Warriors Wiki talk:Charart

=For Approval= Take it to the approval page

=Tweaked= Take it to the tweak page

=Discussion=

New Proposition
When user a is asked if they're still working on their charart that say, hasn't been uploaded for over five days, they are expected to upload within the next 48 hours. This happens too often without a good reason. Chararts are left up for approval, not worked on, artist is asked if their still working on it, they reply yes, and they don't upload for another week. Honestly, you shouldn't have to be asked if you're still working on your charart unless you were away and unable to bring your computer with you/you don't have internet connection. So, the time limit for chararts without work should be judged from when the artist last uploaded the charart, not the last time they commented that they're still working on the charart. Thoughts? 16:05, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, this gives others a chance to work on the image if they wish, sounds fair, you want to be here, you have to work. Maple♥ pool  Mischief brewing 16:07, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

Mhmm, I agree also. If you don't work on your image, why bother bein' here? 16:58 Mon Dec 26

I already do this unless someone supplies a decent reason for taking a while. And even then I advise them to hand it off. 23:09, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

I thought this was already the rule, so I agree. Breeze whisker  23:12, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

I agree too. It's fair. If they can't be bothered to help us, we shouldn't be bothered to help them. 23:40, Mon, Dec, 26, 2011

Can we also make it where if a user has to be asked more than twice if they're working on an image (Like, they don't work on it for 6 days, come back and reupload, then don't work on it for another 6 days, and so on) they have their image declined? People shouldn't be able to just upload everytime they get asked that and have no problem. It takes up space, and is just plain annoying honestly. So yeah, just a thought. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  02:32, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. A truly devoted user shouldn't have to be asked even once if they're still working on a charart unless they've given an honest reason to be away. 02:34, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Pale and Scarlet above. 05:00, Wed, Dec, 28, 2011

A proposition concerning project vernacular
This is a rather simple proposition concerning one name used in PCA.

I'd like it if Senior Warriors could no longer be called leads.

You see, it may seem like a silly thing to want to change, but here's the reasoning: words are powerful. When a senior warrior is called a lead, it sends the message to new or prospective users that we are in charge, which we are not. We merely have been recognized by the project to have a decent amount of experience, which is reflected in the title of Senior Warrior, and are given the responsibility of approving or declining images. To call us leads is to put us too far above the rest of the project, and as a senior warrior I'm uncomfortable with that.

Comments? 19:30, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

So, do you want there to be no senior warriors at all? I think we just help out the leader and deputy. They can't approve every image or add in every new user all on their own. No, we aren't in charge, but we could shake off the status of being a lead. We'll still be senior warriors and uphold all the responsibilites of being one, but we don't lead the project. I see your point, and I'm open to see what other users have to say. 19:50, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

What gave you the idea that that is what I wanted? No, I just want us to cease being called leads, that's all. 20:01, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Personally, I don't care either way. But the keystrokes to type "lead" are a whole lot easier than typing "Senior Warrior," which is probably how the term came about. I think it's up to the individual person as to what they prefer to type, but if you mean official guidelines and things like that, I agree that the official term should probably be used to make it sound more...official. Breeze whisker  20:05, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. Why? Senior warriors ARE in charge., Not as much as leader or deputy, but they still are high ranks. At first I had a lot more to say but now I'm dead. XP 20:07, December 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * This point of view is both incorrect and outright harmful to the project. The leveled listing of the project was always intended to show experience with the tasks of the project, and to assign extra responsibilities to users. It does not indicate that anyone is in the charge of the project. This is because the Project Members should be leading the project via consensus. Leader, Deputy and Senior Warriors only have extra responsibilities. That's all that sets them apart from the rest of the project. Perhaps it was a mistake on my part to borrow from the books for cutesy names for project membership, as people have an unhealthy tendency to take it too seriously. 16:24, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

You hate me, don't you Shell? Jk. I honestly don't care what SW's are called. Just as long as we have them. 20:10, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Nah, don't hate anyone. XD But yeah. Senior warrior's aren't in charge, it's arrogant of us to think we are. We're just here to help guide people along and keep the project moving while contributing to it, and that's the extent of it. 20:13, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

I kinda agree with Icy, and at the same time, I don't really care all that much. XD I think we do kinda have a right to be called leads, but I really don't care all that much if that changes. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  00:19, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

I disagree, since it's a whole lot easier just to type leads. Keeping in mind that "lead" technically means "senior warriors, deputy, and leader", it's a whole lot easier to type. You're right Shelly, we're not in charge, but we do possess a higher rank (for lack of a better word) than warriors and apprentices. We have the power to approve or decline images, to decide on CBA, and accept new users into the project. Disclaimer: Remember that in no way are senior warriors better than other users just because we have privileges. 00:35, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

I really don't care either way I never call you guys leads anyway I usually just say SW, so really I don't care. But they are 'leader's' of the project so it makes sense to call them leads. 02:16, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, SW is a lot easier to type then lead(s). It's just 2 letters! I agree with you Shelly, and I can see why it annoys you. You're not in charge and don't exactly have the right to lead this project. What you do have the rights too and warriors and apprentices can't access, is declining, approving images, CBAing, creating voting forums, etc. Those are the things a leader/deputy would do though, but the only other things leaders/deputies can do that you can't is annoucing new deputies/leaders, and making the final decision for the project. (i probally missed a lot more though.) 23:44, Thu, Dec, 29, 2011

Just a random bit of input from me, concerning another reason the word "lead" shouldn't be used. It's misleading in more ways than just what it implies. It also creates "insider" language that makes the project seem more exclusive and special. It's completely non-intuitive (SW=Senior Warrior is not only intuitive, but a common bit of Warriors Fanon Vernacular). I personally hate the use of the word "lead" by this project.L/D/SW is more descriptive and would at least be intuitive to new members mores than the "Lead". And honestly, why not just type out Leader, Deputy and Senior Warriors. It's not like we pay for bandwidth by the character or anything. Say what you mean, don't use lingo to say what you mean. You could also.. You know... Add the Leader and Deputy to Senior Warrior list (which they technically should be eligible for, anyways, and just use the word SW... It would also save time when a person leaders the Leader or Deputy position in the project, too. 16:20, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

I honestly don't see what the fuss is about, as it's only a word that isn't supposed to be an easier way to type out Senior Warrior/Deputy/Leader, but I'll run with it. How about we call them "Senior Members"? SMs for short? That doesn't seem like it would be difficult to type out, and it doesn't seem completely unintuitive. I dunno. Just a compromise, maybe? 21:58 Sun Jan 1

I'd rather not combine everyone into one category. We're all really not that different, but there should still be a distinguishable line between senior warrior, deputy, and leader. I feel like if we call everyone senior warrior, we're losing what we have as a project. That sounds really stupid, now that I'm reading it again, but I'll stand by it. 00:59, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not suggesting that we change the rank title. I just suggest that we no longer be called leads, that's all. 01:13, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

I know, Shelly, I was referring to other suggestions. 01:29, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Wildheart. Senior Members seems like a reasonably good name. 00:36, Tue, Jan, 3, 2012

Gone?
I put myself on the vacation list about two weeks ago, and have not been able to put up a more accurate statement of how long I'll be gone... but now my username is not on the project apprentice list. I'm not trying to be annoying, I just don't understand. Can someone please explain what happened? 13:38, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

If you are inactive for two weeks or more, you are automatically removed. If you're more active again I'm sure a lead will add you. 13:40, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Continuing Discussion
The discussion to develop a screening process has been continued here. I think I've designed a basic structure that will please the project, but I want as many as people as possible to help perfect it. Thank you! 04:13, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Tying Up Lose Ends
Miss me? While I can't say I miss being a member, it's certainly nostolgic being here. I never formally left, but I think it's pretty clear that I'm not around anymore. I don't think I left on the best of terms. Well... I appologize. I don't really know what I'm trying to get at, I guess just an actual goodbye. It's funny to think that it been so long since I joined... almost three years. Oh god my first charart was attrocious, does anyone remember my original version of Spiderleg? I've grown so much as an artist since then, although I'm still not very good. The truth is that I'm just not interested in charart anymore, or Warriors for that matter. I actually came on to read the info for The Forgotten Warrior figuring I might as well see what happens to the cats I've been following since I was a little kid but... Maybe I'll go pick it up next time I'm near the bookstore for old times sake.

Anyway, enough rambling, goodbye you guys. It's been a nice few years. Darkhallows  Enter the cave? 09:32, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Also, why did you guys change the apprentice blanks and not the horrible rogue blanks? xD Darkhallows   Enter the cave? 09:34, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

We're working on possibly tweaking the rouge blanks xD. Bye Dark, we'll miss you. 12:23, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

May StarClan light your path, Dark. 15:42, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Aww, well I respect your choice, but you know that we're gonna miss you! Take care and hope to maybe see you again on here someday 15:55, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

I remember you bein' leader when I first joined. (Never posted any art for 3 months) Anyways, bye Dark, may StarClan light your path. 16:58 Fri Dec 30

You were a great member, Dark! Good luck in life! 18:54, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

You were one of the best leaders, bye. 19:56, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Although I didn't really get to know you, I hear you were one of the best leaders in PCA. So bye. 23:44, Fri, Dec, 30, 2011

Bye Dark. You were the leader when I first joined. You were an amazing leader. You will be greatly missed. 15:57, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Bye, Dark. Never really met you, but I heard a bit about you. :) We wish you farewell!  18:42, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

A Question for Alts
I've been looking over a couple of character pages, and I've been looking down at the character art section. For Firestar, I noticed he had a golden alt. I was wondering if that golden alt should be a tabby, because Firestar is a tabby, and if he was mistakenly called golden, he would be a golden tabby? I was wondering about this for all of the alts, too. 15:45, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

I kept telling Mint to make him a tabby when he was doing Fire's alt. I think it should be as it is a form of ginger, I'm pretty sure 15:56, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure if I've come across a golden cat without it being a tabby, so I think it'd just be the same rule as the gingers. 23:48, Fri, Dec, 30, 2011

Yeah, I haven't either. So maybe if there is a golden cat without stripes we should tweak it? 03:14, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

I guess so. 00:41, Tue, Jan, 3, 2012

Just another notice
Okay, there's been some changes. I won't be on until probably next week, the most is until February. My computer has a virus and because I don't have an antivirus disc, the guy's lookin' for it. 20:10, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, see you then Icey, hope you can get on when you can! 23:52, Fri, Dec, 30, 2011

Multiple Alternates
In Cats of the Clans, Graystripe is shown as dark gray. Also Mudfur was described with a dark pelt in CP, and Bluestar was described as a pale gray she-cat as well as a gray she-cat at Crookedpaw's first Gathering, also in CP. Would they get alternates for that? Bluestar11796 21:38, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Graystripe: no. Mudfur: if his main description just says brown, no. If it says something like light brown, then yes. Bluestar: I think so. 22:35, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

For Bluestar, it was just the lighting, Bluepaw said so herself. She said she looked more blue in daylight, so that would mean it was just the lighting. I don't think she'd get an alt in that case. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  22:48, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Oi, now I remember Paley! I checked Mudfur's page, yeah I guess he'd get one. He's the only one out of them. 22:51, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Unless it was the lighting in that case as well. What time of day was it when he was described as such? 22:53, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

I seem to recall someone saying that if the cat was just brown, and he went to a lighter or darker shade (brown to light brown or brown to dark brown), then he wouldn't get an alt. The only way he would was if he went dark to light or vice versa. We could chalk dark brown up to being part of his description and tweak his images, though. 04:56, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Oblivion on that. I personally have having alts for different shades, so id be happy if we could just add it to the description. 22:21, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

His description says he is light brown. So he does not need tweaked. 00:48, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I fail. I thought it was just brown because I never thought to look. However, I don't really see him getting an alternate for being described as the same colour, just a few shades off. I personally really don't want to see that. 00:51, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

@ Paley: she was also described as a dark gray she-cat on the page right before that one, so maybe not a light alt., but probably dark. Bluestar11796 06:09, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

But what about a cat who is described as light and dark. Let's say a new cat called Morningsplash is a tortoiseshell in the alligences, is called "light" on page 53 and then dark on page 76. What happens then? I think that Mistystar and a couple others have been in that situation. 02:28, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Seriously, guys. We need to look at the lighting at the point in which he was called dark. If the mistake occured at night or when it was stormy, it would not be a mistake. 02:31, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

I was just about to say that, Shelly. Can we get the page number? I searched "dark brown" in the browse inside and nothing came up for Mudfur. 02:33, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Crookedstar's Promise, page 477, "Mudfur dark pelt moved beside the nest." And sorry, Bluestar (known as Bluepaw at the time) wasn't called dark gray; she was called just gray. Crookedstar's Promise, page 161, "The gray cat shifted her paws." And for pale gray, CP, pg. 160, "Watch out!" A pale gray she-cat with ThunderClan scent turned and hissed at him a he fell against her." Bluestar11796 18:23, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, Mudfur's pelt was dark because he was in a den. And Bluestar's pelt was pale gray because of the moonlight. 23:42, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

So no alts? 01:45, Thu, Jan, 5, 2012

Right, no alts. 03:34, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Possibility for Dovewing alt.
Alright, so we all know that the chapter pictures usually depict main characters (note:usually). So, there's a picture that depicts a gray cat that is perhaps peering over a log. This was most likely Dovewing (Dovepaw when she was first shown in the picture). However, the picture has a paler paw, a pale pattern around the eyes, and a lighter muzzle. I know that there's no real proof this was Dovewing, but it's a possibility. If you disagree, I understand, I'm battling it out between myself as well. Please at least consider this. 17:23, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

No, I don't believe that she would have an alt. for this. Like you said, we don't really know if that is her or not. We would need proof if that is actually her. 18:37, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind, I've got something better than that. The cover of The Fourth Apprentice. Dovepaw was depicted the same way, although we can't be sure of the paw. 00:10, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think that'd get an alt. because it is relatively minor, just a couple of shades of difference. Breeze whisker  01:05, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Suggestion for a new blank
I know I posted this in my recent comments, but I think it would be really cool to see a "prisoner charart" and a new blank for it. Cats who where prisoners in another clan (this applies for clan cats only like Yellowfang and Brokenstar) would have an image with it's head bowed like it's sulking NOT (sorry if you guys think i'm yelling, I just want to prove a point.) like bowing to someone where it's head is nearly touching the ground but something like where like an apprentice is being scolded by a leader. :D That's just a suggestion, so it's okay if you guys think it isn't nessasary, but like I said before it would be really cool. :) Cats that would have a "prisoner charart" would be cats like Yellowfang, Brokenstar(even though he was called an elder while he was prisoner, he was a prisoner), Hollyleaf (that time in Dark River I think where she was prisoner in Riverclan and squirrelflight came to rescue her), Ivypool (held prisoner in I think Fading Echos or Night Whispers in Shadowclan), Rainstorm (the fourth apprentice where he was in Thunderclan), Mistystar, Stonefur, Feathertail, and Stormfur in the darkest hour and if there are some cats I'm missing them too. :) Think about it please! And like I said it's okay if there shouldn't be one. :) 02:21, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

I don't really think we've seen enough prisoners in the series to warrant this... Brokentail, Yellowfang, Stonefur, Mistyfoot, Featherpaw, Stormpaw, Sol, and Ivypaw... eight cats don't warrant a blank in my eyes. 02:30, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

Rainstorm was decidedly not a prisoner, by the way. 02:31, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

What about the healers, though? There's only four we've ever seen. Though I don't really feel we need another new blank 02:33, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

I think blanks are only nessessary for the rank of the character in the allegiances. Since I can only think of ten cats for this I'm not really sure about this. Most cats that are prison are only prisoner for a few chapters. Plus, sorta tired of talking about new/tweaked blanks. Sorry about the edit conflict x_x 02:34, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah I agree if any should get blanks it should be cats for the Great clans, or even other main animals, like Midnight. 03:23, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

Okay! :) 15:38, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

Someday, I might see doing something like that, but right now there's enough other charart waiting that I don't see a point to creating a blank for something that isn't really a rank. Maybe someday, when Warriors' Run is up and they're not getting published anymore, maybe. Becuase the constant flow of new characters and character changes will stop. 16:25, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Erase tweaks
I was just wondering if I could go through the tweak week list and delete the ones that are already being worked on/reserved, or finished, it gets confusing with the tweaks that are already finished and the ones that still need work. 15:32, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure if warriors are allowed to do that. But I definitly do that myself too. 17:23, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

Certainly! If you'd like to go through that whole mess of work, feel free. This also brings up a point that's been brewing in my mind for a while. When a users reserves a tweak, strike it out, it'd make it easier to see so that when a lead archives the charart after the tweak, they don't have to search through the whole list. (Even with cntrl F, it takes so long....) Thoughts? 21:06, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

YES, Scarlet. It's really annoyingly tedious to find all the ones that haven't been taken off the list even after a senior member (haha new lingo?) has archived the section on the tweak page. I agree with this suggestion wholeheartedly. 22:05 Sun Jan 1

Should we do the same thing for the images that were redone? 23:06, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yep. Definitely. And anything that has been finished and approved can be removed from the list - you don't have to be a senior member to do that. 00:17 Mon Jan 2

Okay I went through the entire 'needing to be tweaked' section, I think someone else did the others. -- 16:23, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Mousefang, Nightfur, and Oakstep
Poking my nose in things again. ^^ Would these three qualify for loner chararts, seeing as Spiderstar and Brackenheart got loner images? Sky-Jedi  You will talk to me. 02:13, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I think so. That makes sense. 02:19, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Aren't we redoing the loner blanks, though? 03:27, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

If they do get the images, I agree with Ivy. We should wait for the blanks. 03:28, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Good point. -goes to remove her reservation-... 03:32, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Change "Lead Meetings" into "Project Meetings"?
Some of you noticed the recent small argument that occured in the comments of Atelda's SW nomination. In it, Breezewhisker brought up a very good point: one of the biggest problems in this project is lack of communication. I think this could partially be solved by ending "Lead Meetings" (meetings limited to only senior warriors and up) and change them to "Project Meetings". We do have "the next chat" messages at the top of this page, but they are barely attended and haven't been scheduled since October. From here on, I think that important meetings usually only announced to senior warriors, the deputy, and leader, should be planned a week in advance, at least, and should be announced in the project news section, allowing any member of the project that wishes to attend to have a chance to do so.

The senior warriors, deputy, and leader cannot represent the majority of the project. If a majority of the project were allowed to participate in the more important meetings of members, I feel communication of ideas in the project would be much easier. Of course, there's much more that needs to be done about this besides what I'm proposing, but I feel that this sttep could be helpful. 16:08, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree. If all (at least most) of the project's members participated in meetings, we would get more opinions on what would come in the future for PCA. 16:21, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

I think this'd be a good idea. It can be a bit disorientating when the senior members decide something and you're like, "okay, where'd that come from?" Breeze whisker  00:10, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. And there's also the fact that apprentices and warriors are perfectly capable of forming good ideas, and they should be able to voice them in these meetings. In any case, nothing should be decided as final in these meetings. All things must be done with project consensus, and not just decided by 11 members. 00:12, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

Sure Im all for letting everyone contribute to them. Its not like they were ever closed to anyone either, I just got intouch with the leads because its the fastest and easiest way to get a discussion going. As for the planning in a week in advance, doesnt really work. We tried it with the other Porject mettings, and i think we had like...1? Not even that? The talk page of a forum is pretty much the only way to get the whole project a fair chance to contribute, so really, the chats shouldnt happen at all. 00:22, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

Alright then, you make a good point. Shall we just end lead meetings? Honestly, we can't decide things there for the project. Yeah, if we want to just chat we can use the IRC, but to schedule a meeting specifically for the purpose of making these decisions, some of which are finalized without consent of the project, isn't something we need to be doing. 00:25, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

I think planning things in advance is acctually a healthy idea. Everyone isn't going to make every meeting. Just set a minimum number of members that must show up before a meeting will be valid (like... 50%+ of the project, or something). More people will show up if they know about the meetings in advance, and it gives everyone a fair chace to at least know about the meeting (I think setting the date a week in advance is ideal. Or setting them for the same day each month or something). You'll be impressed by how planning them in advance will improve your attendance. 00:44, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

I agree all discussions should be held at the talk page. I rarely go on the IRC anyways, and when I do, no one is on. <span style="">00:58, Tue, Jan, 3, 2012

I don't think you need to end having meetings. Sometimes it's easier to throw out ideas if everybody is chatting back and forth at the same time. I think as long as any and all ideas are run through with the project, either in the forum or on the talk page, the percentage of attendance doesn't matter. So really, the meetings become more of a brainstorming session than a decision-making time. Breeze whisker  01:29, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

was it ever really closed off? I mean, it's called a lead meeting, yes, but were only leads allowed? I think the chats should stay, and they should stay on IRC, but maybe we can just make a new talk page section saying we're planning to have a meeting in X number of days? Chances are, it will still mostly be leads in there, but at least we'll be informing the project, and giving them the opportunity to join in. If we have to wait for a lot of the project to get on, we're never gonna have the meetings. So yeah, that's what I think would be best, we don't have to go with it of course. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  05:59, January 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Even if it wasn't formally closed to people not of Leader, Deputy or Senior Warrior (I personally will not call them "Leads". It's a misleading term that leads to confusion about the ranks and what they mean), using the term "Lead Meeting" implies exclusivity. 16:22, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

DJ: All final decisions should happen on the talk pages, and an opportunity for comment pre-decision making via the talk pages should also happen. Chats are great for brainstorming and initial planning, but finalization should happen through the wiki itself, creating a paper-trail that's indelible. 16:22, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah getting rid of them would help the project become more of a community, but why don't we just add project meetings and have them every month and have a lead meeting every other month or so. 23:27, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

How about if you're on the IRC or chat with another PCA member, you can think of ideas for PCA if you want, and then consult with the rest of the members on the talk page? <span style="">01:52, Thu, Jan, 5, 2012

This is a good idea, but one thing concerns me. Timezones. I know the large majority of the Wiki users live in the US, but I live in the UK, and there are timezones all over America too. We would have to make these chats timezone friendl. 10:13, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

One option for dealing with timezones would just be to vary the time every meeting, giving different people a chance to be at each meeting. No decisions should be made by meetings. They should be tools for preparing proposals to solve problems. Proposals should be written and presented in talk/forum following meetings for final (all inclusive) discussion anyways. 15:15, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Nettlesplash Apprentice
Hi I don't know if apprentices are allowed to do charart but I was sorta wanting to do Nettlesplash as an apprentice, because he is a solid colored cat I believe and he doesn't have a new apprentice image and If anyone isn't doing him/requested to do him I would like to do him. 20:32, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Apprentices can do chararts. All you have to do is go to the PCA page and reserve him on the reservation table. Just make sure that no one else has reserved him (i.e. Ctrl F). 20:37, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Dewstar(leaf) would like to join Charart
Hi, this is Dewstar and I would like to join the Charart project(s). I am not sure how the apprentices, warriors, sr warriors, deputies and leaders work, but I know how to make Chararts and make them well. I think I will be able to help with making the pictures.

Just a couple of questions:

How do the apprentices, warriors, sr warriors, deputies and leaders work (which rank would I be if I joined?)

Do you have to reserve a character for yourself to make a Charart? Dewstar(leaf) 23:08, January 2, 2012 (UTC)<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">҉ <span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 204); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">҉ <span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 255); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">D <span style="color: rgb(153, 51, 255); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">e <span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 255); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">w <span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 204); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">s <span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 153); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">t <span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 102); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">a <span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">r <span style="color: red; line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">( <span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">l <span style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">e <span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 0); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">a <span style="color: rgb(153, 204, 0); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">f <span style="color: rgb(102, 153, 0); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">) <span style="color: rgb(0, 153, 0); line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">҉ <span style="color: green; line-height: 115%; font-size: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">҉ 22:57, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not a SW, D or L and can't you in, but I can answer those questions. The apprentices work by creating art and commenting in project discussion and critiquing other images, trying to earn their posistion for a warrior. Warriors do the same as apprentices but can tweak/redo images. Senior Warriors can do the same as Warriors but they can add users in, and are Senior Members. The deputy can do the same as SW but is second in command, and the Leader can do the same as the D but is in charge of the project. <span style="">01:15, Tue, Jan, 3, 2012

Okay, thank you!Dewstar(leaf) 01:52, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

Question
Please, pardon my newbness in the following question. See in the T&S series, Rowanclaw was shown in greyscale with a black marking on his forhead, and so, me being a noob on things like this, would that count for a alt, or no? And the ref is Into the Woods, pages 21*First Panel* page,23*Bottom Panel* 24, and 25. Maple♥ pool  Mischief brewing 23:30, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

Oh yes, definitely. Just make it grey with those same markings. 23:53, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

Yes he get an alt, but make him the colour of hiks app image. We agreed that if the colour is unknown it goes to the cited colour with the alt pattern. 01:06, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

That doesn't seem too natural, though. A ginger cat with a black marking? Why not just make him grey? 01:10, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Just make it really dark ginger. Because if the ginger tabbies depicted without stripes didnt get gray alts, neither should he, and im not willing to get into the whole debate about that again. 01:12, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

This is different, though. He's not shown as ginger without stripes, he's shown in greyscale with a random marking on his forehead. I'm not trying to debate with you, I'd just rather see an alternate with a large difference. 01:20, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, a ginger cat with black stripes is impossible. It is likely they meant a different color for Rowanclaw. I say silver with black stripes. 03:33, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

No, its like not a tabby, its just, like a black smudge on his head. Maple♥ pool  Mischief brewing 02:32, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Stormkit (SC)
I was looking Stormkit (SC) and I saw that the patches were brown. And it's supposed to be ginger. Is that like a tweak or a redo? Because that is really not ginger. Squishee   I am le Puppeh!  01:23, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

They look ginger to me. <span style="">01:24 Wed Jan 4

Blah edit conflict xP They look ginger too me too, but light. If anything, a tweak. 01:26, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Okay I still have the image from when Icey helped me, and I color picked it and it's brown in my opinion. Sorry. Squishee   I am le Puppeh!  01:28, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, it looks fine. In reality, ginger cats aren't totally orange. They're more of an orangey-brown, and Stormkit is fine. I'll wait for another opinion before shooting you down completely, but it looks fine to me. <span style="">01:30 Wed Jan 4

Okay sorry but when i double checked it is totally brown. I mean no doubt about it. Squishee   I am le Puppeh!  01:31, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

It probably isn't totally brown. Dustpelt is brown, and there is a difference. 01:32, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

It's not brown Sandstorm. Compare it to a photo of a pale ginger cat. Ginger has different shades, and that's one of them. It'd be like saying Flowerstem isn't ginger, which she is, just cause she's a different shade. So Stormkit is fine as is. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  03:02, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

It looks perfectly ginger to me. <font face="Cambria" size="2" color="blue" >Sky- <font face="Cambria" size="2" color="blue"> Lather. Rinse. Obey. 03:04, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Its light brown-ginger to me, but everyone has a different brightness of monitor or so.. 15:34,January 4,2012 (UTC)

Dwindling Chararts
Almost all the chararts have been made, reserved or are currently for approval. I remember, two years ago, we were allowed to have two chararts reserved, but was soon changed to one (thus, today's policies). I would like to pose a question and start a discussion. What happens when all the chararts are made? The warriors, senior warriors, deputy, and leader all can tweak and re-do images. But what happens to the apprentices (like myself) who are stuck only doing original artwork until they become warriors? Everytime a book would come out, there would probably be fighting, competition, and hostility, trying to get their reservations up. So, I must ask my fellow PCA members: 'do we have a plan for this scenario? ' 09:04, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Well really there's not much drama when a new book comes out usually. And there's always alts to do if you look hard enough. The project slows down inbetween books, yes, but then it speeds right back up again. I think once the books are over, the PCA will be closed, but till then, I think we'll just have those slow bits, like now. We're gonna have a new series pretty soon, so I'm sure we'll have plenty to do. But for now, you'll just have to be quick to get a chararts. And maybe, just maybe, tweaking will open up to apprentices too if we slow down that much, and still have a lot of tweaks to make. I'm not completely sure, but I think we'll be fine. It's nothing to worry about as far as I see it, but that's just me. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  09:22, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

We still have tons of apprentices to do, and I thought we were redoing the loner blank? And after that, the rogue will probably be redone as well xD And like Paleh said, we're going to have a new series on our hands pretty soon. I think we're fine. 21:58, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Okay then. For some reason I feel political. 22:23, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Remember when the wait for TFW was happening? There was barely any images to do, other then alts, but we survived. <span style="">01:56, Thu, Jan, 5, 2012

Also, for the reservations thing, if you can find two apprentices to do, you can reserve two. And after the apprentices are done we might be tweaking/redoing the loner blanks, so we're fine for image right now. <span style="">01:59 Thu Jan 5

There's also the fact that art is never finished, only abandoned. I'm sure eventually, when the series does come to a halt, the tweaks system will expand. Frankly, there's more to the wiki than just art. When the art train dries up, the project will shift to maintenance mode and that'll be that. But we're looking at something that's (at the currently time) at least three years off, assuming the Erins announce no new series following those that are announced. 02:10, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Furled Bracken?
This has probably been brought up before, but I do want to know the answer, so I'll ask it now. Should Furled Bracken get a Leader image, a Healer one, or should a new blank be made for him? It seems wrong to leave him as just a Sharpclaw, even if he is the only leader of the ancients that we've seen. We had a healer blank for Stoneteller back when he was the only Healer we'd seen, so why not Furled Bracken? Just wondering. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  09:29, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

We had this debate a few years ago.....the leader then, Bramble, decided for him to not get a healer blank. -- 10:01, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

He was a leader, but not in the literal sense. There was no deputy, no medicine cat, and barely the same apprentices we know now. He may have led a group of cats, but they weren't a true Clan. I don't think he should. 21:59, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Oblivion on this. It's kind of like Scourge. he led a group of cats, but didn't get a leader charart. 22:01, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

If he got one it should be a healer, but I don't think he should, also didn't he give the position to Stone Song? 23:11, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, making an Ancient Leader blank would be fine with me, really. Could be fun. 23:40, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Are the Ancients like BloodClan? If they are and Furled Bracken gets one, would that qualify Scourge too, if they're not a true Clan? <font face="Cambria" size="2" color="blue" >Sky- <font face="Cambria" size="2" color="blue"> Lather. Rinse. Obey. 23:44, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

What about an outside-the-Clan-leader blank? Probably not that name... ♫Purplemoon♪   2012! The end of the world?  23:46, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

No, no, I didn't mean like Scourge. Scourge's "Clan" are just a bunch of rogues kept together by fear of Scourge. However, if we do make a blank for the Ancient leaders, then how many would we have? Off the top of my head, I can think of two. 01:04, January 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * is dumb* I is a good idea though, but I spose it wpuld have to wait like the prisoner blank. (if it's agreed to be done.) <font face="Cambria" size="2" color="blue" >Sky- <font face="Cambria" size="2" color="blue"> Lather. Rinse. Obey. 01:06, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Why not make a Ancients leader blank? Like I said, we had a Healer blank when there was only one healer. The ancients are an organized group, unlike Bloodclan, so he should get some kind of blank. And why would it have to wait? It'd only be like 2 chararts to make.... ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  03:13, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. Furled Bracken and Stone Song were a different rank than just a sharpclaw, they should get either a Healer or another separate blank. Breeze whisker  03:16, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Didn't they know about herbs, though? I don't see why we shouldn't use the healer blank for them. 03:31, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Would they really count as healers though? Cause Half Moon was the first Stoneteller. Are Stonetellers and healers kinda different things? ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  09:54, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

hi
hi may i join this project i would like to make charartsRainleaf of Riverclan 23:59, January 4, 2012 (UTC)Rainleaf of Riverclan 23:58, January 4, 2012 (UTC)Rainleaf of Riverclan

Of course! Check out the Guidelines if you have any questions, or ask an experienced member. I'll add you in as an apprentice, and welcome to PCA! 00:03, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

i would like to join
hello, im tigerstarrules and i would like to join.

i have made chararts for people, and gotten really good feedback. thankyou Tigerstarrulesyes he does shank you 02:32, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Too many senior warriors? Try not enough.
Well, the proposal train must continue rolling. You guys may notice a theme in my proposals recently: I want to even out the project and make the senior warrior rank less exclusive than is has been. I feel the rank is held too highly above the rest of the project. In reality, we're just members of the project that have been recognized for our experience and handling of the tasks the project presents, and we are trusted with extra tasks because of it.

I feel there are many warriors that are more than competent and experienced enough to handle this job. However, they are denied spots as senior warriors because again and again people declare that there are too many senior warriors.

However, in a recent discussion I had with Kitsufox, she actually opined that the project should be at least 1/4 senior warriors, if not 1/2. Frankly, I agree with her. I think that, at minimum, this project needs to be 25% senior warriors. And, at current count, we have 70 members. That would mean that, instead of the current 9 senior warriors, we need about 17 or 18.

This would not mean lowering the standards of becoming an SW, of course. This would just mean that those that already live up to the standards (and there are many of you) will be given their chance to be elected to the rank.

Honestly, how could we have too many senior warriors anyway? The SWs help keep the project moving by approving images. And if someone is elected that isn't ready for the job, the vote will likely fail anyway. I trust the project to know who to and not to promote. 03:27, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I thought the only reason that we kept the number low was because we might step on each other's toes with edit conflicts and stuff. Otherwise I've never seen any good reason to keep the number low. 03:30, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

That's not much of a reason to deny excellent warriors this promotion, in my opinion. :\ 03:37, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not saying that's my pinion, I just thought that was the reason. 03:39, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I know. ^^ 03:45, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of more SWs. With all the new apprentice images, it can be very tasking to maintain all those chararts for archiving and such. 03:52, January 5, 2012 (UTC) Shadewing

I agree. There really isn't a reason there shouldn't be more senior warriors. And it seems silly to say "no more senior warriors" when CBAing and archiving images is an essential part of the project and you might as well have as many people doing that as you can and still increase your efficiency. Breeze whisker  04:12, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

As an addendum to my opinion (which Shelly quoted correctly), it might be something to consider to limit what part of the membership is counted for deciding what the percent numbers mean. That is to say, so many apprentices (at least used to) fall off the boat, it might be wise not to count apprentice or lower ranks in the figuring for what the "target" numbers. But theirin you also need to consider that it's now easier to move out of the apprentice rank (I still think two approved is too many, and one should be enough, but that's another discussion for another time. One that might become necessary if auto-decline becomes a possibility) so things should buff out pretty well given a little time... 14:16, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I can see why we need more senior warriors. Too much would be like, 40 senior warriors. We need them to get the project to run smoothly. But this would eliminate the number of warriors we have in the project, so to stop that we could lower the requirements slightly for an apprentice to become a warrior. We have 24 warriors right now. If 9 of them were to become a SW, that would leave 15 (I know this sounds stupid), and we have a whopping 35 apprentices, compared to them, the warriors are tiny. Only about 1/2 or 3/4 of the apprentices are active though, so if some were to be removed we'd have around 27 apprentices left. <span style="">05:30, Fri, Jan, 6, 2012

Yeah, DJ, but becoming a warrior is pretty simple now anyway, and all members of the project should be contributing evenly regardless. Having more people in a higher rank wouldn't change how much gets contributed each day. And if my screening process proposal goes through, the introduction of a new rank will mean that the apprentice rank may be thinned even further. 15:46, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Gorsetail (P3)
I reserved her warrior image because it put her on the list for redoing because the patches needed to be lighter and the shading needed to be redone. I noticed it was tweaked/redone by Moonleaf. It's still on the list, so does that mean it still needs to be redone? Just wanted to make sure. 06:17, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I believe so, yes. ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕  ☆StarClan be with you★  06:54, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Got it, I will post it soon. 23:59, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Firestar's Images
Okay, after what happened last time I tried something like this, I thought I'd present my case to the project first before putting him on the redo list.

I think Firestar's images should be redone for the following reasons: Don't try to say I'm out to get Icestorm by suggesting that all of her tabbies be redone, because I'm not. I'm suggesting this because we need to be supplying top notch art to all of our articles, and Firestar's images don't look like any cat I've ever seen. In this case, I don't want to be the one to redo his images. Someone else can do them. I just want to propose that they be redone without getting my head bitten off. 16:46, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Unrealistic color. A fiery ginger cat looks more like this cat and Firestar's images look closer to red.
 * 2) The pale stomach is too smooth and solid looking when it should either fade or be smudged into the rest of his pelt.
 * 3) The stripe pattern. It's bad. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. You could possibly argue that he has a bullseye tabby pattern, but looking at his other images it's clear this is untrue.
 * 4) The ear pink is undefined and purple.

- I agree, I did every single other one of his images and I hate triangle tabbies. I'd be willing to help out with his images since I've already done so. I have a free project. 16:51, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Kay. I'd say reserve an image of his now, Ivy, and if another SW or up agrees just go ahead and do it. 18:46, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I'd have to agree as well. Have fun Ivy ^^ 22:27, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

No Firestar, I have to agree on. Those stripes are definitely triangle stripes. Though I gotta say, and I don't really see how the earpink's purple..... 0.o But that doesn't really matter. xD I wanna do one of his images though! *goes to reserve* ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  01:29, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Go for it. 06:12, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Some Alts for Cats?
In A Clan in Need, page 25, Sandstorm is shown to be a solid pale ginger cat, but also with a white muzzle. In Shattered Peace, page 86, 87 and 88, Spottedleaf is shown to have black stripes and markings, more than looking like a tortoiseshell. Are these too close to their actual description, or do they get alts? <span style="">05:49, Fri, Jan, 6, 2012

Sandstorm-no, Spottedleaf- i dont know 14:43,January 6,2012 (UTC)

Yeah, from what was decided before about solid gingers, Sandstorm would be a definitely no, however I'd have to see what Spottedleaf looks like know whether she gets and alt or not, and I don't have the manga, so I can't say. :/ ♔ⓅⓐⓁⓔⒸⓛⒶⓦ♕   ☆StarClan be with you★  15:18, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

A deviantArt group for PCA training
It's been mentioned quite a few times, and I decided I really do want to try this out. I'm going to start a DA group for PCA.

I think how it would work will be pretty simple. We could either use the blanks here since we're working officially for the project, or we could make a new set. We could use the group to train apprentices without clogging up the wiki, and we could also use it as a place to show different types of pelt patterns, skin colors, how to make realistic patches, how shading works, etc. We can even make tutorials on how to use GIMP, pixlr, and paint to make chararts.

On top of that, it can just be a place for PCA members to upload art pertaining to PCA, you know, for fun, in a way that wouldn't stick their art into CC as it does here.

Does anyone think they'd be interested in this? And if so, can anyone think of a name for the group? 18:28, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea! Maybe the the group should be called WWiki-PCA-Training? 18:52, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

I'd be interested, though if we use the blanks here, I can see people complaining in the future, about us getting to use the blanks on deviantArt, the people that see them, will probably be mad, because we made them remove our blanks, but we can still use them. I'd prefer to use our blanks, but yeah. I can't think of a name right now though. And WWiki-PCA-Training doesn't right. I think we need a more creative name, sorry if I offended you Moonleaf. <span style="">19:17 Fri Jan 6

I think this is an excellent idea! I would be interested in helping, but if I'm not allowed that would be alright. New blanks, I think, but similar. Maybe like similar to the ones we've got, but one standing like the loner or apprentice, and one sitting like the warrior or leader. 20:23, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

PCA training grounds? Maybe? Not my idea, Kit's. 20:34, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

I like this idea! -- 21:11, January 6, 2012 (UTC)