Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Second cause of death
Little thing I know, but wouldn't it appear better on the infobox if instead we put "Afterlife death"? Second cause of death imo just seems a little out of place, and would appear like they died, were brought back to life, and then died again. At least imo. thoughts? 03:15, 2/27/2019

I like where you're heading! What about spirit death? Ghobsmacka (talk) 05:38, February 27, 2019 (UTC)

You do have a point... although I'd like to keep "second cause of death" for Tigerheart/Tigerstar, just in case we happen to see whatever causes him to die for good. Other than that, I'd be up tweaking the infobox to display something other than "second cause of death", because the StarClan/Dark Forest cats are already dead.

I agree with that aspect. I honestly forgot about Tigerheart/star. But yeah, ghost cats dying is them already being dead so 18:30, 2/27/2019

sure yeah^^ Any other comments?

Yeah I think we should go with Spirit death, it explains it much more clearly.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:22, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

Trivia
So I had a question for the new character page layout, that there should be a limit on how much trivia is too much for the main article. Should we limit it to a set amount of bullet points? If so, I believe 10 would suffice. if there are more than 10, like Firestar for example, we'd move the trivia over onto [CharacterName/Trivia]. thoughts? 18:29, 2/27/2019

I think that despite the amount they should all stay together, where that would be, I have no imput on. Ghobsmacka (talk) 18:56, February 27, 2019 (UTC)

No I mean like, on Firestar's page, his trivia section is separate from the main article. I meant like that. Sorry I didn't clarify! Like how much would be considered a lot of trivia on the main article. 19:15, 2/27/2019

I feel like 8-10 is a good ballpark range. 20:07, February 27, 2019 (UTC)

8-10 seems like a good range to me on the main article itself; anything more than that, we can delegate to a subpage, I'd think. Because otherwise we'd be cherrypicking what counts as trivia and what doesn't (not that we don't already, but you see my point).

10ish sounds good^^

Any other comments?

10 sounds good, but I'm wondering about how we go about choosing which to list on the main page. Mistakes can be left out (unless their pretty significant, like the whole Mapleshade description thing) but what about interesting facts and author statements? How do we choose?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:25, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

there'd be none on the main page, the whole thing gets tabbed as is on Firestar already

Okay but we are condensing them down or just moving them to the trivia part? Because I think Firestar's fine how he is now.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:02, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

there's no condensation; we're just moving them.

Oh alright thanks for clearing that up. ^^Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:23, March 14, 2019 (UTC)

Family Tree Icons
To what extent should we use these for a cat's description? (sounds like an essay question not my intention lol) We've already used these for Swiftbreeze and such. Another question is what if they've been consistently depicted in a certain way? (for example, Tawnypelt being tortie-and-white in every artwork of her)

like it was said in the discord, it should be all or nothing really, unless it's specifically contradicted. it is technically an official source after all. 15:54, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

We don't merge manga descriptions with book ones, so how's that any different tbh? If we take icons, but won't merge published mangas, then we run into the same dilemma. And if we take colors from the official tree, then we should be matching the shades to them as well, because it's a visual source and not a written one, otherwise we get into the combining tons of partials range. Tawnypelt is a notable example, she's pale and mottled in the books, but definitely not so in her art. Imo, we should be taking the official art because it's so consistent in said case, but if we do then that has to be something we do for others too. The website has also picked up a habit of... copying our errors lmao, even though we fix them it's like an accordion effect, and so when it eventually gets fixed it'll be for moot rip

I agree not to merge the descriptions. It should be seen as an alt tbh <span style="">17:26, 3/03/2019

My question is... who are we to decide what does or doesn't count? The family trees are officially released content from Working Partners. Why should it be seen as an alt? Because it "contradicts written text"? Because in the cases of Tawnypelt and Shellpaw, at least, it doesn't contradict anything- it adds onto their current description and is in no way, shape, or form a contradiction. In Tawnypelt's case, both "pale" and "mottled" were used less than the amount of times she is depicted as a "darker" tortie-and-white. Given that the designs are used across various pieces of media (The Ultimate Guide, Cats of the Clans, Battles of the Clans, and the family tree), I feel we shouldn't be regarding that instance as a mistake.

I could see merging the descriptions if it does not contradict what we have. But, that in and of itself should only apply to when a character is actually addressed as said description. For Tawnypelt, that wouldn't be merging, as she is depicted as a tortie. For others, it might be considered combining two sources that have nothing to do with one another.

Mapleshade has a good example: she was said to have a white tail while she is called ginger-and-white. We cannot and should not combine that with her tortie-and-white description, because she was not called tortie-and-white in the book where the mention occurred. Most of these can be used in some way, like changing Swiftbreeze's coloring, but we need to look at them with a close eye and probably even in a case-by-case basis to some extent. They shouldn't be added without discussing it completely here, though.

I think I agree most with Troll. All or nothing.

I've been thinking for a bit of the family tree icons. If you look, I think it's supposed to represent their heads. Their shaped like cat's heads, the tabbies have the tabby pattern of a cat's head. So I'm not sure the description we take from them is supposed to be describing their heads or something (e.g. Tawnypelt has white on her head?)<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:29, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

Character Residence
I find it quite silly to list the characters' current affiliations as something that definitely isn't where they are, as they died ten books ago and just simply were never shown in Starclan or The Tribe of Endless Hunting. Take Snipkit and Jagged Rock Where Heron Sits for example, both are confirmed deceased and have a cause of death, but are still listed as currently in their original residence. If not putting them as Starclan members, I propose changing it to 'Unknown' or moving the old residence to 'former' and leaving the 'current' section empty.

Perhaps, if not that, we could add a seperate tab in the template and lable it 'last known residence', listing the clan or tribe under that instead of current.

Neither would be a very hard change and I believe either way would make the pages look much neater and, overall, easier to read and understand. It's just confusing to list them as deceased but still residing in their clan or tribe.

--Windy 15:58, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

I'd say just remove current. Simplest solution imo. <span style="">16:51 Sat Mar 2 2019

Honestly i have to agree. This would help with newer members trying to put them as in starclan when their residence is not confirmed. I think this is a great idea, just to have their past residences listed but with their "current" included in their past. For example someone like snipkit would include their birth clan in previous affiliations rather than current. <span style="">16:59, 3/02/2019

^^ for those with confirmed deaths, definitely. for those who just haven't appeared in forever (namely, DotC cats must be dead, logic dictates, and they definitely aren't still in a Clan); I also believe we could cite to the lifespan of a cat and say their current is unknown

I honestly dont know about that spooky. some new member would still come along and try to add that they're in starclan, just simply because theyve been gone for so long <span style="">17:22, 3/03/2019

Guilty as one of those new members, which is why I brought it up. But, good idea on the logics. There's no way Tallshadow, for example, could still be alive 18:08, March 5, 2019 (UTC)

Definitely not a huge fan of adding them as deceased or whatnot, regardless of how old they might be. I would be up for changing "current affiliation" to "last known affiliation" for those cats who we don't have those kinds of citations for, like Snipkit for example.

I'll have to agree on the death because there are two separate timelines with the arcs that are here and even if the DotC doesn't get a next one, we shouldn't assume they're dead but giving the deceased ones an unknown residence until their afterlife is actually confirmed would be good. 07:48, March 6, 2019 (UTC)

I like the idea of changing "current affiliation" to "last known affiliation", makes the most sense to me. Then once an afterlife residence is given, that can be added. 21:34, March 6, 2019 (UTC)

Alright cool, so confirmed dead cats get the last known; any other comments?

I agree with DotC cats have a 'last known affiliation', but cats confirmed dead I think it would be clearer to put theirs as 'Unknown', since we really do consider now being dead as another form of rank now. Since they cannot be SkyClan or Rogue or whatever now, they should be unknown.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:32, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

Unknown gender
Just a thought, but how about for characters who have a description and no gender, instead say, for example: Boulder is a gray tabby cat. instead of Boulder is a gray tabby cat with an unknown gender. honestly it just adds an unnecessary amount of text to the page when they already have the unknown gender category on their page <span style="">17:21, 3/03/2019

Hm I mean yeah, and it's kinda antiquated to use nowadays too, maybe wishful thinking but it might not be unknown, it could be 'none' if that's how a cat identified (rip authors probably never ever doing that, but still)

I want a nonbinary cat please. Anyways, yeah, we should probably just remove the "unknown gender" thing and just do what you suggested.

I'm already doing it with Minor characters because there are so many and it's just so much clutter. So I agree.

What about 'unknown descriptions'? Like, we have characters like Lowbranch where we know gender but not description, and it would look fine without adding the 'unknown description' part.

But then that brings up characters like Morningmist, what do we do with them? 'Morningmist is a cat'?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:35, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

Cause of death
Hey sorry for so many topics lmao but I just had a thought. Like what I've been doing on my wiki, I was thinking we could transfer it to this one! When cats are seen in StarClan it's obvious they're dead right? So what I was doign on my wiki was for cause of death, I was putting Unspecified causes. Just for more information. thoughts? <span style="">17:53, 3/03/2019

It's a good idea but unnecessary imo. I think it would also open up the pages to people guessing the causes whereas now at least editing the charcat is a barrier. <span style="">21:34 Wed Mar 6 2019

hmmm eh yeah I think it's okay as we have it

Yeah I like it but I don't think it would work. People would just start to try and guess and it adds more information that's not necessarily needed, and which some pages already have more than enough.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:37, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

Gold nominations
Couldn't put this just in PC because it affects all projects, but brought up changing the way we classify gold articles in ops; leaving a link since it affects here

Bluestar - pale?
Not putting this in cite removals because major character and all. However. We have a pale cite from CP in which, she's called just pale gray. But then, we have several mentions scattered throughout The Prophecies Begin and probably some more + BP and stuff. Mistystar, is cited to be specifically neither 'pale nor dark', and is just blue-gray. If they are so much like each other, shouldn't we be considering the pale cite a mistake? It wasn't a pale blue-gray cite either, just pale gray, and thus would be like combining silver and gray, because blue-gray is color, and combining partials etc.

Mistystar, Bluestar, and Stonefur have been said to look alike so many times, it makes no sense for Bluestar to be pale, when Mistystar has an author-cited base coloring. Having Bluestar and Stonefur as pale completely contradicts the million times that they're said to look so much alike. Make them all the same neutral blue-gray shade. It's pretty clear that's what they are, not this pale stuff.

Agreeing with Jayce^ 22:39, March 5, 2019 (UTC)

could the looking so much alike also mean their facial and bodily features? almost all the time im with my mom somewhere someone else mentions we look so much alike, but we physically are not <span style="">22:44, 3/05/2019

This is definitely not just referring to body features.

That definitely says their fur is identical. In my opinion the pale cite should be removed.

Any other comments?

I'm not sure. They are said to be pale so many times vs one author cite. I'm thinking they might all be pale (or maybe like a between pale and mid-coloured? Who knows ><)<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:43, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

Bluestar is only called pale once, and not in connection with blue-gray. It wasn't several times

I'm talking all of them. Stonefur and Bluestar were called pale. Even Mistystar too (although author cite cancels it). So it's kinda two cites vs one author cite, if you get what I mean.

Am I mistaken, or did we decide to go book cite over author cite? I swear Kate once said to do exactly that. Book is more canon over their word.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:23, March 12, 2019 (UTC)

In this case, we'd be using both, since Mistystar is the one with the confirmed author shade, but something from Fire and Ice confirms that all three of them are identical. Regardless, all three do need to match, as per something that's been around since the original arc.. regardless of what shade is chosen, they need to match. Even Bluestar's official artwork doesn't show her as pale, and that's also something to take into consideration.

It's not 1 author vs. 2 book;; as I'd linked in a folderfull of book screenshots, the identical cites, publishing wise, comes before CP's Bluestar and Stonefur pale ones. The pale cite is a partial that got slapped in, and there's evidence to contradict it on several fronts, and that's why I'm saying it needs to go^^

I do agree they need to be identical, it's just whether they have to be pale or not I'm confused about. How many times are they referred to as pale or not pale? I might have to make a list of that so I understand better.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:32, March 12, 2019 (UTC)

Pale gray and pale blue-gray aren't the same thing, though. It's combining descriptions that have nothing to do with one another. Just because a cat is called "pale gray" does not mean we can change a description to say "pale blue-gray"... It's not even really a partial, as I feel they're two totally different things. Gray is gray, blue-gray is not.

i feel like blue-grey is its own shade like pale grey and dark grey are. unless it says pale blue-grey or whatever, i dont think we should combine them. 21:46, March 12, 2019 (UTC)

Alright I did research of the first books in the timeline. Bluestar's pale shape cite can be disputed as she was next to the Moonstone. I can discount her pale gray as she and Crookedpaw has a whole conversation of she is actually blue. Stonefur is in the same sentence as Mistykit mistakenly saying dark gray, so we can debate whether cites like that can be counted. Lastly, Mistystar has a pale gray flanks which a cite disputed it? Can someone find a cite for that?

So yeah that's what I found. I can see if I can find more cites in more books. Just keep in mind Bluestar was also called gray (just gray) multiple times, so I don't think we can say it's a completely different colour.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  06:23, March 14, 2019 (UTC)

Join request
Hello... can I please join this project?

Added you in^^ Welcome, and make sure to read the guidelines!

Half Moon - Toggle SC
Based on Dawn of the Clans and Moth Flight's Vision, it seems like Half Moon is meant to be StarClan as well as Tribe of Endless Hunting, much like Feathertail. She should probably have a toggle for both on her page and her current affiliation to be both residencies as she is seen walking in both. I don't think her appearances in the last books of OotS are enough to confirm or deny that she is no longer a part of StarClan. <span style="">21:51 Wed Mar 13 2019

I don't think so. We don't have proof in OoTS that she moves between them. I think when the Tribe of Endless Hunting formed she joined them and left StarClan.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:25, March 14, 2019 (UTC)

Foster vs Adopt
We used the term 'foster', but I'm seeing both foster and adopt being used in the series, so I'm wondering if we should have both terms for our pages.

Foster and adopt are two different things. Foster is a temporary care, like Brokenstar with Lizardstripe for example, whereas adopt is for life, like how Thunderstar always sees Gray Wing as his father even when he is an adult. So I think we need to change some character pages from 'foster' to 'adopt' to reflect that.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:29, March 14, 2019 (UTC)