Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Just curious
Will Leafstar's image stay as a queen since she still has kits, or be a leader since she's still doing leader duties? *w* Skt Knock knock 03:38, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

I'd really like it to go back to being leader... For personal reasons of loving the leader image, and because she seems to be a leader first and foremost, and has stuck to her leader duties as well as nursing her kits. So yeah, I'm in favor of switching it to leader. 04:48, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Shelly. I'm up for changing it.

I also am agreeing with Shelly. 21:36, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the above-- 22:14, April 30, 2012 (UTC)Moonshine

The thing is, she's still both a queen and a leader. Both images have every right to be her main image since she is equally both. 22:16, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Well...her kits can't stay kits forever. Eventually, they'll grow up. But...-edges away- My opinion, anyway. 08:05, 05 01, 2012

There's a coding thingie on another wiki that I visit that's kinda like the tab code but in the user box (Like [|this]. We could do that, so her main charart can swap between queen and leader. 02:24, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

That could be incredibly cool. Let's do that. :3 02:27, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Oh! We could also use it for the daylight warriors! Can Shelly please make the template? 8D 02:33, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Better you than me (Scar fails at coding xD) Fire away! 02:35, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

sounds like a great idea! And it'd definitely work for the daylight warriors. It's amazing what you can find from looking on other wikis. :P 16:37, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Alright guys, just an update. Kit, Atelda, and I worked together and the switch template is currently set up here. However, the charcat template still needs to be tweaked to compensate for this template, so it can't be used until that's done. 22:42, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

That looks great! I think this should be left up to another project though, since it isn't really our job to make templates... o3o

It isn't working for me, or is it not working period? 19:31, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

It's not working yet. The charcat needs to be updated so it can manage characters who have one picture while also managing those who have two. 21:28, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Things That Are Artist's Choice
I was checking through the guidelines and noticed *unless I'm blind* they didn't say anything about what exactly is artist's choice on a charart. Shouldn't they be established and added for future members/refrence? 21:52, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Fur length (unless it's WindClan or RiverClan), eye color, pale underbellies, shading placement, ect.

It doesn't need to be added to the guidelines. I'm confident that you guys can figure out what's artist's choice or not, and if it isn't we'll tell you. 21:56, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

I was just thinking it should be added because it would be a lot easier then repeating it to who-knows-how many new users each time they ask.. 00:40, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I find nothing wrong with a small section of the guidelines being added that says what exactly is artist's choice and what isn't. When I first joined, I had someone tell me (not sure who) that the default eye color was blue for characters that didn't have an eye color that was cited. I didn't actually know there wasn't a specific color until months later.

There's no harm done, but I'm not sure it's fully necessary. Most of the things that are the artists choice is scattered throughout the whole guidelines, but it probably would help other users. 07:23, 14, 05, 2012

One Last Proposal Before I Go
Ah, hey guys. something came to mind right after I posted my message... and I couldn't ignore it. I'll just be making this proposal and leaving you guys to deal with it how you see fit.

It's pretty simple. I think there should be a chart on the front page of PCA with blank slots for users not in the project to use to reserve chararts if they wish to do so without joining.

So have fun with that. 02:18, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

I could've sworn that you could just add yourself into the chart (not the members table, though). It's what I did a year and half-odd ago. 02:21, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

That's what I did when I first found PCa too. I made a charart or two and just added my name without joining. 03:36, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but having a second chart would make it more obvious to users that they can do that. Many don't have a clue. 108.4.1.7 04:33, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's necessary. Even though most users aren't so good with coding, they could always ask a lead, and we rarely get non-member users to offer charart. :/ 06:50, 07, 05, 2012

"Rarely" doesn't mean "never". I don't see any problem with having an open slot on the reservation chart. It'd be better then having the user think they need too join, submit one charart, then be removed due to inactivity. 18:42, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Sure, there's no problem in having it up there, but it still could be hard to work... But that's just my opinion. 07:50, 14, 05, 2012

Well, the second chart would certainly make it easier to keep track if non-members wanted to do a charart but wouldn't want to join/haven't joined yet. I guess it sounds like a pretty good idea. 10:01, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

Realism? Redos? Tweaks?
Okay. So as we know, PCA has been trying hard to make/redo/tweak images to look realistic. I understand that realism is important-it gives our veiwers a better sense of what a warriors character could look in real life, or so. There have been many debates and discussion so far about realistic images and non-realistic images. First, traingle tabbies aren't accepted in PCA anymore. Second, wavy tabbies, y-tabbies.

We are working to get realistic tabbies, right?

The only thing is that, there are only so little kinds of tabbies that are natural/realistic. I personally think that we should be able to make different kinds of tabbies (not triangle or Y-tabbies, however), that are personalized so that that tabby represents you're style of tabbies. See, art is not perfect, not bad. As this is something that requires creativity and art, I think that we shouldn't be too serious about these things (this is just my opinion, I'm not demanding for PCA to be like this...), like realism. Also, well, some people just may be better in a certain kind of charart (like tabby tortie, bi-color, ect..), but in a different style they may have more trouble with. All PCA members try their absolute best in my opinion, so if somebody just isn't the best at torties (like me) or so, I think we shouldn't redo their images...But keep them in honor of the artist's hard work for PCA. Redoing images...I'm not sure if that's always the best idea. With tweaking, that's different. You improve the image while still keeping the OA's style so it could still be seen. Also, styles should be artist's choice...right?

I also kinda think that sometimes, we take the realism thing too far...*sighs*

Pretty much, I think that we should perhaps have a page that says what qualifies for a redo. I'd like to have less redoing of images, so we could still honor the OA's image, but it could still be tweaked and still have the OA's style there (or just a similar style). What I think that would qualify for a redo would be: Triangle tabby (full triangle tabby, not counting modified), Y-tabby, and an image that is just...Not done properly or completed (extremely blotchy shading).

Also...Images that may not be realistic fully, but still fine, would just be tweaks.

Sorry if I wasn't clear on all of this, I wasn't concentrating too much...So, Feedback, opinions, and suggestions? 06:48, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think we might have taken this a bit too far too. Although I like realism, in my experience; users who view images don't really pay much attention to realism, just how the character looks pretty much. I'd try to make it as realistic and creative as possible, but we can't help it to redo triangle and y tabbies like Stoney said. Giving it some thought, I think Silverstream's and Jake's tabby style, there probally would be more tweaks, was okay. (Even though I <3333 the newer images too) but eh, that's my thoughts. 09:02, 09, 05, 2012

Yup! All images are epic in they're own way! And yeah, I think that newer users/anons pay more attention to the charart's style, but that doesn't mean that we can't neglect realism. Yeah, I guess we're not taking it too far with the realism, however, I just feel that we should honor the OA's hard work a bit more by redoing less images, but more tweaking. 15:03, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we'be taken the realism thing too far... There's still a lot of chararts that get approved now-a-days that aren't exactly possible in the real world. I personally think the rules (for lack of a better word) for redos should be higher and more focused on things like; triangular tabbies, y-tabbies, not fitting the characters description, overblurred areas, ect. Of course no art can be bad. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But we can't focus so much on what looks good rather then what is realistic. Yes, anons and visitors arent going to be looking for 100% realistic art on the characters pages, but that doesn't mean we need to ignore realism and just keep the chararts that look the best. I don't exactly understand how we can tweak images instead of redoing them if they qualify for a redo. Maybe smudge the stripes? I know when I look at my cat I see pointed stripes, but they're way to smudged within his pelt. So maybe we can start doing things like that instead of redoing them completely? Just my thoughts/opinions. 18:05, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Mhmm. I don't believe that redoing some completely is always right. Yeah, we should redo triangle and y-tabbies, but with the smudge tool, it's actually possible to make the stripes look more realistic than unrealistic. 18:11, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I don't exactly agree with some of the redoing either. I've seen some chararts get redone simply because the artist didn't like it, which is why I suggested the higher stakes *having a bad wording day* for redoing. And the smudging tool could be an easy solution for not redoing so many images. A tabby's pattern is almost never so perfect and defined as we draw them here. 18:49, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, we need to make hit harder to qualify for a redo. I think that, besides realism, there needs to be at least something else that needs redoing, like bad shading or things along those lines, before it can be redone. It's kinda sad when some of these gorgeous chararts are given a total rehaul because they have some marking that can't exist. Breeze whisker  01:54, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think the smudging is a good ground for a tweak. But sometimes we can't help it if we need to redo anothers charart. 08:26, 10, 05, 2012

Calling Tweaks?
I'd like to adress a problem with the calling tweaks/redo thing. So, if a user nominates an image, they can get dibs on that image if they want to. I'm sorry, but don't think it's right. If you reserve an image first before another user, then you get it fair and square. And when calling dibs, a different user may want to redo that image (since it may have been sitting there for a long time), but the user who called dibs may have not even done it yet, but left it sitting there. So, the nominator may have called dibs on a lot of images, but has so many to do that many of the images sit there. And we were discussing about how the number of tweaks and redos on the list gets pretty high at times. One factor of the list piling up so much is the calling of tweaks and redos. Images sometimes sit there for months because the nominator called it but didn't do it, and another user may have been wanting to do that image long time ago.

So, pretty much, I think that calling dibs on tweaks and redos should not be should not be a guideline or so. If you get an image, you get it fair and square, and you can let the nominator have the image out of kindnes, not because of a rule.

Thoughts and comments? 20:09, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure... I think that if you actually go around and find an image that you think should be redone/tweaked then you kinda deserve it if it passes. Plus I thought we had a rule about only having a week to do an image that you claimed? O.o Or was that never approved/finalized? or am I just seeing things? x.e 20:17, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think the system works pretty well as it is. If someone wants an image when they claim it, they should reserve it when it's archived. If not, anyone can go in there and reserve out because it wouldn't be on the table (Oh, and don't call me out on the whole "but-the-person-who-claimed-it-should-still-get-it-because-they-can't-be-expected-to-sit-there-and-stare-at-the-tweak-nomination-page". Because what I just said takes place after a few days, not minutes, giving the claimer plenty of time to find and reserve their image). I really hope that made sense. 20:28, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think if you claim it, you should have one week to do the image. If not, then it's fair game for everyone. After all, you may have other images that are being worked on when that's being nominated.

Hmm...I agree with you Cloudy. That would work. 21:33, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think they should have to reserve in on the reservation table within the next 24 hours, also. Otherwise you might have conflicts with the whole "I said I wanted to do this image..." stuff when the other artist had just picked it off the redo/tweak list. It would also keep people from claiming if they've already had three images on the table. Breeze whisker  01:48, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

What cloudy said, about having a week to do it, is already in place. Nothing to change really. 02:28, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, you do have one week to do it, otherwise it's open to anyone. I also think that after archiving an image, once you put it into the Tweak/Redo section, you add the reason for tweak/redo and next to that you might add "Reserved to USERNAME, 10 May 2012, and it should be a senior warriors duty (or anyone's duty) to add and remove that reservation thing. Just a suggestion but yeah. Also, if you already have two tweaking projects, you shouldn't call dibs on an image. 08:39, 10, 05, 2012

I've been suggesting that to Cloudy for a while too DJ. I just never got around to proposing it. XD So I agree completely. 14:59, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree too. ^^ I'm tired of having to look through archives just to find out if someone claimed the tweak/redo or not... 19:28, May 12, 2012 (UTC)

I agree as well. It would make it much easier to see who called what tweaks, and maybe either after they reserved it or after a week it could be taken down... 23:44, May 12, 2012 (UTC)

Seeing as most of us are in an agreement, this could be added to the guidelines, and the little reservation note beside the tweaks should be added in from now on. 06:10, 21, 05, 2012

Disappearance
Hi everyone, I'd just like to apologize for my sudden disappearance. My computer, a few weeks ago, became really slow and soon enough, just completely broke, so it was hard to get onto here. It has just been repaired, but I've lost everything on it, so now it has to be restored too... (I'm posting this from another comptuer, by the way)

I see I have been removed from the list and I understand why... I think I will rejoin when my computer is ready. Though since I was removed, I'll become a warrior again, right?

Well, I guess we'll see what happens... bye guys, and sorry for not being there for the project. It really bums me out that I missed a lot. 01:01, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

D'awww, good lucky with your computer, Ivy! We'll miss you c: 03:58, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Crap, you weren't supposed to be removed. XD That was fault on my part, I read your last post about not being able to take the news anymore wrong, and I thought you said you were leaving, not you weren't. *fails* Would you like me to add you back in, or just leave it till your computer's fixed again? either way, as Rowan said, good luck fixing it, and we look forward to your return. 12:16, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and no, you should be a Senior warrior when you return. One; because you weren't supposed to be removed in the first place, and two; I don't think we ever came to a full agreement that senior warriors who leave get added back as warriors. 12:17, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Oh. xD I think I'll rejoin soon, but not now- my computer is missing Photoshop and GIMP, so those need to be added back in... :3 10.8.56.52 00:25, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Dx See ya Ivy! Re Join soon! And yes, you'll be a SW. 07:58, 16, 05, 2012

Time limit on Tweak Nominations
I've noticed how some tweak/redo nominations will stay up for a week (or more) without getting their three yay or nay votes. That's really not fair to the nominator having to wait that long for their nomination to be approved - especially when it's missing like one vote. I think that maybe after a certain time period, say 3 days, whichever vote at the time has a majority should be the automatic decision. So it would go on the list if the majority were yay votes. And if they're tied I guess it could just default either way, so long as all tied nominations would default the same way. It'll just keep those nominations from sitting there and the nominator from having to wait so long to know whether they can work on it or not. Breeze whisker  04:54, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

I think this might work. It would stop nominations from sitting there. 06:37, 17, 05, 2012

I agree with this...but the only question is for those that tie. I'd say look at the comments, if any, and that could determine if, but, for now, I think that they should just be approved and be done with it, or, if they really want the image to be redone, they can re-nominate it.

I can't do this anymore
Guys, I'm sorry, but I'm really having a difficult time staying away from this website, and to be honest, in these two weeks (?) I've found a hobby that really helps me out. So now it's time for me to rejoin again.

I just hate seeing those tweak nominations go un-voted on. I know there's not much to do right now but you guys could still use my help where it is needed. I'm sorry if I sounded a little dramatic when I left but let's just forget about that and have some fun :)  15:41, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Welcome back, Ivy! Breeze whisker  01:26, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

Muhahahaha. I knew you couldn't stay away from us for too long. <3

Welcome back Ivy! :) <3 02:49, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Ibly! Welcome back <33 8D 06:13, 21, 05, 2012

Mini-hiatus
I'll be taking a mini-hiatus from now until June 8th, because school has gotten very busy and I can't get on much. I'll comment on images whenever I can, and you can always catch me in the chat if I have time :3  22:25, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Quick Salutation
Well hello everyone. =) Just dropping by to say I really like what's been done to this project; splitting up the discussion and approval pages was definitely an improvement. The new (from my perspective) blanks for the rogues, loners, prey-hunters and apprentices look great. Keep up the awesome work - I was scrolling through various pages and the art looks lovely. I see you're in the middle of a "Tweak Week:, which is rather flattering since I had no idea that that process would continue on so far. =p Keep having fun and doing good work. I like that I left this place in capable hands. Anyhoot, sorry to disturb - for those of you who don't know me, just ignore this message. =) Cheerio. -- Bram ble  00:27, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

Bramble! I've missed you <3 Glad to know that you like what you see :) 00:29, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

Bramble, Bramble. It's such a delight to see you visiting, if only for a short time. At least we know we've done something right, if even you think we've done great. <3

I second that, Cloudy! At least we know we're not total flops xP 20:47, May 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Laughs* "Tweak Week"? Try more like..."Tweak Forever" I don't think the Tweak page is leaving...So good to see you again, Bramble, at least we're doing good~ Maple♥  pool  Mischief brewing 02:43, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Join Request
Hi guys, I took a break from this website for a while but now I'm back. When I was on this page before, being on gthe PCA was always something I wanted, but never really could manage to get into. If it is possible, could I please rejoin? I love art and use pixlr! Wavefrost 10:24, May 20, 2012 (UTC)

Of course you can rejoin~ Take a look at the apprentice tutorials, guidelines, and if you need, mentor program. Welcome back~ 17:25, May 20, 2012 (UTC)

Just wondering about some things
On the cover of Warrior's Return, Graystripe looks blue-gray, or a lighter gray than he usually is, and since Millie got a cover alt (even though I've heard you don't do those...?) I think if that qualifies for an alt, he should too. Also, somewhere in the book, Diesel said he is meant to be a loner, so would that qualify for a loner charart or would he still be considered a kittypet? I'll find the cite later, I know it's there. Also, I don't know much about tweaking, but I think Featherwhisker should be tweaked to have a plumy tail like this since he's cited with one. 02:48, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

For Graystripe, no. We don't have a cite for his shade, and that's probably just the lighting anyways. It doesn't go against his description at all. Diesel, I'm not sure, if you can cite him being a loner he'd probably get one. And Featherwhisker, no, it's not that prominent of a feature like it is on Feathertail or Squirrelflight. So no tweak. 05:53, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, and one more thing: Should Hollyleaf get a rogue charart? I know this sounds farfetched, but think about it: She killed a cat and ran off, leaving her Clan. Sure, she wasn't driven out, but it still gave me something to think about. 12:59, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

She left of her own free will, and lived on her own, not boring the Clans. She doesn't get a rogue image. We've discussed this before.

Request to join
I am a massive fan of warriors and I love doing chararts, and I would like my chararts to help this wiki in any possible way, so I request to join PCA.

Thank you, Feathernose

Please tell us what editing program you use. 21:09, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

No, no and no. We only ask for what image editing program they use if they want to apply for a mentor. =.=;;;