Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

Minor characters
Since the topic was brought up again, I'd like to propose that we make a page for extremely minor characters. Here's an idea for a template, and here's an idea for a layout for the page. Opinions? 12:09 Thu Jul 30

That's not a bad idea at all. :) I like this, but what about if the character has more than one art? It's probably unlikely but what does everyone think? 20:37, July 30, 2015 (UTC)

If the character has more than one image, the character pixels gallery would work just fine. 08:03 Wed Aug 5

Is this for every single character that is mentioned in the books? 12:25, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

No, it's extremely minor characters that have some significance, or just extremely minor characters. Like some unnamed BloodClan warriors in the BloodClan battle. Some cats there appeared in more than one sentence, like the indentical gray toms recognised Barley as a former BloodClan cat. We could also look at the Dark Forest battle. I'd say unnamed characters that are mentioned in more than on sentence. 22:00, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

I've started a list of minor characters with the series. Just to say, but there is an error to the coding in the Charart template, since it goes after the main page name rather than the title. 08:05, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

Err, it's way too short and doesn't list allegiances and book appereances. I think Berry's one is pretty good. 10:40, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

What??!!! I wasn't trying to take over Berry's version. That page is a page for potential minor characters and it just contains information about them. Not the actual page. Why the heck would I even try to take over Berry's page? It's rude, condescending and stupid .-. 11:26, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

???? It's just a list of unnamed characters by book and the info we have about them...? Rather than an actual template/page layout like Berry's...? Anyway, I'm not too sure we should make a page for all of them - I don't think the 'Orange WindClan warrior' who was part of a patrol or something gets a page - pages should be reserved for unnamed characters with somewhat of a significance (Dappletail's Kit, Lowbranch's Mother, etc.) Maybe for the most minor characters, we could have a page like 'minor unnamed characters' and categorize it by book, the info about the characters put in using Berry's template. Idk. 13:45, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

That...was the idea we started on. That's why I made the template. One big page for every extremely minor character too minor even for a page. That's why the page layout's there. That's what I image the page would end up looking like; lists of cats with info and the history. Also, I think Burnt's list is only there as that; a list. Not an attempt at replacing my template idea, so could we calm down a little? 13:49 Sat Aug 15

All right, my apologies. I think I missed something in the discussion, oops. 13:55, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry I came across that way Brunt. It wasn't my intention. 00:55, August 16, 2015 (UTC)

Anymore comments? 05:05, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

I'd just like to ask if everyone thinks the layout for the history sections looks okay. I could probably put everything into the template since most of the minor character's histories are short enough for it... 11:30 Sat Aug 29

There's a coding error for the charart template, it names the files after the page name rather than the character name. Is it possible to fix it? 11:38, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

I can assure you nothing like that happens in this template. I'm fixing up an example on my test wiki right now, so we'll all be able to see how it properly works then. 11:55 Sat Aug 29

Sorry, I read that wrong. Are you talking about the gallery template? We could probably create a separate template for this, or edit the one their is now to work for this page. 11:58 Sat Aug 29

Oh yeah, I was. Sorry for being unclear. 12:37, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah the charart box and gallery is automatic. I think there's a way but I'm not an expert on coding. 04:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

I took a look at the template and the code that puts in the name is just a #switch tag, so it'll be easy to put something in for this minor character page. 07:13 Tue Sep 8

Can you put back up an example? I'd like to have a look at the template and fix anything else needed to before we talk more on what cats to include. 08:40, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Examples. 12:07 Sat Sep 12

Hmm, can you show a bit more example? I more or so want to see how the affiliations work, with past and present and all that. Also family too, how will we list family? Especially with really long family sections. 22:00, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

Berry? Hello? 00:19, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

I'm getting to it now. I haven't really had the time and motivation to deal with this this week. Sorry. 05:56 Wed Sep 23

I don't know...I still disagree. They have their articles and I don't think they need anything else. 13:55, September 27, 2015 (UTC)

What are you talking about Icy? Allegiance only characters wouldn't go on this page if that's what you're thinking. This page would be for characters who are mentioned like, super briefly. Like "the black tom glared at Fireheart as he walked past" sort of characters. 15:45 Sun Sep 27

Oh, so you mean cats that aren't named? Okay. That makes a lot more sense. 19:34, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

But uh, I should probably say - good luck. There are a lot of unnamed characters. Also, I'd like to help if you don't mind. 19:35, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

Examples updated. More examples, added some stuff to the template. Ignore that bottom part - joke with some friends. 12:25 Thu Oct 1

Now I'm really loving these! Do we want these templates multiple colours or try to match them to the wiki's colour somewhat? 22:36, October 1, 2015 (UTC)

The different colours of the headers, as stated on the page, is supposed to represent the cat's affiliation. We'd put a key somewhere, and probably order the cats by group and all that. I was lazy and wanted to show off the nice colours. 17:25 Fri Oct 2

Looking good, Bert!!! Does anyone have any suggestions/ideas for that template, or is it just about ready to go? 00:55, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

[pokes] hey guys anyone else got anything to say about this? i wanna make sure the template is as perfect as possible before we implement it 12:34 Mon Oct 12

Like the character template, can you add optional other sections on some examples? Like past affiliations and cause of death. Can we discuss what characters to add to this page? Just unnamed characters or very very minor characters, like Gorsefoot or something. 21:56, October 15, 2015 (UTC)

Hello? Berry? 00:19, October 25, 2015 (UTC)

Honestly I thought this was only ever going to have very, very minor characters. Say, allegiance-onlys and cats that are mentioned while someone's passing by or "a black cat streaked past" sort of thing... 03:04 Wed Oct 28

[nudges this] opinions, guys? 09:36 Wed Nov 4

Why would characters who are shown in the allegiances get featured on that page? Some of them hardly stay allegiance only for the entire series... It wouldn't make sense to put those characters on that page.. chances are, they'll show up later. It's good for characters who aren't named, sure, but ones that are and have their own description, affiliation, rank, ect, should probably have their own page.. especially with some of these newer cats, since we don't know if we'll see them again.

Alright then, no allegiance only cats. Just minor unnamed characters then? Or does anyone else wanna add anything? Anymore modifications I should make to the infobox thing before I make it an actual template on the wiki? 06:32 Fri Nov 13

any more comments on this? 02:50, November 17, 2015 (UTC)

I think the silence means either the template is ready (I think it is anyway) or this discussion needs to be archived and brought back up lower down. 02:15, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Character Template
Alright, so we all know the ongoing issue with the character template, right? It's not showing up right for some, but correct for others. Basically, it's full of outdated and expired coding, complicated statements that are probably unnecessary, and tbh could probably be formatted better due to us constantly deciding to add/remove fields- some sections could use some expansion in their width or height as well. Tribe names are infamous for this- the entire name doesn't properly show up if it's too long, and don't even get me started on having to put "Teller of the Pointed Stones" (with or without 'Stoneteller' at the end of it). I would like to propose a revamp or even a restyle on the character template to make it a bit more functional and easier to fit all of the information. I had a basic thing here and then there was other examples here and in the general history of the page, but I couldn't get some of the sections to show up properly... but yeah, I'd really like to eventually redo and/or tweak this template so it actually works for everyone.

I'd prefer to keep the blue colour, but these still look great! Can you put more on one of the examples as I'd like to see what a full template looks like if you don't mind. ^^ I think you just add age, cause of death, deputy/leader/medicine cat positions and book appearances. Maybe do a Firestar example? He has the biggest template. 21:23, September 16, 2015 (UTC)

Honestly that template does need an update. It's extremely hard to create the thing on different pages because I end up having to jump back and forth between articles to work out the long field names and how everything should be put in, etc.. Plus, as you've pointed out Jayce, the size of different parts just don't work for some pages. Family and education parts sometimes screw up and put different names on different lines and stuff.

I really like the colour scheme on the second one, but I think instead of having rounded boxes we should stick with the rectangle/square thing (or maybe try playing around with the padding; rounded edges have never really worked for me). I agree with an example, but probably not Firestar, because that is a very big Charcat. Perhaps you could try Cloudtail or even Gray Wing, since we've had trouble with his family section before? <span style="">05:08 Sat Sep 19

Thanks for the input, you two! I'll get to fixing that around Tuesday, since that's the next time I have off work! If there's any other suggestions, go ahead and put them here. Also, maybe we could incorporate Burntclaw's idea about translated names into this as well? Because how the template is now, that would be really hard to do.

That's not a bad idea, actually. I wouldn't be against having a translated names section in the Charcat template; it would save having to add a whole new section to articles that are already really long. Perhaps you could have it as a dropdown or something? <span style="">09:40 Mon Sep 21

If you're suggesting putting translated names into the template, I disagree. I think that'd cause a lot of hassle, and warriors is translated into a lot of languages ... Also, there's a page just for that. There's no need for it to be on the template. However revamping the template sounds like a great idea. 17:56, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

Opinions? 00:09, October 2, 2015 (UTC)

It wouldn't be too much of a hassle, imo. It's not too hard to find names in different languages now that all the alternate language Warriors Wikis are popping up. We've also got a few of English-as-second-language editors that could give us a hand. It'd also be easier than crawling through the whole translated names list for one character's name.

Jayce, have you added anything to your examples recently? I can tell a bit's changed but I can't find all the changes. totally not because im too lazy to compared the history <span style="">17:33 Fri Oct 2

Comments? 05:18, October 12, 2015 (UTC)

Hello? Jayce? 06:03, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

I've been busy as hell and haven't had the time to properly sit down and focus on this. I'll let you know when I've made the proposed tweaks.

are you still working? 02:50, November 17, 2015 (UTC)

I'll archive this until you are ready to keep going Snowed. 02:15, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Nettlesplash, Sandypaw, etc
so i'm here to bring up another topic, (yay) which is why exactly do nettlesplash and other such skyclan cats have kittypet images for? i'm aware they were taking food from a twoleg, but......they were still feral the entire time. they werent ever in a house (that i know of), never held for a time (graystripe, leafstar) and never renounced their loyalty to skyclan like...ever. its entirely possible for a cat to get twoleg food while still being feral; you can feed a stray cat for a time, but that doesnt make it a housecat immediately. that takes time and the skyclan cats were doing it for a reason i think? or they were just greedy. whichever, but basically im proposing we remove the kittypet affiliations, (and by extension the chararts, but thats not for here.) 15:08, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

No, they weren't taking it for a reason. They were willingly taking kittypet food instead of hunting for it themselves. They weren't staring, sick, or suffering. There wasn't a lack of prey, either. They were being sneaky and tbh due to their actions, were acting like kittypets by taking the food willingly without another motive behind it.

Yes, but they didn't live with Twolegs, and I think that's what is defined as a kittypet. The definition of kittypet is:

"A kittypet is the Clan cats' word for housecats, that Twolegs keep and care for."

The twolegs didnn't keep those guys. They just went for food, and they didn't live with htem. 18:19, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

But they also went more than once. If they'd gone once, then I would agree, but the fact that they went back, hid it from their Clanmates, and had plans to go back again had they not been caught by Leafstar and the others kinda makes me think they'd have just kept on doing it. Willingly taking food multiple times should count for something.

nah, theyre just ebing greedy. and sure they went back multiple times, but did we ever see any intention that they would have become kittypets, no. like ive said feeding stray cats doesnt make them housecats. 18:30, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

Tbh I never understood why their images were there, and I agree with Skt - being greedy for pet food =/= kittypet 21:56, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

I'm on the fence with this one. They kinda became kittypets but kinda didn't... 00:17, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

Tbh they weren't kitty pets they just took food so 04:27, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

You guys also need to remember that some of these choices were made long before you even joined. The only ones around now who were around back then are people like me, Icy, Splook, David, and Roo. We had a discussion or something along those lines, so it's not like it was randomly added. Clan standard for a kittypet is not the same as PCA and PC's standard. Context implied they were acting as kittypets, by taking food willingly from a Twoleg and going back multiple times.

if they get it because they were 'acting' like kittypts ( i still dont agree) then why doesnt every cat whos ever pretended to be a rank theyre not get that image? it wouldnt matter their intent then, because if a different clan cat saw them then theyd think they were a kittypet or whatever. but moving on, they didnt leave the clan. thats my point. they didnt leave, they were still loyal, they werent kittypets. its just them being greedy, and it happens? it doesnt make them a sudden kittypet. calling them one is false, they ever even went in a house, werent even taken. SHRUG 10:51, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

you also might as well add hollowflight and whoever else it was to have kittypet images as well then, since they got kittypet food in MO. :/ 10:56, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

Gotta agree with Trolly here. 16:56, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

ehhh I'm indifferent about this one. If they strictly came to the Twolegs for food only, then is that really being a kittypet, or just a mooch? If they just went for food, and food alone, that doesn't spell kittypet to me. That sounds more like "ehh I don't wanna hunt my own food so I'm gonna eat some kittypet food". On the other hand, I see where Cloudy is coming from. PC and PCA's standards are different from personal opinions and/or book description. If the project standard for a kittypet is "a cat who strayed from the loyalty of their birth Clan into a relationship with a Twoleg feeder or caretaker", then they were technically a kittypet. <span style="">22:39 Thu Oct 8

If that's the definition of a kittypet, then Nettlesplash and etc fits. 20:42, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

Anymore comments? 00:52, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

No, the "kittypet" definition is what was listed before: cats who are kept and cared for by Twolegs. True, Nettlesplash and the others were cared for, but they weren't kept. They are still not kittypets. 01:13, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

What's our definition of kittypets? That's probably the real issue. 02:15, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

Well in Secrets of the Clans the definition if "A domesticated pet cat". And on the kittypet article it's a house cat that Twolegs keep and care for. The SkyClan cats weren't kept by twolegs. So I still disagree. 20:29, November 15, 2015 (UTC)

if its saying that in the book then its really canon and the images should be removed? none of these cats are owned. 20:42, November 15, 2015 (UTC)

have we reached a conclusion? 02:50, November 17, 2015 (UTC)

If that's our definition than they are not kittypets. Simple as that. 02:15, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Mentioned Characters
I might have suggested this before or something. Anyway, the minor characters category is a bit overwhelmingly long since there is a lot of characters. I think it'll be a good idea to make a category for characters that are only mentioned, like Oatspeckle or Dappletail's Kit. Allegiances only characters, I guess because they are only well, mentioned on the allegiances. 05:31, October 29, 2015 (UTC)

Yep, agreed. Should we also make a supporting characters category? I can see some cats who would go on that - Cloud Spots, Dappled Pelt, Brindleface, Bright Stream, Frostfur, Goldenflower, Lightning Tail, etc... 01:12, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

Don't we already have a supporting characters category? 02:18, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

Yes we do. You can check what we have here. It also shows we have 840 minor characters... 02:48, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

"Mentioned Characters" would be a good category, but at the same time... We have way too many minor characters, and some of these are probably a bit more than minor, but not quite supporting and in no way major or main.

My bad. Then some of the minor characters should be moved to supporting characters. 18:40, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

Do that then. I have no problems with those characters. 21:23, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

Can we have more opinions on the mentioned characters category please? 02:16, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

will this be for characters that are mentioned only, or any cat thats been mentioned but doesnt appear in a book? because the category page would include virtually every single cat then, worse than the minor characters page. 18:06, November 14, 2015 (UTC)

have we reached a conclusion? 02:50, November 17, 2015 (UTC)

No, characters that are only mentioned, basically have never made an appearance in any books at all. Like Oatspeckle for example. 04:46, November 18, 2015 (UTC)

Anymore comments or are we gonna make this category? 02:15, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Thunder
Bringing up Thunder again, does he need a status as rogue? He never was a rogue - his entire life was spent as an early settler. 01:14, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

Well he wasn't born as an Early Settler, he was born in the Twolegplace. That could be it, but that could more or so count as a rogue than anything else. 02:48, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

Is he ever stated to be a rogue, though? Unless he's stated to be one, then I don't think he should be given that title. <span style="">11:05 Sat Oct 31

He was a kit when he was born in the twolegplace, he never grew up there. And no, while I was working on all of the DOTC summaries I never saw him once listed as a rogue. 14:26, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

i think its in sotc. and what about when he was with neither the moor cats nor clear skys cats? does that count or not. 18:38, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

When he was traveling to hsi new camp? No, he'd still be apart of thunder's camp. 18:39, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

how so though? his camp didn't exist then. 18:42, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

The camp wasn't settled, but the group was. It was too short in my opinion anyway. I think Thunder gets a rank for being born and living the first few days in the Twolegplace. His mother did leave Clear Sky's Camp and became either a rogue/loner again. 21:25, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

The cite isn't even from Dawn of the Clans, guys. It's from Secrets of the Clans. If we have a cite for it, no matter how wrong it's been proven, it kinda has to stay on the article... just like the incorrect mentors that we had with that book and Yellowfang's Secret.

It could go in the trivia. 01:45, November 1, 2015 (UTC)

Secrets of the Clans doesn't directly say they are rogues. I'll quote: "These were not warrior cats. They lived in small groups, not yet Clans." That matches the description of the Early Settlers. That cite should be removed. I still think he was a rogue when he was a kit, but that would only affect the past allegiance, that's it. 02:27, November 1, 2015 (UTC)

quote from the blazing star: ''"I was born in the Twolegplace! My mother was a rogue, and I would've been one too, if Gray Wing hadn't taken me in." -Thunder, chapter 22. So basically he says he COULD'VE been one, but he wasn't. 01:26, November 2, 2015 (UTC)

I think he means he could've of grown up as a rogue. I mean, was he an Early Settler when he was born? His mother wasn't, she purposely left to have her kits. So really, he was a rogue, just for a few days. 03:09, November 2, 2015 (UTC)

No...he was a /kit/, not an early settler or a rogue. He said he would've been a rogue if Gray Wing hadn't taken him in. 03:42, November 4, 2015 (UTC)

So... Pine Needle and Drizzle never officially were part of Slash's Camp then? That's kinda what you're telling me. Rogue doesn't go under Thunder's names and he doesn't get a charart, but it will be listed as part of his past affie. That's what we do with kits. 03:09, November 14, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, but he was like a very tiny kit for honestly 2 days. It really isn't big enouhg to count in my opinion ... but if you think it's like that, go ahead. 22:26, November 14, 2015 (UTC)

He was technically born as a rogue, but since he wasn't six moons, it doesn't get counted. They're kits, simple. It's a universal rank/cite/ect that all characters under six moons get counted as. If the cite for him being a rogue that was in Secrets of the Clans is wrong, then remove it... although given that they often fought and shit, I'm willing to actually label that as what a rogue is- the Early Settlers did not exist during Secrets of the Clans. They were just groups of cats that lived together.

have we reached a conclusion? 05:11, November 25, 2015 (UTC)

Pink Eyes ~ Silver Nomination
Finding quotes is kinda hard for me since I use PDFs, so if anyone wants more they're gonna need to help me find page numbers. Comments? <span style="">12:10 Sat Oct 31

More quotes please. Just put in the chapter, I'll find the page number. 21:40, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

done <span style="">09:35 Wed Nov 4

Moth Flight's Vision needs filled out.

still working? 02:47, November 17, 2015 (UTC)

i can't find a pdf for mfv and i cant get the solid book. if someone could lend me a hand with this it'd be appreciated <span style="">06:29 Tue Nov 17

I could help you with that section.

Finished

Comments before vote? 05:11, November 25, 2015 (UTC)

Owl Eyes ~ Silver Nomination
Boy he is certainly not a minor character. Comments? 01:07, November 1, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 00:34, November 6, 2015 (UTC)

Again, this needs to have Moth Flight's Vision filled out. You can't just CBV an article without making sure it's complete. Having a missing section is not complete.

still working? 02:46, November 17, 2015 (UTC)

Yes! finally got my hands in a book. 21:06, November 17, 2015 (UTC)

Updated 21:44, November 18, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 20:53, November 23, 2015 (UTC)

Vote's up! 02:15, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Pine Needle ~ Silver Nomination
Cute. I'll be doing his sister next. Comments? 01:07, November 1, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 00:34, November 6, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, but the Moth Flight's Vision section needs to be finished. He does in fact appear.

Many thanks to Burntclaw for getting that for me! :) Re-CBV? 06:22, November 7, 2015 (UTC)

There's a comment on Drizzle that addresses both this and her article...

Updated 21:44, November 18, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 20:53, November 23, 2015 (UTC)

Vote's up! 02:15, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Drizzle ~ Silver Nomination
So cute. Comments? 03:40, November 2, 2015 (UTC)

Fill out the section for Moth Flight's Vision, please. She does appear, even though it's not all that much.

I do not have the book and I nominated this before the book came out, so I think it's a little unfair to ask me to fill it in. I'll fill it in when I can, but I have to do it now I'll have to withdraw for now. 20:31, November 4, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 04:36, November 7, 2015 (UTC)

Okay, but you can't just CBV it. That's not right at all. I'm sorry, but if a section is not complete when it's up for nomination, that means it is not permitted to be ranked up to silver. You'll need to either wait until someone finishes the section for you, or somehow get a copy of the book and do it yourself.

I finished it. 06:17, November 7, 2015 (UTC)

both this and pine needles section needs context as to whats actually happening, less laters, and less one liners. 06:25, November 7, 2015 (UTC)

still working? 02:48, November 17, 2015 (UTC)

Yes! finally got my hands in a book. 04:44, November 18, 2015 (UTC)

Updated 21:44, November 18, 2015 (UTC)

CBV? 20:53, November 23, 2015 (UTC)

Vote's up! 02:15, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Major Characters
So I was thinking we could have some sort of discussion on how the major characters are classified, or /who/ they are per say. For example, I don't exactly agree with Turtle Tail and Jagged Peak being main characters in the DOTC arc, along with Sol, Rock, and Ashfur being main ones in the third series. I also don't really agree with Tigerstar, Firestar, or Hawkfrost in OTS, but I think we should have a discussion and come to a conclusion on /who/ the main characters are, and have an actual definition. Thoughts? 22:24, November 2, 2015 (UTC)

From what I can tell currently, main characters are whoever has had their own narration of a book. I'm fine with just listing characters the highest of importance they've reached in a book. 22:59, November 2, 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. 23:04, November 2, 2015 (UTC)

tbh i think this category should be gotten rid of. People have different opinions on who is major and who isn't for example, i could think Star flower had a big impact on the plot, but someone else might disagree. Main characters and mentioned characters are fine since it isn't an opinion whether they had a pOV b4 or not. 01:23, November 4, 2015 (UTC)

It's kinda important that category, so I think it should stay. 03:09, November 14, 2015 (UTC)

have we reached a conclusion?

Can we have more opinions on this or does the silence mean the category should stay? 02:07, November 24, 2015 (UTC)

Names Again
Hey I'm back. So in Mothflight's Vision, the names don't combine. For example, Lightning Tail doesn't become Lightningtail and Cloud Spots doesn't become Cloudspots. Can we change these articles now? I mean, sure, you could wait for a novella to explain this, but you should probably get confirmation we'll have one, or that their names /will/ change. hinthint i'm asking for one of you to ask kate hinthint But yes. Should we change the names or not? 23:00, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

Can I get some comment on this? 01:12, November 9, 2015 (UTC)

i think theyre fine to leave as is, its very possible they do combine their names later on. (not that cats know the alphabet or anything.) 18:04, November 14, 2015 (UTC)

We have evidence it does eventually combine so unless we have something that says otherwise, leave it. 21:50, November 14, 2015 (UTC)

Yes but they are known throughout the entire series as their separate names, and we only get confirmation that they're combined in at least one field guide where it is known to have lots of mistakes. I know that sounds like a really weak argument, but eh. 09:31, November 15, 2015 (UTC)

Well, I'd be okay with renaming Lightningtail, Cloudspots, Pebbleheart, and Dapplepelt, if only for the sole fact that we have many more instances of them being called Cloud Spots, Pebble Heart, and Dappled Pelt, instead of the names we were given in Secrets of the Clans. I wouldn't be okay for renaming Mothflight, however, as she's also seen as Mothflight in Tallstar's Revenge, and that's a much more recent book. While Secrets of the Clans might be more recent in the timeline, we also should probably go with what's the most familiar; ie; Shadow being renamed to Tall Shadow, Graywing being renamed to Gray Wing, ect.

At the same time, asking Kate what happens with these names would also be appropriate, if only for the sole reason that we could use it for oranization and clarification...since it really isn't made clear enough if they ever do change their names.

Why would we rename Tall Shadow? She changed her name to Shadowstar in MFV. 16:19, November 15, 2015 (UTC)

have we reached a conclusion? 02:50, November 17, 2015 (UTC)

Give other people a chance to comment- it's only been a few days. And idk if I told you, but I was using Tall Shadow as an example. Honestly, I'm still unclear as to exactly which pages you think we should move.

Lightningtail, Cloudspots, Pebbleheart, Owleyes, Dapplepelt, Cloudspots 12:27, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

Well, we wouldn't re-name Owleyes/Owlstar because there was never any definite confirmation he and Owl Eyes were the same cat, right? 01:30, November 23, 2015 (UTC)

No, I still think Owleyes should be Owl Eyes ... 05:10, November 25, 2015 (UTC)

But Owlstar/Owleyes and Owl Eyes were never confirmed as the same cat. So I'm not really seeing why we would re-name Owleyes when we have no proof he was ever called Owl Eyes. 22:34, November 26, 2015 (UTC)

There's no cite whatsoever linking Owl Eyes (Turtle Tail's kit) and Owlstar (ThunderClan's second leader), so as far as that goes, the pages will need to stay as they are. As for the other pages, I'm not sure we should rename them at all- we have at least one cite that says their names were merged... at least with Gray Wing, the cite was considered invalid or flat out wrong, I think? We still don't know what happened and when/if they merged their names.

I still think asking Kate if they actually did merge their names is appropriate, or if this was an error and something forgotten about when Dawn of the Clans was being written. Given the controversy surrounding the canonicity of Secrets of the Clans, just moving the pages without consulting someone (like Kate, since she wrote Moth Flight's Vision and half of Dawn of the Clans..) wouldn't be in our best interests, imo. The field guide is still very much canon, so we shouldn't disregard it quite yet. I know that isn't what I said up there^, but I've done a bit more thinking since then and decided that I, personally, think we should get an answer from someone who wrote the books. (and this doesn't mean ask Vicky; she did not write Dawn of the Clans.)

Unnamed kits
this has been bugging me for a while. when i look at some characters articles, the amount of 'unnamed kits' can get really confusing. would itt be a bad idea if in the kin section, unnamed kits is listed as something like 'Clear Sky and Storm's 2 kits', or 'such and such's 2nd litter' so that one is able to identify what kits they are? sorry if this is incoherent,, iits 5am. 16:08, November 12, 2015 (UTC)

mmmm i wouldnt think that would work. probably not because it would get too cluttery with that amount of wording instead of the two words 'unnamed kits'. 16:28, November 12, 2015 (UTC)

its not about length though. its about identifying whos who, and not everyone is able to recognise what kits they are purely off a page number, or eveen want to.

I don't think it would be clutter-y at all, honestly. It would be really nice to be able to distinguish which kits are which. I know I got totally confused on Clear Sky's page at first... and it would be much easier to tell who is who and make sure the cites are up-to-date and not doubled (like in the case of Gray Wing's kits; some of the cats related to him could still have the "unnamed kits" thing for he and Slate's)

Yeah perhaps like with Clear Sky's page: Bright Stream's Kits and Storm's Kits. Perhaps add there are two kits too. 20:44, November 12, 2015 (UTC)

yeah i think it should only be for multiple litters or such, and i think something like 'Clear Sky and Bright Stream's 2 kits' or 'Clear Sky and Bright Stream's two kits' would be ok. unnamed kits wpould be fine if its just a single litter and easy to tell who they are. 18:03, November 14, 2015 (UTC)

Anymore opinions? 02:07, November 24, 2015 (UTC)

Snookthorn
Getting short and simple to the point. He never changed his name back to Snooky when he became a kittypet. His name should still be Snookthorn, and not Snooky. Should we change this? 09:30, November 15, 2015 (UTC)

He kinda did, considering he left the Clan. 20:54, November 15, 2015 (UTC)

Yes but there's no proof he didnt' change his name back. 20:55, November 15, 2015 (UTC)

I think we should rename the page as Snookthorn, and have his kittypet after name be Unknown or something like that 21:11, November 15, 2015 (UTC)

Winder's idea seems like a good one to me. I'd be in support of that. <span style="">04:23 Sat Nov 21

Not to nag, but has the decision for this been made? (I think his page should be renamed Snookthorn) 15:58, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Like what i meant above was like...Kittypet: Snooky, Unknown as his secondary name should not be known as we never hear anything else of him after 19:34, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Yep, I understood what you meant, and I agree that it sounds like the best idea :) I just brought it up because no one had commented on this for like a week, and I was wondering if people might have forgotten about it or something. 20:04, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Tutorial Page
I think we need a tutorial page, or at least something along those lines for new members. It's really annoying how many things and that are added to the page and that and a cite isn't added because the user just doesn't know how to add it. Their has been cases where the user has found a proper and official fact or family member but it's removed because they do not know how to make cites. It would be good to have a tutorial for other things too, like headers, how best to write an article, coding examples, etc. 06:06, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

I'm in complete support of this. It'd lead to a lot less frustration for new users and experienced ones alike. We'd end up with a lot of less arguments over what information is added and cited, how to format pages, etc..

I'd love to offer a hand with the coding side of pages (how to cite especially). Coding is right down my alley. <span style="">04:22 Sat Nov 21

Yep, a tutorial page sounds like a good idea. We have one for PB so might as well have one for PC. 05:09, November 25, 2015 (UTC)

Kittypet Blood?
In the trivia section of some of the character articles, they show the cats have kittypet blood. I'm not sure if this matters now since kittypet blood probably never exists; it all depends on what path the cat chooses. It appears to be an insult from Clan cats like Darkstripe or Tigerstar. And the daylight warriors are shown to live between the world of Twoleg and SkyClan. They don't really have kittypet blood or warrior blood. I believe "warrior blood", like Graystripe quoted in Into the Wild, refers to Clan blood, like for example, RiverClan blood or WindClan blood. What I'm trying to say here is that we've barely seen Clanborn cats become kittypets, only Pinestar. He made his choice to become a kittypet, it didn't have anything to do with his blood. Warriors born with "kittypet blood" are loyal to their Clans and never betray them or leave them. Should we perhaps get rid of the parts about the kittypet blood?

I don't think so, since being a kittypet is actually one of those controversial things in the series- if a character is noted to possibly be of kittypet decent (I think Leopardstar's trivia has something like that), then it's worth noting, especially in a series where being anything but full-Clan is frowned upon....and basically anyone who is half-Clan, whether it be another Clan or a loner, kittypet, or rogue, is actually considered lesser than their Clanmates in some instances... or, like, y'know, killed.

It's kinda a big thing for Clan cats, especially when it's never pointed out in the books it should be mentioned. 00:28, November 22, 2015 (UTC)

Two topics from Warrior's Refuge
1. It's never exactly confirmed that Splash, Moss and her kits, and Husker became kittypets. It is highly suggested that they became kittypets, but it never directly says it: the Twolegs are petting the barn cats and Graystripe thinks, "I'm pretty sure I know what I'm looking at here. I'm looking at the barn cats' future. And it's a good one." (this is also the cite on their pages for why they're kittypets)...

2. Husker and Moss's kits (Pad, Little Mew, Birdy, Raindrop) genders aren't ever mentioned. However, in all of the mangas (i think) the females have eye lashes and the males don't. In Warrior's Refuge, Birdy and Raindrop have eyelashes, while Pad and Little Mew don't. Can the genders be assumed?

04:19, November 26, 2015 (UTC)

For number 2: But we don't have the cites or anything about that, the narrator specifically saying their genders, and maybe the manga accidently didn't put in the eyelashes by accident. We don't have enough proof, but Maple, you're right. Maybe they are males and females, but I wish we had more proof to put that in :/ 21:09, November 26, 2015 (UTC)

Eyelashes are not indication of a gender. It doesn't matter what other cats are shown with- we do not use that as a valid citation, as at least one cat who was "shown with eyelashes" got a cite for being male. Also, Husker, Moss, and Splash were kittypets before becoming loners, so those cites would just need to be changed if it's deemed invalid. All three cats were living with Twolegs before the story began.

Okay, the second one makes sense, I strikethroughed it. For the first thing, I know that Husker, Splash, and Moss were all kittypets before being loners, but it says that their current affiliation is kittypet, their char arts are kittypet pictures, and because I guess the barn cats Splash and Moss aren't the only Splash and Moss in Warriors, they are named with the KP avreviation on the wiki. 23:13, November 26, 2015 (UTC)

Micah ~ Silver Nomination
Credits to whoever added the quotes. I'm actually happy with finishing his history. Comments?

can you like give a little bit of context as to why moth flight is running from the dog? it doesn't look right as it is. 18:31, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

it was me 19:30, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Updated

Is there any way you can go through his history and tweak some of the simpiler sentences? "The medicine cats fall asleep." is one of the ones I saw. This isn't a preschool book, and I've noticed a lot of newer articles are starting to turn out a bit....simple, for lack of a better word. I know it sounds a bit harsh, but this wiki should be as detailed and good as possible. I'll be going through other articles and commenting more later, as I'm on mobile... this is in no way, shape, or form about anyone who's written an article; we should just try and be as good as we can be.

Updated I tried.

The Moth
Would the green moth in Moth Flight's Vision get its own article? It holds a lot of significance to the book, actually. ~ Blossomstream The War Is Over 10:22, November 27, 2015 (UTC)

No. It shouldn't. 23:45, November 27, 2015 (UTC)

Care to say why? Like The Blazing Star (Herb), the moth is pretty much the symbol of Moth Flight's Vision. It's the thing that actually led Moth Flight to the moonstone. I'd say it holds enough importance to warrant an article. ~ Blossomstream Best Song Ever 01:25, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

We don't even know if it's real or just an omen sent to Mothflight (and Micah that one time). It might be enough for PW but I don't think it belongs to PC. 01:43, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

This does sounds like a PW discussion, not a PC one.

The Blazing Star is a herb and heals sickness. Maybe it should go in the Medicine section, but yes, that does sound like a PW discussion. 02:57, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Act Respectfully and Write Coherently
Personally, I think this is stupid to take time out of the day for this, however we have gotten to the point where it ought to be reminded.

You are all thirteen or older. Please act like it. You can put a period, comma, and/or question mark at the end of your sentences. You can use the shift button (it is there for a reason). I promise that the time you take pressing another button is not going to cause the apocalypse. I'm not asking for perfect academic writing with your gerund phrases perfect and your antecedent in proper relation to your pronouns, or no comma splices. I am asking that you at least have punctuation and god-forbid if you try capitalization in addition. I'm not even asking for that to be perfect, but you can at least try.

In addition to that, please respect your peers. No excuses.

Sorry to get all snarky and berating, but we still need to hold a standard to ourselves and to this wiki. Thanks friends! 22:36, November 27, 2015 (UTC)

These are super hard to make for me anyways :(

I&#39;ll help as long as animals rule our planet (talk) 17:03, November 28, 2015 (UTC)hulk4ever

Tumblekit
tumblekit is called a tabby tom once in dawn, vs two times in twilight as a black she-kit. in my onion it should be changed, considering it's what we did for thistlepaw. 19:19, November 29, 2015 (UTC)

I wondering if it's an assumption the she-cat is Tumblekit. In Dawn Dawnflower has two kits (Tumblekit is one), but in Twilight she magically has Minnowkit, Pebblekit and a black she-kit. I think we cannot assume this is Tumblekit. They could have been older kits and became apprentices when the Clans settled and Dawnflower had more kits or something. 05:07, November 30, 2015 (UTC)

Apple Blossom ~ Silver Nomination
I haven't done any nominations for PC before, but I think she works for nominating... She only appears a few times so there's not much for summary or quotes though. Comments? 23:50, November 29, 2015 (UTC)