Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Alternate Colors
Okay, so this may be already discussed before...but of course, I wouldn't know...

Anyway, if a character was officialy descripted as "Gray tabby" (No shades included) and it was then mistakenly described as dark gray/light gray (No tabby stripes included) could it get an alt?

Also, what is the major differences with Tawny/Bracken/Red-brown shades?

Thanks and I hope I don't sound too stupid--. 04:15, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, we discussed this before. No, simply specifying from a general color doesn't constitute that an alternate be made. We don't make an alt every time Firestar isn't called a flame-colored tom, so there's no reason to do it with every little thing. 04:23, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

wouldnt you consider "Dark gray tabby" and "Solid light gray" a large difference? . 04:29, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but those are opposite ends of the spectrum. However, if you're going from just gray to dark gray or light gray, then it's just specifying what type of gray they are, and in that case the main charart should be tweaked. 04:31, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I also mean, a tabby mistakenly described as solid, would it get an alt with no stripes disregaurding colors? . 04:33, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I wouldnt think the authors would say their full descriptions everytime they refer to a cat. They just shorten it to make it easier for themselves. I wouldnt be surprised if half the tabbies were "mistakenly" described as without teh stripes - 04:35, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Of course, but mainly I am suggesting matters when it is definatly desbrided as solid oppose to tabby. . 04:37, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yea, but we figured it wasnt too much of a difference without the stripes, wether described as dark or light. - 04:42, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Mousefur got an alt for being described as a brown tabby, when she's usually not (I would know, 'cause I made it). Isn't this the same thing, just reversed? 04:46, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

No, Cloudy, not even close. Let's use Brambleclaw as an example. He's a brown cat with darker brown stripes. If he was described as "brown", it would include his pelt colour as well as his stripes. As apposed to Mousefur, who is a solid brown. If she was described with stripes, that's an error because she never had them in the first place. As for the whole "dark gray stripes, dark gray tom/she-cat", they're the exact same thing. Unless the Erins said "solid gray" (which they never do, by the way), it wouldn't get an alternate. 18:46, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, matter settled, I think. Oblivion, you explained that quite well. 18:51, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I think you guys are missing something though, Feather's talking about if they're described as a different SHADE, as well as without tabby stripes. Like, take oblivion's example, except, Brambleclaw's mentioned as LIGHT brown instead of just brown. Would he get an alternate for that? I would think he would. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  19:24, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Exacily. Thanks, Paleh-- for pointing that out. :3 . 00:50, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

I'd say if they were mentioned as a different shade than their official color/color said in the allegiances, then it wouldn't make a difference. Although if they were constantly described as a dark gray and then mistakenly later described as a light gray, then I think they should get an alternate for that. And I've got a question thats related to this discussion, what if they were described as a dakr gray, and then described as a light gray, and it kept on going back and forth, you wouldn't get anywhere, and if the official shade was never revealed, what would you do? 05:47, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

IYesh. And as for at the end, if they never revealed a shade, I think it would just be plain instead of Light/Dark. Am I right? . 21:45, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that makes sence. 05:27, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Actually if they were flipping back and forth between dark and light, I'd say use the one that was mentioned first and make an alt for the second one. 00:22 Fri Nov 4

On Alts
I think we need to be a bit clearer on what constitutes an alt and what doesn't. That's just me, however.

On a similar note, I'm wondering how it is that we decide what is a mistake in descriptions and what isn't. My confusion came from comparing Willowshine's description against Redwillow's. For Redwillow we did not take into account the likelyhood that being described with a tawny head, most likely meaning he was entirely tawny, was a mistake. For Willowshine, it's entirely possible that she is either a dark or light gray tabby, but we have plain alts for both dark and light gray.

I know this may seem silly, I just want some clarification as to how this wiki goes about deciding what's a mistake and what isn't. 23:34, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I think I see what you mean, about Redwillow. You're right, it wouldn't seem like he'd have a tawny head out of nowhere. He'd probably get an alt for being plain tawny. 00:54, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

AH, thank you, Shellheart. I was thinking the same thing not too long ago. I always thought that Redwillow should've had a tawny alt, and that Willowshine should've had a specific shade from the beginning. Maybe take into account how many times she's been called light vs dark and use the one that's been used the most. Then she can have an alt for the opposite shade. 01:24 Sun Oct 30

That sounds like the most logical thing, Wildheart. I've always felt that cats should have descriptions based on what they are called most. I could go into the Dovewing's eyes debate here, but I choose not to. 01:39, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Dovewing... Yeah, let's not start that. xD But yeah, I agree with you. I've always found the Willowshine thing confusing myself... 01:41, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

So what is to be done about this? 03:19, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Well, Iceheart and the others haven't commented yet, and I'd like to hear their opinions on it as well before anything's enforced. 03:22, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Oops I forgot to add my two cents. This bugged me as well, because, say, we have a cat described as brown, but at one point he is referred as flecked. To me, it would seem to be a part of the normal description but they just forgot it, but too, we don't know what their intentions were with the cat in mind (especially minor characters)  03:26, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I say that in the end, we should always add into descriptions what would be most genetically possible. This is the decision we made with ginger stripes, is it not? So a ginger tom with a tawny head? Most likely not possible. Just because the Erins don't pay attention to genetics doesn't mean we can't. And when it comes to specific shades of a basic color like with Willowshine, we should go with whichever one came first and make an alt for the other one. So Willowshine would be a dark gray tabby, not just gray. 06:37, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Ooh, I like that. Let's go with what Shellheart said. XD 06:58 Mon Oct 31

Although, if a character was described first as a dark gray tabby (just an example), and then for the rest of the books, was described as a light gray tabby, we would probably go with the light gray tabby description. I don't know how to put that into a guideline, though... 07:00 Mon Oct 31

I'd like to get the opinion of one more lead and either Iceheart or Scareltwind before anything is done. 12:45, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

IM a science nerd so i love the idea of sticking to the genetic rules. I think this could work. 01:57, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I mean only when it comes to alts that can be questioned. We can't stick 100% to genetic laws, as the Erins do not and as there are genetic anomalies in the word. I have, in fact, seen a white cat with black paws and ears. 02:13, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Questions
I have a few questions regarding charart alts. First, would Minnowpaw get an alt. for being described with dappled fur? Would Pouncepaw get an alt for being described with a short tabby tail? Would Redstar get an alt. for being bracken-colored? Would Leopardfoot get an alt. for being described as mottled? Would Sweetpaw get an alt. for being described as a mottled tabby?

I realize that we may have had discussions about some of these questions, but I wasn't paying attention, so would someone kindly explain to me why they would or would not get an alt.? Thanks a lot! 23:44, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I guess some of these would get alts and some not. 23:51, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I know that. I want to know which ones get alts and which ones don't. 23:57, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Minnowtail I'm not sure about, probably, but then again you only need to add darker spots persay. Pouncepaw probably would be if the lineart is an alteration. Redstar, probably would get an alt because bracken-colored is different than ginger (i.e. Mosspelt). Leoparfoot and Sweetpaw are the same as Minnowpaw. That's what I've gotten out of the few...discussions/questions I've seen. :P 02:20, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

I was wondering if Leopardfoot did, cause I wanna do hers :P 14:24, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Would Pouncepaw then be a tweak or a normal charart? I think Leopardfoot should get one since solid black and mottled are different. 23:54, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe Pouncepaw might just have that description be added to his overall description, so his charart should be tweaked. Redstar I think should get one, since if we go by Mosspelt's alternate the color is much different than Redstar's charart. About Sweetpaw and Leopardfoot, they would probably get alts. I remember there was once a Sweetpaw alternate up but it was declined because we didn't have the default brown rule yet, so that's what her alt. would be. 02:06, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Alternates
Should there be a list of what alt we do and not? Or maybe on the cats needing art page? Users make alts and many get declined because they are not alts. The disscussion page gets a lot of topics about which alts we can do and not. It would be helpful if we solved this problem. If so, leads would be in charge of these things, like what are alts, and what aren't. Ideas? 23:56, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

There is a list of chararts that I've assumed had listed alts. If a user finds an alt, they can update that list and the leads could check it every now and then and take off the alts they think are not needed. 00:26, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Don't only leads take a charart off the list? I thought the characters needing art page's rules were the same as the characters needing tweaking page, where you leave it for a bit, give the leads a chance to look and decide if it's necessary to stay on the list or not. Correct me if I'm wrong, just wondering. 03:04, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

The charart list is free game. Images can be taken off or put on by anyone. 03:07, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Grading system
I have another question as well (haha so many questions as of late!). How do we determine if a character with their pixils gets a gold or silver grade? Most of them have silver but what qualifies the character's images for a gold grade? Some that have the gold grade on them (no offense) are older images of lesser quality compared to some silver graded ones. 20:37, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

That's actually a really good question. Let's compare gold on a character grade to gold to charart grades. Character pages need...detailed history, lots of quotes, long history...ect. How can we make that similar to charart? Maybe = all of the ranks (not including appretnices in the period we have to wait for the new blanks) are detailed, (if you want me to bring speficic features I will), match the description almost perfectly, good shading that looks realistic, realistic tabby stripes, ect. Unique could be one? xD I don't know, I was always thinking we should hvae a different page that lists the charart grades and explains fully. 20:45, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

That was my idea, but the rules never explained it fully. Like, let's use the example of Mapleshade before Crookedstar's Promise came out but for some reason we knew she was going to need all those pictures. For the current picture she has, which looks good, it'd get a silver, but not a gold until all of them were done, or if there's bronze (which if there is I've never seen it used) then that would be used until she got another pixil approved. 20:49, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Gold grade is for any that have been on the main page, and silver is for everything approved. 01:50, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I have seen bronze before. It's when, say, a new book comes out with new characters. Say this new character was a warrior in the beginning, then left to become a loner halfway through the book. When one of the images is completed, but not the other, and put on the page, it gets a bronze grade. Make sense? 02:04, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

So, gold goes with featured article then? *thinks* I didn't know charart played into the decision of having a character featured on the front page (Ivypool was on the front page when I was still making her warrior image). And Oblivion, yeah, kinda, so then, do we strip them of their silver grade until the extra pixil has been made? 03:18, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Just to clear up, Ivypool's charart did not effect the decision made about PC's FA: June 2011. 03:35, November 2, 2011 (UTC

The gold charart rank only goes to an article if they were made an FA without being part of a content drive. The front page has the listed ranks, and for Gold, it says "These articles have been voted into silver status, AND been a Feature Article for reasons OTHER than Content Drive." 14:22, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Ivystripe, I personally think we should give every article that the apprentice image has recently been taken off bronze grade. They don't have all the images that are needed for silver, so why give them silver? 18:53, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with what Oblivion said. 21:16, November 2, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

So are we doing this? If so, I'd be happy to give any article that needs it a bronze grade. 21:05, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

New Rule Vote In Process
All those wishing to vote on a new rule that has been proposed and put to a vote may go here to cast their opinion for or against said rule. 21:55, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I formally apologize for the sloppiness of that sentence... so redundant. 22:00, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Tweaking Tutorial
Ok, so I was looking over the apprentice tutorial, and noticed that we don't have tutorial on one ANYWHERE, even in the personal user tutorials; Tweaking. I'd love it if we could add a section on tweaking to the apprentice tutorial (though it'd actually be for warriors, not apprentices). There are a lot of tricks and tips and stuff to fix countless things in a charart without redoing it, and not everyone, especially new warriors, know how to do those things. Things like changing the color of something, or getting rid of blurred lineart, or fixing shading without redoing a charart, etc. etc. So what do you guys think? Can we add one? I'd personally love to be able to make a tut on getting rid of blurred lineart, but I could help out with any of it. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  02:58, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I think that'd be fine, and I have a bunch of helpful hints. My changing pelt lengths could be in it since not many regular chararts would need that done to it but could be helpful for the RiverClan and WindClan cats in need of a pelt length change  03:05, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that'd be great! And I'm sure lots of other people have tips and tricks they've figured out too. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  03:17, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Waste
If we notice that an approved charart has waste around it, should we leave a message on this page so that a lead can fix it? 03:11, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I think you just add it to the tweaking list. 09:03, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Something Fun!
I was talking with a few other users in the chat room and had an idea that seemed to get some positive feedback. So, I thought I'd propose it here.

How about a friendly charart contest? Everyone could customize the best/most creative charart they can think of and upload it (on their personal image file, of course) to see who can make the best. I can't think of anything that could be used as a prize except recognition of excellence/awesomeness from the project.

Does anyone else think this would be a good idea? It could be fun. If anyone can think of a way to improve the contest, maybe by proposing a theme we all have to stick to, that'd be great. 03:51, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

That'd be super fun! Even though I'd epically fail! Lovely idea. I'm in. 04:10, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm definitely in, and I have some ideas. Maybe we could have two rounds: one for apprentices and one for warriors and leads, because I don't think it would be fair to have a new apprentice competing against the leads (who are all amazing at chararts). Also, for a theme we could use Christmas. I know it's still a month away, but there's already tons of adverts in shops and there's lots of room for the imagination to go wild, so I think it would be good. 09:02, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I think this would be awesome! I do agree with Specklestream, there should be two rounds. Leopard claw  Look up  to the past…  09:12, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, I love this idea!!! Leaf-storm,11:40,November 5,2011 (UTC)

Yes! 11:50, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

But what would we do about the inactive apprentices? Just remove them? 12:01, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

We could have everybody who wants to do it sign up. Then we would know the numbers and we wouldn't have to worry about inactive apprentices. 12:25, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm in for sure! 12:49, November 5, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Interesting idea, and it wouldn't be taking up space, since the users participating would be uploading over their personal image file. ;) Christmas sounds like a good idea too. Hmm.... Hopefully this doesn't cause clutter... 13:33, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Great idea! I like the idea about the two rounds thing. ;) M is    t y pe bb le   ♪Goo d day♪ just go with |undefined the flow   14:22, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not good at Christmas stuff. :'( But oh well. If you guys wanna do it, I'm in for it. And yeah, two rounds is good. 14:25, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I think we'd be better off with a more PC theme that everyone could get in on.... hmm, how about just seasons? We could have a two-tiered contest with four categories at first (Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter) and we pick the best from each category to go on to the final round in which they will have to make another charart to fit a new category? I agree with the separation of apprentices from warriors and leads, so we'll be having two separate contests with two winners in the end. I won't be entering, as I intend to be one of the judges. I'm so glad everyone likes this idea! As soon as we get the go ahead from either Scarletwind or Iceheart, the contest will be on, so don't start uploading chararts on your personal images for the contest in the meantime. Until then, though, if you want to enter just leave me a message on my talk page that includes your rank in the project. 14:41, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Birchfall Apprentice
I don't know if I am allowed to but Birchfall's apprentice image looks different from the other images. I already took it off of his page but feel free to revert this edit if you disagree with me...Star shine ☾The Full Moon Awaits☽ 14:30, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

No, you're fine. Thanks! 14:42, November 5, 2011 (UTC)