Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Apprentice Tutorials
Umm so I was gonna help out this user (not pointing out names) and I wanted to check out the apprentice tutorials again so I can explain things better when I noticed a lot of the tutorials are quite out of date.. Don't you think we should look through and recheck and make sure the tutorials aren't misleading/outdated? 03:52 Tue Sep 3

I think we should. Hopefully, we'll have newly approved queen line art soon, and the tutorials would be great to show the shading placement/eye coloring for it. There's even an tutorial video using the old rogue line art - I wouldn't find that very useful as a noob :3  .:* ❧Silver❧ *:.   Leaf-Fall is here~

True, and maybe we could add more tutorials in there too, like smudging/blurring techniques and/or texture (which most new users would like to learn) even if it's not necessary. But as mentioned in previous discussion, PCA wants the chararts to look good, no? 22:25, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

I actually think we were in the process of trying to redo some of them... not entirely sure what happened to that discussion, though. Some of the tutorials are outdated, yes, and also only have some of the information. I'd be up for a revamp.

I would like to ask the project if I could make a patched cat tutorial? Some cats have patches and there is none, so we could definitely use one. 23:22, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Imma take the texture tutorial and mayybeee the smoke, if this is considered smoke. This took up sooo much of my time>:( 17:20 Sat Sep 14

I don't think we should be "taking" anything, especially if we don't know if we're going to redo the tutorials or not. I also think only warriors and above should be allowed to work on the tutorials, as they are teaching other members, and that's a warrior and up duty.

Oh :( Once I become a warrior will it all be okay for me to do a tutorial? 17:47 Sat Sep 14

If I remember correctly, normally SMs had full permission to do tutorials, and warriors and below were required to ask, but I'm pretty sure warriors can do that anyways... Kelpsey, your smoke is really good, probably way better than I can do, and honestly, I think you could post a tutorial (is would have to be agreed upon, however).

On the subject of revamping the tutorials, I'm pretty sure we were planning this quite a long time ago, but it never came into effect. I think we should keep the current tutorials, however. And new ones could be added under the name of the user who made them. ouo

I agree. The smoke tutorial by Kelps looks very promising. And Stoney your chararts are beautiful, especially the dappled tabby tutorial I think the flecked and mottled ones are out of date, but that's just my opinion. 22:07, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

I would love to see the tutorials revamped, especially to see how the standards of PCA have risen. To show no disrespect to the artists who made the tutorials or make the tutorial page super long (tl;dr - yeah let's avoid that) perhaps we can put the current tutorial on a larger version of the tabber coding preserving all the current tutorials but allowing users to post or revamp tutorials as well as include the new designs that have been showing up.

I would say that the senior members have decision over tutorials, but I emphasize the point of honesty and thinking about the reference part over the friendship. 23:24, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

We could also use the "tabber" coding to separate the apprentice tutorials into sections, so the page won't be that long, per say the first tabber would be known as "Basics" (fur, ear and eye colors, basic shading styles, plain cats, etc.), the second known as "Markings" (torties, tabby styles, etc.) and so on. Therefore, we can add more tutorials without having to extend the page a lot. 00:13, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Using the tabbers would be cool with me. Nice idea~

Thank you. ^^ 15:29, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

I agree that we should revamp the tutorials. We also need a guide to paint.net's tools, and photoshop's.  I don't use either, but for other users...   Using the tabbers is a neat idea! Also, if you have one image approved, shouldn't you be able to do a tutorial based around that (say you did a black cat, you would be able to do a tutorial based around that.) Just an idea, though. &#9786;      Ⓐ   Ⓜ  Ⓑ  Ⓔ  Ⓡ    Ⓢ Ⓗ Ⓘ  Ⓝ  Ⓔ    Hope  comes  with  FLYING OREOS 11:16 Sun Oct 13

Also, I think the mottled and flecked need updating. No offense to the artists. 11:20, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

I think the flecked is fine, but it maybe a different style of flecked could be added??? 02:07, October 19, 2013 (UTC)

There's blanks that don't even have shading/eye colors for, and there should be a highlight tutorial too. 16:19 Tue Oct 22

I honestly don't think anything needs removing unless it doesn't follow the guidelines of a charart (personally I like the flecked and mottled ones), but I do think that the tutorials could use updating and perhaps organization and a revamp of the layout? Maybe there could be different tutorials for more than one category to have users choose which way works best for them. If I remember correctly, when this was discussed a while ago, Paleh had a pretty good idea for an apprentice tutorial (if that's okay with you Paleh)

Well, Stoney, I did bring up the idea of the tabbers, which is kind of like what you said of organizing them into sections, no? 00:29, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Long Fur for ThunderClan Cats
I've been meaning to bring this up ever since Tallstar's Revenge came out, but I couldn't remember where I found it. Now that I have a cite, I decided to bring it up finally. On page 126 of Tallstar's Revenge, it reads, "He'd (as in Tallpaw) never seen such huge cats, wide-shouldered and stocky with long fur and sharp claws that glinted at the ends of there toes." Should all ThunderClan cats get long fur unless stated otherwise? We gave all RiverClan cats long fur and all WindClan cats short fur unless stated otherwise, so I don't see why we wouldn't do the same for ThunderClan cats. 16:16, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

Good point, but who was Tallpaw looking at, at that time? It may have been a couple of long-furred TC cats. Bluestar was described with short fur, same with many others of the Clan. Their fur can vary from long to short, since they're a forest Clan. It would make more sense for WC to have a lot of short hairs, due to their moor-running experiences, and RC eats fish, so their fur gets all oily, and they need long fur to protect them from very cold waters[my theory xD there may be other reasons]. I'm a little lazy to go get TR, and look up the page. But I may in a little bit. But someone else can look at their copy. But in my opinion, I think the way TC hairs vary, is fine. Same as how SC's hair types vary. But the main reason why most of them are long-furred, is mainly so they can endure leaf-bare. Maybe they had medium-hair length, so in a short description of TC, the Erin called them long-furred. I bet someone else could explain this way better than me, but this is my total honest opinion on your question. Sorry if I just talked no sense! xD I tend to   20:37, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

However, they may have been the exception, or he may have been describing them with such fur as WindClan cats aren't exactly balls of fluff. 20:43, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

This was at Tallpaw's first gathering, which tells me that they were all long-furred. And Bluestar being describe as short-furred was a mistake, as she was originally described as long-furred. Just pointing that out. 22:03, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

ThunderClan doesn't have a feature that sets them apart from the others. There are several short furred ThunderClan cats, who are Clan born. But I agee with Ravenfrost in this situation. There's really no need to make all ThunderClan cats long furred because a certain patrol was described as long fur. 22:18, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Icy on this. I don't see a need to make them all long-furred, unless a specific character, such as Cloudtail or Graystripe, are described as such. A small group of cats don't represent the entirety of the Clan, imho.

Also, what a WindClan cat might consider long-haired, and what a ThunderClan cat/ect might consider longhaired can vary significantly. If he never saw a longhaired cat and suddenly saw some with, say, medium length fur, it would look long to him. Based on that alone I would say they don't need to be tweaked for that. 01:23, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Agreeing with above. As Windclan cats are almost all shorthaired, they might think Thunderclan cats, who might even be shorthaired, but with slightly longer fur, all are longhaired. Also, this is Tallpaw, and his first Gathering, so he probably thinks all the cats there were longhaired, excluding Windclan, obviously. Basically agreeing with Ivy. &#9786;      Ⓐ   Ⓜ  Ⓑ  Ⓔ  Ⓡ    Ⓢ Ⓗ Ⓘ  Ⓝ  Ⓔ    Hope  comes  with  FLYING OREOS 11:22 Sun Oct 13

Okay, I get that, but he doesn't seem to be comparing their fur length to WindClan cats. He was just saying they had long fur, not that they had the longest fur he had ever seen. 21:25, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

My New Member Rank
Hey, I don't mean to rush..But since the vote for the different path for a kit to become an apprentice-apprentice to warrior thing passed, I have been contantly active on the project. So does that mean I should be ranked up to a warrior now? 23:54, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

You know, I'd been meaning to bring something up, but I'd actually forgotten about it, and was really busy as of late. This is not directed at you, but.... I actually do not feel comfortable with a user who has not gotten an image approved (for whatever reason, especially the one month limit, since the limits for tweaks and redos are even less) being allowed to tweak images. Making charart requests is one thing, but.. I really don't think that someone who's obtained the rank of warrior this way, without having anything approved, should be allowed to edit an image that was not originally theirs, since we don't know the full potential. I have no problems with them becoming warriors, but it's the tweaking aspect of it that does not sit well with me. I do apologize, but I honestly think that if someone doesn't have at least one image approved, they shouldn't be allowed to tweak an image.

Okay, but what if you're in my circumstance where I've finished an image, but not the current given number? And also, no offense Snow (the newest user on the block! lol) but keep in mind we did have a vote on this, and it did pass. I'd say an assessment image for those without a complete image might work- maybe? 06:42 Wed Oct 9

And the very definition of warrior status is built off the concept of tweaks: being able to tweak and vote. So, if warrior status means just a name on a screen and nothing besides, I really don't see the point of the alternate route besides easy-access promotions for new users- which, of course is the opposite of what we're truying to do here. No offense, and no personal attack intentions here, but... yeah. 06:46 Wed Oct 9

Uh, if you're talking about me, I'm the PCA deputy??????? I just got a username change???? I'm not new???? Anyways, I am well aware there was a vote? I said I had been meaning to bring it up, but hadn't gotten around to bringing it up, since I've been /sick/ and busy with work the past couple of weeks... And I'm not sure if an assessment image would work? Would it still be just as strictly critiqued as a "normal" PCA image, or something like that? o.O

Lol, I was joking about having to call you a new nickname!!!!!! ;[ Sorry!!!! Anyways, I meant that (no offense) your say is not community consensus. yeah maybe we could do another vote once we solidify things. And I'm assuming we'd critique it like a normal PCA image, as that's how they would learn what's acceptable. but looking over it again, I don't think that'd work out too well because where'd we put the image? And I /do/ agree that while critiquing others does help you be a better artist, but I know a few artists that (not mentioning names) have stuck around for a while and still have quite a bit to learn... Perhaps including myself X3 hope you feel better snowy 07:17 Wed Oct 9

Uhh, I never said that my say was community consensus? I never even implied that? I don't actually get where you're coming from with that, and if you're accusing me of something, I'd appreciate it if you don't. I know there was a vote, and I voted on it. There was just something else that I'd thought of and completely didn't mention, when I should have earlier, and now that Raven's posted, it jolted my memory into saying something.

Also, everyone has more to learn. No one's perfect here (no matter how good they are at art or anatomy, there's always something more to learn from making images and blanks and such), and that's why we critique images...while someone has the right to reject a critique, saying "it's fine" and that's it, seems to be a little more on the lazy side, and that brings me to another discussion which I'll probably start in the morning.

Anyways, my point is, that I honestly don't think someone who hasn't gotten at least one image approved, regardless of their progress on said images, should be allowed to tweak. As long as they have at least one image approved, as you do, I wouldn't be against letting you tweak an image. I just would rather not someone who hasn't gotten one of their own approved edit an already approved one, since they might not know what they're getting into. Sometimes, people have brought /other/ things to light when tweaking an image, like say, defining the shading more, on something that only needed a grayscale change, or a ripped ear, or ragged fur. Or maybe adding tabby stripes due to someone finding a cite in the process of an image being tweaked. The possibilities are actually quite endless and could happen more frequently than you think.

I understand your point. Would it make you feel better if I promised not to tweak an image until I've had one image approved? Or should I make you an image at my best? Or maybe you could get more people to comment on Blizzardpaw, since I'm so bored and my deadline is coming up. ._. 20:28, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Ask on chat, as you can't force people to comment. You'll probably get a reply faster via chat. 20:30, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

I cannot force people to comment on your image, Raven. And don't harass others on chat to comment. One "can I ask for comments?" is fine, and you've already done that on your image. If you want to make an image, fine, but I'm /not/ promising that it will count, since this isn't even official or anything like that. I also can't decide what should be done in cases where someone hasn't gotten an image approved. It's not up to me, and it was only a suggestion. If someone disagrees with me, they should speak up, and perhaps we can get this discussion off the ground?

Why do you think I am accusing you of something? It was just a reminder that others need to agree first. I'm sorry, I should have been more detailed and elaborated on the fact that I don't think we should cancel unless others agree, but I specifically stated earlier that I had no intention of personally attacking anyone.. So please just quit assuming bad faith.

Anyways, I'm guessing the "promo art" probably wouldn't work out, but I was thinking, maybe kits only should be moved up via 3-week rule, and then after an apprentice is past 3 weeks of apprenticeship without images approved they should have first dibs on an image for say, 24 hours would be "3-week apprenticeship selection"? After the 24-hours expires, all other members would be valid to pick up the image.

However, this would be kind of limiting the project so... What do you guys think? Good or bad? 23:17 Wed Oct 9

I'm not assuming bad faith, so don't accuse me of such ._.;; I said it was a suggestion, and one that I should have brought up earlier, but I was busy and forgot, hence why I'm saying it now. I never once said that was I said was set in stone. Saying that I don't feel comfortable with people tweaking other images when they can't even get their own approved is an opinion I am entitled to, and I'll voice it if I please. I know that others need to agree??? I've been here almost four and half years, and community consensus was one of the very first things I was introduced to on this wiki. And yes, it might limit the project, but having inexperienced users working on images might not be such a good idea if you really think about it...and I'm starting to regret voting yes on that.

Like Cloudy, I agree that there should be no exceptions to the ranking up or anything. And as I have said before, getting an image approved is almost just getting you ready for tweaking - practice, for better words.

Though I do agree with the 24-hour apprentice idea. It would be helpful to the new members of the project, and actually give them a chance to move up in rank and continue on with more duties within the project. 19:47, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

(This may be a bit late; this is referring to Raven's most recent comment) Raven if you're bored about it waiting for comments try study the image yourself for improvement. I did it with Fuzzypelt's appy image several times. See anything to improve; try spy out rogue waste, have a look if the eye depth needs defining, if the shading needs defining or see if a different tint would match it to other images. (Of course tinting depends) Anthing minor could effect the timing it gets CBA'd - approved. 20:36, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Sorrel, I'll do that. And I'm sorry guys, I didn't mean to start an argument if I did.. 15:05, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to comment again soon but I felt like first I need to say something: What about my case? Sorry for sounding selfish or impatient, but I've completed an image. But since I took an absence for like 2 weeks I guess I wouldn't be eligible at the moment but like, in a couple weeks would I be moved up or would I need to snag a few more images? Just wondering for the moment... 22:59 Fri Oct 11

Well, if we'd do what I suggested, then you'd be fine to tweak, and you've already had an image approved. My thing is only against people who've gotten up to the rank of warrior without getting a single image approved, whether it be because there haven't been any, or it got declined or there were other circumstances that prevented an image from being approved. I seriously have no idea what exactly's going on with the whole ranking thing, and what's active to some might not be active to others.

I didn't agree with the three week stuff on that recent vote, and in my opinion, Someone who hasn't had an image approved really shouldn't be eligible to tweak, as it is usually harder. However, I think that an assessment image could be a good idea, as Cloudy mentioned, or simply maybe bump the requirements to at least one image approved?

Agreeing with Stoner. When you're an apprentice, getting three images approved sounds like it will take, well, forever. Especially now, with no images to do, apart from when you find something in Tallstar's Revenge that requires an alt. So yeah. That probably doesn't make sense. &#9786;      Ⓐ   Ⓜ  Ⓑ  Ⓔ  Ⓡ    Ⓢ Ⓗ Ⓘ  Ⓝ  Ⓔ    Hope  comes  with  FLYING OREOS 11:28 Sun Oct 13

Well, I just want to say kits should still be able to promote after 3 weeks because after looking at other people's comments on layers and stuff should give them info on how to make an image.

Anyways, I don't think the assessment image would work out because there wouldn't be any place to put them, and even if we did create a whole seperate page to put them it would create unnecessary uploads. The 24 hour thing would go like, there would be a new subrank between apprentices/warriors like, "assessment stage" or something where after an image is declined/withdrawn only they can pick up images. And then if 24 hours passes and no one picks it up then everyone could pick it up (including the assessment-stagers).

Also, may I pick up an image to tweak from the list? I'm not listed as a warrior yet so I figured I might as well ask, to avoid the trouble of misunderstanding. 02:54 Mon Oct 14

Looking at other images and making them are two completely different things. Just because you can look at one doesn't mean you can make one. x.x Also, I still think that the promotion should be paused until the issue I presented has been solved. Users who are inexperienced in making the art should not be tweaking others.

Anyways, I was thinking up a few ideas:
 * 1) the 24-hour apprentice rule (which has my favor)
 * 2) the assessment image
 * 3) a rule where an apprentice is paired with a mentor and is given a random image off the tweak list to tweak, and would work with them to make it acceptable. They would then proceed to sharihg with the leader and deputy, and if they approve as, say, 90% acceptable then it would count for one. they would have to repeat this process 3 times. it promotes the mentor program, but again it might overload the leader and deputy. Similar to the assessment image, but it includes preparartion for tweaking as well as does not overload the project as a whole, rather focusing on SW-to-apprentice bonding (which i think is really lacking in the project).

Feel free to edit the list. This list is totally not limited to just these ideas. in fact, i encourage it :) -- 02:39 Wed Oct 23

Alright so I don't have time to read through this, but scanning through it seems like nobody's mentioned it so I wanna go ahead an suggest it. Why not simply add a new requirement to tweaking/redoing images? That you have to have at least one image approved to do so. It honestly wouldn't be hard to track, and seems fair enough to the new warriors. I haven't been active enough to keep track, but I believe warriors can vote now, so they will still have new privileges as a warrior, just not tweaking unless they've had an image approved. I honestly think it'd be much much simpler than any of the other options.

Excuse me if I'm misunderstood the problem or anything, or this has been mentioned, like I said, I can't read through this all right now.

Yes, that's a wonderful idea, and I'd be more than willing to go along with that. I just want them to have some experience with their own images before they touch someone else's. Warriors are allowed to vote now, yes, and I'd feel a lot more comfortable with them tweaking images if they've already gotten experience in the project. Making a personal image for someone as opposed to something that is critiqued and approved are two different things. With Paleh's idea, it's quite simple, and makes sure that a warrior has the experience that they should have gotten as a kit or apprentice.

Halloween- Charart competition?
If you look back into the archive a while ago, I wanted to start a Charart competition but it got denied by the project. However, one of you (I think sorrel) suggested we have a competition for Halloween or the winter holidays, and now with Halloween coming up, do you think we could host a competition featuring what you will be (or wish to be, for certain age groups) for Halloween? I'd like to host it, if you all don't mind. 04:21 Mon Oct 14

What, so like witch or wizard cats? I think, joining onto that fact, we can dress the cats up, kinda. Like maybe monsters, or pumpkins (dunno where that came from). I was supporting the comp last time, and will do it again. Either that, or maybe a scene from your favorite spooky movie/book. I think we should do this c: c: c:. <span style="">16:30 Mon Oct 14

Seems like a good idea, as I'm pretty sure we had a competition for Christmas before, so why not Halloween? There should be a different section for apprentice and below, and warriors and up (as it wouldn't be fair for a beginner to be against a more experienced person?)

Brilliant.idea! Sounds like a great theme. I have an idea in mind c: 16:56, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, Stoney, I was going to say, Raelic versus me would not be a fun competition 8D And Amber, yeah like you can get really creative and like maybe either the cat being that thing or lineart can be used to make it look like a costume! Or some other ideas you may have in mind... >;D i'm a cat for halloween, so wish me well XDD <span style="">00:37 Tue Oct 15

Ya, that would be fun!! Oooo, I've got a good idea, :)!! <span style="">00:41 Tue Oct 15

This could be a fun idea, but we also have to remember how much work is needed around here. But I do agree, it would be nice having a small charart event, as not many are up for approval and just doing something fun would be great for the project, in my opinion. c:  04:27, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

I was against the last one, and I'm against this one too. The purpose of this project is to provide art for the wiki, and this promotes unneeded uploads. There are so many other things that can be worked on, like articles for PB, PW, PC, and PR. It's a nice idea, but it only suggests unhealthy uploading and that's something we already have more than enough of.

Under other circumstances I think this would be a good idea but PW, PB, and PC still have pages sitting unfinished that were made months ago and I think that we need to get those at least started before we do anything else. 12:00, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

I've gotta agree with Snow and Duck, there's so much else to be done on the wiki and PCA is already such a huge distraction. We don't need to add to it. <span style="">13:28 Tue Oct 15 2013

It's a nice idea and all, and I'd support it if we hadn't had other work to do. The chapter subpages aren't even finished, the other projects don't even have their articles finished, there's so much that needs to get done. Instead of having users that only devote their time to PCA and then upload unneeded images that honestly could promote rivarly, I think it's better if we focus our time on finishing the most important jobs that need to be done on the wiki. 15:58, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

And the thin is, too, didn't users complain about having their feelings hurt over not doing well in past competitions? I know that it's all in fun and what have you, but when a user doesn't do well, you still can't blame them for being a little dissapointed, and that's not fun either. So on top of the work that's needed to be done, I wanted to ad this as well. 16:40, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

It's a good idea but with so many other things on the wiki needing to be worked on in all the other projects I'm against it right now. There's just so many other pages and things that need to be worked on besides PCA, and the focus really needs to be shifted away from this project some and to the ones dealing with the articles. <span style="">00:39, 10/16/2013


 * Honestly, having other work should not be an excuse to put down a competition. While I'm not supporting it either, the reminder is that this is a wiki; we will always have things needing to be done (now whether they are/will be done is another story). There will always be articles that are more lackluster than others, but the idea is that having other work to be done should not be the single reason to deny a competition. And if everyone wants to continue talking about other projects and how they need to help, why is PCA not actively helping those other projects? I mean no offense to anyone but frankly, more than half of the PCA users currently are absolutely not involved with any other projects or just generally editing outside this project, so it is absolutely bull to characterize the other projects as needing help. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I really don't want to see future comments with excuses as to why they don't participate in other projects or any excuse at all. The blatant fact is that there are users only PCA bound. Don't make excuses. The acknowledgement of the other projects is great, but intentions are the devil's work.


 * As for the actual competition aspect of it, I'm neutral. If users want a competition, so be it; if they don't, that's fine too. However, I ask that there be a strict rule about uploading a second personal picture will result in disqualification, no exceptions. Meaning, if you upload another file to the wiki for this competition, I will delete both of your personal pictures without warning and you will be eliminated from the competition. Other than that, it's fair game to have a competition or to not have a competition. 00:58, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

I personally agree with 'Teldy. A lot of you are talking about getting work done when at the same time a lot of you aren't trying to get work done either. I know I've said this before, but personally I think that a competition would be okay when there's a good reason like Halloween or Christmas. It kind of helps to get into the spirit. c: Also, about what Ivy said, whether I'm not sure what exactly happened, it's also a good point that maybe some users got their feelings hurt (however if there were to be a competition I'd suggest that people should only enter who understand that they might not get what they want in the end). I do realize that there are work in other projects to get done (And I do agree, but there really is no reason to complain about something when the same applies to you.

Yah I've been wanting to say what atelda said above for a while but I didn't want to get my ears cut off ;D the point is, if PCA is a distraction then what's the point of having it open? Honestly, I'm solitarily PCA-bound, as telds mentioned above, and we need to keep the project running. It almost seems like you're advertising the other projects... No offense, but...

Yah we really should have the personal-image thing. And I'm gonna post directions on using archives as photos on the page if its made. <span style="">06:12 Fri Oct 18

We've had (I believe two?) some in the past, so what's the big deal with them now? I think it was a fun way to get away from the seriousness of the project and just have fun with your creativity. Nobody died during the last competitions, so I don't see the harm in holding another one now. <span style="">00:26 Mon Oct 21

So uhh, sorry to be nudgy, but it's really close to halloween. May I set the competition, or is this declined? <span style="">02:55 Wed Oct 23

I feel like it's a bit too close to Halloween to start one now..it's, what, a week or so? Typically there's two rounds, which helps slim down the winner's pool a bit, and those rounds are open for images being added for a week, and the voting process lasts a week. That's about a month. Unless we want to really rush this, I think holding it off for Christmas would be a better idea. (And with the holidays we typically get a few more users active, and I know a lot of us have tests and whatnot since the first quarter of school is coming to a close.) 02:59, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

For the sake of clarity, I'm not saying that PCA is necessarily a distraction nor am I supporting this "need" to keep it running; I also am not against the advertisement of other projects. The point is that if people want to deny a competition, they should do it on the argument base of other reasons and more reasons. 22:06, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Tweak Voting Issues
Hey, I was scrolling through some archives for reference and I saw that, a lot of the times like, 3 people vote nay and 5 people vote yay and it becomes a redo. Or vice Versa. I think we should change it to "it's valid if the difference between nays and yays hits 5".

Also, another issue is multiple-image voting. Sometimes a whole set is nominated, and one image looks really good and the rest require tweaks/redoes, and everyone votes nay because one image looks really good, therefore restricting the improvement of the images. Or sometimes an image looks really good but is tweaked because it is in a set of images needing tweaks where everyone votes yay. Does anyone have suggestions? <span style="">04:43 Mon Oct 14

Also, I was thinking, umm you know how we stopped nominating queens? Ever since, a lot of queens needing tweaks have been turned down because of the new rule. Do you guys think we should begin nominating them but not tweak them so that when the queen blanks are ready we don't have to search for all those images that missed tweaking? <span style="">04:48 Mon Oct 14

All queen images are here. And we're leaving them as-is because redoing them, and redoing them /again/ afterwards would be a waste of time. Also, the voting is five nays or five yays, nothing else. That's what we voted on and unless we vote again, it'll stay as-is.

Oh nono I meant like, we would nominate them but not actually redo them <span style="">05:21 Mon Oct 14

Why would we nominate them if they're all being redoing once the blanks are approved?

Man you gonna stick around till there's a five vote difference on a nomination? What we've got is fine. It hits five, you get to do your thing. If it ain't broke don't fix it. <span style="">5:36 Mon Oct 14 2013

Oh yeah thats right! Haha my bad @snowman <span style="">00:40 Tue Oct 15

Mentor Program
Okay, so I've noticed that the Mentor Program has been running a bit down lately. Many users have been posting requests for mentors, and they mostly go unnoticed. The last one being 'claimed' was about in August, I believe. I know it hasn't been that long, but I would hate to see this program stop or get shut down - it really helped when I was still an apprentice/warrior. (I can thank Oblivion for that ^^)

I think that if we refresh it, that would be the best option. Mentors could apply again, along with apprentices to see who is still active. I know that many people don't have a lot of time for this sort of thing, but I find it unfair that we link new joiners to this page only to have them find it's going inactive. 14:03, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

This is actually true. When I first applied for a mentor, that was about... July 14th. Sooo about one month and ten days I was waiting. Which is annoying, ask me. But, can the apprentices/kits who already have mentors keep them? Us apprentices have so much to thank them for, and I've learned so much already from Duck, and it isn't really fair. Also, having a mentor gives young charart makers something to do. As well as practicing charart, it stops new users from like, well quitting the project. If I were a new user now, with my impatience and with there no chararts to do, I wouldn't be here. Looking back at that it seems so formal. But I hope my fingers fell off for a reason. Anyway, like Misty said, I think we should refresh the program, but also encourage warriors and above to apply to be a mentor. And why can't the current mentors, some who have no apprentices at the moment, grab an apprentice? It makes sense. I think. Not to offend anyone, so please poke me with a flying oreo if I did. So yeah. <span style="">15:55 Mon Oct 14

Nah, nothing you said was offensive c: Yeah I agree with this, though I know little about the program beyond its inactivity... I want to be a mentor someday... c: but i only have 1 charart approved. lmao <span style="">01:04 Tue Oct 15

I've noticed that the program has been inactive lately and I'd love to see it active again. Having a mentor has helped me a lot, and it's definitely a good thing for people just starting out to have. I think the best thing to do would be to have all mentors reapply if they wish, to see who's active and wants to continue being one. If they have apprentices right now they can continue being their mentor or, if they're not going to reapply for whatever reason, discuss with the apprentice whether they should apply for a new mentor or, if the mentor wants to, continue training, but unofficially. That seems like the best course of action to me if we do decide to refresh it. <span style="">01:25, 10/15/2013

I do agree with the fact that the mentor program (or project, in fact) is kinda lacking activity. Really, it's just a less-active phase the wiki's going through. But some people do need to update the mentor program...

Yes, SHimmer sort of sent straight of what I was trying to say about refreshing with the new mentors - don't worry, you wouldn't lose them if they still decided to be active. A new rule should also be applied - if you are a mentor you must always carry an apprentice. You can go for more if you can handle it, but you applied and you might as well make the position worth while and do something.

And like I said above, I know many people can't get on a lot/aren't as active as they used to be. But we can't let a project sit around unattended to, or we might as well deactivate it. 04:23, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but it's been a few days without any other SW commenting. May I ask for more thoughts? 17:13, October 19, 2013 (UTC)

Uh oops. I forgot about the mentor program. I'm apparently supposed to be heading that, but I really don't want the responsibility, tagged alongside my duties as deputy and leading other projects and stuff too. Like Paleh was in charge of it too but then she left and I sorta just... well I don't have the patience or attention span to mentor, so why should I still be in charge of it?

Okay, I asked Misty, and she said that she'd take over. So as of this moment, leadership of the mentor program will belong to Misty, not me. Since I was the only one in charge of it, as Paleh has left, I felt that it was time to pass it on to someone who could do a lot better of a job with it than I have as of late. x.x

Thank you, Cloudy. I promise I'll try to do my best with this program. c:

If any apprentice is still reading this (who is part of the Mentor Program) can you please message me who your mentor is, and if they are still active? I will be checking everyone's user page, but I would like to have just a bit of confirmation. 17:54, October 19, 2013 (UTC)

So wait... We're clearing everyone out and having everyone reapply, right? Just making sure I'm right on that. <span style="">06:01 Mon Oct 21

I decided to change my mind on that, and instead messaging the remaining mentors and asking if they/their apprentices are still active. So in a few days, the getting together everything should be done and the Mentor Program should be ready ^^  00:27, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Abnegation
After a bit of thinking I have decided that I would like to resign from my position as a senior warrior and step back down to warrior. It's been a fun year-and-a-half, but I would really like to start focusing on my studies more and make a greater amount of time for my offline life by starting to cut some of my ties to the wiki. I'll still be around to post chararts and such, but I would rather not feel obligated to contribute to PCA every day (or even every week), and to be honest the quarrels and dealing with immature users (yes I mean the new ones - at this point I really don't care what trouble this gets me in) has really worn my patience to the breaking point.

I have other interests and more important things to pursue in life - such as becoming an engineer and doing well in school - and my general interest and motivation to contribute to this wiki is starting to wane. And, to be honest, the "duties" of being a senior warrior are rather bothersome and I honestly just don't enjoy it like I once did. Thank you, and I would appreciate it if somebody were to move my name down. <span style="">3:54 Fri Oct 18 2013

Very well said. Should you ever wish to regain your position, we'll gladly nominate you again. I've moved you down, and wish you luck~

Leaving
So I know Cloudy removed me due to request, but I feel as if something should be said before I go for good. It's been fun, kids. But a lot has changed since 2009, when I first joined. I'm so grateful to all of you and Warriors itself for introducing me to amazing people. And I won't lie, this was a hard decision. But it's not the same - and so much has changed, which is basically why I'm leaving. I may come back to edit now and then, but right now, it's goodbye. Thanks for the memories. Signing off for the last time, 22:29, October 19, 2013 (UTC)

Alt for Graystripe?
So, in Eclipse Millie said that Bumblestripe had more stripes than Graystripe. Does that grant him an alt? <span style="">16:36 Sun Oct 20

"Big and strong already, but he has more /black/ stripes then you". Isn't Graystripe's stripe dark gray? So she's referring to Graystripe having a black stripe :) 16:39, October 20, 2013 (UTC)

"Big and strong already, but he has more /black/ stripes then you" (158) << the quote Also may I have this pic? <span style="">16:40 Sun Oct 20

More black stripes than you can mean that Graystripe has no stripes, i don't think that he should get one. 16:41, October 20, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it could be referrring to Graystripe's one stripe, so I agree, no alt. is necessary. 01:50, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

I'm thinking that, if anything, he should be tweaked so that the stripe is black. 18:02, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

His stripe is already proven to be dark grey, and that's long before this 16:24, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

And the thing is, the stripe is dark gray, and black isn't two shades off from that. And of course he'd have more stripes, because Graystripe only has one. It would be awkward for her to say "He has more stripes than the one stripe you have" or similar. So sorry but no.  18:14, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Queen Blanks
Okay, so on the approval page the queen blanks recently got declined. The majority of the project is leaning toward letting Paleh take over, but I'd like to see the opinions of everyone to make this more of a well-thought, joint decision rather than hasty permission. Do you think Paleh should take over, or we should have another vote, or something? <span style="">02:28 Wed Oct 23

The leads already got together and discussed and chose Paleh to take them over, since she was the one to get the second-highest amount of votes in the initial forum. Kelpsey, you aren't a lead, so it isn't up to you to make forums like this. We've already taken care of it, and it's done and over. 02:31, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

But do you mind giving the lower groups some representation too? I'm personally neutral on the topic, but I do believe the decision should not be exclusive to the leads only. I know I can't set up forums. It was just a suggestion. <span style="">02:41 Wed Oct 23

The lower groups had their representation when we all voted on the blanks a few months back. Berry got the most amount of votes, and Paleh came in second. When Berry couldn't finish the blanks and they were declined, Paleh, as the runner-up, gets the blanks. This was namely decided by your deputy and leader, who in the end have the final say, despite what the lower ranks might want.

Besides, just having an artist we know can handle a set of blanks and who was in favor of the project a few months back just take them over is easier than trying to start a discussion about this. Would you and others simply be content with having her do it? I don't believe we need anymore representation than what was already given on the initial forum. 02:44, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Just thought I'd also point out that's it's not like the leads made a decision such as "Yes Paleh would be good to take over" and just left it at that. The decision was, to my knowledge at least, that the blanks new artist would be decided by the same vote that decided the original artist, by picking the runner up. And that just happened to be me. Just wanted to clarify in case anybody misunderstood, just that so it doesn't seem biased or anything. o3o

Discussion is here for your reading pleasure and that's the consensus we're going with. And please, for the love of all that is good, don't turn everything into a massive drama fest like I swear you are literally filling in pixel blanks of cats seriously calm down. This is the system we've been running of for ages and not everything requires a whole vote and fireworks and a parade to get something done this site is just for fun I hope that sinks in for y'all. <span style="">3:54 Wed Oct 23 2013

Breezey I love you omg. Anyways. Scarlet and I suggested Paleh, since in fact, she is the runner up for the queen blanks. Flat out, it's the only fair way to ensure that she get her chance. We're not being biased or anything of the sort. We specifically called in Paleh for that reason. There isn't any representation needed; she was runner up on the vote, and since they were declined, it's her turn. If she doesn't get them done, then you can start all that, but for now, it's Paleh's turn. Scarlet and I decided jointly on this, and that's pretty much how it'll go.

I was wondering if i could become an apprentice? Brightpatch (talk) 20:17, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

"The leads already got together and discussed and chose Paleh to take them over, since she was the one to get the second-highest amount of votes in the initial forum. Kelpsey, you aren't a lead, so it isn't up to you to make forums like this. We've already taken care of it, and it's done and over."

...Excuse me? Are you seriously putting down Kelpsey just because she's /not a lead/? Leads aren't the only part of the project, you know. Don't you ever put down someone because they're not a lead. It's not just the leads who make up the decisions. Everyone should have a say. I don't even know what to say because right now, I'm completely shocked that you just brushed off another user because you're a lead. Seriously? What kind of respect is that? 01:32, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

If members (of any rank) want to have a discussion about who we should hand the blanks over to, we should. That only seems fair to the rest of the project.

But, may I ask, does anyone else have support over this discussion taking part? We should at least have a few more users who want to vote differently before we make a discussion out of it. If we do not have enough members that agree with Kelpsey, though, I believe the blanks should remain with Paleh. 00:14, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well, in my honest opinion, the queen blanks are coming along very nicely, so I think Paleh should keep them. <span style="">2:19 Mon Nov 4

Re-join?
Is it possible for me to rejoin?

Thank you,

<span style="text-shadow:#234244 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; background-color: None; -moz-border-radius: 2px 0px; -webkit-border-radius: 8px 0px; padding: 8px 1px 1px 1px; border:1px dashed #434543; -moz-border-radius: 1em; -webkit-border-radius: 1em; color: #1CE8FF;"><font color="#F0 FF F0" face="Vivaldi" size="7">Fez  12:34, October 24, 2013 (UTC)