Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Welcoming New Users
You'll see the same thing on PB's talk page as well.

Okay, guys. I've been seeing this a lot recently. Some of you will edit the page when someone posts a join request, welcoming them to the project. Can we try and not do that anymore? It's not really worth the edit, if you ask me, since I usually archive join requests not long after I add them and show 'em the guidelines.

Again, can we stop with the spamming? If you want to welcome a new user or something....go talk to them on the chat...please. It's not really fitting for a project page when it's filled with "welcome!" and things like that.

Comments? 00:35, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

Okay Cloudy. Fair enough. I know I've been doing this a lot recently, and I apologise. 01:14, Sun, Feb, 12, 2012

It's fine, DJ. But if five users, not counting the SM who adds them in, posts something along the lines of "Welcome to PCA!" things might get a bit cluttered. And I'm not sure how many new users actually check their join requests to see if they've been added. I think we should go with Cloudy's method. Thoughts? 02:23, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

@Cloudskye yeah I thought we weren't supposed to anyway. 16:01, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

Well, no. We're not supposed to. I think this was brought up before, but people seem to have forgotten it. It happens. So much has gone on in this project since then, it doesn't surprise me. 18:52, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

I thought the thing that was brought up before was not to say, "Sure, a SM will add you in" if a Sm hasn't already added them in. 04:56, Mon, Feb, 13, 2012

I think it may have been just a general "don't spam the talk page with useless welcomes" and things like that. I find no point in actually editing the welcome message after the leads have already added them in. (Also, SM? *dies* xD) 04:59, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Well, this isn't a bad idea. But the thing is, i know of a user (not gonna say the name) that can't get on chat, and if she were to join a project, she couldn't go on there. So, it would also, even though it might count as spam, be good to give them a message on their talk page, that way they will know about it and you don't have to wait for them to come on chat to tell them. 19:28, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with that, as long as you're not just leaving a message that says "hai welcome to PCA" or something along those lines. If you're actually informing a new member about the rules/guidelines/something important, then by all means, go ahead and leave them a message on their talk page. As for those who can't get on the chat, there's nothing I can do about that. 19:34, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

So would this apply the same as users leave? 09:40, Wed, Feb, 15, 2012

No, I see no problem with saying goodbye to a user. It's just there's join requests posted nearly everyday, often multiple times, and users rarely check back on them. however, leaving sections aren't very often, and from what I've seen, they come and check back on them quite a bit. Nothing wrong with saying you'll miss the user or something along those lines in my opinion. 10:34, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Okay. How about when a user rejoins? I have a feeling that expecially if they're Warrior + then a lot of users would like to welcome them back, expecially if they actually are rejoining the wiki itself. 00:42, Sat, Feb, 18, 2012

New Tweaking Process!
The vote passed and now we have new guidelines. So go nominate an image!

A note for the SMs... any ideas on what we should do for an archive page? Where should we archive the approved projects? 02:54 Thu Feb 16

You beat me to it, Wild. I think we should make archives for the tweak nominations, like we do for approved and declined stuff.

I have asked our very own Wildy to be head of this operation, like Cloudy is for the mentoring program. 02:59, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the love <3 (and isn't Ivy the co-head?) Where should these archives be? Another forum? If so I'll go make it now. 03:44 Thu Feb 16

Just archives like the normal approved and declined ones will be fine I think. And I thought this was how we planned to do it before, but I guess I misunderstood, so could we have a new heading for each nomination? It'd make it a bit easier to sort through and such. Just a minor thing, everything else looks great :) 04:31, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

@Wild, yes Ivystripe is your co-head. She hadn't responded when I posted earlier. 05:17, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, what do you mean by the normal approved and declined archives, Paleh? For the headings, I'm tempted to agree (just for the ease of editing) but what should we put in the heading? I tried editing them all and adding links to the character's article's Character Pixels section, but it didn't look any more organized than it does now. Comments? 06:15 Thu Feb 16

Umm...here's a suggestion... Why not just put what we normally do? Try something along the lines of  Berrynose (A)~ Tweak/Redo Nomination , then link to the image, or images, below the heading. If it's multiple images, as is the case with Yellowfang, they'd just put the character's name instead of name and rank. It's something everyone knows how to do...well, if they're in this project, they should know HOW to do it..hopefully. xD 06:20, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Cloudy is smart.... Cloudy is wise.... Therefore, Cloudy is god. Let's do it. (So should I make a forum for the archives or) 06:25 Thu Feb 16

When I said like the normal archives, I meant like just a subpage for the archives. Like you'd do for your talk page archive or something. Just the page name, then /Approved Archive or something along those lines. And yeah, that sounds great cloudy. ^^ 06:33, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Can you even have subpages to Forums? *is n00b* 06:35 Thu Feb 16

All you'd have to do is make a page that's something along the lines of these: Forum:Tweak Nominations/Approved Nominations and Forum:Tweak Nominations/Declined Nominations. Of course, that's only an idea. You could easily split up the pages into approved tweaks, redos, ect. 06:37, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

I totally didn't realize it was a forum till just now.... XD I fail. But yeah, that'll work. :P 06:38, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

So... Approved Noms and Declined Noms, yes? Yes. 06:52 Thu Feb 16

Dear, those aren't subpages. Those are entirely new forums. Just click on the redlinks that I said up there^^ and you can use those. xDDDDDDDD It's easier to link as a subpage.. 06:54, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah but you can't make a subpage of a forum :P they don't work... they're just random articles with "forum" in the title. The forums will work for now :3 06:59 Thu Feb 16

No....it shows up as a subpage for me....I don't know what you're seeing, but I see all the signs of a subpage. xD 07:02, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Yup, they're subpages. XD 07:04, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea to me. I have a little question though, can anyone nominate an image for a tweak/redo? 18:34, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think it was specified in the vote, but I think they should be able to, yes. 18:42, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Why wouldn't any user be able to suggest a nomination? That would be unfair otherwise, since there are users who catch things us leads do not. (yes, I called us leads, now, get over it) 22:44, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah anyone could nominate a tweak/redo. I suggest thaty in the approved/declined archives, we have a redo/tweak section, so it's more organised, but that's just my opinion. And yes, I'm pretty sure you can make subpages to forums. 01:02, Sat, Feb, 18, 2012

Adding 'Comments' to Tweaks
Hey, I was just going through the new Tweak forum and I realised that it would be good to have a comments section for the nominations, we have them for SW nominations so why not tweaks? Comments? 22:33, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

Well, if you want to comment on a tweak, you can do it when you vote, actually. That's what quite a few of do. Wouldn't a comments section just be redundant? 22:35, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

All you need to do to comment is add this symbol instead of a vote symbol:

23:04, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

simple, a comments section isn't necessary. We only have a comments section on the membership nominations because we have a section for against and supporting. On the tweak nominations page we just use and  02:47, Sun, Feb, 19, 2012

Okay, I forgot about that. Also why is it only SW get to leave votes, if warriors can do tweaks shouldn't they get to vote? 18:13, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Any member can suggest a nomination, but it's the leads who vote. You'd have to ask Wild why it's only us who can vote, but, it probably has to do with the same reason only we can CBA and approve images.. . 18:14, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

But would any member be able to comment? 05:32, Mon, Feb, 20, 2012

Hmm.... I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head, but I'd say yes. Us leads can't do everything by ourselves. If you've got a genuine question as to why something is being nominated, by all means, comment! 06:01, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Non-pregnant queen lineart
Sorry, I should have uploaded this before. Here's the lineart for a permanent queen (just queens that choose to stay in the nursery permanently and aren't nursing or expecting, not just queens that have already had their kits and are still nursing/caring for them before they become apprentices).

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/warriors/images/archive/2/2f/20120219181938!Shellyheart.png

To make a short-haired version for Clovertail, just put this over the regular short-haired queen and re-line it.

Anyway, I hope someone takes on Ferncloud and Clovertail. They'll get done faster than is I'm taking care of all of them. 18:22, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

A Suggestion
Okay, so i have a suggestion to help speed up the approval process. There's this website called Join.me that allows people to see and interact the host's screen. If we use this website to see another screen while making a charart, we could give them comment before they put the image for approval, and even show them how to do different things. I definitly think this would help speed up the aproval process, and it could also be good for mentors to teach/help their apprentices. ☾ ~Pouncey~ ☽ 23:15, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

That's not half bad of an idea, Fallow. Is the website free, and does it require any downloading? 23:17, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it's free, but you do have to download it. It's nothing major. ☾ ~Pouncey~ ☽ 23:20, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea. I know I'd download it, since this is my computer, but I don't know if anyone else would. 01:23, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm using it now, and I didn't have to download much. Just a simple .exe file that doesn't change anything. It's kinda like Team Viewer (as Splook, Rainwhisper and Icebrain would know about), with the exception it doesn't crap out after a few minutes. xD 01:25, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know I think its best to leave out as much downloading and off-wiki websites as possible, some people are very... internet challenged XD. Just what I think. 01:32, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I just made Clovertai's queen with about 8 people watching, and it worked magically. They gave critiques while I was actually doing the image. I love it. 02:19, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I love it too. When I made Snake's loner image Fallow even helped me with the collar. You can share control with other users on so they can help you out. I use it <3 02:30, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

It's a very useful program, I use it when I work on other drawings. I can vouch for it. :3 02:37, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I like this idea. It wouldn't be compulsory, opinional right? It's a great site, thanks Fallow! <span style="">05:37, Mon, Feb, 20, 2012

DJ, if you don't want to use the site, you don't have to. No one can force you to do anything here. =P 05:59, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Is there a way to create a PCA... I want to say station? It confuses me alot :( 15:57, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Also how do others look at your screen? 16:01, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Hey guys, I'd totally use this, but I'm totally confused and have no idea what to do... xD Would someone help me out? 16:12, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, so basically, one person makes a "meeting" (that's what join.me calls it) and they give someone else their code, and whoever goes on it can see the host's screen. For pca purposes, someone who's making a charart and would like some opinions on it would give other members of pca their 9 digit code and they could come on and give critiques as they made the charart. We did that with Oblivion while she was making her charart, and I did it with Mooneh yesterday.

We could make a pca station, but that would require someone's email address, and only one user could do it at a time. I think it would just be easier to let each user make their own station then to share one as a project.

I'm not quite such how they see your screen xD You just go on join.me, type in their code, and their computer screen it there on your window. If we do make this part of pca, I think we would need some rules to protect the host's privacy (example: no going on Facebook while on join.me)

What I was thinking for the mentoring program, the apprentice would host a meeting on join.me, and give their mentor the code to help then with things.

Adding to that, the host can give a user who is in the meeting control of their screen. I think this could be helpful for mentors and apprentices, as the apprentice would give their mentor control to show them how to blur or smudge or something along those lines.

So that's a basic run through of what I was thinking and how join.me works xD ☾ <span style="color:lightblue;font-family:Freestyle Script;background:black;border:2px dotted; -moz-border-raiuds: 3em 3em 15em; color:white;">~Pouncey~  ☽  21:36, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I've used join.me before, and I will say, it's quite helpful. It's a great way if mentoring your PCA apprentice, or getting critique on a charart before posting. I'd use this for sure. ;) 00:49, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks so much, Fallow! :D 05:11, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

Approval page
Alright, seeing as we've redone almost every loner charart, could we bring the approval page back down to 35 images at a time? <span style="">05:56, Mon, Feb, 20, 2012

I don't see why not. Unless we're re-doing another set of blanks soon, I think it's a good idea. 05:59, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. The PCA page isn't full anymore. 06:00, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. 14:41, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Though I'm not against this idea, I like the larger limit on the page. It makes the project drop a bit of stress since users wouldn't be in a huge hurry to get their chararts on the page and are fighting for space. Idk. That's just my opinion. 14:47, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Scarletwind, but 50 is a little extreme, maybe 40-45 would be a good compromise? 15:53, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Agreeing Scarlet and Wild. I think 40 sounds good. 16:11, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

40's a good even number. There isn't that many normally on the page anymore anyways. 20:27, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

40's a good number too. It almost guarantees you'll get a spot to post your charart.

Agreeing, just enough spaces for everyone, in my opinion. 22:38, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

If we're all in agreement, I'll go change the limit 03:49, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

Tweak Rogue Blanks
Okay this has been brought up a few times but I think we need to fix the rogue blanks, we redid the apprentice blanks for their ears, well the rogue blank ears are huge, I'm not saying we need to completely redo them just tweak them. Also the tails are very short and unnatural, and some of the rogue blanks are different sizes. There are 66 rogues, and we've already put up all the loners so we could start on these. Comments? 16:33, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

The ears may have to be tweaked but I think they are ok. I think the main issue with the rogues is the whiskers. I don't really notice the size differences. 16:46, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you guys both. The rogue blanks have always bugged me >.< 17:08, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, and I think the legs would be less stick-like, too. At least they don't look like dogs, though, so I don't think a total overhaul would be necessary. 17:14, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Finally! Those have always been my least favorite blanks. xD I personally would be fine with a redo. 17:46, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Nuu for that love of Stripes XD I think they would be to fix than to redo. 17:48, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I think a redo would be good. Since I already have Tangle reserved, can I just keep him as reserved until the blanks are fixed/redone? 19:03, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

It depends on if we go through with this, Silver.

Since we have mxed opinions on tweaking vs redoing the blanks, why not hold another vote? This time people can either submit blanks to tweak or to redo, and of course we'd have a choice where people can opt to not change the blanks at all. Sound good? 19:31, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. 19:33, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good, if we redid them I vote for the same pose. 20:25, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, but I don't think they should be redone. I am highly against it, actually. Just a few minor things. 00:01, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

We could still have a vote. If people don't want them to be redone, they won't be redone. 00:13, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should have two, one if we should leave them, tweak them or redo them. And a second (if we vote to tweak/redo them) with the choices of blanks. 00:54, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

Well yeah, I think we should vote.. 00:59, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, shall we post a page for members to post their blanks for the consideration of PCA? We'll devide it into two sections, one for tweaks, one for redos, and we'll have the current blank on top for those that don't want it to change at all. And we can give members a week or two to post their blanks before the vote starts. I'd be willing to host it on a subpage from my userpage. 01:01, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

Do you want to? Also we could open it March 10th and leave it up for 2 weeks. 01:09, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

As soon as another senior member agrees, I'll do it. I think closing submissions on March 10th is a bit too much, though. A week should be enough to throw together a rough lineart. 01:13, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good! 01:17, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

I decided to start a forum instead. :3 01:29, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

Kittypet Images for Sagepaw and Mintfur
Hiya guys! Another user and I pointed saw that Mintfur (SC) and Sagepaw have kittypet names, but no charart. Should they get one? 01:26, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

They shouldn't have kittypet names. They were kits at the time. 01:31, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

No, no, they should have kittypet names, just like Scourge had a kittypet name but a kit image. Just because they were kits doesn't stop them from being kittypets. Besides, to non-Clan cats, kit is just an age, not a rank. 01:34, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

Join~ Chickadee1999
I would really like to join the project. I have been around the wiki for only a little bit, but I'm really good at making chararts. I would like to be a member so I can tweak bad images (Redstar, anyone?). I can use Photoshop and am willing to work often. Thanks! Chickadee1999 22:25, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

Great! I'll add you in. Just make sure you take a look at our guidelines and if you ever need help, you can look for a mentor or take a look at our tutorials. 15:21, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

Join ~ Birdpaw
Oh wow, I haven't been here in like, forever, even though I still know the guidelines and rules off by heart (Not really, I just remember it XD) So can I join again :3? A star, a star, <sup style="font-family:Arial Bold;color:#8B0A50"> dancing in the sky...  01:27, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

Join ~ Wavefrost
== I was wondering why I'm not on the project anymore. If possible, I'd like to rejoin although could you please leave a message on my talk to tell me why. ' ' Rivers rock ' ' 12:14, February 23, 2012 (UTC) ==

Ashfoot's queen image
Ashfoot's queen image looks lighter than the other character pixels for her. I'm sorry to bring this up if this issue has been adressed already, but I saw it and thought I should bring it up... Happy Clover Day  ♣  02:54, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

Once her deputy is done, I'm going to be taking care of the queen image. If you'd have bothered to check the nominations page...you'd see that it's set up to be redone. 02:56, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

Reserving Tweaks
Just a reminder to everyone that you should wait until the tweak nomination is archived before reserving an image. Even if - and this is directed at leads - you're the third vote, you shouldn't vote and then archive immediately. I think we should have a rule that the lead who was the third vote must wait until another lead comes and archives it before reserving. In addition, do we have some sort of rule on "I nominated it, I get the image"? If so, we definitely should. If someone nominates an image for a tweak, it isn't fair that someone else comes along and reserves it after it's archived. 03:11, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. It's kinda like CBAing and image, you shouldn't CBA your one right away. It's rude when someone reserves the image, when it wasn't approved to be tweaked/redone. Someone may even disagree with the nomination. Again, like CBAing, if your image isn't approved yet, then you can't reserve another image. 03:16, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

Right. Also, about the "user who nominates is the user who tweaks" rule, perhaps. With limitation of course, like user x can't nominated 7 tweaks and have claim to all of them. Maybe 1 out of every 3 tweaks a user makes, they have claim to? 03:18, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

Now, how would that work with a user who wants to re-do an entire set? Like what I did with Littlecloud. I adore him, and his images have always bugged me. Plus, I really need the practice with tabbies....but...I know we did have for a while there that if you changed the style, you'd have to do the other images as well. 03:22, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

Eh heh heh heh whoops Sorry *headdesk* Guess I'm sorta new to this x.x I guess that would be ok. How about when the person puts there redo up, they mention the hex codes, opacity, etc. in case someone wants to redo that characters other images maybe. I think that would go with Scarlet's idea, I don't really know. 05:07, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

I honestly think that once it gets three votes we should be allowed to reserve it. Like I nominated Heavystep Friday and it was just now archived today? That's too long. Now, I see that there should be a small window for additional voting, but after 12-24 hours I think it's done being nominated. Breeze whisker  05:12, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

I agree about the whole "You nominated it, you get it" thing, but I think the user should still have a choice. Like, say I nominated Tigerheart's kit image to be redone, but didn't actually want to do it, you could just say you don't wanna do it, and that anyone can take it. Also, they should only be able to claim 2 images, regardless of how many they have nominated at the time, as that's all they can reserve. They should still be able to nominate as many as they want though. Otherwise it will just slow things down. And personally, I don't see why we should have to wait till the nomination is archived. If it gets three votes, I think we should be allowed to post it. Like Breeze said, some nominations sit a while before being archived (even though they shouldn't... *cough*) and it doesn't seem right to make a user wait that long because the SMs are taking a long time to get around to doing that. 17:04, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Paleclaw, for example (not being mean here just saying) someone took Stoneteller (NP) and I kind of wanted to do him. And I think if you nominated it you should get it (if you want it) because since we are in different timezones some of us aren't on the time they are archived so it is only fair that they nominators get the image they nominated, if they don't want it they can put it in the comments. 22:43, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Paleh too. If you nominated it, it's only fair that you get to do it, unless you don't want to. And we should be able to post it even though it's not archived, if it's got 3 votes, they've obviously decided that it's going to be approved or declined already. I think it should be 12-24 hours until it's archived though, but's that's my opinion. <span style="">06:45, 23, 02, 2012

Join?
Hello I would like to join the Project I have already looked at guidelines and such. 11:22, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

Awesome, there's always the tutorials and mentors in case you need help. Welcome to the project. 02:42, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

Re-Join
Hey guys, guess who? Actually, don't guess. ;) It's me! Thistly! I'm back to re-join, so I can start making chararts again. Wow things have sure changed here. o.o . 04:35, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

Thistly!!! I'll add ya in right now. Welcome back 8D Look over the new tweaking guidenlines 'cause they've changed alot. 04:37, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

Ice's alt. tweak
Shouldn't Ice's alternate loner and rogue images have an underbite like in the manga? Just curious. 17:47, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

Tigerstar Warrior Alt
I think Tigerstar would get a black warrior alt for being described with a black muzzle in Into the Wild, since Redwillow was described with a tawny head and he got a tawny alt. Is this correct? 05:36, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's too minor for complete alt. Redwillow's case was different. <span style="">23:09, 24, 02, 2012

No, I don't think it was different. It's the same basic concept. I'd say he'd get one personally. 02:57, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

We already tried adding it to his images, but we removed them. I say give him an alt and leave it at that. This is the same as Redwillow, the only difference being where the pelt color was stated. 02:58, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

Sasha?
I was being me, and re-reading some of the books, and Sasha was described as "a lot like Mothwing to look at". It was on page 87. ^.^ Anyway, I was wondering if this would qualify for an alt, or, it meant she looked like her in structure. :3 06:14, February 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, right, it was in Moonrise. ^^ 06:15, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

I dunno, "looks like" is kinda ambiguous. We can't assume what it meant. Stuff like Cinderheart, who was described as looking exactly like Cinderpelt, is more obvious than "looks a lot like." 06:19, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, it could mean that they have the same figure/shape rather than Sasha having a golden pelt. If we knew what they were referring to, then we'd have more to go by. 06:28, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

Would this count?
Would Skywatcher get an apprentice pixil? Pricklenose is listed as his mentor and he was taught SkyClan ways. I honestly think that should count for something, as he was taught how to hunt and ect. I will understand if you guys disagree but I thought I'd ask before it getting posted and then potentially declined. 22:53, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

I think he should. We've got apprentice chararts for cats that have been said like that before, so I agree. <span style="">23:12, 24, 02, 2012

Yes, I believe he would qualify for one. ^^  00:21, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

I see no reason why not. Take Millie as an example. She's listed as Graystripe's unofficial apprentice. That doesn't stop her from being and apprentice, even if she wasn't quite aware of it. 03:48, February 25, 2012 (UTC)