40, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

Mmhm mmhm mmhm *nods* I'd say about roughly 6 would probably be a good inbetween number. Not super short but not overly long. 02:49, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. 02:52, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with what has been said here. Yes, I do believe chararts can be beautifully done from the start, but there needs to be some sort of a boundary to prevent over CBA'ing and such. And I agree with Paleh, 6 hours would be a good fit. 04:21, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

I agree, also, though some images are beautiful, and perfect in our eyes, another user could find a flaw in the image. x3 02:54, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

But if a CBA is started, there's still 24 hours for another to look at it and find something they think could be improved on, there's nothing stopping them. 02:12, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

^ Scarlet has a point. CBA's are meant to draw attention to an image before approval. An image could be CBA'd a dozen times before it's actually approved. Honestly, if a senior warrior thinks the image is done, it shouldn't matter whether it's been up for a few minutes or a few weeks - other users can stop the CBA if they don't think it's complete. There's no point in delaying it. 03:12, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

^^I agree with Whiskey and Scarlet. If a seinor warrior thinks it's ready, then CBA it. No need to clog up space on the approval page because we need to wait a certain amount of time before we can CBA it. If the image is ready, then it's ready- there's still a full 24 hours to comment on anything you might see. -feels like I'm repeating things- 03:17, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

But why the rush to CBA it when you could just wait a few hours to see if anyone else has anything to say? 20:42, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

Splook has a point. Also, some newer users might be kinda scared to break CBA, or they might not know that it's allowed. So, yeah, I still think we should wait. 23:06, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

I see no practical reason to make people wait to put a CBA on an image. Honestly, the way it looks to me is that people are complaining that the "good" artists have their images CBA'd sooner than their own. If an artist's image is done, it's done. There's no point in waiting to get it CBA'd and off the approval page. We don't have a problem with redone images that get no comments and are archived 24 hours later, what's the difference with new images? 01:27, January 10, 2013 (UTC)

True, but I don't see the harm in putting a limit. I think CBA'ing an image after minutes is just unfair. Anyone can go up to someone and say "can you CBA my image" and so forth in order to get it approved faster. Putting a boundry wouldn't harm anyone and our CBA'ing system would function more smoothly. And like Duck said, new users might be afraid to break a CBA. When I was new, I was afraid to even comment, let alone break a CBA due to intimidation. This is my opinion. Archive this discussion and forget I even opened my mouth, whatever. I was just trying to get the CBA train running more smoothly than it has been. 01:49, January 10, 2013 (UTC)

No need to down on your opinion, Splooky. We're all entitled to our own. I understand the point of the argument, since some user's art gets more attention at times than others, but still, I think it's kind of counterproductive to put a limit on when an image can be CBA'd. There never has been before and that time, I'm sure, was busier than now adays. Though it might feel kind of daunting for a new comer to break a CBA, there's nothing stopping them and as for the requested CBA, well, I think the only fair thing that could be asked if that "hey can you go comment on my charart?". 01:54, January 10, 2013 (UTC)

Join Request
Hey can I join the project?

BlueDeino (talk) 04:29, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

Sure! I'll add you in as a kit, check out the guidelines and the charart tutorials, and if you'd like a mentor, head over to the mentor program and place a request. Welcome to the Project! 10:00 Tue Jan 8

Joining this project
May I join Project Chararts? 23:45, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

May I join Project Chararts too?Sugarfur (talk) 22:00, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

Sure, I'll add you both in. Check the Guidelines before participating in the project, or answering any questions you may have. Go here to check out the Mentor Program, or here to check some handy tutorials. Welcome to the project! 02:56, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Re-Join
May I? ps. it's ferk. 01:07, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

Sure! I'll add you in as a kit, check out the guidelines and the charart tutorials, and if you'd like a mentor, head over to the mentor program and place a request. Welcome to the Project! 10:02 Tue Jan 8

Join?/Spottedleaf StC Charart
Ohaider~ I'd like to join PCA, as I am a huge fan of Warriors and drawing them. And if I end up joining, could I do Spottedleaf's StC charart, if nobody has done it? I know all about Charart, so I don't believe I don't need too many pointers, as I am an apprentice in PCA on WCCRPW~ Thanks~ Spottedpool AutumnClan (talk) 01:30, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

Sure! I'll add you in as a kit, check out the guidelines and the charart tutorials, and if you'd like a mentor, head over to the mentor program and place a request. Welcome to the Project! 10:04 Tue Jan 8

Also, if you would like to do Spottedleaf's SC charart, you'll have to reserve it on the reservation table. 10:26 Tue Jan 8

Bluestar Question
I know we're tweaking Bluestar's images to be pale, but shouldn't we keep the regular blue leader character? She's been shown that way in art, and I don't know if this counts, or if Mistystar should be made pale, but they're said to very similar/identical (I don't remember which). We do art for characters in CoTC and the mangas, so, I believe she still needs the regular blue image. Thoughts? 07:41, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Oh that's right.... Forgot about the cats of the clans image. Hm.... Well she's shown as really really blue, not so much gray in that, so perhaps now that her official shade has changed, she should just get an alt. The normal leader doesn't really match the color in the official art though. In normal cases I'd say that'd be a contradiction to the pale description since it came first, however it's not so much blue gray as dark blue, which doesn't match her description anyways. So yeah probably an alt. As for Mistystar, I'd have to see the exact quote to decide. What book was it again? 20:50, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, so how about we switch the blue leader image to her alt and I can quickly tweak it to her blue color since I have the layers, and then of course the pale's going on her main, so I think a switcharoo would be easiest. And I believe it was in Forest of Secrets (the one where Mistyfoot is pregnant I think)  16:01, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Apprentices?
Hi, I just have a suggestion. If any users that found a mentor on the mentor application page, shouldn't they be listed as an apprentice at the top? (Sorry for just putting this in a random project XD) 19:41, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

The mentor system and the kit system are completely unrelated. Even if you have a mentor, you're still a kit till you post an image that's 80% done. 20:06, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Re-join
I was off for vacation when I was gone... so..May I join PCA? Crys tal  hea  rt! ❄  02:24, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Course, I'll add you in now. ^_^ Please read the guidelines and if you need any help, check out the apprentice tutorials, and feel free to request a mentor if you wish. Welcome to the project! :3 08:36, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

A Question
So, is Stoneclaw33 still a mentor, as she's not listed as a mentor, but I was her apprentice before I went on hiatus?

Thanks and sorry to bother ^^

16:51, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Stoneclaw isn't in the project anymore, so no, she isn't. You're welcome to apply for a new one though. 17:14, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Yo
Can I rejoin? OwO

No.

Orly? xP

Yarly. welcome back, Stoner. ouo

Rejoining for the last time
Okay, I promise this is the last time I'm going to do this. I can't guarantee that I will post charart, probably only critique.I understand if you all hate me and won't want to let me. 20:50, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Quay you dope, of course we want you back. xD I'll add you in now. You were a warrior right? Check out the guidelines to refresh your memory or see the changes since you were last here. :b Welcome back~ 08:36, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Dark Forest Blanks
'''I think that we should have DF blanks since we have SC blanks. Please tell me is I am wrong since I am new.Sugarfur 00:02, January 15, 2013 (UTC)'''

We use the rogue blanks for Dark Forest cats because they are remarked as being rogues within their own clan 02:03, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Also, the StarClan blanks were made because there are no ranks in Clans, so showing a character with the leader blank for isntance would be false. But in the Dark Forest, there are clearly defined ranks. Leaders, senior warriors, warriors, and apprentices. 02:05, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

-pops in slightly related question- On that note, should Brokenstar's main image be a leader charart? He's clearly shown to be the leader of the Dark Forest in The Last Hope, and like Shelly said, they clearly define their ranks. 03:12, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Him and Tigerstar, I'd think. Those two are the most clearly defined leaders. However, I'd prefer we continue treating the group the same way we treat BloodClan: it's only the bastardization of the idea of a Clan. In the end, though they have clearly defined ranks, they're still rogues to the Clans. And it's the Clan point-of-view that we have followed thus far when defining character ranks. Rogues are cats that attack the Clans, which includes the Dark Forest. 04:50, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lotSugarfur 22:11, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Joining Project?
Hello, sorry if I sound like a noob, but I would like to join Project Character Art. I have an interest in digital artwork, and I'm practicing the use of my tablet pen. I have watched the team work from afar and have read some of the tutorials, so I have some experience. Thanks for reading,

Flutterangel (talk) 02:25, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Course, I'll add you in now. ^_^ Please read the guidelines and if you need any help, check out the apprentice tutorials, and feel free to request a mentor if you wish. Welcome to the project! :3 08:36, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Mentor Program
Broken record here, but the discussion was archived before anybody really gave any suggestions. Assessments need to be figured out for the mentor program if we're going with the layout and system I suggested a while back. I've updated the draft, but the assessments are still undecided on. I was thinking something like this;
 * Basic charart knowledge
 * Correctly sized blanks
 * Shading
 * Earpink
 * Eyes
 * Solid cats
 * Colored
 * White
 * Black
 * Two patterns of choice
 * Natural pelt colors
 * Basic pattern and pelt knowledge
 * White cats
 * Black cats
 * Bicolor cats
 * Acceptable tabbies
 * Tortoiseshells
 * Flecked/Speckled
 * Mottled/dappled
 * Basic image tweaking knowledge
 * Shading tweaks
 * Blurred lineart fixing
 * Color tweaks
 * Basic pattern altering (adding striped, white, ect.)

Along with perhaps a link to a final assessment image, uploaded to the apprentice's PI or to a site like Iaza or something similar, and a SM can judge whether the apprentice is ready to graduate, rather than just approving any graduation request posted. Let me know what you guys think, and if you have any other suggestions for things to be changed on the draft before it's put into use. 09:37, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I honestly don't think we somebody needs to match all of these. Heck, as a SW doubt I could even assess somebody in their mottled/dappled or flecked/speckled cats. I think just like, say, a solid cat and one other type of pattern would be all that's needed. Otherwise that's also a lot to assess for an optional program. 04:00, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Mmm true I suppose.... hmmm.... Well I do think all the tweaking's neccesary, but maybe not the other things. Sooo few users know how to properly tweak when they first become a warrior, I think that's something they should learn. However yes, probably not all the patterns, maybe just one or two patterns of the mentor's choice? 04:10, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with this...and I quite like it. I think a basic rundown on each of the styles is a good thing for each apprentice to know. Like, they don't need to be able to master the skills, but I think they should know the basics. I fail with mottle, speckled, ect, so I'm not that useful and my tabbies aren't natural. xDD. I also think that teaching them how to properly tweak an image would be nice.

All in all, yeah, these topics would be good to teach, and perhaps a brief lesson would be a good idea, but I don't think it's required they should know it by heart in order to graduate. A solid, and one or two other styles is good enough. And it shouldn't just be assessed by the mentor. Just like in Warriors, there's normally another cat or two helping out.

Though I like the idea of having the final assessment by another user, it'd only work if we have enough active users participating in the mentor program, which I'm not sure we do right now. Perhaps the heads could do it until we get more active in there (if we ever do....)? 05:05, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Updated the list up there for anybody. 05:09, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Also, on a slightly different note, what do you guys think of upping the maximum apprentices per users up to three? There are so few active mentors lately, if we start really getting on top of the mentor assignments, there'll be no open spots for aew apprentices soon. 22:20, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Join Request
KnightsofaRound - Join Request

Hi, it's KnightsofaRound again. I did Rainflower's Starclan image, and I enjoyed collaborating to make character art, and I am wondering if I may join? (KnightsofaRound) 17:04, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Of course you can! Since you already have one fabulous image approved, you'll be added in as an apprentice instead of a kit. If you have questions, you can consult the guidelines or apprentice tutorials. There's also the mentoring program, although that's going through a renovation phase, as seen above.

The Softpaw Blanks
Mmkay, since I get shot down every time I bring this up on the approval page, I feel I should bring this up here.

I have nothing but love and respect for Ivy, but five months is too long for any image to be up for approval, even blanks. The blanks are, in my opinion, still nowhere near being done, and I think they should be passed on to someone that will be able to finish them while still keeping the pose Ivy came up with. To dispell any thoughts that I might want the honor of making the blanks, no, I'm not asking to take these over, and I don't want to. I just want them to get done.

So that's what I have to say. Be angry at me all you want, I don't think we should devote almost half a year to an image, even blanks. 21:37, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

I don't want to offend Ivy or hurt her feelings, but I really do agree completely. I did suggest a while back that they should be given two months, and that was kinda thrown out the window. But in any case 5 months is just too long. Of course the pose should be kept, since that is what we all voted on, but they need to be passed on to somebody... I'm sorry Ivy. 22:10, January 16, 2013 (UTC)