Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Grey and Silver+orange and pale/dark ginger
K I hope I don't sound random but isn't grey just a partial of silver? Simultaneously isn't Orange just a partial of dark/pale ginger? I dunno I just saw some cats had alts like this and decided to bring this up 03:56, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

Gray and silver are different. Silver tabbies can only have black stripes, and gray is just like a brown tabby- the stripes can be a darker version of the base. Silver-gray is a specific shade, however. But if they're just called a silver tabby, then it's different from a gray tabby. idk about orange and dark/pale ginger, though. I always thought ginger was more red, and orange was..well, orange.

Just to say, I just looked up ginger, it says "a reddish yellow or orange brown color" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 04:07, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

grey and silver are definitely different, but even if you google orange cat, you get so many different varieties of ginger cats. always seemed redundant to me to have alts for it. 04:10, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

For me I thought ginger was more yellow than orange >.> 03:48, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

Silver and gray are different, but Gray-silver is different too, like golden and brown is different, but so is golden-brown. Didn't one of the Erin's say that they see ginger as a orange colour? Someone posted a link about it here. 08:53, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Ginger = reddish yellow/orangey-brown. 00:20, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

Leader blanks for non-clan leaders
I've been reading through the archives, and I've noticed this topic has been brought up many times, but has kept being ignored. So I'd like to bring this up again.

Basically, I think Furled Bracken, Stone Song and Jingo should get leader blanks, as they were specifically called leaders, especially Furled Bracken and Stone Song. I know the leader blanks are only for clan cats, but we can easily allow them to be used on non clan leaders.

Thoughts? 09:19, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

No. While it seems plausible to give them leader blanks since they /were/ technically leaders, they never recieved nine lives or a leader name from starclan. It could also confuse anons and guests to the wiki browsing through the pages to see a rogue/loner with a clan leader image. Its unnecessary since theres only a handful of cats who'd need it, and even if they are the leader figure to some cats, they're /still/ rogues and loners. Its 5am, so forgive me if im not making any sense.. x.x 09:11, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

I'm neither agreeing or diagreeing, just poking in to say that the amount doesn't matter. after all, there's only 3 stoneteller blanks in use and likely won't go above 5 if that ever changes. 09:14, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

We've already said no multiple times. I don't understand why this keeps being brought up- it seems like an excuse for more images and each time we've come to the consensus that they do not get leader images- majority rules.

From what I've seen, it keep getting ignored whenever it has been brought up ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but okay. I only brought it up because I thought it was unfinished topic. 11:44, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

It's not unfinished- we've already said multiple times (going back long before most of the active users joined) that they don't get leader images, since the leader blanks are for those who've been recognized as leaders by StarClan, with their names, their nine lives, who've actually been leader for a short time (Brightwhisker's case), ect. Jingo, Furled Bracken, and Stone Song do not meet the qualifications to obtain a leader image. It doesn't get ignored- not getting the answer you want isn't ignoring a topic. The discussions are archived' because they sit there with no comments, thus ending the debate.

This seems quite ignored to me, nobody responded to Jayie after they posted their comment (except for Stealth, who wasn't replied to too) so I thought I'd bring it up again, to see what you all think. And it's not and excuse to make more chararts- suggesting a new idea isn't really an excuse, Imho. So if it's disagreed that they would get images then I'm cool with that. 12:46, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

Did Graywing get his nine lives? 0.0 02:02, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

If it goes without comments, I archive it. That's considered finished, since no one else wanted to continue the discussion. We also have a citation for Graywing, Bramble, hence why he has a leader image. The citation for that comes long before Dawn of the Clans. Hell, I think that was a Secrets of the Clans cite, which has probably been around longer than I've been on the wiki...

I think they get blanks, but not Clan Leader blanks. Maybe new ones need to be made or something. Please don't say I'm trying to make art to do, because I'm not like that. There's plenty of art to do anyway. 08:51, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, but I'm against it. They are basically loners/rogues. 00:26, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

Cats of the Park
Right, PC has made it that Cats of the Park is it's own rank. I think now it's for PCA to decide about the charart. Do we make a new one? Use the loner/rogue blank? I also think that giving the loner blank a little tweak, (like the Clan leader and healer blanks or something) is not a bad idea either. 05:16, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Loner 07:38, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

I think loner would be more appropriate than rogue 12:50, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

I agree that a loner should be used, but maybe we could do a small edit so it's noticeable that it's from the CotP. 12:53, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

For some reason I keep on thinking about giving them ribbons. I agree with that, but what should we edit? Maybe make their tail higher? Or make all four of their paws on the ground?? 13:18, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Possibly - or the neck could be raised, so that the cat is looking up. 19:02, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

We should definitely use the loner blank. And I like Sorrel's idea of having the cat looking up. 20:57, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Hmm. Maybe we can tweak the loner a bit to look like they are meditating a bit. Maybe legs a little straighter and on the ground like Bramblesnow's idea, or Sorreltail's idea where they are looking up. (with eyes closed?? So they actually look in meditation?) 23:02, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Personally, i like Sorrel's idea. Perhaps we could just have the cats looking up with all their paws on the ground? I don't know, it seems to diferintiate it a little more. Im up for whatever ya'll decide to do, though. 23:31, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, the cats looking up is a good idea, however is it possible for us to confuse the loner blanks and the modified versions? 0:12 Fri Apr 17

If they aren't loners, actually, they shouldn't get loner blanks, in my opinion. 00:20, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

True. I thought of that before, that they do live together (aka not alone), but Ravenpaw, Barley and Jingo's group all used the loner blank as well. Anyway, if the loner's heads are raised with four paws on the ground, that'll just be exactly like the to-be blank. 00:55, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

Why tweak the loners? They aren't loners. Also, if we tweak the loners we would need Mounty's permission, which she isn't active anymore. 02:36, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, that would be difficult if the OA isn't around. Maybe a new blank is a better way, because they are not really "alone" and certaintly not rogues. 04:11, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

As I said, Jingo's group got loner blanks too, so I think it's kinda... yea. But then I don't think we should stop things just because a user is no longer active - I'm not trying to offense anyone, but that's true. 08:38, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

We need the OA's permission to tweak a blank- I think that's the rule. And the loner blank would be used on loners, which they aren't 11:46, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

You don't need to OA's permission to tweak a blank. It's the same ruling for PCA images- once they're posted to PCA's pages, they belong to PCA, letting us do with them as we wish. Otherwise, we'd need to ask permission to tweak for shorter tails, ripped ears, ect. If they can be tweaked, then do so. I can tell you though that Jenrock isn't really going to care and she doesn't have any of the files she had when she was active here.

I'm against tweaking the loner blank for the cats of the parks, but that's just me. 06:26, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

I think we should, the CotP remind me of BloodClan in the way they are being presented as a group. (if that makes any sense. Probably not) Anyway, I was thinking we could modify the Loner blank by moving the legs so it looks like they are standing instead of walking, moving the lifted paw up higher, having them look up, and maybe changing the position of the tail just for kicks. 15:30, May 8, 2015 (UTC)

Stripes on Brown Cats
I think on all the solid brown cats, they should be tabbies. Unless they are Havana Browns, which they are probably not, because Clan cats are mixed breeds. Most mixed breed brown cats are tabbies, and the same goes for gray cats. Unless, like Briarlight, they are said as solid brown or grays or any other colors, those should be tabbies. So, thoughts? 16:06, May 17, 2015 (UTC)

The series is unrealistic and unless they're specifically called tabbies, I don't think we should make them tabbies. It's too much unnecessary tweaking.

I agree with Snowman, honestly. It's unnecessary. 16:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC)

^ Storm  &#9835;  18:04, May 17, 2015 (UTC)

I agree too. 21:50, May 17, 2015 (UTC)

Me, too. Pretty much every cat has tabby markings of some form except for, like, pure black and white cats. We'd have to tweak a great number of the chararts on the wiki, which would be a lot of unnecessary tweaking. Sorry. 22:48, May 17, 2015 (UTC)

I actually think it should be made optional if the artist decides to add stripes or not if it isn't specified that they are solid. 01:32, May 22, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, and if we make it optional, it'll turn mandatory. Seriously, unless they're called a tabby, please don't make them a tabby.

Agreeing with others - it's unnessary and frankly I feel like it's just another way for people to rack up more tweaks. At most let's just leave it optional for future chararts. 02:01, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Snow. If they aren't described as a tabby, we shouldn't be making them a tabby, imho. This project isn't really about realism, it's about making art to fit the description of the characters, right? 00:52, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

The project's mission statement is to make art for each and every cat in the Warriors series that we have descriptions for. It is not to implement hyper-realism in our chararts. This seems like another way to claim more images for tweaking, which everyone seems to really like doing nowadays. Unless the Erins say "our brown cats are tabbies", then I really don't think we should even be thinking of doing it- we're losing the unrealistic feel that Warriors has because all people want to do is tweak images so they have a claim to them.

I just saw a couple solid brown wild cats a few months ago. 10:43, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

no, i dont think we should put stripes on them, considering how goddamn many there are. not to mention the erins probably DO imagine them solid brown, and its just excuses to tweak at this point. if youre gonna point oyut the ginger cats should be solid im gonna stop them there, because its far to late to change that either. 12:40, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Rheumy-eyed Cats
I looked up what Rheumy eyes mean, it means the eyes are full of rheum. Rheum is a sort of liquid discharge that is around the eyes, and can dry into flakes. a picture shows how significant it affects a cat's looks. I should know as my own cat has it. It also looks like it makes the skin around the eyes a bit more visible too.

The cats that have rheumy eyes so far are Starlingfeather, Purdy and Runningnose, so I don't think it would be a hard to tweak them to have the rheumy eyes. 06:28, May 22, 2015 (UTC)

Right. 07:21, May 22, 2015 (UTC)

i wouldnt be hugely against it, although two of those 3 cats are now dead and confirmed in starclan, so i dont know if thatd affect it. (either way im gonna want all my images lmao) 12:35, May 22, 2015 (UTC)

I'd suggest leaving the StarClan images, since we're not sure. We could just tweak the ranks they were stated to have the eyes in (if it's a medical problem? I'm not sure, because if it's a permanent thing they live with they'd get it on all their living ranks) 10:47, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

It's both. Cats can be born with it or develop it. I think the Erin's associate it with age though, so probably not StarClan images. 22:37, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

Leaving
Hi guys. I've been really inactive right now, and it's because of life. There have been sudden changes, and those changes are affecting me in a way I can't be active here anymore. It's too much. Who knows, maybe life will stop hitting me and I might come back and stop being inactive. For now, I guess I will revoke my SW status. It's been great with y'all. For now, I guess this is goodbye. 00:40, May 23, 2015 (UTC)

You're leaving D: we'll miss you. Thanks for your dedication to PCA. I hope your life goes well. 02:46, May 23, 2015 (UTC)

OMG ;_________________________; I wish you the best luck in life. Goodbye, Tiger, you've been a great friend. D: Thank you for your dedication to PCA. 02:48, May 23, 2015 (UTC)

So sorry o see you go. I hope you can get on with life, and maybe return one day. 03:37, May 23, 2015 (UTC)

I hope you come back!!! I know you've been a nice and patient SW although I don't know you that much. 10:45, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

"It's fine"
Okay, now I've had about more than enough of the "it's fine" excuse. As someone who has been in this project longer than all active members, save for Scarletwind, I have never seen the project get this bad. The "it's fine" excuse is just a way of getting out of doing a critique, and it needs to stop. And I do mean now. Consider this an official warning, PCA.

If I continue to see this excuse in excess, I can and will be issuing official warnings to those in question regardless of rank in PCA. I don't care how rude this may seem, or how good of an artist you think you are. This should not have to come to a debate on almost every other image on the page. I'm not speaking as the deputy of the project- I'm speaking as one of the admins. I'm sick of it, the other members are sick of it, and it needs to stop.

I agree to this. When I first joined PCA, I used that phrase way too often, admittedly, it was because I couldn't be bothered to change anything. Back then had just wanted to move on with this image and jump to the other. I hadn't used that phrase for ages, and when I look back at some of my older comments I actually have a good laugh about it.

Honestly, this whole "its fine" not only is being lazy, but being stubborn, haughty and extremely rude towards the commenters. 12:33, May 23, 2015 (UTC)

I agree as well. As an artist, you're supposed to accept critique given from others. Art is about critique, it is critique. That's how you improve. I've seen way too much of this on DeviantART, as well as here, and I don't like it any more than you do. The "it's fine" thing not only borderlines lazy, stubborn, and rude, as Burnt said above, but it also borderlines being stuck up, ignorant, and just plain defensive. I mean, as an artist, not only is critique the way for you to improve, but it helps you learn. Sometimes I just don't understand people. Storm &#9835;  13:41, May 23, 2015 (UTC)

I find I don't do it so much, but when I think my image doesn't need a tweak, I explain why and mention that I will change it anyway if other people agree it needs a change. I think just saying "it's fine" is too short and lazy. Please explain why it doesn't need a tweak, but admit if other people disagree then you will change it. Simple as that. 23:35, May 23, 2015 (UTC)

I think it's only excuable if there's a legitmate reason for it [Like you color picked from the other images, etc. etc.] and otherwise, like the others said, 'it's fine' isn't a valid excuse. 02:00, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

I agree. I do seem to be seeing a lot of the "it's fine" thing. I mean, I'm not opposed to people saying it every once in a while when they actually have a legitimate reason for rejecting the criticism but just saying "it's fine" every other comment just because you're too lazy shouldn't be acceptable. I try to avoid doing it as much as possible. Besides, if you just go with the flow, it can actually get your images approved faster than if you fight every comment. 00:40, May 25, 2015 (UTC)


 * While I am not entirely on board with the idea of issuing warnings, I do believe these excuses need to be eliminated. I think it's a bit of a stretch for a PCA excuse to be equivalent to disregarding others' opinions needing staff to step in, but I will propose that the leaders in this project step up a bit. If a user passes off reuploading their image 2-3 times through unreasonable excuses, their image should be declined. It should not be up to the staff to dictate and enforce rules in projects when there are leaders who can do so just as easily if not more so.


 * At the same time, comments can be just as frustrating as these excuses. Users should take a bit of initiative and explain their comments if it seems like it could be debatable. Honestly, if you cannot find a valid reason for your critique, then perhaps it really is not necessary. Similarly, artists who pass off comments with "it's fine" or likewise excuses should probably explain why they're choosing not to do it. 00:58, May 25, 2015 (UTC)


 * See, the thing is, I am both staff and the deputy of the project. I should not have to exert both my rights as admin, and as the second-in-command of the project to get this through to everyone. It is not the first time I've done this, and it certainly won't be the last if users are allowed to keep using the excuse. I've had it done to me before, and some of the ones who have said "it's fine" are only doing it to pass off and ignore the comments of other users. Not everyone has the same skill level, and I've noticed the "it's fine" comments are usually directed at...those who are a bit less skilled or new to the project.


 * While it shouldn't be up to outside staff, I am not one of those. Just because I am an admin, doesn't mean I am not activity involved in the project, and I won't stay impartial to this when it's something I'm very much involved in, despite the problems. I cannot help that users are refusing to do things that are asked of them, and it really seems like threatening them with a warning is one of the only options that we (PCA) have left to do. No one listened to me the last time I said any of this, and quite frankly, I'm getting sick and tired of being disregarded, and everything just goes back to how it was before I even said anything. I want this to stop now. Otherwise, we might as well eliminate the approval and tweak pages, since the whole point is to post them for critique. If you do not accept those critiques, you are in fact being disrespectful and you're disregarding the words of others since you feel your image is perfect and you don't want to accept that someone may have found something worth changing. While it's been said that you are your worst critic, you're also the first who doesn't want to change anything if it's pointed out.


 * I've tried being nice before, and I have gotten ignored. It always seems to come down to me calling out users and being rude. I did it over a year ago when the wiki was dead in an attempt to bring back activity, and I'll do it again if it gets through to people.


 * I agree, definitely - it can be rather irritating, seeing users saying 'It's fine' because they're being lazy. But then there are people who think it looks genuinely fine and don't want to make something look over-done (as in over-blurring shading or something). As long as they sound genuine and provide a perfectly honest, valid reasoning, they don't need a warning. Just an opinion of another user to justify as to whether it really is 'fine'. 01:42, May 25, 2015 (UTC)


 * No, you should not be exerting both the privileges of an admin as well as deputy. It's pretty ridiculous for staff to enforce rules that are project-restricted when there are users in place to enforce them and members who should be responsible enough to not let this get out of hand. On the other hand though, how are you exerting your power as deputy though aside from simple talk page discussions or warnings though? Take action. Like I said previously, decline their image if it gets to be unreasonable or at least implement and enforce a rule that discourages that behavior. Obviously talk page discussions or warnings aren't getting too far, so as leads and as members, no matter what rank, we should help create and enforce something to prevent this complacency. 01:47, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but sometimes it'd be silly if someone goes like "you need to remove the shading off the tail"  just a silly example what are you gonna say besides saying 'it's fine'? Change the word "fine" into "okay"? But are you actually going do things if they seem to be wrong? My comments very oftenly get ignored or denied, and I'm fine with that because I'm still learning. Everyone makes mistakes just as people said about the images, and they make mistakes on comments too. What are you gonna do about that then? I definitely agree with you, but I'm just trying to make this clear. I might sound like a total stub but as I've said - I'm still learning. 14:12, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

You could always say something like "I can't remove that shading, as it would invalidate my light source" or something else, and explain why you wouldn't be removing the shading. Everyone makes mistakes, yes, but some of these aren't mistakes and very legitimate comments which have no real reason to be disregarded, regardless of skill level. Otherwise, we seriously might as well just get rid of the approval page.

Guess what, you're incredibly right. But what about something that's kind of personal? For example, if I say "define earpink", and they reply with "I can see it fine", what do we do? Now we need more users to prove who's right, and that eventually leads to a debate sorta thing. 14:20, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

You could easily explain why you think the earpink needs to be defined to substantiate your critique and make it less of a demand. Similarly, anyone who bothers reading comments previously (which users should to avoid potential repetition) could easily agree or disagree with the artist's response. 17:04, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

I honestly think that it shouldn't be used at all, however I find that more users should comment on one thing because sometimes I want more opinions on certain comments. It can actually clear things up instead of just saying, "Oh it's fine, whatever." 23:30 Tue May 26

A while ago, there used to be a pretty common practice of saying "I think it's fine but if others agree, I will change it" why not just go back to that? If more than one user can find fault with an aspect of an image, then it's worth changing, but simply having one word against another may just be users' opinions in shading or art style clashing, which is not faulty. It's just something that comes with the territory.

In my own practice, I've tried to stay away from the "it's fine" trend, but I do agree that it does get a bit out of hand. But PCA has always allowed artists to defend their art choices and I see no reason for that to stop now. With PCA being a project, there are going to be differences in opinions 20:31, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

Rejoin??
I would like to rejoin Charart, because I don't have homework anymore. Thank you! :)  17:37, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

Rejoin
Hello, I've finally decided that I want to rejoin this project so if you could please? Thank you <3. —  ☁ ｷﾉ尺尺乇ﾚ  courage doesn't always roar!  18:09, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

-*purrs* am I even allowed to comment here... 14:16, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

Badgerfang Warrior?
Badgerfang's page lists him as a warrior (which I agree to) but we don't have a warrior image for him. Is he just too small and young to get one? We could just shrink down a warrior image or something. 07:29, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Wasn't it because it wasn't official, or something? It was just a new name, but he didn't get the rank it usually came with? 09:45, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

But I think he died before Flintfang named him a warrior?? 09:17, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Why did you remove my first comment, man?? You can't just remove something I said. >_< 09:45, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Me? I saw it on my email and checked it and nothing happened, I was wandering about that too. I didn't delete it, probably because I commented like right after you 0.0 09:51, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

the warriors are for adult sized cats only, he has the name and everythng bu he doesn't get the blank. it's like kits not getting a rogue image; they're not scaled fora kitten. 11:45, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

I agree. he shouldn't get a warrior image. 11:50, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

The apprentice is not kitten sized either :P still, he didn't officially become a warrior at any point of the book. The mentor themselves can't make them guadruate without the leader's permission and why I'm bullcrapping things everyone already knows here XP. 11:54, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

the apprentice is way closer in size to a kitten, and it's used for anything from still kitten sized to basically full grown by the time they're ready to become a warrior, so that's fine. and i guess it's an unofficial thing, but cats were referring to him with the name. (aka thats how he introduced himself when giving tigerstar a life) 11:56, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Fernshade
Why doesn't Fernshade have lumpy fur on her queen image? 09:20, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

When she was a queen her fur was sleek lol 09:51, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

XPPP but I thought she became a warrior before becoming a queen? Becoming a queen fixes her pelt just doesn't seem to make sense... I'm confused, that's all :P 09:53, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

But she was a warrior after she became a queen too 09:59, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh right :P 10:12, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Sharpclaw Deputy and Warrior Alts
Ok so im not a warrior yet so i cant post this up on the nominations board. But I wanted this to be looked at. The Deputy and Warrior alt are two completly different Base colours. Either that or the deputy has highlights. And also, the shading on the legs for the deputy could be defined a bit. Just wanting to touch up on this. 20:03, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Tigerstar - Cream Tabby Alt
I'm not sure if this is the right place to bring this up, so I apologise in advance if not. On the cover of Return to the Clans, Tigerstar is depicted as a cream tabby, and I wonder, would he recieve an alt. for this? Considering many others have recieved alts for their depictions in the manga. My mistake if this has already been brought up. 20:39, May 30, 2015 (UTC)