Forum:New Rule

I want to put this rule in place as soon as possible, so if you have any suggestions make them quick. This rule states that any users caught violating a guideline pertaining to this project will be given a strike. Users with three strikes will be demoted one rank temporarily. Users with 7 strikes will be demoted permanently. Users with ten strikes will be removed from the project. This rule applies to all users, including leads. Getting an image declined does not count. Comments? 01:06, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 01:07, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

I support this. 01:08, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Can you at least talk to the other leads about this before making such a decision, or, do the senior warriors not count as leads anymore? It's not fair, and you know it. You'll find any way you can to demote Icey. That's what this is about. You hear me, I am against this. 01:09, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

You already know you have my full support. And Cloudy we were talking about it on IRC 01:11, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

And why didn't you ask the rest of the leads? 01:12, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

I dont wanna demote Icey. Shes a good SW. I just want the rules followed. I left it open to discussion, what would you change so you would support it? 01:13, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, Icey did that before this rule was put up. So you can't really demote her. I agree with the rule. 01:26, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

This is complete and total bullcrap. You're lucky I care so much about this wiki, otherwise I would leave PCA. I won't ever support something as stupid as this. You can't tally someone if they make mistakes. I know full well what this is about. You're trying to weed out the ones you don't like, and the ones you know will slip up. 01:20, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

You need to calm down, Cloudskye, and stop swearing so much. This isn't about anyone in particular, and it looks like it applies to Iceheart and Scarletwind as well. It's fair. 01:24, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Shelly, you were in on their conversation too. Don't tell me what to do, okay. Had all the leads been included in this talk, I would be fine. But, they weren't. So, why should I be okay with it? 01:26, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Honestly I do agree with Cloudy that I think you should discuss things like this with ALL of the leads, and I think this may be about Icestorm too, however, I do think this rule is needed. So I guess I support, though I'm kinda on the fence about it. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  01:27, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

It applies to everyone in the project. This isn't meant to "weed" anyone out, this is meant to be an added incentive to make people follow the rules. Sorry we didn't include you in the discussion; it was insensitive. But I still support this. Yes, leaving you out was "exclusion", but that has nothing to do with the rule itself. 01:28 Mon Oct 24

No one is trying to get you to leave, Cloudy. Honestly, I would be really sad if you did. What I want to happen is for the project to quiet down a bit. We've had a lot of lead changes and the rules change with the leads. We don't have Bramble anymore so we can't have the 24 ban. I'll admit, I'm running out of ideas on how to get that to happen. So, maybe this wasn't one of the best ones. The kit system wasn't either. I want all of this to work out. Everyone does. I agree to the full lead discussion. We need more of that, except that all the leads are never on at the same time long enough for it to happen enough. We're on the IRC if you wanna discuss it now. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 01:29, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

If you're swearing, it's against wikia policy, and I will tell you to stop. It doesn't matter if you're 18, it's inappropriate. 01:30, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Fine well never make the silly mistake of letting people come on their own again. Its not punishing the mistakes, its punishing disregard to the rules. 01:31, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Okay we did some reveiw and we came to this: The strikes are gone. If you disregard the same rule more than once, you get demoted for good. Thats that. You can disregard 3 seperate rules, and then youre demoted for good, thats that. No soft ball here. 02:55, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

But you can be promoted again if you show improvement, correct? 216.57.241.69 03:13, October 24, 2011 (UTC) (Shellheart)

All right, I don't know if this is too late for me to get involved, and I know I've been gone for a while, but I used to be leader, so can I have a say? I honestly think this whole system is way too complicated. You guys are making it more complex than it needs to be. I know there should be rules, but too many rules can make it confusing. Why can't we just keep it the way it was, where if you did something really bad you were banned/kicked out of PCA? Now, I know you might say, "but what if they do the same little thing over and over again?" I don't know what's going on with all the snippy remarks up there, but come on guys, we're all senior warriors, we are here because we have been deemed responsible to enough to have a lea position in this project. I find it increasingly hard to believe that a respectable lead would intentionally break the same little rule over and over again just because they thought they could. Like I said, I dot know if I'm too late to contribute to this, but I'm trying to save you from too many complicated and confusing rules. 03:17, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

You're not too late. We're not enforcing anything until each leader has had their say. Trust me, I don't like it any more then you do...but we're outnumbered. Everyone else agrees with it... 03:21, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Oblivion, your say matters just as much as everybody else's. Don't think you will be just cast aside because most people are for it, because who knows, you might change people's minds about this. 03:25, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

After a lot thinking, and looking over Oblivion's post a couple times, I think it'd work better if there was no demoting. Maybe we could have the strikes for little things, like if you do something like redo an image without permission, you'd get a strike, and after three, you'd be banned for like a 1-3 days? And maybe the ban could get longer each time you get 3 strikes? Or maybe it could just be that you can't reserve another image after you're current one is approved for like, a week? I wasn't really here when the rules were as simple as Oblivion says, right after I joined the leaders started changing all the time and tons more rules got added with each lead, but I personally think it'd be nice if we went back to the PCA being simpler, with only the rules absolutely necessary. I know that probably won't happen, but we could at least try. I've been thinking it was getting a bit complicated for a while, however a lot of these we DO need. Maybe we could just simplify them? I know I'm not a senior warrior (at least not yet, I will be if my vote passes) but I do think that the warriors should have say in this, so..... yeah. :P That's my opinion on this. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  14:14, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if mere warriors can say something, but I'll say something. I disagree with this new rule. If someone does something wrong, you should just give then a friendly reminder. I agree, there's been too many new rules nowadays and it's annoying. Let's not introduce any new rule for now and just follow the ones we have. 18:24, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Well said, Moonleaf. A reminder never did anyone harm. If you ask me, I think this "rule" is going to cause more harm then good, despite the fact Iceheart and the others say it will work. It's just going to cause tons of fighting - and we already have enough of that, if you ask me. 18:28, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Woah, woah, woah. This is what I come back to? I am against this. It's not fair if we speak our opinion and get a "strike." We do what we think needs to be done, it doesn't matter if it's against the rules or not. It needs to be done. Why should we get demoted from our hard earned rank if we break a simple rule seven times? Removed with ten? We speak our opinions, and nothing will change. Like Moonleaf said, give them a little reminder. Even leads need to be reminded every once in awhile. Not demoted, that's a poor way to settle things. I'm against. -- 19:32, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I'm not stupid. I know this is directed towards me. I agree with Splashy above. No. That's unnecessary. No one should ever get a strike for speaking their mind. I agree with the above. I've been in this project logner than any of y'all, I have experience. And let me say that this is too much rules. This isn't even NEEDED! And because this is directed towards me, I disagree with this. 19:55, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Okay I have made up my mind, I do not like this rule. It's unfair for newer, or even forgetful (like me) who will probably make a mistake. Everyone should be able to speak their opinion, and I couldn't agree with Icey and Splashy more. 00:30, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think this rule would stop people from speaking their minds. It'd just stop them from breaking the rules repeatedly. Look, can we just simplify it? Just have it say: repeat offenders of the guidelines may be subjected to temporary or permanent ban depending on the severity of the case. Does that sound good? 03:21, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

What would be considered bad enough to be an offense, and who would be watching? This is a wiki, not a school, where there are tons of people to keep an eye on a small amount of people. It's the other way around. Someone's bound to get away with not listening to the rules. 03:26, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

I wanted to add a point. Some of you express concern over getting a strike if you make a little goof or a God-honest mistake (this was discussed also). No, if you made a God-honest mistake and you seriously didn't know it was wrong then you will not be punished for it! It's not cruel and we're not going to punish you for something stupid. It'd be along the lines if you attacked someone's image, did something repeatedly that you were told not to do, stuff like that. 03:27, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

On the Making of Rules
Guys, here's the deal: If you want to make a new rule that can limit or exclude people from membership of a project (a project that excludes general wiki members from participating almost wholesale already) I think the rule needs to go through careful and complete discussions. On the wiki, where everyone who is a part of the project (and of the wiki) can participate. It's one thing to rush a rule when it's effecting a completely new area of the wiki (like the chat) and another to rush it when it will effect people who are a part of a project that has run for over five years.

In short: As sysop of this wiki, unless you can show me a substantial majority of the membership of this project, and endorsement from your Senior Project members, I will stand by the throwing out of the rule. You want to create a strike system, do it properly and discuss the hell out of it so that it's fair, justified, and you have the support of the people effected by the new rule.

20:05, October 24, 2011 (UTC)