Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Clear Sky and One Eye plus One Eye's camp?
Me and Patch were talking as we were re-reading the Blazing Star and came upon that Clear Sky was forced to be driven out by One Eye and his rogues. Plus none of Clear Sky's cats joined him, only Sparrow Fur. However, this brings a discussion where would One Eye succeed Clear Sky unofficially, and this is the same situation where Darktail forces Rowanstar out and unofficially becomes leader of ShadowClan and his rogues before becoming the Kin. Then once One Eye was killed, Clear Sky took back his camp and became leader again. When Clear Sky was staying at Tall Shadow's camp, many cats referred to Clear Sky's cats as One Eye's rogues and cats. It's not Clear Sky's camp.. but would it count as One Eye's group or camp? Me and Patch want to see what other people's thoughts or comments on this.

Also, I'd like to bring up that when Thunder was born, he was basically a rogue, and not a Clan cat yet. It even states in the Blazing Star, too. Not get the image, but would he get the past thing? Needletail 🐾 #Litten 02:34, May 11, 2018 (UTC)

I support this idea. Even if isn't official, One Eye did force his way to leadership is Clear Sky's camp. Most of the cats remained in the camp as One Eye took over, and like Cosmo said, they are referred to as "One Eye's cats" so I think it would count as a group, even if it was only for a short period of time. Clear Sky came and took back the leadership of the group, after One Eye had been leading it, so I believe it should be added that One Eye succeeded Clear Sky, and Clear Sky later succeeds One Eye.

As for Thunder's case, I also agree with because he was not part of any group while he was young living with his mother, Storm, so I'd think that'd be listed as a past affiliation. 02:46, May 11, 2018 (UTC)

imo it would be camp since it was an established area, and its not even unofficial, it was him taking clear skys camp.

clear skys cats also do stay with him, even if unwillingly, and those cats that were forced to be with the kin still have the affie (even if its with a note explaining theyre prisoners). my question is if they would be considered rogues and get a listing for the time during they were one eye's cats or no? 07:09, May 11, 2018 (UTC)

I guess camp since you explained it better, aha.

That brings another good question now.. would they? They are me ruined to be One Eye's rogues lots of times in the blazing star... Needletail 🐾 #Litten 10:30, May 11, 2018 (UTC)

They should get those cites, I believe. Whether they wanted it or not, it defined them for a time.

Are Birch and Alder old enough to be considered "rogues"? Like if we agreed with the One Eye's Camp. And then the leader's unofficial leader succeeding/preceding for Rowan/dark and one eye/clear sky, and then thunder with the rogue affie? Needletail 🐾 #Litten 01:29, May 12, 2018 (UTC)

They were kits iirc, so no. Not really.

One Eye never officially leads Clear Sky's camp, though. Just like Darktail never officially led ShadowClan, so if we do not have one for Darktail and ShadowClan, why One Eye and Clear Sky? 02:38, May 12, 2018 (UTC)

darktail didn't lead shadowclan because it only existed via rowanstar, tawnypelt, and tigerheart at that point. shattered sky even confirms that. (which brings up another issue of why he and others have sc affie if that's so....) as far as I can tell one eye even says he "took the leadership" out of clear sky's paws, clear sky says "one eye has taken over my camp", and it outright says "one eye's camp" on another page. whether that's enough to say he was leader after clear sky or even enough for it's own page, I don't know, but there's some evidence regardless. 23:02, May 13, 2018 (UTC)

Because most of the ShadowClan cats who were under Darktail's ruling in the early days did still consider themselves ShadowClan, so that's where that cite comes from. Also, if they called it "One Eye's camp", then it's pretty safe to say he took over.

One Eye did take over Clear Sky's camp for a while until he was killed. Same with Darktail- he took over ShadowClan before they turned into the Kin. Needletail 🐾 #Litten 00:18, May 15, 2018 (UTC)

Any more comments? 01:32, May 23, 2018 (UTC)

Spiresight- a warrior?
I saw that Broken added him as a warrior but I think we should discuss it first? I hope this isn't wasting time in discussions. Thoughts on adding Spiresight with a warrior's blank? Or adding the cite? Needletail 🐾 #Litten 21:31, May 11, 2018 (UTC)

I don't think it's a waste of time or space. It should be discussed. Trust me, I'm not just searching for more art, but this has been on my mind for a while. He is outright hailed as a warrior by Tigerheart, and given a warrior name- not sure if the latter counts for one though. That in itself seems valid, but then again, it needs to be discussed. 21:35, 5/11/2018

Hmmm, dunno if that qualifies him gettin a warrior image, though. He technically wasn't one when he was alive.

I think this is more of a case where cats get warrior names but are not necessarily named warriors. Spiresight never joined a Clan, nor did he even see one. Tigerstar may have given a name, but he did not officially allow him into ShadowClan. 02:35, May 12, 2018 (UTC)

I feel like if he had made the journey to ShadowClan he could get a blank, but he was only really a warrior when he got to StarClan, if that makes sense? He never was an actual warrior doing warrior duties.

Considering Kate has said on her blog that Spiresight would have become a medicine cat, (see here) I'm not sure the warrior thing counts. It could be good to note, but I feel that we should take Kate's words into consideration.

Definitely agreed about taking Kate's words into consideration. Very good point.

Combined with Kate's say on this, plus the fact that the name was given post-mortem and he never lived as a warrior, I think it's more of a trivia statement and not a rank cite.

I feel as if we are all more towards "no, he is not a warrior, just add it to the trivia." Is that true? 01:33, May 23, 2018 (UTC)

Template for redirect
Looking at redirect pages, there is no consistency with the way they are written. To be professional, I believe that we should have a template, or at least a guide, to write redirects so that they are all consistent with one another. 14:13, May 17, 2018 (UTC)

I agree^^ I'd think a template could be made for this fairly easily, but we could also do a guide. Consistency ftw

A guide is a nice idea.

Briarlight ~ Gold Nomination
Right so this was December 2013's FA but it never reached gold due to some issues it had. Those had since been taken care of, but I went through and finished the remaining sections that were incomplete, and gave most of the other sections some love <3 she deserves gold now, such an awesome cat 22:40, May 18, 2018 (UTC)

Amberpaw is not linked, can you link her? (And a few other things need to be linked, like tunnels, Poppyfrost, and some others) For "so not to have the kittypet stare," maybe you can change that to "in order for the kittypet to not stare?" There are also typos in each history section. And can you add paragraphs for each new event? Maybe also add some more context to Eclipse - where is Millie vibrating? Where did it scare her, and what did she go back to for milk?

For when "cats begin to improve," maybe you can change it to "the cats infected by whitecough, including Briarkit, begin to heal." Bound should be "bounds." There should be an "a" before snake.

I am not sure "you" should be used in an article. And some grammar needs to be fixed. Also add context for Hollyleaf, it just says she appeared.

Commas need to be added in sections, like "Jayfeather orders her to get fresh-kill and despite Briarlight trying to protest he insists, so Briarlight goes to do so," but also elsewhere.

Why did Cherryfall need help? Add context to things that are not explained, and some things are linked twice, like medicine cat.

"Alright" is used in one instance, then "all right" is used. Change so they are both alright or all right (alright is not a word, so...)

"This isn't because they took care of her, but because she was their friend." needs something added to it, like, "Alderheart adds that it is not because they took care of her."

"When Dovewing visits the medicine den, Briarlight propped up on her forelegs, sitting next to Foxleap." Change it to "she sees Briarlight propped up." 01:56, May 23, 2018 (UTC)

Updated Added the context things that you'd noted specifically, but for me the rest seemed fine okay - since too much context imo takes away from the article focusing on said character.

Comments before vote? 22:37, May 25, 2018 (UTC)

Apprenticeship in the camps
Some cats in the camps are being trained by others. For example, Reed Tail trains Dust Muzzle and Moth Flight techniques, or Eagle Feather and Mouse Ear, or Black Ear and Spotted Fur. The cats that were in Slash's camp probably doesn't count or they could say unofficial mentor or remove the cite overall. Should we cites count as the trainee to be an apprentice? Like Dew Petal teaching Honey Pelt? Or Cloud Spots mentoring Ember for a short while. Medicine cats like Pebble Heart or Acorn Fur got the mca, and Micah and Reed Tail were trained, too, but would they get the mca? Pebble Heart was approved and Acorn Fur a while back. Thoughts? Needletail 🐾 #Litten 23:34, May 20, 2018 (UTC)

The only cat I can think this remotely passes for is Pebble Heart. But I fervently disagree with everyone else - none of them were ever "apprentices." 02:02, May 21, 2018 (UTC)

Pebble Heart and Acorn Fur, imo. Acorn Fur was very clearly learning from Micah in a traditional mentor/apprentice way. Other than that, I don't think sharing knowledge and whatnot really counts.

I'm not sure they should count. Pebble Heart and Acorn Fur certainly would, as MCAs. A lot of these were before Clans were a thing, hence why cats like Snail Shell already have it but these don't - because they weren't actually apprentices.

Summaries (Again)
I would really like some comments on this, whether you disagree or agree, because this just keeps getting archived with no clear conclusion. Can we please discuss writing some summaries, after a cat's description? Say someone does not want to read the entire history, just wants a quick snippet of the character - can we work for each major character, and each supporting one, a little overview of what their personality is, their events in the book, etc? 03:16, May 21, 2018 (UTC)

Until we can chop down on PC's concerns list more, I personally have to disagree. While it's a nice idea that would totally work in the future, I don't think we should start a project of this caliber when we already have so much to do - and to divide the attention of those few writing sections consistently - would only intensify the problem of falling behind on histories. I'd be in support of this idea probably around... the gap after AVoS because we'll most likely have a break then, since it is a good concept, but it's one I don't believe we have the capaility to see all the way through right now.

Your point is valid, which is why I am not suggesting we do all of it at once. It is just an option to have so if by chance anyone wants to do a quick summary, the option is available as PC would have agreed on it. 12:04, May 21, 2018 (UTC)

This is a great idea.

Characters appearing in allegiances
So, I was just thinking about this. We have this cited in trivia for characters like him that appeared in the book despite not being in the allegiances. The allegiances are created according to the start of each book. Does that have to be there? The main characters had not come across the rogues by the start of the book, so there's no reason they should be listed at the start. Hopefully that makes sense. If I'm misunderstanding something, let me know.

All cats that appear in the book are usually listed in the allegiances. If he is not listed in the allegiances then he should not appear - it does not matter the manner of appearance. 20:30, May 21, 2018 (UTC)

There've bee a few cases in which the allegiances don't always refer to the start of the book, as well, so I think it'd still stay trivia.

Join?
Can I join Project Characters, please? I know I'm pretty new to the Wiki though I plan on sticking around for a while. Also, my apologies for posting this in the wrong place; I didn't know how to add another heading. Silverspiritwarriors (talk) 01:44, May 23, 2018 (UTC)

Okay, I'll add you in! Make sure to read the guidelines.

Past Affies
Okay- some past affies are correct and stuff, or count as a past affie, but there are some that should be discussed/or count maybe. Depends on how we see it or view g? The apprentices in SkyClan such as Plumwillow and her siblings, etc taking Kittypet food. They got the affie but really never joined them. I guess Pebble Heart and his siblings he wouldn't count as they were never really official kittypets, just stolen. Birdwing could count? But Leafstar and her kits count as they stayed there for more than a day. I'd say we could count affies if a cat stayed somewhere for more than a day? Such as Stormfur, Feathertail, Violetshine(when she was in ThunderClan). I also think that Twigpaw should get the ShadowClan temp past affie as she stayed in ShadowClan for more than a day, but was kidnapped and still stayed there. This counts for Leadpool as she did help train cats and stayed there more than a day or two. Quiet Rain I think should get an affie of Tall Shadow's Camp as she did stay there for a while before dying. We see this as Clear Sky after he lost his camp for a while to zone Rye and Grey Wing going to River Ripple's camp for more than a day. I guess what I'm trying to explain is- which affies should count and which should not depending on the situation. Also when Twigpaw left ThunderClan- is she considered a loner? Or just stilly ThunderClan -as stated in SS- it took more than 2 weeks for her to find SkyClan. And when Firestar and Sandstorm left thunder to find skyclan- they were probably loners if we count it as they /left/. Also with Tallstar being a Kittypet- he stayed there for a while and was helped by the Twolegs. We don't count Willowbreeze as she unofficially never stayed there for more than a day. Cloudpaw was caught for more than moon- so he counts as a Kittypet as an apprentice. Sorry this is confusing or something- but I think it needs to be discussed with what counts and what doesn't- even if it's temp or not. Needletail 🐾 #Litten 01:01, May 24, 2018 (UTC)

I agree that Twigbranch's should count. Quiet Rain's, too.

I do not think cats that are kidnapped should count. That would be like making Ivypool ShadowClan, since ShadowClan kept her for a bit. And if cats leave their Clans to find others, that does not make them a loner - in that case, Firestar and Sandstorm and every questing cat ever would become a loner. I do not think they were loners, they had no plans on leaving their Clan forever, they knew they would come back and it was just for a mission. Cloudpaw I think can maybe count as a kittypet for a bit, but I also do not think any cat kidnapped and stayed against their will counts as "part of the Clan," or wherever they were taken. 02:17, May 24, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with pretty much everything brought up here, but I'm siding with Icy on the kidnapped thing and questing cats. Sandstorm and Firestar were still ThunderClan cats, they never offically left, just left their territores for a bit, but they were always ThunderClan. Kidnapped cats I don't think should count either because it's basically the same thing with questing cats, they never left their Clan, they're being forced to stay against their will, but they're still said Clans cats. Now for Stormfur, Feathertail, and Violetshine, i think that's fine, they were living in that Clan for a bit, same goes for Quiet Rain, and yeah, Pebbleheart and his siblings probably won't count. Same thing applies for Twigpaw in the FireSand one. Now Plumwillow and her siblings, I don't quite remember the situation they were in so I don't have much comment on that :P I think Birdwing would count, if I'm remembering what happened to her correctly. 02:34, May 24, 2018 (UTC)

Only cats held against their will that should count are Kin prisoners imo, since the whole oath thing etc. otherwise, they shouldn't get it unless it was for a very significant amount of time. I also think that Plumwillow and co's KP cite some need to be removed - they weren't actually kittypets and just took the food. If we counted all the cats who've been mentioned to have had kittypet food we'd have to add HJ apprentices, MO, Needlepaw, ones and many more, which really isn't accurate because they're not actually kittypets.

Join
Hey y'all can I join this project? 03:26, May 24, 2018 (UTC)

Harepaw's mentor
Alright, so the Norwegian edition of River of Fire has our good buddy Sneezecloud listed as Harepaw's mentor instead of Beetlewhisker. Should it be changed to that? I know this is the English wiki, but would it better since Beetlewhisker is supposed to be dead? This could work with a note thing saying that is exclusively in the Norwegian edition or something as well. 04:19, May 24, 2018 (UTC)

as much as I like the idea, I dont think we can. it's not an english book, and this wiki only takes stuff from those. 11:28, May 24, 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I think that we should just stick with what the English version says. 22:38, May 25, 2018 (UTC)

Creekfeather
right so this was pointed out to me by some interwiki friends - Creekfeather is shown as a solid white cat throughout SD's manga - and is seen several times as both an apprentice and warrior. A cite was removed from his page earlier this year about him just missing his tabby stripes, though others like Hawkwing & Sandstorm have received alts for that (so might be missing something here if it's just me then rip). There's also the fact that he's shown as white in the manga, despite being a gray tabby, so that's a shade mistake, I think? I'm just confused on why it shouldn't count, when it's a shade error as well as a stripes-are-missing kind of deal, because not having it breaks consistency of what we take for some other cites (unless those don't count). Thoughts?

Jayce removed my edit because there's no real proof it's Creekfeather. Yes, their names were used, but the cat with stripes on their legs can also be Creekfeather. idk, I hope that makes sense. Manga images aren't always clear in different PoV's, while Hawkwing got his in his manga because it's very clear it was him. 12:28, 5/24/2018

No proof it's him that's shown as white. That's exactly why I removed it.