Warriors Wiki talk:Characters

family relations, trivia, and ancestry
so about the family sections; some of them are REALLY long, and I came up with the idea of pruning the cousins to 2nd/possibly 3rd cousins at the most, since by that point they're barely related enough for it to matter. the same would apply for ancestry, like a cat with skyclan blood doesn't matter unless it's a fairly close relation/is important to their character, and could be removed from the trivia as well. maybe like grandparents and such at most? what does everyone think? 20:52, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

another idea is maybe changing up the cousins section slightly so it's first and second cousins as their own listing, so it's easier to differentiate and we won't have to worry about filtering other cousins out after that. 20:55, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

I honestly don't think we should remove any family members, and we have already been doing well in making it easier for pages to load (the /family pages, 'see more', etc) If the cousin area is getting too long for some characters, I agree it would be good to split it up more.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:09, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

the thing is even in warriors relations don't matter so much except for the immediate family, and we only hve this listed so it's somewhat easier to keep track of. if a cat is like a 7th cousin to someone, is anything really lost by removing them? they're a distant relation at that point and all it really does is serve to clog up the page, and if you can't tell what relation a cat is within a couple minutes, is there any point even then? it's not helping anyone. 21:15, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

I honestly don't think we need to list every cousin a cat has; not only does it get redundant in some cases, there comes a time where they actually start to not really be family. The third or fourth cousins really aren't considered family and in some cases, it's just messy. These lists are getting extremely cluttered and messy and hard to keep track of.

I would also like to suggest breaking down the family trees a little more as well and have them focusing on said cat instead of their ENTIRE line. For example, why should a cat like Lionblaze just use Windstar's tree when he can have a tree more focused on him and a bit smaller and easier to edit? A tree doesn't need to focus on an entire line and should focus on said character. ​

Concurring with Skye^^

Alright I'm starting to get what you mean. Just list up to 3rd/4th cousins? That makes sense.

So with the family trees thing, you're saying we should have (for big families), a family tree for every cat/litter, that only shows the family that is listed on their page? I can see that working. That would mean a lot more family pages templates to deal with but if we're okay with that, I could make it work.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  23:32, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

Oh gosh I'm having so much trouble with updating family trees yeah I think we need to put a cap on how many family members we place on family trees and on pages. I had a thought about it, and I think we can use where cats have acknowledged who is (and who isn't kin).

To make it short, Firestar is acknowledged to be Dovewing's kin, so we would include great-great-uncle/great grand-nieces. I think going just 1 above (their parents) is the furthest to go. Now Lionblaze and Tigerstar (the 1st one) are actually kin but it is not acknowledged in the books. Tigerstar is the kit of Lionblaze's great-great aunt, so I'd say show great-great aunt/uncles, but not their siblings.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  06:27, April 16, 2019 (UTC)

Honestly I'd say go to two greats (maybe three) unless it's mentioned that they are kin/significant to their destiny or whatever (coughcough the three coughcough). Same with cousins, only list up to second cousins. Anything else will probably clog up the section and confuse people. r ♥  ' ve always been" data-rte-attribs=" style title=will i ever be more than i've always been"&gt;waving through ' m tap, tap, tappin on the glass" data-rte-attribs=" style title=cuz i'm tap, tap, tappin on the glass"&gt;a window <23:34, 4/30/2019> ​

nudging for comments 17:34, May 15, 2019 (UTC)

Has been a fairly small discussion, but since it's sat for so long, what we do have is that most think we shouldn't list anything above three removed, unless it's prophecy related (for a bloodline). Any other comments?

so after testing on a cat with a detailed family, i think it might be best to stay at 2nd cousins, because it just strips out a lot of junk. that and after second, it's barely related tbh. 00:00, June 9, 2019 (UTC)

Any more comments? 01:27, June 20, 2019 (UTC)

Bramblestar
Major spoilers for Lost Stars

So in Lost Stars, Bramblestar dies. Obviously it would be counted as a loss of one of his nine lives. The thing is though, Bramblestar was dead for over a night, and Jayfeather even announced that Bramblestar was dead, and the elders were getting ready to bury him. Sparkpelt and Whitewing were actually urging Squirrelflight to take up the leadership position, and Squirrelflight basically became the de facto leader of ThunderClan.

Though afterwards, Bramblestar comes back to life, acting as if he simply just lost a life, and ignoring that he was actually dead. Reminder, Jayfeather was there the whole time, and Bramblestar had stopped breathing and his body was cold. Though one thing to note, is that when the other leaders press him about coming back to life, Bramblestar gets really defensive about it, and doesn't outright say he lost a single life at all.

So, did Bramblestar genuinely die? (mind you, the Clans had apparently lost their connection with StarClan), or did he lose a single life? Unsure how to even list it.

21:58, April 10, 2019 (UTC)

well honestly i think that he's a ghost right now. given the cliffhanger on rootpaw seeing his ghost in skyclan's territory, plus the fact the entire blurb for the silent thaw is about an apparition and bramblestar's strange behavior. i think its pretty obvious that bramblestar died completely, given their shutoff to starclan and the fact that the "one starclan cat" talking to shadowpaw obviously did not have good intentions, and rootpaw seeing a shadow behind bramblestar?? thats just my onion tho 01:02, 4/15/2019

I honestly think it's too early to confirm what's up with Bramblestar. There's not enough information to make a decision imo, since "Bramblestar" is still alive (at least the Clan's pov) and leading ThunderClan, and Rootpaw seeing something in the woods. I don't think we should make a decision at all since the characters themselves don't know what is going on...whether he did died or just lost a life. 02:41, April 15, 2019 (UTC)

Speaking of the blurb, it specifically says he lost one of his lives. So I think for now, we should have it as lost a life.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  03:35, April 16, 2019 (UTC)

Yep, Stealth has a point there. The Silent Thaw's blurb specifically says "After Bramblestar loses one of his nine lives", which practically confirms the mystery illness did indeed take this life from him. And he did die, the medicine cats dectected zero pulse from his heart, so he did die. If I remember correctly I think StarClan may have come to him but I can't remember. We should just list it. 21:55, April 18, 2019 (UTC)

We know he lost one life, so that's that. But he'd also get the |seconddeath= thing we have for Tigerheartstar just in the infobox, to reflect that he did die;; it was unconventional enough for that I'd think. The little visage of him could've been not real.

i personally think hes dead dead but it might be too earlly too tellWillowstep12 (talk) 12:36, April 23, 2019 (UTC)

what kind of cat has no scent -rootpawWillowstep12 (talk) 12:38, April 23, 2019 (UTC)

Any other comments?

Ok, I know this is unconventional per current rules, but per the recent blurb that got released, I now say we list him as having lost one life, as said, and with the |seconddeath=, and add a little ref note, and when the book inevitably comes out, he'll be listed as unknown.

Spoilers end

Family Trees
I was getting too focused on family trees on the other topic so I decided to move it here.

There's been talk of having smaller family trees that are more focused on individual cats rather than lines. This makes sense for cats like Sandgorse. He only has three family members, but has been given a very large tree. If we are happy to take on managing more trees, I can easily create new smaller trees from the already existing bigger trees.

For certain cats however, we need to think about who to include on their trees. Lionblaze for example has a humongous number of family members, and cats like Flashnose have quite a lot of descendants, so we need to decide which family members to add to their tree.

I've done a little experimenting, and have made a draft for a Lionblaze/Jayfeather/Hollyleaf tree. Basically, I've shown their immediately family, grandkits/grandnieces/nephews (as well as half-nieces), aunts/uncles, first cousins & their kits, grandparents, grand-aunts/uncles and great-grandparents. A little bit messy in this example as Firestar/Sandstorm have a lot of siblings, but it works.Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  04:24, April 20, 2019 (UTC)

I think this makes the most sense honestly, especially as the family trees have gotten more convoluted. I think adding the immediate family and those you listed would make sense. I like how on the draft you made you didn't include mates that didn't really matter, only direct descendants. It makes the family tree look more sleek and easier to follow imo. 05:08, June 14, 2019 (UTC)

The current family trees are definitely large, and I do think they could be chopped to be a more reasonable size. I like the draft you made; looks great! 01:20, June 20, 2019 (UTC)

PC Idea
So I had a little idea that I use on my own wiki for cats that haven't been seen since a certain book and its almost realistically impossible they're alive so I suggested we could something like saying Status unknown, last seen living (As of book name). I got a little feedback from Jayce on this and they suggested just doing Last seen as living (As of book title). Thoughts? <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; color:#000080; text-shadow:#737CA1 0.2em 0.1em 0.22em; font-size:90%"> Ellie <span style="font-family:comic sans ms; color:#25383C; text-shadow:#737CA1 0.2em 0.1em 0.19em; font-size:110%"> life is an illusion 18:40, May 24, 2019 (UTC)

Don't see why not, though we basically do the same thing since (as of now) we list it as "Alive as of Book name". Though it is pretty unrealistic for some characters to be alive as of Lost Stars.

02:56, May 26, 2019 (UTC)

That's not what I mean though (unless I'm not understand), this is for characters that never appeared again in TPB and before as after its still possible that they're alive but I think once they're omitted from the allegiances several times and never seen again. This would be a good idea. For cats like Brightflower (i think shes one), we dont know for sure if they died or are out they're somewhere so putting Last seen as living (As of BookName) would fit it better than stating alive <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; color:#000080; text-shadow:#737CA1 0.2em 0.1em 0.22em; font-size:90%"> Ellie <span style="font-family:comic sans ms; color:#25383C; text-shadow:#737CA1 0.2em 0.1em 0.19em; font-size:110%"> life is an illusion 22:55, May 30, 2019 (UTC)

It's not quite listing them as alive, Mink... Living (As of [book]) is honestly just a shorter version of what you suggested. I wouldn't mind changing the phrasing a bit, but it does actually mean what you're trying to suggest here.

I thought we were kinda already doing this with the Last known affiliations? And the statues in the family trees, though I get not every cat has those. And where would you put this on the page? Maybe if you have a sandbox or testing page where this idea was implemented, I could visualize it better. I just think we already have stuff that kinda already fulfills what you're suggesting imo. 04:59, June 14, 2019 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure we already do this normally, in the Status template...we just don't keep up with it and the thing gets outdated.

Any other comments?

Minor character Pages Rules
I am getting very confused on what's going on the minor character pages. I'm being told of new rules that have not been discussed or mentioned on the talk pages? I'm also being told contradicting statements on what these rules actually are.

So I think it's best we get together and discuss what all the rules of the MC pages are, now that we have been really working on them. I would really appreciate if we all give our opinion on this, cause right now it's just a few of us editing the pages.

These are the current rules listed on the talk page/s:
 * Only very minor characters with unspecified names are added to this page. If you think a character should have a page of their own, please bring it up on PC's talk page.
 * The Characters are to be named as close as to they are named in the books as possible.
 * A Character is to be put under the appropriate book. If the minor character appears or is mentioned in separate books, put them under the arc they appear in, the book they appear in the most or bring it up on PC's talk page.
 * Each character is allowed one quote using the main quote template, only if an appropriate quote can be found.

(Note: we'll have to edit the wording of the 3rd rule now they are on separate pages)

These are I guess 'ghost rules' that I've come across/been disputed that we should officially add to the rules (please let me know if I miss any or got it completely wrong!):


 * If it is obvious who the cat actually is, such as having the exact same description and position as a known character, they are considered that character.
 * Characters must have some sort of significance. This can be having kin, a speaking role, or performing an action. They cannot hang around in the background.
 * For manga cats, this means they are spoken about and not just make an appearance (I think is the general rule??)

Thanks for reading that wall of text! I would really appreciate if we can all discuss this. Right now it's becoming really difficult and frustration for me to edit the minor characters pages, because I have no idea what's allowed, what's not allowed and I'm kinda getting scared of being yelled at. I know I've already annoyed some people with some characters I've added I admit looking at them now it's was pretty stupid ><. I'm very sorry about that.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  01:24, June 10, 2019 (UTC)

I was always under the impression that if we can trace it to being a certain cat, though they're not named it can be leveled off as that character, usually based on their descriptions. I removed some characters from Night Whispers since at the time, it can be leveled down to one cat or between a few. 04:12, June 14, 2019 (UTC)

A good chunk of the characters seen on the minor characters pages can be narrowed down using logic to a cat that already exists. The original purpose of this page was for cats who didn't already exist, or that we cannot possibly pair them with a character that we already have a page for. Not being named shouldn't be a qualification for this, since sometimes we can actually chalk them up to being a certain cat using a description or scenes from other books. I also don't think the titles need to be as close to the phrasing in the book as possible- then we get redundant, and quite frankly, ridiculous section titles that make almost no sense.

Some of the cats' descriptions are a bit out-there too. We don't need to document that they have claws, sharp claws, round eyes, ect. They're cats. Unless they are a special circumstance character, such as Rose, we don't need to list everything that basically makes them a cat. There are quite a few entries on this page that I take issue with, because I feel it's really deviating from the intended purpose of the page.

guidelines and tutorial cleanup
Given PC's guidelines are official policy (somehow;; none of the others are so it's weird) this probably does need some sort of paper trail. Anyways, the guidelines, and both tutorials we have, need some major TLC because of all the things we've been changing. Basically just asking for permission to take a knife to it and add all the new stuff in, strip out the irrelevant old stuff, and also see if anyone else saw something they wanted changed in the meantime?

Feel free, I know you've bee itching to do it for a while. The only thing I would suggest, and this is something that's bothered me before I even joined the wiki, was why novellas were listed near the bottom of the "history" section and not underneath super editions. I'm glad we're reorganizing the history section to include super editions after the main arcs, but I always saw novellas as similar in function to super editions but much smaller. They provide an insight to the time period about a certain character and their conflict/resolution. I think it would be beneficial to users if they were placed underneath super editions as they serve a similar purpose. But beyond that, that's the only guideline change I have at the top of my head. 00:52, June 22, 2019 (UTC)

Sure, I have no problem about it :) I've been meaning to add a section for how to use the minor characters template. I worked on a lot of the official tutorial so let me know if you need any help!<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  08:46, June 24, 2019 (UTC)

Woodpaw ~ Silver Nomination
CBV? 19:02, June 29, 2019 (UTC)

Leafstar ~ Gold Nomination
I've been gently encouraged to start nominating some of the main pages I've been working on over the months. I've written the majority of the main page, though I know others have made minor changes since then. I wasn't sure if I needed to add anything for The Broken Code since Leafstar doesn't appear in Lost Stars that often, though I can always add a little bit if someone would like me to. :) Additionally, I went ahead and added some more quotes, finished the Shattered Sky and Hawkwing's Journey histories, and added the River of Fire, The Raging Storm, Tigerheart's Shadow and Lost Stars sections, too. Comments? 19:11, June 30, 2019 (UTC)

"gently" :3
 * I'm not sure the double cite (infobox) on Rogue is needed; it can probably go with just one, or be worked into a manual note.
 * Slip Miss Mama Cat into the top summary, since it was a cited name change
 * Links-wise, since the SEs got slapped below the arcs, I think some of those links in the detailed history could be put up higher, as some of them fit into AVoS
 * For TBC on the main page, probably a one-liner would be fine, just something to keep the CS template off it.