Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Character Overviews
Looking around on a few wikis, I've noticed that all of them have a brief description of the characters prior to going in depth in their history, for example:

Firestar was the leader of ThunderClan prior to his death. As an apprentice, he joined ThunderClan, abandoning his kittypet life and becoming Firepaw. During his training, he developed two friends - Graypaw and Ravenpaw. He figured out the reason behind Redtail's death thanks to Ravenpaw, and hid him in a barn. Firepaw then became Fireheart, and Graypaw Graystripe. Fireheart spent much of his warrior life setting out to prove Tigerclaw's treachery, and when Tigerclaw is caught in the act trying to kill Bluestar, Fireheart saves Bluestar's life. Fireheart then becomes the deputy of ThunderClan, saving it from several more plots of revenge by Tigerclaw, who becomes Tigerstar. Firestar won the battle against BloodClan when Tigerstar used them to try to take over the forest, killing Scourge. Following the events of the first series, he finds a lost Clan and rebuilds them to become SkyClan along with his mate, Sandstorm. Following the events of the first series, he leads his Clan through the mountains to their new home and helps them settle in. In the books after, he continues to remain ThunderClan's leader until his death in the The Last Hope, killing Tigerstar once and for all.

It's honestly just a brief brief description, or a summary of their lives in which I think would be very benefical to character articles, however, main characters, not minor characters. That's a rough guideline of some sort, but like I think a character such as Greeneyes wouldn't need it. Then again, this is just a very rough idea and it's something I doubt would go through anyways, I just wanted to suggest it. Comments on this? Try not to kill me by the way. 01:30, March 15, 2016 (UTC)

I actually agree Icy, I think it's a pretty good idea. When I saw it on other wikis before I used to think that it wasn't a very good idea, but now that I think about it, it would be a really practical way for someone just to read about a character and know what they did throughout the series without having to spend like an hour to read the whole history section. Because some of the major characters, like Firestar and Gray Wing and such, have really long histories and it would be a relief to also have a summary paragraph and just see all of what happened to them instead of having to skim the whole thing. So basically I like the idea. 02:37 Tue Mar 15

Eh, I'm not sure if I like this idea or not... mainly because I feel a lot of the main characters already have fairly large articles as it is... but I suppose I'll take a bit more time and think about it before fully having an opinion.

I think that perhaps it'd be nice, but I think we should get the main articles of characters first. It's a idea, but don't think it should be too high of a priority because of the amount of articles on the concerns list.

My basic point is that I think a brief short of the character would be beneficial in the long run. I know that when I look at a character I don't really have time to read the entire article so seeing the short description does help me. And this isn't a matter of laziness, I just think it's convenient. 03:32, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

I'm 50-50 on this. It'll be useful for pretty major characters with long histories but then again, most people have read the books and typically don't need it.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:18, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, but some people haven't read every single book which is kinda my point here. 22:10, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

I'm still not sure if I like the idea, but that's because I haven't had the chance to think about it... but will everything be cited, or is it just going to be written as a normal history section would be? Personally, given how it's supposed to be brief and have important facts, I think it should probably be cited in one form or another...

Imo, it should be cited, considering that it is facts about the character. 22:43 Thu Mar 31

I'd be more for the idea if it was all cited... It would be helpful for the major characters.

So we have two people agreeing to my idea and 2 people 50/50. Can we have some more comments? 02:31, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

I think this is a fantastic idea! I sometimes need to check something like " Who found out about Tigerclaw killing Redtail?" Having this summary would make that articles look nicer as well! 21:29, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Fernpaw (TAQ), Ferntail, and Featherpelt
Bit of a conundrum here, guys. We have three different cats, but only two of them actually appear.

Ferntail is apparently supposed to be the kit of Sedgewhisker and Emberfoot, and Crowfeather's apprentice, as seen on Kate's blog. She isn't shown in the allegiance list for The Apprentice's Quest, both the iBooks preview and the official release.

Featherpelt appears, though, and she has the same description as Ferntail, but she is, without a doubt, the Featherpaw from Bramblestar's Storm, and one of Crowfeather's apprentices. There isn't anything doubting the canonocity of this character whatsoever... but it is interesting that she shares the same exact description and mentor as "Ferntail".

There's also a Fernpaw, and this she-cat has a totally different description. She's a dark brown she-cat, an allegiance-only character, and doesn't show up in the list we got from Kate.

What exactly should we do about this? We can't really add anything for Ferntail, since she doesn't exist as of the book release. Should we just delete Ferntail's page? Given that Ferntail is also listed as a kit of Sedgewhisker and does have littermates... this doesn't quite make sense.

We can't just have an empty article, though.

Add Ferntail to the minor chacter page? Inconsistencies. Great editors, Warriors. Just great. I'm actually getting seriously tired of all of these inconsistencies 03:31, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

But Ferntail doesn't exist anymore, so she's technically not a character. I don't think we can put her on the minor characters page.

Trivia? 14:51, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

I think it should definitely be trivia, because for example Jayclaw was originally named Jaywing(it's in his trivia), but it had been changed since Kate's blog on the allegiances.

Ferntail was in an early version of the allegiances, of course there will be some changes. I'd say delete because they do not appear in the final version.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:18, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

No, I still think they should be in the trivia. They were mentioned, after all. 22:29, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

I agree, it shoud be in their trivia, but they should be categorized as mentioned characters. Or, of course, Kate could be asked since I think she made the draft? But imo, the page shouldn't be deleted, it should just be in their trivia that they got drafted out of the final copy. 23:03 Mon Apr 4

I'm not sure it makes sense for the pages to be kept, though? They'd just be empty and sitting there. Characters who get changed have their old names serving as a redirect; such as Troutfin, when the name was changed to Milkfur... a trivia statement wouldn't hurt, just like I did for Stonewing and Jayclaw. I'm only asking this time because there seems to be a bit of a mixup with the apprentice/general list, and not just a name swap.

Unoffical leaders (SPOILERS)
Sorry I should've brought it up with PC prior to doing anything. Okay so unofficial leaders, I know that this has been discussed before but in Darktail's case, he was heavily referred to a leader so many times Alderpaw was just like "why isn't he called Darkstar you dumdums". He refers to himself as a leader several times, and they drove SkyClan out and he is the leader of the rogues technically, and they all listen to him and stuff like that. Does that make him a leader, or should we put it as unofficialy? Same thing goes for Jingo, by the way. 14:21, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

A leader is a leader, regardless. At the same time, it would also be appropriate to clearly define what the leader rank is. Is it only a Clan rank, and if it is, then why are these cats clearly labeled as leaders of their own group? If so, then what's to say for cats like Furled Bracken and Stone Song, who were very much leaders of the Ancient group of cats we saw in Long Shadows and Sign of the Moon, and why aren't they entitled to a leader charart?

Is our blank only a Clan leader charart? If so, then why are all Clan leaders marked with "Leader" instead of "Clan Leader", when the leader rank itself is shown to be used elsewhere? Slash's group, Darktail's group (they'd also get a page, I think?????), Jingo's group, the Ancient cats, BloodClan, ect. There are multiple groups within the series that have a clear leader of their group, but they don't get anything special.

Right now I think we should think of status, not charart. What I'm thinking is that we have a leader, but maybe in the trivia it says they're not a Clan leader? Or maybe Leader (Unofficially), and officially can be a Clan? Idk I'm tired 14:30, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

They're tied together, and you can't talk about one without bringing up the other, Icy. =P And technically, cats like Slash, Darktail, Furled Bracken, and Stone Song aren't unofficial. They are called leaders, and multiple times at that. They're just not Clan leaders, which makes me think we need to redefine what a leader is and who does and doesn't count.

a leader is a leader, regardless of the group, they have the same job even if they don't have the same methods, the only real difference is the nine lives the clan leaders get, so they really should get some kind of rank acknowledgement. all in all it's just up to the wiki itself if we want to use the images for non clan cats or not. 14:35, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

I hate to say this, but maybe we could have a blank for non-clan leaders? But this is PC, and I think we can call them leaders (non-clan) or something like that. We need to acknowledge that they are leaders, but not Clan leaders. 14:51, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

They are most definitely leaders, but perhaps we could create a Non-Clan Leader rank/category for them? I do agree that each group probably should have it's own page, as said above.

There are so many examples of non-Clan leaders that I'm surprised this rank hasn't been brought in before.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:33, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

Comments?Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:12, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

I think a leader is a leader regardless whether it is of a clan or another group because isn't a clan just a group? 21:21, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Major Characters
Woo another discussion again. Okay so I've been musing over this for a while, and what is our definition of a major character? For example, I believe that Cloud Spots, Dappled Pelt, Pebble Heart, and Acorn Fur could be included in the major character list for Moth Flight's Vision, as they appear a number of times and help Moth Flight out a lot. However, I do disagree with several cats on the major character list, such as Tigerstar and Firestar for Omen of the Stars. Do we even have a definition? If so, what is it? And if we don't, can we come up with one and apply it to the articles? Or does anyone even want to change the major character list as we have it now? 22:38, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

I'd be okay to having Pebble Heart, as major, but the others weren't really much more than supporting imo. The current list doesn't really need to change too much... Tigerstar appears a lot in OoTS, and Firestar, not as much I guess but he's still there a lot.

I think Cloud Spots could be considered major, to a point. He does appear quite frequently.. but I think the more important question here is do we really have a definition (not talking literal, but what PC would count as) for 'main', 'major', 'supporting', 'minor', 'mentioned', and 'allegiance-only'? It does seem to me that these things have more of a 'it's up to the person(s) writing the article' air, so perhaps we could discuss that too?

The tutorial we have does outline this a little, but you are right we need a more outlined definition.Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:01, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

I think the definitions for which characters are Main ,Minor and Allegiance-nly are pretty clear, as per the blurbs on their Category pages. The supporting, minor, and mentioned definitions could use clarification.

Main characters, yes, as they need a PoV in order to be listed as one (as far as I'm aware; this could be wrong, but it's how I've always operated)... but I'm willing to bet that with major, it could very well be called into question. What determines if a character is major? How important they are to the plot? How many appearances they have? Their relevance to the main characters? The entire thing needs to be rehashed and thought out in detail, because we have a lot more characters than when those pages were initially created and the concept thought up. What worked back then might not work now, if only for the massive amount of characters we have.

Stonewing ~ Silver Nomination
Credits to the ones who started him, I just added details and a link. Comments? <span style="">03:39 Sun Apr 3

Comments before vote? This and Wasptail are extremely minor and there's nothing else that needs to be done.

Wasptail ~ Silver Nomination
Again, credits to the ones who worked on him before me. <span style="">03:46 Sun Apr 3

Comments before vote? This and Stonewing are extremely minor and there's nothing else that needs to be done.

May FA
Hey, I actually get to do lead stuff, lol. I know it's a bit early, but I figure two weeks for discussion, and then setting up the vote is appropriate (a couple days is rushing it, imo)... and I have a special request for May's FA. Those who know me know that a certain tortoiseshell she-cat is very special to me, and the person who I'm reminded of would have had a birthday in May. If no one minds, in honor of my friend (who actually read Warriors, I think), I would like to have Turtle Tail as May's FA.

While I don't know who it is that you are referring too, I have no objections here. None of the main TAQ characters have been written anyways. Turtle Tail's article seems to be well written- I'd just say that she needs a few more quotes from The Sun Trail before being gold, but that should be easy. <span style="">22:58 Mon Apr 4

Not much of anything Turtle Tail says in The Sun Trail is significant to the plot, but I'm sure I could go through and maybe find one or two. I know I wiped them all out when I wrote her article after so many other books being released, since there just wasn't anything that suited her. She's hardly more than a 'minor supporting' character, so to say, in The Sun Trail, and I think her character is better after that book. Most of the quotes are standard ones that hardly have anything to do with her, and more along the lines of 'she's a pretty she-cat' or something about her liking Gray Wing or something like that.

Agreeing with Mapleclaw. One quote or two from the Sun Trail will do. Maybe something from Moth Flight's Vision too as a quick glance shows some pretty strong moments for her in that book.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:20, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Turtle Tail would be good, and I think just one more quote from TST would be good. I mean, it's fine as is imo but it couldn't hurt.

Eaglekit
Is there a specific reason that he has a StarClan charart, and all of that? Am I missing something here, or does the cite that he has confirm he died as a kit? I know the kits from Cloudstar's Journey didn't get StarClan images or anything like that when we have cites for them? Since it's an issue with the cite itself, I think it goes to PC, not PCA... Is there a cite missing that shows he died as a kit, since I think both his mentions show him alive?

Yeah there is nothing that says what rank he was when he died, only that he was in StarClan at time of Vicky's comment (which was around Fading Echoes), so it's pretty easy to say Eaglekit survived and became a warrior but was never mentioned.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  05:35, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Tbh I'd give him a regular StarClan charart, unless we can find a new source that says he died as a kit.

he doesn't get that either if it's never confirmed when he died. if it's the same issue as the skyclan kits from cj, then the only image he should have is the kit, and just be listed as a starclan cat. 12:23, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

His name was Eaglekit at the time is not safe to say he was a kit at the time? 21:25, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

But when did he die? Was he a kit, or was that just the last time we saw him? And I honestly don't think we have a cite for how or when he died, only that he's in StarClan? It's a bit of an assumption (along with the CJ kits) to say he was a kit when he died. He could have been an apprentice for all we know.

Sorry I got him mixed up with that Windclan cat who died in the attack on their camp. Sorry my bad! 21:59, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Character Ages
Alright, so, I had a nice piece of information sent to me on tumblr last week, and I figure that it's kinda important, since it revolves around the character ages on the articles. Now, some of these appear to be right...but others don't make a lick of sense? tldr the image explains what I'm trying to say... but I really think we need to rethink when we add ages to character pages, because something's not right here. Do we try and fix these mistakes (as there are quite a few), or do we try something else instead?

I think we need this general rule: The ages will only change when a new book comes out and nothing else. I think partially the reason people are mixed up because maths is not the easiest in the world and it's hard to tell how much time passes in books sometimes. I think yes fix the mistakes and be very strict about ages being changed. Maybe only a certain few users (like the charart being changed on the character pages) are allowed to edit these ages. Might be a little hard to reinforce at first but people will eventually get it.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  00:36, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Stealthfire makes a good point. Jaysnow (talk) 00:37, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

I can reread the entire series and pinpoint the characters' almost exact ages by taking notes.

Let's try to fix all these mistakes. I know seeing the characters' ages helps me out a ''ton. ''Why don't we use the Events Timeline for a reference when we're done fixing it up? 00:42, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Why not just start over with the ages? Delete them from the character articles for now, rework the system (and when and why the ages are updated, just like Stealth said), and then put them back on the character pages? We could always use a PC subpage or something along those lines to have the approx. ages and the evidence that proves it?

I agree; I know that the DTC timeline is being made, and I think that would make it much easier to track the DTC cats' ages when that is finalized. For the other cats too, though, I agree that it would be a good idea to just clear it for now and add it back in later when the ages are updated. <span style="">02:10 Thu Apr 7

I think on a page ( timeline page or character ages) we should have a rough moon time scale. ie how many moons have past since Tallstar was made an apprentice till when was Bluestars made leader. This would help us get an accurate time span. 10:44, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should take them off for now, fix them, then put them back on. There's so many characters, and it'd be good to take them off temporarily to make sure we don't forget anyone.

I think it's better to leave them just on (for now) and make a subpage to put down notes per book and then change the ages for each specific character. It would probably be best to start with Into the Wild, since I will be reading the book shortly.

Raven (TAQ) ~ Silver Nomination
I currently have lent out my copy of TAQ, so it would be much appreciated if someone could get the page numbers for her 2 quotes. Comments?

I added the page numbers for everything but the rogue cite, since I don't know when she was considered to be 'confirmed' to be a rogue. But could you somehow change the quote description? It kind of confuses me, because it feels like Raven is talking about Darktail's group as if she isn't one of them. Could you also say that she is talking about the journeying cats? <span style="">21:49 Fri Apr 8

UpdatedTy Maple