Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

=Discussion=

Brokenstar being blind?
Shouldn't his description of being blind be removed as he has had his blindness restored in the Dark Forest?

 Starry  Hawk Meow... 03:27, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

No. He died blind ouo 09:30, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

So? Not like death means anything anymore. 01:33, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Good point^^. If his sight's been restored, I don't think it's considered part of the description anymore...

But isn't that his afterlife? Shouldn't his description include his description /at death/? Not after, not way before. 21:55, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Longtail's sight was restored after he died; wasn't it? Shouldn't it be the same for Brokenstar? -- Starry  Hawk Meow... 03:36, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Did we remove blindness from Longtail's description? I see no reason to do so with Brokenstar. 23:56, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

Longtail's blindness was removed, it looks like. Should we remove it from Brokenstar, too? Jun 27, 2012; 16:04pm

I personally think we should add the blindness part back into Longtail's article, and keep it in Brokenstar's article. -- 17:54, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Oh wait, I thought Longtail's was removed for lack of spoilers.... but in that case, I don't know why Brokenstar's is there..... *shrugs* No clue. 23:27, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

But Brokenstar's case of being blind would also cause spoilers. 23:42, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

We got rid of it for Longtail so we should get rid of it for Brokenstar. Sincerely: ChanCharm (Talk) 07:55, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Longtail's failing sight was removed because of spoilers, because it happened after the original series, in FQ, but Brokenstar's blindness was inflicted in Fire and Ice, so it doesn't really count as a spoiler. It's cited and non-spoiler, so I think it should stay. 08:00, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe we should include "formerly blind" in their Brokenstar's (and if you want to agree with me since these pages have spoiler tags, Longtail's) description? 00:10, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

I doubt it...It's still in the afterlife. 18:11, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

If they're not blind anymore, then that's that. Like Shelly said, death doesn't really mean anything anymore and we see them in the afterlife, sight restored. I think it should obviously be mentioned in its respected section but when they're seen dead, state that their sight was restored. 18:22, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Should we add to the Trivia that his sight was restored? 20:08, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

ABout the whole spoiler thing, there are spoiler tags for a reason, if users don't even bother reading the spoiler tags, that's not our fault. But his description is to be kept up-to-date, right? If it is it should be added to his description than. (IMO) 19:45, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

Well the problem is that the spoiler tag is below the description, and the description is meant to be spoiler free. Personally, I think we should just move a spoiler tag, it'd make things like this much easier... 05:59, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Moving the spoiler tag wouldn't be that bad of an idea. Pretty much, the entire article is one giant spoiler, so shouldn't the warnings reflect that?

Moving the spoiler tag would work. When I first joined this wiki I always wondered why the spoiler tag was put below the description, as I saw no point in putting it below. Descriptions are never going to be exactly spoiler free so why not move the spoiler tag? o.o 06:38, 01, 09, 2012

I agree with moving the spoiler tag. 17:15, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of moving the spoiler tag. 01:47, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. For one, consistency sake's as it would look odd to have one article with a spoiler at the top, and two, it's not like the spoiler tag is hidden. I mean, it's at the relative top of the page and somewhat sticks out as it's a different color and all. Also, if the reader wants to know more, they can alway look in the history. I think Brokenstar's article is fine as it is. It's portraying the current description we have. 03:34, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

I was talking about moving the spoiler tags in general.... like on all the character pages.... it's kind of a pain to have to keep the description spoiler free simply because the spoiler tag is placed a tad too low. That also means we don't have to place to list cites for things like being blind, or Brightheart's scars or things like that, which means we're also not listing all the information we can. I personally think it'd be better to just move the spoiler tags and never have to worry about things having to be spoiler free on there again. 21:15, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Have we come to a conclusion on this?

Bluestar's Death
Recently, the cause of death on Bluestar's article has been thrown into question.

I'm not here to fight or argue. I'm here to get opinions.

I'm of the opinion that she drowned and that that's the information we should display on her page. She went under and stayed there too long, took water into her lungs that deprived her brain and blood of oxygen, and she died because of it. Put simply, though she died on dry land, she drowned, even if it was dogs that dragged her down and shock may have been part of what killed her. But going on that logic, we could throw into question every cause of death. We could put in that Halftail was killed by Fireheart instead of smoke inhalation.

So, opinions? What information on her death should we display on her page? Killed by water or drowned? 02:15, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

This is on her talk page as well, Shelly. So, I'll place what I put there here as well.
 * Why do people keep saying she drowned? She didn't. If you guys re-read what happened, it wasn't just the water that killed her. To say she drowned is an assumption, because there were also multiple other factors that played a major part in her death, including old age, the dogs, and the pressure of the water itself. She fell off a cliff, for StarClan's sake. I don't think her death should say "drowned", because that's clearly not what happened. Read the prologue of Bluestar's Prophecy again. If she drowned, would she have been able to speak or anything because of the water in her lungs? I don't think so. If her mind had been deprived of blood for too long and she died because of that, she wouldn't have been able to speak, let alone apologize to her kits. 

I am under the assumption that she died of complications, not only from the water, but from her fall and old age. I'm not sure how you would word that exactly, but drowning comes from not being able to breathe, and she was able to breathe in a few gasps, and like Cloudy said, speak a few words. I mean, if she was a younger cat, she may very well have not died from that ordeal. So let's compromise and find a way to word it as complications from these multiple factors, if that's what we come to an agreement on ^^ 03:38, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Also I'd like to point out that drowning happens while you're in the water and unable to breathe, not on land after it's been established you can talk and your lungs are clear kthxbye.

We don't know her exact cause of death, and there was something I believe Shelly said we would never do when I suggested cause of death: Assume. "Killed by water" is actually really dumb if you think about it. Did the water grow claws and cut her throat open? She did not drown, so therefore she was not killed by water. I say we remove it altogether. 03:42, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

She didn't drown, and the water most definately didn't suddenly grow teeth and bite her throat. What could have happened was a simple case of heart failure from being under the pressure of water too long. Contributing fators would've been old age, deppression, anxiety, etc. but in the end, her heart might not have been able to survive the pressure of the water. Sure, she managed to get out and speak for a bit, but remember, she was very weak and if memory serves, she was panting and gasping, a sign of a heart attack or heart failure. Her heart couldn't withstand the water pressure, and so, imho, that's why she died. 09:49 Tue Aug 28

As Berry said, there could have been heart complications involved with her death. She maybe also could've been very stressed out. So, basically, I'm with Berry here.

I'm inclined to believe that while she showed symptoms of a heart attack, she could have also had a panic attack too. She was under a lot of stress at the end of her life and suddenly, there she was, in the water which she had been told would destroy her. She also had enough energy to try to swim again. So most of the most fatal factors that played a part in her death (e.g panic attacks, shutting down of body systems) were related to water. Of course, other factors contributed, but you could just refer to them as "other factors" as there are too many to list.  Millie  Purple   is   Perfection  10:24, August 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Let's try and not complicate her death. Sure other factors played in, but we can scrutinize every other death and put a capacious list of factors that went played in their death when a simple answer would suffice. In fact, you can claim that being born played into someone's death and why not list every scratch they had in their life since somehow, I'm sure someone can find a way how it relates to their death. Now, yes, I'm being hyperbolic, but honestly heart complications, old age, water pressure, and the likes? Unless everyone actually wants to throw every single death into question and dissect it like a fetal pig, I highly recommend narrowing it down to one reason.


 * I also would like to kill the assumption that it was heart failure or a heart attack. Words and phrases like "might", "to believe", "in my honest opinion" or the likes show that it's completely and utterly questionable and unless we get an author's confirmation, I completely disagree to adding it in. Plus, "panting and gasping" could just mean she was out of breath when she ran head on into the dogs or couldn't breath underwater.


 * While drowning may or may not be the reason we chose, it does seem like the lack of oxygen killed her whereas it could be disproved by the fact that she talked. I'm much more inclined to list something like "over fatigue". 22:53, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Well honestly, I'm not sure we should really put anything there. IT was a bunch of factors combined that killed her, and there's no specification whatsoever that says what eventually was the real cause of death. Unless it's said somewhere how she died, then I don't think we should actually list any information. Maybe at most something like "Multiple complications" or something, but to single anything out would be assuming, just as we are for drowning. 05:50, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should put "Multiple factors", or something like what Paleh suggested. Or, perhaps we could just leave it blank and add somewhere, like in the Trivia perhaps, that there are too many factors that contributed to her death in order to make a proper decision as to what the /actual/ cause of death is.

Actually, yes, having "Multiple Factors" is quite a good idea, since we don't know what actually killed her. So, yeah, I'm for Paleh's idea. 06:48 Sat Sep 22

Have we come to a conclusion on this?

Willowshine
Alright, in Mistystar's Omen, Mistystar temporarily dismisses Mothwing as medicine cat when she discovers that Mothwing doesn't believe in StarClan. Since we're going with Marshscar having been leader if only for a few pages, could the same be said of Willowshine? She was, if only for a bit, the sole medicine cat in RiverClan. And Mothwing was in rank-limbo at the time, too, but there's no need to do anything about that. 21:41, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

I guess that she would, with her being the only medicine cat at the time. I literally just finished reading the section where this happens. 21:43, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. If Mistystar actually dismisses Mothwing, Willowshine is automatically head medicine cat.

Yup. However I have something to bring up about MCA's in general.... hold on. *goes to start separate discussion* 04:08, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

True, she was the sole medicine cat at the time. 06:50, 16, 09, 2012

Agreed. 22:29, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Are we all in agreement?

Medicine Cat Apprentices
Alright so this is another thing I've been meaning to bring up for a while. Medicine Cat Apprentices who earn their full name, but their mentor's still alive, should really be listed as full Medicine Cats in their charcat and also get full MC images. It's been stated multiple times in the book that despite having a mentor till their mentor dies, they are full medicine cats. That's why they have a ceremony at all. Now, I know names can't really b e used to judge this, since warriors have become MCAs with full warrior names many times, however with all the MCAs we currently have that had their ceremony, but their mentor's still alive, should get their MC name listed in their charcat and get images (Willowshine, Frecklewish, and Flametail as far as I can find).

So thoughts? Comments? 04:13, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, because they are listed in the allegiances as apprentices, even though they already have their full name. =3 12:32, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

That's because they do still have a mentor though. However they've completed their training and were given their full name to prove it. That ceremony's not there for nothing, and they are full medicine cats after the ceremony. They don't stay apprentices till their mentor dies, they're just listed as such since they do have a mentor. 14:04, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

But if they have a mentor, then they're still apprentices.(imho) 20:32, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

they're apprentices to their mentors, yes. But they are full medicine cats, and I think they should be treated as such. 21:36, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

I, personally, think that we need a cite saying that medicine cat apprentices become full medicine cats, when they get their full name, even without their mentor dying. 21:44, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Ok I'm not gonna copy and paste it all, so just look here. Quite a few instances with different cites where it mentions apprentices receiving full responsibility after the ceremony and getting their full name. 23:04, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

OK, I just read one, and now I agree, in the example that I just read Leafpool clearly states that, an apprentice can take on full responsibilities even when their mentor is still alive, so now I agree with Paleh, I think they should be classified as full medicine cats. =3 23:18, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

They are given the ceremony so that they can be given a name while the mentor is still alive. I can't remember an exact example, but wasn't there a time where Brightheart took on the responsibilities of medicine cat until one of them came back? Should she be classified as a medicine cat too? And I think I read in Bluestar's Prophecy that there can only be one medicine cat at a time, making the cat their apprentice even though they have been given a name. Think of it, if an apprentice didn't already have their name and as soon as the medicine cat died, they'd have to be pulled back from StarClan to give them a name, or even if another cat had to do that, they'd be pretty preoccupied with their new arrival. Makes sense for them to give them a name while they're alive. Also, that example that what if a Clan's sole medicine cat dies and StarClan would have to train the cat, that cat is still an apprentice even if they're the only cat with training. Idk if that made any sense, but that's what I feel. 22:23, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Brightheart didn't receive medicine cat training, nor got a ceremony. The apprentices did. That's why we're even talking about it.

And look at the cites on the page. It says that they have full responsibility/are full medicine cats. They don't have to wait till their mentor dies. And even if what you're saying about why they're doing it is true, you need proof. I for one have never heard that mentioned anywhere in the book. They don't say "We're giving you your name now so StarClan doesn't have to deal with it when I die" or anything of the sort, they say "We're giving you your name because you've completed your training and are now a full medicine cat". What you're saying contradicts all the proof on why they have the ceremonies and all that stuff. I'm sorry but I don't agree at all. 22:45, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I can't words things right >.< I'll try proving my point by finding a cite. However, we haven't come to a conclusion on this discussion so people shouldn't be reserving their MC images. (only three people have given their input, including me) 16:48, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

As was pointed out to me after I started this discussion, they have actually been listed and cited as full medicine cats for a long time before I started this discussion. I didn't realize that however. This should technically have been brought to PCA since the names were already listed on the page, however I didn't realize that at the time. But since clearly not everyone's in agreement, we can't close the discussion yet. However I see no problem with reserving the images. they have the cite on the page, and we have cites in the book saying that they are full medicine cats after the ceremony. Since it's been on the page that long and we have proof of both things, I see no reason why we shouldn't be allowed to reserve the images. 20:09, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

Ordering of History on Character Pages
Hey all. I was just editing Longtail's page, moving the super edition arc to sit above the Original Series arc since that's how we do things, but then I wondered...

Why can't we just keep the character pages in chronological order so they make more sense? And that way users scrolling down the pages won't get spoiled about Firestar's Quest when they're just looking up something from Fire and Ice.

And if a character, for instance, appears in both Bluestar's Prophecy and Firestar's Quest, then I suppose we could have two separate sections for super editions. Wouldn't be so difficult in my opinion.

Anyway, just a thought. Take it or leave it. 03:35, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

I've always wondered why we didn't do it that way. I never thought to bring it up because I thought I'd get shot down, but nice to know I'm not alone. When I first started reading Warriors, with the SE's at the top, I got spoiled with a lot of info even though I tried just scrolling past it. I agree that it should go chronilogically instead. 04:42, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should have the main series first, /then/ have the super editions, graphic novels, ect. I'm not entirely sure we can do it chronologically, because we don't have an official timesetting for some of them, like SkyClan's Destiny, and the Ravenpaw and SkyClan graphic novels. So, unless you want to have assumptions as to where they go, I think just moving the entire section down to below the main arc. Personally, I think it should go


 * Main Arcs -> Super Editions -> Novellas (since they are still stories) -> Short Stories/Plays -> Field Guides -> Graphic Novels

Or, at least something like that. Don't shoot me, but I don't think separating the Super Editions and things like that would be a good idea. They should all be within the same grouping...because we don't actually know the ordering for some of them. Like, take for example SkyClan's Destiny. We know it come after Firestar's Quest and before Midnight. But, does it come before or after Ravenpaw's Path? Added to the SkyClan and the Stranger novels...where do /they/ fit into the timeline? There's an whole tangent I could go off on about the ordering of the books, but, I stand by keeping the sections together.

I think that the pages are fine as they are, the way that they're orginized now is easier for newer users, to understand where everything goes. If we had super editions scattered around the history, and a new user wanted to add one, for instance Yellowfang's Secret when it comes out, they'll be lost as to where to put it. Though, I wouldn't be opposed to doing what Cloudy suggested. 11:42, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

Now that I think about it, it makes sense as to the confusion on where some of the special books would go, chronologically. However, I do think the main 4 story arcs should go first, as that is probably what readers will be reading first (plus they are the most affordable. I think the price tag on mangas is rediculous). You've changed my mind Cloudy. 15:13, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, I find it fine. There's a spoiler tag and users should read at their own risk. It was decided in 2010 to have this set order and I see no valid reason why we should change it. 22:29, September 28, 2012 (UTC) I wouldn't mind going by cloudys order of events. As pointed out above the main arcs are the major arcs and the ones users are most likely to read first. So I'm with Cloudy's suggestion. 109.68.196.193 20:10, October 1, 2012 (UTC) (DJ)

Hmmm.... ya know, Teldy's right, the order was agreed on, and the spoiler tag's there way above the history. If they don't want something spoiled, they shouldn't be reading the history. The order seems fine as is I think. 01:36, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

Half Moon name
the first in a series of discussions till my to-do list is empty Alrighty, so I'm running on very little sleep and am kind brain-dead right now, so I'll just skip to the point. I think we should change Half Moon's page name, and possible her name in the charcat. She was called Stoneteller once. And we have no proof that she took that on as a name rather than just a rank, like leader/healer. She has since been mentioned consistently as Half Moon, not Stoneteller, including all through TLH. Jayfeather even still calls her that. It's very possible that the tradition of taking that as their name may not have started yet, as she was the first Stoneteller after all. So with that all in mind, I propose that we change the page name back to Half Moon, and possibly removing Stoneteller as a name from her charcat completely unless further proof can be found that she did take it on as a name. Even if proof of that is found, it's still clear that Half Moon is her current name, and the page name should be changed regardless. Thoughts? 08:19, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you Paleh. Since she was apparently "the first Stoneteller", the tradition probably didn't actually start til after her. After all, the founding Clan leaders apprently never took on the "-star" suffix, and Half Moon was only called "Stoneteller" once, anyways. o3o  08:26 Wed Sep 26

Someone told me the reason her name is how it is was because even Jayfeather called her Stoneteller. But, that was only one time. We have proof after the events of Sign of the Moon that contradict that statement. She's been called Half Moon by //every// other cat who has been in contact with her; even after she died, and a new cat succeeded her as leader/healer/Stoneteller/ect. If she's still called Half Moon /after/ her death, it's pretty clear to me that her name was never Stoneteller. I agree with moving the page back to 'Half Moon'. We're pretty much assuming she took the name, when it's pretty obvious she didn't.

I never thought about that, but you're completely right. I'm not 100% on removing it from her page altogether just yet, but undoubtedly, her name did not change. Like the first leaders, they were called Thunderstar, Windstar, ect once and they are not listed as such. 15:38, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. She was called Half Moon after her death, so that most likely means her name didn't change. 16:56, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you all. Obviously the Ancients/Tribe had no intention of calling her that, it would just seem like a title at the time. No one calls Firestar "leader" when talking to him.-- 21:06, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree, what more can I say, what ith everything that's already been said? 21:41, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree that her name is Half Moon, but I feel I should point out this. It's linked in the trivia on Rock's page. Vicky states that though Rock was the first Healer, it was Half Moon that held the title and name of Stoneteller to begin with. So the author statement should be taken into account. Maybe Stonetellers take on their old name when they die to avoid confusion in the Tribe of Endless Hunting or something. 21:54, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

It never says anything about her taking the name, just the title. Unless I'm looking at the wrong part of the page of course (which I very well might be... derp). But that's even more reason for me to think that she never took on the name, just the title, as Vicky doesn't mention it. 23:29, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

I'm of the opinion that she shoudl be called Half Moon. In SoTM, Jayfeather calls her Stoneteller once. The book still refers to her as Half Moon. Doesn't mean she didn't take on the title though. But idk, that's just me. 01:40, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, I've added trivia to her page about this confusion, but if we do change the page name back to Half Moon, what would we add to her charchart next to her Healer rank? "Unknown, possibly Stoneteller or Half Moon"? Seems a bit lacking, I'm sure someone else can come up with a better way to handle it. 16:14, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm with changing her name to Half Moon. She never was actually named as Teller of the Pointed Stones so therefore we are assuming she received her name. As for the name on the charcat, I say unknown would do, as we aren't really sure if her name was half moon or stone teller. 109.68.196.193 20:10, October 1, 2012 (UTC) (DJ)

I'm pretty sure we'd add Unknown into the charcat because that's what we've done on mose other pages.(here, here, and here) =3 20:23, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Content Drive
The content drive has been Onestar for over a year and two months now, and I think it's safe to say that he's article needs not be the content drive. So with that, who do you guys think needs to be the content drive? Or, do we even need a content drive currently? 22:23, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know if we really need one, I quickly browsed through a few articles, and maybe Squirrelflight(quite a bit of her history could use expansion) or Sharpclaw (SC) (All of his history needs to be expanded, especially SkyClan's Destiny). I dunno, just a few ideas. =3 22:59, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Sharpclaw is an idea, and while we may have to nominate already "silver" (or maybe even gold) characters, I'd like to hold off on that until we have all possible bronze, started, or planned characters out of the way. =) 22:29, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

OK, so I decided to go through the started, and bronze categories, and I have two more suggestions, Bird That Rides the Wind (needs expansion to history and more quotes), and Smallear(All of his history needs expansion, especially BP, also the quotes could be gone through). So, yeah, just throwing ideas out there. owo 20:32, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Allegiance Only Category
~On the second day of discussions Atelda gave to me; a cool wiki clock and brand new family trees~

So I was thinking, since we have Main, major, supporting, and minor categories for characters, why don't we have an Allegiance Only characters category? Always thought it might be a useful thing to have, and it can never hurt to have more categories to keep things more organized. What do you guys think? 22:14, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

I love this idea, like you said, it would keep everything organized. =D 02:09, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Paleh, I agree. Having an allegiance only characters category would make it easier to organize the character pages, since they don't really fit in with minor character, because they're less than minor o3o 02:17 Fri Sep 28

ihu I agree. 22:29, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Agreeing 100%. 109.68.196.193 20:10, October 1, 2012 (UTC)(DJ)

This would be used for characters like Leaftail, correct? Personally, I think it's a good idea..

I don't know if it would be for Leaftail, as he was mentioned outside of the allegiances. =3 20:18, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Well, true. But, he was mentioned, and not actually shown. His name was seriously said /one time/. And even then, it was in passing. To me, that still counts as an allegiance only, since he didn't actually physically appear.

Thistleclaw
On page 159 of The Last Hope, Thistleclaw is called a dark tabby. That's it. No mention whatsoever of brown. Would he now be considered a dark grey mottled tabby? 02:41, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

I love how you don't mention that Vicky originally saw him as a dark brown tabby. Since we have an author who originally saw him as part of that description mentioned in The Last Hope, it could have been a mistake. We don't know, and have no information to support /or/ contradict it. God, we're getting out of hand with this stuff...e.e

Official art contradiction to new descriptions?
Oh whee another discussion. Teldy must love me~

so I've been talking to a few people about this over a period of time, and I figured I'd bring it up. I think we should use the official art (CotC, manga, book covers, etc.) as proof against descriptions that seem like obvious mistakes. Like, say Cinderpelt was described as a tabby (she was described as a pale gray one, but that's a totally different story...), we all know she's not one, but she's never been called solid to contradict that. However we have official art for her that shows her as solid. I think we should use it in those cases. Now I know a lot of you are probably gonna argue that the official art has too many mistakes and that we can't use it, but really, the books have more mistakes. That doesn't mean we shouldn't trust them and be able to cite them. We'd just have to trust them unless we have proof against it, just like any book description.

What do you guys think? 03:08, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

ihu They are official since they're published in the books, but I don't think the artists are aware of the descriptions in the book, or if they are, it's probably a vague idea though I'm assuming. But I do agree that we should have pictures representing the official art since even the books have description mistakes, of course, unless it's contradicted. 22:29, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

They're published by HC, and released by them. Therefore, the designs shown in them are canon, regardless of whether we like it or not. We used the manga for descriptions before, so what makes this any different? We'd just be using them to contradict descriptions, and I think the artist that draw them /are/ aware of the descriptions. Perhaps they're given a copy of the characters present on the books, and the storyline, or something like that. I'm not sure how that goes, but since they /are/ official, they should be put to good use.

I agree with everyone above me, these are official art pieces, and therefore should be considered a valid cite for descriptions. 01:23, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

Lichen - Lichenfur, assumption?
I've been thinking about this for a while, and thought I might brign up the question here to see what you guys think. Is saying Lichen is Lichenfur an assumption? Their descriptions weren't exactly the same, there was no mention of Lichen getting a name change, and as far as I know, there's no proof that they're actually the same cat. I mean, yes, it seems obvious and would make sense, but it seems like an assumption to me. I s'pose we could try and ask Vicky, but right now from current book proof, I don't think we have any confirmation it's her. It could be argued that since it did say Lichen joined SkyClan, and there was no other cats names Lichen that we can safely assume it's her, and that her fur could have faded to gray, but it still seems kind of far fetched to take that as proof in my opinion. Thoughts? 22:06, September 30, 2012 (UTC)

I think that it's an assumption, though I'm pretty sure we have some solid ground to stand on. 19:15, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Adderfang, Spottedleaf's father?
I'm very unsure about this, so hopefully you guys can help come to a decision. Here a fan asks which of Spottedleaf's parents was a SkyClan descendant, Adderfang or Swiftbreeze, Vicky states that she thinks it's Adderfang. Now we have no cite for Adderfang being Spottedleaf's father, however in here, Vicky shows no doubt in Adderfang being Spottedleaf's father, just in him being a SkyClan descendant. However since she did include the word think in there, I'm unsure whether to add it. What do you guys think, should we add it as a cite for him being her father, or no? 22:06, September 30, 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that that's what we should do, and add the bit to the trivia about him possibly being a SkyClan descendent into his trivia. But then it would raise the question of which one of his parents were the SkyClan descendent if he were proven to. I hope I make sense. 19:18, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I think that's enough to cite him as their father. 20:25, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

I believe that's enough proof...since Vicky didn't say she /thinks/ Adderfang was the father, but instead said that she thinks he's the SkyClan descendant. Because if Adderfang wasn't the father, I think she would have said so.

I don't know because Adderfang couldn't be the only cat in ThunderClan to have had a SkyClan ancestor. Spottedleaf could've gotten her SkyClan blood from somewhere else. If we have no proof that he is the father, we can't add it. Although she never really did say that he wasn't... This is a dilemma. It could really go either way, I guess. 02:40, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

Vicky says she thinks. If we use this to cite Addefang as Spottedleaf and sibling's father, we may as well change Gorseclaw (WC)'s description to what Kate thought it was. These are the author's thoughts and opinions on the matter. The key word in that comment is think, Vicky says "I think it's Adderfang" not "It's Adderfang". So no, I don't think we should use this to cite Adderfang as the father of Spottedleaf. 07:08 Wed Oct 3

Yes, but Vicky is talking about thinking that Adderfang has SkyClan blood. She shows no appearent hesitation to him as their father. 12:19, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

Exactly, if she was unsure of him being her father, don't you think she would have said something? She only said she thinks her was a SkyClan descendant. 16:08, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

=Nominations=

Stonetooth ~ Silver Nomination
His article looks fine to me. There aren't any more quotes. Comments? 22:47, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

If possible, please remove the direct quote, and expand Night Whispers. 23:22, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

M'kay. 15:25, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Has Night Whispers been expanded? 20:20, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Still working on this, Sweet?

If no one's working on this, I could take over. :3 08:30 Wed Oct 3

Let's give Sweet two more days, Berry, as stated in the guidelines, she gets three weeks. =3 20:17, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Brick ~ Silver Nomination
Expanded her history and no quotes other than the main quote since most of the book, she was just appearing, so le comments? 17:27, September 30, 2012 (UTC)

Can you cite him being in BloodClan, other that that, I see nothing wrong. Good job! =D 19:26, September 30, 2012 (UTC)

Done! 03:46, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Shadepelt - Silver Nomination
Woot RiverClan! I expanded the history and cited her being a loner, but there's not anymore quotes that describe her personality, so comments? 8D 13:29, October 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * I see nothing wrong. 18:10, October 7, 2012 (UTC)

Emberfoot - Silver Nomination
The history is good, and there's no personality quotes that I can see. Comments? =) 14:08, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

The Eclipse section is compiled of simple sentences. Perhaps make that section's style more dynamic. Otherwise, it looks good. 18:10, October 7, 2012 (UTC)

Gorseclaw (WC) ~ Silver Nomination
Comments?

Vinestar ~ Silver Nomination
Comments? (No, I'm not adding trivia about him possibly being Vinetail. There's /no/ proof at all for it.)

Crowfrost ~ Silver Nomination
No personality quotes other than insults on other Clans which most every cat does and expanded, so comments? 20:09, October 7, 2012 (UTC)