Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Tweak Nominations: I am going to sound like a total idiot...
Alright, as you all know, right now I am the sole overseer of the Tweak Nominations page, and I'm supposed to nominate someone to help me. This is going to sound so horrible, I know, but I haven't been active enough to know who would be the right person for the job to help me. There are so many new people, and it's hard for me to keep track, and I don't even know who would want the position. I know this is unorthodox, but members that are eligible and would like this position, let me know and I'll make my decision. This way, it'll be a lot easier to pick the right person who is interested. Thanks, and again, please don't brick me for not just picking someone XD  15:15, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

We respect your desicion Ibly, not everyone can do their jobs. :) I could probably do this, but if the featured charart vote passes, since I'm one of the users in charge of that, I'll strike my interest for fairness. :) 06:29, 15, 06, 2012

I'm interested owo I can do this but it's your choice. 06:38 Fri Jun 15

Don't want to sound too greedy or something, but I would like to try this out. '^^  20:06, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

I know I'm the new SW, but if I am allowed, I too would like to try this out. 20:24, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Man, now I'm not sure who I should choose...you'd all be good choices  15:31, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Have you chosen your replacement? 12:11, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Apprentice Tutorial: Paint.NET
On the apprentice tutorials there are some pictures of the tool bar in Gimp and Pixlr. But I also think that somebody should do that same thing with Paint.NET. A lot of people use paint and if they´re having problems they can refer back to it. Thoughts? 21:18, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

I think that there should be a picture of the tools for paint.net. Even photoshop and sumopaint. I remember there was discussion about having sections for each program on the apprentice tutorials - what happened to that? o.o 03:28, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I remember that discussion. o.e It would help if there were pictures of the tools for all (well, most) of the editing programs, and I still support the "revamp" of the apprentice tutorials. 07:12, 14, 07, 2012

I'm not sure what happened to that discussion...but I know Paint.NET was mentioned in it... I think. If someone who knows what they're doing (and knows how to use Paint.NET) wants to go ahead and make something with the tools and stuff on it, go ahead. There might already be something on the wiki, I'm not sure. I'm strictly GIMP, and I don't have the patience (nor attention span xD) to help with tutorials.

So we agree that somebody should do it? And maybe other programs because our members have a very wide variety of programs to use. 16:54, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

I say go for it. 02:24, 15, 07, 2012

So do I. We want the best for our tutorials. ;) 18:52, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

What about the "revamp" of the tutorials? And, I think it would be good to also add the tools for sumopaint, and photoshop. 22:26, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

Well, if someone uses those editing programs, I say they could just go and add them into the tutorials. I remember a basic example of the revamp was ment to look like this. Maybe if several users want to work on it they could. 03:21, 16, 07, 2012

Possible Kit Chararts
So I noticed everyone was having kit blanks (ect.,) for like "inferring" (sorta) and I wondered if these two got kit images. "Get off him! Ratscar's my littermate." Snowbird is speaking by the way. I wasn't sure if they did, so what do you guys think? 23:10 Sun Jul 15

That sounds to me like implying that they were once kits. I don't see why not. Breeze whisker  23:52, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

Yep! Nice find! 01:56, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! 02:10 Mon Jul 16

I'm sorry but just saying characters are littermates isn't them mentioning when they were kits. It's talking about relation to them. It means nothing really. I honestly don't think characters should get kit images for being mentioned as littermates. I think we're simply taking this too far. 06:04, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

It's like saying any cat who's mother calls them their son or daughter should get a kit image. It's just silly, and in my opinion, very uneeded. 06:06, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. "Littermate" just means they were siblings. In past situations, if cats had remembered being in the nursery, then they'd get a kit charart. Adult cats call others littermates all the time. 16:01, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Loonie and Paleh on this one. I don't think it quite counts...there wasn't anything implying they were kits in that statement, imho.

I have to agree with Paleh and Loonie and Skye as well. The statement never mentioned them as kits. 16:58, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm... I think it can go either way with this one. I mean, Snowbird is kind of saying that they were kits together. But then again, I have to agree with Loonie and Paleh... But in my opinion, I believe they should get one. 20:09, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, so I found some examples of "littermate = siblings". This is just from Sign of the Moon.

"My mother was your littermate." (Stoneteller and Bird's mother)

Foxleap dashed up to the edge of the hole, leaning over to see his littermate. (Icecloud)

There was comfort for both of them in the touch of a littermate's pelt. (Jayfeather and Lionblaze)

Worry for her littermate pricked through Dovewing's pelt. (Ivypool)

"She's lucky to have such a great littermate." (Bumblestripe and Briarlight)

Jayfeather didn't want to travel with the cat who had lied to him and his littermates. (Hollyleaf and Lionblaze)

"Well, mind you stay clear of that farm where your littermates an' that nuisancy WindClan apprentice met the dogs." (Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, and Lionblaze)

Bumblestripe protested, drawing his tail down his littermate's flank. (Briarlight)

"No good cat would be jealous of an injured littermate." (Blossomfall and Briarlight)

He flung himself at his littermate. (Strong Pounce and Lapping Wave)

I think this is enough examples to determine that littermate = sibling, not kit. Ratscar and Snowbird should not get them. 20:29, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. None of those examples said that they were kits. They should not get chararts. 22:34, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Agreeing. It doesn't mention that they were shown or mentioned to be as a kit, just as siblings, so I say no charart. 05:43, 17, 07, 2012

If it doesn't mention that they are in the nursery/ mentioned int eh kit rank, I don't think they should get one. 02:39, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Does the majority agree that they do not get the chararts? 03:31, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going with no, as littermate is basically another way of saying siblings or whatnot. Skt Omnia vincit amor  13:41, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

I don't agree with you guys,but (again) I'm outnumbered. Whatever, decline those images already up. 15:15, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Ivy, if you had some good points to support your argument, then we could continue the discussion. But plenty of us have made points as to why they shouldn't get one (I've provided evidence from the books) and all you've said is that you disagree. So don't get defensive about an argument you haven't supported. 16:20, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

A little late coming in, but if these don't get a charart for basically being to vague, then Ivytail shouldn't get one either. Since, for instance, she could have been a rogue, kittypet, or loner and gone directly into being an apprentice. That's just as vague as "littermate." Also, littermate could mean both sibling and being in the nursery together, since it implies they were born at the same time. This language is tends to have the same word meaning different things, after all. It is entirely possible. So this really could go either way. Breeze whisker  17:47, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

I really don't think that's the same thing, Breeze. Ivytail got one for being mentioned as a new apprentice at a Gathering; which has nothing to do with this discussion. It's the same basic concept that allowed Mistystar to gain an apprentice image, as well as Toadstep and Rosepetal (not because we knew their mentors), expect instead of being mentioned as new warriors, they were mentioned as new apprentices. Ivytail has nothing to do with this discussion, and the kit image is warranted.

Ok fine. The word in itself refers to the time that the cats were beside their mother's belly as a litter. They've also used the words "brother and sister", and if it only meant "brother or sister", wouldn't they have no need of the other words? I just feel calling them your littermate has a very deep connotation to the time where they were innocent and defenseless (kits) and that is why I feel they qualify for kit chararts. I'm sorry, I haven't been thinking clearly lately, but there's your explanation  15:51, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

She does have to do with this discussion since she is also getting a kit charart for something just as vague as "littermate." Like I said, she could have have been something other than a kit before being an apprentice. It's not like that's never happened before. Let's think of who's story the entire first arc was about. Also, Mistystar, Toadstep, and Rosepetal were seen as kits before so it is slightly different. Since there has never been a kit in the series that has gone directly to being a warrior, it would be assumed that they had been apprentices in the gap of the books, since it is also assumed that they were in the Clan the whole time training to become a warrior. Ivytail could have come from outside the Clan. We've never seen her as a kit either, and she's never been mentioned as being in the nursery. This is the same argument that appears to be being used against Snowbird and Ratscar getting chararts. If Ivytail gets one, then these should also. They aren't any more vague than hers, and if anything, less so since littermate still implies that they were kits together, even if it also means siblings. Breeze whisker  05:19, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Ivy: But it's never been used that way. It's always been used in a way that it can be interchanged with "sibling", and the meaning would stay the same.

As for Ivytail, that's actually a completely different matter. But even if she had been a loner or whatever before joining the Clans, she'd still be less than six months old, and thus, a kit. 15:59, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

"Littermate: One member of a pair or group of animals born in the same litter." Official definition of a littermate. Like I said, the word in itself is referring to the litter that their mother had. Referring that they were once kits. And no, from what I've seen they only say littermate in a strong connotation, it really does mean something for them to mention that they were once vulnerable kits together. I really think if cats get chararts for just having their mentor named and cats getting queen pixils for being a cat's mother, I don't see why the useage of littermate wouldn't warrant an image. They are all similar situations and are all just about as vague since they were never seen. 16:42, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Ohlook I'm back They still shouldn't get kit images for that. Littermate does mean sibling, however you put it, and that's something that they always are. They don't stop being littermates once they're adults, and therefore that has no mentioning of kit behind it. For the other images that have been made, such as Ivytail, the characters have just gone from one rank to another. Meaning they were just in that rank and should get an image for it. If we make images for littermates, we also have to make them for normal mentions of being siblings, and mentions of parent/child relationship mentions. No. I don't agree. They shouldn't get images. So that's my opinion. 17:19, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Well then I don't agree with any cat getting an image for a rank they weren't seen as. 18:18, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Ivy, we agreed on those a long time ago. If you didn't want them, you should've said something then, because now there's a lot of them.

Also, official definition of twin: "One of two children or animals born at the same birth." Sound the same as littermate? Because that's what littermate means: twin. 18:36, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Breeze here. Ivytail, what if she wasn't six moons or under old before she "joined" the Clans. She could still be a new apprentice without being six moons old - younger, or even older (Like Crookedstar). Or maybe she was around Millie's age - but became an apprentice because she was untrained. It's assuming that she would get a kit image.

And honestly, I don't agree with these characters getting images: Mistystar getting an apprentice image, Ivytail, ect. You guys have no proof that they were these ranks. No actual proof. Because, who knows! Anything can happen! Mistystar might have not been an apprentice at all; she might've skipped being a apprentice. Sounds ridiculous, but you have no proof that this is false; nor true. Rosepetal and Toadstep are, however, a different case. Their mentors were specified; they must have been apprentices, right? Actually no, that might not even be true either. I'm not 100% sure about them getting images, and saying that they would without being sure, would be an assumption. 15:44, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

Just figured I'd mention this, Toadstep and Rosepetal do get images, no matter what the outcome of this discussion about the other characters is. I just checked TFA to check what it said there and it says specifically "two of our apprentices have been made warriors". So yeah, they get them. 23:28, July 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Alright. I guess they get images then. 07:03, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

But what about the others? 14:55, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Toadstep and Rosepetal should definatly get the chararts, but we are just assuming the ranks held for Ivytail etc. There are many possiblities of combinations of rank that could've been held during the time between birth and becoming a warrior. It may sound crazy to go straight from being a kit to a warrior, but we already know that the Erin's don't pay attention to whats realistic, so anything's possible. 08:50, 01, 08, 2012

Resignation
Please read this. Thank you. 16:24, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

Slant
Do not tell me to take this to PC, because it's not a description issue. It's solely to do with the images. Not the rank. Not the description.

Okay, guys. As I was working on Slant's article for PC... I realized something. Actually, Loonie pointed this out to me as well, and I kinda agree. Brightspirit has an image for her article, despite us not knowing her actual rank (no, I'm not getting into another debate about that, just using it as an example), so wouldn't Slant be the same thing? We have a description, and a very neat one at that. We also know that he's in the Tribe of Endless Hunting.... Wouldn't that qualify him for at least some sort of image? Brightspirit has one, as does Braveheart and Shiningheart (actually, she has two because of the queen image rule, but that's justified). I'm not entirely sure.... Don't shoot me, as I'm just asking. 8D

Actually, I don't see why not. We could probably give him a Prey-hunter or Cave-guard rank. I agree 100% that he should get an image. We have a perfectly good description, lets not waste it. 00:48, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see why not, considering that Brightspirit has one. But are we just going to give him the warrior one? Deciding which rank would be an issue... 00:51, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

It can't be a warrior name, as that's a Clan-only rank. Paleh brought up a good point on Skype... We really can't, since we don't know if he was a cave guard or a prey hunter. He's not an Ancient cat, as they use two names instead of one name.

What about Rock though? Wasn't he with the Ancients and only has one name? (idk, dont kill me) 00:54, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

Rock was before the Ancients, I do believe. However, you're right, to an extent. I asked Kate on her fb page to see if we can possibly get an answer. Rowan's right; we have a description, and with one like his, it really shouldn't go to waste. =3

I don't agree with making this image. Though we know a description and we know that he's apart of the Tribe of Rushing Water, we don't know whether he's a to-be, prey-hunter, or cave-guard and neither can we assume that. We don't assume. Period. And this sounds like we're about to assume a rank for Slant despite not knowing. 03:14, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

We assumed with Brightspirit, Braveheart, and Shiningheart, and //that's// why I asked. I'm not in favor, nor against it. I'm just asking. Simple as that.

We shouldn't assume the rank of any cat. So it should be obvious where my stance is. 03:23, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, I'm half and half on this. Actually, we don't even know how old Brightspirit was when she died. For all we know, she couldv'e been a kit that died on the SkyClan's journey. She couldv'e been an apprentice who died in a fight. She couldv'e been an elder, for all we know. We're making a pretty wild assumption with Brightspirit, and we'd be doing the same if we made an image for Slant. So unless we can get a proper cite for his rank, Slant shouldn't get an image, imho. 03:28, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

I believe that Cloudy asked this before we realized that, being in the Tribe, Slant could have more than one rank. So I think this discussion is closed until Kate answers (if she ever does). 03:46, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I thought he was an Ancient cat, not part of the Tribe. I asked this before Loonie and the others pointed out the name. xD So yeah, this is pretty much decided unless Kate answers my question.

Policy Overhauls
Hey all.

As a few of you already know, I've been writing up proposed overhauls of this wiki's policies. I need as much input from as many people as possible to perfect these policies in ways that suit the entire community, so I'm posting this message in every project in the hopes that some of you will be interested in effecting the rules we live by here.

So, if you're interested in helping out, please come here and leave your thoughts.

Thanks! 15:13, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Softpaw/To-be
I believe this issue has been brought up before - by Paleh I think - but I think it needs to be addressed again. Why is it that sharpclaws/cave-guards/prey-hunters have different blanks but the softpaws/to-bes don't? Now before you say that they're essentially the same rank, Clan apprentices appear to have the same duties and yet they have different blanks. In addition, softpaws and to-bes are completely different in themselves. Softpaws were part of the Ancient Clans, not modern Clans, and instead of a ceremony, they got to risk dying in some tunnels to become a sharpclaw. To-bes are part of the modern Tribe and appear to just have a ceremony to go from to-be to cave-guard/sharpclaw. They are two totally different ranks and should be treated as such. 19:39, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't say an apprentice and a to-be is exactly alike, though in general, they share many things in common. I also support this idea because the Ancients and the Tribe are two different things, and the ranks are, as well. And as it was pointed out, the sharp-claws have different blanks than the cave guards and prey-hunters, so, overall, I support this. 19:41, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with this as well. To-bes and Softpaws are not the same thing, therefore they should each have their own blank. It's like giving loners and rogues the same blanks, when they're clearly not. Loonie's brought up some excellent points.