Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Kestrelflight
'Kay,this was brought up. This is whether Kestrelflight needs those mottled grey alts. The fact is he /is/ mottled grey, and it seems like a partial description, as he is brown-grey, and mottled, but the thing is, they don't always have to bring up the white splotches. Whatcha think? 07:45, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

It seems like a partial description to me. Yeah, they're wonderful images, but are they needed? I'm not entirely sure.

Ok, I might sound a little biased here, but partial descriptions are for cats like Hazeltail, being called gray when she is gray and white or a brown tabby being called brown. Gray-brown is a very destinct color, and to me, looks a lot different than gray or brown. Brook has had a gray-brown alt for who knows how long? And look at how different that color is from her pelt. Same with Kestrelflight. Those two images are very different in color. Now with the case of Bluestar and her offspring: blue-gray and gray are not very different. Blue-gray just has a slight blue tinge to it. Disagree if you will but I'm sticking by my original reasoning of providing that alternate image for him. 18:11, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Ack forgot to mention something. He hasn't been called gray-brown at all in the Omen of the Stars arc, whereas he was in the Power of Three arc. It sounds like a mistake to me. 18:19, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

I've gotta agree with Ivy on this one. Gray-brown is a completely different color from gray and brown. And those images look a lot different. 07:22, 10, 08, 2012

Yep, agreeing with Ivy and DJ. I believe that the images should stay, they do look a lot different from his main ones. 21:21, August 11, 2012 (UTC)

Gray-brown and gray aren't any different from blue-gray and gray though. The only thing that really puts it in question is the fact it also left out the white splotches.... But it seems like a partial to me. The images look different cause they're totally different styles, not cause they're extremely different descriptions. You should be looking at the difference between the descriptions, not the images. 06:49, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Paleh, my own cat, Hickory, has a gray-brown undercoat. That color alone looks so much different than any gray cat I've seen. 15:26, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Oooh, now that you mention Hickory, yeah.....they are kinda different... (I've seen that ball of fluff before x3)

Yeah and this looks quite different from this. You're missing the point, it's still not two shades. And again, this is still a partial. 00:28, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not seeing your point here. Bluestar was not given a blue alt, one for it not being far enough from gray (I'm still under the assumption that she is blue-gray in her official art) and that a cat simply cannot be pure blue. Hazeltail got her gray alt removed because she specifically has gray on her. The color on my cat, which I know to be brown-gray, looks totally different than any gray cat I've ever seen. Who knows, maybe Kestrelflight and Bird need to be darker? (the only brown-gray I've seen on cats is actually dark and I'm sticking by this unless you show me a picture of another brown-gray cat that is not dark.) I'm sorry if I'm being difficult and/or stubborn about this, but nothing has been presented to change my mindset. My apologies. 00:43, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure you're seeing my point here, but whatever. Anything I say will just be a repeat of what I've already said. And since neither of our opinions seem to be changing, how bout we just leave it at that and let the others put in their opinions? 00:59, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

I always thought grey-brown was something like this? http://www.iaza.com/work/120817C/iaza15955255639200.png Cause if it is, it doesn't seem like much of a difference. 07:09, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Well, Brook is a gray and brown tabby, but she got a solid alt for being referred to as brown-gray. On that logic, I think Kestrel's should stay as well 00:07, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Scar, you're kind of missing the point... We know brook has that alt, but we're discussion whether gray-brown and gray/brown are more than one shade apart (I still say they're not), and whether Kestrel's alt is a partial or not. We can't look at alts we've done in the past for this, technically, depending on what we decide, it will affect those too, so we can't judge based on them. 01:36, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Mentor Program
Hey guys! So as heads of the mentor program, me and Cloudy were discussing, and we've decided that the mentor program is long overdue for a revamp. It's quite disorganized and lot of things could work better. So I thought I'd post this here, get your guys' thoughts on it, and maybe get some input on others things that could be fixed up. So tell me your thoughts. :) Here are the things we're planning to work on;
 * Overall just a layout rework to make it more welcoming. I'll play around with different layouts, but right now it just kind of looks messy and unwelcoming.
 * Getting more on top of assigning mentors to the apprentice that nobody volunteers for. Perhaps we could allow all SWs to do that so the job doesn't have to be put on only 2 or 3 people's shoulders?
 * Requiring that when a mentor volunteers to take on an apprentice, that apprentice has to respond on the request within a certain time period (I was thinking maybe a week) to confirm that it's fine before the request is archived. If the apprentice fails to respond, then the request will be declined and the mentor will still have an open spot. I've seen multiple people take on an apprentice, only to not get an answer from them whenever they try and talk to them.
 * This is a big one that we need to really work on: Maybe it very clear that the mentoring program isn't there so you can make good personal images. It's there for people interested in PCA only. I've seen users get mentors just to do personal image requests and such and never do anything in PCA. Perhaps a notification at the top of the page, and some text linking to the apprentice tutorials, for those who aren't interested in PCA, right below the apprentice request heading would help.
 * Furthermore with that, if a user applies and gets a mentor, and later reveals they have no interest in PCA, I believe the mentor should have right to decline teaching them further, and simply link them to the apprentice tutorials for anymore help. This program really isn't here to teach people chararts for fun, and it simply takes up mentor's time if that's all the users use it for.
 * I'd like to encourage mentors to have set assessments worked out for their apprentices, so they can track their progress, and clearly state what's been done when the graduate. Hopefully this will prevent people from posting graduation request simply because they're either bored of teaching their apprentice, or their apprentice is bored of learning.
 * The table that's on the front page, listing the mentors and apprentices, would be good to put on the actual page for the mentor program. It'd make it easier for users who wish to request mentors to see who's available.
 * A discussion section on that page, perhaps right below the graduation requests, would be very helpful. It would allow for mentors to ask for help easily, or provide a place for apprentice to ask questions.
 * A discussion section would also allow for activity reports, so that if a mentor or apprentice goes inactive, it can be reported and either that apprentice can be assigned a new mentor, or the mentor will be released to take a more active apprentice.
 * Also related to activity, I'd like to suggest that if an apprentice goes inactive from PCA (even if they're still active with their mentor), then their mentor should be allowed to decline them further teaching till they're active again. As I've said before, this program is for PCA alone, and if a user's not active in PCA, what's the point?

Now I think that was all I planned to bring up..... I'll post later if I forgot anything. XD So what do you guys think? Thoughts? Ideas? Our ears are open for anything that'd make the mentor program better. 04:01, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

This page does need a huge revamp. I honestly don't have much ideas on how this would work, but I'll try. I agree on allowing all SW's to assign apprentices to mentors, as we can get things done more quickly. I discussion section would be very helpful, allowing apprentices and mentors to ask for help and clear confusion. I think there should also be some sort of requirements for graduating so mentors don't do it just because they can't be bothered teaching them anymore. And yes, we somehow need to get the point across that the mentor program is a PCA-purpose only. All those ideas are great Paleh, I agree. 10:12, 18, 08, 2012

Actually with my apprentices, I have this grading chart that allows them to grade themselves, and then I grade them. Rain bow   Fli  ght  14:17, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Great ideas, Paleh. I also agree with allowing SW's to assign apprentices to mentors, for sometimes I see those still waiting for a replies, so it would make it more efficient and it would get done faster. I also agree with DJ's idea, I think doing that would make the program even better. 17:02, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

I think this is an excellent idea and it could really have a good effect on the mentor program. I agree with all these ideas, and I also love the idea of having set requirements in order for a user to graduate. 17:06, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Fantastic ideas. I would like for the mentor program to be a working business again, like it was when it first started. Now we have users who requested mentors in June. We can't give them mentors anymore because none of them have edited since.. so.. Would we just get rid of their applications? 17:26, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

I like these ideas too. It'll make sure the Mentor Program is getting what it's worth. It'll be much more beneficial to PCA. A lot of the users applying for mentor's leave a request and than don't edit at all, this will clean it up probably. 17:51, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Oh another thing that I forgot to add, I think we should make it a rule that apprentice applications have to be filed correctly, otherwise they're automatically declined. Most people who've ever taken care of that page know what a pain it is when apprentices don't file their request properly, and you have to clean up after them. If they can't be bothered to read directly above for how they should do it, I think we should have full right to decline their request till they do.

And splook, yeah, for any inactive users, their requests will be declined. For those who are active on the wiki but no PCA, perhaps we could ask if they still want a mentor, and if they don't respond within a week, decline it. 21:07, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

I agree that if they don't fill out their application properly, we should decline it. It is annoying when so many users don't read the instrutions, so I agree on that. 02:09, 19, 08, 2012

I agree. Their application should be declined if they do not take the time to follow the instructions. Rain bow   Fli  ght  17:54, August 19, 2012 (UTC)

Everything's been said. I agree 100% with this. 06:37, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, so how do you guys think the assessments should work? Should we have a set of them that all users have to pass, or have set ones depending on what the apprentice requested to learn, or just let the mentor figure them out specifically for their apprentice, then post what they were at graduation? 11:01, August 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, I was thinking that we could have some sort of a more organized system of graduating and assessing combined. Maybe there could be some kind of approval process for final assessments so that apprentices could graduate. Should a mentor feel that the apprentice is ready for their final assessment, then the apprentice will make what art pieces are needed, and have those chararts go to some sort of approval process. If s/he passes, then they are ready for graduation. Dunno, but it's just an idea. 05:27, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe the assessments could have set standards. Like, in order to graduate, a user must make a solid cat with up to three comments on it. Dunno, that's a raw idea. 05:15, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

^^ Me likey xD Maybe, the mentor could get a task from another warrior/mentor for their apprentice to perform, and then judge it (like if Lapwing were an apprentice with a mentor. Her graduation assignment, given by Cloudy, was to make a tortie and white queen, and then it'd have to pass Cloudy's assessment, like be deemed at least 90% done or something. idk). 03:28, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm well problem with that is it'll only show whether or not the learned just one thing. Being able to do one thing doesn't necessarily mean they're ready to graduate. I kind of like the idea of having a set list of things the apprentice needs to accomplish and show their mentor to show they're ready to graduate. But that's just me. *shrugs* 17:17, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe instead of having a "final assement" as such (well, it still would be a final assement), the mentor could just ask the apprentice to make a set of different types of cats once they think that they're ready. The mentor could discuss with another mentor the improvements to be made and the percentage of completion. If they believe they are good enough images and if the apprentice has learned a lot since starting apprenticeship, they could gratuate. They'd have to fit into the requirements to graduate of course. Idk, just my thoughts. o-o 02:52, 08, 09, 2012

Hmm that may work, though I was thinking something a bit different. It's really up to you guys.

What I was more thinking, is having a list of things the apprentice has to learn/prove they can do throughout their training. Not just one thing at the end of their training. More like a list including patterns such as solid, tabby (may include tabby types if the mentor wishes), tortie, dappled/mottled, and so on. And also have them show that they can use the four main blanks well; Warrior, Apprentice, Kit, and Leader. So it could just be stuff they work on through their training and once they've completed the list and both mentor and apprentice are satisfied, the apprentice could graduate. I think we could trust the mentors to know well enough what's good enough quality to pass assessments without forcing them to check with another mentor. That could of course be allowed for those that are unsure, but I don't really think we need to make it something that's required.

So yeah, that's more how I was thinking it could go, but there's a lot of ways we could do it, and it's up to you guys. Maybe we could even put up a vote with the different systems for it if it gets down to it. *shrugs* 21:02, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Oh and another idea for the whole program in general, maybe, if the Join.Me thing gets more active, we could have mentors assign some sessions for the apprentices to go to if they need help in that area, as learning from a couple people, and a couple different techniques for it could be better than just learning from your mentor, who may not specialize in it or anything. The mentor and apprentice could just work out between the two of them which sessions would be good for the apprentice, and which they would be able to attend.

I don't know, just a thought. 21:06, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

I rather like the idea of having assignments for apprentices to work on, even if the assignment isn't what the apprentice originally requested to learn- they need to know how to work with most pelt types and the four main blanks. There's no getting around it, really.

I also agree that mentors don't have to check with other mentors to see if an image is good enough quality. If you approve the application, then the leads of the mentor program are proving that they trust in the mentor's abilities to teach, as well as their judgement when it comes to images. Of course, the option's always okay; if the mentor wishes for a second opinion, they should be granted one. But, if they don't want one, they shouldn't be forced to.

The Join.Me suggestion is also good. I like it. x3 21:25, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

This has been sitting her for a while. Have we come to a conclusion on how we're going to do the assessments? 03:21, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Mudfur Apprentice Charart
In Crookedstar's promis on page 374 I believe, when Mudfur decides not to be a warrior anymore, Hailstar says "But you're too young to be an elder. you didn't become a 'paw till after me." (or something close to that). Shouldn't he get an apprentice image, especially since Hailstar got on for that quote as well? 18:00, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Adding to this, wouldn't the two of them get kits as well? This pretty much implies that they were in the nursery together, or at least Mudfur, since he was definitely a kit. 02:19, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think Hailstar would get a kit, but Mudfur should definitely get a kit and apprentice. This line implies he was both. 03:39, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Just throwing this out there, Hailstar didn't get an apprentice image because of /that/ quote. The quote he /did/ get one from was when he said Birdsong had taken him hunting as a 'paw (or apprentice, I don't remember how it was phrased)... But, yeah, I think Breezey's right, since that /does/ imply he was a kit...as well as an apprentice.

Join Request
Heyo it's Snowfern wondering if I can join PCA. I enjoy making chararts and I'm good at critiquing art. I'm a SW in PCA on another wiki. Thanks for your consideration! 23:14, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

Sure you can! ;) Read our guidelines, apprentice tutorials and you can request a mentor at the mentor program. Have fun! -- 23:53, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

And the winners are...
Congratulations to Allari♥ and Dazzle~♪ for winning the second charart contest! I invite everyone to show them props for being awesome.

http://images.wikia.com/warriors/images/archive/9/96/20120829231011!Dazzlewing.request.png Dazzle's Pricklekit.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120908031760/warriors/images/6/60/Icefern50file.png Allari's Pricklekit.

Way to go, both of you! 00:49, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Softpaw Vote Conclusion
The vote for the Softpaw artist has been concluded and a huge congradulation to Ivystripe for winning the vote! Her blanks will be made into the Softpaw blanks. Well done, Ivy! 01:33, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Medicine Cat Apprentices
Alright well I actually should have posted this here in the first place rather than PC, but I derped. So here we go.

I think MCAs that have gone through their medicine cat ceremony should get full medicine cat images. They've had their full medicine cat names listed on their pages in the charcats for a while. We also have plenty enough proof in my opinion that after that ceremony, they are full medicine cats, even if they have mentors until their mentor retires or dies. (see the Medicine cat page for the cites)

Now of course name should not be an indicator alone for whether an MCA has become a full medicine cat, as they can become MCAs after getting their warrior names, however we shouldn't have to worry about this. All the MCAs that would get full medicine cat images from this have gone through their full ceremonies so there would be no question on them.

So thoughts? 23:03, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

I have been wondering about this for a while, actually.... But even though they have gotten their full Medicine Cat names, I disagree with them getting full Medicine Cat blanks. I believe they should stick to what the Clan sees them as, which is still apprentices. 19:51, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

They aren't still apprentices though. They completed their training, and despite having a mentor till their mentor dies or retires, they're full medicine cats after the ceremony. And we've had the names listed there for a while, so why should they not get images if the names were already listed? 20:04, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. Though, technically, they'd still be learning, (like spur of the moment stuff) I think it'd count. 23:30, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Even if they are still learning, so are young warriors. I think this sounds fine. 01:44, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

I suppose... I kind of see what you mean now, Paleh. I'm all for it. ^^ 22:06, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Agreeing, they are full medicine cats and have completed their training, so I'm all for it. ~00:42, 22, 09, 2012~

Re-join Request - Rainfacestar
So, if rumor's have yet to find you, I have returned to WWiki and I plan to get back on this project. So, I ask you know, can I re-join the project? Also, if you'd like to see one of my practice chararts, I shall make one for you now, and you shall see that I have not lost my touch. Please think about this :) Raineh  Has returned :D  21:47, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Don't worry, of course we'll allow you back in! =D And I believe that you will be allowed to be a warrior again, since you already have some images approved. ^^ Oh, and just in case you have forgot anything, feel free to visit our guidelines, apprentice tutorials, or the mentor program. :)  22:04, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Golden/Sandy
Please forgive me if this topic has been brought up before. In Mistystar's Omen, Mothwing was mentioned with a sandy pelt. Personally, I thought that golden and sandy were different enough that this could qualify for an alt., but I wanted to get the opinions of others first. Comments? 19:47, September 24, 2012 (UTC)

Nope. In cats at least, golden and sandy are more or less the same thing. 23:08, September 24, 2012 (UTC)

Sandy would be like light ginger or a tabby cream cat, such as Sandstorm. It's different but I don't think it's two shades. 18:56, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

Golden is light ginger, or gingerish creamy. It's the same as sandy. Not a little bit, it's just a specification on the shade of golden. It's not different at all. 03:20, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Lionblaze and Firestar
This has been bothering me awhile and I can't remember ever bringing it up, but I don't think that Firestar should have his golden alt, and Lionblaze shouldn't have his orange one. Gold and orange/ginger are not more than two shades apart, if they can even be considered one shade apart. It seems too close to the same color for them to be considered enough to warrant an alt. I'm not saying that this means we need to make all our golden cats more ginger, or our ginger cats golden - I just think that if a golden cat is called ginger or a ginger cat golden it should not warrant an alt. 23:31, September 24, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, they're definitely not two shades apart. It's been bugging me too. However Firestar's specifically bright ginger, which maaaaay be two shades. I'm not sure. But Lionblaze definitely shouldn't have his alt. 18:16, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think so. It's basically add a little bit of yellow to his pelt and he'd be golden. It's even less of a difference than just plain ginger and gold. 03:41, September 26, 2012 (UTC)