Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

On Alts
I think we need to be a bit clearer on what constitutes an alt and what doesn't. That's just me, however.

On a similar note, I'm wondering how it is that we decide what is a mistake in descriptions and what isn't. My confusion came from comparing Willowshine's description against Redwillow's. For Redwillow we did not take into account the likelyhood that being described with a tawny head, most likely meaning he was entirely tawny, was a mistake. For Willowshine, it's entirely possible that she is either a dark or light gray tabby, but we have plain alts for both dark and light gray.

I know this may seem silly, I just want some clarification as to how this wiki goes about deciding what's a mistake and what isn't. 23:34, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I think I see what you mean, about Redwillow. You're right, it wouldn't seem like he'd have a tawny head out of nowhere. He'd probably get an alt for being plain tawny. 00:54, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

AH, thank you, Shellheart. I was thinking the same thing not too long ago. I always thought that Redwillow should've had a tawny alt, and that Willowshine should've had a specific shade from the beginning. Maybe take into account how many times she's been called light vs dark and use the one that's been used the most. Then she can have an alt for the opposite shade. 01:24 Sun Oct 30

That sounds like the most logical thing, Wildheart. I've always felt that cats should have descriptions based on what they are called most. I could go into the Dovewing's eyes debate here, but I choose not to. 01:39, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Dovewing... Yeah, let's not start that. xD But yeah, I agree with you. I've always found the Willowshine thing confusing myself... 01:41, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

So what is to be done about this? 03:19, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Well, Iceheart and the others haven't commented yet, and I'd like to hear their opinions on it as well before anything's enforced. 03:22, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Oops I forgot to add my two cents. This bugged me as well, because, say, we have a cat described as brown, but at one point he is referred as flecked. To me, it would seem to be a part of the normal description but they just forgot it, but too, we don't know what their intentions were with the cat in mind (especially minor characters)  03:26, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I say that in the end, we should always add into descriptions what would be most genetically possible. This is the decision we made with ginger stripes, is it not? So a ginger tom with a tawny head? Most likely not possible. Just because the Erins don't pay attention to genetics doesn't mean we can't. And when it comes to specific shades of a basic color like with Willowshine, we should go with whichever one came first and make an alt for the other one. So Willowshine would be a dark gray tabby, not just gray. 06:37, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Ooh, I like that. Let's go with what Shellheart said. XD 06:58 Mon Oct 31

Although, if a character was described first as a dark gray tabby (just an example), and then for the rest of the books, was described as a light gray tabby, we would probably go with the light gray tabby description. I don't know how to put that into a guideline, though... 07:00 Mon Oct 31

I'd like to get the opinion of one more lead and either Iceheart or Scareltwind before anything is done. 12:45, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

IM a science nerd so i love the idea of sticking to the genetic rules. I think this could work. 01:57, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I mean only when it comes to alts that can be questioned. We can't stick 100% to genetic laws, as the Erins do not and as there are genetic anomalies in the word. I have, in fact, seen a white cat with black paws and ears. 02:13, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Kay, so what's the final decision before this thing gets archived? 15:48, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Questions
I have a few questions regarding charart alts. First, would Minnowpaw get an alt. for being described with dappled fur? Would Pouncepaw get an alt for being described with a short tabby tail? Would Redstar get an alt. for being bracken-colored? Would Leopardfoot get an alt. for being described as mottled? Would Sweetpaw get an alt. for being described as a mottled tabby?

I realize that we may have had discussions about some of these questions, but I wasn't paying attention, so would someone kindly explain to me why they would or would not get an alt.? Thanks a lot! 23:44, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I guess some of these would get alts and some not. 23:51, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I know that. I want to know which ones get alts and which ones don't. 23:57, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Minnowtail I'm not sure about, probably, but then again you only need to add darker spots persay. Pouncepaw probably would be if the lineart is an alteration. Redstar, probably would get an alt because bracken-colored is different than ginger (i.e. Mosspelt). Leoparfoot and Sweetpaw are the same as Minnowpaw. That's what I've gotten out of the few...discussions/questions I've seen. :P 02:20, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

I was wondering if Leopardfoot did, cause I wanna do hers :P 14:24, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Would Pouncepaw then be a tweak or a normal charart? I think Leopardfoot should get one since solid black and mottled are different. 23:54, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe Pouncepaw might just have that description be added to his overall description, so his charart should be tweaked. Redstar I think should get one, since if we go by Mosspelt's alternate the color is much different than Redstar's charart. About Sweetpaw and Leopardfoot, they would probably get alts. I remember there was once a Sweetpaw alternate up but it was declined because we didn't have the default brown rule yet, so that's what her alt. would be. 02:06, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Since Pouncepaw was an apprentice, and his tail was still growing, he probably wouldn't get an alt for a short tabby tail as he's already tabby. 05:46 Thu Nov 10

Grading system
I have another question as well (haha so many questions as of late!). How do we determine if a character with their pixils gets a gold or silver grade? Most of them have silver but what qualifies the character's images for a gold grade? Some that have the gold grade on them (no offense) are older images of lesser quality compared to some silver graded ones. 20:37, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

That's actually a really good question. Let's compare gold on a character grade to gold to charart grades. Character pages need...detailed history, lots of quotes, long history...ect. How can we make that similar to charart? Maybe = all of the ranks (not including appretnices in the period we have to wait for the new blanks) are detailed, (if you want me to bring speficic features I will), match the description almost perfectly, good shading that looks realistic, realistic tabby stripes, ect. Unique could be one? xD I don't know, I was always thinking we should hvae a different page that lists the charart grades and explains fully. 20:45, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

That was my idea, but the rules never explained it fully. Like, let's use the example of Mapleshade before Crookedstar's Promise came out but for some reason we knew she was going to need all those pictures. For the current picture she has, which looks good, it'd get a silver, but not a gold until all of them were done, or if there's bronze (which if there is I've never seen it used) then that would be used until she got another pixil approved. 20:49, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Gold grade is for any that have been on the main page, and silver is for everything approved. 01:50, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I have seen bronze before. It's when, say, a new book comes out with new characters. Say this new character was a warrior in the beginning, then left to become a loner halfway through the book. When one of the images is completed, but not the other, and put on the page, it gets a bronze grade. Make sense? 02:04, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

So, gold goes with featured article then? *thinks* I didn't know charart played into the decision of having a character featured on the front page (Ivypool was on the front page when I was still making her warrior image). And Oblivion, yeah, kinda, so then, do we strip them of their silver grade until the extra pixil has been made? 03:18, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Just to clear up, Ivypool's charart did not effect the decision made about PC's FA: June 2011. 03:35, November 2, 2011 (UTC

The gold charart rank only goes to an article if they were made an FA without being part of a content drive. The front page has the listed ranks, and for Gold, it says "These articles have been voted into silver status, AND been a Feature Article for reasons OTHER than Content Drive." 14:22, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Ivystripe, I personally think we should give every article that the apprentice image has recently been taken off bronze grade. They don't have all the images that are needed for silver, so why give them silver? 18:53, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with what Oblivion said. 21:16, November 2, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

So are we doing this? If so, I'd be happy to give any article that needs it a bronze grade. 21:05, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

New Rule Vote In Process
All those wishing to vote on a new rule that has been proposed and put to a vote may go here to cast their opinion for or against said rule. 21:55, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I formally apologize for the sloppiness of that sentence... so redundant. 22:00, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Tweaking Tutorial
Ok, so I was looking over the apprentice tutorial, and noticed that we don't have tutorial on one ANYWHERE, even in the personal user tutorials; Tweaking. I'd love it if we could add a section on tweaking to the apprentice tutorial (though it'd actually be for warriors, not apprentices). There are a lot of tricks and tips and stuff to fix countless things in a charart without redoing it, and not everyone, especially new warriors, know how to do those things. Things like changing the color of something, or getting rid of blurred lineart, or fixing shading without redoing a charart, etc. etc. So what do you guys think? Can we add one? I'd personally love to be able to make a tut on getting rid of blurred lineart, but I could help out with any of it. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  02:58, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I think that'd be fine, and I have a bunch of helpful hints. My changing pelt lengths could be in it since not many regular chararts would need that done to it but could be helpful for the RiverClan and WindClan cats in need of a pelt length change 03:05, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that'd be great! And I'm sure lots of other people have tips and tricks they've figured out too. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  03:17, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah definitely, guys. Go add it! 19:30 Sat Nov 5

Waste
If we notice that an approved charart has waste around it, should we leave a message on this page so that a lead can fix it? 03:11, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I think you just add it to the tweaking list. 09:03, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I think it shouldn't be added, it should just be fixed without any approval process, like changing eye colours. 17:36, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Nah it'd probably be simpler to just add it to the tweaking list so people aren't tempted to change something else about the charart whilst they are removing the waste. I dunno. What do the other leads think? 19:32 Sat Nov 5

I changed my mind. Moonleaf, you're right. 23:42 Sat Nov 5

What if we made like, a minor tweak section on the tweak nomination page? For images than need to be tweaked, but the things are so minor it doesn't really need to be put up for approval, like waste, eye problems miscolored lineart, nose color, etc. Should everyone in the project be allowed to get rid of waste like that, or only warriors and up? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  04:46, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds too complicated to me Paleclaw :P We should just let people get rid of the waste themselves. I'm confident that no one will change anything else, and if they do, it can just be reverted. 03:04, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Kay. ^^ What about micolored lineart? All people have to do is paste a new blank over. Should everyone be able to tweak those? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  00:20, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Miscoloured lineart, eyes, noses and any waste should all be allowed to be removed without the whole tweaking process. 21:49, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Something Fun!
I was talking with a few other users in the chat room and had an idea that seemed to get some positive feedback. So, I thought I'd propose it here.

How about a friendly charart contest? Everyone could customize the best/most creative charart they can think of and upload it (on their personal image file, of course) to see who can make the best. I can't think of anything that could be used as a prize except recognition of excellence/awesomeness from the project.

Does anyone else think this would be a good idea? It could be fun. If anyone can think of a way to improve the contest, maybe by proposing a theme we all have to stick to, that'd be great. 03:51, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

That'd be super fun! Even though I'd epically fail! Lovely idea. I'm in. 04:10, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm definitely in, and I have some ideas. Maybe we could have two rounds: one for apprentices and one for warriors and leads, because I don't think it would be fair to have a new apprentice competing against the leads (who are all amazing at chararts). Also, for a theme we could use Christmas. I know it's still a month away, but there's already tons of adverts in shops and there's lots of room for the imagination to go wild, so I think it would be good. 09:02, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I think this would be awesome! I do agree with Specklestream, there should be two rounds. Leopard claw  Look up  to the past…  09:12, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, I love this idea!!! Leaf-storm,11:40,November 5,2011 (UTC)

Yes! 11:50, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

But what would we do about the inactive apprentices? Just remove them? 12:01, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

We could have everybody who wants to do it sign up. Then we would know the numbers and we wouldn't have to worry about inactive apprentices. 12:25, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm in for sure! 12:49, November 5, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Interesting idea, and it wouldn't be taking up space, since the users participating would be uploading over their personal image file. ;) Christmas sounds like a good idea too. Hmm.... Hopefully this doesn't cause clutter... 13:33, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Great idea! I like the idea about the two rounds thing. ;) M is    t y pe bb le   ♪Goo d day♪ just go with |undefined the flow   14:22, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not good at Christmas stuff. :'( But oh well. If you guys wanna do it, I'm in for it. And yeah, two rounds is good. 14:25, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I think we'd be better off with a more PC theme that everyone could get in on.... hmm, how about just seasons? We could have a two-tiered contest with four categories at first (Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter) and we pick the best from each category to go on to the final round in which they will have to make another charart to fit a new category? I agree with the separation of apprentices from warriors and leads, so we'll be having two separate contests with two winners in the end. I won't be entering, as I intend to be one of the judges. I'm so glad everyone likes this idea! As soon as we get the go ahead from either Scarletwind or Iceheart, the contest will be on, so don't start uploading chararts on your personal images for the contest in the meantime. Until then, though, if you want to enter just leave me a message on my talk page that includes your rank in the project. 14:41, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

This is a great idea! And how about instead of doing it on here, why don't one of the leads create a subpage (under their name of course) where we can have the images displayed? If we do that, I'd be happy to host it :) 15:02, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

That's an awesome idea! Thanks, Oblivion. 15:05, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Yay, seasons! :) Tell us when the subpage is created. So where would a signup thing be? If we make a thing for the signup we should have sections for each season for people to sign up on. 16:07, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Love this idea. Warning you now, mine isn't gonna be very good! 16:24, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Just go sign up here! ^^ 16:26, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Great idea, Shellheart <3 This sounds like fun. (just a note to the leads - don't archive this discussion as I have it linked on the mainpage's news) 20:21 Sat Nov 5

Are we allowed to put things in the background on our image? Sky- VoldemortxMcGonagall  ftw! 00:18, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Yes. 00:31, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

I swear you're an idea stealer! I told Cloudy I thought a charat competition would be cool! DX Naw it's alright, you know I like to tease! I'm glad to see that a lot of people are entering. I already have a good idea, but can you put multiple cats in it? 05:07, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

When does the first round start? -- 13:39, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

I'm so in. Lemme know when it starts! ~Regifloat222 Riverstar, Leader of the Thunder Snipes! 17:23, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

'''The first round is on! Go here to make your submission!'''

Am I still allowed to sign up? I missed the conversation. 09:30, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Of course you're allowed to sign up. 20:13, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, yay! I love this idea. 04:49, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Okay Im seeing alot of people uploading on seprate files. Unless I misread it or somethin', your supposed to upload it over personal image, right? - 01:22, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Brightheart
Should we add that she has torn ears? In her Cats of the Clans image, it looks like both her ears have been shredded. 02:16, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

I think you should. I am looking at the picture, and 'dem ear's are shredded. 20:28, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Leafstar Alt.
In Cats of the Clans, Leafstar's picture is different as she's usually described. I reserved her, and decided to make her a golden-brown cat as she looked like that. But, on her page, in the Trivia section, it says she was described as a golden tabby, well, that's what Atelda said and put, but it was later changed by someone that she looked like ginger tabby with a white muzzle and chest. What do you guys think she looks like? I have no clue what to make her alt. look like. 02:38, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Well, look at it yourself here. She's the cat on top. She looks ginger to me. 03:10, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see where you guys are getting golden or ginger. She looks light brown to me. 03:18, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

You are looking at the cat on top, right? It's the same cat shown on the cover of SkyClan's Destiny. She looks ginger to me. 03:20, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Looks light brown to me too. XD ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  04:44, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

So light brown? 14:47, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

All right, fine. But in that case, it doesn't warrent an alt. 15:25, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Does that mean that I should take my reservation for her leader alt. 2 off the table? 22:00, November 6, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Yes please. 22:05, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Alright, it's off. 22:23, November 6, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Sorry :C I'm sure you can find one to do though! 22:25, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Meh, I don't really care. I suck at tabbies anyways.. xD 22:28, November 6, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Mountainheart - Join Request
Can I join please? Thank you :)

Of course! ^^ I'll add you in now. :) Don't forget to sign with 4 ~s. Take a look at the Basic Guidlines and the Apprentice Tutorials while you get settled in. :) Welcome to the project! ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  06:20, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Join?
Can i join?

Spottedpelt 03:44, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, Spottedpelt. I'll add you in. Just something to remember - sign with four tildes ( ~ ) to leave a link so we can find out who left the message. :3 Please check out our guidelines and apprentice tutorials before you start editing or creating chararts. If you don't understand anything, feel free to ask any one of our members (including me!) for help. Welcome to PCA! 22:01 Mon Nov 7

Thistleclaw's Blank
I've reserved Thistleclaw's Alernate Warrior image, as he's shown in The Rise of Scourge. I was wondering what blank I should use. He's not spiky. He's drawn as a slender cat, so, should I use that blank, or the blank used for his other warrior images. 19:53, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

If he's drawn as a slender cat, then I say use the normal warrior blank. After all, you should be as accurate as you can be, and using the other lineart wouldn't make any sense. 19:57, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Go with the normal blank if that's what he looks like. 20:16, November 7, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Though, Moonflight, I noticed you have three images reserved and no date for Thistleclaw. Either remove your regular reservation (which I doubt) or withdraw one of your tweaks and add a date for Thistleclaw, otherwise it'll be removed :c  16:20, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Question
Umm... am I removed from PCA? I don't see my name on either list. Lu c k y   <font color="#ffe0fb" style=>H <font color="#ffc4f7"  style=>e <font color="#ffa6f3"  style=>a <font color="#f78de9"  style=>r <font color="#f76de5"  style=>t  <font color="#ffd38c"  style=>o <font color="#ffc05c"  style=>f  <font color="#fa3939"  style=>a  <font color="#acffa6"  style=>l <font color="#77ff6e"  style=>i <font color="#56ff4a"  style=>o <font color="#11ff00"  style=>n 03:25, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

You were removed due to inactivity. If you want, you can rejoin, but all users have to stay active. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 03:26, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, can I rejoin? <font color="#adfffb" style=>L<font color="#4ffff3"  style=>u <font color="#00ffee"  style=>c <font color="#00ebdb"  style=>k <font color="#0bd4c6"  style=>y   <font color="#ffe0fb" style=>H <font color="#ffc4f7"  style=>e <font color="#ffa6f3"  style=>a <font color="#f78de9"  style=>r <font color="#f76de5"  style=>t  <font color="#ffd38c"  style=>o <font color="#ffc05c"  style=>f  <font color="#fa3939"  style=>a  <font color="#acffa6"  style=>l <font color="#77ff6e"  style=>i <font color="#56ff4a"  style=>o <font color="#11ff00"  style=>n 03:30, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Yes you may, as long as you are committed to being active again. Welcome back! 16:56, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Sharpclaw
Would Sharpclaw get an alt. for just being solid colored? 11:59, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Depends on the solid color. If it's ginger, then no because he still needs stripes and that wouldn't necessitate one. If it is another color, then yes. Hope I answered your question! 16:54, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

I think Snowy's talking about in the Manga. He was shown as a solid color. :P And it's actually inside it, not on the cover, so there's no way to tell for sure what color it is. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  07:25, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Firestar KP alt?
Firestar is on the cover Into the Wild looking like black with ginger patches, I dont think thats only forest shadows.. Leaf-storm,15:35,November 9,2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure what that is, but it also looks like he has a white muzzle. 15:45, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, too, sorry I forget it Leaf-storm,15:44,November 9,2011 (UTC)

We can't assume that that is Firestar on the cover. It could possibly jsut be random cat #568 used to illustrate the general temperment of cats in the wild or something.

Firepaw looks ginger to me, I hardly even see any shadows on him. 18:09, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

They're talking about the cat in the background, not the cat in the center panel. 18:29, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

In the gallery is writen that on the background cover are graypaw nad firepaw Leaf-storm,18:59,November 9,2011 (UTC)

Omg, i would love to do the alt. for this (i don't have a charart up right now). So, does he get an alt.? Rain face &lt;3 19:16, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry but I don't think Firestar would get an alt. I realize your saying that we can't just assume it's him but come on, we all know it is. He's the only main ginger cat there is and it can't just be sheer coincidence the kittypet collar's right in front of him. The black is just shading/shadow. I think that closes this up. 19:31, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Loudsplash, she's talking about the cats not in the central panel. Below Firepaw. And Leaf-storm, where on the gallery page does it say that it's Firepaw and Graypaw? I can't find it anywhere. Again, we can't proove that that is Firepaw/Rusty below the main panel. It doesn't match his description and the Erins have never stated anything like that. I think it may just be two random cats confronting each other. 20:10, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

In fact, if I had to guess who those two cats were, I'd say it's probably Spottedleaf meeting Clawface right before he kills her with Clawface colored wrong, but that's just me. 20:20, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

I've always thought that the cats below the central panel o the front of Into The Wild are Bluestar and Spottedleaf, though the bluish cat has stripes. I think it was revealed somewhere, I think in an Erin Hunter chat, that the cats on the cover are Bluestar and Spottedleaf, just that the cover artist forgot to make Spottedleaf's paws white. And Bluestar's eyes are coloured wrong.- Kittycat79 <sup style="font-family;Arial;colour:Navyl">aka Rowantail 22:43, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

It's never been proved who the cats on the cover are, so no. And I seem to remember it being said somewhere, that the cats behind Rusty are actually supposed to be Tigerclaw and Redtail, but the Erin's didn't specify the place, or the color of tabby Tigerclaw was. That can't be proven either though. :P ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  01:12, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

If it can't be proved, it can't be done. 05:57, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Chararts, Getting Too Good?!
I'm not exactly sure why i'm saying this but just hear me out. Well i'm beginning to feel like the images are getting too good. I mean theres all these new people and I feel we can't keep up with all the senior warriors and warriors now, I feel they're getting too good to keep up with... 16:18, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

We're good because we practice a ton, and most of us have been here for quite a while. Each artist has a different skill level, and you shouldn't compare yourself to anyone else. There's nothing wrong with chararts being "too good", because to be honest, if they looked bad, then PCA wouldn't be doing their job. >.>;;; 16:24, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but you'll just have to keep practicing. We can't make our art worse so the apprentices can keep up more easily. I 18:32, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Just keep practicing, and you'll get to the same skill level as the more experienced users. It takes lots of dedication, hard work, and effort. Just ask any of them. 20:34, November 9, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Don't worry. Sometimes I feel like this to, like how I'll never be as 'good' as them. But we don't always go at the same pace, and we have to remember that. M is   t y pe bb le   ♪Goo d day♪ just go with |undefined the flow   21:08, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

How can chararts be too good? We do them, to make them please you guys to fit the character. Like Cloudskye said, each artist has a different level and we practice ''all the time. ''If you're new, it's obvious you won't be as good as the senior warriors and older warriors. And in what matter can't you "keep up?" All you're supposed to do it comment. The artist has to keep up with their work. You can't be too good to keep up with, every user is just the same. 21:24, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

I have a point and slight reason to disagree with what Cloudskye said and Splashpelt repeated; I haven't practiced almost at all, some people are just good with art as it is. I'm not saying my chararts are amazing and everything, because i know they're not, but i'm going by what others say. And overall, all i'm saying is some people might not need to practice as much others, but I do have to agree that we should not have the feeling like we need to compare to others. We are all amazing at chararts, needless to belive we should compare them. :) . 22:41, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Thistle. This project is to create and improve charart, not to compare our skills to others. 23:11, November 9, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

If it's any consolation, look into the history of this image: and tell me that practice hasn't made me better? It took me, I think, four months to get approved, but now it gets done in a matter of mere days. Just try doing different cats, pelt types, blanks, look at the various art tools at your disposal. Yes, not everyone needs practice, but some do. I believe that with a little hard work, everyone's art can be as phenomenal as the leads'. 23:41, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Ivy, you're not the only one. File:Oakheart.warrior.alt.png was my third image, and it took me quite a few months as well to complete it. Now look at me. Geting images approved in a matter of days. It takes tons of practice. Yes, some are blessed with talent, but for those who aren't, practice is the only thing you can do. Look at tutorials, ask how the others make their images. But, don't complain about it. >.> 23:46, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

What would be the point of having Senior Warriors and Warriors if they weren't more experienced, and therefore better at chararts than the apprentices? We should all just be called warriors if there weren't different levels of skill. We've all been apprentices at some point, and all know how it feels to see, say, the leader's chararts, then see yours. It can be discouraging, but all the warriors and leads have gotten where they are by practicing. It's not like any of us got good over night. I think most of us have had those chararts that have taken a couple months to be approved to. :P So, as everybody's already said, just keep practicing, and don't compare your chararts with other's. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  01:07, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Ivy and Cloudy. My first charart (Rainflower) took like three months to get approved! Just keep on practicing! You know the saying: "Practice makes perfect". Always works. Just keep on practicing. Then you'll regret posting this. xD 01:32, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

It's okay, Loud! Ok, Ivy and Cloudy aren't the only ones either look at the first upload of File:Skyheart.warrior.png! I practice chararts almost every day, and I promise you it helps you a lot. Just read the tutorials, and listen to what they say. Soon enough, you'll great skills. :) 03:27, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

I know how you feel, honestly. When I first joined, I envied all the lead's art as well as some of my fellow apprentices' *coughcough*Iceheart*coughcough*Wildheart*coughcough* I know it's sometimes hard not to compare yourself to others, but I don't think you're being quite fair to yourself. You're a newer user and don't have as much experience as the rest of us. You'll get better with practice, tutorials, and finding your own style. I felt just the same with Night Shine, but take the time to look at their styles, tutorials, see what works for them and then make your own style with mixes from others or something that's totally your own. Maybe tabbies aren't your strong point, that's fine. Everyone has their own specialty. For me, I think it's ginger and white cats, Iceheart, torties, you get the picture. I can offer you three bits of advice: I hope this helps, Loudsplash. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 23:18, November 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Stay true to yourself and give yourself a reality check. Some of us have been here longer and we have more experience and practice.
 * 2) Practice with different styles, different blanks, different ideas. You'll get there
 * 3) Don't be afraid to ask older users for advice, but not to fix your mistakes for you. That's something you have to learn yourself.

?
I can't find my name on the list and can someone tell me why? I don't know how to put my name on the table thing that shows what you are doing. If I am not in the project anymore, can I re-join?

Purplemoon51012 23:07, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

You were probably removed due to inactivity. Only leads can re-add users. You'd have to ask them. 23:11, November 9, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

You were removed for inactivity. You can rejoin, but all users must stay active to remain in the project. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 23:13, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Oh. Well, then thanks for letting me know because I haven't downloaded GIMP on this computer yet so... I will let you know when I download it. Purplemoon51012 22:04, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Art Theft on Facebook
|here Title says it all. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 23:27, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

I commented as well. ( also sent you a friend request. xDDD ) 23:33, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

I commented on it as well, trying to make them see that it's not ok to do. I don't want it to get ugly but if I have to, I'll report it to Facebook's admins (lol's as people see me on there and I get 10 friend requests xDD) 23:37, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

I tried to report it, but Chrome doesn't like Facebook, and froze. (It won't let me add you. FAIL). 23:41, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff. Shelly MAD. Shelly '''SMASH. ''' 00:09, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, they're going to die now, aren't they? I knew it wouldn't be long before you saw the image. XDDDDD 00:11, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Shelly report. Shelly provide links to every image stolen. Shelly maaaaad. 00:30, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Shelly should go see the trolls on the page, telling US to get over it. >.>;; 00:31, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

I've joined in, and I'm not shutting up until it's deleted :D 00:35, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. The more the better! 00:36, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

I swear... I'm gonna kick their sorry butts in gear if they don't take that down. I'm gonna keep ranting until that's taken down and I bet I can think of about a million more arguments in our defense than they ever could!!! Scarlet ain't happy. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 00:53, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

I don't get what makes them so damn special. We do this for every image we see. They have God complexes, every last one of them. 00:57, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

As my camp director says, "tenacity pays off!" Warriors 1; Facebook 0! :DD - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 01:17, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Good. They removed it. Now, if we see it again, we ALL know what to do, right? 01:19, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

One word: SWARM!!! - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 01:21, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Hiatus
I was hopoing it wouldn't come to this, but for the rest of the month I will be taking a long hiatus. Reasons I will not give. Anyone who wants to take over Wind (Q) is more than welcome to. I'll be back December 1st! 00:13, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, we'll miss you :( Do you mind if I do Wind? 00:15, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Of course Oblivion. ^^ 00:16, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! See you December first, and I hope everything's okay :) 00:19, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

I hope everything's okay also, see you until then, buddy! ^_^ 03:23, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Aw, bai Silvereye! We'll all miss you, see you in December! (Perry is gonna glomp you) xD 12:33, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Shading Placement
I understand that this might not concern some people, but I've seen several charart tutorials and most of them have a section on shading placement. It kind of bothers me that there are different images on the shading placement, that have different places where the shading is put. I understand all the light source thing, but I think it would be less confusing if we narrow the different images of shading placement down to one, shown on all the different tutorials. That way, if we all follow the one shading placement image, when it's gone up for approval there hopefully houldn't be any comments on "Move the shading on the midriff closer to the middle" or whatever it is? Ideas? 06:27, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

We don't HAVE to use what's on the guidelines.... I don't. In fact, I've never used the shading redlines or anything of the sort. Each artist has their own style, and the guidelines are there for the basic placement. Actually, I don't use a light source, either. xD 06:29, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

But to avoid comments like center the shading on the face more, wouldn't it be good if we just kept one of the guiding images? I'm not saying that we have to use it, just so the artists can get a pretty good idea of where the shading should go. Also is there a highlight placement image? I've never come across one. 06:49, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

The only shading tutorial I've ever even looked at is the one on Nightshine's tutorial, which is here. As for a highlight one, I wouldn't know, because I don't use those either. 06:59, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

EDIT: Found one for you. Look here, on Ivystripe's awesome tutorial. XD 07:03, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Nvm^^. I read it wrong. 07:04, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

We can't tell people how to set up shading. What would the point of that be? We chan suggest that they make their shading more logical looking, but as long as it fulfills its purpose (making the image look more three dimensional by showing the contours of the body) there's no reason a member can't put the shading where they please. 12:44, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

I understand that's fair enough. But for example, what if someone isn'y sure about a light source, or what it should look like. I'm not talking about anyone in specific here, but most people know what a light source is. I've seen some comments on other's chararts, saying move the highlights/shading there. I also realised this happens mainly for hightlights, and I think in tutorials we need to be more specific abotu about where hightlights should go. 05:25, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Redoing Images?
Okay, FEEL FREE to COMPLETELY disagree with me. But anyways, I'm starting not to like the rule, when someone redos an image, they have to do the rest of the character's images. I know it's a fine idea and all, but people sometimes don't follow that rule, and the images turns out fine. People actually don't follow that rule quite often. Besides, without the rule, it would give more warriors a chance to tweak an image. Bottom line, I'm not so happy with this rule, and there are so many rules in PCA. 01:13, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. I might not be a warrior but when I am one, that is one rule we can do with out. I just want to tweak charart's so i know how to do those certain types of cats, like white's or tabbies or torties, and others. I don't want to have to follow taht because that limits the amout of charart's you can tweak and i find it unfair. Rain face &lt;3 01:16, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

To me, if you can copy the other artist's stripes or markings, you're fine. The user who has done the first image shouldn't have the act to focus on everything else. If you can copy, then do it, in my opinion. 01:24, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

How about asking permission from the person first before redoing an image that they were supposed to? (kinda like redoing an image & asking a lead) That way people wont bring the rule up when this occurs - 01:27, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I did that with Wildheart. I don't like this rule either, and we aren't exactly following it at the moment. Since it was created, we've violated it at least 10 times. 01:40, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I still like the idea, but maybe not make it so much a rule but more a basic good idea. So maybe, say that it's a good idea but not an actual rule. Other users would be given the chance to do characters that have been started by other users. i.e. Say I did Firestar's leader again but Stoneclaw decided to try his warrior. That'd be fine, but if the charart becomes to difficult, the other artist could be asked to do it since it only takes about 2-5 days to get approved. Thoughts? - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 01:47, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I can see what you guys mean, but, this is in place too to prevent a person from redoing an image then not doing the rest. Take me doing Goldenflower for example. I did a very complicated tabby pattern for her. Now, if I had just left it, maybe somebody else might do her queen. But they get frustrated because 1) they don't have her base colors and/or 2) It's too complicated for them to perfect. Also, I would have been kind of frustrated with someone doing one of her images because I knew exactly how her stripes were supposed to look on both sides of her, and that's something else to take into consideration. I'm not saying we have to stick to the rule, but I do rather like it. I do like the idea of it being a guideline, but fights could break out if, say, I did Goldenflower's warrior, then somebody did Goldenflower's kit, and I had wanted to do all of her images and there was nothing to say who was right. 01:58, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I like Scarletwind's idea. So (another example) lets say I for some reason re-did my first image, Skyheart, and all of the other images had to be redone. Someone could as me if I could do one of the other images, and I'd reply either yes or no. If no one ever asked me if I could do one of the other images, then I'd automatically do it. How's that? I am terrible at explaining things, so if that was difficult to comprehend then tell me. 02:43, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Ivystripe and Scarletwind. I think that the rule should stay, because the artist who did one rank knows the style and has the colors, but if someone askes if they can re-do the image, the one who was re-doing all the other images had to reply a yes or a no. If they say yes, and the one now doing the rank with permission finds it too difficult, the original artist doing all the ranks can take over. 05:32, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if I like the idea of it being a rule, I think I like it being an idea. What do you guys think about this? 05:54, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Join Request
Might I join? Hope I can be active enough. Two weeks is the max absence right? ~Breezewhisker~ 04:52, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Shelly's going to be happy to see this. Of course you can join! Read the guidelines if you're confused on anything, and I highly doubt you'll need the tutorial link, but here it is anyways. xD 05:21, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Also, yes. It's two weeks without activity, unless it's a legit reason - like a family emergency or something of that nature. 05:24, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, thank you. ~Breezewhisker~ 05:41, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

May I also join? I'm active pretty much every day, and I've been practicing with the program and I think I've got the hang of it. D a  z  z  l  e  w  i  n  g  A  star  with  a  purpose 08:28, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Of course :) Please look at the guidelines and the tutorials listed above if you have any questions. Welcome to PCA! 20:29, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Apprentice Blanks
Shouldn't we remove the old apprentice blanks from the main Project page? 18:55, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me. Since the new ones are up for approval now, I see no need to keep the others up; users might thing they're still being used. 20:33, November 11, 2011 (UTC)