Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Redoing Images?
Okay, FEEL FREE to COMPLETELY disagree with me. But anyways, I'm starting not to like the rule, when someone redos an image, they have to do the rest of the character's images. I know it's a fine idea and all, but people sometimes don't follow that rule, and the images turns out fine. People actually don't follow that rule quite often. Besides, without the rule, it would give more warriors a chance to tweak an image. Bottom line, I'm not so happy with this rule, and there are so many rules in PCA. 01:13, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. I might not be a warrior but when I am one, that is one rule we can do with out. I just want to tweak charart's so i know how to do those certain types of cats, like white's or tabbies or torties, and others. I don't want to have to follow taht because that limits the amout of charart's you can tweak and i find it unfair. Rain face &lt;3 01:16, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

To me, if you can copy the other artist's stripes or markings, you're fine. The user who has done the first image shouldn't have the act to focus on everything else. If you can copy, then do it, in my opinion. 01:24, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

How about asking permission from the person first before redoing an image that they were supposed to? (kinda like redoing an image & asking a lead) That way people wont bring the rule up when this occurs - 01:27, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I did that with Wildheart. I don't like this rule either, and we aren't exactly following it at the moment. Since it was created, we've violated it at least 10 times. 01:40, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I still like the idea, but maybe not make it so much a rule but more a basic good idea. So maybe, say that it's a good idea but not an actual rule. Other users would be given the chance to do characters that have been started by other users. i.e. Say I did Firestar's leader again but Stoneclaw decided to try his warrior. That'd be fine, but if the charart becomes to difficult, the other artist could be asked to do it since it only takes about 2-5 days to get approved. Thoughts? - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 01:47, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I can see what you guys mean, but, this is in place too to prevent a person from redoing an image then not doing the rest. Take me doing Goldenflower for example. I did a very complicated tabby pattern for her. Now, if I had just left it, maybe somebody else might do her queen. But they get frustrated because 1) they don't have her base colors and/or 2) It's too complicated for them to perfect. Also, I would have been kind of frustrated with someone doing one of her images because I knew exactly how her stripes were supposed to look on both sides of her, and that's something else to take into consideration. I'm not saying we have to stick to the rule, but I do rather like it. I do like the idea of it being a guideline, but fights could break out if, say, I did Goldenflower's warrior, then somebody did Goldenflower's kit, and I had wanted to do all of her images and there was nothing to say who was right. 01:58, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I like Scarletwind's idea. So (another example) lets say I for some reason re-did my first image, Skyheart, and all of the other images had to be redone. Someone could as me if I could do one of the other images, and I'd reply either yes or no. If no one ever asked me if I could do one of the other images, then I'd automatically do it. How's that? I am terrible at explaining things, so if that was difficult to comprehend then tell me. 02:43, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Ivystripe and Scarletwind. I think that the rule should stay, because the artist who did one rank knows the style and has the colors, but if someone askes if they can re-do the image, the one who was re-doing all the other images had to reply a yes or a no. If they say yes, and the one now doing the rank with permission finds it too difficult, the original artist doing all the ranks can take over. 05:32, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if I like the idea of it being a rule, I think I like it being an idea. What do you guys think about this? 05:54, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I think an idea is better than a rule. 05:31, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Scarletwind. 05:12, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

I like Scarletwind's idea as well. 20:34, November 14, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

I like Scarletwinds ide too, but like Ivystripe said, it doesnt sovle the problem of having only one image done and the rest being left. 00:25, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps we should just stick with the rule, it stops problems if you ask me, although I can't really talk as I'm only an apprentice. As Ivystripe stated, the artist doing all the other ranks will find it a lot easier to do the other chararts. 05:07, Mon, Nov, 28, 2011

Alts
I've got a few questions on alts.

First off, would Lionblaze get an alt (after the apprentice blanks are finished of course) for his CotC picture? He looks more speckled than a tabby, however he DOES have very clear strips on his head (tabby M) and the tip of his tail. Normally I wouldn't ask this, but since Silverstream seems to be getting an alt for only having one stripe, I figured I'd ask.

Second of all, if a ginger cat that's DESCRIBED as a tabby is shown as a solid cat in the manga (in black and white, not on the cover) would they get an alt? I know all ginger cats have stripes, but if the cat is specifically described as a tabby, then shown as a solid in black and white, meaning you can't tell for sure if it's ginger or not, I would think they would. Like for example, Sharpclaw is a ginger TABBY, but is shown as a solid cat in the manga, whearas Billystorm is just a ginger cat (never described in book as a tabby) and he's shown as a solid cat. I think Billystorm wouldn't get one, because in the Erin's eyes, Billystorm very well could be ginger solid, but Sharpclaw is described as a tabby, but shown solid, so shouldn't he get an alt? Same with Jaggedtooth.

Also, just one last question, why was Ashfur tweaked to look like his CotC picture, but all the others got alts for them? Sorry for the long post. XD ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  10:44, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

I think if a ginger tabby cat is shown as a solid, then it should get an alt. I don't know why Ashfur got tweaked to look like the CotC picture, and I'm not sure about Lionblaze. 08:00, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

Lionblaze, I'm not sure about. Speckled tabby is different, so I'm leaning towards yes, but I want a couple more opinions. Ashfur, I got no idea why he looks like that, but he does look nice. As for ginger cats, I'm gonna say, no alts. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 03:07, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

I like how Ashfur looks too, I just wondered why it was different for all the other characters. XD As for the ginger cats, why not? We don't KNOW that they're ginger in the books since it's black and white, and they're shown as solid when they're originally described as tabbies in the book. So why wouldn't they? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  22:15, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

Lionblaze yes, ginger cats no. We already established Erins dont care for genetics, why would that change for the manga? 00:05, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

That's me point though! We don't KNOW that they're ginger in the manga! We just know they're described as ginger tabbies in the books, and then they're shown as solid grayscale cats! They're being shown as solid, which goes against they're description, regardless of the pelt color. Am I making any sense? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  13:05, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

With that kind of logic we can make a grayscale cat for every cat ever shown in the manga. 22:04, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

You're not getting my point here. They're shown as a solid instead TABBY and black and white. Not if it was color, and they were shown as ginger, it wouldn't matter, cause we have to make all chararts on here tabby. But since we don't know it's ginger, and it's shown as a solid cat, which is going against the description, I think they should get one. If it were a gray tabby, or even a brown tabby that was shown as solid in the manga, they'd get an alt. The only thing that stopped us from giving ginger cats an alt is that all ginger cats HAVE to have stripes. But since it's not clearly shown that the cat IS ginger in the alt, however it IS solid, we wouldn't have to make it a tabby, so therefore they would get an alt. I don't think anybody's understanding me, are they? -.- ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  23:59, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

I get your point, but the Erins dont care about genetics, the wouldnt start caring just for the manga. There isnt a colour we could give them anyway, Im not willing to say gray because then were saying every cat in a manga should get an alt, so even if i did agree that they deserved alts, theres not colour to make them. 00:03, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the erins don't care about genetics. I understand that. But they described them in the book as tabbies, then go against that in the manga. And why not make the gray? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  00:05, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Because before we know it people will be trying to make gray alts for all the characters. I get your point that if they were tabbies but called solid, they should, but we dont have a colour to go with so theres no way to make an alt. 00:14, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Well yeah, we don't really know what the colors are for any of the cats in the manga, but we don't know they're wrong, so they really shouldn't get alts. Why would people start making them? I don't understand. I would think the solid cats would get alts in gray, because that is technically what they're shown as. Since they need a color since they're getting an alt for a reason OTHER than the color, why would making them gray mean everybody would go and make gray alts for all cats? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  00:23, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

I think what Iceheart's trying to say is that even though it seems logical to assume that they would be ginger (if the manga was in colour) because they are described as ginger tabbies, you still don't know for sure. For all you know, the author of the manga would have completely screwed up and made them gray or brown or any other solid colour, for that matter. I don't think they should get alts. 02:13 Wed Nov 30

First batch of winners! And part two of the contest!
I'd like to announce the first batch of contest winners here:

Apprentices Spring: Fallowpounce Summer: Loudsplash Fall: Leopardclaw Winter: Mountainheart

Warriors and Leads Spring: Moonleaf Summer: BlueOrca & Scarletwind TIED Fall: Shellheart Winter: Ivystripe

Congrats, all of you!

Part two of the contest is here: User:Atelda/PCA Contest (Part 2) Submissions

(btw, I think it'd be appropriate is perhaps the winners were featured in the news part of the main page of PCA ^^ )

04:08, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I'll add it ^^ 04:44 Sat Nov 26

Can anyone enter still? 04:55, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

No, Wildfire. Only those listed above can enter. However, everyone can vote. xD 04:56, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Can I join? 04:56, November 26, 2011 (UTC)Hazeleye

No, only those that won part one can enter. But feel free to make a charart that fits the theme. ^^ 04:58, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Okay got it. 05:00, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Wha? I got TIED with Scarlet?! Ohoho, this second round is gonna be interestinnggg B) - 19:50, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Congratulations to all the winners and good luck in the next round! 22:17, Sat, Nov, 26, 2011 22:17, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

A Suggestion
Haha, not a day goes by when I don't get an idea about how to improve the project! This idea comes straight from Warriors, and I thought it would be a good idea now that we have the mentor system in place.

I'd like to propose the rule that no senior warrior can become deputy (and by extension, leader) without having mentored at least one apprentice to warrior level. I feel this will ensure that our leaders will be consistently more in touch with the projects members, from the apprentices to the leads, and that they gain a bit of wisdom that comes with teaching someone (you know, the same reasons warriors can't be deputies in the books without being mentors first). Of course, this rule would not be retroactive, meaning it would not apply to the current deputy and leader, but it would apply to all future leaders and deputies.

I got support for this on the chat, but I'd like to see if the project as a whole supports this before I propose it as a vote. Thanks! 05:11, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Hm. I like this idea. I don't see why not. You got my support, Shelly. 05:14 Sat Nov 26

Not everyone wants to mentor an apprentice. What if they're amazingly skilled, but don't want to mentor? It doesn't seem fair to me, mentoring doesn't suit some members' forte. 05:20, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

That's the point, Splash. Skill isn't everything. To be a leader of anything, you have to be able to handle many aspects of the thing you lead. 05:22, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm... I like this idea, but there are some problems with it as seen above ^ but we could find something else for users who don't want an apprentice... so yeah :) -- 06:02, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea. If the leader/deputy can manage to train somebody else to make chararts well, then you know they'll be able to help everybody in the project. It would show their patience and dedication. Making good chararts is one thing, it's a whole 'nother to be able to be patient enough with people well enough to lead anything. ~Breezewhisker~ 06:54, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I support! This is a great idea. ^^ I was thinking about it myself when we first put up the mentor program, but I just kinda dropped the idea after a while. XD However, what if the mentor did all they could, and was a great teacher, but their apprentice went inactive. It doesn't really seem fair to me in that case. They were willing to take on an apprentice and did a good job teaching them, but the apprentice decided to become inactive. Is there something we can do to get around that? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  09:24, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Great idea! Though I do support, there may be some problems, like the one Splash mentioned. Since we are connecting with the book here, can I just throw out a suggestion for the mentor program? I think that the leads should pair up the mentors and apprentices, like who would be the best match. In the series, cats just couldn't go up and ask for them to be mentors. (with an exception from Rainflower xD) Though there may be some complications with this, like if they don't have enough time or work and stuff, then they may be 'excused'. Sorry for my terrible explaining skills.. xD  14:59, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I like this idea too. If Splashpelt's problem happens, they could still be deputy shouldn't they? Same as Brambleclaw's situation. He didn't have an apprentice, but he was loyal and willing to protect ThunderClan whenever he could. If a sw hasn't had an apprentice, but they're still hard working and have great chararts, it wouldn't be fair for them to not become deputy. I still agree though, but maybe it would be better if the project didn't have too many rules.. 22:28, Sat, Nov, 26, 2011

If they don't want to mentor an apprentice, nothing anyone says or does is going to change that. We are in no way, shape or form going to force any member to take on an apprentice. In fact, as good of an idea this is, I don't support it all of the way. It shouldn't be mandatory for a user to mentor another in order to become a project lead. That's just stupid, and honestly, not very fair. What if they're not good at explaining things, or they just don't have the time or patience? If they don't want to mentor someone, they don't have to in order to become a lead. It's not fair. 22:32, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

It wouldn't be for becoming a lead, just for becoming a deputy and head of project. And my point is that our leaders should be able to do these things, should be able to explain to others how to do things and have the patience to do so as well. If they don't have the time for that, how would they have time to be an active leader? If a leader is inactive, it's bad for the entire project and they get bumped to be replaced by the deputy. That's just how it is, and I think it's fair. Also, Mistypebble, I suppose it could just say that the user needs to show good mentoring ability instead of having to mentor an apprentice to graduation. 22:40, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, now. I'm a lead, and I suck at explaining things. What does the leader being inactive have to do with users mentoring apprentices? Regardless, it's forcing those who want to become leader/deputy to mentor, even if they're not comfortable with it. 22:45, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I didn't mean senior warriors when I said leaders. >.> 22:46, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I knew what you meant, trust me. That's why I said what I did. Our current leader even said herself that she's not the best at explaining things, so does this mean she's not fit to be our leader? I don't think so. She's skilled, and fair. Having the ability to explain something should have nothing to do with it. 22:49, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I think both you and Iceheart are pretty good at explaining things, but I'm starting to agree that you shouldn't have to be good at explaining things to be a deputy/leader. -- 01:23, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

I think Shellheart's right. You need to have the skills that mentors need to become a leader or deputy, for all the reasons previously listed. Yes, Iceheart said she's not the best at explaining things, but she still applied to become a mentor, did she not? It's not just explaining things, although that is a necessary part of becoming somebody with authority. It's also being active enough to be there to help somebody through their first steps as an apprentice (although not every apprentice in the mentor program is an apprentice in PCA). It's having the patience not to get annoyed at somebody who really just doesn't get what's going on, and instead being gentle and helpful. I still support this idea. 03:26 Sun Nov 27

I see the logic behind this, but theres already a good number of requirements for being a lead, and i dont really think this is nessicary. Its a good idea, but not one we need. 00:27, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

And what are those requirements? As far as I've seen, deputies are just chosen by leaders, no eletion or voting. 00:38, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

She wasn't talking about the leaders and deputies, but a lead in general. I think Iceheart's right. 00:40, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps this shouldn't be a requirement. If the deputy/leader steps down/becomes inactive, and the new/current leader knows who they want to make deputy, if they don't they could think about how good they are at explaining things, but is doesn't have to be a requirement. 05:26, Mon, Nov, 28, 2011

Should we have a vote? And Cloudy, how come you agree with Iceheart if all she said was cancelled out by the fact that she was talking about SWs? :3 03:40 Wed Nov 30

Darkstripe Alt.
Darkstripe has been described as a dark tabby multiple times, so would he get an alt. for that, or is it too close to his description? Just curious. Bluestar11796 19:23, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Its too close. 00:06, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

Official Site Alts.
On the official site, some cats, most notably Bluestar, are different from the actual description. Example: Bluestar is a blue-gray she-cat, but on the site, she looks more pale silvery-gray. Would she get an alt. for that?Bluestar11796 19:37, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

The official site isn't really a reliable source of information, and I hold no confidence to it. Have you seen the family trees on there? I think Harpercollins (who runs and makes the site) just put up a random section of a cover that looked slightly like Bluestar for her image. I don't think she'd get an alt for that. 19:40, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

I've also heard a lot of people on here say the official site is fan-edited as well. So, it's not really reliable. 19:43, November 28, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Not the main pages, only the forums. And this site is fan edited... Our info is pretty reliable. 19:48, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, that makes sense. But the difference between this site and that one is that we have sources to back up all the information that goes on here, and we don't just post assumptions or anything on the pages. 19:50, November 28, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Yeah, if the cover arts and comic are any indication, HC gives no care to facts from the series. 19:53, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Bumblestripe
'Aight, in TFW it notes that Bumblestripe had a pelt like his father's (Graystripe). My kindle does not have page numbers, but I'll find the chapter later. Does that mean he's longhaired, or just thick fur? I know thick fur doesn't call for a long haired image, so then it'll be fine. I was just wondering :P 20:49, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but does Bumblestripe already have a thick pelt? 05:05, Tue, Nov, 29, 2011

His description says he's thick furred, but he's got a short haired charart. But, not all cats who have thick fur are longhaired, ie; Firestar. 15:03, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, but I suppose if he's been mentioned with a pelt like his father's, it'd be a really simple tweak to make him long haired. 00:25, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Join?
Hia! My name is Cinderstorm, and I was wondering if I could join PCA. I'm not amazingly amazing at chararts, but I'm pretty good. So hopefully I can join.

Thanks,

21:35, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

Help
How do you put your name on the current projects table? I would like to know because my name is not on there. Purplemoon  Christmas time!  23:53, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

You can edit the PCA page, select source mode, and using the coding you could make a spot for your name. I could do it for you, if you want me to. 00:41, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Yes please, Ivyheart. I have no clue how to do it. Purplemoon  Christmas time!  00:51, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Redoing Apprentices
Just a thought for when the blanks are finished and we start redoing the apprentice images... What does everybody think about having dibs on redoing your own previously approved images? Obviously if you didn't want to do them, you could say so, and somebody else would redo them, but if the user who worked on the previously approved image is still active and a part of PCA, they would get dibs on it. Does that make any sense? 03:35 Wed Nov 30

Sounds good, uhm, don't we kind of have a rule about this with redoing images (if you're the OA you have higher priority to redo it?) and this would kind of build on that? 03:46, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Erm... I dunno. I don't think it's set in stone or anything. It's common courtesy, yes, but I don't think it's a rule. I just wanted to ask in terms of getting it acknowledged by everybody, not by making it into a rule, though :c) 03:54 Wed Nov 30

Makes sense, since you'd have all the old files, colors, patterns, etc. Also, maybe for cats who have more than one apprentice charart (alts. MCA's, etc.), maybe they should resolve to do them all, since at most it would only be three. Thoughts? - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 03:59, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good. That'd still leave plenty for everyone else, as many of the people that made the original apprentice chararts are no longer in the project. 04:06, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

How do we know who the OA is? Do we have to go through all the archives? ~Breezewhisker~ 04:11, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Images show the history of who uploaded under the same name  04:12, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

So you have to try and upload an image before it'll show it? ~Breezewhisker~ 04:16, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

No, click on the image to make it bigger, then it'll bring you to the file page and it'll show the past versions and who did that. Hope that makes sense  04:22, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

It does, for the images that are already on a page. How do you find the old apprentice chararts? /making sure this is totally clear before I break something later/ ~Breezewhisker~  04:25, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

They're listed on the tweak page at the bottom C:  04:26, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, thank you. :) ~Breezewhisker~  04:28, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Oooh I like this. I was hoping to have dibs on Mallownose's image. :) ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  04:53, November 30, 2011 (UTC)