Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

On Alts
I think we need to be a bit clearer on what constitutes an alt and what doesn't. That's just me, however.

On a similar note, I'm wondering how it is that we decide what is a mistake in descriptions and what isn't. My confusion came from comparing Willowshine's description against Redwillow's. For Redwillow we did not take into account the likelyhood that being described with a tawny head, most likely meaning he was entirely tawny, was a mistake. For Willowshine, it's entirely possible that she is either a dark or light gray tabby, but we have plain alts for both dark and light gray.

I know this may seem silly, I just want some clarification as to how this wiki goes about deciding what's a mistake and what isn't. 23:34, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

I think I see what you mean, about Redwillow. You're right, it wouldn't seem like he'd have a tawny head out of nowhere. He'd probably get an alt for being plain tawny. 00:54, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

AH, thank you, Shellheart. I was thinking the same thing not too long ago. I always thought that Redwillow should've had a tawny alt, and that Willowshine should've had a specific shade from the beginning. Maybe take into account how many times she's been called light vs dark and use the one that's been used the most. Then she can have an alt for the opposite shade. 01:24 Sun Oct 30

That sounds like the most logical thing, Wildheart. I've always felt that cats should have descriptions based on what they are called most. I could go into the Dovewing's eyes debate here, but I choose not to. 01:39, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Dovewing... Yeah, let's not start that. xD But yeah, I agree with you. I've always found the Willowshine thing confusing myself... 01:41, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

So what is to be done about this? 03:19, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Well, Iceheart and the others haven't commented yet, and I'd like to hear their opinions on it as well before anything's enforced. 03:22, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Oops I forgot to add my two cents. This bugged me as well, because, say, we have a cat described as brown, but at one point he is referred as flecked. To me, it would seem to be a part of the normal description but they just forgot it, but too, we don't know what their intentions were with the cat in mind (especially minor characters)  03:26, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I say that in the end, we should always add into descriptions what would be most genetically possible. This is the decision we made with ginger stripes, is it not? So a ginger tom with a tawny head? Most likely not possible. Just because the Erins don't pay attention to genetics doesn't mean we can't. And when it comes to specific shades of a basic color like with Willowshine, we should go with whichever one came first and make an alt for the other one. So Willowshine would be a dark gray tabby, not just gray. 06:37, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Ooh, I like that. Let's go with what Shellheart said. XD 06:58 Mon Oct 31

Although, if a character was described first as a dark gray tabby (just an example), and then for the rest of the books, was described as a light gray tabby, we would probably go with the light gray tabby description. I don't know how to put that into a guideline, though... 07:00 Mon Oct 31

I'd like to get the opinion of one more lead and either Iceheart or Scareltwind before anything is done. 12:45, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

IM a science nerd so i love the idea of sticking to the genetic rules. I think this could work. 01:57, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I mean only when it comes to alts that can be questioned. We can't stick 100% to genetic laws, as the Erins do not and as there are genetic anomalies in the word. I have, in fact, seen a white cat with black paws and ears. 02:13, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Kay, so what's the final decision before this thing gets archived? 15:48, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

I think that Redwillow should get a whole new alternate for being described with a tawny head, and for Willowshine, I think it was said which ever one it was described as first would be the original color, or the one that was described as the most. 02:02, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Questions
I have a few questions regarding charart alts. First, would Minnowpaw get an alt. for being described with dappled fur? Would Pouncepaw get an alt for being described with a short tabby tail? Would Redstar get an alt. for being bracken-colored? Would Leopardfoot get an alt. for being described as mottled? Would Sweetpaw get an alt. for being described as a mottled tabby?

I realize that we may have had discussions about some of these questions, but I wasn't paying attention, so would someone kindly explain to me why they would or would not get an alt.? Thanks a lot! 23:44, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I guess some of these would get alts and some not. 23:51, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I know that. I want to know which ones get alts and which ones don't. 23:57, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Minnowtail I'm not sure about, probably, but then again you only need to add darker spots persay. Pouncepaw probably would be if the lineart is an alteration. Redstar, probably would get an alt because bracken-colored is different than ginger (i.e. Mosspelt). Leoparfoot and Sweetpaw are the same as Minnowpaw. That's what I've gotten out of the few...discussions/questions I've seen. :P 02:20, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

I was wondering if Leopardfoot did, cause I wanna do hers :P 14:24, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Would Pouncepaw then be a tweak or a normal charart? I think Leopardfoot should get one since solid black and mottled are different. 23:54, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe Pouncepaw might just have that description be added to his overall description, so his charart should be tweaked. Redstar I think should get one, since if we go by Mosspelt's alternate the color is much different than Redstar's charart. About Sweetpaw and Leopardfoot, they would probably get alts. I remember there was once a Sweetpaw alternate up but it was declined because we didn't have the default brown rule yet, so that's what her alt. would be. 02:06, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Since Pouncepaw was an apprentice, and his tail was still growing, he probably wouldn't get an alt for a short tabby tail as he's already tabby. 05:46 Thu Nov 10

I think they all should get alts. 02:07, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Something Fun!
I was talking with a few other users in the chat room and had an idea that seemed to get some positive feedback. So, I thought I'd propose it here.

How about a friendly charart contest? Everyone could customize the best/most creative charart they can think of and upload it (on their personal image file, of course) to see who can make the best. I can't think of anything that could be used as a prize except recognition of excellence/awesomeness from the project.

Does anyone else think this would be a good idea? It could be fun. If anyone can think of a way to improve the contest, maybe by proposing a theme we all have to stick to, that'd be great. 03:51, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

That'd be super fun! Even though I'd epically fail! Lovely idea. I'm in. 04:10, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm definitely in, and I have some ideas. Maybe we could have two rounds: one for apprentices and one for warriors and leads, because I don't think it would be fair to have a new apprentice competing against the leads (who are all amazing at chararts). Also, for a theme we could use Christmas. I know it's still a month away, but there's already tons of adverts in shops and there's lots of room for the imagination to go wild, so I think it would be good. 09:02, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I think this would be awesome! I do agree with Specklestream, there should be two rounds. Leopard claw  Look up  to the past…  09:12, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, I love this idea!!! Leaf-storm,11:40,November 5,2011 (UTC)

Yes! 11:50, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

But what would we do about the inactive apprentices? Just remove them? 12:01, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

We could have everybody who wants to do it sign up. Then we would know the numbers and we wouldn't have to worry about inactive apprentices. 12:25, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm in for sure! 12:49, November 5, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Interesting idea, and it wouldn't be taking up space, since the users participating would be uploading over their personal image file. ;) Christmas sounds like a good idea too. Hmm.... Hopefully this doesn't cause clutter... 13:33, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Great idea! I like the idea about the two rounds thing. ;) M is    t y pe bb le   ♪Goo d day♪ just go with |undefined the flow   14:22, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not good at Christmas stuff. :'( But oh well. If you guys wanna do it, I'm in for it. And yeah, two rounds is good. 14:25, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I think we'd be better off with a more PC theme that everyone could get in on.... hmm, how about just seasons? We could have a two-tiered contest with four categories at first (Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter) and we pick the best from each category to go on to the final round in which they will have to make another charart to fit a new category? I agree with the separation of apprentices from warriors and leads, so we'll be having two separate contests with two winners in the end. I won't be entering, as I intend to be one of the judges. I'm so glad everyone likes this idea! As soon as we get the go ahead from either Scarletwind or Iceheart, the contest will be on, so don't start uploading chararts on your personal images for the contest in the meantime. Until then, though, if you want to enter just leave me a message on my talk page that includes your rank in the project. 14:41, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

This is a great idea! And how about instead of doing it on here, why don't one of the leads create a subpage (under their name of course) where we can have the images displayed? If we do that, I'd be happy to host it :) 15:02, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

That's an awesome idea! Thanks, Oblivion. 15:05, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Yay, seasons! :) Tell us when the subpage is created. So where would a signup thing be? If we make a thing for the signup we should have sections for each season for people to sign up on. 16:07, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Love this idea. Warning you now, mine isn't gonna be very good! 16:24, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Just go sign up here! ^^ 16:26, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Great idea, Shellheart <3 This sounds like fun. (just a note to the leads - don't archive this discussion as I have it linked on the mainpage's news) 20:21 Sat Nov 5

Are we allowed to put things in the background on our image? Sky- VoldemortxMcGonagall  ftw! 00:18, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Yes. 00:31, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

I swear you're an idea stealer! I told Cloudy I thought a charat competition would be cool! DX Naw it's alright, you know I like to tease! I'm glad to see that a lot of people are entering. I already have a good idea, but can you put multiple cats in it? 05:07, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

When does the first round start? -- 13:39, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

I'm so in. Lemme know when it starts! ~Regifloat222 Riverstar, Leader of the Thunder Snipes! 17:23, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

'''The first round is on! Go here to make your submission!'''

Am I still allowed to sign up? I missed the conversation. 09:30, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Of course you're allowed to sign up. 20:13, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, yay! I love this idea. 04:49, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Okay Im seeing alot of people uploading on seprate files. Unless I misread it or somethin', your supposed to upload it over personal image, right? - 01:22, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Yep, you're supposed to upload it over your personal image. 05:59, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Chararts, Getting Too Good?!
I'm not exactly sure why i'm saying this but just hear me out. Well i'm beginning to feel like the images are getting too good. I mean theres all these new people and I feel we can't keep up with all the senior warriors and warriors now, I feel they're getting too good to keep up with... 16:18, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

We're good because we practice a ton, and most of us have been here for quite a while. Each artist has a different skill level, and you shouldn't compare yourself to anyone else. There's nothing wrong with chararts being "too good", because to be honest, if they looked bad, then PCA wouldn't be doing their job. >.>;;; 16:24, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but you'll just have to keep practicing. We can't make our art worse so the apprentices can keep up more easily. I 18:32, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Just keep practicing, and you'll get to the same skill level as the more experienced users. It takes lots of dedication, hard work, and effort. Just ask any of them. 20:34, November 9, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

Don't worry. Sometimes I feel like this to, like how I'll never be as 'good' as them. But we don't always go at the same pace, and we have to remember that. M is   t y pe bb le   ♪Goo d day♪ just go with |undefined the flow   21:08, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

How can chararts be too good? We do them, to make them please you guys to fit the character. Like Cloudskye said, each artist has a different level and we practice ''all the time. ''If you're new, it's obvious you won't be as good as the senior warriors and older warriors. And in what matter can't you "keep up?" All you're supposed to do it comment. The artist has to keep up with their work. You can't be too good to keep up with, every user is just the same. 21:24, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

I have a point and slight reason to disagree with what Cloudskye said and Splashpelt repeated; I haven't practiced almost at all, some people are just good with art as it is. I'm not saying my chararts are amazing and everything, because i know they're not, but i'm going by what others say. And overall, all i'm saying is some people might not need to practice as much others, but I do have to agree that we should not have the feeling like we need to compare to others. We are all amazing at chararts, needless to belive we should compare them. :) . 22:41, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Thistle. This project is to create and improve charart, not to compare our skills to others. 23:11, November 9, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

If it's any consolation, look into the history of this image: and tell me that practice hasn't made me better? It took me, I think, four months to get approved, but now it gets done in a matter of mere days. Just try doing different cats, pelt types, blanks, look at the various art tools at your disposal. Yes, not everyone needs practice, but some do. I believe that with a little hard work, everyone's art can be as phenomenal as the leads'. 23:41, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Ivy, you're not the only one. File:Oakheart.warrior.alt.png was my third image, and it took me quite a few months as well to complete it. Now look at me. Geting images approved in a matter of days. It takes tons of practice. Yes, some are blessed with talent, but for those who aren't, practice is the only thing you can do. Look at tutorials, ask how the others make their images. But, don't complain about it. >.> 23:46, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

What would be the point of having Senior Warriors and Warriors if they weren't more experienced, and therefore better at chararts than the apprentices? We should all just be called warriors if there weren't different levels of skill. We've all been apprentices at some point, and all know how it feels to see, say, the leader's chararts, then see yours. It can be discouraging, but all the warriors and leads have gotten where they are by practicing. It's not like any of us got good over night. I think most of us have had those chararts that have taken a couple months to be approved to. :P So, as everybody's already said, just keep practicing, and don't compare your chararts with other's. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  01:07, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Ivy and Cloudy. My first charart (Rainflower) took like three months to get approved! Just keep on practicing! You know the saying: "Practice makes perfect". Always works. Just keep on practicing. Then you'll regret posting this. xD 01:32, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

It's okay, Loud! Ok, Ivy and Cloudy aren't the only ones either look at the first upload of File:Skyheart.warrior.png! I practice chararts almost every day, and I promise you it helps you a lot. Just read the tutorials, and listen to what they say. Soon enough, you'll great skills. :) 03:27, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

I know how you feel, honestly. When I first joined, I envied all the lead's art as well as some of my fellow apprentices' *coughcough*Iceheart*coughcough*Wildheart*coughcough* I know it's sometimes hard not to compare yourself to others, but I don't think you're being quite fair to yourself. You're a newer user and don't have as much experience as the rest of us. You'll get better with practice, tutorials, and finding your own style. I felt just the same with Night Shine, but take the time to look at their styles, tutorials, see what works for them and then make your own style with mixes from others or something that's totally your own. Maybe tabbies aren't your strong point, that's fine. Everyone has their own specialty. For me, I think it's ginger and white cats, Iceheart, torties, you get the picture. I can offer you three bits of advice: I hope this helps, Loudsplash. - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 23:18, November 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Stay true to yourself and give yourself a reality check. Some of us have been here longer and we have more experience and practice.
 * 2) Practice with different styles, different blanks, different ideas. You'll get there
 * 3) Don't be afraid to ask older users for advice, but not to fix your mistakes for you. That's something you have to learn yourself.

How can chararts be too good? 02:18, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

No offence but this is something stupid. How can chararts get too good, they never get perfect, to me, perfect doesn't exist. Chararts can only keep getting better and better but never pefect in my eyes. 19:38, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Hiatus
I was hopoing it wouldn't come to this, but for the rest of the month I will be taking a long hiatus. Reasons I will not give. Anyone who wants to take over Wind (Q) is more than welcome to. I'll be back December 1st! 00:13, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, we'll miss you :( Do you mind if I do Wind? 00:15, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Of course Oblivion. ^^ 00:16, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! See you December first, and I hope everything's okay :) 00:19, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

I hope everything's okay also, see you until then, buddy! ^_^ 03:23, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Aw, bai Silvereye! We'll all miss you, see you in December! (Perry is gonna glomp you) xD 12:33, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Bye Silvereye for now! 05:28, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Shading Placement
I understand that this might not concern some people, but I've seen several charart tutorials and most of them have a section on shading placement. It kind of bothers me that there are different images on the shading placement, that have different places where the shading is put. I understand all the light source thing, but I think it would be less confusing if we narrow the different images of shading placement down to one, shown on all the different tutorials. That way, if we all follow the one shading placement image, when it's gone up for approval there hopefully houldn't be any comments on "Move the shading on the midriff closer to the middle" or whatever it is? Ideas? 06:27, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

We don't HAVE to use what's on the guidelines.... I don't. In fact, I've never used the shading redlines or anything of the sort. Each artist has their own style, and the guidelines are there for the basic placement. Actually, I don't use a light source, either. xD 06:29, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

But to avoid comments like center the shading on the face more, wouldn't it be good if we just kept one of the guiding images? I'm not saying that we have to use it, just so the artists can get a pretty good idea of where the shading should go. Also is there a highlight placement image? I've never come across one. 06:49, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

The only shading tutorial I've ever even looked at is the one on Nightshine's tutorial, which is here. As for a highlight one, I wouldn't know, because I don't use those either. 06:59, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

EDIT: Found one for you. Look here, on Ivystripe's awesome tutorial. XD 07:03, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Nvm^^. I read it wrong. 07:04, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

We can't tell people how to set up shading. What would the point of that be? We chan suggest that they make their shading more logical looking, but as long as it fulfills its purpose (making the image look more three dimensional by showing the contours of the body) there's no reason a member can't put the shading where they please. 12:44, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

I understand that's fair enough. But for example, what if someone isn'y sure about a light source, or what it should look like. I'm not talking about anyone in specific here, but most people know what a light source is. I've seen some comments on other's chararts, saying move the highlights/shading there. I also realised this happens mainly for hightlights, and I think in tutorials we need to be more specific abotu about where hightlights should go. 05:25, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Redoing Images?
Okay, FEEL FREE to COMPLETELY disagree with me. But anyways, I'm starting not to like the rule, when someone redos an image, they have to do the rest of the character's images. I know it's a fine idea and all, but people sometimes don't follow that rule, and the images turns out fine. People actually don't follow that rule quite often. Besides, without the rule, it would give more warriors a chance to tweak an image. Bottom line, I'm not so happy with this rule, and there are so many rules in PCA. 01:13, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. I might not be a warrior but when I am one, that is one rule we can do with out. I just want to tweak charart's so i know how to do those certain types of cats, like white's or tabbies or torties, and others. I don't want to have to follow taht because that limits the amout of charart's you can tweak and i find it unfair. Rain face &lt;3 01:16, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

To me, if you can copy the other artist's stripes or markings, you're fine. The user who has done the first image shouldn't have the act to focus on everything else. If you can copy, then do it, in my opinion. 01:24, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

How about asking permission from the person first before redoing an image that they were supposed to? (kinda like redoing an image & asking a lead) That way people wont bring the rule up when this occurs - 01:27, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I did that with Wildheart. I don't like this rule either, and we aren't exactly following it at the moment. Since it was created, we've violated it at least 10 times. 01:40, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I still like the idea, but maybe not make it so much a rule but more a basic good idea. So maybe, say that it's a good idea but not an actual rule. Other users would be given the chance to do characters that have been started by other users. i.e. Say I did Firestar's leader again but Stoneclaw decided to try his warrior. That'd be fine, but if the charart becomes to difficult, the other artist could be asked to do it since it only takes about 2-5 days to get approved. Thoughts? - Scarletwind  ✧ L i s a n n a ✧ 01:47, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I can see what you guys mean, but, this is in place too to prevent a person from redoing an image then not doing the rest. Take me doing Goldenflower for example. I did a very complicated tabby pattern for her. Now, if I had just left it, maybe somebody else might do her queen. But they get frustrated because 1) they don't have her base colors and/or 2) It's too complicated for them to perfect. Also, I would have been kind of frustrated with someone doing one of her images because I knew exactly how her stripes were supposed to look on both sides of her, and that's something else to take into consideration. I'm not saying we have to stick to the rule, but I do rather like it. I do like the idea of it being a guideline, but fights could break out if, say, I did Goldenflower's warrior, then somebody did Goldenflower's kit, and I had wanted to do all of her images and there was nothing to say who was right. 01:58, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I like Scarletwind's idea. So (another example) lets say I for some reason re-did my first image, Skyheart, and all of the other images had to be redone. Someone could as me if I could do one of the other images, and I'd reply either yes or no. If no one ever asked me if I could do one of the other images, then I'd automatically do it. How's that? I am terrible at explaining things, so if that was difficult to comprehend then tell me. 02:43, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Ivystripe and Scarletwind. I think that the rule should stay, because the artist who did one rank knows the style and has the colors, but if someone askes if they can re-do the image, the one who was re-doing all the other images had to reply a yes or a no. If they say yes, and the one now doing the rank with permission finds it too difficult, the original artist doing all the ranks can take over. 05:32, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if I like the idea of it being a rule, I think I like it being an idea. What do you guys think about this? 05:54, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I think an idea is better than a rule. 05:31, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Scarletwind. 05:12, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Join Request
Might I join? Hope I can be active enough. Two weeks is the max absence right? ~Breezewhisker~ 04:52, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Shelly's going to be happy to see this. Of course you can join! Read the guidelines if you're confused on anything, and I highly doubt you'll need the tutorial link, but here it is anyways. xD 05:21, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Also, yes. It's two weeks without activity, unless it's a legit reason - like a family emergency or something of that nature. 05:24, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, thank you. ~Breezewhisker~ 05:41, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

May I also join? I'm active pretty much every day, and I've been practicing with the program and I think I've got the hang of it. D a  z  z  l  e  w  i  n  g  A  star  with  a  purpose 08:28, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Of course :) Please look at the guidelines and the tutorials listed above if you have any questions. Welcome to PCA! 20:29, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome Breezewhisker and Dazzlewing! 05:42, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Apprentice Blanks
Shouldn't we remove the old apprentice blanks from the main Project page? 18:55, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me. Since the new ones are up for approval now, I see no need to keep the others up; users might thing they're still being used. 20:33, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Should we remove MCAs from articles, too? I can't see why they should be on an article if the apprentice image is being remade. 02:20, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, MCAs'll go as well. All forms of apprentice images. 03:56, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

I am now proud to announce that all apprentice images have been deleted off every page that was in the apprentice category! Thanks to everyone who helped out :) 04:32, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Inactive
I'm so sorry for being inactive! School has gotten to me. I noticed being taken off for inactivness. I'm sorry but can I rejoin? Leopardheart  Creature Of The Night  23:15, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that was the only reason YOU were taken off. I'll add you back in, if and only if you promise to use your own work from now on. 23:17, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I promise!! I really didn't mean to last time! But you don't have to and thats okay. Leopardheart Creature Of The Night  23:21, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Is Laynabug gonna be added in? I mean, Laynabug, I don't see how it is possible to "accidentally" steal art. 02:27, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

I mised up the files!! I guess I won't be added in then. :( Leopardheart  Creature Of The Night  03:00, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, I really have no idea, I am not a lead, but I guess you will be added back in. 03:02, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

I will talk it over with the other leads. Since it was my art you stole, I'm still a little mad. However, if the others agree, we'll add you back into the project. 03:03, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Just to add, you didn't catch when you uploaded it, Hollyleaf.kit.png and not notice anything wrong with the name of it? 03:06, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

^_^ 'Tis true. Gah, edit conflictions  03:08, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Okay. I'll add you back in... But, if I ever catch you using artwork that is not your own, I will be kicking you out of the project, as well as reporting you to one of the sysops. 03:40, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you so much! I promise I won't ever do it again! Leopardheart Creature Of The Night  03:57, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

I'll hold you to that. Please, re-read the guidelines before commenting on anything... We don't want any problems, do we? ;) 03:59, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Art Theft
I was wondering, say, someone on facebook coloured in one of our blanks here, and posted it on their wall, does that count as art theft? If so, there is a girl there that is colouring them in than putting them on their wall. 00:33, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Facebook isn't Warriors Wiki. Yes, it's considered art theft. Please, ask them to remove it. 00:35, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I just did. What part of "For Warriors Wikia only" don't people get? 00:38, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Post a link. Then we can swarm :D 00:39, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Don't let Shelly see this...please.... *is scared of what might happen* 00:40, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Aha, I'm looking now if she took 'em off. If she didn't, I post link >:D 14:27, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Good. Hehehe 14:29, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

She took 'em off. xD No swarm :( 14:32, November 12, 2011 (UTC)



Question About Reserving
So in the little iWhatever sneak peak it gave the names for a few of the ShadowClan apprentices' warrior names. Is it okay to reserve the charart for the warrior now, or must I wait until the book comes out to reserve them? Reserve, not put up for approval. ~Breezewhisker~ 08:39, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Well, do you know their description? 12:08, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

You'll have to wait for the book to come out. 14:58, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

All right. Will do then. ~Breezewhisker~ 23:45, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

A question
Would Mapleshade get a deputy charart, when she said "I should have been ThunderClan's leader!" because it could be that she was the deputy than. Thanks, 14:44, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

She never said that she was a deputy. That quote could mean that if she was a warrior in ThunderClan long enough, she may have become deputy, then leader. 14:46, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

I never said that she was the deputy I said she could have been the deputy. So it could be a possibility. 14:50, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

True. I'll look around for a confirmation, or something like that. 14:57, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Unless she said "I was ThunderClan's deputy" then no she doesn't get one. Lots of cats could be deputy but they don't get pixils. 15:08, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Ivy's correct. No statement, no charart. That would be a little out of hand. Maybe we'll find out more information on Mapleshade in the upcoming books. Who knows? You did bring up quite a valid piece of information though. 21:25, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. 21:58, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

More art theft on Facebook
Yup, title says all. I've reported the picture and messaged him/her. Attack the link, if you'd like. :3 ^_^ 20:40, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

grrr.. 20:41, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Idiots, I tell you. I reported it as well. 20:44, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Reported, * Leaf likes reporting* Leaf-storm,21:21,November 12,2011 (UTC)

Reported as well. Swarm! =D 21:28, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Swarming is fun! =) 21:30, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Also, to kinda help, sort through the family of the user. I've noticed Lionblaze has an image of ours. (But of course, his account is private and won't let me report the image.) :3 Brambleclaw does too, but I reported that. Oi, so many idiots that think they can get away with it. :P 21:40, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

We should create a group on Facebook: The defenders of Warriors Wiki, or something like that. Our mission is to eliminate any and all images that are uploaded outside of this wiki. 21:42, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

OMG perfect. IDK if your sarcastic or not but I love it! 21:44, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

xD Yess! And I noticed the Lionblaze image too, but yep. Private :P 21:45, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Agreeing with the above about the group. 21:47, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

I so made the group. Come join! 21:53, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Just saying that my account has my middle name as my last name due to privatary reasoning. (Mom) :P 21:55, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

That's fine. I don't mind. XD 21:57, November 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * _; it says closed group! ;_; meh can't join.... 22
 * 05, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Yes you can. Any join requests much be approved by myself, Splashy or Feather. 22:06, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

I know fail but...how do you join....I'm so n00b.... 22:12, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

There should be a request to join link or something of the sort on the page. 22:14, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Top right corner Sandstorm. 00:50, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

I requested to join after reading Sweetflower's and Cloudskye's instructions.- Kittycat79 aka Rowantail 01:10, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Good! 01:15, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

I so joined the group :3 12:30, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

I finded somethim more:

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/warriors+app down is "hided" charart of Scourge Leaf-storm,13:07,November 13,2011 (UTC)

Joinage (I'm Rebecca by the way XD) 14:04, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

This is annoying, so many art thefts XX@. I would join, but my facebook doesn't work for some reason. Imagine the art theft's faces after they see this! 05:16, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Can I Please Join?
CAN I PLEASE JOIN AS AN APPRENTICE? Thanks ♪ ★Hollycloud♪ ★ 04:04, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

I'll add you in the official way now. Read over the guidelines before commenting on an image. Also, if you need help, we have a tutorial for all members to look at. 07:18, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome Hollycloud! 06:11, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Leaving
Earlier toda I decided that I am leaving PCA for a bit, i'll probobly come back once I feel like I can contribute better, but i've just been nothing but a bump in the road to the wiki since i've returned. Mabye by the time i come back, i'll actually have improved on my charart.

So. . . I guess I can be removed from ze' project now...xD

. 07:09, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Feather, you suck. >.>;;; 07:10, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

sorry. :S. 07:15, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

FEATHER! >:( ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  08:35, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

That's really sad, but hopefull you'll be back soon. 15:52, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Feather! You better be back soon. xD 15:54, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, bye Feather, be well! Come back when you can. 16:29, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, Feather, why must you leave us? ): Come back soon! 18:35, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Bye Feather.. And you're not a big bump in the road for the project. 05:19, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Bye Feathermoon. Fair enough, we all need space and time to ourselves at least one time in our lives. 06:16, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Harakiri-wish - Join Request
Can I join the project please? Harakiri-Wish ,18:08,November 13,2011 (UTC)

Alts
In CoTC, Boulder is a blue-gray tabby, Onestar is a brown tabby with white stripes, Willowshine is a sliver or pale gray she cat, Echosong is a gray tabby with a white muzzle and chest, do these get alts? If yes may I do Boulder or Onestar? Also Leafpool was in a two leg den if Willowbreeze gets one, should Leafpool? 19:26, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Leafpool was in a den? Or was it in a garage or something like that. 20:54, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

They called the cages dens. ~Breezewhisker~ 21:00, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

I knew that. I meant what type of structure the cages which the cats were in, were in. xD 21:07, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Echosong has the same description as her current charart. And with Boulder and Willowpaw, those are almost just the same descriptions. I would say that only Onestar gets one, in my opinion. (and possibly Leafpool) M is    t y pe bb le   ♪Goo d day♪ just go with |undefined the flow   02:10, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

I believe Leafpool (and any other cat in the twoleg den/cages) should get one, but that's just my opinion. =3 02:13, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, Leafpool should get one for kittypet I think. As well as, I think it was Brightheart, Cloudtail, Mistyfoot, and the other cats. 05:21, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

If Willowbreeze gets one, so do they^. 05:29, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Wait, wait, wait. Leafpool, Mistystar, and company were put in cages. Now, I don't know the situation with Willowbreeze, but didn't she actually go into a Twoleg house? The Clan cats were in cages, not kept as pets, and they never went into an actual human house. That's like saying any cat who even went inside a building (I'm talking Ravenpaw, every cat who's ever been in his barn) should get one. Doesn't that sound just a little ridiculous? 05:38, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Ravenpaw goes willingly, so that doesn't count. Mistystar and the others were taken against their will, and forced to live inside a twoleg truck. That's still considered a twoleg thing, therefore making them temporary kittypets. If you'd like, I'll explain my reasoning in the morning - I seem to have fallen a bit ill, and I can't gather my thoughts correctly. 05:41, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

So you're saying that because Ravenpaw went willingly, he doesn't get a kittypet. What about actual kittypets who are co-operative? I mean, you don't see Smudge trying to break out of his house. I still don't think we need all these unnecessary chararts. 05:44, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Clan cats who are taken unwillingly. The other kittypets like Smudge and Princess have nothing to do with this. They were forced to live the life of an unhappy kittypet (The Clan cats). If I remember correctly, they also had the chance to eat their food, too. Graystripe got a kittypet image, when in no way, shape or form did he consider himself a kittypet. 05:47, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

"A kittypet is the Clan cats' word for housecats, that Twolegs keep and care for.

Kittypets are looked after and pampered by Twolegs. They are plump and well-fed because Twolegs feed them several times daily with dry, tasteless pellets that look like rabbit droppings and soft slop, according to the Clan cats. They are soft-muscled and know very little about the arts of fighting and hunting (with notable exceptions). At a certain age, they are taken to be neutered or spayed by the veterinarian, who is otherwise known to the Clan cats as the Cutter. After this visit, they usually become lazy and have no desire to do much. {C}{C The life of a kittypet is scorned by Clan cats, and it is against the Warrior Code for a warrior to become a kittypet."

Does that sound like what happened to Leafpool, Mistystar, or even Willowbreeze? They certainly were not "pampered". As for Graystripe, if I remember correctly, he was actually taken care of by Twolegs. That being said, cats like Willowbreeze and even Leafstar should not have kittypet images. 05:53, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

But, the fact of the matter is they were taken. Against their will. If they're not with their Clan, then how are they considered Clan cats? Jeez, Mistystar even got a replacement. I told you I'd gather my reasonings in the morning, because right now, I'm pretty much useless. x.x;;

Sorry if I repeat anything that's been said already, I'm way too tired to read through this all, but first of all, I'm pretty sure if was like a trailer Leafpool and them were kept in. Second of all, Leafstar and Willowbreeze were taken, and actually kept as kittypets, whereas Leafpool and those cats were just captured in cages. So, no, I don't think Leafpool or any of those cats should get kittypet images, but I think Leafstar and Willowbreeze are fine. Just cause a cat's been in a house doesn't make them a kittypet. And I don't think Blouder should get an alt, it's probably just the lighting, but I think Onestar would, as he actually has a white muzzle, which is different from his description. As for Willowshine, that's pretty much her description already, she looks like a tabby to me. though the markings are faint, so I personally would say no, though others may disagree. And what's Echosong's description? I'm too tired (and lazy) to go look. :P I thought she WAS a gray tabby with white paws and muzzle? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  06:44, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not fully agreeing or disagreeing with the Leafpool thing. If we did make Leafpool and co. a kittypet charart, all these other cats would get kittypet chararts, and that would make a lot of work. But I'm almost sure that the clan cats said that Mistyfoot had been taken away by twolegs. Doesn't that meen that they were considered as kittypets at one stage?

As for the alts, I think Boulder might get one, since silver-gray and blue-gray are sort of different. Onestar should get an alt, and Willowshine might get one, only if it was pale gray. Echosong's description is the same as the cotc picture. 06:55, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

(DJ, you deleted my post. :P *had to copy it from the history and repost* Please be careful.) ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  07:01, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Apprenices
When the new apprentice blanks are approved, will the apprenices be put on the approval page or the tweak page? I'm thinking approval, but I'm not sure. Bluestar11796 19:47, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Probably tweak page because they are being redone. 20:25, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Tweak. We're not creating any new files, so each image is simply being redone. 20:26, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Wait. So do apprentices get to do any of them? 20:51, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Wait I thought Tweak Week was ending soonish?

I was wondering the same thing as Sweetflower. There's a lot of apprentice ones that'll need doing. ~Breezewhisker~ 21:01, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Only Warriors and leads can tweak, so you guys won't be able to do it. Oblivion just said. 21:06, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Where have you been, Sandstorm? Tweak Week is a full time thing now. 21:07, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Oops sorry fail. I never got the memo... 21:07, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Sweet, Breeze, any characters that don't have an apprentice image already (aka apprentice images on the Characters Needing Art List) may be done by apprentices. Other than that, warriors tweak the images on the new blanks. ;) 21:28, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Does that mean Warriors+ get to reserve them now for tweaks? M is   t y pe bb le   ♪Goo d day♪ just go with |undefined the flow   21:47, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Not now. Once they are approved. :3 21:52, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

No, Iceheart said that they're going on the approval page so everyone can do the new apprentice images. It'll let it get done faster than excluding the apprentices in the project would. 23:03, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

I thought this discussion was brought up before, and I'm pretty sure it was going on the approval page. 05:24, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, we discussed this before (a couple times actually XD) and it was decided that apprentices could do them. I don't remember whether they were going up on the approval or tweak page, but I would think the approval. Iceheart and a few other leads said themselves that apprentices could do the images too, so you're good. :) ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  06:52, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

I knew it xD. Iceheart told me before everyone could do them. And when I saw only Warriors + I'm just like Wha?! That's not right :D. So all better. Everone can do them, anywyas that's what I was told. 11:31, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Redoing images...
Hey, I know we have a rule that anyone that redoes an image has to redo all the images for that cat, but shouldn't it also be a rule that the user has to do the rest of the cat's images before redoing another cat's image? I mean, it wouldn't apply to just tweaking another cat's image, but to redo one image and then go to redo another cat's image means that one user can just quickly make it so that they have "dibs" on multiple cats when another user could be doing them. Personally, I think that makes the project run a bit slower as the extra images for that cat could be done rather quickly but just sit there waiting for the user that decided to redo one image and just moved on to another cat. Does anyone agree? 04:14, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

To clarify: basically, you'd have to redo all of the images for one cat before redoing another cat's. You could go tweak another image in you wanted, as tweaks don't require you to do every image on a page. 04:16, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

I thought something similar. Yes, that makes sense and I like it. 04:24, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, cause someone could redo a lot of images, and have to redo all their ranks. 05:26, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

I always found this rule silly to begin with. I mean, if you have to redo one image on a page whose two images already look different, it's not out of your ability to copy the other artist's style. Now, I know that if you can't do it you can't do it, but when Iceheart told me about this rule (because I had never had any indication about it before) I was completely baffled. Do we really think that our artists aren't good enough that they can't copy a charart? 05:41, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

The rule is stupid, albight a bit useful. Personally, I don't want it around. Say if someone's going to re-do Cloudtail's images (Not going to happen, but just an example), I'll be the first to admit, I'll snag his kittypet image if possible. I adore it, and if I had the chance to work on it, I would. It seems certain people think that we're unable to mimic another style. >.>;; 05:44, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

I hate this rule too. I mean, what if we had it where the people who make new images for characters (say, a new kit or something) make all the images for that character from there on in? That would just be plain silly, and honestly, I don't see this as very much different than that. I mean, I would probably (along with a few other probably) redo the rest of the images for a character, but making it a rules just seems a bit unneeded. I think we should get rid of it, and it seems a few other people agree with me. :P Though, MAYBE we could make it so if the image isn't on the redo list, the person has to do the rest, but not if it is on the redo list? Cause then, it wouldn't really be completely necessary for the image to be redone, so the artist would have to take responsibility for making the rest of the images match? Though, like I said, personally I think we should just get rid of the rule altogether. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  06:58, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, you guys are right. The reason I thought of the little add on up there was because I think of the rule as flawed as well. Dunno what they were thinking, my first charart for the project was Shellheart's elder image, and I copied the deputy image just fine. I could do the same on the redos. 12:33, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Could I join?
Hey! Starlingflight here. I used to be an apprentice on the Project and I really enjoyed my time here before I went inactive for awhile. Do you suppose I could join again? I'd really love to and I've been practising my chararts during my time off =P I'd really love to be a part of the project again.

04:49, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Mentoring
Now, before you say anything, I know this has been brought up before, but I truly do think this would be a good idea. I think we should have mentors for the apprentices. I mean, I remember when I was an apprentice, and I see the new apprentices these days, and I really do think it would be a helpful thing. And if we had them, we wouldn't have to give ALL the apprentices mentors, maybe only the ones who actually want one, and the ones who have been stalking here a while and know their way around wouldn't get one. And also, it wouldn't have to be till they're Warriors, just till they get more comfortable with the project, and feel they'll be fine on their own. I mean, I know apprentices can always go to the warriors or leads for help, but it's not quite the same as having one specific person kinda showing you the ropes. Like I said, I know this has been brought up before, but I wouldn't be bringing it up again if I didn't think it'd be beneficial to the project. What do you guys think? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  07:10, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

This is a wonderful idea! I've been in this project fro 3 months, and personally I'm still confused on this! Think back to when you first joined. You probably needed help. Right? Most, if not all, new users need help. Well, because their new! I think it would make the project run smoother, instead of cluttering the talkpage with questions like "where does shding go?" if your not sure. This is very beneficial. 11:26, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

I love this idea! I really wanna be a mentor. XD 12:56, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

As shocking as some may find it, I'd like to be a mentor as well. Some of the apprentices seem to be groping around in the dark at times, I'd like to help sort one out. 13:06, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe we should have requirements to be a mentor though? Just to make sure that the apprentices get experienced mentors? Like, maybe we could make it the old image requirement for being a warrior before? What was it, 3-4 images? IDK, just a suggestion. And, I'd love to be a mentor too, yeah. XD ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  13:20, November 14, 2011 (UTC)