Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

Discord "Pre-Reservations"
I noticed a lot of this lately. Basically people "reserve" things before blanks are approved, and tell an admin on discord or something. If someone happens to reserve that image before they do, they receive a lot of backlash and the image goes to that person who "pre-reserved" it eventually. This happened to me before with Needletail, and I should've brought this up earlier. I think we either stop with these "pre-reservations" altogether, or make it an official thing on the wiki. It's unfair to those, like me, who don't use discord and have no idea who reserved what and what's "available", even though technically they are all free game. Thoughts?

I think the pre-reservations are helpful and are actually more fair in a way. Lots of us have totally different timezones and always get screwed over by wiki time when things get approved and we don’t get to the ones we want in time. It’s really helpful and takes a lot of stress off.

However, I wasn’t aware about the issue with it going to the pre-reserve person. I think that if you manage to reserve an image before the big pre-reserve, it should be yours.

I agree with need to fix this, and maybe making it official would work, or at least having some sort of notice/page for everyone to see. Good on you for bringing it up Fox!! :) 05:24, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

its unfair to those who dont use discord. on the other hand, timezones and edit conflicts suck, so i support the idea of having an official prereserve page where people express interest in prereserving images. people with reservation conflicts can discuss it amongst themselves. however, as of now having it done on discord is unfair and this should be addressed. 05:27, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

I don't have an issue with people wanting/pre-reserving images because yeah, timezones put people at a disadvantage. But when people who reserved images fairly are forced to hand over images simply on the basis of people saying "I wanted it" "I told an admin on discord" etc., it becomes unfair, especially if the person wouldn't have known about it beforehand. For me personally, I had no idea Needletail was "pre-reserved" because I didn't go on discord, but my reservation was rebuked and changed. I shouldn't be punished on the basis of not going on discord and not knowing about an unofficial reservation. The reason I'm bringing this up now is because I don't want a repeat of this for the leader blanks, warrior blanks, etc. If we make this official where everyone's decisions are transparent with everyone, I'd be fine with it.

I will admit, I was one of the ones who did a massive pre-reverse because no one took an issue and it was usually only 5 or so hours in advance. Although I think a pre-reverse table beats the idea of a reservation table in general since it is first come first serve, I think Fox brings up a very valid point. Also, I want to add that "I told an admin on discord" is null and should not qualify in any way shape or form. But, if this proves to be an issue, then it should not be allowed. 05:36, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

Addition: Pre-reverses, whenever they are, are not official and never have been. So Fox, whoever removed your reservation if you reversed first was completely uncalled for. Other than that, I can only see pre reverses being official in a case for OAs. 05:37, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

Agreed with everything Icy said. Prereserves are unofficial, and they don't hold any claim until they're put up. I do like the idea of trying to find another way to do "prereserving", but unsure where we could include everyone since not everyone has Discord, etc. —

If anything, if there were pre-reserves you could always do them on the wikia chat (when/if enabled). That way everyone could get involved. 05:42, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

We could make a disscussion forum perhaps? 05:46, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

Chat is easily missed for those who don't come on the right time. If anything, it should be a forum/discussion page.

But, if we officially pre-reserve, the reservation table loses its purpose as well. 05:49, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

Why have these at all? Like, if it wasn’t an issue then hey why not, but having them on a forum and stuff like that with discussions and everything just seems kinda not. Wow it’s late. I’m for just doing things the traditional way, racing to their own and that’s that. And perhaps generally try to CBA blanks at a time that isn’t 3:40am for a good chunk of our EST editors (and many who are otherwise in the US, 2:40 or 1:40am). About 12:00 would work for a lot more people and would hit pretty much all of our editors timezones.

I'm in agreement with Spooky. I'd rather keep things the traditional way. 05:59, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. Although I have been the one doing the pre-reservations, I believe now is the time to stop. 06:02, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

What about a page within PCA that's basically for marking your interest in an image? No official reservation, just something to notify people that you would like to work on it, and the other people wanting to reserve it can do what they wish with that information. Most people are fairly good about working out conflicts among themselves when multiple people want the same image, either by not reserving the image at all or contacting the other person who wants to reserve it. And if the conflict can't be resolved, then they can always resort to the traditional method of trying to be the first to place it on the reservation table. This would at least give people who can't be online as soon as the images are available a higher chance of getting what they want, without being an official reservation and making things unfair.

But whatever the case, I don't think there should be any rule that says you can only reserve images for yourself. People have always been allowed to personally ask friends to reserve an image for them if they won't be online, and that seems a lot more reasonable that a mass reservation via discord. Plus it still follows normal rules, if someone else beats your friend and reserves the image first you just have to deal, so it's not any less fair than you trying to reserve yourself. The sketchiness only comes with when there's an organized big batch of images being added all by one person imo.

"Sketchiness" implies there's ulterior motives... which has never been the intent. Mass reserving spiraled out of control, as it initially started with just a couple of people and it escalated to a larger group of people. There was no ulterior motives here, it was just something nice Icy wanted to do for everyone since lately images have been approved in the early AM when some users (mostly American) are sleeping. —

honestly ive once been involved in the prereserving thing (over skype tho not discord, and a reaaaaaally long time ago loll) and i sincerely does think it does help users who are disadvantaged in terms of timezone and stuff. however i dont support the fact that it happens solely off wiki. instead i agree for a page that allows you to express interest in certain images, as paleclaw suggested. in no way would it be official, but i think it can help settle the edit conflicts a little better especially in a time where many blanks are being redone and mass reservations and stuff are happening like every week 10:06, February 10, 2019 (UTC)

The term sketchiness wasn't meant to imply ulterior motives or anything of the sort. It was only meant to imply that it enters into the gray zone of what's considered fair or unfair.

Wait, what? The mass reserves are only supposed to be done after the blanks are approved... am I missing something here, Fox? They were typically only done if someone couldn't get online, or to reduce the amount of edit conflicts. There's never been any ill intent behind these to my knowledge, but if people agree that it seems unfair, then we'll definitely put a stop to it. =) ​​

I mainly have an issue with people who tell the admins or whoever on discord that they "want" a certain image (before the blanks are approved). And then if someone else happens to reserve that image first, they would get backlash. Others would avoid reserving the image altogether, which sort of defeats the purpose of the reservation table? not talking about one person reserving images for their friends, I don't have a problem with that. The main issue is some of us don't go on discord, so there's no way of knowing who wants what and what to "avoid" reserving when the blanks are approved. For example, someone "wanted" Needletail on discord, but I reserved it first (since I don't go on discord, I didn't know about it). My reservation was removed. This morning someone also told me that they wanted an image and told Icy about their intent. I was reminded of the Needletail situation and didn't want a repeat of it.

Though now that mass reservation has been brought up, I think it's somewhat unfair to those who don't use discord. It defeats the purpose of the reservation table because you can technically "reserve" something beforehand, and if you aren't part of this mass pre-reservation thing you're automatically at a disadvantage in terms of claiming images. I think Paleclaw's idea of having an "interest page" is great. Those who don't go on discord and have a time zone disadvantage can express their interest in doing an image.

Okay so here's my two cents: prereserving was meant to be a way for others to get images if they really couldn't at said time, and they wouldn't be online for another couple hours or so. I myself have been screwed over by this recent CBA, since it occured at a time where I wouldn't be online at that time. And I can't stay up so no chance of jumping on it. I agree with you Fox that doing it soley over Discord is screwing over non-Discord users, but the idea of an official prereservation page defeats the purpose of a reservation table. Having something loose where we can discuss said reservations would be ideal, as others have suggested. However, CBAing images when most people aren't asleep or at school would also be helpful. Not trying to sound passive-aggressive or the like, I'm just trying to state my feelings. It kinda pisses me off when people are online at the approval time and I'm not soley because I'm sleeping or at school. Now if I'm not online because I chose not to be, then that's my fault. I'm not mad that others reserved it beforehand, I'm mad that they could get to it earlier and I couldn't because I couldn't be available at said time. Sorry if this is a mouthful to read and it jumps all over the place I'm not very coherent since I just woke up lol.

I mean, at one point I expressed interest to do three images, all of which belong to Jayce, and she said i could, is that ok? Malina457 (talk) 19:28, February 11, 2019 (UTC)malina

This thread is discussing "prereservations" that happen in Discord, where one person mass reserves for people right after blanks are approved. This is not about discussing OA claims. —

Malina, what I did was gave up my OA claims and passed them onto you; that is most definitely allowed and not quite the same thing. The three images I personally gave you (Finchflight, Breezepelt, and Nightcloud's warriors) are all yours to create and you have first dibs. ​

If I may, I have a suggestion. Although I am not exactly a huge part of PCA.. I can see what's going on here. So, I suggest that maybe there is a page made. Users who are particularly passionate about a certain character they want to try will be listed, assuming that the OA has not claimed the art piece yet. This would probably be best prior to blank approval.. On that page, if there is discontent, then perhaps that can be solved individually? Furthermore, the users will also put a time they added their character. I'm not sure how to explain this. Sort of a vote? I understand it might be more tedious, but there's no way every user is gonna be online and be able to land the pieces they want. I will also be willing to help out with a spreadsheet of some sort. Idk. Just a thought ^^ -- PyroNacht

I really like the idea of a spreadsheet/google doc

Any other comments? It seems that a lot of people are on board with the idea of having an interest page, if I'm not mistaken.

(This be Pyro on a new account ^^ ) I am more than willing to put together a Google spreadsheet and/or document, as I am extremely proficient in Excel and the related functions. However, in order to do that, I will need to ask: if we go through with this Interest page/document/etc, how long should we give others to review and solve? I'm sort of envisioning it like this: we have a talk or subpage for Interests only. That is where all things will go. I will add interests to a Google spreadsheet accordingly with proof of the edit (so anybody who DMs such would need to post on the page for fairness), and there will be a timer function that counts down from the moment the edit was made. My question is, what should the time limit be? And if there's no dispute, that character goes to said person. I hope this makes sense and I apologize if it seems like I'm taking charge - I just would like to help out however I can ^^ --OhlookSinesta (talk) 19:01, February 17, 2019 (UTC)

I don't think there should be a timer function because that defeats the purpose of the reservation table. I think, as Paleclaw said, that we should just let people do whatever they want with the information about other people's interests.

I also think a talk page/sub page would suffice, though a Google doc would also work.

Ack, I've been crazy busy. Alright, I'm gonna throw together a spreadsheet and I'll make a new discussion section with the link when I'm done ^^ --OhlookSinesta (talk) 22:20, February 25, 2019 (UTC)

idk this whole thing just would kinda defeat the purpose of the reservation table. not everyone has the discord, and its no longer on the actual site itself, so i think we should stick to it being on the wiki itself. like dont get me wrong sometimes pre-reservations are a good thing but idk 17:34, 2/27/2019

interest pages wouldn't because they aren't official reserves, just telling people what they're interested in doing.

Comments? 21:25, March 9, 2019 (UTC)

If we are to create an interest page, now would be a good time as people have conflicts all over the place and it's hard to come up with a working date for everyone. Potentially the conflict can be eased if people know what others want to do.

Non-Clan Leader Blanks
I was talking with a few users in Discord and they suggested I bring this up here. The non-Clan leaders are pretty much the cats that lead their little rogue/loner groups, I suggest a blank for the Non-Clan leaders. Since they technically get a rank of being leader but aren't actually Clans I think it'd be a great idea to have a blank fit for them. The leaders that would more or less count for this would be like Darktail, Harley, Jingo, etc. I don't really think BloodClan would considering they were referred as a Clan in the books. Thoughts? 09:15, February 13, 2019 (UTC)

I don't think there's really a reason to give them a different blank. There really isn't much difference from a Clan leader besides the nine lives, and even then Nightstar and Mothpelt were leader with one life. Stoneteller has a blank because that role is a medcat and leader hybrid. 9:43 Wed Feb 13 2019

i still think at the most it should be a somewhat minor tweak of the current ones if anything at all. another idea (that would be pc's jurisdiction) would be adding clan leader as the thing in the infobox, instead of just leader as it is now. 09:58, February 13, 2019 (UTC)

I don't think they'd need a different blank. It's sort of like making blanks for clan queens and non-clan queens, which would be pretty unnecessary.

Agreeing with Fox and Breezey here. Another blank is not necessary. Those cats are still technically seen as leaders, even if they don't have nine lives. 18:18, February 13, 2019 (UTC)

Agreed with above. They're not all that different from clan leaders in terms of role. 14:10, February 14, 2019 (UTC)

I think it's unnecessary for them to have separate blanks. In the end, they're all leaders, whether they have nine lives, or are in a Clan or not. 14:31, February 14, 2019 (UTC)

Maybe not another blank but maybe a tweak to their art to show their non-clan like Da ud said earlier. 16:13, February 14, 2019 (UTC)

I think we should tweak the current one to show some difference; there is a notable difference between Clan leaders and other leaders. It isn't quite just the nine lives, it's the rules they live by, their duties, how they act - all of which makes them so much different from cats like Jumper and Fog.

We could definitely tweak them.... but we also made a cotp blank for fewer cats than we have cited as non-clan leaders. So really I have no preference to how we go about this. 18:25, 02/15/2019

I agree there, that's why I brought this up. A blank was even made for the rank of mediator and CotP and I think non-clan leaders would count too. 18:52, February 15, 2019 (UTC)

I think we should have a non-clan leader blank, but I think it should just be slightly tweaked,  maby a new blank in a simalar position? ❈ Love is Love, forever! ❈ =^.,.^= 22:18, February 15, 2019 (UTC)

Kinda divided but since this stalled... any other comments before a vote on whether to make a tweaked version or no?

I honestly think it'd be a waste seeing as a big defining difference between non-Clan leaders and Clan leaders, from what I remember, is their faith (the whole nine lives thing) - which isn't a physical thing. A leader is a leader honestly - seeing as they do the same things. 21:33 Thu Feb 28 2019

I'm going to agree with Max. There is zero difference, and leaders are leaders, non-Clan or Clan. 00:56, March 4, 2019 (UTC)

I do feel there is a difference between Clan leaders and non-Clan leaders. For one, the nine lives. The other thing is the Clans are very rigid with their rules. They don't switch leaders like The Ancients did, and they have strict rules on who is next in line and the warrior code also demands loyalty to their leaders. Other leaders do not really have that.

Although I don't think a whole new blank is necessary. Perhaps just a tweaked version of the leader blank? Like we did with the old healer blank.Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:00, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

Alternate Charart Section
Some characters, like Tawnypelt have so many alts that the gallery looks a little clunky and disorganized. Perhaps we should have a separate gallery for the alts? This way the chararts look more organized. It might also be helpful to have all the non-alts in one section for visual purposes. Thoughts?

I like this idea! Half the time, I look at the art for a quick glance, and I think the wrong one is what the really look like! I 100% support this. Welcome, to a world  of wonder,  and beauty!  Now follow me,  into the light!  04:50, February 20, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm all for it. Especially for cats like Brackenfur and Bluestar, too. Sometimes all those alts together can be quite an eyesore. 05:00, February 20, 2019 (UTC)

absolutely since mistakes are so prominent in this stupid series 09:17, February 20, 2019 (UTC)

Would this work?

Could also just reorder the images so the same alts are together. 11:20 Wed Feb 20 2019

I think that might end up looking messy for characters with a lot of different mistakes throughout the series, and it might get trickier to organize if that is the case.

for extreme cases like Tawnypelt and stuff, sure, but not if they only have an alt or two; just in the interest of section counts it'd be good to just do it for those that need it imo

any other comments?

Not really good at coding or anything, but would it be possible to put them into seperate tabs within the gallery? 21:13, February 28, 2019 (UTC)

hmmm tabs?

Ooh yes, I do like the look of those. 19:12, March 3, 2019 (UTC)

Yes that tabs would work great! Tawnypelt is getting so long and confusing ><Stealth f🔥re ❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:01, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

Kits or warriors first
Okay so we had two prior discussions on these redoes, we got the pretty clear results of:
 * 1) Getting the blanks approved and then not using them until announced
 * 2) Split them up into sections alphabetically (such as A-D, E-J etc) to have us only do one sector at once to save it being crazy
 * 3) Warriors and above can have three images (two of which must be OA claims if one has any, then one original; which will then revert to three original when no OA claims remain)
 * 4) We’ll start making them after kittypet and leader

We do have one other thing to bring up though - kits or warriors first? Or do A-D warriors, then A-D kits to break up the monotony? Alsooooo hey does anyone want a few days break between finishing KPs/leaders and starting whatever we pick because my hand hurts from making so many recently and I’d like to think I’m not the only one

I like the idea of doing A-D warriors, then A-D kits, or the same thing, but have kits first, then warriors. I don't care either way. I would love to have a break after we finish up KPs and leaders. My hand is ready to fall off. Could maybe take a weeks break? 04:07, February 25, 2019 (UTC)

Intervals of four sounds like a good until (until we get to like the S's oh man). I don't have a preference which goes first, but I also agree alternating them. One can only shade the same short-haired warrior before it gets monotonous. And can we please take a break? Maybe one week or two...please 04:14, February 25, 2019 (UTC)

Alternating them sounds like a good idea. And I agree that we should take a break (probably a week or two).

Alternating sounds like a good idea to me... and I also 100% agree that taking a break for a week or two would definitely work. I'm exhausted already from this, and being burnt out only produces less-than-quality art for someone like me. ​​

We'd do the smaller batch first, that'd be the kits. We should take a break for a week for a few, along with finishing the minor characters and character alts we have left. --' ll work this out" data-rte-attribs=" style= title=lost a little money, made it all back&#10;luckily i'll work this out"&gt; seven-headed snake, whatchu' call that? bleeding like an open scar  ​ 13:17, February 28, 2019 (UTC)

I agree on finishing what's on the list before we start the warriors and kits because those have been sitting there for a while.

Hmm a side thought, we could tap into a half batch of elders perhaps halfway through the alphabet, and the handful of unknowns later on? The switching of kits and warriors will help a lot with the monotony, but there's still a good 150 images per batch of those

I would like to do kits first- but this is a preference of mine. I do agree with Spooky, we can throw a few elders in the purge as well. 00:57, March 4, 2019 (UTC)

I’m not a fan of the switching and would prefer to do kits first. 21:25, March 9, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that doing the kits first would be best - I'd get a bit lost if we kept switching. 18:07, March 11, 2019 (UTC)

Hmm a date suggested on discord was March 23 (next Saturday). Also, maybe we should have a formal vote regarding if we should switch and if we should do kits/warriors first. What does everyone think?

March 23 is fine with me, and I think a vote sounds like a good idea. 22:06, March 15, 2019 (UTC)

^ 02:40, March 16, 2019 (UTC)

Just gonna say that the 23rd definitely does not work for me. I work Saturdays and I'll already be long gone by the time this starts. Could we possibly push it back a day or two?

Vote is here. And I'd be fine with pushing it to Sunday

might be better to push it back a full week so the vote has time to be done so everyone knows it's turnout - and also because depending on when Sunday; could prove problematic because it's transitional with a school day

Hmm, how about March 30th? That's spring break I believe

Going to pop in and say the last week of march does not work for me. I have school for the whole 5 days and I'll be tired and stressed. -- 05:25, 3/16/2019

I am having a ongoing march break of now to 25 March, fyi ^^ -- 05:28, 3/16/2019

Family Tree Alts
So, I just visited the new website's family tree, and it has updated. we made many lts and have more alts planned due to errors, and I am bringing these up because on the tree, while some have not been fixed (Eg. Dustpelt, Stagleap, aswell as one other icon that I intend to nominate after this,). A lot of the icons have been fixed. https://imgur.com/a/UQeZNXB <-- All the ones I could find that were fixed are compiled in here. What should we do? Should we keep these alts? Remove them from the pages, and charart list? Another thing, Nightstar has been fixed, however I have just found this out, while my Nightstar family tree alt is up on the approval page. What's going to happen with Nightstar's star alt that's been up for approval? That's the basis of this. Squidward Plays All  Star. <font color="#302B54" face="Segoe Script" >I <font color="#483D8B" face="Segoe Script" >Am <font color="#6A5ACD" face="Segoe Script" >Ranko <font color="#836FFF" face="Segoe Script" >Kanzaki. 23:20, February 25, 2019 (UTC)

I'd say remove them since it's no longer a mistake (it's nice how they actually fixed it quite accurately..).

Agreed^^

Yeah, I agree we remove them. For your image, you can either withdraw it or keep going with it, I'd imagine. It just won't get put on the page, if everyone agrees. 03:06, February 26, 2019 (UTC)

^ rip pebbleshine -- 07:01, February 26, 2019 (UTC)

So is it fine to remove them from pages or at least the charart list? <font color="#302B54" face="Segoe Script" >Squidward <font color="#483D8B" face="Segoe Script" >Plays <font color="#6A5ACD" face="Segoe Script" >All  <font color="#836FFF" face="Segoe Script" >Star. <font color="#302B54" face="Segoe Script" >I <font color="#483D8B" face="Segoe Script" >Am <font color="#6A5ACD" face="Segoe Script" >Ranko <font color="#836FFF" face="Segoe Script" >Kanzaki. 17:05, February 26, 2019 (UTC)

Anyone care if we use some of these more generic ones for the minor cats page as the need arises? Like, a lot of them will get totally nuked, but some of the solids and tabbies and stuf we can reuse for super generic descriptions

Since we're removing them from their original purpose, I see no reason to not use them elsewhere if possible. It's better than having perfectly acceptable images go to waste.

Agreed. Perhaps we can have a temporary category for these images? This makes things much easier in cases, for example, I'm searching for images for the minor characters pages. I just look at the category instead of trying to track them all down then look at them. Once I've found the image a place, I just remove the category.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:03, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

24 hour archiving for warriors and kits
So we have 1000+ images in total to do. In the past someone brought up that it could be possible to archive an image 24 hours from the last comment, like the tweak page. I think this could be a time efficient way to go about with these images. Thoughts?

I think the way we're doing it now is fine. Not a lot can get on before the twenty four hours is up so I honestly think we should keep it as we're doing. 13:41, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

Agreed with Mink.

13:52, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately i have to agree with mink, the way we're going about it now is definitely fine. it gives other people chances to comment  Whiskii  ✿

I think the regular process is fine. quality is key <span style="">13:56, 03/2/2019

^^

Yeah, since the blanks are completely redone, we should definitely keep to the same process as the leaders and kittypets. If we're slacking that badly, we have former leads that I'm sure would at least help out if they're asked, no?

Agreed with above. ^^ What we have works. 13:27, March 4, 2019 (UTC)

Unless the problem is a lack of lead activity (and as skye said, that can be addressed easily if it is a problem), changing the rules of approval wouldn't speed things up. The only cases it would make an image get approved faster is if the image wasn't actually at a point where a lead would CBA it. So either it wouldn't speed things up much, or it would result in lower quality images getting approved. By all means assign more leads if things go too slow, but I don't think the approval requirements should be changed.

Concurring with everything said above. 17:47, March 4, 2019 (UTC)

I’d be glad to help out if need be (dont think i was ever a sw here tho?? but i was a mentor) and i’m sure david wpuld lend a hand as well... I think we should definitely look at what the project has to say about temporary sws and if we really need them for this process. Warrior/kit images will be starting around the end of this month if im recalling correctly so we should look at getting input sooner rather than later if we’re going to go ahead with additional/temporary leads <span style="">18:07, 03/4/2019

I think that's a great idea, ferk. Temporary senior warriors would help take off the stress of the current leads and also provide experience for those who have never been a lead before. I believe there is a lot of people here that would be willing and active enough to fulfill that road. 00:30, March 6, 2019 (UTC)

Any other comments?

Do they need to be be temporary? Why not just promote people that should be leads? We'll be doing warriors and kits for a long time and it's not like leads are paid or anything. <span style="">14:04 Sun Mar 17 2019

i agree that if people are promoted as leads that they should stay as leads. its like a job but minus the pay, for example if youre parttime and you geet promoted to fulltime, thats not temporary. thats until you either leave, move higher in the company, or decide to move on <span style="">14:08, 3/17/2019

Elders - Redo or Tweak
Undeniably the new elder blank is drastically different from the old blank. I believe OAs who want to tweak their images can do so, but for many of us it might be easier to redo them, as mentioned on discord. If we are to redo/tweak these, do these go on the approval page or tweak page? Thoughts?

I thi k it shpuld go on the approval since it is technically a new, remade blank. I was talkin with David and Spook yesterday and they said that tweaks could be done for 90% of the cats mainly because they didn't want the old designs thrown out the window. 11:46, March 3, 2019 (UTC)

I do believe tweaks are able to be done for the vast majority of these. Black cats (or partially black) ones where the old lineart can't be removed won't be able to be tweaked (unless one is super amazing, but tweaking without removing the old lineart is ehhhh); otherwise though 'twedos' will probably end up what it'll be. It'll be very heavy tweaking, but still manageable, just to keep as much of the old patterns and work as we can, and then shifting a lot of stuff.

OAs should be allowed to redo their own images if they so wish, and if someone would rather redo instead of tweak, honestly probably just because it's easier... I would perfectly be okay with that, as long as people ask first, and the old designs are kept. They should also be presented on the approval page as per Mink, imo. ​

Would these count as a tweak?

Just tried tweaking one of these, and I honestly believe 90% being tweakable is a questionable statement, because most images with stripes are going to be extremely difficult to tweak without messing up the shading and pattern. Not all of us are extremely skilled at tweaking, and I think for the majority a redo would be more realistic. Obviously the pattern (and perhaps shading style) should be kept, but I don't think 90% are just tweakable for many of us.

they should be kept where possible. if in the end its too hard, then redo it. but people should at leaat try first. 10:35, March 4, 2019 (UTC)

Obviously, those who have the skills to tweak it, sure. But the new blank is so much more different from the old one. To tweak it, you essentially have to redo the head, ears, tail. The haunch's shading will be messed up, and the paws will have to be redone. I think it's justifiable if someone wants to redo it. Not only does it preserve quality but it's probably easier and more efficient. If you are a top tier tweaker, by all means tweak it, but many parts of the original would have to be essentially redone. I think if an artist wants to redo an elder, they should keep the original style and pattern.

I haven't tried tweaking them yet, but I always had my suspicions it would be a pain to tweak. While maybe solids or ones with little pattern I could see fairly plausible to tweak, I'm a bit more concerned about the complicated striped and texture ones. 13:30, March 4, 2019 (UTC)

Even if someone chooses to redo it, we should keep the first design. 13:33, March 4, 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Skt. An attempt should be made to transfer the old image/pattern first. It can be nominated to be redone if necessary. <span style="">14:51 Mon Mar 4 2019

^An attempt should be made, but if that proves too difficult, a nomination to redo would be fine with me, while keeping the original pattern. 17:50, March 4, 2019 (UTC)

I’d rather just read them and keep a similar pattern if possible. 22:46, March 15, 2019 (UTC)

honestly i think redoing them but keeping the same pattern is a feasible solution <span style="">22:55, 3/15/2019

ok if we're gonna be honest here, the elder blanks were basically redone, whether we like it or not. id honestly think that the process would be the same as with the leaders and kittypets because of this 15:13, March 17, 2019 (UTC)

Tigerclaw's Claws
Hm.. so I was talking with a few users in Discord about this but since he was named for his 'claws', I believe he should have this tweak added to his art. Especially since a lot of the art we make, especially if their named after these certain appearances. Thoughts? 07:53, March 6, 2019 (UTC)

Claws descriptions shouldn't have tweaks simply because claws are sheathed in all the current blanks. The claws wouldn't be visible no matter how long or different they are, unless they're specifically said to not be able to be sheathed (like with scourge). Unsheathing the claws just to show that part of the description would be kinda like changing the pose of the lineart to show an injury that would otherwise be hidden on a character, it doesn't make much sense imo. If there were a blank that actually had the claws unsheathed, I would definitely support changing them in cases like tigerstar where he's named after them, since that's consistent with other lineart tweaks we do.

I kindly disagree honestly, especially since he's named after having such long claws. A normal length of claws wouldn't show sheathed butwith longer claws it would. 15:41, March 8, 2019 (UTC)

I kind of have to agree with Paleh..are there photos of cats who actually have long claws like that where it would show even when retracted? If you can find something, Mink, I'd gladly accept a reference. ​

Hmm well when cats claws are sheathed, they are just hidden underneath the fur. If you part the fur a little, you can clearly see it poking out (I just did it with my cat he is a very good boy) so I imagine for Tigerstar his claws would protrude out a least a little bit.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:09, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

Well.. I can't provide an example from my cats because they have their claws out all the time. But if we tweaked Tigerstar for his claws, then Bramblestar would have to be tweaked because they both have long claws. Talonstar would be tweaked (if we ever get a description for him again) due to long claws, too. I agree with Paleh, sorry Mink. How would we even do the claws anyway? 00:47, March 11, 2019 (UTC)

Any other comments?

regarding to the 1 month limit
forgive me that this was brought up recently, but the discussion kind of got swept to a side, so id like to bring it up again. i honestly believe that we should extend the one month limit for users who consistently upload and are clearly working hard on an image. so many images made by kits got declined in the past due to this, and ive noticed that many of these kits also lost motivation and interest in the project after working for an entire month on multiple images but then letting their hard work go to waste. sorry for the bad grammar 11:51, March 8, 2019 (UTC)

im sorry but one month is a considerable amount of time for someone to work on an image. they have plenty of time to reupload and work on it. i think it should stay as is <span style="">12:31, 3/08/2019

So... The reason the one-month limit came about is PCA had many users and around 60+ images on the approval page at any time due to the sheer number of images that needed to be done. It would bog down wikia. It's the same reason there is a one-image and one-week limit for reservations. If we can manage the posting of hundreds of new warrior and kit images without completely maxing out the approval page, I'm game to remove the limit... But if it attrachs a lot of new users or returning users keep in mind that tons of users, especially if they're allowed to post more than one image for approval, will fill up the page very quickly and the page will max out (this happened pretty quickly on the tweak late when tweak nominations were introduced). Removing the max is also an option but I fear chararts will get lost or forgotten. <span style="">12:55 Fri Mar 8 2019

I can't remember the consensus of the previous discussion, but I think we talked about if the kit/apprentice consistently uploaded, then they were given some leeway...and they had a ten days to reupload instead of a week. I'm fine with those, and I think we should give kits/apprentices some extra support (those that are committed) instead of cutting them all off. However, I am not sure if we agreed on how much is a "leeway" for consistently uploading. II am a bit worried about what Breezy mentioned about if we should allow kits/apprentices (or maybe just apprentices idk) three images like we agreed for the kits/warriors images. 15:26, March 8, 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Winter though, one month is plenty time for someone to finish an image. Like yeah it sucks if you don't get it finished in that time hut it is completely fair. 15:42, March 8, 2019 (UTC)

Hmm the previous discussions decided that only warriors and above get three, while kits and apps get two btw^^ My thoughts, though: we did institute this for a reason, and there's no shortage of images to tackle. One shouldn't hold a reservation for too long because others should have a chance at it in that case as well. We do support newer users - we give them extra time to upload, and we added that just recently. That addition makes things slower already, and the sections that pile up at top are never a good thing. If there's no month limit, and one upload a ten-day....what's the cutoff? If one is consistently uploading, and not getting asked 'still working?' every four-day; a month is definitely enough time to finish an image. The definition of "consistently", if this changes, would need to be clarified in the guidelines because it's rather subjective otherwise. And, while this would rarely come into play, it'd just be for the lower ranks - imo warriors and above don't need any extra accommodations; they should know what they're doing at that point, and people have managed for years just fine.

Multiple Original Image Reserving
So I figured I'd bring this up since I got called out on it when I went to reserve the queen image I wanted to do. I've noticed that despite calling out some other users are being allowed to make two original images despite the multiple reserve being for the redos only. I realize that with so many new users joining it can get confusing but I figured I'd address this here. 21:01, March 8, 2019 (UTC)

Minor Characters Images
I'm loving all these chararts we are adding for the minor characters pages, but I'm noticing a problem regarding characters we cannot give a blank to. If you check Omen of the Stars page, I've been filling in The Fourth Apprentice and I'm not even done yet, and there are so many characters we cannot give a blank to.

So I'm wondering if we can find alternatives to these characters, instead of cluttering the pages with Noimage.png. For example, perhaps with Clan cats we can give them their Clan's symbol?

Spooky also mentioned a new blank (yay more!) where it's a general adult cat blank for cats we have no idea of their rank, but still have a description. The Super editions page is a great example. There is so many on there we have no idea their rank (or even Clan) and so we cannot give them a blank, despite having a description.

What do you think?<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  22:14, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

I don't know how I think about a generic blank...I think it's not too far off to just give them a blank closest to what they might be. Not a rank, that's PC, but saying a Clan cat gets a warrior blank if unknown, Tribe gets a cave-guard, etc. would work. <span style="">10:54 Mon Mar 11 2019

Could we just use the unknown residence blank when one gets approved? But in my opinion, as Breezey said just using a warrior blank, or cave-guard would work better. 18:15, March 11, 2019 (UTC

could a new ¨unknown rank¨ blank workWillowstep21 (talk) 14:02, March 12, 2019 (UTC)

I mean personally I don't think these characters have to get images, but if it's agreed that they should, I think whiskey's idea sounded good. I guess in case we would just vote on which blank would be considered "standard" in certain cases?

I don't think we should use pre-existing blanks for characters that don't have a cited rank. By using the warrior blank, it appears as if we're assuming that some Clan cat is a warrior when the character could just as well be an apprentice, queen, or elder for all the information that's in the book. Making one of these blanks "standard" distorts the actual meaning of the blank and would likely be misleading for readers who don't know all the reasoning behind the choice. I don't think it's necessary to give these characters images anyway because of how minor they are, but if we did I'd favor using an "unknown" blank instead. 19:50, March 12, 2019 (UTC)

Mean to get to this sooner, but I agree with what's said above ^. I personally don't think it's necessary to give the unknown rank minor characters images, and we already have much to do regardless. 19:56, March 12, 2019 (UTC)

Hmm I'd imo an "unknown" blank/adult cat blank could be used; ofc after all of this and probably in like 2020 at this point but rip

Yeah I don't think assuming a rank will work it'll just create confusion.<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:18, March 12, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, let's not assume ranks. That's a problem we've had before... If we entertain the topic, it really should be after everything else is done... which that's going to take a while as it is.

Alt Image Cites
So lately I've noticed a lot of alt images going uncited because it's usually clear what they're for (mostly for the official art or family tree alts), so the cites don't get prioritized and end up either slipping through the cracks or taking a really long time to actually get on the page. Since PCA has always had a policy of requiring cites for images, I feel like these shouldn't be any different. In the past, cites were required before the image could even be reserved, but considering the family tree and official art alts are voted on beforehand, maybe it should just be the alt's artist that's ultimately responsible for adding the cite if it's not already there by the time they post the image.

And while we're on the topic of alts, I actually had a suggestion. So despite the incorrect description being listed in the trivia section, for a lot of character it's not always clear which alt is for which mistake/cite, especially for characters with a lot of alts like bluestar, tawnypelt, firestar, and so on. I feel like a nice solution to this would be to add the description of the mistake along with the cite to the image's description. You can see an example of this in my personal image's description. If the alt had more than one cite, as is the case for some common mistakes like brackenfur, all the relevant cites would be added, the same way they are in the trivia section. This should make it a lot easier to tell what the alts are for, not only for the readers of the wiki but also for us, especially when trying to figure out if an alt is still required/valid, and whether it's in the same set as another alt. Thoughts?

I agree with this. I've removed an alt once because it had no cite for it and it almost became an argument until I was told what it was for. Please add a cite before reserving/posting an image!<font color="#0F52BA" face="Segoe">Stealth <font color="#FF0000" face="Segoe">f🔥re <font color="#0067A5" face="Teen">❤Warriors Forever!❤  21:20, March 12, 2019 (UTC)

I'd be fine with that, because even I lose track of what's what anymore. There are too many alts on the wiki anymore;;;

Date for redoing the warriors/kits
^ List of conflicts so far, from the discussions:

Saturdays - Jayce

Last week of March - Silver

Any weekday is questionable as a lot of us have school

Thoughts?

I mean if we're listing conflicts users have, my computer is in for repair for the next two weeks at least, so I'm not able to do any images.

My IB exams start from May 9-23, so I'd prefer if we didn't start the warriors/kits then.

I don't really have a conflict per se, but I'm going to be working 50+ hours in a few weeks starting in April, so I won't have much time <span style="">11:09, 3/19/2019