Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

My New Member Rank
Hey, I don't mean to rush..But since the vote for the different path for a kit to become an apprentice-apprentice to warrior thing passed, I have been contantly active on the project. So does that mean I should be ranked up to a warrior now? 23:54, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

You know, I'd been meaning to bring something up, but I'd actually forgotten about it, and was really busy as of late. This is not directed at you, but.... I actually do not feel comfortable with a user who has not gotten an image approved (for whatever reason, especially the one month limit, since the limits for tweaks and redos are even less) being allowed to tweak images. Making charart requests is one thing, but.. I really don't think that someone who's obtained the rank of warrior this way, without having anything approved, should be allowed to edit an image that was not originally theirs, since we don't know the full potential. I have no problems with them becoming warriors, but it's the tweaking aspect of it that does not sit well with me. I do apologize, but I honestly think that if someone doesn't have at least one image approved, they shouldn't be allowed to tweak an image.

Okay, but what if you're in my circumstance where I've finished an image, but not the current given number? And also, no offense Snow (the newest user on the block! lol) but keep in mind we did have a vote on this, and it did pass. I'd say an assessment image for those without a complete image might work- maybe? 06:42 Wed Oct 9

And the very definition of warrior status is built off the concept of tweaks: being able to tweak and vote. So, if warrior status means just a name on a screen and nothing besides, I really don't see the point of the alternate route besides easy-access promotions for new users- which, of course is the opposite of what we're truying to do here. No offense, and no personal attack intentions here, but... yeah. 06:46 Wed Oct 9

Uh, if you're talking about me, I'm the PCA deputy??????? I just got a username change???? I'm not new???? Anyways, I am well aware there was a vote? I said I had been meaning to bring it up, but hadn't gotten around to bringing it up, since I've been /sick/ and busy with work the past couple of weeks... And I'm not sure if an assessment image would work? Would it still be just as strictly critiqued as a "normal" PCA image, or something like that? o.O

Lol, I was joking about having to call you a new nickname!!!!!! ;[ Sorry!!!! Anyways, I meant that (no offense) your say is not community consensus. yeah maybe we could do another vote once we solidify things. And I'm assuming we'd critique it like a normal PCA image, as that's how they would learn what's acceptable. but looking over it again, I don't think that'd work out too well because where'd we put the image? And I /do/ agree that while critiquing others does help you be a better artist, but I know a few artists that (not mentioning names) have stuck around for a while and still have quite a bit to learn... Perhaps including myself X3 hope you feel better snowy 07:17 Wed Oct 9

Uhh, I never said that my say was community consensus? I never even implied that? I don't actually get where you're coming from with that, and if you're accusing me of something, I'd appreciate it if you don't. I know there was a vote, and I voted on it. There was just something else that I'd thought of and completely didn't mention, when I should have earlier, and now that Raven's posted, it jolted my memory into saying something.

Also, everyone has more to learn. No one's perfect here (no matter how good they are at art or anatomy, there's always something more to learn from making images and blanks and such), and that's why we critique images...while someone has the right to reject a critique, saying "it's fine" and that's it, seems to be a little more on the lazy side, and that brings me to another discussion which I'll probably start in the morning.

Anyways, my point is, that I honestly don't think someone who hasn't gotten at least one image approved, regardless of their progress on said images, should be allowed to tweak. As long as they have at least one image approved, as you do, I wouldn't be against letting you tweak an image. I just would rather not someone who hasn't gotten one of their own approved edit an already approved one, since they might not know what they're getting into. Sometimes, people have brought /other/ things to light when tweaking an image, like say, defining the shading more, on something that only needed a grayscale change, or a ripped ear, or ragged fur. Or maybe adding tabby stripes due to someone finding a cite in the process of an image being tweaked. The possibilities are actually quite endless and could happen more frequently than you think.

I understand your point. Would it make you feel better if I promised not to tweak an image until I've had one image approved? Or should I make you an image at my best? Or maybe you could get more people to comment on Blizzardpaw, since I'm so bored and my deadline is coming up. ._. 20:28, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Ask on chat, as you can't force people to comment. You'll probably get a reply faster via chat. 20:30, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

I cannot force people to comment on your image, Raven. And don't harass others on chat to comment. One "can I ask for comments?" is fine, and you've already done that on your image. If you want to make an image, fine, but I'm /not/ promising that it will count, since this isn't even official or anything like that. I also can't decide what should be done in cases where someone hasn't gotten an image approved. It's not up to me, and it was only a suggestion. If someone disagrees with me, they should speak up, and perhaps we can get this discussion off the ground?

Why do you think I am accusing you of something? It was just a reminder that others need to agree first. I'm sorry, I should have been more detailed and elaborated on the fact that I don't think we should cancel unless others agree, but I specifically stated earlier that I had no intention of personally attacking anyone.. So please just quit assuming bad faith.

Anyways, I'm guessing the "promo art" probably wouldn't work out, but I was thinking, maybe kits only should be moved up via 3-week rule, and then after an apprentice is past 3 weeks of apprenticeship without images approved they should have first dibs on an image for say, 24 hours would be "3-week apprenticeship selection"? After the 24-hours expires, all other members would be valid to pick up the image.

However, this would be kind of limiting the project so... What do you guys think? Good or bad? 23:17 Wed Oct 9

I'm not assuming bad faith, so don't accuse me of such ._.;; I said it was a suggestion, and one that I should have brought up earlier, but I was busy and forgot, hence why I'm saying it now. I never once said that was I said was set in stone. Saying that I don't feel comfortable with people tweaking other images when they can't even get their own approved is an opinion I am entitled to, and I'll voice it if I please. I know that others need to agree??? I've been here almost four and half years, and community consensus was one of the very first things I was introduced to on this wiki. And yes, it might limit the project, but having inexperienced users working on images might not be such a good idea if you really think about it...and I'm starting to regret voting yes on that.

Like Cloudy, I agree that there should be no exceptions to the ranking up or anything. And as I have said before, getting an image approved is almost just getting you ready for tweaking - practice, for better words.

Though I do agree with the 24-hour apprentice idea. It would be helpful to the new members of the project, and actually give them a chance to move up in rank and continue on with more duties within the project. 19:47, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

(This may be a bit late; this is referring to Raven's most recent comment) Raven if you're bored about it waiting for comments try study the image yourself for improvement. I did it with Fuzzypelt's appy image several times. See anything to improve; try spy out rogue waste, have a look if the eye depth needs defining, if the shading needs defining or see if a different tint would match it to other images. (Of course tinting depends) Anthing minor could effect the timing it gets CBA'd - approved. 20:36, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Sorrel, I'll do that. And I'm sorry guys, I didn't mean to start an argument if I did.. 15:05, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to comment again soon but I felt like first I need to say something: What about my case? Sorry for sounding selfish or impatient, but I've completed an image. But since I took an absence for like 2 weeks I guess I wouldn't be eligible at the moment but like, in a couple weeks would I be moved up or would I need to snag a few more images? Just wondering for the moment... 22:59 Fri Oct 11

Well, if we'd do what I suggested, then you'd be fine to tweak, and you've already had an image approved. My thing is only against people who've gotten up to the rank of warrior without getting a single image approved, whether it be because there haven't been any, or it got declined or there were other circumstances that prevented an image from being approved. I seriously have no idea what exactly's going on with the whole ranking thing, and what's active to some might not be active to others.

I didn't agree with the three week stuff on that recent vote, and in my opinion, Someone who hasn't had an image approved really shouldn't be eligible to tweak, as it is usually harder. However, I think that an assessment image could be a good idea, as Cloudy mentioned, or simply maybe bump the requirements to at least one image approved?

Agreeing with Stoner. When you're an apprentice, getting three images approved sounds like it will take, well, forever. Especially now, with no images to do, apart from when you find something in Tallstar's Revenge that requires an alt. So yeah. That probably doesn't make sense. &#9786;      Ⓐ   Ⓜ  Ⓑ  Ⓔ  Ⓡ    Ⓢ Ⓗ Ⓘ  Ⓝ  Ⓔ    Hope  comes  with  FLYING OREOS 11:28 Sun Oct 13

Well, I just want to say kits should still be able to promote after 3 weeks because after looking at other people's comments on layers and stuff should give them info on how to make an image.

Anyways, I don't think the assessment image would work out because there wouldn't be any place to put them, and even if we did create a whole seperate page to put them it would create unnecessary uploads. The 24 hour thing would go like, there would be a new subrank between apprentices/warriors like, "assessment stage" or something where after an image is declined/withdrawn only they can pick up images. And then if 24 hours passes and no one picks it up then everyone could pick it up (including the assessment-stagers).

Also, may I pick up an image to tweak from the list? I'm not listed as a warrior yet so I figured I might as well ask, to avoid the trouble of misunderstanding. 02:54 Mon Oct 14

Looking at other images and making them are two completely different things. Just because you can look at one doesn't mean you can make one. x.x Also, I still think that the promotion should be paused until the issue I presented has been solved. Users who are inexperienced in making the art should not be tweaking others.

Anyways, I was thinking up a few ideas:
 * 1) the 24-hour apprentice rule (which has my favor)
 * 2) the assessment image
 * 3) a rule where an apprentice is paired with a mentor and is given a random image off the tweak list to tweak, and would work with them to make it acceptable. They would then proceed to sharihg with the leader and deputy, and if they approve as, say, 90% acceptable then it would count for one. they would have to repeat this process 3 times. it promotes the mentor program, but again it might overload the leader and deputy. Similar to the assessment image, but it includes preparartion for tweaking as well as does not overload the project as a whole, rather focusing on SW-to-apprentice bonding (which i think is really lacking in the project).

Feel free to edit the list. This list is totally not limited to just these ideas. in fact, i encourage it :) -- 02:39 Wed Oct 23

Alright so I don't have time to read through this, but scanning through it seems like nobody's mentioned it so I wanna go ahead an suggest it. Why not simply add a new requirement to tweaking/redoing images? That you have to have at least one image approved to do so. It honestly wouldn't be hard to track, and seems fair enough to the new warriors. I haven't been active enough to keep track, but I believe warriors can vote now, so they will still have new privileges as a warrior, just not tweaking unless they've had an image approved. I honestly think it'd be much much simpler than any of the other options.

Excuse me if I'm misunderstood the problem or anything, or this has been mentioned, like I said, I can't read through this all right now.

Yes, that's a wonderful idea, and I'd be more than willing to go along with that. I just want them to have some experience with their own images before they touch someone else's. Warriors are allowed to vote now, yes, and I'd feel a lot more comfortable with them tweaking images if they've already gotten experience in the project. Making a personal image for someone as opposed to something that is critiqued and approved are two different things. With Paleh's idea, it's quite simple, and makes sure that a warrior has the experience that they should have gotten as a kit or apprentice.

Yeah, this sounds great 👍 10:27 Thu Nov 7

Any other comments, guys? I kinda want to do something with this.

Ok, so I'm inferring from what Paleh said, she means long-term apprentices without an image approved become warriors, but not able to tweak? Am I mistaken?

But the thing is, I don't think people who have not had the experience of getting an image approved should be held responsible for allowing an image to be tweaked. I think they should be able to weigh from firsthand experience why it should be fixed as well as the severity of the issue against the rationality of the nomination, something you have to achieve from experience. Like, how minor something is against how hard it would be to fix? That's why we used to only have SW's vote... I think. I wasn't there, but I'm guessing so.

Note I did not mean to offend anyone, point out anyone, or anything of the sort. I'm a little unstable in my thoughts, so I'd appreciate if someone can step in and clarify for me. :3 05:21 Wed Nov 20

Several New Images
I got The Ultimate Guide yesterday, and found several possible images in there. Rusty is described with a red pelt on page 5, Hal is called a rogue on page 61, Pinestar is called ginger, and then red on page 92,  Heathertail is shown as being ginger on page 112 (I know she got an alt. for that same image, but she was an apprentice then and is a warrior now),  Briarlight is shown without her broken back on page 48,  Raggedstar is shown without his ragged pelt on page 60, and Mapleshade is mentioned as an apprentice on page 120. 22:42, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and I found another one;  Tallpoppy is shown in StarClan on page 96 (unsure about this one, as she is alive in The Last Hope). 23:04, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

Ooh, this is cool. I got The Ultimate Guide also and I to found the same things. Also, with some users claiming characters for Thunder Rising and some of them didn't, I don't think it would be fair for the ones who didn't get some of the cats. The should get to make chararts in my opinion because I honestly don't think it'd be fair if none of them ever get to claim an image /just because some users are faster at claiming images/. So, to top this out, I'd say we should make these chararts, because the users who didn't get to claim characters for TR will get a chance. -- 23:32, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

Just pointing out, Briarlight isn't shown without her broken back. It may not be glaringly obvious, but honestly and injury like that wouldn't be. Her posture implies a broken back, so there should be no alt for that.


 * Rusty - Firestar is already ginger so that's kind of redundant. xD


 * Hal - yes.


 * Pinestar - just for ginger as ginger and red are usually the same.


 * Heathertail - yes.


 * Briarlight - No, I don't think so unless they explicitely state that she is a warrior in that picture.


 * Raggedstar - No, that's too minor to warrant an alt.


 * Mapleshade - of course.


 * Tallpoppy - yes.


 * Also, Silverberry, first come first serve is about the fairest we can get when it comes to reserving images. Just because more experienced users are usually faster doesn't mean they have an unfair advantage over anybody else. At the moment the wiki clock strikes midnight you can reserve. If you're there or not it doesn't matter. I know I'm not often there and it just takes patience and the willingness to do any image.


 * And " we should make these chararts, because the users who didn't get to claim characters for TR will get a chance" is not a reason for an alt. Alts have to be warranted. They have to be a) different enough from the main images and other alts to be needed, b) able to be displayed on a charart, and c) reliably citable and relevant. So the next time you want to complain about not getting an image you're just going to have to be faster as that's all there is to it. It's first come first serve and always has been so there's no point in whining about it as that's about as fair as it can get. 0:24 Thu Nov 7 2013

I have the book and I can tell you that her back is broken in that picture, and it looks like she's dragging herself along.

Found another; Brook seems to be kind of orangish in color on page 154 (or is that just me?). 00:24, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

I honestly don't know if we should do some of these.. Like, they could easily be up for interpretation. I know with Mapleshade, she doesn't look ginger and white to me... Also Tallpoppy's a confusing one... she was alive in The Last Hope, and this story takes place long before then...

Tallpoppy should get the image regardless of the fact it's a mistake she was in starclan. She was still shown as that rank. Just as Ravenpaw was mistakenly called a rogue. He still gets the image.

Queen Images
Okay, so does anyone here remember what we did with the apprentice blanks when they were redone? Well, after talking about it with a couple of the other members of the project, both leads and non-leads, and even users not directly involved with PCA, and we've come to the conclusion the best way to get these images done, and done in a timely manner, is to do the method of reserving images and posting them as done in the past.

To do this, we're going to extend the maximum images to two for the approval page. However, this only applies if you have a queen image. For those who were not around, or don't remember, what we did was upped the amount of images a user could post at once for approval.

This means a user could have the following possibilities for their reservations:
 * One queen image, one regular image (or new image being used for queen blanks, like, say a queen image for Petal, since she does not have one on her page already), and one tweak (if you are a warrior or lead).
 * Two queen images, and one tweak. This would mean that you would be redoing already existing queen images, found here.
 * One regular image, and two tweaks/redos that are not queen blanks.

Quite honestly, as long as there's not more than one new image per person, not counting the redone queen images, on the approval page at once, I don't quite mind. I don't want to see three queen images reserved to one user, though. The maximum you may have is two on the approval page, and if myself or the other leads see anything more, we will decline on the spot.

Any and all users (both part of the project or not) may post queen images on the PCA approval page, as they are completely and totally new images, and not just being redone using the same blanks. This means that kits, apprentices, warriors, and leads all have fair chances to work on images. Scarlet and I were around when we redid the apprentice blanks, and the way we did it was efficient, quicker, and gave the others a chance to work on images they might have never had a chance to should we have only allowed warriors and up to redo the queen images with the new blanks.

That being said, the perma-queen blanks are also being redone, and since they are a modified version of Paleh's queen blanks, Scarlet and I (along with the voices of others), have agreed to let her tweak her already existing blanks and repost the perma-queens, since they are hers, after all, and she knows exactly what would need to be done and where things would need to be tweaked.

Hmm, I believe I've gotten it all pretty much said... If anyone's got questions, fire away.

Aka. If I want a queen image I can reserve one even with sandstorms alt needing to get done? That's cool but then where do I put my reservation dates 06:27 Fri Nov 8

I don't think we actually added a reservation date... but just add it with a slash. so like it would be date for sandstorm/date for soandso's queen image. on the same line

Makes sense, Snowed. Good idea: we'll have the queens done in no time. 0:44 Sat Nov 9

Question: okay, so i'm working on Leaf now. Since I can do 2 approval images for a limited time, is it possible for me to do a queen image and Leaf? Because I didn't really get what was explained above.. 02:57, November 9, 2013 (UTC)

I knew a couple people might not understand it..so that's why I'm here. yes, you may work on a queen image of your choosing. However, since you already have a new original image (Leaf's rogue), you cannot choose a new queen image (like say, one from Thunder Rising), but instead the queen images that are listed here, that need to be redone. Just make sure one you want to do isn't already reserved or not being used, or that it's not a perma-queen blank, as seen with the blanks used on this image or ones like it.

Thanks! That cleared it up for me. I went and reserved Clovertail c: 05:51, November 9, 2013 (UTC)

Hi, I just joined and this looked interesting, I was wondering if I could join.

Thanks! nossiebay (talk) 16:56, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Sure thing, Nossie! Just make sure to add the heading next time c:. I'll add you in as a Kit ^^ 19:26, November 22, 2013 (UTC)

joining?
Hello i wanted to join the charart project  and it said to post here Animerider (talk) 06:42, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yep, this is where you post if you want to join~ I'll add you in right now. Please make sure to read the guidelines. If you'd like individual help with creating chararts you can look over the apprentice tutorials, and if you'd like help with chararts from a member of the project you can apply for a mentor at the mentor program. If you have any questions feel free to ask! 21:25, 11/26/2013

one question where is the reserved list? i looked for 2 hours and couldnt find it. is it the ones needing images? Animerider (talk) 10:30, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

Lionheart ~ Trufty fur?
Lionheart is mentioned with tufty fur several times: once in Bluestar's Prophecy and another in Code of the Clans. Would that grant him the availability to be tweaked? If this does pass, however, I'd like them. 1:10 Wed Nov 27

I believe so. Stick it on the nomination page. 18:42, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Rejoin
I want to rejoin, I was sooo offline, lately... I think I was an apprentice. It's been a long time :D 23:51 Wed Nov 27

Welcome back! I'll put you in as a kit, since I don't think you've had an approved image yet. Be sure to check up on the project's rules and guidelines c: 00:12, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Rejoin
Sorry about leaving the first time, I tend to do that. I want to get involved here so may I rejoin? Stoem star 01:43, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Sure, I'll add you in now. Here are the guidelines if you need to refresh yourself on the rules ^^  01:00, December 1, 2013 (UTC)

Join?
I was told to post a join rquest on the charart talk page if I wanted to join so, I'm asking if I might join the project?

Angel Studio (talk) 04:00, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

It said on the page to post join requests here, so...

To put it bluntly, may i join please?

Supersmew (talk) 18:23, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

I'll add you both in now~ Make sure to read over the guidelines, please. If you need individual, on your own, help with chararts you can use the apprentice tutorials, and if you'd like assisted help you can apply for a mentor a the mentor program. Welcome to the project! <span style="">19:11, 11/28/2013