Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Colour example?
I was wondering if we could have a colour example image. I don't know if anybody knows what I mean, but sometimes when you're commenting on an image and you want the artist to change the earpink to a different colour or adjust the pelt colour, you can't properly describe what colour you mean, so you post an image (like I did under Mosspelt's tweaked image). However, once the image is finished and archived, your colour-reference image ends up floating around and taking up space if it doesn't get a delete tag. I was wondering if we could have a designated image that you can just reupload your colour onto for reference, so we don't end up cluttering the wiki with these random colour squares. Obviously it wouldn't be used very commonly, but it would be helpful for keeping clutter to a minimum. I dunno. Maybe this is a flawed idea... You tell me. Opinions? 01:46 Sat Oct 22

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're talking about having one image that would have a specific name and you would just reupload this image with a new color when needed? Sorry, I'm a bit confused at what you are asking Dx 01:48, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Sorry for confusion :3 01:52 Sat Oct 22

Hm, I see what your saying (i hope) But what if two people use the image at the same time, like one person posts a color for earpnk. And then somebody else uploads over with another color for eye color, for instance, blue, and posts under another image for approval. So the other person working on the other image and comes on seeing a person suggesting "blue" for earpink and be all like "wtf??" So, should it be only available to upload over once the image is archived? (Sorry if I was vague ^^;;) 02:04, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

We could have a section on the tutorail that have hex code examples. Then we dont need an image at all. 18:28, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Point, Guardian. Let's use Moonleaf's and my situation as an example. I figured that I could (when reuploading the image) add in the description section what the reupload was for, so when Moonleaf saw the image, she would check the image details and look at the proper version of the upload. If that makes any sense, nod your head XD Iceheart: for some people hex codes are really confusing, and I feel it'd be easier to just have one image that people can save and then colour-pick. 21:16 Sat Oct 22

I think we should just fix the pelt-to-earpink chart. For example, there is RED on the chart. There is not such thing as a pure-blood-red cat. I've used the earpink off of there and sometime it is incorrect. What say we just tweak that instead, for every pelt color ever used? And maybe the color of that pelt type as well (such as tawny or bracken for those of us who hardly know what those colors are). That way, a person could just color-pick off that :3  04:49, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Well the image wouldn't just be for earpink, see? It would be for pelt colours and earpink and eye colours and anything else. Also, you can't really have a chart for every pelt colour ever used. 00:40 Mon Oct 31

I think when you're doing a charart that you just remember to color pick the colors off the chart(s). 05:26, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, but what if you're doing an original image? And you make the image a greeny-brown, but because you've been working on it for so long, you don't even recognize it as being that greeny-brown colour anymore, so when people ask you to make it browner or whatever, you change it slightly, but it doesn't make a difference. What then? Then the designated image comes in handy. 05:32 Mon Oct 31

Good point Wildheart, well shouldn't you color pick it off the chart anyway? I think the chart needs some tweaking, and a suggestion, you could make a chart and next to the color on the chart write something like, recommended for dark brown cats or such. What if like Guradian said, someone uploads a new color over the color ment for the artist? Wildheart, what is you opinion now? Are you still supporting your idea when you first posted or do you have some change of plans? DJCandyBud 06:44, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not saying we shouldn't tweak the chart for earpink vs. pelt colours, but I'm saying we should also have the example image. I already addressed the issue Guradian raised in my previous comments. 06:56 Mon Oct 31

Don't we already have color example images though? DJCandyBud 07:15, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I just used that once on one image. Other people upload other colours with different filenames, and that creates clutter. I'm proposing that we have one specified image that people can just reupload over so that we don't get that previously-mentioned clutter. We could put it on the apprentice tutorials. 07:23 Mon Oct 31

Actually, now I agree with this, but I do have some doubt's, I just can't explain them though. 02:43, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

I think I must have misunderstood you Wildheart, I'm just confused that when someone posts the color they need to use, are we going to post the actual image like this >> or like this >>  I think it would be better if we do so the second way I showed, that way as you said, if we post in the comments about the image, it will probally say earpink for DJCandyBud's Firestar (L) for approval (I just used that as an example). DJCandyBud 03:39, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

You got it. That's exactly what I mean. 00:15 Thu Nov 3

Ya sounds good. Someone want to tweak the earpink chart? Ivystripe? 00:26, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

Torties and Calicos
Should torties and calicos with orange/ginger patches have stripes on those patches? As we've discussed, all ginger cats are tabbies, even those that are only partially ginger. 19:22, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

I think they can, but they dont need to be redone to have stripes, just tweaked. 19:24, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

It's the artist's choice, really, to either add in stripes or not. Cause Ive seen some pictures on calicos with orange with no stripes (or maybe sometimes the stripes are just not noticable) 19:35, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

That cat had stripes. Look at its head. 19:36, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

I personally think we shouldn't bother tweaking them. I've seen plenty of torties without a tabby stripes, and they have ginger in them. And Shelly, all cats have that tabby M on the head, it doesn't neccesarily mean it's a tabby. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  21:42, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

I think we don't need to add stripes. In Hawaii, there was a calico, and there were no stripes. 23:22, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

If we're going to get techincal, then yes, but only facial markings. The general portion of their body doesn't have them and they are so faint, it seems a tad tedious. However, a torbie cat is a tabby/tortie or calico and should get stripes, but only if they were described as such. 02:11, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

So no redoing/tweaking is needed, correct? 19:45, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Ivystripe, but do all cats have that 'tabby M' on their head, as in charart cats? 06:23, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Was this discussion ever resolved? 00:48 Mon Oct 31

Most torties/calico's with ginger patches without the stripes look fine without them, and a tortie/calico is a completely different thing than a ginger cat. So I say no. DJCandyBud 07:01, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Its the artists chioce. 00:27, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

Wait
Wait for the new apprentice blanks, does it count as a tweak or a regular charart? 19:57, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Tweak. Simple as that. 19:58, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

So they actaully aren't going to be redone? (as in apprentices can't do them xD)

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  00:34, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if they'll be tweaks or if they'll be redone or if they'll qualify as a regular charart, but the blank is radically different from the old apprentice blank, so you can't just layer the new lineart over. 00:38 Mon Oct 24

Yeah, I thought we agreed it'd be a whole new project that EVERYBODY gets to do? I think that is only fair. 00:44, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

I don't remember being a part of that discussion, Ivy. Unless it was decided when I wasn't around. I guess it doesn't matter, does it? Tweak, whole new approval. Eh. Whatever. 00:46, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Ugh, TWO edit conflicts. XD Wait, you've seen it Wildy? Is it up now? Did I miss something? O.O *looks around anxiously* And I would think they would go on the approval page. That's what happened with the Prey hunter blanks, and those were just tweaked, not redone. And I remember that being said too Cloudy, you probably weren't here. :P ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  00:48, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

I hate edit conflicts XD I've seen it just 'cause Iceheart keeps on sending it to me with comments like "What should I change before I put it up for approval??" :P It's not up. 01:17 Mon Oct 24

So does anyone know the real answer? xD

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  19:10, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know for sure, but I think all images should be up for grabs, meaning it would count as an original image and not a redone image. There wouldn't be any tweaking involved. However, I don't have the final say. Iceheart? 04:41 Tue Oct 25

I'm not sure, I'd think it be a tweak because it's getting redone, but if the new blanks are different than the old ones like Wildheart said, then it should be a start from scratch charart, so all users can use them. 06:20, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

I think they should count as new chararts any way, because there's a lot, and we'd all need as much help we could get. 22:42, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

The original intetion was to be free game for everyone, and that seems like a lot of work for just warriors and leads. And ya Ivystripe Wildheart and Cloudskye have all had to deal with me emailing them the pictures and begging for advice. Theyre almost ready, but we arent working with them until April. 01:46, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

So it counts as a regualr charart? I'm a tad confused Dx 23:20, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

It seems that way, Sweet. But, we will not be using them until TFH comes out. 23:21, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

I was just confused since I saw them all on the tweak list...

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  16:16, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

They were just placed there so we wouldn't have to start up a new page to list the images that would need re-doing. 05:11, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry new here but what is the new blank thing? DJCandyBud 07:21, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

We decided to redo the apprentice blanks 'cause they're illogical. So all the old apprentice images are going to need to be redone. 07:25 Mon Oct 31

I'm ignorant, I know, but when exactly are we going to start re-doing apprentices with the new blanks? Some people are telling me it's not until next year, and others are saying it's not until The Forgotten Warrior comes out... 20:24, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

It'd make sense for them to get own as soon as possible. We need to get them out, and ready to get done. I would like them to be out as TFW comes out, but you'd have to get the direct details from Iceheart :P -- 20:45, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't concern me when the new blanks are ready, as long as it's not way into the future, and that Iceheart is working on them, which is true. It's ready when it's ready. And perhaps we shouldn't use the words tweak(ed) and redo(ne) when we talk about the new blanks. That's what gets users confused. I know it's not up to me to make the decisions, but that's my point of seeing this confusion thing. 02:52, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Oh okay, I can se they are unrealistic. DJCandyBud 03:31, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Alternate Colors
Okay, so this may be already discussed before...but of course, I wouldn't know...

Anyway, if a character was officialy descripted as "Gray tabby" (No shades included) and it was then mistakenly described as dark gray/light gray (No tabby stripes included) could it get an alt?

Also, what is the major differences with Tawny/Bracken/Red-brown shades?

Thanks and I hope I don't sound too stupid--. 04:15, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, we discussed this before. No, simply specifying from a general color doesn't constitute that an alternate be made. We don't make an alt every time Firestar isn't called a flame-colored tom, so there's no reason to do it with every little thing. 04:23, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

wouldnt you consider "Dark gray tabby" and "Solid light gray" a large difference? . 04:29, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but those are opposite ends of the spectrum. However, if you're going from just gray to dark gray or light gray, then it's just specifying what type of gray they are, and in that case the main charart should be tweaked. 04:31, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I also mean, a tabby mistakenly described as solid, would it get an alt with no stripes disregaurding colors? . 04:33, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I wouldnt think the authors would say their full descriptions everytime they refer to a cat. They just shorten it to make it easier for themselves. I wouldnt be surprised if half the tabbies were "mistakenly" described as without teh stripes - 04:35, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Of course, but mainly I am suggesting matters when it is definatly desbrided as solid oppose to tabby. . 04:37, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yea, but we figured it wasnt too much of a difference without the stripes, wether described as dark or light. - 04:42, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Mousefur got an alt for being described as a brown tabby, when she's usually not (I would know, 'cause I made it). Isn't this the same thing, just reversed? 04:46, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

No, Cloudy, not even close. Let's use Brambleclaw as an example. He's a brown cat with darker brown stripes. If he was described as "brown", it would include his pelt colour as well as his stripes. As apposed to Mousefur, who is a solid brown. If she was described with stripes, that's an error because she never had them in the first place. As for the whole "dark gray stripes, dark gray tom/she-cat", they're the exact same thing. Unless the Erins said "solid gray" (which they never do, by the way), it wouldn't get an alternate. 18:46, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, matter settled, I think. Oblivion, you explained that quite well. 18:51, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I think you guys are missing something though, Feather's talking about if they're described as a different SHADE, as well as without tabby stripes. Like, take oblivion's example, except, Brambleclaw's mentioned as LIGHT brown instead of just brown. Would he get an alternate for that? I would think he would. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  19:24, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Exacily. Thanks, Paleh-- for pointing that out. :3 . 00:50, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

I'd say if they were mentioned as a different shade than their official color/color said in the allegiances, then it wouldn't make a difference. Although if they were constantly described as a dark gray and then mistakenly later described as a light gray, then I think they should get an alternate for that. And I've got a question thats related to this discussion, what if they were described as a dakr gray, and then described as a light gray, and it kept on going back and forth, you wouldn't get anywhere, and if the official shade was never revealed, what would you do? 05:47, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

IYesh. And as for at the end, if they never revealed a shade, I think it would just be plain instead of Light/Dark. Am I right? . 21:45, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that makes sence. 05:27, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Crookedstar
Would Crookedstar get an alt for his coloring in Cats of the Clans? I think he should, and I think we should use his old approved image. I'm going to go ahead and reserve it just in case we decide he needs a new image because I love him so much, but I think the old image would be good for his alt. Comments? 17:49, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I have an issue with this. Not with you doing the alternate leader - go right ahead - but with Crookedstar's images in general. His kit and apprentice don't match his leader, deputy, etc. Now, I know that we won't do his apprentice until the blank is done, but what about his kit? I looked and it seems that his kit was tweaked in July. Should it be tweaked again to match? As for you using his old leader, I personally think you should make a new one. Use the colours from his current leader and add cream to it; it'll be more enjoyable for you that way. 17:58, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Well, Icestorm is supposed to tweak his kit, so that's why his kit is different. That also reminds me too, with the apprentices sometimes being so different from redone images, should we just take the apprentice images out (such as Crookedstar and Goldenflower) so as to not confuse people? 18:00, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I say remove the apprentice images from the articles, that way people don't complain about them not matching. I see this from annoyn. users a lot, and it gets annoying. 18:02, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should just for the ons who've been tweaked majorly though, like if they match (such as Bluestar's) then it should be left alone for now. That's just my thought though 18:04, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that's a good idea. Ones like Bluestar, Dustpelt and Cloudtail would stay, but ones like Creekfeather, Crookedstar and Goldenflower would be removed. After all, those ones don't match at all. 18:08, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I like this idea. It makes me annoyed (for lack of a better word) to see inconsistencies in charart. 18:15, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I like the idea, it definatly won't be as (if it is at all) confusing to users, and annoyn. users too. 18:34, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

FAIL. I'm sorry about the kit, I forgot about that. I promise I'lk get to it, soon. 19:13, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

But wouldn't the anons wonder why there isn't an apprentice charart? Just saying. 23:52, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

They would, but if they frequent the wiki and stalk it like I did, they would know that some of the images were being removed. 15:18, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Let's go ahead and remove them. 03:33 Mon Oct 31

Working on it now. Also, if there happens to be a pelt length difference, just remove it. I don't want to hear annoyn. users complain on the talk page about "how the pelts don't match, and PCA is full of unprofessional people". >.>;; 06:40, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Cloudy is on a rampage removing alllll the apprentice art. Man, I can't wait for this big project to start. Might as well make it Project Apprentice Art and split it off! 06:45, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

That's why I'm getting rid of all of them. Just the other day, someone was complaining about Tigerstar's image. Plus, I hate it when things don't match. xD 06:51, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

OCD? Me too <3 06:57 Mon Oct 31

That should solve problems 05:31, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Talon
Talon of Swooping Eagle is light brown In Cats of The Clans, does he get an alt for that? 19:31, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Were doing Cats of The Clans alts, so that's my guess. 20:02, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Seems a bit iffy... it could have just been the lighting making his coloring look a bit different. 23:21, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Is he light brown or a light brown tabby? 03:34 Mon Oct 31

Light brown. 23:52, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, a tabby. 23:53, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

On Alts
I think we need to be a bit clearer on what constitutes an alt and what doesn't. That's just me, however.

On a similar note, I'm wondering how it is that we decide what is a mistake in descriptions and what isn't. My confusion came from comparing Willowshine's description against Redwillow's. For Redwillow we did not take into account the likelyhood that being described with a tawny head, most likely meaning he was entirely tawny, was a mistake. For Willowshine, it's entirely possible that she is either a dark or light gray tabby, but we have plain alts for both dark and light gray.

I know this may seem silly, I just want some clarification as to how this wiki goes about deciding what's a mistake and what isn't. 23:34, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I think I see what you mean, about Redwillow. You're right, it wouldn't seem like he'd have a tawny head out of nowhere. He'd probably get an alt for being plain tawny. 00:54, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

AH, thank you, Shellheart. I was thinking the same thing not too long ago. I always thought that Redwillow should've had a tawny alt, and that Willowshine should've had a specific shade from the beginning. Maybe take into account how many times she's been called light vs dark and use the one that's been used the most. Then she can have an alt for the opposite shade. <span style="">01:24 Sun Oct 30

That sounds like the most logical thing, Wildheart. I've always felt that cats should have descriptions based on what they are called most. I could go into the Dovewing's eyes debate here, but I choose not to. 01:39, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Dovewing... Yeah, let's not start that. xD But yeah, I agree with you. I've always found the Willowshine thing confusing myself... 01:41, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

So what is to be done about this? 03:19, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Well, Iceheart and the others haven't commented yet, and I'd like to hear their opinions on it as well before anything's enforced. 03:22, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Oops I forgot to add my two cents. This bugged me as well, because, say, we have a cat described as brown, but at one point he is referred as flecked. To me, it would seem to be a part of the normal description but they just forgot it, but too, we don't know what their intentions were with the cat in mind (especially minor characters)  03:26, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I say that in the end, we should always add into descriptions what would be most genetically possible. This is the decision we made with ginger stripes, is it not? So a ginger tom with a tawny head? Most likely not possible. Just because the Erins don't pay attention to genetics doesn't mean we can't. And when it comes to specific shades of a basic color like with Willowshine, we should go with whichever one came first and make an alt for the other one. So Willowshine would be a dark gray tabby, not just gray. 06:37, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Ooh, I like that. Let's go with what Shellheart said. XD <span style="">06:58 Mon Oct 31

Although, if a character was described first as a dark gray tabby (just an example), and then for the rest of the books, was described as a light gray tabby, we would probably go with the light gray tabby description. I don't know how to put that into a guideline, though... <span style="">07:00 Mon Oct 31

I'd like to get the opinion of one more lead and either Iceheart or Scareltwind before anything is done. 12:45, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

IM a science nerd so i love the idea of sticking to the genetic rules. I think this could work. 01:57, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I mean only when it comes to alts that can be questioned. We can't stick 100% to genetic laws, as the Erins do not and as there are genetic anomalies in the word. I have, in fact, seen a white cat with black paws and ears. 02:13, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Tweak Comment Rules
I'm finding issues with the rule that you're not allowed to comment on an issue on an image that has been tweaked/nominated for something entirely different. Often if someone comments on an issue, that means that there has been an issue in the first place; why should it not be tweaked? I hope we can change the rule so that if you tweak an image, people can comment on any issue with the image, and not just the ones it was nominated/tweaked for. I'm tired and can't explain what I mean so coherently, so if you're confused as to what I mean, please ask and I'll try to clarify. <span style="">01:16 Sun Oct 30

I think I'm agreeing with you on this one. If there's an tweaked image up and you see something that should most likely be fixed but was not nominated for, then you should be able to suggest the artist to fix it. 01:37, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I don't really like this... I mean, if you're only trying to fix the shading or something, but then you get told the stripes are unnatural or something....then it just creates more work. I hate it when people tell me to fix something that isn't why it was put on the tweak list. Eh, whatever. I know what you mean, and I'm on either side. I hate it, but I guess it could work out. 01:39, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

If theres something that you think theres wrong with, and that it wasnt nominated for, then it should've been in the first place. Id say the rule is fine, just that people should be more descriptive when nominating. - 01:43, October 30, 2011 (UTC) I say, if you're tweaking earpink and someone comments to blur the shading, you do it anyways. I mean, if there's something wrong with the image, you fix it. That's what tweaking's for. =p -- 02:36, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Cloudskye: I get that it creates extra work, but honestly, Splashy's right. That is exactly why I want a rule change. Bloo: Often people don't look at the list all that extensively. If someone sees a file name on the list: something that's been nominated for, say, shading, they might just assume that that's all that's wrong with it, without looking at the actual image itself. Then, when it's put up, they realize that the earpink and the stripes are off, too, and they need to be fixed, but what are you going to do? The rule really restricts that. <span style="">06:01 Sun Oct 30

I also think the rule should be changed. However, it should be up to the artist tweaking the image whether they comply with certain requests. For instance if someone asks for them to tweak the ear-pink and the image hasn't been nominated for that, the artist can refuse. (If that makes sense) 09:16, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I dunno. I think if the earpink (just as an example) has been changed many times and everybody's getting fussy over just that, then they can refuse to change it, but not right off the bat. What if the earpink is terrible and then the rule says you can't change it? Again, pretty restrictive. <span style="">03:36 Mon Oct 31

I agree to change the rule. Even though I'm not a warrior and can't tweak, it makes sense to blur the shading or whatever to make it a better image. As Splashy stated, thats what tweaking's all about. And I'd also like to point out that when your adding something to the tweak list, look carefully at the image, so if something else is wrong, you can just point it out, it avoids more confusion I believe, that is if the rule stays the same. 05:05, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, I think we should change it. Personally, I didn't even know this was a rule anyway... I've seen tons of images getting comments on something it wasn't nominated for, mine included. 19:01, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I also agree, I didn't know this was a rule. xD If something is wrong with the image, fix it, that's what were supposed to do! 21:07, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Of course, I agree. 22:43, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I change my mind, because it was put on the tweak list because of a few things, not another one. 23:00, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I'm agreeing with Wildheart on this one. Why not just fix something that needs fixed while you can? There's no point in constantly tweaking the same image just because every little thing needs fixed. 00:35, November 1, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Its the artist choice weather they tweak more than they need to or not. For a project that complains that there are to many new and rule changes, everyones pretty keen to make them happen. 01:54, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Iceheart, this is more getting a rid of a rule than anything. And I agree that we should make it so the images don't just get tweaked for the things on the list if you want to tweak something else. Like, seriously, how often do you see people actually add minor things like eyes and earpink to the list, even though sometimes they desperately need to be tweaked? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  05:00, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Leopardstar
Would she get an alternate leader charart? Though it was never confirmed, it is possible that she was shown as a golden tabby on the cover of Cats of the Clans. Though some have argued that it might have been Crookedstar or Brokenstar or something.. What do you think? (sorry if this has been discussed before)

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  14:46, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

And she was also seen again as a golden tabby on page 62.

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  14:47, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure. She's already a golden tabby, it's just she's a SPOTTED golden tabby. We'd just be removing the spots (which she may actually have, since we never saw a full body picture), and I don't think that's major enough. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  16:16, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I saw that picture, and it doesn't look like there's actually stripes on her. I can sorta see the spots, but not the tabby markings. 16:24, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

There's tabby markings on her face in that picture. 16:47, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

But only on her face. I don't see any along her back. Only small patches of darker fur. 16:48, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I also noticed that.. But would she still get an alt.?

Gh ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  00:25, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I doubt it. She's already a golden spotted tabby, and that picture Cloudskye put up is already of a golden spotted tabby... <span style="">03:48 Mon Oct 31

As already said, if she's already a golden taby, why bother making an alternate the same as the original? 05:12, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Exactly, Owl. There's no need to make unnecessary alts. It just makes the images take longer for the changes to show... 05:15, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the trouble, guess I wasn't thinking straight so late at night. xD  Gh  ou  lp  eb  bl  e! '''Trick? Or Treat?'''  12:41, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

It's okay Misty, everyone makes mistakes, and this is what the talk page is about, if you have a question or concern, just ask and point it out! 03:01, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Wait. I don't get it. The picture that Cloudy showed above is NOT a golden tabby. It is a spotted golden she-cat. Surely we can make an alt for that? 20:38, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

The picture above was definitely a tabby. The stripes on her back probably aren't visible because of the lighting, but she has the M on her forehead. 01:54, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

If you look closely Icestorm, that's actually quite clearly a golden spotted tabby, which is exactly what her real description is. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  04:58, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Questions
I have a few questions regarding charart alts. First, would Minnowpaw get an alt. for being described with dappled fur? Would Pouncepaw get an alt for being described with a short tabby tail? Would Redstar get an alt. for being bracken-colored? Would Leopardfoot get an alt. for being described as mottled? Would Sweetpaw get an alt. for being described as a mottled tabby?

I realize that we may have had discussions about some of these questions, but I wasn't paying attention, so would someone kindly explain to me why they would or would not get an alt.? Thanks a lot! 23:44, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I guess some of these would get alts and some not. 23:51, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I know that. I want to know which ones get alts and which ones don't. 23:57, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Minnowtail I'm not sure about, probably, but then again you only need to add darker spots persay. Pouncepaw probably would be if the lineart is an alteration. Redstar, probably would get an alt because bracken-colored is different than ginger (i.e. Mosspelt). Leoparfoot and Sweetpaw are the same as Minnowpaw. That's what I've gotten out of the few...discussions/questions I've seen. :P 02:20, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

I was wondering if Leopardfoot did, cause I wanna do hers :P 14:24, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Would Pouncepaw then be a tweak or a normal charart? I think Leopardfoot should get one since solid black and mottled are different. 23:54, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe Pouncepaw might just have that description be added to his overall description, so his charart should be tweaked. Redstar I think should get one, since if we go by Mosspelt's alternate the color is much different than Redstar's charart. About Sweetpaw and Leopardfoot, they would probably get alts. I remember there was once a Sweetpaw alternate up but it was declined because we didn't have the default brown rule yet, so that's what her alt. would be. 02:06, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Alternates
Should there be a list of what alt we do and not? Or maybe on the cats needing art page? Users make alts and many get declined because they are not alts. The disscussion page gets a lot of topics about which alts we can do and not. It would be helpful if we solved this problem. If so, leads would be in charge of these things, like what are alts, and what aren't. Ideas? 23:56, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

There is a list of chararts that I've assumed had listed alts. If a user finds an alt, they can update that list and the leads could check it every now and then and take off the alts they think are not needed. 00:26, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Don't only leads take a charart off the list? I thought the characters needing art page's rules were the same as the characters needing tweaking page, where you leave it for a bit, give the leads a chance to look and decide if it's necessary to stay on the list or not. Correct me if I'm wrong, just wondering. 03:04, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

The charart list is free game. Images can be taken off or put on by anyone. 03:07, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Approved files page
I think that the approved files page is getting a tad bit long...I should know since I have a very great Internet connection, a fast computer, yet it crashes my Internet every time I try to add a new file onto it. Many of the images are strangely sized because of the vast number of images on it. I think we should have several different pages with a set number of how many images should be on it, or delete it and whenever an image is approved, put the category "Approved files" or "Approved images" to it, that way the images will be sized correctly, and it's easier to browse through them for ones in need of tweaking. Whaddya guys think? 05:36, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

I personally like the "Approved Images" category thing, since we already kind of do that anyway. A number of different pages would be pointless if we could just have a category that lists those images anyway. 11:15, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, please. Can we just get rid of that page and/or stop using it and switch to something else? It doesn't crash on mine, but it dose freeze my laptop. XD 15:45, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

I always forget to edit that page. Im happy to stop using it. 01:52, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

If you'd like, I could start adding images to that category for you guys (I'm not doing it charart by charart on that page) and then whatever you guys think I've missed you can add yourselves. Also we'll have to make it a rule that you cannot add "Approved Files" category to your image until it has finished CBA. It seems to be a general consensus, though do I need to make a vote page for it? Or would it be ok to just do it now? =p 03:16, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

That would take too long. Just do it now. It's not like it affects everyone - this is something for the leads. 03:20, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Kay :)  03:34, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Two Questions
First of all, what is the new queen rule, unfortunatly I missed that :P

Right now I forget the second one Dx I'll tell you when I remember! 15:52, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Remembered! Does Spiderstar get a rogue image? SkyClan (technically) was no more at there last meeting when the broke apart. He didn't become a kittypet, so doesn't he have to be either rogue or loner? 15:57, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

1) The new rule is that any cat that has given birth to kits gets a queen image, regardless of whether they are seen pregnant/nursing or not. 2) That's an interesting point. I think he might get a loner charart because he wasn't part of SkyClan anymore, but I don't think he would have tried to harm others so a loner charart makes sense. 19:03, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Speckle, I really appreciate that! 23:00, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

I'll just make a loner one, but before I put it up, I'll have one of the leads confirm this. 00:01, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Ya go for it. 01:51, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! 10:21, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Grading system
I have another question as well (haha so many questions as of late!). How do we determine if a character with their pixils gets a gold or silver grade? Most of them have silver but what qualifies the character's images for a gold grade? Some that have the gold grade on them (no offense) are older images of lesser quality compared to some silver graded ones. 20:37, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

That's actually a really good question. Let's compare gold on a character grade to gold to charart grades. Character pages need...detailed history, lots of quotes, long history...ect. How can we make that similar to charart? Maybe = all of the ranks (not including appretnices in the period we have to wait for the new blanks) are detailed, (if you want me to bring speficic features I will), match the description almost perfectly, good shading that looks realistic, realistic tabby stripes, ect. Unique could be one? xD I don't know, I was always thinking we should hvae a different page that lists the charart grades and explains fully. 20:45, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

That was my idea, but the rules never explained it fully. Like, let's use the example of Mapleshade before Crookedstar's Promise came out but for some reason we knew she was going to need all those pictures. For the current picture she has, which looks good, it'd get a silver, but not a gold until all of them were done, or if there's bronze (which if there is I've never seen it used) then that would be used until she got another pixil approved. 20:49, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Gold grade is for any that have been on the main page, and silver is for everything approved. 01:50, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I have seen bronze before. It's when, say, a new book comes out with new characters. Say this new character was a warrior in the beginning, then left to become a loner halfway through the book. When one of the images is completed, but not the other, and put on the page, it gets a bronze grade. Make sense? 02:04, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

So, gold goes with featured article then? *thinks* I didn't know charart played into the decision of having a character featured on the front page (Ivypool was on the front page when I was still making her warrior image). And Oblivion, yeah, kinda, so then, do we strip them of their silver grade until the extra pixil has been made? 03:18, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Just to clear up, Ivypool's charart did not effect the decision made about PC's FA: June 2011. 03:35, November 2, 2011 (UTC

The gold charart rank only goes to an article if they were made an FA without being part of a content drive. The front page has the listed ranks, and for Gold, it says "These articles have been voted into silver status, AND been a Feature Article for reasons OTHER than Content Drive." 14:22, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Ivystripe, I personally think we should give every article that the apprentice image has recently been taken off bronze grade. They don't have all the images that are needed for silver, so why give them silver? 18:53, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with what Oblivion said. 21:16, November 2, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Apprentice Blanks
Wiat a second. Where does it go up for approval and who is doing it and when? Is it gonna be like the hunter blanks? 01:43, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

They will probably go up for approval on the For Approval page, but I'm not certain, and Iceheart's going to be doing them. 02:11, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it's going on the approval page, as all the blanks have in the past. 02:14, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Defining different styles of tabbies
I'd like to ask, how can you identify the different types of tabbies (wavy, thin, y tabby, traditional etc) that match with each charart? For example, Speckletail is a traditional tabby. How do we know she is one, and she's not a marbled tabby? Unless confirmed in a book, how do we know? 07:38, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

We don't. It's never confirmed in the books what kind of tabby any cat it, just that they ARE a tabby. It's the artist's choice what they want to make them. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  08:52, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

There's only ONE cat in the whole entired series that a cat has had a defined stripe pattern. I forget who it was but it said "a mackeral striped tail" 15:09, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

That would be Hawkfrost, who, by the way, isn't depicted in his charart with a mackeral striped tail. Mackeral striped tails/cats look like this. He does not. Should he be added to the tweak list? 16:24, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Add him to the tweak list. If it's part of his description, then it needs to be placed on his charart. 19:01, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Cinderheart Apprentice
I was looking down the Cinderheart page and noticed their was no apprentice art for her. Excuse if I missed someone working on it because I fail like that. May I create an apprentice char for Cinderheart? --<span style="color: orange; font-family: Lucinda; background: blue; border:2px solid; -moz-border-raiuds: 1em; color: yellow"> Killing Trolls, One Wiki at a time 11:11, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry but you must wait until the apprentices blanks are redone.. It wil be soon Leaf-storm,13:08,November 2,2011 (UTC)

We removed the apprentice image because they weren't consistent with the others on her page. She has one, but it's just not on her page. 14:19, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Stripes
I was wondering how you make strimpes on GIMP. I'm such a fail. xD 20:40, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I draw the stripes on a new layer with the pencil, although you could burn them on. <font face="Maiandra GD" siz="2" color="blue" >Sky- Gathering the army of <font face="Maiandra GD" size="2" color="cyan"> Trolls 20:51, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I do the stripes on a new layer also, with the pencil or paintbrush tool. Then I guassian blur the layer, but you can simply just blur it with the blur tool. 21:55, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I know how to do them, I just don't know how to draw them, like everyone's stripes look so perfect, I just can't draw them :/ 23:35, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Check out the apprentice tutorial and go to the tabby section, it might help you. ;) 23:51, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

New Rule Vote In Process
All those wishing to vote on a new rule that has been proposed and put to a vote may go here to cast their opinion for or against said rule. 21:55, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I formally apologize for the sloppiness of that sentence... so redundant. 22:00, November 2, 2011 (UTC)