Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

=Discussion=

Badgerpaw - Badgerfang?
K, I know probably no one's read it yet, but after Badgerpaw's death, they refer to him as Badgerfang, at least more than once. Would this be enough to have him renamed as Badgerfang? 00:33, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

Oooooooh, would that mean he gets a warrior image as well? xD That would be amazing. Anyways, if he's //called// Badgerfang, then I don't see why not. As long as it can be cited... and I used the browse inside and found at least three mentions. That's good enough for me.

Sorry, but I don't think that that's enough, he never had a ceremony, and it was basically a nickname. If we did that, then we might as well make Heathertail a leader charart and categorize her as a leader, from the game she was playing when she was an apprentice. Sorry, but that's my opinion. =3 00:42, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Now that I'm finished reading the book, I think his page should be renamed, after his death they only call him Badgerfang. 21:54, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

That still doesn't make it more than an honored nickname. Badgerpaw died an apprentice, technically still a kit. Unless he was seen in StarClan as a warrior and there he answers to the name Badgerfang or something, I wouldn't change his page name. 22:39, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

I say no as well. There was no ceremony; Flintfang only called him Badgerfang after he died. Just because Yellowfang (wow, a lot of -fangs here) called him Badgerfang does not mean that it is his official name. It was done to honour him. 02:59, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Flintfang does say, however, that he gave him his warrior name before he died. It doesn't say a nickname, or anything of the sort. It actually says his warrior name.

Well I haven't read it to really understand the situation enough, but if it really did say what cloudy said, then I'd fully support making that his name. 18:59, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

Wait, so what the heck would his rank be after that? I don't believe he was ever made an official warrior, even if he got a new name, however he did get the name. And currently he has a switch template between kit and apprentice, since he was still kit age. So would he have a switch between warrior and kit then? Or all three? o.o 19:15, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

I read that part today, and I fully believe that he should be considered a warrior. A medicine cat's word is about as law-abiding as a leader or deputy, and Flintfang asked her if it was ok, in which she replied that it was, and no cat questioned them. I think that even Brokenstar nodded his head in agreement. 23:16, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

I think that he could be renamed so that he is 'Badgerfang', but I'm not sure about the image situation. 01:14, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

If he would get the page renamed then I think he deserves a warrior image. x3 04:34, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

Well after thinking this through a bit, I think he definitely should get a warrior image if we're changing his pagename and listing him with a warrior name. The question is, he was still a kit, not even apprentice age, so what should be done about his switch template he has now? Should it switch between kit and warrior? 18:56, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure a switch between a kit and warrior would be best. 00:30, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

Sooo, what's going on with this, guys? Have we come to a conclusion?

I think so... 05:21, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

I'm still not convinced. You guys, we've read the full details of Badgerpaw's death. I know Vicky said to trust the SE's over the Field Guides, but nothing in the SE really contradicts what we saw of Badgerpaw's death in Code of the Clans. Flintfang didn't give him a dying apprentice ceremony. All we know is that Badgerpaw told his mentor that he wanted to be called Badgerfang in StarClan and then he immediately died. And, from what we can see in Yellowfang's Secret, Flintfang honors that wish and calls him Badgerfang, but that still doesn't mean he was a warrior. He never completed his training and he did not have a dying apprentice or warrior ceremony as far as we've seen. I'm fine with listing him with Badgerfang as an unofficial post-death honored nickname, but I don't think the page name should be changed or that a warrior charart should be made. 16:46, December 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, in terms of the warrior image: the warrior blanks clearly show an adult cat, which Badgerpaw was not. 16:47, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

But it doesn't change the fact that Yellowfang acknowledged the name, as did Brokenstar, I believe. A medicine cat's word means just as much as a leader's does, at least in the Clans it does.

Also in terms of images, the apprentice blank also shows a 6 moon+ cat (looks more like 9 or so to me honestly...), which Badgerpaw certainly was not also... .-. 12:11, December 4, 2012 (UTC)

I would just like to call it as I see it here; just want to throw my 2 cents in so we can get this wrapped up. I think Flintfang maybe sent him to StarClan after having done some form of a "dying apprentice ceremony", as Bluestar did on Brightpaw/Lostface. Only there was no leader present. (If I remember correctly Where's Code of the Clans when you need it ) The title of the CotC section is also called the smallest warrior, but I doubt that means anything =/ Yes, he's definetly too young for an image; the images do show full-grown cats. But Yellowfang and Flintfang both called him Badgerfang.

And if we were to rename the page, why not have a redirect page? There's an idea. Or at least, a decent one. 03:27, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

No, in The Smallest Warrior Flintfang did not perform any ceremony. 03:29, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

However he said in YS (I believe. I haven't actually read the book) that he gave him the name Badgerfang before he went to StarClan. And that he went to StarClan as a warrior. Both of those things clearly contradict CotC. So we can't just go by what CotC says, since there is a contradiction. I'm not sure which we should go by, but you can't say it didn't happen cause we didn't see it in CotC, since clearly Flintfang's saying things happened that we didn't see. 21:28, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

All he says is he gave Badgerpaw the name. Not that he performed any ceremony. I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced we should present it as anything more than a nickname that was honoured by a couple of cats. Nothing in Yellowfang's Secret contradicts CotC. And on the next page after Flintfang says this, Brokenstar says "That's a shame he would have made a great warrior", meaning he wasn't a warrior. Even though Brokenstar acknowledges the name, or at least he doesn't correct Yellowfang when she calls Badgerpaw by it, he still doesn't regard Badgerpaw as a warrior. 23:00, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

I'd just like to point out that warrior name does not necessarily mean warrior. Rainfur had a warrior name, but he was a rogue. Pricklenose did, too. You could even say elders count for having a warrior name but not being one. I think he could just be considered an apprentice that has the name of Badgerfang since that's clearly what he was called. Not every apprentice has to have "paw" at the end of their name to be one. Boulder is a prime example, and even if he is a SkyClan cat, so is Egg. 21:48, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

What Breezy said there^ is a prime reason for us to change Badgerpaw's name to Badgerfang. There have been a number of cats who have been rogues and loner, and had warrior names, or leader names for that (Spiderstar). Apprentices don't necessarily have to have "-paw" anyway, like Boulder and Egg. So I'm for changing Badgerpaw's page name o3o. 10:15 Tue Feb 5

What's going on with this, guys?

I think it should be voted on. I still disagree. Rainfur had a name that was like a warrior's name, but he was still a rogue at the time. Pricklenose and Lowbranch lived the warrior life, but were not part of a Clan. Badgerpaw and Flintfang are, and are therefore constrained to the laws of a Clan. We have no confirmation that Flintfang ever gave Badgerpaw and semblance of a dying apprentice ceremony and if you want to go by honored nicknames then you might as well list "Jay" in Jayfeather's charcat and "Sweet" in Sweetpaw's. 216.57.241.236 17:40, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Why does he need a ceremony to be called Badgerfang? Why isn't it enough that he was called Badgerfang repeatedly after his death, acknowledged by both Yellowfang and Brokenstar? He's like the opposite of Millie, who went through her warrior ceremony without changing her name. A warrior name doesn't necessarily equal warrior. Rainfur is a valid example, since Firestar even said he was confirming his warrior name. I don't think he needs a warrior charart, but his page name should be changed. 21:35, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Except, as I pointed out above, after Badgerpaw's death Brokenstar, while not objecting to the name, says that he would have made a good warrior. Meaning he was not a warrior. It's just a nickname. And Rainfur was not part of a Clan and not bound by the rules of one, same as Lowbrance and Pricklenose. Having a warrior name doesn't make you a warrior. Or should we give Heathertail a leader charart and Lionblaze a deputy charart? 216.57.241.162 04:10, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not saying that he needs to be added as a warrior and I just said that warrior name =/= warrior. His page name should be changed, because that is clearly his name after his death. Jay and Sweet were one-time uses, but Badgerfang was called such several times. He was still an apprentice, but he was an apprentice by the name of Badgerfang. 17:23, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

Join
I want to join. --Aprilfeather (talk) 20:24, March 28, 2013 (UTC)Aprilfeatger--Aprilfeather (talk) 20:24, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Please read the guidelines and refer to the FAQ if needed. Welcome to the project, Aprilfeather. 03:20, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

SkyClan Ancestors
Dunno if this goes here...but I was just wondering why there isn't a SkyClan ancestor category? They're seperate, I believe, and there's a category for StarClan cats and Tribe of Endless Hunting cats. Just wondering. 01:20, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Well, technically they're a faction of StarClan separated by space, are they not? SkyClan is still a Clan, they just live away from the other Clans. SkyClan's ancestors and StarClan reunited in Firestar's Quest and still mingle often. Leafstar got stalked by Spottedleaf just as much as Firestar did, if I remember SkyClan's Destiny correctly. 01:43, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

They're not called 'That Part of StarClan That Has SkyClan Cats', they're referred to as a different set of ancestors, despite the face that they reuinted in Firestar's Quest. StarClan and SkyClan's Ancestors are the same, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to have a category for them. 08:43 Tue Feb 5

What's going on with this?

I think a category would be good, they are still called SkyClan ancestors or something to that effect in SkyClan's Destiny, and they aren't called StarClan, it's the same thing as when we moved the Half Moon page. (Speaking of that I need to start a discussion on it) 22:32, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

So guys, what are we doing with this? 01:21, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

I like the idea of the category for them, if they aren't called StarClan. 04:46, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Maplewhisker
Okay, so apparently this was discussed and I was being an idiot and archived it far too early for anything to really be said. It's the context of which the name Maplestar is used in Code of the Clans, and whether or not it should allow her page to be moved.
 * "SkyClan would be safe under Maplestar's leadership. And Robinwing would suggest that a new rule be introduced to the warrior code: that deputies replaced leaders when they lost their ninth life, as the cats most used to leadership and dealing with rival Clans."

It's talking like it happened in the future, or something close to that. I wouldn't normally say that she would get it....but it also mentions Robinwing suggesting a new part of the warrior code...so that's what throws me off. Since it wasn't really an entire discussion, I think it should be talked about. I moved the page, but felt uncomfortable and wrong in doing so, so I moved it back. What do you guys think?

I'd like some comments on this, please, if no one minds.

I think it should be moved back to Maplestar, the context sounds firm enough to have a cite for it, and with a cite the page would be moved anyway, so yeah. Sorry if I made absolutely no sense. x3  22:27, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

You made perfect sense to me, Duck. The context is firm, and it's got the support from part of the warrior code to back it up.

I agree, it should be moved. With a cite like that, there's evidence for it to be moved back to Maplestar. ^; Bb  un   legs  00:57, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Thistleclaw: Tabby Alt or Partial Ddescription?
Ok, I'm not planning to join, but this is the best place to bring this up. This has been on my mind for a while, but I was unsure of where to bring it up (and I still am), but in The Last Hope on pages 159 and 288 and somewhere in Night Whispers (can't remember where), Thistleclaw is called a dark tabby, and he got an alt for it. However, it wasn't specified what kind of dark tabby, which I think means that he is a dark gray tabby, but I'm not sure. What do you think? original discussion found here, if you want to look at it. 22:42, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

As I said, he's also got another alt for it, where he's called a dark brown tabby. But, he's specifically called a "dark brown tabby". I do believe even Vicky said she'd imagined him as a dark brown tabby, and I think the mistake in BP reflects on that... Who's to say that this isn't the same kind of mistake? Regardless, we're kinda assuming it means "dark gray".... 

Comments, guys?

I think we mentioned something about how soon it is mentioned, and isn't it mentioned much later in the books? And she did say brown, why would it change to gray? I think it should just stay an alt 22:53, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

I agree that it should stay, she has said brown before, and anyway, the default color for tabbies are brown, so even if he was described as a dark tabby, he has been called a dark brown tabby more than once, I, also, think that it should stay as a mistake. 22:30, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

I agree what the others said. I don't think we should assume that he was called a dark gray tabby rather than a brown one ^^;. Bb un   legs  00:53, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Half Moon
Yeah, so I don't have the book yet, but from hat I've read in the browse inside and in the spoilers, Half Moon is only called Stoneteller in The Sun Trail. So I think that e should move her page back to Stoneteller (Ancient) because we actually see what her tribemates(or whatever they were called) called her. I'm bad at starting discusions. Dx  22:39, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

However, after death, she was called Half Moon, and I do believe for names, we go what they were most recently called in the timeline. Which, these are long before the modern arcs. I believe her name should stay as Half Moon, as that's what she was called post-death.

Yes, but if I remember correctly, only Jayfeather called her that, and Jayfeather knew her long before she became a sharpclaw, it's like if you have a friend that is known by a nickname throughout school, and later in life you see them again, you'll probably call them by that nickname, it's the name that you'd called them for so long, even if they go by their first or middle name now. But here we have multiple cats calling her Stoneteller, not just one calling her Half Moon. I don't know, that's just my opinion. owo 23:18, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, no. She was called Half Moon by Bluestar. Not just Jayfeather. That's why I said that. If it were just Jayfeather, I could understand it being a nickname. But, someone who probably didn't even really know her also called her Half Moon. Which makes me think that upon a Stoneteller's death, they revert to the name they originally had before they became Stoneteller.

Or we could do what we did with the original four leaders and list her under the most recently used name (recently as in on the canon timeline and not recently in terms of publication) but on her page (in her description at least) list both names. And next to her Healer rank on her charcat list both Teller of Pointed Stones and Half Moon. Seems like a simple compromise. We know for certain that in the afterlife we've never seen her called anything but Half Moon by anyone. And we know that in life all but Lion's Roar called her Stoneteller. So it seems to be the best compromise. 216.57.241.236 17:07, March 13, 2013 (UTC) (Shelly signed out because Verizon is a butt)

Stranger
Would "the stranger", who appeared in pages 163-164 in The Sun Trail get a page? He has a description, gender, and rank named, and did affect the plot in a way (he was the one who informed of the traveling cats that there were rogues living on the other side of the Highstones, and even told them that was what the kittypets called them), but no name. I'd like to see what others think about this. Bb un   legs  21:02, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

Moving Sky (Leader)
I think this is pretty much the same case as Half Moon's name. Based on Cloudstar's Journey, the name of Clear Sky is used in place of Sky or Skystar. Since there isn't a spot on the timeline for Code of the Clans, and either way that one story takes place before Cloudstar's Journey, should his page be moved to Clear Sky? 20:55, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I think we should wait until the other books are released to move the page. Vicky seemed to acknowledge the name "Sky", so perhaps there are plans to change the names in later books? Regardless, I think his page should stay how it is, if only for the fact that it's too early, imho, to make a call.

How is it too early though? That's like saying an apprentice shouldn't have their apprentice name on a page because they'll be a warrior soon. I don't see the point in waiting potentially three years before Clear Sky becomes Sky, so we might as well move him now, if we're going to do so. 16:58, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

That's not the same thing, though, Breezey. With Clear Sky, we don't know if he kept the name after settling down, or if he changed it. Changing his page name to Clear Sky would just be us assuming that he kept his name the entire time. But, at the same time, he is called Clear Sky by the members of SkyClan. Although we all know how inconsistent the series is. Regardless, I never said that we needed to wait like /three/ years before moving it. ._. Maybe just until another book is released or perhaps until Vicky or Kate say something to support or go against him being called Clear Sky.

Minor Characters
As in a previous discussion here, we had conflicting opinions about extremely minor characters like Dappletail's Kit (which is still on consideration for the chopping block). However, it seemed like a popular idea to merge these characters into one page. So there's two options to go with, either define the terms on what qualifies a minor character to receive a page, or figure out the format of the one minor characters page option. Please explain which option is more beneficial and why. 14:47, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

I like the idea of having a page for minor characters, mainly just to group them all together and be done with it, so we don't have all these tiny articles, and I believe we could redirect the searches to that page. But I am unsure as to how we would go about making it. Probably something like Wikipedia does for it's characters in books? I don't think we need any infoboxes, just a summary of the characters, which could be arranged by series and book. 17:20, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

I like a minor character page, because imho, characters like Dappletail's Kit, who have no effect on the plot and are just mentioned don't need a full page to themselves, it'd fit perfectly into a minor characters page. 17:21, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

I think only the minor characters who effected the plot in some way (such as Petal's mum) should get their own page. What good is it to have pages for characters who didn't even effect the plot in some way? I'd say we should define the terms on what qualifies on a minor character to get their own page, so that those who don't effect the plot get merged into a single page, while others who have recieve their own. Bb un   legs  18:48, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

I'd think characters like Leafstar's Mother and Sol's Father (and possibly even Shellheart's Grandfather) would still retain their own page, as they are, at least Sol's Father's case, part of the plot of at least one book. But characters like Dappletail's kit really don't need any form of a page whatsoever, as they are not vital to the plot whatsoever. Would this also apply to cats like Leaftail, who is an allegiances only character and only mentioned outside of it once?

I believe that cats like Leaftail should also get merged too. Despite appearing in the allegiances, they have contributed nothing to the plot whatsoever, and were probably only mentioned a few times in the series. Bb un   legs  19:28, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Except allegiance-only characters demonstrate the population of a Clan/cat group as well as have a specific name. Plus, this page would turn out to be huge if we included all allegiance-only characters. I think confinements around what should be have a page and should not have a page is a specific name or if they give clear motive, responsibility, or influence over (a) particular character(s) who effects the plot in a deliberate way. 02:44, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

=Nominations=

Dappletail's Kit ~ Silver Nomination
Created his article from scratch. Improvements to be made? 07:44 Sun Apr 7

We have never come to a consensus on Dappletail's Kit's page. The conversation was resolved due to another idea of having a complete page of minor characters. Sol's Twoleg, Petal's and Fox's Mother, etc. all contribute a bit of something to the plot or explain more about a certain character. Dappletail's Kit does not. However, please focus more on the kit and it would help to combine sentences. This also may be put on hold since there's still conflicting opinion about this page. 14:43, April 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Those cats contributed to the plot of a book but, but, this kit actually did. He's used to explain why Snowkit's blind, so despite the mere few sentences he appears in, without him, there's no real explanation as to why Snowkit's blind and no reason for a reader to go Google ( or Bing -trollface- ) it to see if it actually happens in real cats. So he does have a bit more of a purpose than just a background character. We've pages for allegiance only characters who don't appear in the main story at all, so why not a kit who's mentioned for realistic relief? 07:02 Mon Apr 8


 * Allegiance characters have actual names and are mentioned in the book, even if it's just the allegiances. It's the fact that they actually have names and demonstrate the diversity and population of a Clan. Also, Dappletail's kit doesn't necessarily explain why Snowkit's blind. Dappletail could have explained that white cats with blue eyes are often born deaf without presenting her other kit. While Dappletail's kit provides a bit of proof, she could also have used any other white kit with blue eyes that was known to be deaf. Especially since it must be commonly known since you can't prove something like that with two cases. 15:48, April 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * So a name's enough to get a character a page, even if they're there for not even a sentence in the book? This kit was actually used for something. Without using the kit, the cats with would have no actual proof of the cats with white fur and blue eyes are born deaf, unless there was another cat like this. The thing is though, they used this kit and no other cat, so he does actually offer something to the storyline, even if it's only a small bit of info. 14:44 Sat Apr 13


 * Berry, by that definition every dog that's chased the cats on a journey, or a random cat that Firepaw fights in Into the Wild, or Storm's two unnamed kits, or Mapleshade's kits, etc. would get a page. They contributed to the plot about as much as Dappletail's kit did. The only difference I see is that the kit had a description and was only mentioned by himself. 15:48, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Frost ~ Silver Nomination
aiee i kinda like this dork c: Comments? Bb un   legs  19:18, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Nightheart - Silver Nomination
Very, very minor character. Comments? 02:22, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Leaf (DTC) - Silver Nomination
Another very very minor character. Comments? =D  02:22, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Stoatfur ~ Silver Nomination
He's pretty minor, and all possible quotes don't really show his personality that well. So, comments?  19:58 Saturday April 13 2013

Acornpaw ~ Silver Nomination
I'm going to tackle a few CJ characters... He doesn't speak all that much, so there aren't really any good quotes. Comments?  13:10 Sunday April 14 2013

Hazelwing ~ Silver Nomination
Finished her history. So, comments?  17:10 Sunday April 14 2013

Perhaps add another quote or two? Bb un   legs  19:39, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

She doesn't really speak at all and her mentions are brief. I don't think I can find one. Since I don't have much time now, I'll look for one later.  19:58 Sunday April 14 2013

Okay, I could only find one quote. The rest of her mentions are really small and she barely speaks. If I was to quote them, it wouldn't really show her personality, or it would be mainly about her kits.  23:01 Sunday April 14 2013

Misty Water ~ Silver Nomination
Comments? I love her charart .o. Bb  un   legs  01:57, April 16, 2013 (UTC)