Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Redoing Images?
Okay, FEEL FREE to COMPLETELY disagree with me. But anyways, I'm starting not to like the rule, when someone redos an image, they have to do the rest of the character's images. I know it's a fine idea and all, but people sometimes don't follow that rule, and the images turns out fine. People actually don't follow that rule quite often. Besides, without the rule, it would give more warriors a chance to tweak an image. Bottom line, I'm not so happy with this rule, and there are so many rules in PCA. 01:13, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. I might not be a warrior but when I am one, that is one rule we can do with out. I just want to tweak charart's so i know how to do those certain types of cats, like white's or tabbies or torties, and others. I don't want to have to follow taht because that limits the amout of charart's you can tweak and i find it unfair. Rain face &lt;3 01:16, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

To me, if you can copy the other artist's stripes or markings, you're fine. The user who has done the first image shouldn't have the act to focus on everything else. If you can copy, then do it, in my opinion. 01:24, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

How about asking permission from the person first before redoing an image that they were supposed to? (kinda like redoing an image & asking a lead) That way people wont bring the rule up when this occurs - 01:27, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I did that with Wildheart. I don't like this rule either, and we aren't exactly following it at the moment. Since it was created, we've violated it at least 10 times. 01:40, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I still like the idea, but maybe not make it so much a rule but more a basic good idea. So maybe, say that it's a good idea but not an actual rule. Other users would be given the chance to do characters that have been started by other users. i.e. Say I did Firestar's leader again but Stoneclaw decided to try his warrior. That'd be fine, but if the charart becomes to difficult, the other artist could be asked to do it since it only takes about 2-5 days to get approved. Thoughts? - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 01:47, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I can see what you guys mean, but, this is in place too to prevent a person from redoing an image then not doing the rest. Take me doing Goldenflower for example. I did a very complicated tabby pattern for her. Now, if I had just left it, maybe somebody else might do her queen. But they get frustrated because 1) they don't have her base colors and/or 2) It's too complicated for them to perfect. Also, I would have been kind of frustrated with someone doing one of her images because I knew exactly how her stripes were supposed to look on both sides of her, and that's something else to take into consideration. I'm not saying we have to stick to the rule, but I do rather like it. I do like the idea of it being a guideline, but fights could break out if, say, I did Goldenflower's warrior, then somebody did Goldenflower's kit, and I had wanted to do all of her images and there was nothing to say who was right. 01:58, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I like Scarletwind's idea. So (another example) lets say I for some reason re-did my first image, Skyheart, and all of the other images had to be redone. Someone could as me if I could do one of the other images, and I'd reply either yes or no. If no one ever asked me if I could do one of the other images, then I'd automatically do it. How's that? I am terrible at explaining things, so if that was difficult to comprehend then tell me. 02:43, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Ivystripe and Scarletwind. I think that the rule should stay, because the artist who did one rank knows the style and has the colors, but if someone askes if they can re-do the image, the one who was re-doing all the other images had to reply a yes or a no. If they say yes, and the one now doing the rank with permission finds it too difficult, the original artist doing all the ranks can take over. 05:32, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if I like the idea of it being a rule, I think I like it being an idea. What do you guys think about this? 05:54, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I think an idea is better than a rule. 05:31, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Scarletwind. 05:12, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

I like Scarletwind's idea as well. 20:34, November 14, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

I like Scarletwinds ide too, but like Ivystripe said, it doesnt sovle the problem of having only one image done and the rest being left. 00:25, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps we should just stick with the rule, it stops problems if you ask me, although I can't really talk as I'm only an apprentice. As Ivystripe stated, the artist doing all the other ranks will find it a lot easier to do the other chararts. 05:07, Mon, Nov, 28, 2011

Have we come to a decision on the matter? It seems so, as people have been breaking the original rule willy nilly (lol that expression) but I'm pretty apathetic on the topic, so don't count on me for a vote. 02:38 Fri Dec 2

A Suggestion
Haha, not a day goes by when I don't get an idea about how to improve the project! This idea comes straight from Warriors, and I thought it would be a good idea now that we have the mentor system in place.

I'd like to propose the rule that no senior warrior can become deputy (and by extension, leader) without having mentored at least one apprentice to warrior level. I feel this will ensure that our leaders will be consistently more in touch with the projects members, from the apprentices to the leads, and that they gain a bit of wisdom that comes with teaching someone (you know, the same reasons warriors can't be deputies in the books without being mentors first). Of course, this rule would not be retroactive, meaning it would not apply to the current deputy and leader, but it would apply to all future leaders and deputies.

I got support for this on the chat, but I'd like to see if the project as a whole supports this before I propose it as a vote. Thanks! 05:11, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Hm. I like this idea. I don't see why not. You got my support, Shelly. 05:14 Sat Nov 26

Not everyone wants to mentor an apprentice. What if they're amazingly skilled, but don't want to mentor? It doesn't seem fair to me, mentoring doesn't suit some members' forte. 05:20, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

That's the point, Splash. Skill isn't everything. To be a leader of anything, you have to be able to handle many aspects of the thing you lead. 05:22, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm... I like this idea, but there are some problems with it as seen above ^ but we could find something else for users who don't want an apprentice... so yeah :) -- 06:02, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea. If the leader/deputy can manage to train somebody else to make chararts well, then you know they'll be able to help everybody in the project. It would show their patience and dedication. Making good chararts is one thing, it's a whole 'nother to be able to be patient enough with people well enough to lead anything. ~Breezewhisker~ 06:54, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I support! This is a great idea. ^^ I was thinking about it myself when we first put up the mentor program, but I just kinda dropped the idea after a while. XD However, what if the mentor did all they could, and was a great teacher, but their apprentice went inactive. It doesn't really seem fair to me in that case. They were willing to take on an apprentice and did a good job teaching them, but the apprentice decided to become inactive. Is there something we can do to get around that? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  09:24, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Great idea! Though I do support, there may be some problems, like the one Splash mentioned. Since we are connecting with the book here, can I just throw out a suggestion for the mentor program? I think that the leads should pair up the mentors and apprentices, like who would be the best match. In the series, cats just couldn't go up and ask for them to be mentors. (with an exception from Rainflower xD) Though there may be some complications with this, like if they don't have enough time or work and stuff, then they may be 'excused'. Sorry for my terrible explaining skills.. xD  14:59, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I like this idea too. If Splashpelt's problem happens, they could still be deputy shouldn't they? Same as Brambleclaw's situation. He didn't have an apprentice, but he was loyal and willing to protect ThunderClan whenever he could. If a sw hasn't had an apprentice, but they're still hard working and have great chararts, it wouldn't be fair for them to not become deputy. I still agree though, but maybe it would be better if the project didn't have too many rules.. 22:28, Sat, Nov, 26, 2011

If they don't want to mentor an apprentice, nothing anyone says or does is going to change that. We are in no way, shape or form going to force any member to take on an apprentice. In fact, as good of an idea this is, I don't support it all of the way. It shouldn't be mandatory for a user to mentor another in order to become a project lead. That's just stupid, and honestly, not very fair. What if they're not good at explaining things, or they just don't have the time or patience? If they don't want to mentor someone, they don't have to in order to become a lead. It's not fair. 22:32, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

It wouldn't be for becoming a lead, just for becoming a deputy and head of project. And my point is that our leaders should be able to do these things, should be able to explain to others how to do things and have the patience to do so as well. If they don't have the time for that, how would they have time to be an active leader? If a leader is inactive, it's bad for the entire project and they get bumped to be replaced by the deputy. That's just how it is, and I think it's fair. Also, Mistypebble, I suppose it could just say that the user needs to show good mentoring ability instead of having to mentor an apprentice to graduation. 22:40, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, now. I'm a lead, and I suck at explaining things. What does the leader being inactive have to do with users mentoring apprentices? Regardless, it's forcing those who want to become leader/deputy to mentor, even if they're not comfortable with it. 22:45, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I didn't mean senior warriors when I said leaders. >.> 22:46, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I knew what you meant, trust me. That's why I said what I did. Our current leader even said herself that she's not the best at explaining things, so does this mean she's not fit to be our leader? I don't think so. She's skilled, and fair. Having the ability to explain something should have nothing to do with it. 22:49, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I think both you and Iceheart are pretty good at explaining things, but I'm starting to agree that you shouldn't have to be good at explaining things to be a deputy/leader. -- 01:23, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

I think Shellheart's right. You need to have the skills that mentors need to become a leader or deputy, for all the reasons previously listed. Yes, Iceheart said she's not the best at explaining things, but she still applied to become a mentor, did she not? It's not just explaining things, although that is a necessary part of becoming somebody with authority. It's also being active enough to be there to help somebody through their first steps as an apprentice (although not every apprentice in the mentor program is an apprentice in PCA). It's having the patience not to get annoyed at somebody who really just doesn't get what's going on, and instead being gentle and helpful. I still support this idea. 03:26 Sun Nov 27

I see the logic behind this, but theres already a good number of requirements for being a lead, and i dont really think this is nessicary. Its a good idea, but not one we need. 00:27, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

And what are those requirements? As far as I've seen, deputies are just chosen by leaders, no eletion or voting. 00:38, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

She wasn't talking about the leaders and deputies, but a lead in general. I think Iceheart's right. 00:40, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps this shouldn't be a requirement. If the deputy/leader steps down/becomes inactive, and the new/current leader knows who they want to make deputy, if they don't they could think about how good they are at explaining things, but is doesn't have to be a requirement. 05:26, Mon, Nov, 28, 2011

Should we have a vote? And Cloudy, how come you agree with Iceheart if all she said was cancelled out by the fact that she was talking about SWs? :3 03:40 Wed Nov 30

Because I don't think that you need to mentor in order to become a lead. If you're skilled enough, but don't want to deal with an apprentice of your own (ie; not enough concentration, don't have the spare time, just don't want to), why should you be denied the chance to excel? 18:33, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

I still stand by my opinion. Vote? Or no? 03:12 Thu Dec 1

I reckon we should vote. We have to get the project's opinion on this. 05:08, Thu, Dec, 1, 2011

Okay Ill set upo the forum.... 21:26, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

I forgot to put vote in the title and im really tired so the wording isnt at its best, but here it is. Go vote. 21:36, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not voting on this. While I still think it's a good idea and that Wild and I have good points, I see everyone else's point as well. Honestly, you guys know I get a lot of ideas and I always feel I should propose them to the project for consideration. When I proposed this in the chat, all of the PCA members present (including Cloudskye) agreed that is was a good idea, so I posted it. I'm sorry so few agree with me. 21:41, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, was the mention of my name really necessary? Now you're making me seem like a bad person for changing my mind. 05:00, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

That wasn't the intention. I was merely explaining why I posted my idea. I put a lot of faith in your opinions, as I feel you know the project very well. That you changed your mind doesn't make you a bad person, it just meant you thought more on it and decided you didn't think it was in the best interest in the project. Let it be known, PCA: Cloudskye is a good person. That is all. 05:17, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

SW Nominations
The other leads and i agree that it would be best if we close the SW nominations until New Years, possibly longer, but we'll cross that bridge when it comes. So everyone be aware that no senior warrior nominations will be accepted until they are reopened. The warrior nominations will go on as they have. 23:44, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

Tutorial
Warriors and leads, I need you help! The tutorial needs to be finished ASAP, because, well, it looks bad half finished and isnt much help. Please work on whatever sections arent done, i dont care if theyre already reserved, people have had their chance to work on them and havent so theyre up for grabs! Please lets just get this finished. 01:44, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

I wanted to say the two sections you did were magnificent! 02:18 Fri Dec 2

I asked Icestorm a few weeks ago if I could do the mottled section... She never answered. Could I do that one? 02:29, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Crap, never mind. I'll just do whatever's open. 02:30, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry Oblivion i didnt know you wanted it :( 02:34, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

It's fine ^^ I'll just do dual-coloured. 02:43, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Do you want to use the tutorial video I made for my apprentice in it? It goes over how to use gimp and making tabbies. I'm also going to make one for torties. 04:59, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Warriors and up are aloud? If so, I can do a section. 23:00, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

Some Thoughts
So we were thinking that these should be part of the guidelines: So ya thats new. 23:23, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you leave/are removed from the project, you come back as a rank lower, regardless of what rank you are (Except apprentices, they have now where to go down.)
 * You now only have to be a member of the project for a month to be eligable for warrior nominaiton

And leaders/deputies who leave become SWs when they return? Or warriors? 23:30 Sat Dec 3

Wait, i re-joined a week ago....does that mean i have to be a apprentice again? Maple♥ pool  Mischief brewing 23:35, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the possible guideline additions. It makes sense. 23:38 Sat Dec 3

It's just an idea, Maple, but if we all agree upon it, then you might. 00:01, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm...Very well, if i have to, i won't complain(much.) Maple♥  pool  Mischief brewing 04:27, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Honestly, I just have to say that it doesn't really matter what rank you are. The only difference from apprentices from the rest is that they can't tweak chararts and that's not a huge deal if you ask me. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 04:46, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

I don't really think this is necessary. The users with higher ranks have already have had experience and it doesn't make sense if they have to go down a rank if they leave and re-join. 23:56, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

I'm neutral about this. I like the idea, however, as Ivyheart stated, they already have experience so it kind of deosn't make sence. But I have an idea for this. Lets say a user joined the project again, and before he/she was a senior warrior. They can be a warrior, but we could give them, lets say a month to prove themself worthy to be a senior warrior again, and if they fulfill that, they become a senior warrior. However, if they don't, they could either stay as a warrior or get kicked out, depending on how active they are. 05:56, Tue, Dec, 6, 2011

Demotion Discussion
Look here to discuss the new idea of demotion. 23:31 Sat Dec 3

Proposal for the Elimination of Warrior Nominations
This conversation has been moved to the forum.

Tweaking Timelimit
A topic that came up during the leads' chat, but I wanna get everyone else's opinion on it. Since we have a limit for chararts on the main page, I see no reason why not to have a limit for chararts being tweaked and redone on the tweak page, so I think this is accurate. This is what I propose, it'll help things run smoother. And, when you take a charart to tweak/redo, just ask yourself first, "Can I get this done in an efficient amount of time?". It shouldn't take a month for a seasoned warrior to redo a charart. Thoughts for improvement?
 * 1) Tweaking - you have one week to tweak a charart, but honestly, a tweak should only take about 3 days. It doesn't take a week to tear an ear.
 * 2) Redone chararts - I propose two weeks. It isn't that hard to get it done. A user usually wouldn't have to think of an entirely new design either. Usually, redone chararts only take between 5-10 days.

Sounds good to me, but it should be that if an image is maybe a day or two from being ready to be approved, it should stay up still, just like we do with the normal chararts. It probably won't happen much, cause, as you've said, usually images only take that long as long as they're actually WORKING on it, however it may happen occasionally. So yeah, I agree, but it should be like how we do it with the normal image 1 months thing. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  06:50, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

This seems like a good idea to me, also. So, for tweaking a week and redoing 2 weeks? 16:20, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Yep, I like the idea. But for the tweaking, shouldn't the time vary, depending on what you're tweaking it on? 05:58, Tue, Dec, 6, 2011

Firestar
So on the cover of The Last Hope Firestar has a white muzzle and white markings around his eyes. Would he get an alt. or a tweak for this? 21:51, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

I think an alt, but I'm not sure. Either an alt or it's insignificant enough to not have one. 22:01, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Well maybe it's just a tweak because he is really old :P 22:03, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

I believe that we don't use the book cover for references. 22:04, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

No, we do not. However, it's probably his muzzle turning gray from age or something. After all, he deals with a lot of issues. 22:26, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

And he's what, seven years old, so a tweak probably. 23:00, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

He probably shouldn't get his image tweaked until there's some mention of it in the books: covers aren't reliable :3 04:09 Tue Dec 6

Yeah, and really, he's had a white muzzle and white around his eyes for a couple books now, including Firestar's Quest when he was still a new leader. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  04:01, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Tweaks
Just a reminder to warriors/senior warriors, since none of you seem to read the news: You do not need to put a date on the table for tweaking. The only time you should have a date is if you're doing one image and tweaking one. So if you have two tweaks up, the date should be N/A. This has been bugging me for a while now, and I figured putting it on the talk page would make it more noticeable for those who don't read the news. 00:37, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

THANK YOU. Nobody reads my news ^^ <span style="">03:52 Tue Dec 6

Yeah, so few people read the news. XD What if we like, made a really pretty, eye-catching template for it? XD ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  17:40, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Description vs Alternate
I have started a discussion about what warranets an alt and what warrants a tweak. You can check it out here 00:45, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

Join Request ~ Moonshine78999
Hi I am Moonshine78999 and I really would like to join. I don't know anything about charats, but I requested a mentor on December 3rd. No replies yet :(. After I learn more about charats, I would love to be a warrior of PCA. So can I join?--Rainwillow 00:49, December 6, 2011 (UTC)Moonshine78999

Certainly! I'll add you in now. Make sure to take a look at apprentice tutorials, mentor program, and the guidelines to get you started. Welcome to PCA! 16:04, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

Something...
I think we should discuss about this. Too man users join this project and never do anything. It doesn't matter if they can't find a charart to do, they could still comment. Half the apprentices here never did anything. Any ideas to decrease the amount of apps joining and doing nothing? I believe this should be discussed. 04:18, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

A really random suggestion, so feel free to disagree, but we could make a pre-test, and all users willing to join have to past the test. It wouldn't be hard or anything, like one could be a charart, not so good one, and the users wanting to join will have to comment on something good about, and something bad. 05:03, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

No, no, and no. We cannot and will not exclude anybody from joining this project. I mean, yeah, I don't like it when apprentices join then when they don't get the cat they want, they throw a hissy fit and leave, or the ones who post a picture but leave because it's too hard. We've seen how things like this can be detrimental to the project, just look at the kit rank. We have to deal with users like that, but through all the non-quality users, you get gems like Thistleberry and Breezewhisker. We should just leave things the way they are, and if we have to deal with apprentices who don't follow the rules or have a bad attitude, so be it. They'll just have their name removed for inactivity. I'm not trying to shoot you down, I'm just letting you know why it wouldn't work. 05:15, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with Ivystripe. This probally won't work, but it is annoying how many users join and don't stay active. A pre-test for the project might work, but I doubt it. <span style="">08:32, Tue, Dec, 6, 2011

No, as seen with the kit rank, no "pretest" or exclusion is going fix this problem. We have this problem in every project. We've seen a solution to this problem, and all that "solution" did was cause more problems. 13:44, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

Isn't it just easier to remove them every few weeks for inactivity anyway? Having a pre-test would just casue more problems than needed. We don't need another kit rank mess. >:V -- Elorisa   14:01, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

Not all apprentices do nothing. Also if they are it is probably because they can't find something to do or don't know what to do. Sorry but PCA doesn't have many images to do..that's why many have gone inactive. 16:10, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

Well, being an apprentice sorta is a pre-test, isn't it? I agree that probably the best way to handle it is to just remove them if they become inactive, like you do now. ~Breezewhisker~ 21:52, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

I think the kit system would work or having a mentor for about a week to show you around and teach you the basic things to say when commenting chararts 22:57, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

But we can't not let them reserve and do chararts. That's the whole point. Kit has already said preventing people from participating is counter-productive. 00:58, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I honestly think that we get all these users joining but do nothing because they think that joining PCA will make them cool or amazing or something. This is just my opinion, so don't start with personal reasons for joining. As to what to do, though it might take some more work, leads could keep track of apprentices/users who join but do nothing. I know we can't stop people from joining, but, honestly, if they're not going to actually do anything to help PCA, why bother letting them join? If, say user a asks to join pca, gets accepted, does nothing and gets removed and the sequence repeats about 3 times, I think it's really not worth the time to re-add them to the project. It's just useless effort and work that we have to do in good faith that they'll actually help the project. Yes, I'm frustrated so my tone might feel a bit coarse, but I hate this problem, I always have and always will. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 01:06, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Join?
Hi! I'm Bluefeather. Can I join PCA? After I saw Ivyheart's charart she did for me, it inspired me to become an even better charartist. I owe you Ivy! 14:20, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

Certainly! I'll add you in now. Make sure to take a look at apprentice tutorials, mentor program, and the guidelines to get you started. Welcome to PCA! 16:04, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

Join?
Can I join (Been so long since I've been part of this project :P, so I think it would be called re-joining, but oh well XD) Hope I can re-join :)  Who you going to call?  Ghostbusters 00:01, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Of course! Review the Guidelines if you need to refresh your memory. I'll add you in as an apprentice. 00:08, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Ravenpaw
Would he get an alt for his depiction in the mangas? He's solid black with grey facial markings - not a speck of white on him. ~Breezewhisker~ 03:41, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

I think we've had this discussion before, and since it's not much of a difference, he doesn't get one. I'm not sure though. 03:43, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Nope, he doesn't get one. It's a very minor change, just like Firestar getting one where he has a little white around his muzzle. 04:01, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Alright. One more question, does Oakheart get one for being described as fox-colored? I noticed Pinestar has one for that, and he's reddish-brown like Oakheart. ~Breezewhisker~ 04:25, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

That one actually recently got declined because Oakheart is pretty much fox colored anyway. Not trying to shoot ya down Breeze :C 04:31, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Pff. It's perfectly fine. I was just browsing around and noticed those. ~Breezewhisker~ 04:37, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

New Shading
Since the blanks are approved, where will we put shading and highlights? <span style="">00:55 Thu Dec 8

I'm pretty sure I know. I'll add it to the tutorial if no one has any objections? I'll do that now  00:57, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

... i dont know where my comment went but i just said wildheart has got it... 01:01, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Aww :C I haven't contributed much to the apprentice tutorials yet but ok  01:05, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick reply! :D Can't wait! <span style="">01:07 Thu Dec 8

On the topic of apprentice chararts, did we decide to just start with all the chararts once the blanks are approved or just do the ones in TFW and SkyClan Manga? Cause some users have started reserving other chararts than those (Bluestar, Oakheart, etc.) - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 01:30, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Only those that need them. And actually, Oakheart needs one. 01:33, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

So that means no Bluestar and stuff, right? lol *Curses bad memory* - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 01:34, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Those that do not already have one get one. Oakheart's was started by Goldenpaw, but he never finished the image. 02:18, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, Ivy. I'm working on that right now: I'll probably add it in today or tomorrow, depending on how much time I have. <span style="">02:50 Thu Dec 8

Announcement: Apprentices
Hey guys! In case you haven't noticed, the apprentice blanks are now approved! I want to cover something that many of you have overlooked:

We are only doing apprentice images for those on the characters needing art page! All other reservations made at the moment will be removed and/or declined on sight as we are not redoing the apprentices until after the Last Hope. So please, do not reserve your favorite character unless they are on the needing art page, please and thank you <3 And until Wildheart has submitted the apprentice shading, anybody unsure of the placement can ask me and I'll email them a copy because I made it for a friend. I don't mind sharing.

Thanks, and have fun using the new blanks! 02:24, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

And another thing, I made up a list of some of the older users who've been around before we decided to remake the blanks. I might've missed some, so don't be offended. The list is here. On the list, under each user's name, I have listed all the apprentice chararts that they were the OA of or redid and the old OA isn't around anymore. Before any of you decided to make your favorite charart's apprentice charart in advance, look here first to see if it's already been taken. If you're not on the list or I've missed some of your apprentice chararts that you made, go a head and add yourself in. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 02:27, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, can I rejoin? Please. Please. Pretty please? Thanks. ;P 02:32, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Can I list Ravenpaw's apprentice? I tweaked it but I had to redo most of it and Bramble nor Sandwich is around anymore. 02:34, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that we ever decided about tweaked chararts, but I guess. But we're not starting that whole process until after the Final Hope. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 02:35, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, but here's a question: why can't we do the old apprentices yet? It's four months until The Last Hope comes out. That's a lot of down time. I think we should at least move the date up. Not like there's much to do right now but alts. 02:41, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

^ I'm in agreement with this. There's no point in not. The ones needing them will likely all be on the approval page by next week and it'll speed up the process. You could always put them on hold for a couple weeks before and after The Last Hope if you're concerned about space. ~Breezewhisker~ 03:08, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Just think though (and this is why) after the last hope, how many characters do you think there'll be available? It'll probably be a loooOOOoooOOOoong time before there's a new book out, so that's the project to take up that time. Make sense? 03:15, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Not to mention summer'll be so close at hand and there'll be more people around to make things go faster - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 03:17, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I understand, but that's not our mission statement, is it? Our job is to make the chararts, not to dither over it so we can make the project last longer. 03:23, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

You know... Shelly's right. I personally don't think it's right that we wait, because if we do, the project's going to fall into that pre-book slump it usually does. We probably won't have to wait very long for Dawn of the Clans to come out, and there's Yellowfang's Secret that should come out next summer, providing a little more work. Maybe it would be good that we allow the images to be done now, instead of waiting. If we allow it now, there'll be more time later on to fix up images that need tweaking (there's well over 700 characters, so there's got to be mistakes and such) and redoing. Also, it would give some users here a break, and maybe they'll start contributing to the rest of the wiki, instead of just PCA. 03:51, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I agree. I mean, what's the point of not doing them? TFW came out two weeks ago, and we're out of chararts. Who knows, maybe we'll finally finish every single charart, a concept so mind-blowing to me I can't even imagine it. 04:08, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Seriously, we need to start the old apprentices, if not now, then soon. There's no valid reason not to. It is this projects mission to do this, and to put it off goes against that. 17:33, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Why put it off? Just so we can have more space open when The Last Hope comes out? If it's really that big of a deal, just expand the amount the approval page can hold, if only temporarily. It's not right to put it off this long for no real good reason. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  17:37, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, too. If we wait until The Last Hope comes out, (and possibly Yellowfang's Secret) this will just cause more clutter to the approval page. (if we don't go with Paleclaw's idea) 20:22, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah people are already putting up chararts for other apprentices we should just start all of them 22:03, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

YES, more mork! I'll actually get to do my first charart! Well I'll see what I can do. I'll be doing apprentices for a long time. Um, I totally agree that we shouldn't wait. I would state my full opinion, but it's pretty much what others just said. 23:39, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I think it should be we can do two chararts until the apps are done. We're trying to get them done as soon as possible thats as good a plan as any, along with starting now. We should do it. And dont BS me about how its not giving everyone a fair chance to do one, thats not the point of the project, you get one or you dont, thats that, if you dont get one, youre SOL. It would speed it up a heck of a lot. 00:08, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good to me! Does that make it official? :3 00:26, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Yes go crazy. 00:27, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

I'm officially confused. Does this mean we can have 2 chararts for approval (including old apprentices?) or that the people who have already done app. chararts get 2 of their original images? <span style="">01:13 Fri Dec 9

Okay lets clear it up. Anyone can have two chararts up for approval now as long as one is an apprentice (theres really not much other choice), and warriors and leads can have 3 chararts up for approval, as long as one is an apprantice and one is a tweak/redo. I made i bold so hopefully some people will read it. 01:21, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Ginger Cats in the Comics
I'm writing this as I've had a few different people asking me if they can make alts for ginger cats shown without stripes in the comics. However, as most ginger cats are not described as tabbies in the books, I do not believe being shown in the comics without stripes would warrent an alt.

The same goes for all tabbies, actually. Frankly, I don't think Dan Jolley likes drawing complicated tabbies in comics, and I can't say I blame him. When you do that, you have to repeat the pattern over and over again exactly, I imagine he had a hard enough time with a pattern like Millie's. So the guy only adds stripes to the head to indicate that the cat is a tabby, like with Brackenfur and Firestar in A Clan in Need. I don't think that a cat shown with only a stripe on the head (sich as Silverstream in the comic at the end of Crookedstar's Promise) should get/have gotten alts as the stripe still indicates that they are tabby.

Feel free to post a rebuttal agreeing or disagreeing with me. This is just how I feel when I think on it logically. 14:33, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I agree that ginger cats that aren't described as tabbies in the book, and are shown as solid shouldn't get alt, but I really do think ginger cats that ARE described as tabbies in the book, but shown as solids in the manga, should get alts. It'd be no different than say, Leafpool, being shown as a solid. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  16:35, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Well yeah. If Firestar, one of the few ginger tabbies actually called a tabby in the books, was shown as a solid he'd get an alt. But he hasn't been. But a cat like Billystorm, only ever described as ginger and white, would not get an alt for being without stripes in SkyClan's comics. 17:17, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Yep. So in this case, Sharpclaw and Jaggedtooth should get alts. And when was Firestar described as a tabby? XD Did I just completely miss this? :P *goes to check his pahe* ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  17:34, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I swear he was described as a tabby... hmm. Meh, I still don't think Firestar would get an alt for the tabby stripe on his head, as his charart is already tabby. Sharpclaw and Jaggedtooth, maybe. I don't have the graphic novel on me. If they have absolutely no stripes on them whatsoever, yes I suppose they would. 17:39, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, no ginger cats shown as tabbies should get alts. And nope, nowhere on his page. XD You must be thinking of another cat. :P And Sharpclaw is shown as completely solid, and Jaggedtooth with a lighter muzzle. No stripes at all. You can look in the Browse Insides for proof. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  17:42, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I dunno if this'd count, but I think it should count for something. Firestar has been shown on the covers numerous times, as well as Cats of the Clans, and each and every single flipping time he is shown as a tabby. That can't be a consistant mistake. I'd like to think the Erins intended Fire to be a tabby. I don't really think that they should get a solid alt, but at the same time, there've been many cats in the series that doesn't follow genetics (hey, fun fact- did you know that it is incredibly rare for a non-purebred cat to have blue eyes? Nonpurebred cats usually have an eye color that is greenish-yellowish) 18:19, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think ginger cats should have to have stripes the artist should be able to choose because I read somewhere that all cats have tabby stripes even if they are pale so that mean they all should have stripes but that would take forever and it wouldn't make sense to redo all of them. 22:09, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

We've already redone them all (or at least most of them) Wildfire. =_= We made that decision a while ago. Yes, all cat have the tabby M on their head. But all ginger cats have a full set of tabby stripes. We're trying to be genetically correct in our chararts. 22:33, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I know that, I was here when 'we' decided that. I'm just saying that we shouldn't have to change anymore or when the new series comes out, we shouldn't have to make the ginger cats tabby, unless you want to redo all the images. 00:03, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

This is a little more important than a "Vacation List" announcement...
Hi, guys. I'm coming to tell you that my internet connection is going to be very unstable for the next...wait. Who am I kidding? I don't know how long it'll be. >.>;;

For those who don't know, my home (the first floor and everything in it) was destroyed by the aftereffects of Hurricane Irene and Tropical Storm Lee. In all honesty, it was the latter that did us in. The former just made the rivers go up a tad... We're still not home, and won't be until after the new year.

Anyways, we're finally getting the FEMA trailer, and I don't know if I'll have internet connection, or anything of the sort. I'll still have my phone, but getting on the wiki on something like that is..kinda weird. I'll be on MSN, AIM, Yahoo and FB, so if you really want to reach me, ask me for the messengers, and I'll give you my contact information. Or, if you'd like my cell number, I'll give that to you as well, but if and only if you're in my circle of friends. You know who you are. =)

Anyways, I'm letting you know of this via talk page, because I don't want to come back and find myself back down in the Warrior rank because of something I couldn't prevent. I'd like my lead spot back if I happen to get kicked from PCA, because this is something I have no control over. I didn't choose this, nor did I want it. If anything, I want to go home.

'kay, sorry for the sob story. Anyways, if I'm not on come the weekend, y'all know why. Miss y'all and love you. 16:22, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Mentor Templates?
Hey, I was wondering, would it be possible to make some PCA Mentor program templates? Like "This user was mentored in the PCA by Usernamehere" or "This user mentored Usernamehere in the PCA". Like the ones that you used to have for AaU. I just thought it'd be nice. Not really anything that important. XD ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  21:04, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Ooh, thats a good idea! :D 21:17, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Love this idea! <span style="">22:09 Thu Dec 8

That;s a cool idea! 23:42, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I've been wanting these :) 00:00, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Mountainheart - Rejoin Request
I messed up on my last rejoin request lol. May I rejoin pretty please with sprinkles n stuff? Thank you so so soooo much. ;P 23:53, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Of course! I'll add you in. Review the Guidelines if you need to refresh your memory, and welcome back! 23:57, December 8, 2011 (UTC)