Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Things That Are Artist's Choice
I was checking through the guidelines and noticed *unless I'm blind* they didn't say anything about what exactly is artist's choice on a charart. Shouldn't they be established and added for future members/refrence? 21:52, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Fur length (unless it's WindClan or RiverClan), eye color, pale underbellies, shading placement, ect.

It doesn't need to be added to the guidelines. I'm confident that you guys can figure out what's artist's choice or not, and if it isn't we'll tell you. 21:56, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

I was just thinking it should be added because it would be a lot easier then repeating it to who-knows-how many new users each time they ask.. 00:40, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I find nothing wrong with a small section of the guidelines being added that says what exactly is artist's choice and what isn't. When I first joined, I had someone tell me (not sure who) that the default eye color was blue for characters that didn't have an eye color that was cited. I didn't actually know there wasn't a specific color until months later.

There's no harm done, but I'm not sure it's fully necessary. Most of the things that are the artists choice is scattered throughout the whole guidelines, but it probably would help other users. 07:23, 14, 05, 2012

I think it will benifet users making art, it would tell them what is their choice to do, so they don't have to be put under pressure of looking through the guidelines multiple times when it's not necessary. Sincerely: ChanCharm 03:24, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

One Last Proposal Before I Go
Ah, hey guys. something came to mind right after I posted my message... and I couldn't ignore it. I'll just be making this proposal and leaving you guys to deal with it how you see fit.

It's pretty simple. I think there should be a chart on the front page of PCA with blank slots for users not in the project to use to reserve chararts if they wish to do so without joining.

So have fun with that. 02:18, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

I could've sworn that you could just add yourself into the chart (not the members table, though). It's what I did a year and half-odd ago. 02:21, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

That's what I did when I first found PCa too. I made a charart or two and just added my name without joining. 03:36, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but having a second chart would make it more obvious to users that they can do that. Many don't have a clue. 108.4.1.7 04:33, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's necessary. Even though most users aren't so good with coding, they could always ask a lead, and we rarely get non-member users to offer charart. :/ 06:50, 07, 05, 2012

"Rarely" doesn't mean "never". I don't see any problem with having an open slot on the reservation chart. It'd be better then having the user think they need too join, submit one charart, then be removed due to inactivity. 18:42, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Sure, there's no problem in having it up there, but it still could be hard to work... But that's just my opinion. 07:50, 14, 05, 2012

Well, the second chart would certainly make it easier to keep track if non-members wanted to do a charart but wouldn't want to join/haven't joined yet. I guess it sounds like a pretty good idea. 10:01, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

Why not? ChanCharm 03:26, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Realism? Redos? Tweaks?
Okay. So as we know, PCA has been trying hard to make/redo/tweak images to look realistic. I understand that realism is important-it gives our veiwers a better sense of what a warriors character could look in real life, or so. There have been many debates and discussion so far about realistic images and non-realistic images. First, traingle tabbies aren't accepted in PCA anymore. Second, wavy tabbies, y-tabbies.

We are working to get realistic tabbies, right?

The only thing is that, there are only so little kinds of tabbies that are natural/realistic. I personally think that we should be able to make different kinds of tabbies (not triangle or Y-tabbies, however), that are personalized so that that tabby represents you're style of tabbies. See, art is not perfect, not bad. As this is something that requires creativity and art, I think that we shouldn't be too serious about these things (this is just my opinion, I'm not demanding for PCA to be like this...), like realism. Also, well, some people just may be better in a certain kind of charart (like tabby tortie, bi-color, ect..), but in a different style they may have more trouble with. All PCA members try their absolute best in my opinion, so if somebody just isn't the best at torties (like me) or so, I think we shouldn't redo their images...But keep them in honor of the artist's hard work for PCA. Redoing images...I'm not sure if that's always the best idea. With tweaking, that's different. You improve the image while still keeping the OA's style so it could still be seen. Also, styles should be artist's choice...right?

I also kinda think that sometimes, we take the realism thing too far...*sighs*

Pretty much, I think that we should perhaps have a page that says what qualifies for a redo. I'd like to have less redoing of images, so we could still honor the OA's image, but it could still be tweaked and still have the OA's style there (or just a similar style). What I think that would qualify for a redo would be: Triangle tabby (full triangle tabby, not counting modified), Y-tabby, and an image that is just...Not done properly or completed (extremely blotchy shading).

Also...Images that may not be realistic fully, but still fine, would just be tweaks.

Sorry if I wasn't clear on all of this, I wasn't concentrating too much...So, Feedback, opinions, and suggestions? 06:48, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think we might have taken this a bit too far too. Although I like realism, in my experience; users who view images don't really pay much attention to realism, just how the character looks pretty much. I'd try to make it as realistic and creative as possible, but we can't help it to redo triangle and y tabbies like Stoney said. Giving it some thought, I think Silverstream's and Jake's tabby style, there probally would be more tweaks, was okay. (Even though I <3333 the newer images too) but eh, that's my thoughts. 09:02, 09, 05, 2012

Yup! All images are epic in they're own way! And yeah, I think that newer users/anons pay more attention to the charart's style, but that doesn't mean that we can't neglect realism. Yeah, I guess we're not taking it too far with the realism, however, I just feel that we should honor the OA's hard work a bit more by redoing less images, but more tweaking. 15:03, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we'be taken the realism thing too far... There's still a lot of chararts that get approved now-a-days that aren't exactly possible in the real world. I personally think the rules (for lack of a better word) for redos should be higher and more focused on things like; triangular tabbies, y-tabbies, not fitting the characters description, overblurred areas, ect. Of course no art can be bad. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But we can't focus so much on what looks good rather then what is realistic. Yes, anons and visitors arent going to be looking for 100% realistic art on the characters pages, but that doesn't mean we need to ignore realism and just keep the chararts that look the best. I don't exactly understand how we can tweak images instead of redoing them if they qualify for a redo. Maybe smudge the stripes? I know when I look at my cat I see pointed stripes, but they're way to smudged within his pelt. So maybe we can start doing things like that instead of redoing them completely? Just my thoughts/opinions. 18:05, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Mhmm. I don't believe that redoing some completely is always right. Yeah, we should redo triangle and y-tabbies, but with the smudge tool, it's actually possible to make the stripes look more realistic than unrealistic. 18:11, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I don't exactly agree with some of the redoing either. I've seen some chararts get redone simply because the artist didn't like it, which is why I suggested the higher stakes *having a bad wording day* for redoing. And the smudging tool could be an easy solution for not redoing so many images. A tabby's pattern is almost never so perfect and defined as we draw them here. 18:49, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, we need to make hit harder to qualify for a redo. I think that, besides realism, there needs to be at least something else that needs redoing, like bad shading or things along those lines, before it can be redone. It's kinda sad when some of these gorgeous chararts are given a total rehaul because they have some marking that can't exist. Breeze whisker  01:54, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think the smudging is a good ground for a tweak. But sometimes we can't help it if we need to redo anothers charart. 08:26, 10, 05, 2012

Now that you mention it, realism doesn't always come first. There are so many beautiful chararts out there that don't deserve to be redone due to unrealistic. As long as they match the description it's okay. If they are a triangle/y tabby, they should be redone, but we seemed to have covered most of those, so it shouldn't be a problem. If it is really unrealistic and it's not either of those tabbies listed above, smudging is a good point. And if it needs to be redone, we could ask the original artist if it's okay to redo their work. ChanCharm 03:37, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Good point, ChanCharm. For redoing, it's maybe most fair for the OA to redo their own image - that way, their style will still be represented in the charart, because they did it. 04:20, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Time limit on Tweak Nominations
I've noticed how some tweak/redo nominations will stay up for a week (or more) without getting their three yay or nay votes. That's really not fair to the nominator having to wait that long for their nomination to be approved - especially when it's missing like one vote. I think that maybe after a certain time period, say 3 days, whichever vote at the time has a majority should be the automatic decision. So it would go on the list if the majority were yay votes. And if they're tied I guess it could just default either way, so long as all tied nominations would default the same way. It'll just keep those nominations from sitting there and the nominator from having to wait so long to know whether they can work on it or not. Breeze whisker  04:54, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

I think this might work. It would stop nominations from sitting there. 06:37, 17, 05, 2012

I agree with this...but the only question is for those that tie. I'd say look at the comments, if any, and that could determine if, but, for now, I think that they should just be approved and be done with it, or, if they really want the image to be redone, they can re-nominate it.

Just wondering about some things
On the cover of Warrior's Return, Graystripe looks blue-gray, or a lighter gray than he usually is, and since Millie got a cover alt (even though I've heard you don't do those...?) I think if that qualifies for an alt, he should too. Also, somewhere in the book, Diesel said he is meant to be a loner, so would that qualify for a loner charart or would he still be considered a kittypet? I'll find the cite later, I know it's there. Also, I don't know much about tweaking, but I think Featherwhisker should be tweaked to have a plumy tail like this since he's cited with one. 02:48, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

For Graystripe, no. We don't have a cite for his shade, and that's probably just the lighting anyways. It doesn't go against his description at all. Diesel, I'm not sure, if you can cite him being a loner he'd probably get one. And Featherwhisker, no, it's not that prominent of a feature like it is on Feathertail or Squirrelflight. So no tweak. 05:53, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, and one more thing: Should Hollyleaf get a rogue charart? I know this sounds farfetched, but think about it: She killed a cat and ran off, leaving her Clan. Sure, she wasn't driven out, but it still gave me something to think about. 12:59, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

She left of her own free will, and lived on her own, not boring the Clans. She doesn't get a rogue image. We've discussed this before.

Okay. The cite for Diesel is page 70 of Warrior's Return. 14:01, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm. Well, he did say that, but what kind of loner are we looking at? He could just be saying that he actually is a loner, someone who does not associate with others, or as in Clan terms. Sorry if that didn't make any sense xD  20:29, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

I guess he might be just someone who associates with the clans. Speaking of loners, should Crookedstar get one? He was away from his Clan for more than a moon, if I remember correctly, and didn't associate with them at all for that time. And when he came back, he was ceartinly big enough to be an apprentice, but was held back because he ran away. I think this is a good reason to become a loner. Can I ask a question? I'm really, really sorry if I'm being a bother with all this, but why don't kits get loner, rogue, and kittypet images? I mean, if they were kittypets when they were kits, we could at least put a collar on them to show that. I think... something needs to signify that they were once a loner or a rogue on the kit if they don't get loner or rogue chararts. Like, Tinycloud. 13:48, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

For crookedstar, this was already discussed when the book came out. He doesn't get one. The whole time he was gone, he considered himself a clan cat, so he never really took on the rank of loner. And for the kits, they don't get loner, rogue, or kittypet images cause the blanks are made for full grown cats. They are kits, so they should get kits images, not full grown cat images. And kittypet kits do get collars unless they were specifically shown or described without them. Also, the ranks are listed in the charcat well enough, you don't need anything else to signify their rank. 14:05, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Some unfinished business on featured chararts
While having a featured charart doesn't necessarily contribute to the end goal of this project, I feel that it can definitely brings inspiration and motivation to the members of the project.

The following are a sketch of the guidelines:


 * Every month, a charart will be voted on by the members of PCA here. The charart with the most votes will be featured on the project page below the news section.
 * Should a tie happen, the charart that was nominated first will be chosen and the other charart be delegated to voting for the next month.
 * A user may nominate his/her art or nominate someone else's art so long as that other person accepts the nomination.
 * Once a user's art has been featured, their art may not be featured or nominated the next two months.
 * Only original art may be featured; and only may canon art be featured.
 * Occasionally, there will be themes that the art nominated should follow.
 * A user may vote on nominated art using voteyay. There will not be any votes against.
 * Should there be a theme for the month voting, it is advised that you vote which piece of art best fits the theme.
 * Users may only vote for one charart. Should a user vote for more, all of their votes will be struck.
 * Users must provide a reason for voting for a nominated charart otherwise risk their vote being struck.
 * Should the use of a negative vote appear, that user may not vote for the next three rounds.
 * Two users will be guides in this activity. These guides will create the themes for the months, put up the charart voted on, overlook the striking of votes, and other problems that may arise. Currently, these two guides are: DJCandyBud and Loonie.

If anyone comes up with some revisions or items to add on, list them below.

Thanks all. 22:32, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

I still don't support this.... I still think it will bring drama, but if the majority agree.... *shrugs* 15:51, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with Paleh, it doesn't benefit the Wiki at all Wiki, and it is likely drama will be started...but if majority rules, then I must follow. 21:03, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

I think that a users art should be nominated only by someone else, and that they're not allowed to nominate themselves, in my opinion. Though I don't fully support this, I'm willing to try this out. 21:16, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

Should there be any drama this part of the project will be cut. But I ask you to be more specific concerning "drama". There should absolutely be no snark-like comments, otherwise the user's vote will be struck, and should any personal attacks arise, punishments will ensue. And actually, I do believe it benefits the wiki. FAs for Project Characters, Books, and World are to demonstrate the hard work the projects have done. For PCA, while not featured on the Home page of the wiki, can demonstrate the new techniques artists have learned, inspire others to attempt to do this style, and overall unite this project through a fun activity. 01:00, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, yes, I was against this originally.... but Atelda here has brought up a few good points. We can try it, if there's drama, we can cut it. It's almost like an FA for the other projects, but it shows off a user's amazing charart instead of a well-written article. :3 02:54, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with this still, and if there is any "drama" we can easily cut it of. (But hopefully there isn't as this is ment to be a fun activity) Atelda's points are good, and if this doesn't benefit the wiki, then neither does FA's. 08:33, 23, 05, 2012

I'm in agreement with this. We could easily end any drama, and Atelda's got really good points there. This is just like an FA for PCA. 13:55, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

I suppose it's worth a shot, you guys are right, it can easily be cut if there are problems. And Teldy, what I meant by drama is more people getting jealous and such because some users chararts are nominated more than others, or some don't get nominated at all, and things like that. Maybe we could make it so there's kinda of a ban on a person entering for a month after they've won? So everyone gets a fair chance? 17:54, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

I'm still against this, but, that's because I'd rather not see users get their hopes up about having a charart featured, and have them shot down because no one wants to vote for them, or they get very few votes, ect. It's bound to cause drama, and although it may look good at first...it just seems like it'll cause issues in the long run, especially if a user gets their images featured every couple months... I'll go along with it if that's what the project wants, but, I myself, am against it.

I understand that PB, PW, and PC get their articles featured, but that's because they're part of the content of the wiki. The art aspect of it isn't a mandatory part, and that's probably why we haven't featured an artist's individual art. Plus, when PC does their nominations, a user's art //is// featured, actually. =P

While a user's art is featured in PC, absolutely no thought is given to the piece of art making that a mute point. And honestly, getting your hopes up and such is the risk you take in participating in this little activity. We can always have a list of names of those users who chose to opt out. Also, I'd like a specification on "issues in the long run"; what issues? Paleh, that sounds like a finee idea, perhaps the user's art may not be allowed to be nominated for three months? 21:56, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Well, for once, having one member's art featured every chance they get. I personally don't want to see the same users have their chararts featured over and over again, once they're able to have their art nominated again. It's also very unfair to the new apprentices/warriors whose skills aren't on the same level as the members who have been here longer. It's a little unfair, and I think once a user's art has been featured once, they should not be allowed to have their art featured again for a good amount of time (longer than three months, that way //everyone// has a chance, not just those who can make pretty art).

A user's art can't be featured, and we can always have the time span longer depending on what gets a community consensus. 6 Months? There are going to be themes, perhaps a theme such as "Apprentice Art" too. 22:07, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe each month, the theme can be "Apprentice Art" with "Neatest Shading", or something. Every couple of months, a rank gets to have their art featured to even it out a bit. 22:09, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

I know a user's personal art can't be featured. I was talking about their work in general, for PCA. I'm saying, some in this project are more talented than others, and I don't think it's very fair if they get featured more because of it.

6 months is plenty. And I'm sure we'll be able to make some times the theme "Apprentice Art". I also suggest not using the word "Best" because that could make users thing that that is the grandest charart of all, and to me that seems a bit too mighty. Also a suggestion, when a charart is featured, we can also list the past OA's so they get some honour too, not just the current version of the charart. :/ We'll see how it goes. 06:33, 24, 05, 2012

I think that every month, a different rank gets to have their work featured. 19:58, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

I like that idea used by Rowan. It would even out the range of skill levels and reduce the amount of nominations that Loonie and DJ would have to go over each month.-- 12:21, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, exactly. That way everyone would have a chance to get their art featured sooner. 18:30, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

That seems like a good idea, that way all ranks are guarrantied to get their art featured. 01:48, 27, 05, 2012

Since no one has been commenting lately on this... Alright; is everyone fine with the guidelines that were proposed on this discussion before the vote is to be put up? If anyone has objections, please state them. 21:41, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Brightheart?
I was wondering, wouldn't Brightheart get an alt. for mistakenly said for being Briarlight? That seems like a pretty dramatic change of description, so I was just thinking. x)  17:22, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

That wouldn't qualify. Alts would be for mistakes in color or shape, not name. That is just trivia. ~Regifloat222 Riverstar, Leader of the Thunder Snipes! 17:27, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I think Regi's right...but...what was the context in which she was said to be Briarlight?

Alright. It said that Briarlight was mistaken to be Brightheart, but I thought it could go either way. 17:44, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

It could...but I //think// it depends on how it was used. Something as simple as a name switch in general terms... I'd say no...but if Brightheart was specifically described as Briarlight, with the broken spine and all (and vise versa, since we all know that's virtually impossible), then I'd say yes.

Well she's said to have dragged herself across the clearing. But normally no, a mistaken name wouldn't get an alt. It's just a name, not description. For this case I'm not sure, cause she was described with a broken spine.... 22:57, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

We normally wouldn't do this... but since she was described like that... I'd probably say yes, but I'm unsure. 02:28, 27, 05, 2012

Since she was described with the broken spine, I believe she should get one. 03:29, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think she needs one. That's a huge change from before, and it's obviously just a typo. And even then, "dragged" is pretty vague. It could mean she was just moving slowly, or even she got down on her belly and scooted her way across the clearing for no apparent reason, not just that her spine was broken. Breeze whisker  04:14, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Breeze. If she was said to look exactly like Briarlight then she should get one, but that's a typo. Where's your cite for this? 11:28, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

I (insert tweak here), and that's all I'm doing
I've noticed a lot of artists putting this such comment when they tweak the shading, add scars, etc., and then when someone asks them to do something unrelated to the image they refuse. But why not just do everything that needs to be done while the images is up? If it's done right away, that same image won't have to be nominated again for something that could've been fixed weeks ago. So all I'm suggesting is that tweakers should do all that's asked of them, not just what's laid out in the nomination.

Please note that this isn't directed at anyone in particular, I've just been noticing it a lot. 17:44, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

I think it depends on the tweak. However, if something's that bad, an artist should have already noticed it and did their best to fix it. It says in the guidelines that it's artist's choice whether or not to fix according to someone's suggestion...and that's basically what this is. xD

I agree with Oblivion. When people say things like 'I'm only tweaking the shading' or something along those lines and something else, like the earpink, is brought up it gives them the choice to totally ignore the suggestion, yes they have the choice to do whatever they want, but why not just get it done? I'm not really sure how that came out, but I'm not refering to anyone personally its just an example. 19:41, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, I think if the artist sees something wrong when they're tweaking the image, they'll fix it (I've done that sometimes). When nominating images for tweaking, people should list all the problems of the image that need fixing, and if the nominator doesn't cover all the problems, then somebody could just comment on the nomination if there's something else that needs tweaking. 21:01, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

I think that the artist should fix anything that was listed to be fixed. Before the nomination passes, users should comment if the nominator didn't add that flaw in. 21:24, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. It sort of bugs me when there is something else to tweak and the artist refuses to do it. Also if there is other issues the artist can see then they'd probably fix it, and you can't really list everything (mainly in the Approved Tweaks section) that needs to be tweaked. 06:23, 28, 05, 2012

I could have sworn there was a conversation about this before...e.e But yeah, if it needs tweaking, why not do it and prevent the inage from having to be nominated over and over again? It saves time and space on the tweak page. Skt Like a baws  10:30, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

While I semi-agree that users should tweak more than they're originally asked when asked once the image is up, I feel like users commenting must also keep in mind that the image was passed through the project via a 'CBA' and an approval. "Define the earpink", "Blur the earpink"", etc., sorry but all of a sudden, the earpink is wrong now when a few days/months ago, it was perfectly fine. I know techniques change all the time as well as opinions, but honestly? Users should keep in mind that tweaked art has already gone through the project, and the project has approved it. -my two cents- 21:14, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

If the earpink is "off" then it should be listed in the reasons for tweaking. I kinda agree with you Teldy, it's sort of like the guideline how an image can't be nominated just for the earpink. But if it is off and wasn't listed, I guess it depends on what needs fixing and how badly. 09:36, 04, 06, 2012

Senior Warriors....
Listen. I know you guys work hard. I know you all think I have no right to say this, but there are some things I've noticed that you could stop doing, and things you could pick back up on. Ivyheart hasn't edited since the 15. She comes on from time to time, but her visits are few and far between. And then, there's the drama when a senior warrior moves his/herself down to Warrior rank because of who-knows-what! I mean, guys, I understand if it's something in your life, but just for the heck of it? I mean, there are users out there who would love to be SWs, and you guys... I just feel like they're not getting what they deserve when you do that. Show them that even though your nominations get lots of supporting votes, you don't "feel like it" and resign. I've seen it, believe me. Then, there's another thing. If someone's getting nominated for SW, and they don't have exceptional chararts, but there's a charart that gets declined that's tabby pattern or dual colored or something they haven't worked on... let them have it! You guys have tons of images approved... which is why I don't like it when I see "it's really bad" or something next to a charart you post. I have seen that, not many times, but occasionally, someone writes something that indicates they don't particularly care for a charart they make. Sometimes even an SW. Some of you don't participate on the talk as much as you could. This is all I'm writing for now; please take this into consideration and don't kill me for what I've written. And it's not all of you. But some of you are really... getting to the point where I'd like to say something. Regards, 21:08, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Skills have almost nothing to do with who gets nominated to be a senior warrior, Ivy. You need to have other qualities as well, like level-headedness, leadership skills, ect. It's first come, first serve on images, regardless of how many someone has. =.=

As for them "not feeling like it", oh well. If they choose to resign, it's their choice. Don't you dare hold that against them. I know Atelda resigned from her lead position because she doesn't contribute as much to PCA as she does her other projects. As for Ivyheart, she informed us that she wouldn't be around, so don't you even think of holding that against her. If we were going to play that game, I'd have lost my lead spot back in December when I had to leave because I was relocating to a trailer. I couldn't get on at all, and I retained my lead spot; as will Ivyheart when she returns. >.>

It wasn't very "first come first serve" when I'd reserved Stoatpaw. 21:17, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Because someone specifically mentioned she wanted the image, and five seconds later, you had it reserved. If you ask me, you were waiting to snipe someone's reservation. Also, if you've got something to say, say it. Don't use small text, where people have to squint to read it. =.=;;

Technically, she hadn't reserved it yet. She just /wanted/ it. 21:23, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if she reserved it or not. Have you ever heard of a "gentleman's agreement", Ivy? When someone mentions they'd like to work on a particular character, we usually honor that request. Or, at least some of us do.

However, she had stated that she wanted it, which is a claim if I've ever seen one. If we say that isn't a claim to the image, then people can't say on the nominations page that they want to reserve a particular tweak. Our whole system would backfire. It's just one charart. Not that big of a deal, and no reason to call out others for it. (edit conflicts x.x) 21:27, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Well, okay, I give up. You're right; I'm sooo rude because of what I /think/. I used to be a little scared of the senior warriors, to tell you the truth. 21:29, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Where did we say you were rude? Each member of PCA has a right to an opinion. However, when you start calling out members like that, we're going to defend them. Example are fine, but not when you directly use another member's name. That other user hadn't had a chance to reserve it, because I believe she either was on her cell phone/iPod/something or other, or the wiki was lagging. I'm not entirely sure.

Okay, for some of us senior warriors; Our activity has dropped this month, including mine. But you know why? Because of life, I know for many, especially because of school...I understand that we have to do our jobs, but could some sympathy be shown? I know myself, that I've got a lot to do, and I can't even keep up with real life now, so how am I supposed to keep up with the wiki at the same time? In fact, if you feel that some of us haven't been doing right, then set up a forum of demotion. Go ahead; it's your opinion, you can put up a forum, and nobody should really be mad...But I was stating my part earlier in my comment.^^ I think being a SW is not about being good at chararts or being the most active; it's about having open-mindedness, being able to accept that you've made a mistake, honesty, and other important leadership qualities. It's good that you've been honest with PCA though, but sometimes SW can't be on all the time...And btw, when an image gets declined, you can't always expect to get it...I don't usually take over images, nor do I care if I get it or not. To become a SW, you need more than just being active... =) 23:09, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

I appreciate that you care for the wellness of the project but not everyone can be active. For most of us, school is ending and we have less time with finals. Nothing is really going on right now that would require all of the SW's to be active. It's not like we run a hospital here, there's no dire need to get something done right away. As for SW's stepping down, their choice must be respected, as they know them self and their capabilities better than anyone else. Nothing more said. SW's don't have to have exceptional chararts, but they have to be open enough with their styles in order to help others make natural patterns. No one thinks you're rude in your statements. Like Stone said, being a SW isn't just about being active, that's not true for any memeber, it's about being open minded and creative and expressing one's self. wow am I cheesy e.e 01:20 Tue May 29

Okay everyone needs to chill, look she got it from Cloudy and Rainy there is no need to push on the subject. I've noticed Ivyshell is a semi-new user, so she might not get the whole project thing yet (I'm not trying to attack you Ivy, I'm just saying), cut her some slack. I'm not saying let her do anything she wants so don't take it that way either, just let one or two people handle it (Cloudy is very capable). This is how fights get started, trust me I've seen it before. (I think it happened to me before :) ) So everyone calm down, take a deep breath, and relax. 02:34, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Chill? Honestly, when something like this comes up, it's important. Ivyshell does have a point in this, as even though life usually gets in the way of us...Sometimes, it isn't acceptable. I'm sorry Ivyheart...But you really haven't been active for quite a long period of time now. I honestly think that even if you know that you're going to be inactive for a long time, and inform the project, it isn't really nice if you know you're not going to be inactive, and you still hold your SW rank. If someone knows that they're going to be inactive, the responsible thing to do is self-demote yourself, instead of expecting to always have that rank...Wild, I don't think that this discussion should be left alone. It should be treated like a discussion, not like some topic where a user just isn't understanding something. Ivyshell understands quite well in my opinion, and she was honest enough with the project to put up an actually serious matter. She has a good point in this. Plus, if only two users handled a discussion...that isn't really right in a project. The project discusses together, and has every right to; that's why we don't do "lead" meetings anymore because they left out others who may have been newer, but still have excellent points of view and ideas. If I remember well, it has been said that SW's who haven't been active as much as they should at least be (pretty much semi-active, at least...), that there will be discussions about that. Honestly, even if we know or not that a user is going to be inactive, the user should think about it and give up the rank instead of hold it without doing much...Also, Ivyshell, as I said, it would be maybe a better idea to hold a forum for discussing this...? Ivyshell's post was not posted without a meaning or to disrespect anyone. It was posted with a good point and meaning, and when a user feels that something is not well in the project, it should be taken care of so the project can be more enjoyable for everyone. It's really good that you're trying to decrease the chance of a fight here, but I think that others should be able to post on this too. ;) But of course, what you said should be taken very seriously; to be relaxed, and to take deep breaths if you're annoyed. =)

I also give my apologies to anyone if I've been blunt or if I haven't understood something well; as I can tend to act like that. 05:46, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Both Ivyshell and Stoney have points. Every SW works hard for their posistion, and they all deserve it. And it isn't all about skill. I have noticed this slightly a bit too. Some SW's, including me at times, have been forgetting things. Minor things, such as forgetting to archive a tweak nomination, or adding an approved charart to the character pixels on its page. If those little things can be improved, then I'm sure we'll be the best team of SW's that can be. ;)

As for Ivyheart, (not sure why she left x|) if it was an unexpected inactiveness, like Cloudy's situation, then there should be exeptions. (We've had this discussion before) If it was just a break, then her inactivity should be treated with the manners stated in the guidelines. At current, for SW's that is a month. 06:31, 29, 05, 2012

The thing is...I'm sorry, but Ivy comes on maybe once or twice a month; thus keeping her position... But that's still not right. A SW needs to be at least semi-active. 20:58, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Meh...
I'm sorry Paleh ;n; I just can't commit myself to the Wiki anymore with all this inner turmoil and depression and such so... I'm leaving PCA... And the Wiki *hides* I'm really sorry, and I know I'm going to get killed on Skype(not that I already haven't >.>) but I just....*sigh* It's a lot to explain... I might visit sometimes, but the odds are low until this depression passes ;/ So goodbye for now~ I might join in the future, but until then, may StarClan light your path always, 00:31, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Fallow...;n; I understand, but it's sad to see you goooo. ;n; 00:32, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Y U LEAVE WIKI? >:|

D'8 *joins Cloudy* Yes, Y U LEAVE?! *sniff* Visit as much as you can! ಥ_ಥ May StarClan light your path, and that we see you in the future. :')  00:40, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu D'8 U MUST NOT LEAVE US. Hope you can rejoin soon, until then, good luck in life! <3 05:55, 31, 05, 2012

NO. POUNCEY. DON'T GOOOOO Dx We'll miss you so much. *clings* 14:22, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Oi, Pouncy Dx I'm going to miss you </3 19:37, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

May I join please?
I`d like to join the project,because I really love Warriors and I find myself a pretty good artist--Except when it comes to shading,someone give me some tips with that :3?

Please note that sometimes,depending on the character,I can be a little rocky.After all,all I use is the Paint tool in Windows.Like,if you go into Start,All programs,then accessories.The paint tab is mainly what I use. :P

Yeah,if you see anything that looks...bleh,then just tell me.Okie?Okie.

Snowstarrr 21:19, May 31, 2012 (UTC)Snowstarr OutSnowstarrr 21:19, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

P.S. If anyone has any other paint program,please tell meeeeee >.<

Great! I'll add you in now. Please look over guidelines. Look at the apprentice tutorials and the mentor program if you want any extra help. Welcome to PCA! 05:40 Sat Jun 2

Umg thank you SO much!!!I`m proud to join this project... *Huggles* :D --Snowstarrr 18:53, June 2, 2012 (UTC)SnowstarrrOut--Snowstarrr 18:53, June 2, 2012 (UTC) Btw,I realize this is a fail signature...haven`t figured that out yet. :P

Get your best chararts featured in an ad for the site!
Hey guys!

A few of you may know that I'm studying marketing at college. And for those of you that don't... well, I am.

Anyway, I decided that, as practice, I'd like to make an ad for Warriors Wiki to post on Youtube. I've already gotten general permission from Kit to do so, since it's for educational purposes and fair use is covered by that. But, as a former member of PCA, I know that I'd personally prefer to be the one to give permission for the use of my chararts in any place outside the wiki, so here I offer you guys the chance to grant that permission.

So please, below here, if you're willing to do so, list off your best chararts. I'm looking for chararts of multiple ranks. It may be that not every charart can be used, but then again my script isn't finished yet, so they actually might.

Note that a few of these will be animated for the video.

Also, there are a few I'm looking to use specifically, so please check here to see if yours is listed (I may add more later as my script for the video gets finished):

Firestar's leader image.

Scourge's rogue image.

Leopardstar's leader image.

Squirrelflight's warrior image.

Heavystep's elder image.

That's all for now.

Also, I'm looking for some people to record a few lines for the video. If you're able to do so (you have a decent microphone, basically), shoot me a message on my talk page.

Peace out! 21:36, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds interesting and I'd love to promo the site. Would you consider my Brightheart chararts, Russetfur's apprentice and rogue, Brambleberry's MCA, and Brokenstar's elder and rogue? 21:43, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Certainly! Thanks for the offer. 21:49, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

This sounds awesome! Would you consider my redo of Cody's kittypet image and my image of Hollyleaf as a loner? 21:54, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

You may use Firestar's leader and Squirrelflight's warrior. No problem. If you want, you could use Fleck's loner, Dapplenose's MC or warrior, Duke's kittypet, Mothwhisker, and actually, any of my others you feel might be better. Those are just personal favorites. 22:08, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

This seems wonderful, Shelly. Could you perhaps consider having my image of Onion's rogue, and/or my image of Onestar's alternate leader image? I also might volunteer to audition for a line in the video (Maybe)... 23:02, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Could you consider my Leafpool charart(s) and/or Twist's rogue? I'm fine with any of mine being used, but those few are my favorites<3 03:39, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds awesome, Shelly! Any of mine would be fine, but my personal favourites are Floss (Lo), Tigerheart (Ki/A), Sasha (Ro), and Sharpclaw (Ro). Probably seems like a lot, but isn't it good that I'm starting to actually like my chararts now?! Wow 8O  11:45, 01, 06, 2012 Sounds fun! Would you consider Foxleap's app., Piketooth's warrior, (wait last tweak wasn't by me so nevermind) Fallen Leaves to-be, or Petalnose's kittypet. 12:48, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Eh, would you consider any of Birchfall's or Mothpelt's? Lol <font face="Arial" size="1" color="Blue" >Skt Like a baws  13:14, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Can you consider Snake's kit image? The only image I've done, that I'm fond of *Noms Snake* Maple♥  pool  Mischief brewing 19:09, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Awesome idea, Shelly, it sounds pretty fun =3 I may try out to do a line... But I hate my voice xD Do you think you could put up either Poppydawns elder or Sharpclaws warrior image? Can't wait too see it! 19:39, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Could you put Plumwillow's and Berrynose's alt apprentices there? I'm sure that those are my best :3 05:18, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Would you also consider Sol's brown tabby alt rogue? :3 It's one of my personal best. Tawnypelt's apprentice would also be great~ 15:06, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

I love this idea! 8D Yes, you're more than welcome to use Scourge's rogue <3 And maybe you could consider using Pinestar's kittypet, Ivytail (SC)'s queen, Squirrelflight's deputy, or Hawkfrost's rogue/warrior/deputy? 15:22, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Good idea. Could you maybe consider Runningbrook's warrior or Sorreltail's warrior? 21:43, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Nevermind, Shelly, Snake is gonna be re-done to match, so... Maple♥ pool  Mischief brewing 21:54, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Neat idea, Shelly. :D You're plenty welcome to use Heavystep's elder, and maybe check out Hazelstar's leader or one of Patchpelt's. Breeze  whisker  03:32, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Nice idea! You can use Heathetail's second alt (gray one) or Shrewtooth's rogue, if you'd like 16:16, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Possible loners
Just an idea here. =P Could the cats who made the journey to the Sun-Drown-Place be considered loners? They just disappeared without their Clanmates' knowledge, and their Clanmates may not have considered them part of their respective Clans anymore. Also when they returned, cats were rather hostile and/or suspicious of them. (Ferncloud, Owlpaw, etc.) I know they themselves would have still thought themselves as part of their Clans, but I don't think the other cats did.

Just puuting that out there. C: -flies away- <font face="Arial" size="1" color="Blue" >Skt Like a baws 00:32, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm fifty fifty on this. I would say no, because it was a StarClan prophecy that led them there, but they /did/ leave their Clans and they returned. 00:48, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I think not, personally. But this question should go to PC, not PCA. 01:07, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but if they're loner's, Crookedstar was one. 01:34, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Nope for the same reasons I gave against Crookedstar  03:30, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, no. <span style="">11:48, 01, 06, 2012

You people realize that Crookedstar was a loner, right? It's been listed on his profile for a while. Only reason he doesn't get a charart was because he was still Crookedkit at the time (even tho he was over nine moons old at the time and by PCA's standards he should have gotten a loner image).

Crookedstar was a loner because he left his Clan and choose to stay away, living with other loners, despite having no reason to do so besides his own depression. The traveling cats left for the sakes of their Clans with every intention to return. Being apart from your Clan doesn't automatically mean you've left your Clan.

And, again, this decision is the jurisdiction of PC. PCA deals in images, not designation of ranks. 15:56, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

We had the discussion before that Crookedstar was not a loner. Multiple times. He left his Clan to go to the moonstone. He wasn't running away. He did stay with other loners for a while, but I believe that was to help with the kits, and he always considered himself a clan cat. We already decided he wasn't a loner. Hence why the image was declined. 18:31, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

He stayed with the loners even when he gave up trying to go to the Moonstone. And, again, it's not for PCA to decide. 18:35, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

It's not just the jurisdiction of PC. This also follows under PCA's because of the guidelines we have for deciding who gets a loner charart and who doesn't. =.=;;;

Personally, I think he shouldn't get one. Despite the fact he //did// leave his Clan, he called himself a Clan cat the entire time, and it wasn't just because of his "depression". He also helped out a lot with the kits. He intended to return to RiverClan, although he didn't know when he should. I don't think he should get an image, imho. He was never truly a loner.

Look here. More reasons he shouldn't be listed as a loner. Specifically Misty's. It really does prove he wasn't a loner at the time. He may have been on the verge of being one, but he wasn't. 18:43, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I don't believe the Sun-Drown Place cats could get them, since they only went a journey and were still part of the Clan. If they would get one, then that would be like saying Firestar would get one when he went to go rebuild SkyClan. 19:43, June 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * For the record, it is PC's purview to decide what ranks a cat has held. Not PCAs. You guys provide art. Decisions the effect the contents of articles (such as deciding that a cat was, in fact, a loner at one time) is not a part of what you do. If you run into issues like this they should be forwarded to PC for decisions. You should not be making any decisions about character sheet content, only illustrating the decisions of PC. If you have questions about those decisions, those questions must be resolved by PC. This consistent overstepping of the boundaries of your project parameters (which I've seen happen more than once) is part of why people have an inflated idea of what PCA is for. If it's not making art (or directly related to making art) it is not your job as a project.
 * Refer this issue to Project Characters and let them do their job. 19:47, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Joining
Can I join?

<font color="skyBlue" style="background:Blue">☆ Icewhisker☆Cats of the Stars 00:30, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

I'll add you in now. Please look over guidelines. Look at the apprentice tutorials and the mentor program if you want any extra help. Welcome to PCA! 05:39 Sat Jun 2

Snake and Ice
..Why don't they have kit images? Am I missing something? (I didn't want to nominate them for a redo if they don't get them) 15:24, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

I think they were removed because of the description thing. I added them back because they should have them. 16:43 Sat Jun 2

Will they be re-done, or tweaked? Ethier way, I call doing Snake's kit image, I was fond of it, my first image <3 Maple♥  pool  Mischief brewing 16:47, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

It needs to be nominated, and it's first come, first serve, Maple. =.=;; 16:50, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Thick Fur vs. Long Fur
Sorry if this is off topic, but I honestly don't understand why every cat mentioned as thick-furred gets a long-haired image. Thick fur has nothing to do with the length of the fur. Also, why do some cats (i.e. Silverstream, Brightheart, Hawkfrost) have long-haired images if never mentioned as long-haired? LiL Luv Chocolate 14:59, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Firestar anyone? He's got thick fur, but a shorthaired charart. We know thick furred =/= longhaired. As for the others, fur length is artist's choice. And all RiverClan cats get long hair. 15:05, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

I have a perfect real-world example for you. I have a short-haired cat, there is no long hair on his body. However, when I groom him, I get more fur off of him than my long haired cat, and George is not a balding cat. That is thick fur. Hickory, the long-haired, just has long fur. That's the difference. Also I tried making him long-haired but they wouldn't let me... 17:41, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Don't repeat your own discussions. You brought this up before and we responded the same as we are now. Just look through the archives if you didn't see our answer. But anyways, once again, think-furred is not the same as long furred. And we don't treat it as such. I don't know what made you think we do, but we have quite a few examples that we don't. Firestar, Gorsepaw, Mousefur, etc. And unless fur length is mentioned, it's artists choice, except for windclan and riverclan cats. RiverClan are longhaired unless specified otherwise, and Windclan are short. 68.104.94.107 19:44, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Whoops, keep forgetting I'm not automatically logged in on this computer. 19:46, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Silverstream
I noticed that Silverstream's alt. image from CotC shows her as a queen, but in the drawing in the book she's shown as a warrior. (She doesn't look chubby enough to be pregnant.) Should the image be changed to a warrior? Also, why does her image show her as long-haired? In the manga and in CotC her fur looks quite short. Also, she was never mentioned as long-haired. LiL Luv Chocolate 15:02, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Queens aren't just pregnant. They're also queens for the six moons after their kits are born (I know this doesn't apply for Silverstream, but bear with me). She also died as a queen, so that's what her image will be. Her image is longhaired because all RiverClan cats have been changed to longhaired because of their dense fur used in swimming. 15:04, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Then why doesn't Mistystar have a long-haired image? Her mom was from TC, but her dad was from RC. LiL Luv Chocolate 15:09, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

She was called sleek. Besides, even though she's half-RiverClan doesn't mean she has to be longhaired. Again, it's artist's choice. 15:30, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

A Message from Quail, Your Lost Member
Hey guys, its Quail,

I know I poofed for a couple months, but now I'm back. Sorry I was gone so long. I've been busy on this end of year project for school which takes up about 50% of my grade in Science, and a bunch of other projects as well. I would still like to be a part of charart, commenting on tweaks and stuff, but I don't think I'll be able to create chararts as much as I used too. Like in Warriors, every cat comes to a point where they start to slow down.

That doesn't mean I won't make chararts though. I'll see what I can do when Yellowfang's Secret comes around....I've known this wiki for a couple years now, I have no intention of leaving. Meow.

20:50, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Charart approval
It says in her description that she is a gray tabby.

It might be totally wrong, and I am very sorry if it is.

She...already, has a image?..This one:  Maple♥  pool  Mischief brewing Sirius lover 10:35, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

First of all, this isn't where you post chararts. Go to the approval page for that. Second of all Greeneyes already has an image, as maple said already, and doesn't need one. Third, if you were actually posting this for approval properly, you need to name it right, meaning Greeneyes.deputy.png. Look over the guidelines, and next time please check if a character already has an image before posting. 20:03, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

um hai
Well.

Someone's going to shoot me for this.

I'm leaving PCA.

Life has gotten in the way, and I'm going to take a short break from the wiki as well.

Byee~

-flies away-

jack never let go,   diane ❤''' 00:45, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Ahh Nuuu!! Baby come back~ You can blame it all on me~ lol XD See ya around Jelo! Will miss ya tons <3 01:04 Tue Jun 5