Warriors Wiki talk:Charart/Archive 73

Things That Are Artist's Choice
I was checking through the guidelines and noticed *unless I'm blind* they didn't say anything about what exactly is artist's choice on a charart. Shouldn't they be established and added for future members/refrence? 21:52, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Fur length (unless it's WindClan or RiverClan), eye color, pale underbellies, shading placement, ect.

It doesn't need to be added to the guidelines. I'm confident that you guys can figure out what's artist's choice or not, and if it isn't we'll tell you. 21:56, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

I was just thinking it should be added because it would be a lot easier then repeating it to who-knows-how many new users each time they ask.. 00:40, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I find nothing wrong with a small section of the guidelines being added that says what exactly is artist's choice and what isn't. When I first joined, I had someone tell me (not sure who) that the default eye color was blue for characters that didn't have an eye color that was cited. I didn't actually know there wasn't a specific color until months later.

There's no harm done, but I'm not sure it's fully necessary. Most of the things that are the artists choice is scattered throughout the whole guidelines, but it probably would help other users. 07:23, 14, 05, 2012

I think it will benifet users making art, it would tell them what is their choice to do, so they don't have to be put under pressure of looking through the guidelines multiple times when it's not necessary. Sincerely: ChanCharm 03:24, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Have we come to a conclusion on this? 09:23, 06, 06, 2012

One Last Proposal Before I Go
Ah, hey guys. something came to mind right after I posted my message... and I couldn't ignore it. I'll just be making this proposal and leaving you guys to deal with it how you see fit.

It's pretty simple. I think there should be a chart on the front page of PCA with blank slots for users not in the project to use to reserve chararts if they wish to do so without joining.

So have fun with that. 02:18, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

I could've sworn that you could just add yourself into the chart (not the members table, though). It's what I did a year and half-odd ago. 02:21, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

That's what I did when I first found PCa too. I made a charart or two and just added my name without joining. 03:36, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but having a second chart would make it more obvious to users that they can do that. Many don't have a clue. 108.4.1.7 04:33, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's necessary. Even though most users aren't so good with coding, they could always ask a lead, and we rarely get non-member users to offer charart. :/ 06:50, 07, 05, 2012

"Rarely" doesn't mean "never". I don't see any problem with having an open slot on the reservation chart. It'd be better then having the user think they need too join, submit one charart, then be removed due to inactivity. 18:42, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Sure, there's no problem in having it up there, but it still could be hard to work... But that's just my opinion. 07:50, 14, 05, 2012

Well, the second chart would certainly make it easier to keep track if non-members wanted to do a charart but wouldn't want to join/haven't joined yet. I guess it sounds like a pretty good idea. 10:01, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

Why not? ChanCharm 03:26, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Have we come to a conclusion on this? 09:23, 06, 06, 2012

Realism? Redos? Tweaks?
Okay. So as we know, PCA has been trying hard to make/redo/tweak images to look realistic. I understand that realism is important-it gives our veiwers a better sense of what a warriors character could look in real life, or so. There have been many debates and discussion so far about realistic images and non-realistic images. First, traingle tabbies aren't accepted in PCA anymore. Second, wavy tabbies, y-tabbies.

We are working to get realistic tabbies, right?

The only thing is that, there are only so little kinds of tabbies that are natural/realistic. I personally think that we should be able to make different kinds of tabbies (not triangle or Y-tabbies, however), that are personalized so that that tabby represents you're style of tabbies. See, art is not perfect, not bad. As this is something that requires creativity and art, I think that we shouldn't be too serious about these things (this is just my opinion, I'm not demanding for PCA to be like this...), like realism. Also, well, some people just may be better in a certain kind of charart (like tabby tortie, bi-color, ect..), but in a different style they may have more trouble with. All PCA members try their absolute best in my opinion, so if somebody just isn't the best at torties (like me) or so, I think we shouldn't redo their images...But keep them in honor of the artist's hard work for PCA. Redoing images...I'm not sure if that's always the best idea. With tweaking, that's different. You improve the image while still keeping the OA's style so it could still be seen. Also, styles should be artist's choice...right?

I also kinda think that sometimes, we take the realism thing too far...*sighs*

Pretty much, I think that we should perhaps have a page that says what qualifies for a redo. I'd like to have less redoing of images, so we could still honor the OA's image, but it could still be tweaked and still have the OA's style there (or just a similar style). What I think that would qualify for a redo would be: Triangle tabby (full triangle tabby, not counting modified), Y-tabby, and an image that is just...Not done properly or completed (extremely blotchy shading).

Also...Images that may not be realistic fully, but still fine, would just be tweaks.

Sorry if I wasn't clear on all of this, I wasn't concentrating too much...So, Feedback, opinions, and suggestions? 06:48, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I think we might have taken this a bit too far too. Although I like realism, in my experience; users who view images don't really pay much attention to realism, just how the character looks pretty much. I'd try to make it as realistic and creative as possible, but we can't help it to redo triangle and y tabbies like Stoney said. Giving it some thought, I think Silverstream's and Jake's tabby style, there probally would be more tweaks, was okay. (Even though I <3333 the newer images too) but eh, that's my thoughts. 09:02, 09, 05, 2012

Yup! All images are epic in they're own way! And yeah, I think that newer users/anons pay more attention to the charart's style, but that doesn't mean that we can't neglect realism. Yeah, I guess we're not taking it too far with the realism, however, I just feel that we should honor the OA's hard work a bit more by redoing less images, but more tweaking. 15:03, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we'be taken the realism thing too far... There's still a lot of chararts that get approved now-a-days that aren't exactly possible in the real world. I personally think the rules (for lack of a better word) for redos should be higher and more focused on things like; triangular tabbies, y-tabbies, not fitting the characters description, overblurred areas, ect. Of course no art can be bad. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But we can't focus so much on what looks good rather then what is realistic. Yes, anons and visitors arent going to be looking for 100% realistic art on the characters pages, but that doesn't mean we need to ignore realism and just keep the chararts that look the best. I don't exactly understand how we can tweak images instead of redoing them if they qualify for a redo. Maybe smudge the stripes? I know when I look at my cat I see pointed stripes, but they're way to smudged within his pelt. So maybe we can start doing things like that instead of redoing them completely? Just my thoughts/opinions. 18:05, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Mhmm. I don't believe that redoing some completely is always right. Yeah, we should redo triangle and y-tabbies, but with the smudge tool, it's actually possible to make the stripes look more realistic than unrealistic. 18:11, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I don't exactly agree with some of the redoing either. I've seen some chararts get redone simply because the artist didn't like it, which is why I suggested the higher stakes *having a bad wording day* for redoing. And the smudging tool could be an easy solution for not redoing so many images. A tabby's pattern is almost never so perfect and defined as we draw them here. 18:49, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, we need to make hit harder to qualify for a redo. I think that, besides realism, there needs to be at least something else that needs redoing, like bad shading or things along those lines, before it can be redone. It's kinda sad when some of these gorgeous chararts are given a total rehaul because they have some marking that can't exist. Breeze whisker  01:54, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think the smudging is a good ground for a tweak. But sometimes we can't help it if we need to redo anothers charart. 08:26, 10, 05, 2012

Now that you mention it, realism doesn't always come first. There are so many beautiful chararts out there that don't deserve to be redone due to unrealistic. As long as they match the description it's okay. If they are a triangle/y tabby, they should be redone, but we seemed to have covered most of those, so it shouldn't be a problem. If it is really unrealistic and it's not either of those tabbies listed above, smudging is a good point. And if it needs to be redone, we could ask the original artist if it's okay to redo their work. ChanCharm 03:37, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Good point, ChanCharm. For redoing, it's maybe most fair for the OA to redo their own image - that way, their style will still be represented in the charart, because they did it. 04:20, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Have we come to a conclusion on this? 09:23, 06, 06, 2012

I (insert tweak here), and that's all I'm doing
I've noticed a lot of artists putting this such comment when they tweak the shading, add scars, etc., and then when someone asks them to do something unrelated to the image they refuse. But why not just do everything that needs to be done while the images is up? If it's done right away, that same image won't have to be nominated again for something that could've been fixed weeks ago. So all I'm suggesting is that tweakers should do all that's asked of them, not just what's laid out in the nomination.

Please note that this isn't directed at anyone in particular, I've just been noticing it a lot. 17:44, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

I think it depends on the tweak. However, if something's that bad, an artist should have already noticed it and did their best to fix it. It says in the guidelines that it's artist's choice whether or not to fix according to someone's suggestion...and that's basically what this is. xD

I agree with Oblivion. When people say things like 'I'm only tweaking the shading' or something along those lines and something else, like the earpink, is brought up it gives them the choice to totally ignore the suggestion, yes they have the choice to do whatever they want, but why not just get it done? I'm not really sure how that came out, but I'm not refering to anyone personally its just an example. 19:41, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, I think if the artist sees something wrong when they're tweaking the image, they'll fix it (I've done that sometimes). When nominating images for tweaking, people should list all the problems of the image that need fixing, and if the nominator doesn't cover all the problems, then somebody could just comment on the nomination if there's something else that needs tweaking. 21:01, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

I think that the artist should fix anything that was listed to be fixed. Before the nomination passes, users should comment if the nominator didn't add that flaw in. 21:24, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. It sort of bugs me when there is something else to tweak and the artist refuses to do it. Also if there is other issues the artist can see then they'd probably fix it, and you can't really list everything (mainly in the Approved Tweaks section) that needs to be tweaked. 06:23, 28, 05, 2012

I could have sworn there was a conversation about this before...e.e But yeah, if it needs tweaking, why not do it and prevent the inage from having to be nominated over and over again? It saves time and space on the tweak page. Skt Like a baws  10:30, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

While I semi-agree that users should tweak more than they're originally asked when asked once the image is up, I feel like users commenting must also keep in mind that the image was passed through the project via a 'CBA' and an approval. "Define the earpink", "Blur the earpink"", etc., sorry but all of a sudden, the earpink is wrong now when a few days/months ago, it was perfectly fine. I know techniques change all the time as well as opinions, but honestly? Users should keep in mind that tweaked art has already gone through the project, and the project has approved it. -my two cents- 21:14, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

If the earpink is "off" then it should be listed in the reasons for tweaking. I kinda agree with you Teldy, it's sort of like the guideline how an image can't be nominated just for the earpink. But if it is off and wasn't listed, I guess it depends on what needs fixing and how badly. 09:36, 04, 06, 2012

Owl Feather alt?
Wouldn't Owl Feather get an alt for being called mottled in TLH, or is it to close to her actual description to count for and alt. 04:41, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

No, speckled and mottled are just different descriptions of how the spots on her pelt lay and how sharp they are. It is notable to be put in her trivia, but it doesn't call for an alt. 04:48, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Ratscar alt.2?
Would Ratscar get an alt. for being called fox red, or is that to close to russett? If it is, can I have him? 11:23, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, fox red pretty much is russet. So no, I don't believe this would warrant another alt. 11:33, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Agreeing with Dazzle, russet basically is fox red. 17:47, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

May I join?
May I join Project Charart? Pokemonlps2  is here   to be awesome.  18:15, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Sure! I'll add you in momentarily. Please look at our guidelines, tutorials and the mentor program. Have fun! 18:21, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Pokemonlps2  is here   to be awesome.  18:28, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Join Request
This is a request to be on the PCA. I relize last time i was not an active member but this was because of school. I would just like 1 more chance to be on the PCA. 17:05, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

Of course you can join! Next time, add a heading for your message. Take a look at our guidelines, tutorials and the mentor program. Have fun! 17:32, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

Leafstar alt.
Why isn't Leafstar's alt. for being described as white with tabby patches on her page? 20:58, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

Let's see if I can remember...I believe it was removed for being the image of a book cover. I believe we had the same case as Sol, whose book cover alts. were removed as well. 23:55, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

Join Request
I was so sure I joined the PCA a year or so ago... but I never was on the list... o.o

Anyways, I've taken a spiritual journey [WSW *cough cough*] to improve my writing and charart. Will you guys have me? :3  Millie  Purple   is   Perfection  11:24, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Welcome back Millie, enjoy our guidelines, tutorials and mentor program. :) 09:19, 14, 06, 2012

I'd like to rejoin...
Hey, it's Lakewillow! I was a member a while ago, but I'd like to rejoin Project Character Art. I was also wondering how much it costs to download programs like Pixlr and GIMP.Lakewillow 22 13:51, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Costs? Pixlr and GIMP are free, you don't need to download Pixlr, but you do need to download GIMP ;) 19:39, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Pixlr, GIMP. Welcome back Lakewillow! Refresh your mind with the guidelines, tutorials and request a mentor at the mentor program. 09:19, 14, 06, 2012

WindClan
Is there a reason all the WindClan cats are short-haired? LiL Luv Chocolate 14:43, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

WindClan cats are generally short-haired in their descriptions in the book, which is something along the lines of "WindClan cats are fast and agile with their thin, short pelts that blend well with the moorland grasses". Unless their description tells us otherwise, like with Whitetail, they're made short-haired. 16:06, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Hawkyfootwarrior - Join Request
May I join the project?

Hawkyfootwarrior 18:14, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Of course you can. :) Take a look at our guidelines, tutorials and the mentor program. Welcome! 09:19, 14, 06, 2012

On Hiatus for a week.
I will be gone for about a week becauese my family is going through a very tough time... Thanks for understanding... However, I may pop on once in a while. Again, thanks for understanding. Pokemonlps2 19:28, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Have a nice break, but or future reference, you don't have to post things like that on the talk page. simple add your name to the vacation list at the bottom of the charart page. 22:35, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Nightstar Elder?
Should Nightstar get an elder image? He was mentioned many times as an elder, and was part of the group of ShadowClan that was forced to live on the edge of their territory. That group was made up of elders. I would like it if he gets one. 00:30, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think he should get one. The thing is, although he was elderly, he didn't formally retire and become an elder. Besides, if he were truly an elder, he almost definitely wouldn't have been selected for leader. 00:45, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

I though Firestar's narration said something along the lines of him fighting well, and that he hadn't been made a leader for nothing despite him being an elder. Breeze whisker  02:45, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

As Kitsu has said before (and maybe above, not sure if her comment's been archived yet), it is PCA's job to supply the character art. It is Project Character's job to supply the decisions of ranks and roles. If he's not listed as an elder on his page, then Nightstar doesn't get one. 03:18, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Nightstar has been cited as an elder. He does in fact get an elder charart. Do not undo any reservations of said charart. Stormboot just reserved it and Stormboot gets to do it. 18:44, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

If he's been cited, by all means, she gets the image. I didn't actually know if we decided he was getting one or not, and that's why I reverted the edit. My bad, sorry.

It's cool. Just making sure. 18:47, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Join Request
so......apparently i was gone for too long, and i vanished from the list..... so i'd like to rejoin. and i'm sorry for vanishing; i promise it won't happen again. :( 00:50, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Sure! I'll add you in. Please look at our guidelines, tutorials and the mentor program. Have fun! 20:19, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Rejoin :3
May I rejoin? 01:38, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Sure! Welcome back, Ducksauce. (:3) Please look at our guidelines, tutorials and the mentor program. Have fun! 20:21, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Join Request
Hey, is it alright if I join? This project seems pretty interesting :)

- Perishsong 20:13, June 15, 2012 (UTC)Perishsong

Sure! I'll add you in. Please look at our guidelines, tutorials and the mentor program. Have fun! 20:18, June 15, 2012 (UTC)