Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

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=Discussion=

Official Art
Apologies if the discussion has already been made in the past, but I really believe that we should account for the official art in this project. I mean, the official art was made for a reason. It's the publisher/artist's depiction of the character (and it's technically part of the book, so it should have some sort of canonicity). If the art is inconsistent with the book descriptions I think it should warrant an alt.

Thoughts? I was originally going to post this under the PC discussion but I found that it was more related to PCA.

Ive actually always wondered why we don't do alts for characters shown differently from their written descriptions. Especially when some of them are portrayed incorrectly consistently (Firestar being shown as solid most times despite being confirmed as a tabby especially). 18:51 Fri Aug 17

Wasn't there an alt for Bluestar based on her BP art at some point? Or am I just misremembering things?

Anyways, I do agree that the official art should be accounted for in PCA. However, things could get a little messy on deciding which characters to tweak/redo and which characters to give alts to. So, honestly, I think we should make alts for all characters that have official art, unless the official art and the pixels are similar enough. If anyone wants to expand on my idea or point out its flaws, feel free to. 00:32, August 18, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Branch^^ The German wiki does that as well - makes alts for how characters appear in official artwork. After all, it is officially released material, just like the books. 19:26, August 18, 2018 (UTC)

I think Branch's idea is plausible. It doesn't make sense to completely ignore the official artwork as if it weren't there. I think it should apply to book covers as well.

Just being hypothetical here, but why not keep the art we have and replace it with the official art as charart? 12:19, August 19, 2018 (UTC)

At one point we made alts for official art. If we want to do that again I don't believe we actually deleted the images? We can use put them back in the page, probably with a toggle. 16:30 Mon Aug 20 2018

The main problem with outright replacing charart with official art is that most of the official art doesn't accurately reflect book descriptions. I think we should make a toggle, as Raelic suggested.

Honestly a toggle for the charart/written descriptions and the official art is probably the best idea. Especially for characters who are very constantly showned in a way that differs from in-book descriptions. 14:25 Tue Aug 21

So then what would the toggle for the main image be? I imagine the alt would be "according to official artwork," but what about the other? 16:09, August 22, 2018 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the main would be the in-book/written descriptions like it already is. 17:27 Wed Aug 22

Any other comments? We do not have a lot of opinions... I would like to hear more thoughts from more people before we conclude this. 20:23, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with the concept of adding a toggle to the charart section for official art. Several users have complained about how our chararts don't match the official art, and this way it appeases both sides: an official depiction and an artistic depiction based on the character's official description.  SPO OKY FI RE  00:36, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

I agree we should have a toggle - we could just have the toggle called "Artistic design" and "Official design" or something of the like. 00:38, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

I originally thought that it would be a good idea to list at least one of the official artwork pieces in the charcat toggle as well, perhaps replacing the charart, but I do not know what the rest of you think. If that is an unpopular opinion, what about the portrayals? Sometimes they are very inconsistent - for example, Firestar is portrayed rather differently in various covers - he has no stripes in some, stripes in some, a white muzzle in another, and is different shades of ginger in all portrayals. Jayfeather is portrayed without pupils in The Ultimate Guide, but has pupils in Eclipse and The Sight. Bramblestar is portrayed with a pale chest in his manga appearances, and his coloring is different in the cover appearances as well. Lionblaze has several different colorings as well, and he is portrayed with a literal mane at the end of Crowfeather's Trial. Leafpool looks completely different on both The Forgotten Warrior and Twilight, and I could go on. But basically, tl;dr, there are so many inconsistencies in the official art. What do we use? Do we use actual pixel art for the toggles, the covers for the toggles, which designs do we decide on? 00:55, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps we could use the most recent portrayal (for example Firestar in The Last Hope (?)). It kind of makes sense, after all.

I think we should use the Ultimate Guide for the main official art. It is fairly recent and it is a comprehensive source for all of the important characters in Warriors. After all, it is called the Ultimate Guide. :)  SPO OKY FI RE  16:03, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

I'm all for to have a toggle for official artwork chararts. I like Hawkey's idea to use the Ultimate Guide. It seems like a safe base line to use. And are we doing this for all blanks (kit, apprentice, warrior etc) for each character shown with an official artwork, or just the "main" blank, such as Firestar's leader image since he's mostly known as the leader of ThunderClan idk. 20:47, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

I think we could do official artwork chararts for the ranks they were shown in. For example Into the Wild shows Firestar as an apprentice so he should get an apprentice image based on the official artwork. And as for replacing existing charart I don't think it should be done because the official art doesn't reflect how the character's appearance is described in the books.

On a side note too I think "artistic design" is misleading because it sounds like it's a fan's own interpretation of the character without evidence from the book. I think a more fitting name for the toggle would be something like "in-book description" vs "official depiction". And a problem with doing chararts for official art on the new book covers is that the lighting is very tinted. It'd be impossible to accurately colorpick off of those. Perhaps we should just have a toggle for the actual official art and the charart?

I agree with Fox. My vote is to do a toggle between the official art and the charart, but not alter the chararts to look like the official art.  SPO OKY FI RE  14:30, October 22, 2018 (UTC)

I guess the main question now is whether we should make new chararts with patterns the same as the official art. Now that I think about it, if we have a toggle with the official depiction won't it be sort of pointless to make new chararts?

pixels for matching the official art would be pointless. people can just refer to the official art if they want to see how it is canonically. and no, we shouldn't alter our chararts to match the official art, because that's also pretty pointless. 20:17, October 26, 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. Though by the same vein, I think we should also remove alts regarding manga art because readers can just refer to that too.

Request to leave the project
I'm very sorry for wasting everyone's time but I am leaving the project. I wasn't able to be online because of school and being sick so my image was declined. Understand I'm not saying it shouldn't have been declined - if the project guidelines say someone's hard work must be thrown away if they don't respond for a mere week then this is completely a mistake on my part.

Note: I'm not trying to accuse any particular member of the project nor do I mean to start a fight; all the members of project characters are simply doing their jobs. What I'm trying to do is make the admins aware of my feelings and protest against what, to me, is an injustice. Yes, I may feel angry at them but I won't hold my grudge and still respect them for all the effort and time they put into making this wiki good. They had no reason to suspect I was still working on the image. I'll still make edits to the wiki but remain silently in the background so don't expect a follow-up. Please don't let one internetter's saltiness spoil your day! Goodbye, everyone! 15:47, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

Sorry that happened to you, Rainbow. I agree the rules on timing shouldn't be so harsh because everyone has lives outside of the wiki and sometimes people just aren't able to come online or work on an image, as much as they'd like to. Hopefully we can make things more flexible in that area in the future.  HA WK FI RE98  15:52, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

if you wish to suggest an extension to the time limit for uploads, you can do so. 01:43, September 29, 2018 (UTC)

The reason why we have a one week limit is so that users who do have time to make a charart will have the chance to. It's not really fair to have someone just sitting on their project when others could be doing it. I understand your frustrations though. As said above, if you do wish to suggest an extension, you are free to do so. 20:49, September 29, 2018 (UTC)

The one week limit isn't an injustice. It's clearly stated in various places that you have one week to upload. It prevents people from hoarding images and not working on them. Quite frankly, your message comes off as rude and entitled. Rules are rules, and posting messages like this won't solve anything. If we make exceptions, everyone is going to want one for every little excuse they can come up with.

All due respect, Rainbow is just bringing up a point and we need to understand where they are coming from rather than calling their message rude and entitled. Rainbow, I understand that you have an issue with the one week image rule - perhaps bring that up for a discussion and we can see what we can do? I understand that some people have valid reasons not to work on their image for a week and that it may be hurtful just to see them declined when they had a valid reason, so if you bring up a discussion, we may be able to talk about this and see if we can change something. I do wish you the best of luck, though, and I apologize that you did not have a good experience in PCA. 20:21, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

I do agree with Icy - Rainbow's message was incredibly respectful and she was just trying to bring up an issue she felt was unfair. I think in addition to making a discussion, artists could make an announcement on their image? I know some people do that but some artists pop in and say "hey, heads up, I won't be available in the coming days but I will do my best to get back to this!" I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to bring this up to discussion, seeing as the wikia is a hobby for everyone here and a lot of people have outside obligations and may feel unfairly hurt by the time limit. 20:25, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

Graying Muzzles
Hello! I had a thought that I wanted to share with the project. When cats get to StarClan (as mentioned numerous times in the books), they are no longer aging or old; they look young and strong again. How come characters like Poppydawn and Graypool have graying muzzles (due to age) in their StarClan images?  SPO OKY FI RE  20:08, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

Unless you have proof that an individual cat gets younger when they go to StarClan, it'll have to stay as-is. It's been said before that a cat goes at whatever age they felt happiest, I do believe. They have the gray muzzles due to us never finding proof that they were young again in StarClan.

Tribe Of Endless Hunting Blank
I'm going to put this straight: we should have a Tribe of Endless Hunting blank. I don't see why we don't. Darkshadowthe1 (talk) 22:23, October 16, 2018 (UTC)

I second this. If we have a StarClan blank, which is parallel to the concept of the Tribe of Endless Hunting, we should give it a blank also.  SPO OKY FI RE  23:41, October 16, 2018 (UTC)

I believe the reason we have StarClan blanks and not TEH blanks is because StarClan cats do not keep their rank when they join StarClan, while TEH cats do. I cound be wrong, though. 03:40, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Blue, they don't need blanks. They keep their ranks when they die. Minkclaw Winter is coming. 04:02, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

What do you mean, they keep their ranks? They are still cave guards and prey hunters? It is the same with StarClan cats. However, it has been a while since I read Moonrise/Outcast/Sign of the Moon, so my memory is not fresh. 11:38, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

Is there any confirmation that TEH cats keep their ranks? If there is, we could still have the blank and put a note saying that Example Where Examples Exist is still a caveguard in TEH. Darkshadowthe1 (talk) 12:18, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

Agreeing with Icy, while they do keep their ranks, StarClan cats do too, so it's a kinda moot point. Since it's basically the same case, I don't see why they can't get a blank (though idk if we have enough tribe kits for the separate kit blank thing) 13:21, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

I see no reason why TEH couldn't get blanks of their own. If StarClan also keeps its previous ranks after death but we don't allow a Tribe one for the same reason, why bother even having a StarClan blank?

14:04, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

Agreeing here, I know we've had a lot of blanks, but this one really makes sense Malina457 (talk) 00:04, October 19, 2018 (UTC)

I always wanted to say this, but when I got to this page, I forgot :P but I agree ~RAR =^.,.^= Im spoopy kittan! 23:58, October 20, 2018 (UTC)

Haven't read the books in a long time but wasn't it said that StarClan had no hierarchy? That kind of implies that they lost their ranks so they're basically an entire new group on its own? In contrast cats in the Tribe of Endless Hunting keep their rank so wouldn't TEH not be a new rank?

Archives
Guys, I know I've said this at least a dozen times before. Please start making archives for images, especially tweaked ones. There's no reason an archive needs 50 sections. The most they should have is 20-25. Too many results in page lags and images not loading, and bundled with the text on said pages, it doesn't do well for many devices.

Again, please start making archives for every 20-25 sections... not 50.

Question about Requesting Characters
I know I have commented about this before and since I've been gone for a good while and come back to this page to see that my question hadn't been answered (it probably was, but the section I asked in, was removed). Someone told me when requesting a character, I would have to go the official Character Project page to request. Though I don't see anywhere that I could ask for a character I would like to do (and seeing that The Raging Storm's Allegiances are up, I want to do something for one character). I would like to know what I have to do so I don't bother anyone in the future! Queen 22:30, October 23, 2018 (UTC)Que enO fTh isSh ip

To reserve a character, you have to join the project and put your name on the reservation table along with what you want to reserve. Fyi, you can't reserve charart needed for TRS until it's official release date. On November 6th, 12am Wikia time you can reserve charart for the book. 23:08, October 23, 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for answering this question for me. Though, I don't fully understand the intention of reserving a character at the time of the book release. I know what character I want to do and since they finally have a description (as I understand characters don't get their art unless they have a description), it seems a bit unfair to have someone wait for a month when they could do that character's art at right now. I understand rules, but, like I said, a bit unfair. Though, Thank you.

Queen 23:16, October 23, 2018 (UTC) Que enO fTh isSh <font color="#f09f23">ip

I'm sure there's a better and more specific answer, but I always saw it as a nice gesture. To have a common start time so everyone's on board and ready to charart again. This project has a lot of lulls at times between book releases. Some users only become active again when a book is released. I always saw it as a nice restart so everyone can get a chance to reserve the one they want at the same time. It is first come, first serve, however. But that doesn't stop you from doing the charart on your computer. You just can't upload it to the wiki yet :) Again, there's probably a more specific reason. 23:28, October 23, 2018 (UTC)

It does not matter if we know their descriptions yet, nor does it matter if the allegiances are already out. We have to wait for the book release, we cannot just do charart even if the allegiances are out. That is considered spoilers, and the book is not even out yet. So when the book is out, that is when you can reserve chararts. It is simply unfair to be able to reserve chararts for a book that is not out yet. 23:29, October 23, 2018 (UTC)

Anyway, I can't seem to put my name on the reservation table without messing it up. Could someone who actually knows what they're doing, do it lol. So once my username is on there when the date comes for the book release, I just but what character I want in the "Original" spot?

Queen 00:30, October 24, 2018 (UTC) <font color="#cf242a">Que <font color="#df3d2b">enO <font color="#e46825">fTh <font color="#ed9522">isSh <font color="#f09f23">ip

I added you. Remember, you can only reserve 1 charart at a time, so choose wisely, and yes. Wikia runs on UTC time and you can reserve characters at midnight, November 6th Wikia time. 00:36, October 24, 2018 (UTC)

Daylight warriors
I was thinking about this, and dont be afraid to just say no you dont like this idea, I wont take it as rude, but I think we should have a Daylight Warrior blank, I see how people may not like this idea, but I just wanted to state my mind. It is okay to have warriors with colers, but I think daylight warriors should get a blank. (for those who dont know, Daylight warriors are Skyclan cats who half the time are warriors, half Kittypet)<font color="#ffffff"> <font face="Tempus Sans ITC">~RAR =^.,.^= Im spoopy kittan! 19:23, October 28, 2018 (UTC)