Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Discord "Pre-Reservations"
I noticed a lot of this lately. Basically people "reserve" things before blanks are approved, and tell an admin on discord or something. If someone happens to reserve that image before they do, they receive a lot of backlash and the image goes to that person who "pre-reserved" it eventually. This happened to me before with Needletail, and I should've brought this up earlier. I think we either stop with these "pre-reservations" altogether, or make it an official thing on the wiki. It's unfair to those, like me, who don't use discord and have no idea who reserved what and what's "available", even though technically they are all free game. Thoughts?

I think the pre-reservations are helpful and are actually more fair in a way. Lots of us have totally different timezones and always get screwed over by wiki time when things get approved and we don’t get to the ones we want in time. It’s really helpful and takes a lot of stress off.

However, I wasn’t aware about the issue with it going to the pre-reserve person. I think that if you manage to reserve an image before the big pre-reserve, it should be yours.

I agree with need to fix this, and maybe making it official would work, or at least having some sort of notice/page for everyone to see. Good on you for bringing it up Fox!! :) 05:24, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

its unfair to those who dont use discord. on the other hand, timezones and edit conflicts suck, so i support the idea of having an official prereserve page where people express interest in prereserving images. people with reservation conflicts can discuss it amongst themselves. however, as of now having it done on discord is unfair and this should be addressed. 05:27, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

I don't have an issue with people wanting/pre-reserving images because yeah, timezones put people at a disadvantage. But when people who reserved images fairly are forced to hand over images simply on the basis of people saying "I wanted it" "I told an admin on discord" etc., it becomes unfair, especially if the person wouldn't have known about it beforehand. For me personally, I had no idea Needletail was "pre-reserved" because I didn't go on discord, but my reservation was rebuked and changed. I shouldn't be punished on the basis of not going on discord and not knowing about an unofficial reservation. The reason I'm bringing this up now is because I don't want a repeat of this for the leader blanks, warrior blanks, etc. If we make this official where everyone's decisions are transparent with everyone, I'd be fine with it.

I will admit, I was one of the ones who did a massive pre-reverse because no one took an issue and it was usually only 5 or so hours in advance. Although I think a pre-reverse table beats the idea of a reservation table in general since it is first come first serve, I think Fox brings up a very valid point. Also, I want to add that "I told an admin on discord" is null and should not qualify in any way shape or form. But, if this proves to be an issue, then it should not be allowed. 05:36, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

Addition: Pre-reverses, whenever they are, are not official and never have been. So Fox, whoever removed your reservation if you reversed first was completely uncalled for. Other than that, I can only see pre reverses being official in a case for OAs. 05:37, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

Agreed with everything Icy said. Prereserves are unofficial, and they don't hold any claim until they're put up. I do like the idea of trying to find another way to do "prereserving", but unsure where we could include everyone since not everyone has Discord, etc. —

If anything, if there were pre-reserves you could always do them on the wikia chat (when/if enabled). That way everyone could get involved. 05:42, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

We could make a disscussion forum perhaps? 05:46, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

Chat is easily missed for those who don't come on the right time. If anything, it should be a forum/discussion page.

But, if we officially pre-reserve, the reservation table loses its purpose as well. 05:49, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

Why have these at all? Like, if it wasn’t an issue then hey why not, but having them on a forum and stuff like that with discussions and everything just seems kinda not. Wow it’s late. I’m for just doing things the traditional way, racing to their own and that’s that. And perhaps generally try to CBA blanks at a time that isn’t 3:40am for a good chunk of our EST editors (and many who are otherwise in the US, 2:40 or 1:40am). About 12:00 would work for a lot more people and would hit pretty much all of our editors timezones.

I'm in agreement with Spooky. I'd rather keep things the traditional way. 05:59, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. Although I have been the one doing the pre-reservations, I believe now is the time to stop. 06:02, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

What about a page within PCA that's basically for marking your interest in an image? No official reservation, just something to notify people that you would like to work on it, and the other people wanting to reserve it can do what they wish with that information. Most people are fairly good about working out conflicts among themselves when multiple people want the same image, either by not reserving the image at all or contacting the other person who wants to reserve it. And if the conflict can't be resolved, then they can always resort to the traditional method of trying to be the first to place it on the reservation table. This would at least give people who can't be online as soon as the images are available a higher chance of getting what they want, without being an official reservation and making things unfair.

But whatever the case, I don't think there should be any rule that says you can only reserve images for yourself. People have always been allowed to personally ask friends to reserve an image for them if they won't be online, and that seems a lot more reasonable that a mass reservation via discord. Plus it still follows normal rules, if someone else beats your friend and reserves the image first you just have to deal, so it's not any less fair than you trying to reserve yourself. The sketchiness only comes with when there's an organized big batch of images being added all by one person imo.

"Sketchiness" implies there's ulterior motives... which has never been the intent. Mass reserving spiraled out of control, as it initially started with just a couple of people and it escalated to a larger group of people. There was no ulterior motives here, it was just something nice Icy wanted to do for everyone since lately images have been approved in the early AM when some users (mostly American) are sleeping. —

honestly ive once been involved in the prereserving thing (over skype tho not discord, and a reaaaaaally long time ago loll) and i sincerely does think it does help users who are disadvantaged in terms of timezone and stuff. however i dont support the fact that it happens solely off wiki. instead i agree for a page that allows you to express interest in certain images, as paleclaw suggested. in no way would it be official, but i think it can help settle the edit conflicts a little better especially in a time where many blanks are being redone and mass reservations and stuff are happening like every week 10:06, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

The term sketchiness wasn't meant to imply ulterior motives or anything of the sort. It was only meant to imply that it enters into the gray zone of what's considered fair or unfair.

Wait, what? The mass reserves are only supposed to be done after the blanks are approved... am I missing something here, Fox? They were typically only done if someone couldn't get online, or to reduce the amount of edit conflicts. There's never been any ill intent behind these to my knowledge, but if people agree that it seems unfair, then we'll definitely put a stop to it. =) ​​

I mainly have an issue with people who tell the admins or whoever on discord that they "want" a certain image (before the blanks are approved). And then if someone else happens to reserve that image first, they would get backlash. Others would avoid reserving the image altogether, which sort of defeats the purpose of the reservation table? not talking about one person reserving images for their friends, I don't have a problem with that. The main issue is some of us don't go on discord, so there's no way of knowing who wants what and what to "avoid" reserving when the blanks are approved. For example, someone "wanted" Needletail on discord, but I reserved it first (since I don't go on discord, I didn't know about it). My reservation was removed. This morning someone also told me that they wanted an image and told Icy about their intent. I was reminded of the Needletail situation and didn't want a repeat of it.

Though now that mass reservation has been brought up, I think it's somewhat unfair to those who don't use discord. It defeats the purpose of the reservation table because you can technically "reserve" something beforehand, and if you aren't part of this mass pre-reservation thing you're automatically at a disadvantage in terms of claiming images. I think Paleclaw's idea of having an "interest page" is great. Those who don't go on discord and have a time zone disadvantage can express their interest in doing an image.

Okay so here's my two cents: prereserving was meant to be a way for others to get images if they really couldn't at said time, and they wouldn't be online for another couple hours or so. I myself have been screwed over by this recent CBA, since it occured at a time where I wouldn't be online at that time. And I can't stay up so no chance of jumping on it. I agree with you Fox that doing it soley over Discord is screwing over non-Discord users, but the idea of an official prereservation page defeats the purpose of a reservation table. Having something loose where we can discuss said reservations would be ideal, as others have suggested. However, CBAing images when most people aren't asleep or at school would also be helpful. Not trying to sound passive-aggressive or the like, I'm just trying to state my feelings. It kinda pisses me off when people are online at the approval time and I'm not soley because I'm sleeping or at school. Now if I'm not online because I chose not to be, then that's my fault. I'm not mad that others reserved it beforehand, I'm mad that they could get to it earlier and I couldn't because I couldn't be available at said time. Sorry if this is a mouthful to read and it jumps all over the place I'm not very coherent since I just woke up lol.

I mean, at one point I expressed interest to do three images, all of which belong to Jayce, and she said i could, is that ok? Malina457 (talk) 19:28, February 11, 2019 (UTC)malina

This thread is discussing "prereservations" that happen in Discord, where one person mass reserves for people right after blanks are approved. This is not about discussing OA claims. —

Malina, what I did was gave up my OA claims and passed them onto you; that is most definitely allowed and not quite the same thing. The three images I personally gave you (Finchflight, Breezepelt, and Nightcloud's warriors) are all yours to create and you have first dibs. ​

If I may, I have a suggestion. Although I am not exactly a huge part of PCA.. I can see what's going on here. So, I suggest that maybe there is a page made. Users who are particularly passionate about a certain character they want to try will be listed, assuming that the OA has not claimed the art piece yet. This would probably be best prior to blank approval.. On that page, if there is discontent, then perhaps that can be solved individually? Furthermore, the users will also put a time they added their character. I'm not sure how to explain this. Sort of a vote? I understand it might be more tedious, but there's no way every user is gonna be online and be able to land the pieces they want. I will also be willing to help out with a spreadsheet of some sort. Idk. Just a thought ^^ -- PyroNacht

I really like the idea of a spreadsheet/google doc

Any other comments? It seems that a lot of people are on board with the idea of having an interest page, if I'm not mistaken.

(This be Pyro on a new account ^^ ) I am more than willing to put together a Google spreadsheet and/or document, as I am extremely proficient in Excel and the related functions. However, in order to do that, I will need to ask: if we go through with this Interest page/document/etc, how long should we give others to review and solve? I'm sort of envisioning it like this: we have a talk or subpage for Interests only. That is where all things will go. I will add interests to a Google spreadsheet accordingly with proof of the edit (so anybody who DMs such would need to post on the page for fairness), and there will be a timer function that counts down from the moment the edit was made. My question is, what should the time limit be? And if there's no dispute, that character goes to said person. I hope this makes sense and I apologize if it seems like I'm taking charge - I just would like to help out however I can ^^ --OhlookSinesta (talk) 19:01, February 17, 2019 (UTC)

I don't think there should be a timer function because that defeats the purpose of the reservation table. I think, as Paleclaw said, that we should just let people do whatever they want with the information about other people's interests.

I also think a talk page/sub page would suffice, though a Google doc would also work.

Ack, I've been crazy busy. Alright, I'm gonna throw together a spreadsheet and I'll make a new discussion section with the link when I'm done ^^ --OhlookSinesta (talk) 22:20, February 25, 2019 (UTC)

idk this whole thing just would kinda defeat the purpose of the reservation table. not everyone has the discord, and its no longer on the actual site itself, so i think we should stick to it being on the wiki itself. like dont get me wrong sometimes pre-reservations are a good thing but idk 17:34, 2/27/2019

Briarlight
This would also extend to Frog and Wildfur, if we ever get a description for him again.

So I was thinking, instead of tweaking the warrior lineart (because we all know how horrible the last one was (and yes I can say that, it was my work)).... would it perhaps be beneficial to create a special image just for these cats? While we'd only use it for Frog and Briarlight right now, we made Cats of the Park blanks for just as many cats, and discussed unknown blanks for Ravenpaw and Jake and whatnot.

I know Patch's blank is probably tweakable, but I was thinking of one that could be used cross-rank, instead of trying to tweak the blanks we have. Probably gonna get sent to the hounds, but an idea is an idea. Breezey also suggested having a blank artist vote for it as well. ​​​​

I disagree. They were considered warriors (Briarlight, at least). She was underneath the "warrior" list in the allegiances and she did not really have a special rank. She had a warrior ceremony as well, there is no instance of her being anything but a warrior. 02:59, February 13, 2019 (UTC)

This is honestly a great udea and I love it. I'd be game for joining and trying this out. It'd make sense to do it especially since the discussio. With Jake and Ravenpaw. 03:00, February 13, 2019 (UTC)

I also disagree. They weren't a different rank or part of a different alias; they were just unfortunate paralyzed cats, but they still retained their "rank". Briarlight has always been called a warrior, and books (if I recall correctly) don't refer her as anything different. Frog was a rogue and always referred to as such. For the "unknown/ghost" cats, that was shown in the books to be different rank other than StarClan and the DF. There's nothing, as far as I can tell, that shows they were any different than what they already were. 03:23, February 13, 2019 (UTC)

I think I might be explaining this wrong, I wasn't talking about it because of their rank. I was thinking just one universal image we could use to show that these cats have this injury, since it's a major anatomical change from what we currently have. I wasn't really meaning it as a rank or anything; just something we could use to say "this cat has a broken back", kinda like how (many ages ago) some images would have the same ragged fur linearts as others. It would be a special blank just for them. I brought up the other blank because of the number of cats we'd use it for, not the purpose behind them. ​​​

Sorry but at the moment I disagree. I might change my answer depending on the discussion but for now it’s a no from me. 04:33, February 13, 2019 (UTC)

Alternatively, if we don't want to make a blank just for them, perhaps we could vote on a blank artist for Briarlight and Frog for the modified blank (warrior and rogue respectively). That way, a lot like the reason we vote on blanks in the first place, we can come to a consensus and spend more time and care on the blanks instead of one user deciding it. Note that Frog's vote can obviously include his current lineart. It would also allow us to be more picky about the lineart on the blank and more bold about the modifications. Plus, it gives everyone a chance to take a stab at drawing a cat with a broken back. 9:38 Wed Feb 13 2019

^ love the idea of having a vote for the tweak artist like we do with the other blanks. It wouldn't be all that dissimilar to the approval process of the starclan kits and permaqueens (i think?), though I don't remember if they had an official vote back then or not. But regardless they had a whole approval period just focused on the lineart tweak, which I think was very beneficial, while still being technically a tweak of the original blanks for their rank.

I'm still in disagreement for them having their own blanks, but I'm all for having a forum and voting on it. ^^ 14:08, February 14, 2019 (UTC)

I'm not really in support of giving them their own blanks, but I like the idea of voting on an artist for a modified blank, I think that would be beneficial. Even so, we could still open a forum up to vote on giving them all their own blank. 14:31, February 14, 2019 (UTC)

Agreeing with Patch^^ We should give everyone a chance to tweak the existing blank, and vote on which is best.

I think we should do a vote. My one problem is, it is not always one rank where they are hurt. What would we do about that? ✬ Love is Love forever! ✬ 05:26, February 16, 2019 (UTC)

Any other comments? If I am correct, it looks like we will be opening a forum having a tweak artist vote. 20:38, February 24, 2019 (UTC)

I believe the idea is to have a tweak artist vote for each injured cat? Or is it to just tweak one blank? 22:46 Sun Feb 24 2019

i think 1 blank to show they are hurt, and not having a hurt vertion for them all. Winter is coming,  my dearest  friends!  19:04, February 28, 2019 (UTC)

Non-Clan Leader Blanks
I was talking with a few users in Discord and they suggested I bring this up here. The non-Clan leaders are pretty much the cats that lead their little rogue/loner groups, I suggest a blank for the Non-Clan leaders. Since they technically get a rank of being leader but aren't actually Clans I think it'd be a great idea to have a blank fit for them. The leaders that would more or less count for this would be like Darktail, Harley, Jingo, etc. I don't really think BloodClan would considering they were referred as a Clan in the books. Thoughts? 09:15, February 13, 2019 (UTC)

I don't think there's really a reason to give them a different blank. There really isn't much difference from a Clan leader besides the nine lives, and even then Nightstar and Mothpelt were leader with one life. Stoneteller has a blank because that role is a medcat and leader hybrid. 9:43 Wed Feb 13 2019

i still think at the most it should be a somewhat minor tweak of the current ones if anything at all. another idea (that would be pc's jurisdiction) would be adding clan leader as the thing in the infobox, instead of just leader as it is now. 09:58, February 13, 2019 (UTC)

I don't think they'd need a different blank. It's sort of like making blanks for clan queens and non-clan queens, which would be pretty unnecessary.

Agreeing with Fox and Breezey here. Another blank is not necessary. Those cats are still technically seen as leaders, even if they don't have nine lives. 18:18, February 13, 2019 (UTC)

Agreed with above. They're not all that different from clan leaders in terms of role. 14:10, February 14, 2019 (UTC)

I think it's unnecessary for them to have separate blanks. In the end, they're all leaders, whether they have nine lives, or are in a Clan or not. 14:31, February 14, 2019 (UTC)

Maybe not another blank but maybe a tweak to their art to show their non-clan like Da ud said earlier. 16:13, February 14, 2019 (UTC)

I think we should tweak the current one to show some difference; there is a notable difference between Clan leaders and other leaders. It isn't quite just the nine lives, it's the rules they live by, their duties, how they act - all of which makes them so much different from cats like Jumper and Fog.

We could definitely tweak them.... but we also made a cotp blank for fewer cats than we have cited as non-clan leaders. So really I have no preference to how we go about this. 18:25, 02/15/2019

I agree there, that's why I brought this up. A blank was even made for the rank of mediator and CotP and I think non-clan leaders would count too. 18:52, February 15, 2019 (UTC)

I think we should have a non-clan leader blank, but I think it should just be slightly tweaked,  maby a new blank in a simalar position? ❈ Love is Love, forever! ❈ =^.,.^= 22:18, February 15, 2019 (UTC)

Kinda divided but since this stalled... any other comments before a vote on whether to make a tweaked version or no?

I honestly think it'd be a waste seeing as a big defining difference between non-Clan leaders and Clan leaders, from what I remember, is their faith (the whole nine lives thing) - which isn't a physical thing. A leader is a leader honestly - seeing as they do the same things. 21:33 Thu Feb 28 2019

Alternate Charart Section
Some characters, like Tawnypelt have so many alts that the gallery looks a little clunky and disorganized. Perhaps we should have a separate gallery for the alts? This way the chararts look more organized. It might also be helpful to have all the non-alts in one section for visual purposes. Thoughts?

I like this idea! Half the time, I look at the art for a quick glance, and I think the wrong one is what the really look like! I 100% support this. Welcome, to a world  of wonder,  and beauty!  Now follow me,  into the light!  04:50, February 20, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm all for it. Especially for cats like Brackenfur and Bluestar, too. Sometimes all those alts together can be quite an eyesore. 05:00, February 20, 2019 (UTC)

absolutely since mistakes are so prominent in this stupid series 09:17, February 20, 2019 (UTC)

Would this work?

Could also just reorder the images so the same alts are together. 11:20 Wed Feb 20 2019

I think that might end up looking messy for characters with a lot of different mistakes throughout the series, and it might get trickier to organize if that is the case.

for extreme cases like Tawnypelt and stuff, sure, but not if they only have an alt or two; just in the interest of section counts it'd be good to just do it for those that need it imo

any other comments?

Not really good at coding or anything, but would it be possible to put them into seperate tabs within the gallery? 21:13, February 28, 2019 (UTC)

Kits or warriors first
Okay so we had two prior discussions on these redoes, we got the pretty clear results of:
 * 1) Getting the blanks approved and then not using them until announced
 * 2) Split them up into sections alphabetically (such as A-D, E-J etc) to have us only do one sector at once to save it being crazy
 * 3) Warriors and above can have three images (two of which must be OA claims if one has any, then one original; which will then revert to three original when no OA claims remain)
 * 4) We’ll start making them after kittypet and leader

We do have one other thing to bring up though - kits or warriors first? Or do A-D warriors, then A-D kits to break up the monotony? Alsooooo hey does anyone want a few days break between finishing KPs/leaders and starting whatever we pick because my hand hurts from making so many recently and I’d like to think I’m not the only one

I like the idea of doing A-D warriors, then A-D kits, or the same thing, but have kits first, then warriors. I don't care either way. I would love to have a break after we finish up KPs and leaders. My hand is ready to fall off. Could maybe take a weeks break? 04:07, February 25, 2019 (UTC)

Intervals of four sounds like a good until (until we get to like the S's oh man). I don't have a preference which goes first, but I also agree alternating them. One can only shade the same short-haired warrior before it gets monotonous. And can we please take a break? Maybe one week or two...please 04:14, February 25, 2019 (UTC)

Alternating them sounds like a good idea. And I agree that we should take a break (probably a week or two).

Alternating sounds like a good idea to me... and I also 100% agree that taking a break for a week or two would definitely work. I'm exhausted already from this, and being burnt out only produces less-than-quality art for someone like me. ​

We'd do the smaller batch first, that'd be the kits. We should take a break for a week for a few, along with finishing the minor characters and character alts we have left. -- 13:17, February 28, 2019 (UTC)

I agree on finishing what's on the list before we start the warriors and kits because those have been sitting there for a while.

Family Tree Alts
So, I just visited the new website's family tree, and it has updated. we made many lts and have more alts planned due to errors, and I am bringing these up because on the tree, while some have not been fixed (Eg. Dustpelt, Stagleap, aswell as one other icon that I intend to nominate after this,). A lot of the icons have been fixed. https://imgur.com/a/UQeZNXB <-- All the ones I could find that were fixed are compiled in here. What should we do? Should we keep these alts? Remove them from the pages, and charart list? Another thing, Nightstar has been fixed, however I have just found this out, while my Nightstar family tree alt is up on the approval page. What's going to happen with Nightstar's star alt that's been up for approval? That's the basis of this. Squidward Plays All  Star. I Am Ranko Kanzaki. 23:20, February 25, 2019 (UTC)

I'd say remove them since it's no longer a mistake (it's nice how they actually fixed it quite accurately..).

Agreed^^

Yeah, I agree we remove them. For your image, you can either withdraw it or keep going with it, I'd imagine. It just won't get put on the page, if everyone agrees. 03:06, February 26, 2019 (UTC)

^ rip pebbleshine -- 07:01, February 26, 2019 (UTC)

So is it fine to remove them from pages or at least the charart list? Squidward <font color="#483D8B" face="Segoe Script" >Plays <font color="#6A5ACD" face="Segoe Script" >All  <font color="#836FFF" face="Segoe Script" >Star. <font color="#302B54" face="Segoe Script" >I <font color="#483D8B" face="Segoe Script" >Am <font color="#6A5ACD" face="Segoe Script" >Ranko <font color="#836FFF" face="Segoe Script" >Kanzaki. 17:05, February 26, 2019 (UTC)

Anyone care if we use some of these more generic ones for the minor cats page as the need arises? Like, a lot of them will get totally nuked, but some of the solids and tabbies and stuf we can reuse for super generic descriptions

Since we're removing them from their original purpose, I see no reason to not use them elsewhere if possible. It's better than having perfectly acceptable images go to waste.

24 hour archiving for warriors and kits
So we have 1000+ images in total to do. In the past someone brought up that it could be possible to archive an image 24 hours from the last comment, like the tweak page. I think this could be a time efficient way to go about with these images. Thoughts?

I think the way we're doing it now is fine. Not a lot can get on before the twenty four hours is up so I honestly think we should keep it as we're doing. 13:41, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

Agreed with Mink. 13:52, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately i have to agree with mink, the way we're going about it now is definitely fine. it gives other people chances to comment  Whiskii  ✿

I think the regular process is fine. quality is key <span style="">13:56, 03/2/2019