Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

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Official Designs/Manga Designs alts.
Before we got the new queen alts, we had offical art alts/manga alts; which have since then been removed/and or not redone. So im proposing an idea to bring them back.

Yes, i know that character designs are up to the the artists, but what im saying is that we could have chararts with the official art in the character pixels aswell. Not as the main image; but atleast on their page. Mainly so they will have more variety, while still including the designs the Illustrator created, but still having our own designs as the main images.

Also, Some characters could use alts like Silverstream. (Shown as Blue-gray tabby; Blue-gray is quite a few shades away from Silver.) and possibly Leafstar. (Shown as cream colored cat with brown tabby patches.)

We already have made chararts for characters as they were shown in TUG and CotC; (Onestar; Brown and white/cream alt), etc. And we already make alts on how some characters are shown in the black and white pages in the manga. I dont see why we cant have alts for the manga cover art aswell, since it is official art. Unless our designs are almost identical to the offical art, i think we should atleast add "official designs" alts to the character pages as they were shown in the pictures in the guides/mangas.

This will probably get shot down, but this has been bugging me for awhile. 23:01, September 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * This is a good idea, but the only thing I'd be worried about is copyright issues, because we don't own the official images. Unless you mean doing alternates /exactly/ as they are depicted in the books. 11:22 PM, Tue Sep 30, 2014

Yes, this is what i mean. Using our blanks, and try to match the official designs as much as possible; not using the offical images themselves from the books, but simply matching those same patterns to the best of our ability.-- 23:27, September 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * I like this. In fact, I was just about to post something about this for Leafstar (I just finished reading SD again), so I think this is a great idea. We'd just have to find all of the pictures, which could be hard, but, then again, it's not much different from finding sources from the books. 11:33 PM, Tue Sep 30, 2014

*nudges* Can we get some other comments on this please? 9:15 PM, Mon Oct 6, 2014

I think we did this for a while... quite a bit of time ago... But I think we could definitely do it again. Some people might not connect the official desc. and the manga ones, because they are so drastically different. And since we count the manga as canon, we should definitely use the desc. in those. It'd be a different matter if the content was not considered canon, I think. 22:18, 10/6/2014

Can we get some more opinions on this?-- 18:56, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

I think it's a reasonable idea. I dont know why they were ever discontinued; It still counts. Manga descriptions are used for manga-only cats (like Diesel), I don't see why they shouldnt be made into alts. 11:59, October 14, 2014 (UTC)

While I don't agree with Leafstar, because we do not know she is shown as brown and white and to say so is an assumption/plus it could be brown and cream for all we know- which is her confirmed description- we just show it differently, I would be okay with readding older images that were removed. Millie isn't shown in anywhere near the description she has, and we already have those alts done- they got removed for some odd reason.

I think this is a good idea, especially the official art part. For example Sol on the cover of outcast or wherever he appears, doesn't look like the charart he was made. --EosOfTheDawn (talk) 12:30, October 30, 2014 (UTC)

I think this is a great idea. There are a few books with alternate looking characters, especially Lionblaze. The Sight shows him as orange and Leafpool's Wish and The Forgotten Warrior looks more a dark golden-brown to me and his tabby stripes are not as visible. They also seem to like giving Hollyleaf short fur on The Sight and The Ultimate Guide than long fur on Hollyleaf's Story and Sunrise. --Stealthfire star (talk) 02:00, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

No, its been established time and time again that we do not make images based off of official art if they are not extremely different from their canon descriptions. Mainly because Wayne's style and pattern for the cats changes all the time. Millie's official description is completely different from her depiction in the manga, so yes I would agree that her alts should be readded to her page. Other alts based off of Cats of the Clans and The Ultimate Guide art are the same way - they have a completely different image than what they were shown in the book. For example, Boulder is a silver tabby, but in CotC he is blue, Heathertail is ginger, etc. I don't know why Silverstream's blue-grey alts were ever removed but they shouldn't have been as she's the same case as Boulder. But Lionblaze's depiction on FW is not two shades off of his description, and there's no reason to make a charart based off of a cover image if it's so similar to his given description. The same with Sol - he is described as a tortoiseshell tom, his chararts are tortoiseshell, and his cover image is tortoiseshell: he does not need an alt.

As for fur length, that's so minor and can easily be explained by seasons or even the cat's mood and doesn't deserve an entire alt dedicated to it. Half the time the authors themselves can't even keep track of the length of the cats fur in their narration.

As for manga alts, I believe since most of the time they are simplified versions of their canon description, they should not receive and entire image unless they are very different, such as Lionblaze appearing as a solid cat instead of a tabby. Basically, if they have a completely different pattern than in the books or they're a black cat or something and turn up white, things of that nature, that's when they should get a charart based off of the manga and should be entirely in greyscale. Otherwise the depictions of the cats in the mangas are based off of what the artist knows the description to be, hence why Millie is a rose colored tabby instead of silver - all he knew was that she was a tabby and went from there.

Now if you want to argue that we should include a gallery of scans of images from the books, that should probably go to another project, such as Characters, World, or even Reality, though I believe we don't do that do to copyright and a desire to keep copyrighted images on the wiki to just book covers for the most part. 15:08 Fri Oct 31 2014

I think with Hollyleaf she has short but thick fur, again though that could be explained with seasons. I think having the covers/official art on the pages is both a good and a bad idea, because of major description changes, but we also have to be careful if we show the official art because of copyright. I think in cases like Leafstar, her cover design and our design for her are very different from one another and she should have an alt for that. (only for the leader and anything earlier because she hasn't been described as a queen in anything but the manga (right?) 3:44 PM, Sun Nov 2, 2014

Oh no; that's not what im suggesting. Im not talking about adding the pages of pictures from the books; im simply saying we can try and match the designs given to the cats with our own blank, given they aren't close resembling our own designs. =) Showing the actual cover art and official art pictures would be copyright; so using our blanks instead and trying to match those designs seems like a much better way to avoid this.-- 17:07, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

I think you're missing what's been said about Leafstar. She's still shown as brown and cream, which is what her description is. She shouldn't get an alt for that- just because our chararts are different than what her comic description is (they're not manga, do not call them that, please), doesn't mean she gets an alt for artist's interpretation. Now, if she was shown as brown and white in those comics, that's another story. But, she was shown as brown and cream.

I understand that she is still shown as brown and cream, and I'm talking about the cover on SD, not comic/manga (which they have been referred to as manga so I see no reason to change that) which the pattern is much different. And besides, I was merely using her as an example, Snow. 5:48 PM, Sun Nov 2, 2014

We have no citation to her being on the cover of SkyClan's Destiny. No matter how obvious, we cannot assume. Again, she looks (They're not manga. Manga is of Japanese origin and reads from right to left. These are comics, as they read from left to right.)

No, I don't think we should require the manga and charart designs to match. If you want to make their images match then go ahead but otherwise no. It goes against our realistic design standards for characters and would waste countless amazing images. It simply wouldn't be worth it. 19:22 Sun Nov 2 2014

I don't think anyone said anything about making them match as the normal image, I'm almost positive that Breeze is saying that for some of the images that we have cover cites for we should have an alternate of that image (in whatever blank it should be, like leader or queen), whereas redoing the images we have right now would be dumb because they are amazing peices of art and deserve to be recognized. Should we just have a vote on this or something instead of (what seems like to me)  arguing? 8:31 PM, Sun Nov 2, 2014

Why? What's the point? The cover images are usually just simple headshots of the characters and you can see few markings besides whats on their face and chest. There's not nearly enough to make an alt out of. It'd be one thing if Lionblaze showed up as a black cat on a cover, but for just a shade's difference there's no point. That's even the standard for normal images with descriptions in the books. And what would we vote on? Like, you do realize that working on a wiki is mostly arguing your point, right? Also, if you're going say something don't cover it up with small text. 16:59 Thu Nov 6 2014

Thats true, but wheres the harm in making alts for the design's from books like CotC and TUG, and the manga's? (Given they aren't close resembling our own designs) They show the cats full image (or atleast most of them do) Cats like Sol and Millie, and some others have design's completely different than ours. I'm not saying we should replace our own designs, all im proposing is that we make alts to go into their character pixels with their original book given designs. Our design's will still be the main image, but the official patterned copies using our blanks will simply just be an alt. That way, we are still recognizing how the illustrator designed them, and also adding more variety.-- 22:55, November 8, 2014 (UTC)

I still think you're missing what we're saying. Sol is still a tortoiseshell, and a lot of the images in CotC and TUG are already showing a character's description. Just because it doesn't show what we have, doesn't mean it's not the same thing. It's just how Wayne decides to paint the characters. He doesn't know how we design them (to my knowledge), and he's given basic descriptions, so he just works with what he has. It doesn't make them anymore official than our designs. We go with what we know, and Wayne goes with what he knows. Millie's design in The Lost Warrior (the entire trilogy) is because the artist (I think anyways) only knew she was a tabby, nothing more, nothing less.

Alright. It was just an idea =). Sol used to have an alt for his design on Long Shadow's and TUG, but its since been removed? Same with Silverstream and Millie. Maybe we could just re-add the images that were made back then back to the character pages?-- 23:10, November 8, 2014 (UTC)

Sounds good, but if we do that we'll have to make alts for the other cats, or it wouldn't really make sense.--EosOfTheDawn (talk) 13:35, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

Alright, what I'm seeing with making chararts in general is given people a good view of a cat's looks because there are a lot of cats without pictures, and the Erin's get it mixed up sometimes. The Charart is supposed to be the picture of the cat. Sol for example, if you want something to do with Long Shadows picture or Ultimate Guide picture, than redo his pictures to make him look just like it, because they are supposed to be the picture of him. The two shades off idea is good, because blue-gray tabby is way off light silver-gray and black tabby (I like being specific) I certainly wouldn't recognise it as Silverstream if the books didn't point it out.

We are literally painting a picture of a cat for everyone, the correct one and closest we can as described in the books and since the graphic novels are part of the warriors series, we could use some of the pictures for inspiration for our pictures as honestly, I like Bramblestar's tabby pattern in the graphic novel than as the charart (sorry to the artist who made the pattern! I still like it!) Especially with the SkyClan and the Strangers series, picture Leafstar, what does she look like? Either way, it's most likely Brown and cream tabby, but which way? Simple brown and cream like the chararts, or cream with tabby patches like the graphic novels? I think we need to capture what's most memorable about a cat's looks in the graphic novels and put them as charart.

Official alts are too confusing to me but graphic novel alts for mistaken description, that's the same as the books mistakenly calling them a different colour. We also look to the books for cats' descriptions, so why not look to the graphic novels for descriptions too? As long as it matches the description, we can draw it up on a blank and people can easily recognize it.

That's my opinion in a not-so-organized essay that I suddenly typed up. Agree or disagree, this is what I think of this. --Stealthfire star (talk) 02:19, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

The chararts aren't canon descriptions, though. Those chararts are how the artist sees them- Sol is a prime example. We are not required to match the images given in Cats of the Clans, Code of the Clans, The Ultimate Guide, Battles of the Clans, or any other book cover/picture of a cat. These include the graphic novels. Sol's charart is what he's called- a tortoiseshell tom. Bramblestar is a dark brown tabby (his leader is my image and I'm slightly offended since I had a pattern to match), Leafstar is brown and cream, ect. It's kinda silly and honestly pointless to change chararts based on matching their "canon" descriptions- which the graphic novels aren't even that. They're grayscaled and we do not know what colors they are. Plus, those patterns are more often than not over simplified and really not the best idea to match. Unless they are a drastic change from their written description, then we don't do anything with it. I quite like Leafstar's pattern in the SkyClan graphic novels myself, but that doesn't mean I think we should redo her chararts. That's pretty counterproductive and a waste of a perfectly acceptable set.

Those pictures are not "the picture of a cat". Wayne is given a basic description, and that's how he chooses to paint them. The other artists involved help too- making their own patterns based on the lists they're given. We are not bound by those basis lists, not when we have detailed written ones we can use. tldr; I really don't think we should change the chararts we already have for the overly-basic descriptions we have in the graphic novels- the designs aren't official in the least.

How to make Charart?
I hope this isn't too stupid of a question (I'm just a kit), but how do you make charart? Do you take a blank character pixel and color it or something or what? FireTail101 (talk) 23:27, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

That's the most basic way. The link below is the tutorial page and that will help a lot: http://warriors.wikia.com/wiki/Warriors_Wiki:Charart/Apprentice_Tutorials --Stealthfire star (talk) 23:32, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks so much!FireTail101 (talk) 23:33, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

you're welcome. --Stealthfire star (talk) 23:39, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

Do you install gimp or pixir to make an image? FireTail101 (talk) 23:43, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

There are many art programs you can use. GIMP is really popular and pixir is a good one. I personally like PAINT.NET. Depends on what you like or have. --Stealthfire star (talk) 23:55, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

Leader - Deputy
Do you think being a Clan Leader is proof that they were a deputy? Just a thought. Stealthfire star (talk) 21:24, December 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * This would go to PC, but since it's already here, I'll just answer it. No, it is not. Flowerstar is a prime example of this. In most cases, the deputy becomes leader, but we've had at least one case where that hasn't happened.

Alright, I see. Thanks anyway! --Stealthfire star (talk) 21:37, December 11, 2014 (UTC)

StarClan kit subcategory
I was thinking we could have a sub category of StarClan kits in the StarClan cat section. It is more or so related to the charart part of the character pages but I think it could be easier for people searching for the characters with a StarClan kit charart (especially for those at Project Charart) I'll don't mind if this is rejected though. XD I just thought this could be useful. --Stealthfire star (talk) 01:02, December 9, 2014 (UTC)

If PCA wants to put this on the kit images, they can do it, but a starclan kit isn't an actual "official" rank, so they wouldn't be getting this category. 02:28, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

I'd be up for adding that to the images themselves, honestly. It would keep better track of the images since while they are StarClan cats, they are also using the StarClan kit lineart. Shall we move this discussion to PCA, in that case?

Yep, you can go ahead and move this to PCA. 02:39, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

(above section was from PC) Okay, it's been moved, and I like her idea of adding the categories. It seems to be a bit easier, and we can only get more organized, imho.