Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

A Gentle Reminder
Any mentors out there who have a spot and free time to take on an apprentice should go check out the poor, starving apprentices who would like your attention :3 And a note to the leader and deputy: if you see that an apprentice's request for a mentor has gone a while without anybody volunteering, you should ask a mentor if they are willing to take on an apprentice, and if they acquiesce, approve it. Thanks guys. 07:44 Sun Jan 22

An Ultimate Guide to Patterns
Hey guys, just thought I'd share this amazing source of colors and patterns on cats I found. :3 Go here to see it. I think it's incredible, and if you're as obsessed with realism as me, it's really helpful. Enjoy! (and possibly post your own sources of cat patterns, you know, if you want) 22:00, January 23, 2012 (UTC)

By the way~ Download to see it full size. 22:01, January 23, 2012 (UTC)

This has been put up like three times I'm suprised people don't use it! It really helps me. 00:57, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

OMG, that is an epic picture. And a helpful one too. 01:51, Tue, Jan, 24, 2012

It helps me very much! Thanks for showing! 04:17, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

Rock
Hey, I was wondering if we should tweak Rock's image. The head doesn't really look much like a sphynx maybe we could give him a jaw line or something, I don't know. What do you guys think? 02:04, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, well as someone stated to me on dA once, it was never confirmed that Rock's a Sphynx cat. Just that's he's hairless, and that apparently cause he's ancient. He has tufts of fur, so I'm assuming he had it before. Sphynx is just the only cat we know to be hairless, but maybe he's not. So for now, I'd say no, probably not, but that's just me. Feel free to disagree.  Pale Legs   ♪Be prepared...♪  02:50, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

{C Without whiskers and cheek fur, I'm pretty sure a cat would have a triangular head like that. I always thought it was the fur that gave their heads that round look. Breeze whisker  03:09, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

Agreeing with Paleh. Cats have different face shapes and he said once that he wasn't so ugly, so I imagine that he was not born a spynx cat. If I recall correctly, there was another hairless breed called the Mexican hairless but it became extinct, he could have been one of those as well with a different face shape. 03:11, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

I think it was written to mean that he was underground causeing him to lose his hair. 22:26, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

And if he was a spynx cat, the only possible sources of fur, would be the bridge of the nose, tips of the ears, and I forget, but I think tail tip too. 01:12, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

For the record, theoretically any cat with at least on ancestor with the hairless gene could be hairless. But frankly, I don't see him a sphynx for a few reasons. The first being that he has the tufts of hair as mentioned above. Secondly, he was never described as having any actual oriental-type charactaristics (such as very long legs or extremely large ears) that couldn't be explained as a result of his baldness. I've personally seen him as either loosing the hair due to age (not uncommon, their are a number of adreanal conditions that can cause it that come with age) or something external like mange. 15:17, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Userbox
I was thinking, we have the "this user is a mentor of Project Character Art," but could we have a userbox that says "This user was mentored by USERNAME in Project Character Art." Or "This user has mentored USERNAME in Project Character Art." Something like that, and of course, USERNAME is replaced with the like of the username, linked. Thought about that? 06:36, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

That's what I originally wanted it to be, but I guess Icy misunderstood. I don't know how to change it though... XD If anyone knows how, I agree that we should. I fail at coding. :P  Pale  Legs   ♪Be prepared...♪  08:25, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

I have some thing like that on my userpage I just need to know the template page or I could just put the coding up here... first tell me what you think its under 'Other Userboxes' 22:24, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

It's alright Wildfire, I already got it planned before I posted this. How's this one that I posted right there? <<< -- 01:01, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Mine is just like that! xD Except it says "This user was mentored by the awesomest mentor ever" 02:14, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Really? I didn't see it on your page. O___O XD And another one could say "This user mentored USERNAME." If we decide to make one like that, can you make one like that Wildfire? 02:17, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Sure! We also might want to make alts. that say "This user is mentoring USERNAME" and "This user is being mentored by USERNAME" or something that last one seems long 15:35, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

I would think so. 16:11, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. :) 23:22, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. 06:19, Thu, Jan, 26, 2012

Tweak Page
Hey I was wondering if we could make the tweak page limit a little bigger because the list is super long and I think it would move faster, maybe just by a few like change it to 30-35. 22:56, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm... Perhaps, but maybe when our PCA approval page limit goes down back to normal?... 00:35, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

But we will be doing the loner blanks too. 01:52, Mon, Jan, 30, 2012

Ashfoot
Would she get an alternate for her appearance in A Clan in Need? She's shown as dark grey with black flecks on page 21. 04:41, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Is there confirmation on the page that it's her? If so, go for it. 04:44, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Well, she swoops down on Crowkit and says, "There you are! Thank StarClan you're safe!" Crowkit doesn't seem too pleased with this, indicating he doesn't want to be babied by his mother. Seems good enough for me. 04:49, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know. If they don't name her, it could just be another queen. 04:54, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

I seriously doubt that. See here, then go down to page 21. That couldn't be anyone else other than his mother. 04:58, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Crap, never mind, I think that's Mudclaw. Just don't mind me, I fail. 05:07, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

She seems very motherly to him. I say it's her. Also, I noticed Scourge has a torn ear. I think we should add that to his image already being tweaked. 05:08, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Nah, it's Mudclaw, I'm very sure, although I don't know when he became a she-cat. As for Scourge, reference? 05:09, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Haha, it's easy to get confused when Mudclaw starts acting matronly. 05:11, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Page 10 of Shattered Peace (I think it's page 10, some of them don't have numbers so...XD If not it's the beginning part with Scourge telling his cats to hurt Violet)  17:34, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Don't you mean A Clan in Need? :3 Because Scourge is on page 10 of that book. About the torn ear, I don't know if that counts since it's from the manga, and he's not shown with it anywhere else. Thoughts? 00:32, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Well is he shown with it when he's an adult in The Rise of Scourge? If not, no, it shouldn't be added. But it he is, then that'd bean he's consistently shown with one and it should be added. 04:35, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, I don't have it. Anyone? 12:15, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Silverstream and Feathertail
I'm of the opinion that Silverstream and Feathertail's chararts should be redone as they appear to be Y-tabbies, a pattern I thought we began to discourage a long time ago. I thought I ought to get the opinion of the project before adding them to the tweak week list, though. 15:06, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's only a Y tabby if all of their stripes are Ys, so I'm saying no. 18:03, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Moon's right. Though not all the stripes have to be Y's to be a Y tabby, most of them do. As far as I can see, only about two are on them. Other cats have one or two Y stripes on them, but aren't Y tabbies. It's actually natural for cats to have a couple. And I never really understood this, did we decided that all the Y tabbies were being redone? When I asked a while back, I got no as an answer, that we were just discouraging them, yet only some of them got redone... 22:14, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

I was also under the impression that we were just redoing the triangle tabbies. What's wrong with a Y tabby? 02:12, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

I've never actually seen a y tabby. Only cats with a few y shaped stripes, but otherwise, I don't even know if it's possible... but then again, I've never really paid attention to cat patterns. =P Maybe if someone could give me a link/picture to a y tabby cat. 06:42, Thu, Jan, 26, 2012

There's no such thing. The closest you come to it is a mackeral tabby, such as this guy. If you looks, he does have a few y-shaped stripes. I still think that those two have awkward patterns, but I won't make a fuss over it. I concede that they need no tweaking, then. 06:51, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

They could always have a few mackeral stripes tweaked into their fur, actually, and I don't think that'd bother us any. We could do that for any Y tabby we find, just connect a few stripes, add a few stripes radiating from the spine...ta-dah, now it's realistic! 17:17, January 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree. 01:43, Sun, Jan, 29, 2012

Brightheart, Graystripe, and Squirrelpaw
In The Lost Warrior Brightheart is shown as a light tortie with out her torn ears and her eye just looks closed, Graystripe has five toes pg.13, and Squirrelpaw is a tabby without her white paw, and Thornclaw, Rainwhisker, and Brambleclaw appear to be solid. Which of these should get alts? 15:57, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

And Bramble has short fur 15:59, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Well Brightheart already has a tortie alt, Graystripe wouldn't get one for having an extra toe, Squirrelflight is already automatically a tabby cause she's ginger and wouldn't get one for something as small as not having her white paw, Rainwhisker is already solid, but I don't know about Thornclaw and Brambleclaw. If they're very clearly solid then maybe, but it is could be questioned whether or not they're solid, probably not. And Bramble wouldn't get an alt just for a fur length change, but if he is solid after all, then the alt would be made short furred. 16:09, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Also, I'm really not sure about this but should Graystripe get a leader image he was in charge while Firestar was gone (looking for SkyClan) I'm pretty sure he wouldn't but just making sure. 19:04, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Graystripe was never a leader. He was never Graystar, never even acted as leader, only as deputy. I remember that he refused to when Firestar left, and he probably would have continued to do so for several years if Firestar never returned, at least until forced to take over. 19:09, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Okay and Ravenpaw, would he get one for his mis-coloring and would Barley get a collar on his rogue/kit version for being in BloodClan when he was a kit. 20:00, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

We already decided no on Ravenpaw, it's too minor of a change. And as far as I've seen, Barley wasn't shown with a collar, even when in BloodClan, so no. 22:06, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

I didn't think it mattered, I thought all Bloodclan Cats get collars. And would Thornclaw be a solid gray or golden? 23:05, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Nope. He was shown specifically without a collar from what I've seen, so he wouldn't get one. And from what we've done in the past, solid golden. But you need to cite it, remember. 23:21, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, Graystripe acted as leader in SkyClan's Destiny. 00:32, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, wait, is that what you were talking about? If so, nevermind. =3 00:33, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Well...he acted as leader...he wasn't really an official leader... 00:40, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

No, he acted as a deputy with an absent leader. He was not leader. 00:42, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Ok thanks 01:22, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

The non-alt worthy things you said back up there would just go in the trivia of their pages I'd think. 06:49, Thu, Jan, 26, 2012

Have we come to a conclusion on this discussion? 21:31, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Shortening the Reservation Time
Just a thought that's been bothering me for a while. What would you all think of shortening the reservation period on the table from 2 weeks to 1, because, even the newest apprentice shouldn't take two weeks to put a charart up for approval, and if it does take them that long, it might be best for them to practice on their own before taking on a charart for PCA. Thoughts? Comments? 01:27, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds perfect to me. I agree completely; if you take more than a week you're just plain procrastinating. 01:31, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good. 01:32, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. 02:08, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. 02:09, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me. ^.^ 02:10, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Sure  02:12, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Fine by me. 02:13, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. It annoys me when somebody grabs a good character and then waits that long to put it up. If you're gonna reserve something, you should have the ability to put it up quickly. Breeze whisker  03:12, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good. :) 03:12, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. This sounds great. 03:14, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Perfect :3 03:17, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree to. A perfect time. I don't even reserve images, only when I upload them (I make sure no one else has first) 06:56, Thu, Jan, 26, 2012

Good idea. I agree. ♫Purplemoon♪  Chinese New Year! Year of the Dragons!  12:25, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

If we're all in agreement, I'll go change the guideline page. 16:08, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree but sometimes there isn't any room. (There is now but not for tweaking) What do we do then 22:37, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

I've always wondered about that too, ever since I learned about the rule. But the way I see it, if the page is full, nobody can take if from you anyways, so as long as you post it as soon as there's space, you should be fine. Though honestly it doesn't seem completely fair, I agree, I don't know how we could change that. And ideas guys? 23:14, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. But if someone can't put it up because the page is full wouldn't be fair. We can't help it if the page is full. :/ 23:52 Thu Jan 26

I'd say if the page (new art, tweak page, or both) have had a lack of space, a user cannot take over their project for a longer amount of time because come on, if there is one spot open and someone immediately takes it, they didn't have a fair chance to upload their picture, now did they? 06:43, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Come on guys, we're not a bunch of monkeys unable of communicating. If someone takes your reservation and you have the image done, just post on their talk page and explain to them that you're waiting for the approval page to free up. If they don't comply (which they should, it's common courtesy), just explain your situation to a senior member and we'll be able to take care of it. However, if you don't have the image done after a week, please don't try and get away with telling someone there's no room. That's just plain lying. 17:33, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not fussed over this, I don't reserve chararts, just when I find a space and I have a free project I do it! The Approval page isn't that full anyway, even with the normal limit. 02:27, Sat, Jan, 28, 2012

Millie
I was wondering, would Millie get an apprentice version? Graystripe was techincally her mentor, kinda. I don't know. 06:39, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think so, because she seemed as a kittypet/warrior throughout and all Graystripe did was teach her the basic moves, like dodging and swiping, ect...Evenly so, Graystripe is listed as her unofficial mentor. So, no, I don't think so. =) 11:42, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm I'm not completely sure. But if she did, that would mean a few other cats would have to get apprentice chararts I believe, including Snowkit. 15:00, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Really, if that were the case then Daisy would get one for Cloudtail's attempts at training her and... that useless lump of fur doesn't deserve one... I'd say no. She was a kittypet training, not a warrior. Graystripe was technically a loner at the time, so there's that. 15:04, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

And Millie was Graystripe's unoffical apprentice. Says so on his page 22:55, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm alright, that makes sense. just curious :3 01:22, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Vote Passed
The screening process vote has passed. This means: The chart showing how complete an image is can be found here. 04:00, January 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * All new members will initially be kits, but will be promoted to apprentice as soon as they upload an image that is 50% complete.
 * Users that remain kits for one month may be asked to take mentors to help improve themselves.
 * All members of the project will be expected to have images at least 80% done when said images are uploaded for approval, or two senior members of the project will be allowed to, upon agreement, automatically decline the image.
 * If an image is at least 50% complete, it is to be given a week to improve itself to 80% completion before being auto-declined.
 * An image posted by a kit should be marked as "for evaluation" instead of "for approval" so that senior members can more easily find them.
 * Senior members are expected to remain courteous and polite when auto-declining an image, as always.
 * If the auto-decline of an image is under conflict, the deputy and leader of PCA must agree on an outcome together. If the deputy and leader cannot come to an agreement, a staff member of the wiki not involved in PCA may be contacted to resolve the conflict.

Does that mean that pictures submitted by said kits should go ahead and be marked as for evaluation, or are they grandparented and only new images undergo this process? 04:47, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

They're grandparented. I didn't think it'd be fair to have the rule be retroactive. Whoever is an apprentice right now is still an apprentice. 04:49, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Good Job!
Haha, just pointing out one thing: counting the images on the approval page, we've officially gone through every apprentice image on the category pages! Way to go, guys, I knew we'd do this quickly. 04:45, January 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Is celebrating!* Woo hoo! 01:38, Sun, Jan, 29, 2012

Kit Question (If not, proposal)
I was looking at the main page and noticed we now have our kit section. I was wondering, maybe, if an apprentice hasn't had any images approved (I dunno if it should be just if they haven't done it on their own or not) they should be a kit? Like say I didn't have any images approved I would be a kit, even though I joined as an apprentice. I'm not sure if it's in the forum or vote. (If it is than I'm dumb) Thanks, 19:31 Sat Jan 28

That's not a dumb question. I noticed that too. I think they would. 19:33, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Never said it was a dumb question. :P But it's not fair to the kits who have no images approved, and their's apprentices with none approved, but their still apprentices. I think it would be more fair. <span style="">19:40 Sat Jan 28

Deeerrrp I meant you're not dumb. I didn't see it either XP *dies of dyslexia* 19:46, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Shelly already said that everyone is grandparented under the new rule as it is not fair, but if my thinking is correct, if they are removed for inactivity and come back, they are now of the kit rank if they haven't had anything accepted yet. 22:01, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Ok. Thanks Ivy! :D <span style="">22:05 Sat Jan 28

Reserving Loners
Everyone, a small reminder. Please do not reserve any loner chararts until the blanks are approved, just as we did with the apprentice chararts. Any reservatiosn made before the blanks are approved will be removed. 20:21, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Okay! Thanks for the update, Shelly. 20:22, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Will we still be allowed to have 2 chararts for approval if we only have 1 tweak? And will OA get first choice? 21:23, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Okay! <span style="">21:40 Sun Jan 29

Wild, OAs didn't really get first choice last time, so I'd say no. And I'm guessing yes to the two at a time thing. But I may be wrong, since there's significantly less loners than apprentices. 21:44, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

To the 2 at a time thing, I think a member should only be allowed one so most people get a chance with the new blanks. 21:47, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Me too. It'd be more fair. <span style="">21:50 Sun Jan 29

One sounds best to me as well. As I said, there aren't as many loners to be had. 21:51, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. 21:53, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

I have a question, and I'm really embarrassed because I'm a SM and I should know this, but are we allowed to have two tweaks up and reserve a loner? I just really want Fleck since I'm the OA and I don't think my tweaks will be approved by then. If not then I'll understand and just have to hope  01:07, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Also... are we putting loners on the tweak page or the approval page? Now that we are putting noob questions out there XD <span style="">01:56 Mon Jan 30

If they did go on the tweak page then someone could do two at a time. I thoungt we only wanted one loner per user at a time. 02:00, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Your logic is logical, Mounty <3 <span style="">02:02 Mon Jan 30

Pssh I have no logic x.x Since the screening process got passed, this would be an opportunity for kits to become apprentices. So I think it would be one the approval page and only one loner per person at a time *stops babbling* 02:08, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

On the case of this subject, soemone needs to update the shadign placement on the apprentice tutorials, and possibly the eye picture. <span style="">02:09, Mon, Jan, 30, 2012

Shoddy! <span style="">02:15 Mon Jan 30

Well, the shading placement at least :3 someone else can do the eyes. <span style="">02:25 Mon Jan 30

I'll do the eyes. 02:27, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

I meant one loner but if we have two tweaks on the approval page already could we do a loner? This would be a normal project just like the apprentices 02:52, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Shading placement is done. I dunno, Ivy D: <span style="">02:55 Mon Jan 30

So many questions.... X.X Well, here goes; We're gonna go back to 1 image per person, as there's not as many loners we should be fine. No, we're not doing the whole OAs have dibs thing unless the majority of the project disagrees, in which case we'll open up a discussion. But for now, no. Having one loner image and two tweaks would definitely speed things up a bit, so we'll do that while the loners are being done, but you have to be doing 1 loner image to be able to have 3 projects up, just as we did with the apprentices. I believe that's everything. If I missed a questions please point it out since there's so many. XD 03:29, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Just a thought about the number of images up for approval, we might as well stick with being able to have two for approval, since this is the last lineart being redone, so we might as well get them done fast. Just a thought. (NOTE:Scarlet is in a tired and somewhat obscured mood...) 05:02, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

I guess it doesn't really matter. Since there's less loners than apprentices I don't this people will be fighting for space like last time. 05:23, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Just wondering: why do we want to get them done fast? Are we in some sort of hurry? We might as well let as many different people do images. For example, if one person got two image as opposed to one, that's half the images for anyone else. So the images that, if we only got one, could (example only) satisfy myself, Paleh, Scarletwind, and Shelly, but if we got two, could only satisfy myself and Paleh. Multiply that by... I don't know, twenty? and you'd have a lot less people doing a lot more images. Kind of like an Occupy deal, if you will, except with charart instead of money xD Do I make any sense or am I just rambling about nothingness? 05:37, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

It may not be the last blank Scarlet, we haven't decided for sure if we' keeping the rogues or not, have we? It's just been put off for a long time. XD And yes, Oblivion, that makes sense. And it evens out to work between people so one person doesn't have as much work. I think we should stick with 1 per person, but that's just me. 07:00, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, Im not going to make any loner...all will be snatched, anyway, good luck. 17:32, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Jacques/ Willowshine images
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"> In Twilight, page 193 (at about the middle of the page) It says Jacques's eyes are yellow, but the eyes in his CharArt are green, and his description doesn't say anything.

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"> "She was smaller than he had imagined. Her body was sleek and lithe, and her tabby markings were hardly more than delicate stripes along her pelt." The Sight, Page 268. In her art they are thicker and darker.Emberstarfireclan 12:47, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"> These two need to be changed a bit.Emberstarfireclan 14:27, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"> I checked Twilight, and Jacques should be changed. But delicate I don't think means that her stripes are thin and light. 14:38, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"> If you have citable proof about eye color be wrong, you are allowed to save the image, open it in your program of choice, change it and upload it, no problem. No need to ask. 17:30, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"> Just change the eye color, and as for Willowshine, I think it might mean her stripes aren't very sharp edged, and are maybe a bit fancy in style. <span style="">07:20, Tue, Jan, 31, 2012

Back (for a bit, at least)
Seeing as my mom told me the lab work is late next month, I've figured that 'til that lab work comes into play, I should be good to stay in PCA. :3 19:51, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Yes! My Twit is back! *huggles* 19:53, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Yay! Welcome back Twi! <span style="">07:05, Tue, Jan, 31, 2012

Idea?
I've been think about this for a while. My idea is that for the cats who don't have images maybe we could just put a blank that the are for their image. Like for example Willowstar we could put up a long haired female blank, since we know she is a female and also since we decided that all RiverClan cats would be long haired except for one who are mentioned with short hair. But for ones which we don't even know the gender of, this wouldn't work....So what do you think? 18:12, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

I was thinking we could color them a dark color with a large question mark on them. I've always thought about that but never remembered to ask XD So thanks for reminding me 18:16, January 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha =P no prob. 18:19, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

I actually really like that idea, Ivystripe, it would give the boring blank pages some more spice. =3 00:18, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I had the same idea with Ivy, but we leave them blank with a big fat red neon big fat question mark. 00:20, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I really like that idea too Ivy. :) Maybe after the loners are done we can make a default charart filled in with black with a question mark, then just put that on all the pages. I think that'd be a great idea! 00:25, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, and we would use the rank they are in, right? 00:30, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I would think...Could I maybe make it? Unless Ivy you want to....xD 00:29, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I wanna make one! Can we fill it with, dark gray so we can see the lineart? 00:40, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I wanna make one too! :3 00:45, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Dibs on to-be... 00:46, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Can I do one? 00:48, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I call kittypets... 00:49, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I want one too. :) 00:50, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Uhh, usually I'm all for this stuff, but I... really think this is a bad idea. The noimage image is fine. It fits the theme of the website and conveys the fact that we don't know what the cat looks like. We already stretch how mayny cats get an image (frankly, knowing that a cat is tabby isn't grounds to give them an image in my opinion, but I won't protest that since I've used the rule myself). I think this would be taking it too far. 00:51, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with Shelly. The noimage works just fine. 00:57, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

But Shelly, it's not like a new question mark blank will be made for each cat, just make one for each rank, then paste it in as the noimage. I've always thought the noimage thing made them look empty, and this will just be like a more fitting and prettier noimage. 00:59, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. It makes the pages more interesting. I'll do the Warrior blank (if we're doing dibs for them). Just a question, would we fill in the eye color and nosepink? An example of Willowstar as Cinder said up there, is. <span style="">01:19, Wed, Feb, 1, 2012

agreed with Shellyward. Honestly, it's fine. 01:22, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

The thing is, Paleh, it aint broke. There's no need to fix it. And a cat with a big question mark on it? That sounds far from pretty to me. The noimage image was made specifically for this purpose. Anyone that can read can see what rank a cat is. I don't see a point in putting in an image when we've no clue what a cat looks like. Heck, most of the time we have no real confirmation as to the rank of the cat in any case. 01:37, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm gonna agree with Shelly on this one. The noimage image fit the theme of the website and looks more professional then any blank with a large, neon question mark over it. The noimage image looks fine. 01:45, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Shelly. It's a fine idea, but it seems unnecessary and it'd be a hassle. The current no image looks just fine. Breeze whisker  04:31, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I gotta agree with Shelly and Breeze. There really isn't any point to make another image, since we already have a "no image" image. 05:40, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Thinking it over again, I think I see your guys' point, and agree. The noimage will be fine, despite the fact I don't really like how empty it makes the pages look. :P 07:12, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Since it seems almost everyone decided against the suggestion (no offense, because it's a good idea), this will be archived unless someone else has something to say. 21:28, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Leaving...for a bit
I'm sorry you guys! But life has been really stressfull and...well look at my userpage for more stuff! Just know that I'm still HERE! Please don't take me off. I might be able to come back on before May, if I don't get in trouble. Just...save something for me? Approve some stuff? Maybe make somebody a warrior? I don't know now xD I'm just saying random stuff know. Now good bye for now! Love you all! For Spartaaaa! Sandy   I think   Daddy's   my slave! 17:10, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Aww. Bye Sand! Good luck in life! Can't wait to see you back on the wiki! <span style="">17:17 Wed Feb 1

See ya later, Sand. Since you've already gotten images approved, when you come back (if you're removed for being inactive), then you'll be added back in and everything'll be just like before you left. 18:46, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Aww ;.; Baaayeeh Squishee my doggy. Come back real soon! 22:43, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Bye! Come back soon! 02:12, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Bai Sand! Hope to see you soon! :( <span style="">05:42, Thu, Feb, 2, 2012

By Sandstorm! We'll miss you, and best wishes in life! 00:09, February 3, 2012 (UTC) Shadewing

A solution to the Squirrelflight Conundrum
Hey guys. I've been thinking about the queens... again. And I've been talking with some friends about them. And I was specifically thinking of Squirrelflight.

Even though Squirrelflight clearly held the queen rank, we've withheld any queen charart for her based on the fact that the charart shows a pregnant cat. However, there's a simple fix to this: simply edit out the pregnant belly. It's a simple lineart adjustment, really. Fact of the matter is, since she actually held the rank, she should get the charart.

And, I know I might sound like a hypocrit for saying this, since I was the one to propose the vote that got the queen rule passed, but I think that any non-clan cat (plus Leafpool and Yellowfang) should not have a queen charart, per se, but should have an altered charart of the rank they held when they were pregnant. Agan, a simple fix, just edit in a pregnant belly. In the end, they can't be called queens if they didn't hold the rank or aren't in the Clans. All the other cats that got queen chararts for being mentioned as having had kits would be fine, since it's likely they were queens, but say Nutmeg for instance. Nutmeg would just get a pregnant looking queen Kittypet (derp) charart.

How's this sound to everyone? 22:22, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea. ♫Purplemoon♪  Happy Valentine's Day! Chocolate, please?  22:24, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah this sounds good. 22:27, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

I quite like this idea. Nice suggestion, Shelly~ 22:28, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Wondering about what the file names would be.... File:Leafpool.mc.pregnant.png? Or would we just go with alt like we do with injuries? 22:32, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

I would think an alt, but if you guys disagree, it can be the other one. ♫Purplemoon♪  Happy Valentine's Day! Chocolate, please?  22:34, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Wonderful idea, Shelly! You get my support~! 22:42, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

I took the liberty of preparing a couple of potential linearts. The first is what could be Squirrelflight's queen image, robbed of the extra fat stomach and fat flaps. The other is a potential pregnant medcat, Leafpool. How's that?

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/warriors/images/archive/2/2f/20120202234423!Shellyheart.png

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/warriors/images/archive/2/2f/20120202234416!Shellyheart.png

23:46, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

These are wonderful ^^ I think an alt would be fine since Longtail's blind warrior is an alt. Would Squirrelflight's file still be called queen? 23:53, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Yup. It's a rank, not a way of life (though Daisy and Ferncloud would disagree). And I think that the not-pregnant blank could be used for Daisy and Ferncloud as well, by the way! (oh, I'm full of good ideas) Anyway... (reserves Squirrelflight just in case). Can I do this please? 23:58, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see why not. 00:03, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I'm in support of this too. 00:10, February 3, 2012 (UTC) Shadewing

I completely support the non-pregnant queen thing, but, though I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean about the pregnant kittypet and MC chararts, from what I do understand, I think those are unnecessary, as we already have images for all of them showing they were pregnant. However I do love the idea of having a tweaked queen image. :) 00:31, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Well, its' jsut that "queen" is a rank that is held, not just a pregnant cat. And it wasn't held by Leafpool or Yellowfang or any non-Clan cat. Thus my "pregnant alts" solution. 00:33, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

But we went to a vote on it, and I still think the queen images fit just fine to show all the cats who have been mothers. There's no reason to change something that's not broken, especially after we already made the images. It's a nice thought, it just doesn't seem really necessarily is all. 00:49, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to have to agree with Paleh. It's unnecessary. 03:04, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Shelly. I like the idea of a tweaked queen charart, as it shows they wern't pregnant. I also like the idea of a tweaked blank showing that they were pregnant at the time. As Shelly said, it's a rank, not a pregnancy image. <span style="">04:55, Fri, Feb, 3, 2012

I was wrong in the queen vote, at least in part. We should respect the fact that being a queen is a Clan rank. You know I'm not doing this for any personal reason except concern for the project: all but two of my queen image would be deleted and replace in these circumstances. 05:01, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of the unpregnant Squirrelflight, but I'm not so keen on modifying charart for a pregnant cat not in the Clans. Queen is a general term for a female cat, both in real life and the Warrior's world. I do not think it is necessarily a rank in only the Clans. That's like saying kits out of the Clan should get different chararts. Breeze whisker  05:26, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Breeze, you took the words out of my mouth. Queen isn't always just a rank in the clans. Besides, cats who are pregnant outside the clans have been called queens before, like for instance, if I remember right Speckle was called a queen because of her kits along with a few other cats outside the clans who I can't quite remember. It's not just the rank in the clans, and I think all the mothers should keep their images. Like I said, we all took a vote on this before, and the majority of us agreed that it would be fitting to change the requirements for a queen image. Why change it if we already voted and there's not much reason to switch it to other blanks? It would create pointless work. 07:03, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I like the idea for Squirrelflight, most definitely. I'm not really sure about the Leafpool blank, after seeing the comments above. ^^ But I still really like the look of it. 04:53, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

In the context of the blanks, I am going to attest that they are representations of the ranks, and not of the generic word "Queen" (of which that blank has no business being considered a representative of, as the word just refers to a female cat, and does not require pregnancy, according to Paleclaw's argument, being female would qualify a cat to use that blank) I've always drawn a line in the sand about what cats should get what blanks. That line being "had to have formally held the rank". Not been called that rank by a cat or anything like that (in fact, this idea that being called something = getting the queen blank directly conflicts with a similar ruling in another project regarding mentor status and who qualifies it, so there is a potential precedent that might be applied here). 14:29, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

I know it would be a bit of work, guys, but since when have we shied away from that? Did we not just get through remaking every single apprentice charart? Are we not in the process of redoing every single loner charart? Are we not considering even doing the rogues? We are PCA. We do what we do and we love it. The fact that this would be a lot of work is irrelevant. And, if you guys haven't noticed, having queen charrts for some cats have confused other members of the site. Countless times I've had to remove queen names from Yellowfang and Leafpool's charts because people keep adding them. They were never queens, and us representing them as such is a misrepresentation of facts. Yes, the word queen has been applied to just female cats... in the first book only, though, and the authors later admitted (if I remember correctly) that calling all of the females queens was an idea they quickly scrapped. Queen is a rank in the Clans. Only in the Clans, which is why we lable kit-mother images differently. We need to respect the integrity of this. 21:00, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Join Request
Hi, I'm new here, and I'd like to know how to make the charart. So far ive tried to make my own characters, but the results were so bad im deleted them from my computers memory. (I usually keep my bad results to see how I improve). To put it short, I absolutely SUCK at shading. I'd like to join to see some works and maybe get taught how to do it. Bye! ^^ PopSizzlez 22:46, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Please take a look at the guidelines, then there is also the tutorials you can reference for any help, (including shading ^.^), and finally the mentor program of which you can ask for a mentor to show you the ropes. Welcome to the project. 02:16, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Welcome PopSizzlez, I'm sure you're not as bad as you think you are. <span style="">04:57, Fri, Feb, 3, 2012

Leaving
Dear Wiki, I am quitting the wiki and so you can remove me from the list. It was really great to be able to see my charats be CBAed and it was really fun! Everyone on the wiki really gave me a good time here on the wiki and I give you all my BIG BIG ''' TTTTHHHHHAAANNNKKKKSSSS!!!!!!!!!! ''' It's not really big but I really was glad to be able to be part of the wiki and I never thought I would have been able to be a warrior in PCA! That was a huge suprise when you wikians supported me! I hope this project will be very successful for a very long time! May all be prosperous on the wiki!!! Farewell, I might come back one day to check on how the wiki is doing! 23:01, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Aww! I'll miss you, Dapple. ;((( Have a good life and may StarClan light your path! 23:05, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Good luck in life, Dapple, wherever it may take you! Your skills will be missed, and you will remembered. 00:06, February 3, 2012 (UTC) Shadewing

Awww... bye Dapple. =( We'll be waiting for your return! <span style="">04:59, Fri, Feb, 3, 2012

Where...?
Where did my mentor go? Specklestream has been gone for 3 months or more, now, I think. Where have you hid her? ♫Purplemoon♪  Happy Valentine's Day! Chocolate, please?  23:21, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

She said she was having stomach problems in November, so I think it's safe to say she's not coming back for a while. *Shrugs* <span style="">23:33 Thu Feb 2

But three months... ♫Purplemoon♪   Happy Valentine's Day! Chocolate, please?  23:36, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

I believe it's time for her to be removed from inactivity till she comes back (if she does), thus removing her as your mentor. Feel free to apply for another one if you want to. 00:56, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

CBAing
Hi all, I've noticed that SMs are starting to get into the habit of CBAing their own image right after uploading. CBAing your image after twenty-four hours, fine; having another SM CBA your image, okay. However, doing it after uploading? Sorry, but I find that unacceptable, and unfair. While some users of this project have the privilege to CBA and approve images, others don't. It's quite unfair to those who can't CBA their image. It's just a small note to all. 02:32, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Teldy. I've been noticing too. If your image really is good enough to be CBA'd, then some other SM will do it. 02:58, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

As some of you have seen, I CBA'ed Scorchfur's apprentice (which I was doing), when I uploaded it. For that, I am truly, truly, sorry. I've seen it happen before, so I thought it was fine. I think it shouldn't be allowed, as it's rude, and leads newer SMs (such as me) in the wrong path. 03:42, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I saw that as well, and I know what you were thinking. I don't think you realized that it was after 24 hours, am I right? So you figured he was fine and CBA'd him on your own. 03:43, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I always try to only CBA my own charart after at least 24 hours without comments, but to be honest, I'm a bit impatient. 03:44, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

@Oblivion, yes, it was what I was thinking. I'm still new to being a SM, and I'm sure that I'll mess up more in the future. x3 03:55, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

It's my personal opinion that a blanket policy be imposed of simply not calling "Comments Before Approval" on your own images. There's not so few staff that such should be considered appropriate. Impatience is no excuse for gaming the system. 22:03, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

You have a point Kitsu. I do think that we should do this; we've got like twelve senior warriors now, and along with the leader and deputy, that's plenty of staff that you shouldn't have to CBA your own image. 22:06, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Seems fair enough to me. Another thing I want to bring up is, I think we should make it so if an image goes, say, 3 days without maybe we could have them go on automatic CBA? I've seen it happen before where it's gone that long without comments or CBA, and though rare, I still think it's a problem. Maybe with more SWs now we might not have the problem, but I still think it'd be something good to have. 00:24, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

I agree that SM's can't CBA their own image. I also agree with Ivy, that if it's 3 days without a comment, it's automaticly CBA'd. That should apply for all users though. <span style="">01:28, Sat, Feb, 4, 2012

Just make it so that X amount of time (3 days, you suggested above) opens things to anyone except the artist can CBA the image. It's not like saying "Comments Before Approval" is too difficult for even a kit in the project, and as the final approval would still need to be handled by a Senior Warrior or higher member of the project there's still the little bit of oversight that's needed. The idea of "Automatic CBA" I don't like. I don't like the idea of an image being approved without a formal final call. That final call is to draw people's attention to the image so that they take a final look and ensure that no errors are going to make it to press. 14:23, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Leopardstar
On the tweak nominations page, Leopardstar's leader image is listed as "Patches need to be more realistic", do they mean the patchy fur, or the spots? It's a veeeeeeeeeery small question. 02:41, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Patchy fur I believe. The spots are fine, so if it is meaning the spots, it should be taken off the tweak list. But I think the patchy fur could be a bit more natural. 05:44, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

I put it on, and I meant the fur, not the spots. 20:53, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

I am BACK
Are there any chararts left to do? I can't find many more apprentices/or warriors (that is, if any warriors needed fixing up in the first place.)

After that, I am REALLY sorry for my abscence, I hurt my foot on a mountain climb. I'm okay now, hospitals just don't have portable computers.

Thanks, guys :)

Tiger heart  ♥  12:27, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Rippleclaw
I think that the current Rippleclaw picture looks a bit odd. The tabby stripes seem too defined and almost fake looking. I believe that a more natural-looking version should be put into place. I have made a few alternatives. What does everyone else think? (p.s.:I'm not very familiar with the rules, so please inform me if i'm doing something wrong)Chickadee1999 20:48, February 4, 2012 (UTC)Chickadee1999

I think you're talking about Rippletail instead of Rippleclaw. Anyway, I think it looks fine. 20:52, February 4, 2012 (UTC)