Talk: Characters/Archive 118

In-use template

Just to be clear (since there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding here)... the in-use template is only supposed to be used for articles that are currently being worked on, correct? I'm going through what pages the template is on and I'm seeing pages that haven't been touched since almost their creation. This template was never meant to reserve pages, I thought. This is pretty off-putting and I want to make sure we're all on the same page here. —Jayce(03:27, 9/09/2020)

Yes, that makes actively a lot more sense than what it seems to be used for at this moment. It should not be used as a reservation, only to stop edit conflicts. Appledash ^{the light of honor} 03:31, September 9, 2020 (UTC)

I was taken aback today when I was (very gently) reprimanded for adding new information to an article. All wiki articles should be a team effort and if there's a conflict, it can be resolved case by case. Communication is key in any of these situations. But I really really don't like the idea of a single person "reserving" a page to edit for themselves. It has never worked that way and I can't see that working now. Someone may have some ideas in mind about a page, but if that page sits there for days or weeks untouched, that's not fair to put off anyone else who's trying to be helpful and contribute. Hawkfire ^{Happy Days ( 03:37, 9/09/2020 ) 03:37, September 9, 2020 (UTC)}

Mhm, and I'd like to say that this isn't directed towards anyone. I want to make sure that everyone has a fair shot at editing new character pages, and I also want to make sure the template is being used appropriately. It's my job as PC's leader to make sure things are running as smoothly as they can be, and I was pretty surprised when I logged on today and saw this. Might I suggest a time-frame for someone to at least start working on the page before the template is removed? A lot of the new characters have this template on them and I'm not sure this is very fair. —Jayce(03:39, 9/09/2020)

I think for some of the newer character articles, like Clawwhistle and such, the template was placed as a copy-n-paste scenario when they were made; a "gotta get these out there and push out the finer details later" kinda thing. So those can probably be removed (was actually thinking about those earlier). And I'm saying this as someone who's fiddled with the pages since they were created and haven't gotten an edit conflict notice.

I really like the idea of the template, as it has dramatically increased the number of edit conflicts since its implementation. Specifically, I think it was intended for large scaled edits; those pages that are being revamped with numerous edits to avoid someone edit snipping in between changes. Which it has helped. But it was never intended to be a reservation, no. But I get people can get busy, so it's important for the person who placed the template to be self aware and remove it when they know they won't get to it in a reasonable about of time. Say... a week or two? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:51, September 9, 2020 (UTC)

A week or two sounds fine. Another idea I have for the template is to include a feature that allows the person to put their username on it. That way, people actually know who is working on the article, and they can contact the user if they have anything to say. UAWarriors has a similar template, and it works well over there, so I wanted to bring this idea up. --Av ^{Out of sight and out of mind} () 04:06, September 9, 2020 (UTC)

Hmm...that's a good idea. I fiddled with the template so that all you have to do is input your username for the contact to appear.

"Well, it's bad, but it should be possible to repair it." This article is actively undergoing a major edit. As a courtesy, please do not make edits to this article while this message is displayed, in order to avoid edit conflicts. Please contact Vec for any concerns. This template is only viable within five (5) days since the user's last edit.

{{Inuse|[[User:VectorSigma101|Vec]]}}

Thoughts on the wording? It's late for me so I dunno if it sounds awkward or not lol. Or if there's an easier way to do it. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:16, September 9, 2020 (UTC)

That works quite well! Exactly what I was thinking of. --Av ^{Out of sight and out of mind} () 04:20, September 9, 2020 (UTC)

While I appreciate the sentiment, I still feel like that template gives the vibes that the page is still “reserved.” In fact linking whoever puts it there makes it sound like it’s more permanent reserving. I think the template’s use should only be if you’re proactively working on an article within the day. Everyone should be free to edit. —Echobelle ♡ ^{we cast off tomorrow!} (04:40, 9/09/2020)

I wouldn't say that it does that, Echo... there are other wikis that use template like this and have for years and it's never been an issue. I've seen Wookieepedia and even some Wikipedia pages use something akin to this... No one is saying that it can't be edited in the future. It's common courtesy to not edit an article when someone is currently doing a major overhaul and it is no different than edit summaries that we have all used before and continue to use to this day. It's not reserving articles, that I do know. Being respectful is just that. I'd rather a notice be there instead of there not being one and risking edit conflicting someone. —Jayce(04:49, 9/09/2020)

Speaking from experience, I tend to put the template there with the full intention to edit and finish the page, but then completely forget about the page. Life tends to take priority and while I'm sure when we put the template there, we do intend to work on it, but it is a bit unfair when it just sits there for weeks and months on end without much of an update, especially when it's a page from a recent release. I'm thinking that perhaps it's best to scrap the template altogether. While it should be common courtesy to not make major edits on a page you are aware someone else is actively working on, it also shouldn't bar every individual person from it. —Hrafnsmál ^{The raven's call} 04:50, September 9, 2020 (UTC)

I still concur with Jayce. It’s not a reservation, and if it’s being treated as such, then we should fix that. I think it’s purpose works well as long as it’s not abused. Having the template there serves as a visual cue that someone is currently working on it. As the templates states, the article is currently messy (at least that’s how my articles are when I’m currently editing them and have the template on), but it’s being fixed, just give it time. And I think that’s what it is. Time. Of course not an unlimited amount of time. But I think a week or so is perfectly acceptable. No one is saying that the article cannot be edited forever, but it just states for the time being, pardon the mess, but it’s being worked on.

There’s nothing more frustrating than edit conflicts, and those happen despite pokes in the edit summaries for the wiki activity. Sometimes despite the template being there too, but it definitely helps a lot. I think as long as we evaluate how we want to use it and it’s monitored, then it’s fine. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with giving someone some time to focus on an article for a little bit until it’s finished. Then everyone and anyone can edit it to their hearts content. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 05:09, September 9, 2020 (UTC)

My opinion is that the In-use template should be abolished. I don't necessarily agree with it being put on pages where you might get around to it, or you might not. Edit conflicts are annoying, but reserving pages feels a bit unfair, especially with the implication that no one is allowed to edit that page until they're done, but that's just me. Honestly, what I typically do to avoid edit conflicts is copy/paste my work elsewhere before I hit send, or I hide it in a notes/google docs file to hold onto it just in case. —Echobelle ♡ ^{we cast off tomorrow!} (22:29, 9/10/2020)

I don’t think it really needs to be removed entirely. We just need to remind people how it’s supposed to be used, and if it continues to be a problem, then maybe we can consider getting rid of it. With the inclusion of the name of the user using it on the template, we can talk to any user who puts it up for too long, which will make it even less of a problem. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(22:55, 9/10/2020)

We are saying it is not a reservation, but the idea of adding a user's name onto the article seems to indicate the fact that is indeed a reservation. I am in favor of abolishing the template all together, however, if it does want to be kept, I do not think it is a good idea to add a user's name to the article. Alongside that, if we keep the template, it should not stay on for any longer than five consecutive days at the most. It is incredibly irritating to want to help out the Wiki by editing articles and then finding out that you cannot due to the template. Appledash ^{the light of honor} 23:17, September 10, 2020 (UTC)

^ The last point is exactly why I disagree with the template's existence. With GV coming out, it felt like a bunch of users rushed to put a "claim" on articles that they wanted to write, and there forth gives the idea that they've reserved the article or that they own it, which should not be the case. I made the background and logo for this wiki, but because I uploaded it to the wiki, it's free use. I feel like that should also go for articles too. Edit conflicts are annoying, but there's ways around it that don't include reserving an article. I also feel like the current editor base is not large enough to warrant reservations. —Echobelle ♡ ^{we cast off tomorrow!} (23:22, 9/10/2020)

Hmm.. okay, it seems this conversation is going in circles a bit.... the main issues that I can see here are the following:

• What exactly is this template being used for and why?
  • Some are saying it's seeming like a reservation, while others aren't. Recent usage is showing that it seems like it's reserving an article, when that's not fair to anyone else.
• Should the template even exist?
  • If it should, what timeframe should we have in order to ensure that everyone can edit articles?
• If an article is undergoing a major overhaul or improvement, would it be better just to lock the page to staff-only, if they're the ones who are working on it?
  • But that being said, what if the user working on said page isn't staff?

Also, as Vec has previously stated, not all of those articles that bore the template were meant to have them. The coding was copy-and-pasted from each article so we could get the page created. The fact they existed on the page to begin with was an accident and never meant to actually happen. I'm not liking the implication that it was intentional coming from this discussion; Vec has already addressed this and there is no reason to not believe her. —Jayce(23:29, 9/10/2020)

Honestly, I personally do not think it should exist. If it was created for the sake of one article but then ended up expanding to others, I honestly think that is a mistake. I get that edit conflicts are undesirable, but I really do not see why a simple edit summary cannot do in this case? Although I can see the other side as well, I just believe that it is fairer if the template simply does not exist. Appledash ^{the light of honor} 23:36, September 10, 2020 (UTC)

In addition, I could see this being necessary if the wiki was maybe twice as active or more people were editing. But it is not. It seems the reason this template was created was for one thing, and honestly, I do not see so many edit conflicting as a genuine issue to put this in place. Appledash ^{the light of honor} 23:40, September 10, 2020 (UTC)

Expanding on if the template should even exist, I don't think we have a big enough userbase to justify needing to have edit conflict warnings or page reservations. Even with a major book release (Graystripe's Vow) not many people are currently day to day active, even with me and Icy returning from the dead. If we ever have big rushes like I've seen in 2013 or 2018, then I think we could bring it back, but currently, there's just not enough editing going on to warrant this. I've seen recent changes go from no edits for over 2 hours which is stunning to me. It's the slowest it's been in my time. —Echobelle ♡ ^{we cast off tomorrow!} (23:42, 9/10/2020)

I'd like to at least apologize as someone who has been misusing the template. Mainly because at the best of times, I had fully intended to get stuff done in a day or two - but would lose track of time either due to my work schedule, or my own terrible memory. So I'd like to preface my thoughts on this with that - that, yes we should define the usage of the template if we intend to keep it, and I'd also like to adress Jayce's questions, as per above.

From my understanding, the template never was intended to be used as a reservation (though it has been treated as such in recent times). The idea of it was to allow people a moment of time to make massive edits on articles, such as Bramblestar's impostor, or Scourge, that needed them - and not be edit conflicted in the process due to finicky little things and people simply missing the edit summaries in the wiki's activity page (as that can happen, and has multiple times to myself and others working on these project pages).

I think for certain circumstances, the template should exist. It's handy and its a nice notice to say "hey someone is doing some big changes here, and just needs a moment to get things sorted". That to me, is the proper intention of the template's usage. However, as I feel most of us know, time can get away from us and while we intend on getting a page done as soon as possible, we can be thrown many curveballs (*cough2020cough*). I like the suggestion of five days, as that's a general working week and can be easy to keep track of. The implementation of having a user's name on the template, while it does have the implication of a "reservation", makes it also easier to contact said user after that time, to check in on them and whatnot.

The idea of locking an article has its limitations. We only have so many staff, and a majority of the users that currently contribute to the wiki, are not in that circle. It'd be a little bit unfair, so to say, to lock pages on people as that almost seems an abuse of power (I'm not saying it is, but I guess it could come off as such). I know when I worked on Scourge's second nomination for Gold, we locked the page, and I worked on his article off-wiki to draft it up. But, when the time came to transfer what I had, due to timezone differences it made it somewhat difficult to get in contact with someone to unlock it, so that I could proceed. So, I'm of the opinion that locking pages makes editing a little more troublesome than it should be for the average user.

That's all I've got at the moment to say on the issue, and once again, I offer my apologies for misusing the template. — max ^{it is the real thing,} (06:38, 11/9/2020)

I don't agree with locking the pages. Not everyone has the power to access locked pages (including myself I think), so that's a no go. The template seems like a good idea to state when someone's trying to work on the page. And like Max said, people are busy, and might not work on the page for a while. With this template, I think it'd be easier to see which pages are being worked on currently, and also to see which user is working on it, so others can contact them if need be. ♥ Star _{red and black ♥}<16:32, 9/11/2020>

Alright, this conversation is getting a bit confusing? If I'm correct, some users are thinking that the Inuse template should be abolished, while other think it shouldn't? Putting a user's name on it and providing a link would be especially helpful, considering that if there was a problem you don't have to comb through the history in order to find the user who put the template on it. I don't agree with locking pages either. Not everybody has the rights to access those pages, and then users who want to add something are not able to. The template might be good if you want to tell somebody that you're working on it. But if it's left alone for a long period of time without changes from the user, then someone could work on it instead. Also, since Vec's made it so the user's name pops up in the template, will we be using it right now? ~Coralflame^{暗黒 絶望}00:36, September 15, 2020 (UTC)

We've gone around in circles and everyone seems to be of differing opinions, so should I offer this be put up for a vote? —Echobelle ♡ ^{we cast off tomorrow!} (23:41, 9/15/2020)

Vote is here Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 19:57, September 18, 2020 (UTC)

the website family tree (and more)

With the advent of this article from the website (to which I recommend everyone read), we have more information about the Warrior Cats website. With our prior discussion to move the tree's information to Continuity following concerns about errors and the website's validity, we now have an opportunity to reevaluate the tree and the website as a whole. The website team works for Working Partners, the same company that's behind the series, and works closely with HarperCollins and the story team for accuracy. They have direct connections with the inner workings of the series, and check with the story team for information such as DewXSorrel and RunningXDapple. They also decided to have the Missing Kits information as canon as decided by the story team. Also, the tree plans to update after each book with new information, which is exciting. Those are the smaller details, though I do recommend everyone should read the full article.

But, before this discussion can begin, I would like to say a few things. As PC deputy and an active wiki contributor, I work hard to ensure the accuracy of our character articles, and I love doing it! However, as I noticed when we decided to remove the information from the tree, it's usually just me working on most of the information. And there are still pieces left in limbo, I know, that I missed. And I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, I know we are all busy with our regular (or semi regular) lives. This is just some personal feelings.

So, as a preamble, I want this to be a serious discussion. We need to decide firmly whether or not to take the tree as canon, because I do not want us to change our mind a few months down the road. Of course, I'm not saying that we cannot ever change our mind, but I want this to be a firm answer. Because I'm honestly not going to tolerate a rapid decision and then have to change all the articles all over again. Do not decide to support the tree for canonicity just because you want to do a certain image but really don't think it's a good idea regardless. Have sincerity, be honest, and think this through. Because, like I said last time, this decision is major and will have lasting effects on our content; it makes a statement whether we like it or not. And I just want to make sure that we are certain about that statement.

But I will support whatever decision is reached by this discussion. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 15:48, September 10, 2020 (UTC)

Coming from the point of view from someone who has been against the tree in the past, I'd support discussing again the validity of the tree. My main issue with the tree in the past was that despite numerous comments on it's inaccuracies, it wasn't fixed. But seeing the rework they did to it recently and this article, it seems like the website believes that it is canon and is making the effort to keep it updated. They've acknowledged the Missing Kits issue brought up before as well, and did give some valuable insight into the tree. I also really don't want to discuss it's validity again and again everytime it gets a change. All in all though, I do agree with you Vec. I'm not sure if we're stating our takes on whether the tree is canon or not, but at the moment I'd suggest doing a voting forum after this gets more traction. —Hrafnsmál ^{The raven's call} 21:55, September 10, 2020 (UTC)

I agree. This is serious and will change wiki content forever. A vote will be a good way to settle this. That article is so straightforward about canocity, and they do appear to mean everything they say. --Av ^{Out of sight and out of mind} () 22:09, September 10, 2020 (UTC)

I know I've been critical of using the family tree in several previous discussions, but after reading that article and seeing the fact that they appear to be updating the tree regularly, I definitely think the family tree should be considered canon. My main issue with the family tree in the past has been the lack of transparency and the fact that we didn't know where the information is coming from, but now that we know that "all the information on the tree... has been checked with, or provided by, the Story Team", including the controversial Missing Kits stuff, I think it's pretty clear that it's canon. I don't think there will need to be a debate every time the tree is updated, because that article pretty much definitively proves that the tree is canon, even if there is a mistake or two on the tree. A vote would probably be good to put the issue to rest, though. —Ivy ☆ 23:24, September 10, 2020 (UTC)

To go off of the validity argument, is the website's claim that their source is the story team, accurate? Like has someone in the Warriors development team confirmed it as canon? —Echobelle ♡ ^{we cast off tomorrow!} (23:27, 9/10/2020)

As with other major things, I am fully in support of a vote to decide what we should do. A discussion wouldn't suffice in this case; we need the track record that shows this is what the MAJORITY wants. Given they're making a conscious effort to update the website, create more content pages, and actually generally improve the website from what it was when it launched, I think re-evaluating what we currently do in regards to it would be the best path. I can also relate to Vec's initial concerns about being the main person who works on things, and I also want this to be the last time, so we don't have to constantly go back and forth. —Jayce(23:37, 9/10/2020)

I believe if they are making a concious effort to correct mistakes in the family tree, then we should consider the tree as canon. If it doesn't contradict book information, then it should be regarded as canon. If it does, then we can probably inform them and they'll fix it. I'm in favor of a vote, to decide what we should do. And I agree with Vec, this needs to be a firm decision, so we don't flop around. ♥ Star _{red and black ♥}<16:32, 9/11/2020>

A vote sounds like a splendid idea, though I do wish to wait a few more days so everyone has a chance to say what they want to say first. ^^ Probably couldn't hurt to leave this discussion open while said vote is open too. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 16:42, September 11, 2020 (UTC)

Vote is here Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 19:22, September 18, 2020 (UTC)

Bigteeth ~ Silver Nomination

Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 17:53, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 19:42, September 25, 2020 (UTC)

Star Flower ~ Gold Nomination

not sure who wrote everything, but i fixed a bunch of grammar mistakes and switched up some things to make them sound nicer. —Cypressduskツ^(text)​ 19:17, September 18, 2020 (UTC)

I think since we don't cite just the books, like for the PR, they would need to be re-cited. I also think more quotes could be added, and her PR section could be expanded as well. I would also suggest putting Slash in the PR section. Juniperclaw (talk) 05:16, September 22, 2020 (UTC)

I also suggest particularly expanding on her relationship with Skystar and Thunderstar, as those are perhaps her two strongest relationships. You can also add quotes to the History section for MFV and SL. Also, go through the /History page and remove out of universe wording, like "Star Flower is first mentioned by Clear Sky as One Eye's daughter" and "Star Flower is first seen in Slash's camp". Gathering can also be capitalized in MFV. There are also a few repeating links in the /History page, and double check that their first appearance is linked throughout. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 19:42, September 25, 2020 (UTC)

Still working? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 05:10, September 30, 2020 (UTC)

Smudge ~ Gold Nomination

—Cypressduskツ^(text) 05:03, September 22, 2020 (UTC)

Greystripe's Vow needs to be finished. I would also think that he could have some more quotes since some of his interactions in GV was good. In his appearance section, since he was seen as 'then' and mentioned in the 'now', I assume both needs to be added. I'm also gonna think his GV in the info box should be moved before the book Dawn. Juniperclaw (talk) 05:16, September 22, 2020 (UTC)

Still working? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 05:09, September 30, 2020 (UTC)

Shtuff

Why does every cat that is mentioned in Tallstar’s Revenge listed as living in Redtail’s Debt although they were only in the allegiances? ♡ Dharma ♡ «23:05, 9/28/20»

It's because they were listed in the allegiances and therefore alive during that book. And that book is earlier in the timeline because Stagleap is a warrior and Sorrelpaw is an apprentice, etc. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 23:10, September 28, 2020 (UTC)

Ohhhhhhh! Because that's the only novella that lists the allegiances in all four Clans, right? ♡ Dharma ♡ «23:q6, 9/28/20»

It's one of the more complete ones, yes. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 23:21, September 28, 2020 (UTC)

Also 1000000% meant "later in the timeline" instead of earlier lol Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 23:22, September 28, 2020 (UTC)

Crest of Snowy Mountain - Silver Nomination

first time...don't think I've got this right lol.

~Coralflame^{暗黒 絶望} 22:10, September 22, 2020 (UTC)

I fixed some things up. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(23:03, 9/22/2020)

Try to avoid out of universe wording, like "Feather and Pine are seen digging furiously" and "It is decided that Graystripe, Brook, Thorn, another muscular tom, and Stormfur will go to dig Flipclaw and Feather out." Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 19:37, September 25, 2020 (UTC)

Okay, i'm hoping it's better now?

~Coralflame^{暗黒 絶望} 22:19, September 26, 2020 (UTC)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:58, September 30, 2020 (UTC)

Rejoin?

Hello. Is it okay if I rejoin Project Characters? Starlingspots 22:18, October 2, 2020 (UTC)

Welcome! I'll add you in, and make sure to read the guidelines before participating. ^^ Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 01:44, October 5, 2020 (UTC)

Chestnut - Silver Nomination

Um, some other people started it, not sure who, but I wrote the history, not sure if I can nominate this? --Fawn that Crosses Stream 08:57, October 6, 2020 (UTC)

You can always check the page's history for that info. Remove the out of universe wording and there are a few double links. Re-read the section as there are a few incorrect verb tenses, such as "They dip their heads and thank Moonlight and leaves" and "the yellow tom thinks about how happy he and Snail was when they had their turn". Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 19:39, October 6, 2020 (UTC)

Updated? I can only find one double link? ~ Fawn ^{Happy Times}()--Fawn that Crosses Stream 21:58, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

The Sisters should be linked, and I think "prey-hole" can be linked to prey I think. Maybe also mention somewhere about their mother, Hawk? I'm assuming she was at their ceremony. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:54, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Hawk is mentioned a couple times, and she is present, yes. She says goodbye to Chestnut and Snail right before Earth does. Also, I'd double-check for spelling errors- I noticed that "wander" is spelt as "wonder" at least once. —Jayce(04:04, 10/08/2020)

Updated. mentioned hawk and fixed spelling mistake Fawn that Crosses Stream 05:28, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:26, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Clawwhistle ~ Silver Nomination

Might have missed some info ♡ Dharma ♡ «23:45, 9/27/20»

The page number is wrong for the main quote. Get rid of the out of universe wording, such as "Clawwhistle is first mentioned - although unnamed". Could you also give a brief summary of Clawwhistle and WarriorClan in the first paragraph; that could replace your first sentence. Something like "Clawwhistle is a kittypet and a member of WarriorClan, kittypets who pretend to be warriors during the day in RiverClan's former territory. Graystripe is ambushed by WarriorClan while heading to the Moonstone..." etc.

Also finish up the comic section as he and the others find Petunia, head to the Moonstone, and return to camp later. You could also add some more quotes too. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 23:56, September 27, 2020 (UTC)

Updated. ♡ Dharma ♡ «00:12, 9/28/20»

Fix the second sentence in the history?

~Coralflame^{暗黒 絶望} 00:13, September 28, 2020 (UTC)

Updated. ♡ Dharma ♡ «00:16, 9/28/20»

Could you perhaps elaborate more in the opening sentence about WarriorClan? Just by reading Clawwhistle's page, a reader would not fully understand what the Clan is about.

• "When the cats find Barley sleeping in the barn, he and Monkeystar are crouching behind Graystripe", the "are crouching" can be simplified to "crouch" to avoid passive verbiage.
• "...and gave a massive leap up to one of the bales in the barn", avoid the past tense and perhaps say something like "gives a massive leap" or "leaps onto one of the hay bales...".
• "...who had been chasing each other around the barn", can be "who were chasing each other" to avoid extra past tense. That sentence can also be tacked onto the previous paragraph to avoid one sentence paragraphs.
• "Clawwhistle exclaims that the others are missing out as the five cats are eating." the "are eating" should be "eat" to avoid passive verbiage. Those sentences can also be tacked onto the previous paragraph to avoid a two sentence paragraph.
• "The next day Monkeystar and Clawwhistle are chasing each other in grass heaps..." the "are chasing" should be "chase each other..." to avoid passive verbiage.
• "Clawwhistle insists they they're brave enough" an extra "they"
• "Clawwhistle is seen with Lily when Bugeater..." avoid the "is seen" and could be "Clawwhistle sits with Lily..."
• "...he is grappling" more passive verbiage, should be "grapples"
• "He is also later seen after the skirmish with the kittypets when Monkeystar asks him if he had any injuries." should be something like "After the skirmish, Monkeystar notices the scratch on his nose but Clawwhistle isn't he's fine" or something similar.
• "Clawwhistle also joins Monkeystar, Lily, and Bugeater to search for Petunia, and finds her at her elderly Twoleg’s den, waiting for her Twoleg to return, and after Petunia is persuaded by Lily to come to WarriorClan, Clawwhistle is one of the cats to welcome her back." Could be expanded. the "also joins Monkeystar..." part is odd since they are just continuing their quest to find Petunia. Don't forget that they go to the Moonstone and Clawwhistle and Bugeater and Lily sleep while they wait. He also doesn't greet Petunia back at camp since he's returning with her. It's their Clanmates back at camp who are greeting her.

Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 05:09, September 30, 2020 (UTC)

Updated, sorry for all the issues. Played with the wording. ♡ Dharma ♡ «23:05, 9/30/20»

Should more quotes be added? Juniperclaw (talk) 05:44, October 4, 2020 (UTC)

Like, more quotes as in this, for example?:

"Keep your eyes open, Fireheart. Keep your ears pricked. Keep looking behind you. Because one day I'll find you, and then you'll be crow-food."

―Tigerclaw threatening Fireheart ^{Forest of Secrets}

Like that, for instance? ♡ Dharma ♡ «01:35, 10/5/20»

If he has any meaningful quotes in GV, then yes they should be added in his quotes section. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 01:38, October 5, 2020 (UTC)

Updated. ♡ Dharma ♡ «2:11, 10/5/20»

The page numbers are wrong for all the quotes (there aren't 500 pages in the book) and there should be two spaces between quotes in the Quotes section. Did you need help with those? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 06:18, October 6, 2020 (UTC)

There are actually over five hundred pages lol. Updated. ♡ Dharma ♡ «19:40, 10/6/20»

No, there isn't. I have the physical copy of GV, and there is 434 pages. The pages numbers are wrong. Do you need help finding the correct ones? 20:16, October 6, 2020 (UTC)

I have the digital copy on ibooks. ♡ Dharma ♡ «20:26, 10/6/20»

Yes but your page numbers are still wrong regardless. There isn't an issue with having myself or Milo to add those in for you like we've offered, so I'm not sure what is going on. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 20:30, October 6, 2020 (UTC)

Oh i got rlly confused abt the conflisting page numbers in the physical copy and the digital copy. Yes if you can plz help. ♡ Dharma ♡ «20:32, 10/6/20»

• "Or join us, […] That's an option too, if you're tough enough." - Clawwhistle when WarriorClan first meets Graystripe, page 205
• Clawwhistle: "Yeah, it was great! [...] I never thought we'd ever meet a real warrior cat." Bugeater: "It's been so exciting!" - Clawwhistle and Bugeater after training with Graystripe, page 214
• "He's super old, [...] That's why we come around to check on him. He tells us stories, and we keep him entertained by telling him all about our fierce warrior adventures, and make sure he's safe. Isn't that right, Barley?" - Clawwhistle about Barley, page 284
• "The others will be so sorry they didn’t come with us, just think what they’re missing!" - Clawwhistle while he, Monkeystar, Graystripe, and Barley are eating, page 290

While reading, I did find some more quotes that could be added also, maybe, but since you're working on Clawwhistle, I'll let you decide what to add! 20:33, October 6, 2020 (UTC)

Updated. ♡ Dharma ♡ «2:12, 10/7/20»

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:19, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

GV History Format

We need to put info into pages about this book, but some cats are in both "then" and "now". It's not going to be mashed together, right? I have an idea:

---

Graystripe's Vow

Now:

(Insert info here)

Then:

(Insert info here)

---

Once I know what format it is, I'll be happy to help with editing some cat history for this book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bush of Electricity (talk • contribs)

It might be better to just have it in different paragraphs? Like keep the timelines separate but not have the headings. Like

===Graystripe's Vow===
:Graystripe was deputy of ThunderClan

:Graystripe journeyed to the forest territories

I think if we just keep it separate, it should be fine. I also think we should have the "then" timeline stuff first in character articles so it matches the chronological order. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:19, September 7, 2020 (UTC)

Any other comments? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 19:51, September 25, 2020 (UTC)

I personally like the idea of using "then" and "now," so as to distinguish. It might be harder for people to spot the difference if we use different tenses, plus the fact that it also seems a bit strange to use present tense almost everywhere else in the history and then use past tense for this one part. This could just be me though. ♥ Star _{red and black ♥}<23:27, 10/04/2020>

Agreeing with Star. Mixing both tenses is confusing and also a little painful to write (I was literally trying hard to word the Thunderpath page lmao) so yeah, that would be a bit easier if we differentiated. --Av ^{Out of sight and out of mind} () 23:39, October 4, 2020 (UTC)

This is how I did it on the Super Editions page, and I think it makes the most sense. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(01:16, 10/05/2020)

I'm confused...everything should be in the same tense throughout regardless? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 01:21, October 5, 2020 (UTC)

I dunno, I think Vec's suggestion without the headings makes the most sense? Especially since most characters from what I can recall; don't appear in both parts. It's easy enough to have all the "Then" stuff first regardless, and the list the "now" stuff? The headings break it up just a little bit too much for my liking, as none of the other book sections have this? When I wrote up a GV section for the River, it was easy enough to list out the "then" stuff first, and then the "now"? — max ^{it is the real thing,} (01:23, 05/10/2020)

^ Likewise, what I mean to say. I'm not a huge fan of how it breaks up the section either with the different headings...and there's honestly not a lot for characters who do appear in both sections (except Graystripe), like Brackenfur and Thornclaw. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 01:27, October 5, 2020 (UTC)

The book itself is unique for doing this, it would make sense that the history sections would look a bit unique as well. I agree with Star and Potato, I think changing the tense (something the book doesn’t do btw) would be odd and the headings make it easier to organize and digest. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(01:31, 10/05/2020)

I'm still confused about the tense thing...are we talking about the same thing? Because when y'all say "tense" I think of verb tenses, like "climb, climbed, will climb"...but all of the history sections, regardless of time period, should be in the present tense unless they are describing a prior event iirc. I think you guys are referring to the time period/time skip with the "now" and "then" parts. But anyway, I could see this for maybe Graystripe since he has a lot of information for both parts, but for the others whose sections are smaller...I think it's fine with the appropriate preamble. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 01:42, October 5, 2020 (UTC)

I was referring to that kind of tense, yes. We should keep the same tense throughout the history. “Then” and “Now” is referring to the sections in the book that are titled that way, so yes post- and pre-timeskip. I’m not sure what you mean by preamble, do you mean like a beginning sentence stating wether this is then or now history? Ex: In the old forest under Graystripe’s leadership, Brackenfur... vs. In modern ThunderClan, Brackenfur... —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(01:55, 10/05/2020)

Well the tenses should be the same regardless. But what I mean by preamble, I'm referring to my first comment in this discussion that instead of the headings, just having a preamble indicating the time period, such as with the links I provided for Brackenfur, Thornclaw and Bramblestar (forgot that he's done too) since those history sections are done and it's basically just Graystripe and Firestar left. A "In the forest territories after Firestar and Sandstorm left to restore SkyClan and Graystripe temporarily leads ThunderClan," and a "Following the impostor's defeat," though those can always be elaborated if needed. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:03, October 5, 2020 (UTC)

Any further comments? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Archiving. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:53, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Harley ~ Gold Nomination

Kind of forgot to nominate this a while ago, but I added more quotes and cleaned up his history section. I added a PR section as well and fixed his mini bio. Not really sure who worked on it before hand? Juniperclaw (talk) 05:44, October 4, 2020 (UTC)

I haven't read SD in a while, but I think his SkyClan's Destiny section can be expanded? Simply because I think he plays a bigger role in SD than HJ and that section is much more filled out. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Actually, the appearances that were written in the section is actually all of where he appeared, unless you want me to try and write more with it? But he doesn't make a big appearance, only when Stick is seen in his pov chapters, and at the end of the battle. 01:47, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, if you can. But if you can't, just let me know. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:28, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Updated. Found more info where he was mentioned, but I expanded most. 01:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:09, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Greystripe's leadership/Elder bio

I was speaking with Thunder about this, but should cats that were around Firestar's Quest/Greystripe's Vow, around Greystripe's acting leadership, have him listed under their serving Clan leaders? Greystripe did run ThunderClan for a couple moons as it was stated around in the book of Greystripe's Vow. Since cats are serving under Squirrelflight's acting leadership, which is listed, I think it wouldn't hurt to list Greystripe's as well.

EX: Dustpelt was a ThunderClan warrior who has served under Bluestar's, Firestar's, briefly Greystripe's, and Bramblestar's leaderships in the forest and lake territories.

EX2: Cinderpelt was a ThunderClan medicine cat who has served under Bluestar's, Firestar's, and briefly Greystripe's leaderships in the forest and lake territories.

On another note, I also have chatted with Thunder about the elders that are currently alive, Brackenfur, Oakfur, Mosspelt, etc. Or even past elders, such as Ratscar, Millie, Mousefur, Longtail, etc. Currently a cat's bio would start with who their served under/or previously served under, but with elders, it's listed as both.

Ex: Graystripe is a ThunderClan elder under Bramblestar's, the impostor's, and Squirrelflight's leaderships in the lake territories and previously served as a warrior under Bluestar, Crookedstar, Leopardstar, Firestar, and Bramblestar in the forest and the lake territories.

This seems a bit long, and I think that we should only put those as an elder under the leaders, and list the serving warrior in the trivia, such as Oakfur's page states, if they have served under a lot of leaders. Oakfur, Ratscar, Mosspelt, Greystripe, Cloudtail, Brightheart, Brackenfur, etc. Thoughts? Juniperclaw (talk) 01:20, September 15, 2020 (UTC)

I'd be fine with the "under Graystripe's leadership" thing. And I'm not a huge fan of kicking something from the brief summary to trivia where it could potentially be hidden. The brief summary is supposed to provide a short overview of the character, and I think removing who they served under is erasing vital information that should be there imo. And I don't think Ratscar and Mosspelt have long "served under" listings...Ratscar only has three each and Mosspelt's only lived through three leaders (Crooked, Leopard and Misty). Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 18:33, September 18, 2020 (UTC)

I think I was just listing off elders, not just certain ones that served under a lot of leaders, but I think it could just stay the way it is, even if it looks long. But I get where your stance is, Vec! Juniperclaw (talk) 05:16, September 22, 2020 (UTC)

Personally, if it gets too long, I think it could stand to be shortened, and only include the most important leader they served under, or something. ♥ Star _{red and black ♥}<23:27, 10/04/2020>

Any further comments? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

I'd be in favour of adding "under Graystripe's leadership" since he was the leader of ThunderClan for a time, but agreed with Vec about not removing what is supposed to be a brief summary down to the trivia. If a cat has served under many leaders (Eg. Oakfur) then maybe, but otherwise I'd argue against it. —Hrafnsmál ^{The raven's call} 04:34, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Any other comments? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:53, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Is Rock a ghost?

While I was reading this article, it brought up an interesting question for me: is Rock technically a ghost? Or a spirit nonetheless. While the article does call him and Midnight spirits, there's also some evidence in the text to support this. Jaypaw is able to summon him with the stick and speaks with him when Jayfeather attempts to save Flametail from drowning. He is able to speak with Jayfeather through the timelines, including when he sends him back as Jay's Wing. Rock also tells StarClan that he and Midnight knew each other since the beginning of time with the "first sunrise over the lake" that revealed all the prophecies.

I don't know if the text ever outright calls him a spirit...I'd have to look, but I think there's enough evidence is there in the books. Thoughts? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:51, September 30, 2020 (UTC)

I would go for putting Rock as a ghost, I mean, is he part of the Ancients when he was introduced, or was that where he was? He is similar to Fallen Leaves, more so like a ghost living in the tunnels? Haven't read Power of Three in a while. Juniperclaw (talk) 05:44, October 4, 2020 (UTC)

I agree with making Rock a ghost. We could show that and his healer in the infobox. --Av ^{Out of sight and out of mind} () 14:30, October 4, 2020 (UTC)

i agree with this. he could have a ghost charart as well. —Cypressduskツ^(text) 14:48, October 4, 2020 (UTC)

I agree;he has many ghost-like traits as Vec stated. ~ Fawn ^{Happy Times}()--Fawn that Crosses Stream 08:44, October 5, 2020 (UTC)

Any further comments? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:55, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

book specific spoiler template

Been fiddling with this for a while (for so long that some of the books are outdated at this point lol), but this kinda harkens to an old PO discussion that kinda died about revamping the spoiler template, though my idea would only apply to PC, I think. I'm interested in book specific spoiler templates, specifically for recently released books. Our spoiler template is kinda a "one size fits all" template and could mean anything from Bluestar's death all the way in the first series to the reveal of the impostor currently. And that's a wide range of topics and literal years of spoilers.

While the spoiler template is a discussion for another day, one important category of spoilers is those from recently released books. I think character pages with major spoilers from those books should deserve their own special warning. A visitor might not realize something happened to a certain character in the newest book if they are just browsing around the wiki and unintentionally see spoilers (my mind goes to the craziness of TBC arc) or realize a character is new from the latest book. In addition, I noticed other wikis have spoiler warnings for recently released books, games, movies, etc.

I've created some templates on my sandbox as examples. While the wording and aesthetics can always change later (there are a few colors I'm still iffy on personally), but I think the format is sound. Character picture from the cover, a non-descriptive/non-spoiler/out of context quote from said character, and the warning for major spoilers. Some of the quotes for the later books are just placeholders until a sample/book is released. My idea is that the ones for TBC would stay until the next book is released since they come out twice a year, and maybe 3-4 months for the others? Not entirely sure.

Thoughts? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 06:39, October 6, 2020 (UTC)

I agree with this, as people might be reading information about the newest books, and not really be realizing it and it would probably help a lot. --Fawn that Crosses Stream 09:46, October 6, 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. --Av ^{Out of sight and out of mind} () 14:25, October 6, 2020 (UTC)

I've always been bothered by the fact our spoiler template is so small and just.... kinda there. I'd be more than game for a book-specific one, honestly. The only thing I don't like is how some of the images are rounded and some are square-edged. It's a minor aesthetic thing, but it does throw me off a little. Would we be able to ensure that each image somewhat matches in style? Except for the graphic novel ones, I mean, those are fine. But the square edges go a little more to the edges of the template than the others and makes them seem different. —Jayce(16:13, 10/06/2020)

That's fair, and I tweaked those images a bit. It does look a lot nicer ^^ Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 17:05, October 6, 2020 (UTC)

An update, I think I've created a template that functions similar to the awards one to have all of the spoiler templates in one place. It also makes it easier to code if/when we have these on the pages.

Drop down here

"I'm just not ready. I'm so glad to step back for a cat who's truly worthy." This article contains major spoilers for the recently released book, Veil of Shadows. Please proceed at your own discretion.

"I can't lie again. Being a medicine cat is the most important thing in my life." This article contains major spoilers for the recently released book, Mothwing's Secret. Please proceed at your own discretion.

"I don't want to be Earth anymore. From now on, call me Tree." This article contains major spoilers for the recently released book, Tree's Roots. Please proceed at your own discretion.

"Being part of a Clan is a wonderful thing, but so is knowing that you can depend on yourself." This article contains major spoilers for the recently released book, Pebbleshine's Kits. Please proceed at your own discretion.

"At least now, [...] he was able to believe that his paws would find a path forward, even though he didn't yet know what that path would be." This article contains major spoilers for the recently released book, Graystripe's Vow. Please proceed at your own discretion.

"Why does everything have to be cast in shadow?" This article contains major spoilers for the recently released book, A Shadow in RiverClan. Please proceed at your own discretion.

"This warrior will not stop until every Clan cat has paid for what he believes was stolen from him when he was alive." This article contains major spoilers for the recently released book, Darkness Within. This also includes the reveal of the identity of the impostor. Please proceed at your own discretion.

"When I lead ShadowClan, I'll be better than either of them, he promised himself. [...] Whatever he did, he wouldn't make Tigerstar's or Brokenstar's mistakes." This article contains major spoilers for the recently released book, Blackfoot's Reckoning. Please proceed at your own discretion.

"Everything she did seemed to reawaken his sense of loss. But as a mother of kits, she could only think of what was best for the vulnerable newborns." This article contains major spoilers for the recently released book, Daisy's Kin. Please proceed at your own discretion.

"Now. We have to be bold. For all our Clans." This article contains major spoilers for the recently released book, Spotfur's Rebellion. Please proceed at your own discretion.

"Your luck is going to run out if you go on tempting fate like this." This article contains major spoilers for the recently released book, The Place of No Stars. This also includes the reveal of the identity of the impostor. Please proceed at your own discretion.

"If it's for the good of WindClan, could something awful in truth become the right thing to do?" This article contains major spoilers for the recently released book, Winds of Change. Please proceed at your own discretion.

"" This article contains major' spoilers for the recently released book, '. Please proceed at your own discretion.

Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 19:35, October 6, 2020 (UTC)

Any further comments? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:55, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree with what everyone else said. User:Star that Shimmers on Water/Sig2 17:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Petunia - Silver nomination

—Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(16:37, 10/14/2020)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:45, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Can I join

Hi! Can I please join this project? Doestrike signing off (talk) 18:06, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Welcome! I'll add you in, and make sure to read the guidelines before participating. ^^ Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:53, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Daffodil - Silver nomination

I expanded the history and added quotes. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(18:38, 10/15/2020)

Could you perhaps expand more on the end how Fang was devastated by her absence and how they planned to have kits together? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:13, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

I elaborated on their parting conversation and added Fang’s feelings in her absence. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(16:23, 10/17/2020)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:46, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Squirrelflight's scar

With the release of the new Squirrelflight plushie on the warrior cats dot com website, she's depicted with a scar which is said to be from her wound from the battle in Eclipse. As far as I'm aware in the series, she has never been described with a scar (thanks to Milo who cobbled together what references could be found in regards to it here). However, the wound she received in that battle was noticeably severe, and if I recall correctly, many cats believed she would die because of how bad the wound itself was. When I mentioned this to a few other editors, they did make note that a wound as severe as depicted in the text would almost certainly leave a scar of some sort.

Personally I think we should add the scar to her description and images, but given the nature of the cites themselves, I'm a bit iffy. We could cite it to the plushie, but personally I'd rather cite it to a book (and if we cite the scar to the plush, does that mean we cite warrior cats merchandise?). I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts on this. —Hrafnsmál ^{The raven's call} 00:03, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

I think her warrior should at least have it, because that was a major part in Eclipse... while her deputy's shouldn't be as obvious, perhaps. Also, citing one instance for merchandise doesn't mean we have to cite everything- this one in particular backs up the text in the book, so it's not just the merchandise being cited, we also have the segments that Milo gathered for us that show it was pretty significant. —Jayce(00:07, 10/16/2020)

I would say go for it for citing the warrior to have the scar, but even her queen, deputy, leader, star, loner, refugee(in terms of placement of the scar) would have it too, but maybe not as obvious, which is what Jayce suggested, but still have it on them. I agree with what Jayce is saying that, although we are citing this for only Squirrelflight, we aren't citing the entire merchandise. I also would take into consideration that with the other plushies, the erin team noted her torn ear, as well as Ravenpaw's sleekness of his pelt(which has been mentioned various times throughout his story), and Brightheart's scars(which is always obvious). Even since we considered the tree to be canon again, I would say citing the merchandise is alright as well. But for Squirrelflight having the scar, since it's a scar and almost killed her in Eclipse, I'd say go for it. 00:17, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Since it backs up the text shown in the book, I agree that we should add it. Spookflower ^{Evil Witch,I'm not scared!} 00:20, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Do you mind posting the page number of the first image posted? The one first describing the deep gash. That'll probably be the primary cite with a note explaining its significance with her recovery and the website. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:02, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't have the books with me, but I reading through the PDF again, and the first image I gave was from chapter 17 of Eclipse. Mostly all of the screenshots given were from chapters 17-20. 02:07, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

The injury is described from pages 235 to 236. I happened to have the book next to me, so I went and checked. —Jayce(02:11, 10/16/2020)

Any further comments? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:45, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Archiving. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:23, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Sleekwhisker question

Would Sleekwhisker be counted as exiled since she was driven out with the other remaining cats of the Kin? ♡ Dharma ♡ «3:07, 10/19/20»

My memory of that series is kinda poor, but I don't think she was exiled? The Kin was just chased out, them as a group, and not as individuals from a group iirc. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:42, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Any further comments? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:45, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Archiving. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:23, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Thoughts

So I think we should have a residence for clan cats who have died, but are not confirmed to be in StarClan or The Place of NO Stars, a bit like the unknown residence. Thoughts? —Sakura ✧.* () 16:54, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

I don’t think this makes very much sense. If we don’t know which residence they’re in, why would we make up a residence to put them in? The unknown residence is a confirmed residence within the books, it’s where kittypets go. It’s not a residence we made up to put cats in. If we don’t know where a cat resides, then we don’t list a residence for them, simple as that. We just list which residence they were last seen in. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(17:06, 10/24/2020)

We already have Category:Deceased characters regardless, which I think suits your thoughts just fine imo. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 17:15, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Archiving. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:23, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Join request

hi! can i join this project too? ~Banana Spirit ^{Flying Higher}() 01:21, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Welcome! I'll add you in as a member, and make sure to read the guidelines before participating. ^^ Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 01:58, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Join Request

Can I join? Magicshine ^{Stan Talent Stan K-pop}

Welcome! I'll add you in as a member, and make sure to read the guidelines before participating. ^^ Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 01:03, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Stick ~ Gold Nomination

I cleaned up his history section and expanded SD. I added his PR and more quotes to fit. Cleaned up his page to make it more organized. Thanks to Vec who helped with clean up of words and grammar. 01:23, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:15, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Sunflower - Silver Nomination

—Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(21:46, 10/22/2020)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:16, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Buttercup - Silver Nomination

—Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(21:46, 10/22/2020)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:16, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Chester - Silver nomination

—Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(21:11, 10/24/2020)

While you may keep this one up, please keep in mind in the future that you are only allowed to have three first-time silver nominations up at one time according to our guidelines. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 00:57, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for telling me. In PB there’s no limit to nominations iirc so I was unaware that it was different here ^^ —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(01:02, 10/25/2020)

Ye no worries. It's only because in PC there can be a lot of content to sift through compared to book subpages. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 01:09, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:16, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Minor characters/A Shadow in RiverClan ~ Silver Nomination

Worked on the bulk of it and added the images from the book. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 00:48, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:17, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Brokenstar - Gold Nomination

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to do this, or if I'm giving it the right nomination. But I think that Yellowfang's Secret is complete, and I don't know if there's anything more to be added to Bramblestar's Storm. It has been a while since I read BS. —Sakura ✧.* (Leopardpelt71 19:28, 14 October 2020 (UTC))

His PR section is missing a lot of cites, as some of them are missing sources; [sources?] is shown. I also think his PR section could be expanded with Raggedstar, Yellowfang, Nightstar(maybe after the tom rises as ShadowClan's leader, and how he was ruthless towards ThunderClan after it was revealed they were sheltering Brokentail, stating reasons for it maybe?) I think that his foster siblings, Runningnose, Tangleburr, and Deerfoot could be added in the PR section, as well as the Dark Forest Trainees, hence how ruthless he was to them in OotS. I wouldn't mind adding Stumpytail to the section maybe.

His family section would have to be expanded due to the family tree being canon on the wikia now. You could always look at other cats' pages to see how everything goes as well. On the topic of quotes, I think a lot more quotes can be added from YS, OotS, and maybe some in TPB. And if you don't think there isn't much else to be added in BS, you can remove the more coming soon. 19:47, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Fidgeted with the history a little more. —Sakura ✧.* () 16:46, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

I still stand with the whole of my previous comment, unless you weren't finished? 16:54, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I wasn't finished with it. —Sakura ✧.* ()17:44, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Still working? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:15, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

I'd like to withdraw this if I can. User:Star that Shimmers on Water/Sig2 02:14, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Archiving. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:05, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Yarrowleaf- Gold Nomination

I don't think we need to simplify River of Fire anymore, and I think it's complete. Also, am I allowed to start two nominations? —Sakura ✧.* () Leopardpelt71 21:15, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

You are allowed to start two nominations, but the PR section is incomplete. The paragraphs in Thunder And Shadow for the history section needs a bit of work;they are only a few sentences for some. Fawn that Crosses Stream

I believe she can have more quotes maybe. While completing the PR section, I would suggest adding Spikefur, and her siblings. 21:44, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

There's a redlink for the {{Shortened}} template on the history page. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 22:57, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed the redlink! —Sakura ✧.* () 04:34, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Just going to poke since it's been a few days since an edit on her pages, but the prior comments still stand. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:44, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Still working? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:15, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

If I can, may I withdraw this nomination? I don't happen to have any resources for this. User:Star that Shimmers on Water/Sig3 02:13, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Archiving. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:05, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Foxheart ~ Gold Nomination

Fidgeted with YS, and changed the label of some quotes. Hope this is enough. Star that Shimmers on Water (talk)

I'm not sure if just fidgeting around with a few things warrants as a Gold, like is there anyone who worked on the article before hand? I also think she could have a small PR section since her personality is shown a lot in YS, such as Raggedstar, Yellowfang, and Nightstar, and her fam? I think maybe more quotes could be found, since of her relationship towards Raggedpelt and Yellowfang. 02:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Starshine, while not explicitly stated, it is heavily implied that you put significant effort into your gold nominations, such as Scourge and Slash. Also, your recent edit is worded awkwardly, "Brightflower exclaims that she knew something was on with those two, and the clan thinks this was because the Clan thought she was the mother of Brokenpaw" and remove the link in the quote you edited. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Gave her a small PR section, as Milo stated. Star that Shimmers on Water (talk) (sorry for some reason my sig is acting funny)

I've read it, but I think the PR can be expanded. The cites that were given were sometimes just for one thing in the sentence and not of the whole fully cite. I can give some pointers if that helps, or if you would like help, I can help as well. I think there could be more quotes when she was an apprentice maybe too, even when Yellowfang was an apprentice, she was kit, and Foxheart despised Yellowfang from the start with her relationship with Raggedpaw.

Wolfstep: What made them have a good relationship as littermates? Are there examples? Are there instances where they interact within the book, as kits, apprentices, warriors? You could even cite the brother in the sentence, same for the other cites.

Poolcloud: Were there instances where Poolcloud was being a mother to Foxheart? Any interactions? I know it wasn't heavily focused, so forgive me on that. Were there also interactions with her father, Toadskip?

Yellowfang: Maybe expand why Foxheart hates Yellowfang? There was a lot of interactions between them within the book and not was just the one sentence given. Is there a cite where it shows that Foxheart was jealous? What made Foxheart the way she was with Yellowfang? And why did Yellowfang not like Foxheart so much?

Raggedstar: Try adding some instances where she wanted to be with Raggedpelt, even as a kit when he was an apprentice, I think there were some interactions. And my bad, Raggedpelt should be Raggedstar. What made Raggedstar chose her as deputy, was there more reasoning? Maybe expand a bit more on why she liked Raggedpelt/star? Idk if there were any interactions for that. Forgive me if not, haven't read the book in a while. Why did the Clan think that she was Brokenkit's mother?

Are there any good quotes to represent each cat in the section as well? You can look at other pages with some PR finished sections to figure out some stuff!

For her personality/traits section, maybe expand with some examples of the way her traits her, maybe?

I apologize for this being long. I just wanted to help with some advice. If you need help, don't hesitate to ask me! 03:25, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Milo, your message really helped me! I fixed Raggedpelt's section of her PR, but I'm not done yet. —Sakura ✧.* () 19:17, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Still working? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 00:45, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Can I withdraw this one as well? Again, I don't have any resources. —Sakura ✧.* () 02:13, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Archiving. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:05, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Lily (GV) - Silver nomination

I added quotes, Hawkey wrote the history and other significant contributions were made by Vec. Either of them can share this nom with me if they want. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(17:35, 10/11/2020)

Remember to place two spaces between quotes, not one. Spookflower ^{Evil Witch,I'm not scared!} 19:04, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Did you ask Hawkey if she wanted to share this nomination? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:28, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

No, I didn’t, as I figured they would just see it here, but I guess not everyone stalks the wiki as much as I do lol. I’ve sent them a message. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(12:20, 10/12/2020)

I have been made aware of the nomination, and I'm in :) Hawkfire ^{Happy Days ( 14:12, 10/12/2020 )}

I think you can add a bit more detail in the history section, like some of the instances in the quotes you added that are missing. It just seems very cut and dry for a minor character. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 16:49, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Still working? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:23, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I expanded on the history since Hawkey is busy. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(17:57, 11/04/2020)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:06, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Cheddar - Silver Nomination

History written by me; Sleek added in the main quote. — max ^{it is the real thing,} (19:33, 11/11/2020)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:25, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Leaf ~ Silver Nomination

I have finished Darkness Within and added more quotes + main quote. Not sure who worked on his page in the past though, but I think Thunder and Sleekfang? 03:33, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

There are a few words that should be in present tense, such as "pointed". I'd also vary up your word choice as you use "tells" frequently. I would maybe elaborate on what Leaf does to communicate with the earth, too. Remove the "is shown" for "Rootspring is shown to be proud to be related to Leaf." and reword "and Sunrise was in question when she asked if the Clan cats saw Leaf" since I think you just meant "Sunrise questioned if they've seen Leaf" or something. For his SqH section, I would add that it was the four Clans and not just WindClan and ShadowClan. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:52, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Updated. Hope it's better now. 04:25, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:28, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Pancakes - Silver nomination

—Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(13:04, 11/12/2020)

I would remove the quotes section since the quote in there isn't all that significant compared to this others. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 16:42, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree, it's not significant. User:Doestrike/Sig2 16:47, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Removed. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(17:05, 11/12/2020)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:29, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Eggs - Silver nomination

—Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(13:04, 11/12/2020)

Could you add more how the patrol grumbles they shouldn't have listened to the kits because they fear to be loss later? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 16:44, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

It's around pg 143-145 if you're confused as to where that occurs. User:Doestrike/Sig2 16:49, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Updated. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(17:58, 11/15/2020)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:30, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Project Members

The warrior wiki chracters page said "To join the project place a request to join on the talk page.", So I'm placing a request. I want to help out. Bush of Electricity

Of course. I'll add in you as a member, and make sure to read the guidelines before participating. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:31, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Kate's blog, when and when not to use cites

Seeing all the unnecessary tweaking of images is really making me wonder when and when we shouldn't be using Kate's blog as a cite for already-existing characters. Given Kate has said multiple times that "it's not canon if it does not appear in the books", should we really even be considering these a valid form of cites to begin with? I also feel like, for pelt length, given that she sees cats as short-furred all the time, that could be considered some kind of bias and we really shouldn't be using it. Especially moreso because she has constantly said that the information on her blog is not canon. I really feel like we need to have this discussion again. Even if it doesn't "contradict written descriptions", it's still not supposed to be canon in the first place. —Jayce(19:37, 11/8/2020)

Yeah, agreeing that there are some things that should just not be taken, and that the things said on BlogClan could be seen as speculation. Regardless, things such as pelt length are inconsequential and probably should not be asked for. I think it's nice to ask Kate a few things to clear up any ambiguity and to ask for her opinion but when it literally says the info on the blog isn't canon unless it's written, it's probably best to not cite everything she says as canon. ♥ Star _{red and black ♥}<19:52, 11/08/2020>

I’ve been noticing this when I stumble upon one of these, and to add to that, as taken from some of the debates centering around Dovewing’s eye color, Kate has stated multiple times on her blog that her eyes were pale gold, although it was repeatedly contradicted by Working Partners numerous times. It really only comes off as canon if it’s confirmed by Working Partners, and on top of that, she doesn’t seem to get all of her information from that organization, which actually seems like cherrypicking on Kate’s part. Really when the authors disagree (including her) with Working Partners, it creates confusion among the warriors community over what and what not to consider canon, and that’s really what it all comes down to. ♡ Dharma ♡ «19:57, 11/8/20»

Honestly, the only things I'd be okay with keeping are really only two things:
1.) Clarification: if we're asking for something written in the book, such as making sure this was understood correctly. Firestar's death is a huge example of this, because many misunderstood the scene she wrote, and her making sure we got the proper answer is perfectly acceptable. I've also asked Vicky personally about Ziggy and Riga, because the scene in the Bramblestar's Storm is written in a way where you can't tell who is who without that information.
2.) Insight: Kate saying why scenes were written this way, why things were removed, ect. This is pretty self-explanatory. Finding out why, for example, Tall Shadow's chapter was cut from a book, or why Crowfeather was picked as deputy, ect. Things that happened, but we don't know why.

Generally, descriptions adding onto what we already have or asking for Graystripe's kit names are pretty inconsequential given the grand scheme of things. Some of it is also common sense. That's not saying we're going to change how we list things... but I don't think constantly asking Kate for Firestar or Violetshine's pelt length or eye color is of any use. —Jayce(20:07, 11/8/2020)

I do agree with Jayce and Sun above with what should be added to be canonical and what shouldn't. Like, the books would be more confirmation before the authors, I think, but for like short or long furred questions is pretty bizarre. Sometimes, the books will clarify if a cat is short or long furred, such as Cloudtail, Thistleheart, or Pinefur, but some would just say sleek, thick, glossy fur, etc. I would say characters (Moth Flight's kits, Alderheart, Violetshine, Twigbranch, Sparkpelt, Needletail, etc) fur cites should not be considered as a cite for the wikia, since Kate herself says short fur a lot from the previous screen shots given. As Jayce said, questions that involve around certain things, not just fur cites, should be considered, such as the examples above (I can't think of any more right now). With the TBC and DoTC pogs cite, I would object to adding it as well, since it's a fur-related question.

EDIT: Forgot to add but with clarifying something in the books would be a cite if answered that would be considered canon in the wikia, as stated above. But just fur length is just something else, I guess. Even asking for a pelt desc, such as Leaftail and Leafshine(I think that was her name from TR) would be alright as well since it's not really in the books? Leaftail has always just been called tabby, but if he was called something else within the books, then Kate's cite would be a mistake, I'm assuming? 21:51, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

I found the image where Kate has said "short-furred until otherwise stated". I agree with Jayce's outline above, though I request that we keep the information and shove it in trivia, since I did do a lot of work with the blog cites and I'd hate to see it all thrown away ;u;. But I've always disliked it when people ask Kate those kind of questions just to slap it for the wiki; we've always had that rule to not bother Kate for information just to put it on the wiki unless it is something that absolutely needs clarification. And I'd personally would be fine keeping cites for characters like Leafshine and Bluebellkit since they didn't really appear physically in the books. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:05, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Repurposing the cites and using them in the trivia would be fine with me! I'm just more concerned with them being used for major characters when Kate's made it very clear that this information isn't supposed to be used this way. Characters who don't have anything canon tied to it, like Leafshine and Bluebellkit, would be fine as they are, I believe.... since there really isn't anything to contradict or things of the like. It just doesn't make sense to continue to use these for book characters when Kate has made it very clear the information isn't valid. —Jayce(04:14, 11/9/2020)

I think we shouldn't be using what she says. She's emphasized multiple times that if it isn't in the book it isn't canon. Including that kind of stuff in trivia is the best way to go. —Jay^{I hope they remember you....ϟ} 01:14, 11/12/2020

Any further comments? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:19, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Archiving. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 00:21, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Blackclaw In Mistystar's personality section

Since the Family Tree has reconfirmed Blackclaw is her mate, should we add his old section into her personality page? I believe it is on her talk page from years ago. Mellowix (talk) 10:49, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

not much, and almost nothing is revealed about blackclaw and mistystar, except that they were mates, i believe. im not sure if having blackclaw on the pr could have much content about the relationship. ~ Fawn ^{Happy Times}() 11:15, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

The only reason I knew they were mates was because of the family tree, so there isn't much stuff going on in the books that define their relationship. User:Doestrike/Sig2 13:42, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

I mean if you can find anything substantial, feel free to add it. I know he was hostile towards her a time times in the book while she was deputy iirc. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 16:45, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Spike - Silver Nomination

Double-checked the whole thing. ♡ Dharma ♡ «6:01, 11/14/20»

Doesn't this need to be nominated and passed for silver ranking first? It doesn't even have that yet, so I don't think that's very fair. —Jayce(06:05, 11/16/2020)

Ok, changed it. ♡ Dharma ♡ «1:17, 11/15/20»

Darkness Within needs to be in italics in the main quote. A couple of things could be linked just as Twoleg nest and cats. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:36, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Updated. ♡ Dharma ♡ «4:16, 11/15/20»

Do we normally put stuff like "Spike is a stocky male dog that loves cats" in a character's bio (Right now it just says "Spike is a stocky male dog" but I was wondering if we could put that on their)? User:Doestrike/Sig3 12:49, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

i believe not? ~ Fawn ^{Happy Times}() 12:51, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

No the top portion is just for physical descriptions and the "cat-friend" is in the infobox. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 20:49, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:00, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Ashfur and the impostor

The following contains spoilers for Darkness Within. YOU ARE WARNED.

See more

So per the sample of Darkness Within, Bramblestar's impostor is revealed to be Ashfur. It confirms a longstanding theory and also raises some questions about how exactly the content on both of these pages.

Personally, I would like to see the two merged. It seems offputting to me if we're keeping these two pages separate when the impostor and Ashfur are one in the same. Yes, through Lost Stars to Veil of Shadows he's just a fake and we don't "know" it's Ashfur, but two chapters into Darkness Within, he's revealed as Ashfur. It would seem odd to me if throughout books 1-3, we treat him separate, but then suddenly as if they're the same per book 4 and will almost certainly be regarded as Ashfur over simply the impostor, or Bramblestar, or some variant to that extent. To me, the impostor is still Ashfur, but he's just simply wearing a mask and concealing his identity, and we should treat them as if they're the same character. What I had initially planned for the major spoiler point was a template warning people about major spoilers for TBC, probably just after the TBC header should he receive one. Even a dropdown option because, yes, this is a major spoiler for the arc. I also have issues regarding how we would do the personality, relationships, and quotes for him. Ashfur's main page already has a PR section (albeit not filled out). The impostor also has one. It would seem rather odd to me if we're acting as if this character (acting on the basis that Ashfur is the impostor in this scenario) is worthy of receiving two different PR subpages, despite being the exact same character in question? I would argue that knowing Ashfur's previous interactions and relationship with Squirrelflight (among many other characters, but I'm using her as an example here due to her being the most prominent among these) is crucial to understanding the way the "impostor" is acting towards her and how he treats ThunderClan, and the other codebreakers. I'm rather certain that when the arc plays out, his prominence in POT will again serve importance (reading into his line about "justice" in the Darkness Within excerpt), but if we ignore this, it would seem, odd, to say the least if the reader (as in, reading the wiki page(s) themselves) was not at least made aware of it. Is the impostor page just going to be merged into one massive page (meaning that his PR and Quotes subpages get added onto his main page)? Because then that again brings up my issue that they're being treated as if they are two different characters in the series, when in the middle of the arc, the impostor himself is revealed to be Ashfur. If in this scenario, will the impostor page be treated as Ashfur's appearances in TBC? Even if (and this likely seems to be the case per Darkness Within) he's regarded as Ashfur, not some other variation of what he's been called in the three books prior? I understand the viewpoint of it being a major spoiler, and I do agree to a certain extent, but if he himself is regarded by his real name (and not by the impostor, Bramblestar, or whatever), it would seem silly if we don't acknowledge that and again, treat them as if they are two different characters within the canon. I understand that through Lost Stars, The Silent Thaw, Veil of Shadows, Graystripe's Vow, and like, the first chapter of Darkness Within, he's simply regarded as anything but Ashfur, but again, in the middle of the arc his full identity is confirmed, and throughout these aforementioned books, while he claims to be "Bramblestar" and is treated and regarded as him, we know for a fact that he is not, and the impostor is simply Ashfur.

I understand immediately merging the two pages on the 10th may hold some issues. The issue with the formatting, in my opinion, can easily be tweaked to reflect a different (acting here like the impostor page will be tweaked, I don't mind doing that) style of formatting. The history sections I'm also rather uncertain on, because, as mentioned above, it would seem to me like they're being treated as if the impostor and Ashfur are two different characters within the series. Ignoring the issue about spoilers, to me it would seem like the most pragmatic and arguably logical way of doing this would be to merge the impostor page onto Ashfur's, but as I said, have a template warning people essentially saying "Major spoilers from TBC, read at your own risk" or something to that affect. Could even have one on the very top of the page if we really wanted. As said, I just think it would be rather silly if we treated them as different entities, when as revealed in the arc itself, the impostor and Ashfur are one in the same. Yes, he's under a facade/different identity throughout the first half of the arc, but again his full identity is revealed in the middle of the arc, right at the start of the book as well, no less. While yes, they are, for the context of the first half of the arc, different characters, Darkness Within essentially just says "the impostor and Ashfur are the same". Again, it seems odd to me that we'd be potentially adding in Ashfur's appearances from book 4 onwards onto his main page without prior context.

With regards to spoilers, I already said that I believe a template in the TBC header could function well enough. If one wanted to view his history as the impostor (essentially TBC 1, 2 3, and GV), I don't see much harm in having it on Ashfur's /History subpage, but in context of the book, he is referred to as "the impostor" or whatever up until Darkness Within.

I'd like to hear other's thoughts on this. Though, for the sake of this discussion, please elaborate with your answers. I don't want to see any single sentence comments simply going "I agree with [user]" and nothing else. Explain why you think doing whatever way is better. I'd like this to be finalized beforehand and try and make it fair for everyone. —Hrafnsmál ^{The raven's call} 04:12, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

I believe we should keep them separate. Part of the reason is that, in the cases of the first three books or so, he's just the "impostor" and anyone who wants to know information about the "impostor" will just know him as that. Maybe I'm the only one who does this, but sometimes I look up information while I'm in the middle of a book series just to know some stuff. And I feel like someone who wants to know information about the "impostor" shouldn't be majorly spoiled for that. Not everyone reads the books as soon as they come out, too, and this reveal goes beyond anything the series has experienced before. Our content should be accessible for everyone. But the two are essentially different characters in the eyes of the narrative imo. They don't know who he is until Squirrelflight finally figures it out. The impostor can stand alone as his own character for someone who doesn't pick up on the clues, but yes, having the knowledge that he's Ashfur does give the reader some hints and further background. And I think that's the key. The reader. We know because uh...we're smarter than the characters and have outside knowledge, but the characters don't know that, and I think our content should always reflect that. We should always try to exclude outside information or out of universe information from our articles.

Perhaps treating that page the same as deceased or forgotten character and leave it be for the first three books of TBC (basically how it is now) and then merging that stuff over to Ashfur's page (including PR, Quotes, etc) and continuing on from there was always my line of thought. The impostor's page is very comprehensive and can stand on its own, and I think having a link with {{Main}} should be sufficient. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:27, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

While I understand the points behind merging the pages, I am very much against this choice for the time being. It's not that I'm totally against it, because I'm not... but I feel it would be in the best intrest of everyone to not merge them right now. Yes, we now know for sure that Bramblestar's imposter is Ashfur... but I feel that there's a lot more to this than just the cut-and-dry "we got confirmation, let's merge the pages" thing.

For the first three books in The Broken Code, Ashfur was not acting as himself, and instead as Bramblestar...we named his page "Bramblestar's imposter" for a reason. So, I feel like we should be keeping the pages as they are for that reason. This isn't just a typical case of us not knowing who a cat is (such as The stranger (TST) or Petal and Fox's mother)... we also knew that this cat was intentionally posing as someone else. His intention was to become the cat he was posing as and to cause harm to ThunderClan and the other four Clans. This is definintely a case we need to be very careful with, because of the importance to the plot of The Broken Code as a whole.

I know we could have a template, but also... not everyone reads the templates. Not everyone gets the books right away like most of our editors do, and some people are behind a few books. I'm sure we even have a lot of newer readers viewing the wiki on a daily basis. While I realize we have spoilers everywhere and anywhere on the wiki, this is a little different than Bramblepaw becoming Brambleclaw and later becoming Bramblestar, or finding out that Sol talked to Midnight. Spoilers like that don't affect the entire plot of an arc of books and don't take four books to reveal. This was intentionally built up and hidden for multiple books for a reason, and merging the pages, to me at least, seems like a slap in the face for everything that Kate, Cherith, and the narrative tried to do with hiding his identity from the main cast of characters.

I feel like it's not as simple as saying "the imposter is simply Ashfur".. it's so much more than that, to me. If this were a couple years old, I could see possibly merging the pages, since everyone's had a chance to read the arc and see what happened. But right now? It's still far too new and far too spoiler-y to risk it. If we do merge, I would not support a page merge until at least January, if not later. In fact, I don't know if I'd personally be okay combining the pages together until The Place of No Stars is released- to give everyone a fair chance and at least seven or eight months to read Darkness Within without having something spoiled for them.

I get we're not here to coddle the fandom and whatnot... but it does speak volumes when even the blurb for book five does not name the imposter directly. We should be taking everyone into consideration here, instead of just the few people we have who edit the wiki. Our viewers vastly outnumber our contributors, and we should definitely be respecting them by not spoiling at least four books at once. So, no, merging the pages right away is off the table for me and I will not be budging on that. There is zero reason that we should be spoiling content like that right after a book drops- that's very distasteful and we know better than that.

By keeping the pages unmerged, no one is saying they are two different characters. That's just completely untrue. Keeping the pages unmerged prevents a major spoiler from being accidentally revealed for someone, who say, may only be on Sign of the Moon and who happens to be reading about Ashfur's one appearence in StarClan... it also allows people to search for "the imposter", if they're on The Silent Thaw, for example, without having the books after it spoiled for them because we merged the pages way too early. It's the safest route for new readers and viewers of the wiki alike- we're not here for us, we're here for them. We get so many more page views than you guys even realize sometimes, and we can't always just think about ourselves when it comes to the content we display.

tldr; don't merge the pages right now, and possibly wait until The Place of No Stars is released, but no earlier than that. Vec's idea is splendid and prevents anyone from accidentally spoiling themselves. We may be an encyclopedia and we need to document, but we also need to be respectful of everyone reading the wiki. —Jayce(05:19, 10/12/2020)

After reading the others' opinions, while I was commenting myself, I probably think that keeping the two separate for now is the best bet, not that Thunder's opinion is any good. It is. But probably not the best time right now. I also think Vec's idea is good for when we add quotes and PR to Ashfur's section, but would it be added to the impaostor's section as well? I guess it could repetitive, but since they are the same and should have different pages for now, or would be okay? I mean, when Darkness Within is released, there should be something implementing that Ashfur is the impostor without merging pages. But also keeping it separate and not spoil it too much since it's only the fourth book in the arc. I know my comment isn't much, but what the others said is basically what I've been thinking and don't want to repeat it, heh. 05:31, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree with not merging pages, because once Darkness Within comes out it may conflict with Ashfur's relationships with Brindleface, Ferncloud, etc. Although it may possibly be ideal to put this in Ashfur's PR page:

==[[Bristlefrost]] (As the impostor)==
:{{CS}}

And such.
<br>Or anotherwords, for Squirreflight:
==[[Squirrelstar|Squirrelflight]]==
:{{CS}}
===As the impostor===
:{{CS}}

However, this may just go in the impostor's PR page, so just stating my thoughts. ♡ Dharma ♡ «5:53, 10/12/20»

I always thought that a good way to do it would be to put the impostor’s page in a tab on Ashfur’s, sort of like how we had Beetlewhisker and his appearance errors listed in two separate tabs. This would have been spoilery before (his identity would just be at the top of the page for all to see), but now that we don’t use the tabs anymore, we could just link the impostor’s page near the bottom of Ashfur’s under a massive spoiler tag maybe? Otherwise, I agree that we shouldn’t merge the pages immediately, and Sun’s example above demonstrates to me how confusing it’s going to be to merge Ashfur and the impostor as one when they’re both fleshed-out character pages that can stand on their own. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(12:16, 10/12/2020)

I'm going to agree with Jayce. This is, in other words, one of the biggest spoilers in the history of the books. I feel as if we should hold off merging the two pages until mid-late winter or even up until TPoNS is released. If the pages are moved during the DW blitz, then everyone's just going to get spoiled instantly and that's quite rude of us. Also, I like Sleek's idea of linking under a massive spoiler tag, possibly the DW tag, so people are warned that what they are about to click leads to massive spoilers for the series. Av ^{Out of sight and out of mind} ()

I don't think we should merge them together. Ashfur and the imposter lived a different life, despite the two being the one and the same. Ashfur might've been major in that book in PoT(that I can't remember now) because he threatened to reveal Squirrelflight's secret, however, the entire TBC series circulates around Ashfur as the imposter, if that makes sense. In Lost Stars, The Silent Thaw and Veil of Shadows, the main character is the imposter, not Ashfur. They're kind of like seperate then. Ashfur's earlier life was known as Ashfur. After Ashfur's death, he is known as the imposter. That might've been confusing - so, what I was trying to say, in other words, while they are the same character in reality, they are living/lived different lives. Ashfur spent his life trying to get Squirrelflight to be his mate, and while the imposter also is chasing Squirrelflight around, he isn't as overly obsessive over this, and his main goal is to basically exile every cat who has broken the code, though he does favor some more than others, such as Berrynose. This new Ashfur is different...Ashfur has changed, so I think we should be respect that fact and reflect it in our articles. Ashfur was posing as Bramblestar's imposter, as told, and still is - I don't think this changes much, and we should wait for the other TBC books to come out in order to figure which choice is best.

Agreeing with Jayce, I don't want WWiki to become to be a source of one of the biggest spoiler in Warriors History - the imposter's secret identity being Ashfur. I have no idea how many views we get - but the number will be shocking, I'm sure, especially when the new books are released, or when a major event happens. I think the views on Ashfur and the imposter are going to surge from now on - so it'll be bad if we just spoiled everything to all Warriors Wiki viewers around the globe. Personally, I think we should wait for the books to come out before we add in the information. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are instances where we can't always take the Erin's word. Sleek's idea sounds good. ~Coralflame^{暗黒 絶望}13:17, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

So I was fortunate to get Darkness Within early, and throughout the book, the actions the "impostor" did are directly associated with Ashfur. I've put together a handful of the times where it's mentioned/associated here (beware of spoilers, obviously [1]). When referencing things the impostor did books 1-3, they don't use "impostor", they use Ashfur's name, and treat him as the same character as the impostor. Bristlefrost and Squirrelflight mention Ashfur's reign of ThunderClan. Shadowsight says that Ashfur tried to kill him. I know the vocal majority on this discussion here wants to keep the pages separate, but given that the book itself treats the two characters as the same one, it might be worth mentioning. —Hrafnsmál ^{The raven's call} 02:50, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Since it’s confirmed that he is the impostor, we could merge the pages, but I think it would be a better idea to just have the pages separate while making it clear that they are the same character. I think we should treat this like it’s two different versions of the same character; Ashfur in his body, and Ashfur in Bramblestar’s body. In this case, because the two versions can stand alone as two separate characters, I think we can still just put a link to the impostor’s page on Ashfur’s page under a massive spoiler tag (and vice versa) like I suggested before so that it’s clear that they’re the same character, just two different versions. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(02:56, 11/08/2020)

From what I read from the book, I believe that it's right to merge the pages, despite all of the spoilers. If Bramblestar's impostor is known as Ashfur throughout the whole book, we should probably recognize it now that the Clan cats know his identity. Given the screenshots Thunder has given, it shows that he is called Ashfur a lot, not Bramblestar or anything, but he is also called "the dark warrior", but I wouldn't object for having it called like: "Ashfur, also known as Bramblestar's impostor(or the impostor, the dark warrior, the false Bramblestar-some names he was called when he was leader of ThunderClan). I know the major spoilers since it's Ashfur and Bramblestar's impostor one in being the same cat now, but I believe we could potentially merge the pages? 16:35, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

I finished DW not too long ago and I wanted to get my final thoughts out there. Which...haven't really changed from my original thought honestly. While I'm fine with shoving all of the impostor's stuff onto Ashfur's page, I still would want to keep Bramblestar's impostor for now to avoid spoiling it for people and having a spoiler warning at the top linking to the identity of the impostor. Basically just leave it as is, or just add some parts from DW where they don't know it's him just yet and then continuing that on (including merging) onto Ashfur's page. As for when this merge will happen, I'm honestly fine with whenever since I think maintaining the impostor's page will help prevent people who don't want spoilers just yet. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 05:58, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm on Thunder's side here. Merging the pages seems to be the best way to go with how the characters in this series are written. Ashfur and the impostor are the same characters. Ashfur is just using Bramblestar's body as a disguise. In Darkness Within, as soon as the impostor is outed, he's called Ashfur. They are treated as the same character and thus the pages should be treated the same way. —Jay^{I hope they remember you....ϟ} 01:07, 11/12/2020

I don't know if I'm allowed to put my input here, but I suggest this: If someone searches "Bramblestar's Impostor", it will redirect to a page saying:

'''The impostor''' has already been revealed in the [[Darkness Within]]. Do you want to see...

:[[Ashfur (TC)|The cat]] who possessed Bramblestar? (Warning:Spoilers)

'''OR'''

:[[Bramblestar's impostor|The page describing the impostor]], not the actual cat? 

Sorry if I interfered. Just wanted to share an idea-Bush of Electricity

I'd put that in a new section, but that idea does sound good and reasonable. User:Star that Shimmers on Water/Sig4 18:46, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree that the pages should be merged, maybe just with a spoiler warning and redirect. It feels confusing and misleading, especially when the imposter's page says his identity is unknown, and Ashfur's page completely neglecting the fact. Honestly, anyone who goes on this wiki anyways is pretty much asking for spoilers, and we've got all these spoiler warnings everywhere already. It seems like people who don't want to be spoiled are pretty safe in this situation. Midnight Frost Snow Leopard (talk) 00:12, 17 November 2020 (UTC)Midnight Frost Snow Leopard

Or even post an expandable section underneath the description, just so people who come on the wiki won't get pissed about being spoiled and harass the staff or anyone about it, which they might. ♡ Dharma ♡ «1:07, 11/15/20»

Initially, I was against the idea of merging the pages namely due to the fact that the way I read Lost Stars and The Silent Thaw, the impostor is a different character than a revealed Ashfur - probably due to the fact that no one was a clued into the fact that he was the real Bramblestar. I think merging the pages does work, but sections like PR and History should be done right - have stuff clearly marked with warnings for spoilers/content in relation to Darkness Within. As somethings aren't entirely relevant to Ashfur from pre-TBC, while some information is only concurrent with the current plot. That's all I've really got to say on the manner, at this time, I think? Hope I articulated it well enough as well whoops :D — 'max ^{it is the real thing,} (02:28, 17/11/2020)

Minor characters/Mapleshade's Vengeance ~ Silver Nomination

May be the wrong one, but added the gray and white kittypet did in the book. User:Star that Shimmers on Water/Sig3

"trodding" is misspelt; I think you meant "trotting". Make sure the first appearance of other articles are linked first. And remove oou wording such as "later seen". Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:34, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

ive fixed it ^^ ~ Fawn ^{Happy Times}() 12:23, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Could you change {{Main Quote}} to {{Quote}}, to match with previous minor character pages, such as this one, and this one? Also, re-reading that brief history section for the ShadowClan cat, would the word "trotting" instead be "trodden on", given the context? — max ^{it is the real thing,} (20:24, 17/11/2020)

Updated. Hope it's better now. User:Star that Shimmers on Water/Sig3

Remove the links in the quotes. A few more things could also be linked such as Gathering, patrol, adder. Make sure to also include the affie templates, ThunderClan, on there. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:00, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Updated. User:Star that Shimmers on Water/Sig2

Remove the links from the actual quote itself, Vec was moreso saying to add the links to the description/history section I believe. Also, both ShadowClan and Kittypet should still be added. — max ^{it is the real thing,} (04:18, 20/11/2020)

Updated. User:Star that Shimmers on Water/Sig2

Edited a few more things. —Sakura ✧.* () 03:06, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Yeah sorry that's what I meant. CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 05:50, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Olive - Silver Nomination

finally got this done. ~ Fawn ^{Happy Times}() 12:12, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

remove the short summary. I would shorten some conversations a bit since there's a lot of unnecessary information, such as "Milo exclaims they are almost there, and Olive meows it is just across the hill." Some words can also be reworded to avoid passive language such as "are grooming" to just grooming or groom. Top is also misspelt as "too" in the last paragraph. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 20:48, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Updated? ~ Fawn ^{Happy Times}(03:30, 11/18/2020)

A few things could be linked such as kittypet, Clan, cats, monster, kit, daylight warriors, lake, squirrel. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:05, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

updated think they're the first links. ~ Fawn ^{Happy Times}(06:51, 11/21/2020)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 05:47, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Beekit - Silver nomination

I know my Lily nomination hasn’t gone through yet, but it’s been two days since voting concluded. Aethalcyon helped a bit with this one. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(14:43, 11/19/2020)

Remove the character pixels section as she does not have an approved image yet or need one since she would only have one image anyway. Link "kit" and "apprentice" as well. The heading for "The Broken Code" is missing the word "arc" at the end. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 04:08, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Updated, apprentice was already linked. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(13:34, 11/20/2020)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 05:45, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Bacon - Silver Nomination

User:Doestrike/Sig2 18:59, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Since you brought up the dog, I would mention how the Twoleg is the one who stops the dog from chasing Spotfur and Bristlefrost. And then change the "They are chased by a dog" to "They are chased by the dog" since you already introduced it. I would also vary up your diction a bit since you use "tells" a lot. Make sure to link kittypet, too. I would also add more after how the group grumbles they shouldn't have listened to the kits once they are on their way. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:39, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Ok, I put that the Twoleg saved them from the dog, I changed the "chased by a dog" part, and I tried to change up the "tells" part. I linked kittypet and I added a paragraph about how the group grumbles and stuff (I also changed some cites because they weren't introduced as kittypets until page 120, it was previously 119). User:Doestrike/Sig2 14:04, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

I would clarify that Spike is pulled away (I believe back into his Twoleg nest) by the Twoleg. There's also some pieces in the article that only relate to Eggs and not Bacon, such as " Eggs says that they can be their friends, but the ThunderClan she-cat corrects herself, and irritably tells them that they are looking for old friends, not new ones. Eggs looks crestfallen." It's also not really important to the conversation. There are also some details that aren't necessarily important, such as "Spotfur asks if Leaf said where he came from or where he was going." or "Spotfur asks which river, and Eggs shows them which way Leaf pointed to. The cats then part ways." Could be simplified to "The kits point out the direction of the Sisters' camp, and the Clan cats part ways." Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:47, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Ok, I cut down a lot of stuff related to Eggs and the last sentence. Anything else? User:Doestrike/Sig3 01:26, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 05:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Firestar and Whitethroat's death

Could Whitethroat count as one of Firestar's victims, even if accidental? Mellowix (talk) 10:48, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Maybe, as Fireheart was the one to chase him onto the Thunderpath. If we do add it, it would be caused and accidental, like with Whiteclaw on Graystripe’s page. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(13:11, 11/12/2020)

I actually think it's a good idea, and it makes sense. —Sakura ✧.* () 18:09, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

I dunno, this seems a bit like reaching to me, and seems like it's taking this listing idea a little too far. —Jayce(18:42, 11/21/2020)

i think graystripe is the one who really killed him, not Fireheart? it seems to extend the "indirectly caused" thing a bit too much, in my opinion. ~Banana Spirit ^{Flying Higher}(07:27, 11/23/2020)

Here’s the exact passage: “Fireheart emerged a moment later and saw Whitethroat poised on the edge of the Thunderpath. Fireheart hurtled toward him, expecting Whitethroat to flee to the tunnel, but Whitethroat took one look at the ThunderClan warrior and raced straight onto the Thunderpath.” -Rising Storm, Chapter 15

I think it’s safe to say that Fireheart is the one who caused Whitethroat to be hit by a monster. I honestly think it’d be fine if we put it on his page as indirect and accidental. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(15:39, 11/29/2020)

After reading that paragraph, I agree with you tbh. User:Doestrike/Sig3 16:12, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Pack leader - Gold nomination

bored, and decided to fix up this one — max ^{it is the real thing,} (03:12, 26/11/2020)

Can you change " short black-and-brown pelt" to "a short black-and-brown pelt" User:Star that Shimmers on Water/Sig2

I would've thought the way I have it currently makes more sense, as the full sentence is "with a black-and-tan head,[2] short black-and-brown pelt,"? As the two essentially describe the same thing? — max ^{it is the real thing,} (03:24, 26/11/2020)

Seems fine as it is to me. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(15:39, 11/29/2020)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:15, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Sunshine - Silver nomination

—Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(15:32, 11/29/2020)

CBV? Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 02:17, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

The Sisters as rogues

Alright, so I was discussing this with some other editors on the Discord, and I think either all the Sisters should get rogue chararts, or we should remove the ones who currently have them from their infobox. Even though they’re described as rogues in SqH, they’re not in DW, so there’s no reason why we should keep them for cats like Hawk, Tempest, Snow, etc. DW is a newer book with different information and it should trump SqH. It may have even been a mistake to call them rogues in SqH. If it wasn’t a mistake and they are still rogues, then why don’t Moon, Squirrel, and Sunshine get rogue chararts? They’re still a part of the Sisters, and there’s no reason why some Sisters would be considered rogues while others aren’t. BloodClan cats get BloodClan blanks and rogue blanks regardless, so we should be doing the same here. Like I said, if they’re not rogues anymore, then remove the rogue Chararts. Thoughts? —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(16:50, 11/30/2020)

The images were added because the Sisters were called rogues on the back of Squirrelflight's Hope, "And when a new group of rogue cats moves in just beyond Clan boundaries and quickly becomes the target of the other Clans' frustrations and mistrust...", and on HarperCollins' website for the book, "And when a group of rogue cats move in just beyond Clan boundaries, drawing the Clans' frustration..." Both are inherently neutral and primary sources.

But, we also know that isn't entirely true, as the Sisters do not act like rogues and are repeatedly claimed as not being rogues (there's a scene in DW where Kestrelflight mocks Tree's idea for seeking help from the Sisters since they are rogues and Squirrelflight snaps back that they aren't rogues, that comes to mind). Because that information was present in the original Sisters' introduction in SqH, that is why they have the rogue image in their infobox and in general. Because those specific cats were called rogues from a primary and neutral source and the others weren't. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 17:12, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

We can't just ignore an entire book like that. The chararts and cites should stay because that's what they were addressed as in the book. We can't cherrypick, and that's what this is. —Jayce(17:13, 11/30/2020)

So only that specific group of Sisters get rogue images? In that book, they refer to the entire group of Sisters as rogues. Moon, Squirrel, and Sunshine are a part of the Sisters. Shouldn’t they get rogue art? And I’m not saying we remove the rogue art entirely, just from the infobox, as they aren’t referred to as rogues anymore. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(17:18, 11/30/2020)

Moon and Squirrel were kits during SqH, that alone means they do not get rogue art. Sunshine was not part of the Sisters during SqH either, meaning she also would not qualify since she was not in the book. They referred to those cats as rogues, the others should not get art due to the fact they were either not present or not of age. Plus, in the case of Moon, Squirrel, and Sunshine... where exactly would we cite that to? A piece of dialogue that was said when these cats didn't even exist in the narrative? We have nothing to cite those three to being rogues, but we do have cites for everyone else. —Jayce(20:09, 11/30/2020)

If we can’t cite to a book that the Sisters that only appear in DW are rogues, then the other Sisters shouldn’t have the rogue images stay in their infoboxes. Even though they appeared in SqH where they were called rogues, their most recent appearance is in DW, where they are not. This is clearly something we have accepted, as Moon, Squirrel, and Sunshine don’t have rogue art because they didn’t appear in SqH. The Sisters may have been considered rogues when they were living near Clan territories, but they have since moved and no longer seem to be considered as such, because if they were, Moon, Squirrel, and Sunshine would have rogue images as they are a part of the Sisters. It makes no sense to single out certain cats who are all part of the same group as rogues while others aren’t just because they appeared in a certain book, being SqH in the case of the older Sisters, and SqH is older than a new book that now has different information. And again, I’m not saying remove the rogue images entirely, just from the infobox, as they are no longer rogues. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(21:35, 11/30/2020)

I don't follow your logic, Sleek. Just because they are no longer called rogues doesn't mean that they weren't at one point in time in the narrative... we can't just remove the information because things have changed. If anything, the information should most definitely still stay listed. The way you're speaking makes it seem like you want to get rid of the listing as well as the images, and that's what I don't understand here. The information is still valid and should most definitely stay on the article. —Jayce(21:44, 11/30/2020)

I’m not saying they were never called rogues, just that they aren’t anymore. We can keep the images in the charart gallery and the listing as a past one, but the rogue chararts should be removed from the infobox. That’s all I’m saying we should do, and that’s why I brought this up in the first place. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(21:48, 11/30/2020)

Okay, that's what I thought you meant, but I was getting conflicting views from your initial message. It seemed to imply you wanted everything gone and it labeled as a mistake- we can't do that because we don't know if it was a mistake or not and that would be assuming. I thought you meant to remove the information as a whole, which that doesn't make any sense whatsoever when you consider the fact they were called rogues in canon. I'm okay with just removing the images themselves and only displaying the Sister images. What I'm not okay with is removing the information as a whole, or giving rogue images to Moon, Squirrel, or Sunshine, for reasons stated. —Jayce(21:52, 11/30/2020)

I never planned to remove the information entirely, so sorry with the misunderstanding on that part. Just removing the images is fine with me. —Sleekfang^{The future is ours to decide}(21:58, 11/30/2020)

Join Request

Hello, may I join this project? -Jay ^{I'm finally active again xD} 04:45, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Of course! I'll add you in, and make sure to read the guidelines before participating. Vec ^{I am Iron Man! 👾} 03:21, 7 December 2020 (UTC)