Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Sharptooth
Hello! I was talking to Jayce and Echo on Discord, and we were discussing whether we should make a general page for all Sharptooths (since that is what mountain lions are called in both DotC and NP) and include Moonrise's Sharptooth as a major example, or keep the article we have for Sharptooth (NP) and create a separate general Sharptooth page. Personally, I like the first option better, as that contains all the information about all Sharptooths in the series on one article. What are everyone's thoughts? 23:00, December 10, 2018 (UTC)

They should definitely be separate, since the Sharptooth article we have now is referring to one character, not a species as a whole. Given they were mentioned in at least two arcs, it's not like it's just a one-off mention. If other species also get pages (Stoats just got one, I think), I'm pretty sure they should be separate. The discussion would start here due to the Sharptooth page itself falling to PC. ​

I'm all for the second option you provided, Hawkey, since like Jayce said the Sharptooth in TNP was pivotal character in the series, though the species as a whole is still worth having its own article. 02:34, December 11, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah sure, they are characters after all^^ Not sure if they've ever appeared in the field guides, but we could try to find their images if they have them 18:33, December 16, 2018 (UTC)

I think we should have two separate articles, seeing as the one in Moonrise played an important part and deserves an article to themselves.

Yeah I think there should be a species page then a character page for the Sharptooth in NP, since it was pretty important.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:16, December 24, 2018 (UTC)

I like the idea~Owlmask

yeah, sure. 00:37, December 26, 2018 (UTC)

If we are creating a Sharptooth article for the species, it should go to PW. However, since it is already here and is in agreement, are there any other objections before the article is created? 01:12, December 30, 2018 (UTC)

Any more comments?

ravenpaw and barley
so relooking at this cite, I think ravenpaw and barley should be listed as mates. youd associate living with each other (and being in love obvs) as partners, and its not refuting anything thats ever been said in the books, rf specificially. not to mention one of violets kits asking them if they had kits, as well as spottedleaf telling ravenpaw barley would not love him any less for dying and leaving him behind....seems to really say it all. kits have never been a concrete requirement for mates anyway, like squirrelfight and brambleclaw and twigbranch and finleap. 18:17, December 28, 2018 (UTC)

we should add them as mates. although it doesn’t state barley loved ravenpaw back as much, we still have plenty of proof in the books.

18:29, December 28, 2018 (UTC)

There's an abundance of evidence, especially in Ravenpaw's Farewell and the mangas. Like, to the point where it's obvious that the authors really want to explicitly call them mates but they simply aren't allowed to by the editors/publishers. I agree that they should be listed as mates. 18:33, December 28, 2018 (UTC)

<3 Please, please, please let's do this. 21:49, December 28, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with adding this^^

Agreed. 01:04, December 30, 2018 (UTC)

Yesss, I totally agree. This should have been done a long time ago! :) 01:36, December 30, 2018 (UTC)

Definitely. it's been shown that Ravenpaw really loves Barley.

I support adding this^ 03:02, December 31, 2018 (UTC)

I think if she was referring to a male and female, it would already be considered as proof they are mates, so I say yes.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:10, December 31, 2018 (UTC)

One-off cites
Wanted to bring up something that we have several instances of - from what I can remember, on Mudfur (mottled), Firestar (dark ginger), Jayfeather (mottled?), Tawnypelt's pale cite. As a standard though, when cats are mentioned many many many times, I think it's bad precedent to include these descriptors on their articles. Some of these cats has PoVs, books to themselves....take Mudfur, who's solid in his image appearance in manga, yet has one mottled cite, so it sticks yet contradicting that. While we haven't given images credence in the past, PCA has deemed to recognize that these images are official, so perhaps PC should too.

Flametail was mentioned as dark ginger in his very first appearance, but in the hundreds of mentions afterwards, he's just as ginger, and is reflected in his official artwork. The most notable case is probably Firestar, who is flame-colored. Fire provides light... and in his artwork (barring a nighttime shot in RP where the lighting ids dark) he is shown as bright. While nothing directly contradicts, I personally believe we should not be listing him as dark ginger, and everyone said to look like him made to be dark ginger, due to one mention in FQ based on everything else we have. Why should we continue to list these, when they contradict evidence to the contrary? If they are mentioned more than once, and nothing else contradicts, they would be valid, but in these and other cases I believe they're null. I believe we should alter the guidelines on descriptions officially in PC, to account for cases like this. Thoughts?

I agree, and I thought we were already doing this, with cases such as Nightpaw (RC) and Fringepaw, of those that come to recent memory. If they are contradictory to the basic description, and only mention once, they should be listed as a mistake imo. 16:55, December 29, 2018 (UTC)

I agree. I think there should probably be more digging into cites that count and do not count (broken cites, one off cites), but cites that appear once and conflict with the description and do not ever appear again, especially on main characters, should be taken into careful consideration and possibly removed. 01:11, December 30, 2018 (UTC)

Agreed^ 01:15, December 30, 2018 (UTC)

cases like firestar, probably. he's a significant character and has a very specific prophecy and such revolving around his pelt colour. cases like tawnypelt, no. they're just them being specific for once, and literally nothing has contradicted her pale cite (excluding the white in her images, but that doesn't relate to the pale here. just her having white in general.) artwork is not infallible nor the main source we are taking from, as well as much of it having some sort of error and is why we have the alt art going on currently. the books comes first; or else we may as well remove say violetshine's mostly white appearance in favour of the more black art, but that contradicts what the books have said she looks like.

if perhaps the character is consistently and for the longest time mentioned as something that contradicts what a one off mention says, thats fine, even though i think we've gotten most of those. but if it's not contradicted in any way, it should stay. so mudfur's would stay as nothing contradicts it aside from manga art (which I believe has white on him anyway?) 01:37, December 30, 2018 (UTC)

Things that are constantly mentioned should override one-off cites since they have been mentioned more than something mentioned once. However, if they don't have anything contradicting said one-off cite, then it shouldn't be removed, because there's nothing there. Basically what Skt said, but it's a case-by-case thing.

Any more comments?

I'm not sure we can remove Firestar's cite for being dark ginger. I found a cite in page 76 of Sunset (Leafpool's perspective referencing Squirrelflight): "The sunlight gleamed on her dark ginger fur, turning it to flame, and for an instant she looked just like their father." There are many other times during that arc that Squirrelflight is mentioned to be similiar looking to Firestar, so we can dismiss that cite that says he is dark?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:17, January 4, 2019 (UTC)

The thing about that was... the sunlight hit her fur, and turned to flame, which made her look like her father. Like, the sun was making seem that way, which could be interpreted as further proving that her father is the color of flame, which is not Squirrelflight's color without the light hitting it directly. I'm not sure we take lighting subjective cites anyway, otherwise I'd throw out the bright cite that Fireheart has from Fire and Ice when they find WindClan, which would be first and trump the Firestar's Quest one anyways. Anyways yeah, really these would be case by case, but Firestar especially has a lot of evidence against him being dark ginger.

Icons
An idea thought up by Icy, for the infoboxes. Thoughts?

I think these are adorable, and definitely spice up userboxes with a lot of affiliations! It also makes them easier to see, which is a nice bonus. 16:52, December 29, 2018 (UTC)

It looks really good, and I like the idea in general, I am in favor of using it. Thanks for coding it, Spooky, it is really well done. 01:12, December 30, 2018 (UTC)

^ what Vec said, it's really nice and adds some personality to it.

Adding them would be a nice touch. 03:02, December 31, 2018 (UTC)

So cute! Yes it would really add to the articles.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:14, December 31, 2018 (UTC)

Graystripe's parents
For the longest time, we have had Willowpelt and Patchpelt listed as Graystripe's parents. Except for the fact that they... are brother and sister. Per this, I believe that we should remove this cite from Graystripe's page. It was mentioned once, and the precedence of the fact that the two are siblings should ride over this mention. 02:43, December 29, 2018 (UTC)

I personally think we should hold off until the refurbished warriors website is released in early January. It's said to have family trees, and if Patchpelt and Willowpelt are said to be his parents there, then I think we should keep it. If not, then we should remove it. I know we question the validity of the websites, but I'm still curious to see. 16:50, December 29, 2018 (UTC)

I honestly think it should be removed... it was mentioned once, AND they're siblings, plus wasn't it a mistake? i'm sure if they hadn't forgotten the two were siblings they wouldn't have been put together... unless that doesn't count. unsure about waiting to see the new website. We didn't count stuff from the other one, I don't think, so not sure if this one would count either. 01:22, December 30, 2018 (UTC)

Idk about this, it definitely seems like a mistake, and it's one-off, but I don't think the whole thing should be ruled out. We should probably wait a bit.

This is definitely a mistake, obviously it was forgotten they were siblings. Although maybe make a note saying "They were stated to be mates, but it's probably a mistake" or something along those lines. I'd say wait until the family tree on the website changes anything, or we can use Redtail's Debt as a source since it takes place around the time where Graystripe was born, and maybe clear up the discrepancies. 21:01, December 31, 2018 (UTC)

I'm honestly not sure we can dismiss this as a cite. Although if they make it different in Redtail's Debt, then I would go with it since a while ago I believe Kate said that the books go over author's word.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:23, December 31, 2018 (UTC)

Actually since we taking the new website as cites, it lists Graystripe's father as unknown. So I'm more or so willing to say it's a mistake now a more recent cite is saying otherwise.Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:13, January 4, 2019 (UTC)

Unconfirmed Deaths
Many cats in the series randomly disappear. A lot... But some characters that are as old as Tallstar's Revenge and those SE have to be dead just based on cat lifespans. So cats like Piketooth and Reena have to be dead. Not to mention all the DotC characters and Field Guide characters. We could change their residence to unknown, which would make a bit more sense in my opinion. I'm not sure if we would give them the unknown residence blank, but that's a discussion for PCA. Thoughts?

15:49, December 30, 2018 (UTC)

Well, you could use the same argument for other characters, really. Mistystar and Mosspelt should be dead by now, but that does not mean SE characters should be. I think we are fine putting them as we last saw them, because there really is no confirmation otherwise. 02:40, December 31, 2018 (UTC)

Idk. See, cats like Reena and Piketooth are in books that were set a long time ago. Mistystar and Mosspelt should probably be dead by now, but cats from some older books are most definitely dead, such as Gorsestar. There should be a time as to when cats are most definitely dead, although that time might be arbitrary and I agree with Icy in the fact that it's kind of blurry as to when a cat is supposed to die. Apologies if I don't make any sense, I'm not exactly sure how to phrase this lol.

Hmm I kinda concur with Star. Like, cats with any reasonable doubt should stay as we last saw them, but DotC cats? Nooooo way they are still alive. Most of the cats that appeared in basically SH and before are dead dead, and we can even cite it to an academic cite of the longest lifespan possible for a cat.

And maybe we could set a limit, for example if a clan cat doesn’t appear for an arc they are considered unknown? while for rogues and loners we could just leave their residence the same unless they are from dotc.

02:54, December 31, 2018 (UTC)

I agree. For example, Reedshine should be dead, considering Mapleshade's Vengeance took place many, many years ago, and so would her kits. Any character from Super Editions like Tallstar's Revenge, Yellowfang's Secret, and Crookedstar's Promise must have died many years ago, along with the ancient novellas like Pinestar's Choice (I am thinking of Flamenose) So yeah, either their residence should be unkwown or if we have a cite for them it should say StarClan.Potato Flakin (talk) 18:19, December 31, 2018 (UTC)

putting it as starclan is an assumption. we know nothing of the faith (or lack of) for these cats. 20:44, December 31, 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure since there are so many mistakes in the series on that subject (think Mistystar, Tallpoppy and should Graystripe still be alive?????). We could put a "likely deceased" or something along those lines, then treat them as if they are deceased?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:19, December 31, 2018 (UTC)

I'd be fine labeling those cats as unknown or likely deceased, particularly those from DotC and the early super editions. I like Ari's idea of labeling them too if they don't appear in a while, cats like Copperpaw and Dewspots who kinda just fell off the face of the earth  02:17, January 1, 2019 (UTC)

Demotion System
So, Icy brought up something in PW that I found interesting--a downgrading system. And I thought I'd bring it up here, because there are some articles here that...may not be so deserving of their current status. Also, character pages are always changing so what was considered silver a while ago may not be currently. I would like to propose a system similar to what Icy has brought up. If an article is not deserving of its current status, then it should be downgraded, and it can always be re-promoted. Thoughts?

Agreed^^Some of these articles don’t deserve their respective gold or silver titles, and if hey aren’t being actively improved, they should be stripped of said rank and then given it back when the article is deserving of it. It’s misrepresentative to call these articles gold when they’re nowhere close to our best work

I agree as well, and it was always something that puzzled me when I first came across the wiki how many years ago; articles are constantly changing as the majority of the main cast are still doing things in the newer books; cats like Jayfeather and Bramblestar come to mind. Not saying these articles are bad! Just an example of a few that are constantly changing about every six months. 05:52, January 2, 2019 (UTC)

Was actually waiting for the discussion to conclude in PW before this was brought up here, but PC might be a little tricky matter. PW has articles that are absolutely poorly written as well as unfinished, while PC has excellently written articles that just are not complete. So this is a trickier system to tackle. 06:01, January 2, 2019 (UTC)

Hmm whereas PW will likely have things going from gold to started or planned even, PC might end up being more of a gold down to just silver or bronze. Even if it's excellently written, I believe gold articles should only be ones that are fully complete and quality work, so we could knock those down to silver and they can earn their gold back, perhaps? There are some PC articles that contain many issues such as bias, typos, sentence structure issues, not from the right PoV issues... those might get knocked down to bronze, I would think, as they're complete technically but not truly up to par.

February FA
Better late than never, am I right? Anyways, suggestions?

What does everyone think about Rowanberry? 23:33, January 4, 2019 (UTC)

I like Rowanberry, or Reedfeather. 23:38, January 4, 2019 (UTC)

WarriorCat Website Family Tree
Since we are accepting it as canon, there's a few things Thunder and I have picked up that needs to be discussed.

(Tip for navigation: StarClan is about all dead cats and Clan affiliation is all alive cats).


 * There's a line going between the siblings Spottedpelt and Gorseclaw and the parents Cloudstar and Birdflight. Usually, if it's only trying to connect relations to distantly placed characters, it would be a different colour, but this one isn't. Does this establish Sweetbriar and Fallowsong as SkyClan descendants, or only siblings?


 * Mate lines show a heart in the centre. Crowfeather and Feathertail have a line, but does not show a heart. Is this a mistake or a confirmation they are mates? It is placed like they are mates, but there is no hearts.


 * Dappletail and Stormtail also have the same problem as Crowfeather and Feathertail do above.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:18, January 5, 2019 (UTC)