Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Unoffical leaders (SPOILERS)
Sorry I should've brought it up with PC prior to doing anything. Okay so unofficial leaders, I know that this has been discussed before but in Darktail's case, he was heavily referred to a leader so many times Alderpaw was just like "why isn't he called Darkstar you dumdums". He refers to himself as a leader several times, and they drove SkyClan out and he is the leader of the rogues technically, and they all listen to him and stuff like that. Does that make him a leader, or should we put it as unofficialy? Same thing goes for Jingo, by the way. 14:21, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

A leader is a leader, regardless. At the same time, it would also be appropriate to clearly define what the leader rank is. Is it only a Clan rank, and if it is, then why are these cats clearly labeled as leaders of their own group? If so, then what's to say for cats like Furled Bracken and Stone Song, who were very much leaders of the Ancient group of cats we saw in Long Shadows and Sign of the Moon, and why aren't they entitled to a leader charart?

Is our blank only a Clan leader charart? If so, then why are all Clan leaders marked with "Leader" instead of "Clan Leader", when the leader rank itself is shown to be used elsewhere? Slash's group, Darktail's group (they'd also get a page, I think?????), Jingo's group, the Ancient cats, BloodClan, ect. There are multiple groups within the series that have a clear leader of their group, but they don't get anything special.

Right now I think we should think of status, not charart. What I'm thinking is that we have a leader, but maybe in the trivia it says they're not a Clan leader? Or maybe Leader (Unofficially), and officially can be a Clan? Idk I'm tired 14:30, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

They're tied together, and you can't talk about one without bringing up the other, Icy. =P And technically, cats like Slash, Darktail, Furled Bracken, and Stone Song aren't unofficial. They are called leaders, and multiple times at that. They're just not Clan leaders, which makes me think we need to redefine what a leader is and who does and doesn't count.

a leader is a leader, regardless of the group, they have the same job even if they don't have the same methods, the only real difference is the nine lives the clan leaders get, so they really should get some kind of rank acknowledgement. all in all it's just up to the wiki itself if we want to use the images for non clan cats or not. 14:35, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

I hate to say this, but maybe we could have a blank for non-clan leaders? But this is PC, and I think we can call them leaders (non-clan) or something like that. We need to acknowledge that they are leaders, but not Clan leaders. 14:51, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

They are most definitely leaders, but perhaps we could create a Non-Clan Leader rank/category for them? I do agree that each group probably should have it's own page, as said above.

There are so many examples of non-Clan leaders that I'm surprised this rank hasn't been brought in before.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:33, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

Comments?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:12, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

I think a leader is a leader regardless whether it is of a clan or another group because isn't a clan just a group? 21:21, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Have we reached a conclusion?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  06:22, April 18, 2016 (UTC)

It would seem so. Jaysnow (talk) 02:29, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Then what is it? Are we going to create a non Clan leader category? 15:21, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should have that and a rank too. We should rename leaders 'Clan Leaders' (because they are so often called that) then non-Clan leaders just 'leaders', because again that's what they are called in the books. They should be given a category and rank for it and the rest is up to PCA.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:37, May 7, 2016 (UTC)

Stealth, do you mean PCA, or PC? Because if we give them a rank, we do have to have a blank for it, because that's hardly doing it properly. All other ranks should have a blank, so if we decide to do this, know that a blank will be necessary, as it is considered an official rank on this wiki. We can't reuse the leader blanks that we currently have, as they are Clan leader blanks. But that's a PCA discussion, not PC. I don't know if anyone else is going to comment on this, and since there was at least six days between your comment and the last, Stealth, I think it's alright to go ahead and ask for a final call for comments.

I really don't see the need for a whole new leader blank. Can't we do what we did with the healer blank - tweak the leader? But then again that is for PCA. This is PC and we haven't even decided if it's official or not. 16:50, May 8, 2016 (UTC)

PCA. Yes I meant PCA sorry. Anymore comments for this? PC comments?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  02:12, May 12, 2016 (UTC)

Okay how will we do this? I think clan leaders should be called that, "Clan Leaders" and non-clan leaders should just be called "Leaders", because really that's what they are called in the books.Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  08:51, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, that sounds good, but maybe we shouldn't change the status box itself, and just keep it as Leader: Firestar, or Leader: Darktail? 14:41, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

anymore comments on this? 01:06, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

About 4 people have commented and agreed. How will we do this? I still say the same with my previous comment.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:40, August 19, 2016 (UTC)

Character Ages
Alright, so, I had a nice piece of information sent to me on tumblr last week, and I figure that it's kinda important, since it revolves around the character ages on the articles. Now, some of these appear to be right...but others don't make a lick of sense? tldr the image explains what I'm trying to say... but I really think we need to rethink when we add ages to character pages, because something's not right here. Do we try and fix these mistakes (as there are quite a few), or do we try something else instead?

I think we need this general rule: The ages will only change when a new book comes out and nothing else. I think partially the reason people are mixed up because maths is not the easiest in the world and it's hard to tell how much time passes in books sometimes. I think yes fix the mistakes and be very strict about ages being changed. Maybe only a certain few users (like the charart being changed on the character pages) are allowed to edit these ages. Might be a little hard to reinforce at first but people will eventually get it.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:36, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Stealthfire makes a good point. Jaysnow (talk) 00:37, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

I can reread the entire series and pinpoint the characters' almost exact ages by taking notes.

Let's try to fix all these mistakes. I know seeing the characters' ages helps me out a ''ton. ''Why don't we use the Events Timeline for a reference when we're done fixing it up? 00:42, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Why not just start over with the ages? Delete them from the character articles for now, rework the system (and when and why the ages are updated, just like Stealth said), and then put them back on the character pages? We could always use a PC subpage or something along those lines to have the approx. ages and the evidence that proves it?

I agree; I know that the DTC timeline is being made, and I think that would make it much easier to track the DTC cats' ages when that is finalized. For the other cats too, though, I agree that it would be a good idea to just clear it for now and add it back in later when the ages are updated. <span style="">02:10 Thu Apr 7

I think on a page ( timeline page or character ages) we should have a rough moon time scale. ie how many moons have past since Tallstar was made an apprentice till when was Bluestars made leader. This would help us get an accurate time span. 10:44, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should take them off for now, fix them, then put them back on. There's so many characters, and it'd be good to take them off temporarily to make sure we don't forget anyone.

I think it's better to leave them just on (for now) and make a subpage to put down notes per book and then change the ages for each specific character. It would probably be best to start with Into the Wild, since I will be reading the book shortly.

Have we reached a conclusion? R(Right now I'm working on a timeline so maybe I can help with this.) 21:10, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to poke this. 15:53, April 18, 2016 (UTC)

Have we reached a conclusion or no? 17:08, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

It's seems to me that everybody agrees that the ages should be taken off, then added back on later when the timeline is fixed. <span style="">18:41 Sat Apr 23

I'm not sure, it doesn't really seem like that. Does everyone agree that we should take the ages off until the timeline is constructed? I heavily disagree because it could be a while until the timeline is constructed. 00:45, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should keep them on, it's pointless to me to spend a load of time removing the ages, only to add them back on later. We should just keep them cause yeah, the timeline could take a really long time

Just remove the bit of coding that makes the ages show on the template. There, problem solved. It can be readded when the ages are fixed.

No problem not solved. The ages shouldn't be removed at all. They'll be fixed but they shouldn't be removed. Who knows how long it will be until the ages are fixed? I agree with Spooky. 19:01, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

why should they remain when they;re not right? it;s just giving out false information and I don;t see why other false information is rmeoved but this gets to stay, lol. 19:23, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Because right now they're really helpful even if they're off. They're not even that much off, it's approximate and it IS going to be fixed and I hope sooner rather than later. I just think it's very inconvenient to take it off when someone obviously worked hard to find it. We'll fix it. 01:21, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Icy, I was talking about on the template itself. It's very easy to remove, and since they're wrong, they shouldn't be on character articles. Just because people worked hard, doesn't mean it's not wrong and shouldn't be fixed. It can be added back when it's fixed, but for now, many of those ages are completely and totally wrong and should not be reflected on the article. We remove incorrect statements all the time, and this is one of them. It's not inconvenient at all; it's removing the wrong information until the correct things can be added.

I know you're talking about the template. However I think it's unnecessary as of now because the timeline might not even be complete. 10:17, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Lightflame has agreed to help me with the character ages and I have a template that will help. For now, we can hide the ages as Cloudy said (if you all agree). Would you be willing to do that, Cloudy? 15:21, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

I'll hide it once the conclusion has properly concluded.

What? Don't hide it. The conclusion hasn't been reached yet. When the conclusion is "hide it", then you can hide it, but right now don't hide anything because it hasn't been reached. 02:19, May 7, 2016 (UTC)

Uh, I said I would once the conclusion has been reached. I never touched the template after I said that. You even said in your last message "we can hide the ages", and that's what I was responding to. =/

here are the ages 21:03, May 15, 2016 (UTC)

So what are we going to do about those ages? Should we add the ones I linked? 17:50, May 25, 2016 (UTC)

So where exactly are the citations for those ages, anyways? Also, where does it say that Twigkit and Violetkit are only half a moon old? I don't think that's directly stated in the book... and I don't think Needlepaw's age is either; we can't go by how many Gatherings or when she was apprenticed, because she could have been apprenticed early or late, as we have examples of each kind. Cherryfall and Molewhisker due to various contexts given in the last half of the Omen of the Stars arc, anyways.

Twigkit and Violetkit were calculated from the context given by Alderpaw, and so was Needlepaw. But does the project want to use these ages or not, and we can find the correct cites? 14:40, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

I think the context of age given for Twigkit and Violetkit could be used, since it seems pretty clear but I'm kinda iffy on whether it should count for Needlepaw or not

Comments? 06:15, July 15, 2016 (UTC)

If there aren't any other comments, I say just add the ages to the pages..but there still haven't been any citations given, especially for Needlepaw.

Yeah go ahead.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:40, August 19, 2016 (UTC)

Tribe of Rushing Water Names
Alright so I was thinking about something this morning, but I way too tired to post it. When it comes to the Tribe of Rushing Water and their names, how we currently have it seems a bit... I dunno, cluttered. Given that the name in parenthesis is an informal name, wouldn't it make sense to change this:

Brook Where Small Fish Swim (Brook) is a sleek,[2] soft,[7] and thick-furred,[8] lithe,[1] brown tabby she-cat with gray eyes[4] and a torn ear.[9]

to something like this:

Brook Where Small Fish Swim, informally known as Brook, is a sleek,[2] soft,[7] and thick-furred,[8] lithe,[1] brown tabby she-cat with gray eyes[4] and a torn ear.[9] (for those who aren't sure what "informally" means because words lmao: have a link)

Given that the shortened name is very often used in casual discussion? Plus, it kinda makes it look like "Brook Where Small Fish Swim (Brook)" is Brook's name, when it's actually "Brook Where Small Fish Swim", and "Brook" is just her shortened name, kinda like how Icy's nickname is a shortened version of her old username, Icestorm123, Stealth is a shortened version of Stealth's username, ect.

I really like the idea, it does seem to flow better because the parentheses seem weird since it's an entirely shortened name in itself type of thing, yet next to the name which could throw people off if they haven't read about the character yet.

Well I agree that it makes sense when you say that it makes her name look like 'Brook Where Small Fish Swim (Brook)', but I wouldn't say she is 'informally' called Brook; everyone calls her Brook. Or like when Brambleclaw saw Night for the first time in like 10 (okay it was more like 1 or 2 but still) years, he still called her Night, instead of Night of No Stars etc. Imo it would be more accurate if it was 'Brook Where Small Fish Swim, more commonly known as Brook', because the name 'Brook' was used by everyone, and she was almost always referred to as Brook. <span style="">02:08 Sat May 14

This is a good idea. Jaysnow (talk) 07:19, June 2, 2016 (UTC)

May I get more comments on this? I'd really like to implement this if everyone agrees. I'm for adding "more commonly known" instead of what I suggested, by the way.

I'd rather more commonly known. 13:01, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Anymore comments on this? 01:05, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

I still think this is a good idea. Jaysnow (talk) 14:52, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

So is it agreed that we put this in motion? 03:23, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

I think so, Icy. I'll give it 24 hours for anymore comments and if no one disagrees, then we can impliment it and add the new change as a note in the guidelines, I think.

Yep go ahead.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:40, August 19, 2016 (UTC)

Boulder
Alright, so I was checking a few things, and I came across Boulder's description; it strikes me as odd, considering we have him listed as "silver-gray", which appears to be combining two cites. One for a "silver tabby tom" and one for a "gray tom".

Now, as we've found out with PCA, silver tabbies have a lighter base coloring and darker (often black) stripes. Silver-gray cats and gray cats don't always have this. Is there a reason the two cites are combined, because I'm about 10000% positive they shouldn't have been. Silver, silver-gray, and gray are three completely different things.

The issue I have is what his actual description should be; there's about an equal mention (that I could find) for both silver and gray, and he seems to go from a "silver tabby tom" to a "skinny gray tom", once we reach the second arc in the series...

tldr; the cites shouldn't have been combined and I think Boulder's description needs to be modified to properly represent that, and the other description added to his trivia.

Yeah it should be changed. I'm willing to go through each book he appears in and at least attempt to find what he is mentioned more as. If they are exactly equal, then we go with what he is mentioned first with. Simple as that.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:43, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

Alright I went through his appearances and this is what I found:

Mentioned as silver: 7 times

Mentioned as gray: 18

Most of his gray mentions is from The Darkest Hour and Yellowfang's Secret, but I think even taking away those mentions it'll still outnumber the times he called silver. Interestingly though, he is never mentioned as a tabby with gray fur at the same time. His either a silver tabby or a skinny gray. I think if we are going with gray, his tabby cite would probably be removed. Other than that, his other cites appear at the times he is called gray.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:49, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

I would think so, because that's combining citations that literally have nothing to do with each other, and the silver tabby cite would be added to the trivia and the respective images kept if they are warranted.

Anymore comments? If not then we'll go ahead and change Boulder's description.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:40, August 19, 2016 (UTC)

September FA
That time again. Any suggestions?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:05, August 7, 2016 (UTC)

Yellowfang might be good

I think some of her history needs expansion. Just noting Thunder and Shadow is coming out next month, so we could do a character related to that? How about Rosepetal because it's likely she'll appear in the next book and besides a cite I shall go fix, she looks ready.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  06:26, August 11, 2016 (UTC)

Any comments on this?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:01, August 13, 2016 (UTC)

Rosepetal sounds great. 22:53, August 17, 2016 (UTC)

Anymore Comments before the vote?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:40, August 19, 2016 (UTC)

Dawnstripe is not a queen?
I already wrote about that on Dawnstrype's talk page, but since no one noticed it I thought maybe it's better placed here where are people around to discuss the issue. If I'm wrong on this page, please tell me! Try my best to find my way into how everything works.

I am not shure if Dawnstripe is really a queen in Battles of the Clans. It's not directly statet that she is a queen and I think you came to this conclusion because Hailstar aproaches the nursery. But Dawnstripe is not seen in the nursery. Hailstar is running in the direction of the nursery, goes inside where the queens begin to panic, then he spinns around (facing out of the nursery) and sees Dawnstripe at the entrance of the nursery and its said that she raised the alarm by yowling before. So I don't think she is a queen, she is just a normal warrior and runs to the nursery when she sees Hailstar running in. She was not inside the nursery and it's not statet that she is a queen. SuSusann (talk) 20:22, August 20, 2016 (UTC)

I had a look and I agree. Dawnstripe is never mentioned as a queen. In fact, the queens featured were unnamed.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:03, August 20, 2016 (UTC)

Whitetail and Antpelt in Battles of the Clans
I have a second issue. Normally in the main series, the cats called Whitetail and Antpelt are WindClan cats. Now in Battles of the Clans two cats with the same name appear, but are seen as ShadowClan cats. There is no other hint then the name that they may be the same cat, but that's not the problem. If you look at Whitetails article, the ShadowClan-Whitetail was just added into that article and it's said that her appearance as ShadowClan Cat was a mistake. However, if you look at Antpelt (WC), the ShadowClan-Antpelt was not added into the article, but a second Antpelt (SC) character was created. It's exactly the same case with both characters, but one got an own article and the other didn't. So maybe you could decide how to handle this? Its inconsistent like this. You can either make a second Whitetail (SC) character or put Antpelt (WC) and Antpelt (SC) together so it is consistent again and I hope you can decide how to handle this. SuSusann (talk) 20:22, August 20, 2016 (UTC)

I think we forgot to address Whitetail when we addressed Antpelt. I checked this too and I agree.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:03, August 20, 2016 (UTC)

Ravenpaw's torn ear
I found another one and it's about Ravenpaw's torn ear. First, the cite says The Darkest Hour page 210, but Ravenpaw is not even mentioned around this page. So I searched through the book where his ear is mentioned. The only page where Ravenpaw's ear is mentioned is The Darkest Hour page 187, but it is not said that his ear is torn. I quote: "(...)and Ravenpaw's left ear was bleeding, but otherwise they seemed unhurt."

A bleeding ear is no cite for a torn ear in my opinion and the word "torn" or "ripped" is not used in connection with Ravenpaw's ears anywhere. So I would recommend to take the torn ear out of his description and character art. SuSusann (talk) 06:41, August 22, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah it's not there. I mean, in a case like this you could probably just remove it because someone must've put in that faulty cite and it just slipped through and was never corrected. If the book doesn't say when the cite is checked, then it's usually just removed on the spot.

Okay thanx for responding! I just was not sure if I can remove it without getting undone emediately! SuSusann (talk) 12:29, August 22, 2016 (UTC)

Join Request
I also would like to join the project if this is possible! Since I'm checking the cites now anyway and will have more issues to discuss I think. SuSusann (talk) 06:41, August 22, 2016 (UTC)