Talk: Characters

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Senior warriors and citing ranks

Wow I completely forgot to bring this up. xD Anyways, so I was discussing with Teldy about this a bit, and she said to bring up an actual discussion about it. I was editing a bit the other day and noticed a couple of characters who were in the senior warrior category, though I have no memory of them ever being mentioned. As it's a category, I can't add a cite tag to it, and even if I could, nobody could cite it to prove they are one. So I was thinking perhaps we could list them in the charcats like any other rank, and cite where it specifically says they're a senior warrior. But then we also couldn't cite those and not the other ranks, as it'd be inconsistent. So maybe we should just cite all ranks in the charcat? It'd be helpful with more than just the senior warriors too, for instance, characters like Pad, who's in the manga only which I know a lot of people have never read, is listed as a Loner, Kittypet, and Kit. However he's only a kit, and he was only in one book. So how do we know it's real unless you can read the book yourself? Am I rambling?

Anyways, so what do you guys think? Should we add the Senior Warrior rank to the charcat, and/or cite ranks? Paleh Send help 08:54, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

I think it might be hard to cite where a character is mentioned as a SW, but it wouldn't be impossible to find. I'm not against the idea. User:A Cat Named Cheshire/Sig 15:44, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

I also think it'd be a good idea to cite the other ranks (like kit, elder, etc.). User:A Cat Named Cheshire/Sig 15:50, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it would be hard to find the cites, but in a way, that's kinda the point. So few SWs are mentioned in the series, and yet there's so many in the category. If it's hard to cite, a lot may be taken out due to lack of cite, which is the point. Paleh Send help 00:45, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

That's true. I agree with this idea. User:A Cat Named Cheshire/Sig 13:11, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

I agree, Paleh. I don't remember some of the cats in that category being called SWs... Stoneclaw 01:15, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I agree we should cite the ranks. However, I don't know about adding the SW. In fact, I might put up an AfD for that category just because it will always remain incomplete. We basically know all of the SWs in ThunderClan since that's where the point of view is coming from. But we have not the faintest clue who's SW in the other Clans. I mean, yes, there's the ones who are older cats than some of the newer ones, but we still don't know for sure if they are SWs. Then there are the middle group where they've been alive a couple of books, yet they're not as old as others, and we really don't know. Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 01:20, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Hmmmm true, it won't ever be complete, but then most categories won't ever be "complete". We probably won't know every Windclan cat for instance, or every Tribe of Endless Hunting cat. But you're right, the only ones we really know are ThunderClan. I'm not sure it's really needed. I'd support and AfD, but not necessarily cause it won't ever be "complete". Paleh Send help 21:42, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

This sounds like a good idea. I have an idea for citing a character being described as a senior warrior. If one cat is newly mentioned as one, cats that are of similar age can have that used as their citation as well. That would make sense, since I'd think age pretty much qualifies a cat for a senior warrior rank. Oh, and yeah, I'm trying to be helpful to other projects now, so hi! :) Iveh Yo ! 21:55, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Ohai Ivy! 8D But it's not always about age. Usually, but not always, so it'd be assuming if we cited a cat as a senior warrior cause a cat a similar age is one. For instance, Thistleclaw and Tigerclaw established themselves as senior warriors fairly young, before Bluestar even, who was older than them. Paleh Send help 23:42, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

I would cite the ranks, however, I still am against having senior warriors being added. While "being incomplete" is definitively not a legal reason to delete a category or disregard the rank, it's still pretty biased. I mean, we'd have most all of ThunderClan as senior warriors and maybe some RiverClan due to Crookedstar's Promise, but otherwise it'd seem we would be favoring ThunderClan. Plus, as Paleclaw said, age is a hint but not a fact. Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 03:33, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

When Ivystripe said "If one cat is newly mentioned as [a senior warrior], cats that are of similar age can have that used as their citation as well. That would make sense, since I'd think age pretty much qualifies a cat for a senior warrior rank." I disagree, unless you can provide a citation that verifies that "senior" status is contingent exclusively on age and not other (currently unknown) factors. Kitsufox ^Den/_CoSC 19:56, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Piketooth ~ Silver Nomination

I redid a couple things, added a bit of history. Very minor character... Comments?—.neha^{it's that gloom boy season.} 22:20, April 29, 2012 (UTC)Moonshine

Could you add maybe a couple more quotes?-Duck sauce

Can you try and detail the history a little more? —Jayce(22:38,4/29/2012)

Gar I was gonna nominate him. :3 Can you combine some of the paragraphs? There seems to be more than necessary. User:A Cat Named Cheshire/Sig 22:39, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

I own Crookedstar's Promise, so I looked for quotes before I nominated him. There aren't anymore—.neha^{it's that gloom boy season.}

Done. I detailed the history as much as I could. With the combining of paragraphs, all of them were about different things, so i couldn't really combine them.--—.neha^{it's that gloom boy season.} 20:39, May 1, 2012 (UTC)Moonshine

There's a status issue on his page. Can you either fix it or have someone else fix it? User:A Cat Named Cheshire/Sig 13:08, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

(I fixed it, Chez, it only takes a second.) In the third paragraph from the bottom, is it possible to detail Crookedjaw and Willowpaw's conversation any more? -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 13:33, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

I know this was already addressed, but it's not pleasing to the eye to see all those small paragraphs just derping around. Try describing the situation as much a possible, just to put it into perspective timewise. Maybe mention what Crookedjaw was doing when he saw Piketooth doing things (i.e. Playing with kits). That should make it easier to combine. ☾Moon flight ☽ 18:27, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

This has not been touched in 11 days. Are you still working on this? Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 03:16, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to take this over. :3 -Duck sauce 05:48, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

I finished everything that was mentioned up there.^ Anymore comments? =) -Duck sauce 19:43, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Willowshine ~ Silver Nomination

8D Willowshine~ Her style and history seems quite well now, except the sections of Po3, which I'll get to. Comments? Stoneclaw 04:12, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

You might consider changing the main quote. Just because there are more descriptive ones, like when she talks about how much she loves being a medicine cat and what have you.... x3 -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 04:16, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expant the sections Dawn, Sign of The Moon, Eclipse, and Outcast in any way? -Duck sauce

If you've fixed the concerns on her talk page, can you remove the box saying that she needs improvements? User:A Cat Named Cheshire/Sig 01:11, May 4, 01 (UTC)

I removed the style template, and I changed the quote, but it was changed again...*shrugs* I'll get to the history now. Stoneclaw 19:10, May 12, 2012 (UTC)

Is the history done? Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 20:44, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Weedwhisker ~ Silver Nomination

I reworded the history a bit, and added some things. I couldn't find any quotes to add. Anyways, comments?--—.neha^{it's that gloom boy season.} 23:26, May 1, 2012 (UTC)Moonshine

Could you reword the first paragraph and expand the next two sentences?^♘Duck ^Splash ^♞

12:18, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

On his talk page it says he's only started status. Can you change it to bronze? User:A Cat Named Cheshire/Sig13:12, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

I upgraded it to bronze. But could you detail the second paragraph of BP? I seem to remember either him saying something about Bluepaw's squirrel, or one of the warriors saying that he'd enjoy it.... -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 23:38, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

This has been up for much longer than needed. I'm going to take over. Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 18:21, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

So, I expanded Weedwhisker a bit as addressed, comments? Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 20:44, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

CBV? —Jayce(06:49,6/9/2012)

New Feature on Charcats Coming Soon

For those of you that don't know yet, a new feature on the charcats will be coming soon. At the moment there's a few kinks that are being worked out, but it'll be done sooner than later.

The switch template will be for characters such as the daylight warriors who are two ranks at once. The page linked shows how to use it when it's all done. Sicne this template will be only effecting character articles, I figured it'd be best to post it here. ^^

Ciao. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 04:00, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Willowpelt - Silver Nomination

I've wanted to nominate her since I first joined PC. Anyway, I changed the main quote, and I'll be adding more this evening. I expanded the overall history, and added a section for Midnight, because she was mentioned. So, suggestions? -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 00:24, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

This is just a pet peeve of mine, but could you get the quotes section in chronological order? Shelly_{For a limited time only} 01:13, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand the Fireand Ice and A Dangerous Path sections?☛Duc kspl ash☚ 02:24, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

I fixed the quotes. Why on earth did I arrange them like that? I can't expand Fire and Ice because I don't have the book, but I'd really appreciate it if someone who does have it could help me out. If there's anything else to add, that is. I can't expand A Dangerous Path at all, but I rephrased it a little. -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 14:49, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

I can help you out with Fire and Ice. ★ Berry ★^{Midnight Monster's Parade!} 15:10, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

That would be great; thanks! :3 -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 13:52, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Is this still being worked on? Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 18:21, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

I am, but I don't think Berryflower has expanded FaI yet. -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 01:31, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I haven't had time to look at Fire and Ice, I'll do it now :3 ★ Berry ★^{Midnight Monster's Parade!} 11:45, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Halftail and One-eye's ages.

It states on Halftail's page that he is older than One-eye. Is this confirmed? Or is it just assumed he is older because he was a Warrior when she was an Apprentice? She could have been held back because of her blind eye, and could've need more training than warriors with complete vision. Thank you for your time :3 -bows- ★ Berry ★^{Midnight Monster's Parade!} 10:45, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Brightsky - Silver Nomination

Oh, Wikia, I love how I spent time preparing this article only for you to crash when I was done. I really appreciated it, thanks. In all seriousness, the article itself was in good shape, but the history needed expansion. I added some extra quotes too. Hm...well, comments? -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 00:41, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

There's an abundance of quotes of which I would recommend picking 4 or lower and removing the rest. There are also a few odd, minor, one sentenced paragraphs; if you could possibly find a way to squish those into some other paragraph, that's be awesome. The history looks wonderful though. Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 18:21, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

I narrowed down the quotes to three. I mashed up the short paragraphs, but if it doesn't flow well, I can fix it. Thank you. ^.^ -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 00:06, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

CBV? —Jayce(06:49,6/9/2012)

Loudbelly ~ Silver Nomination

CP needed heaps of expansion. Well, anyways, comments? ★ Berry ★^{Midnight Monster's Parade!} 12:43, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand Fire and Ice?☛Duc kspl ash☚ 18:10, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Expanded it as much as I could. ★ Berry ★^{Midnight Monster's Parade!} 03:27, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Can you possibly expand Dawn? RowanOnly One Can Judge... 18:22, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

I tried, all I could do was make it a little more descriptive. ★ Berry ★^{Midnight Monster's Parade!} 03:15, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Also expanded Crookedstar's Promise, bigtime XD ★ Berry ★^{Midnight Monster's Parade!} 04:51, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

CBV? —Jayce(06:50,6/9/2012)

Lapping Wave- Silver Nomination

I could probably expand some of his history in SotM. Comments? First nomination ever..B o o s ^{Dinosaurs ^on a} Spaceship! 21:03, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Expanded SotM.--.B o o s ^{Dinosaurs ^on a} Spaceship! 01:15, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

CBV? —Jayce(06:51,6/9/2012)

Tangle ~ Silver Nomination

Wasn't much to work on in the manga books, but I'm flipping through SkyClan's Destiny and Firestar's Quest right now, so I'll edit his a bit more soon. Comments? I will also be adding more quotes. ☯ Mistypebble ☯ 03:58, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Expand SkyClan's Destiny. RowanOnly One Can Judge... 18:21, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Expanded Firestar's Quest, and added a new quote. I'll add more to SkyClan's Destiny in a bit. ☯ Mistypebble ☯ 02:34, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Expanded/detailed SkyClan's Destiny more. ☯ Mistypebble ☯ 00:35, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Softwing - Silver Nomination

Before, I expanded a little bit of history in CP. I will be adding some more quotes in the near future. Comments? RowanOnly One Can Judge... 18:27, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

There needs to be the cite that only Thunderclan's allegiances were listed in BP. I'll add that in for you.--.B o o s ^{Dinosaurs ^on a} Spaceship! 19:19, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I was trying to find it xD RowanOnly One Can Judge... 19:21, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Are there any more quotes?☛Duc kspl ash☚ 22:23, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

If you've taken care of the concerns listed on the talk page, could you cross them out and remove the template at the top of the article please? -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 16:58, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

All set Holly. I added another quote and I will find more if needed. RowanOnly One Can Judge... 16:44, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Windflight ~ Silver Nomination

I would like to nominate Windflight for Silver status; I added details to his Bluestar's Prophecy history and replaced/rewrote some of the sentences, as they weren't in event order. Starry Hawk _{My _Talk!} 01:35, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Nice job! Can you add a few more quotes and remove the template on top of the page?☛Duc kspl ash☚ 01:50, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, I added 3 quotes and removed the template. Starry Hawk _{My _Talk!} 02:18, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

One of the quotes has a typo in the description. Also, is it possible to add dialogues to the single quotes? ☾Moon flight ☽ 22:47, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I edited the typo; and how do I add dialogues? --Starry Hawk _{My _Talk!} 23:25, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Like this. Does that help? -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 23:40, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Dappletail - Silver Nomination

Expanded the history and added some new quotes. Comments? -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 01:34, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Is there any way you can expand Secrets of the Clans? ☛Duc kspl ash☚ 21:55, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Looks awesome for the most part. All I think it needs is the Bluestar's Prophecy section to be edited. Could you try to combine the little paragraphs. I wrote something, maybe include a little context. :) ☾Moon flight ☽ 22:33, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, there isn't anything else in Secrets of the Clans. I worked on BP. -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 16:20, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Idea for Charcat- Book of Birth and Death

I believe that we should have an info box thing in Charcat that says what book the cat was born in and what book the cat died in.

I'm unsure if I submit ideas on the talk page....

Starry Hawk _{My _Talk!} 07:11, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, we already have the books living and books dead sections so I don't think we need this. But I understand how it could be different. Wild fire^{^{Mistystar's Omen!}} 19:46, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think it is very necessary.... You can either look at the infobox or the character article to find out. User:A Cat Named Cheshire?Sig 17:30, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm well aware that we can look at the info box, but sometimes, the cat doesn't physically appear in the book. As for the article, I doubt people would want to search the history to find the birth or death of one cat. --Starry Hawk _{My _Talk!} 17:37, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I don't quite get what you mean. IF a cat's born, and we know they are, that book's added to the living books, regardless of whether they appeared or not. Fore xample Brackenfur wasn't mentioned by name anywhere in Into the Wild, but we know he was alive then due to later revelations, so he's listed as alive in there. It's fine as is, the whole birth and death thing isn't really needed. Paleh Send help 20:16, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Gorsetail (P3) - Silver Nomination

Doesn't appear much, so I don't really have a lot to say. Apple dash ^the ^light ^of ^honor 01:31, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Any more quotes, I remember her saying a few things to Jayfeather in The Last Hope. --☛Duc kspl ash☚ 04:05, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

~~She doesn't appear in the Last Hope, at least I didn't see her. Apple dash ^the ^light ^of ^honor 02:36, June 2, 2012 (UTC)~~ Oh Celestia, I'm blind. I'll get to work. Apple dash ^the ^light ^of ^honor 02:37, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think any of her speaking parts are quote-worthy. They don't really do anything to describe her personality, and that's what quoets are for, right? Apple dash ^the ^light ^of ^honor 22:10, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Running Horse - Silver Nomination

This was an article that I worked on a while ago, but I never got a round to nominating. Does it need any work? ☾Moon flight ☽ 22:19, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

CBV? —Jayce(06:53,6/9/2012)

Crookedstar as a Loner

Alright, I'm officially moving this conversation to where it belongs, which is here. PCA's been arguing about whether or not Crookedkit was a loner when he left RiverClan and spent a couple months on a farm with other loners.

The conversation started with whether or not the cats that went to sun-drown-place should have gotten loner ranks, and led to a discussion about Crookedkit.

I'm of the opinion that there's one huge difference between these cats:

The travelling cats left on Clan business, sent by StarClan to save their Clans, and thus never stopped being Clan cats.

Crookedkit left on his own without permission and by his own free will. Sure, he did intend to return at first, but once he gave up going to the Moonstone and just stayed with the loners at the farm, I see no reason to not consider him as having been a loner at the time. He was over nine moons old living outside of the Clans without holding any ill will towards the Clans, which fits the bill for loner pretty cleanly.

Thoughts? Shelly_{For a limited time only} 22:26, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you. He was over 6 moons old and didn't have a specific owner or group.--.B o o s ^{Dinosaurs ^on a} Spaceship! 22:30, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you on the cats who left for the sun-drown-place, but I don't necessarily think Crookedkit is a loner. He still had influence from "StarClan" i.e. Mapleshade during his time on the farm. Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 23:13, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, but what does that have to do with being a loner? Ravenpaw is influenced and believes in StarClan, too. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 23:54, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to always stick by my argument that he does not deserve to be classified as a loner. For one, Mapleshade said "If you stay here much longer you will be one", and that's when he decided to go back to his Clan. He did not want to be a loner and always considered himself a loyal RiverClan cat. He left to go to the Moonstone, not to run away and become one. He always had the intention of going back. Ravenpaw, on the other hand, never intended to go back, and so he hasn't. Iveh Yo ! 00:01, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Why should it matter what he thought he was? He stayed away from his Clan, even after he abandoned his quest to go to the Moonstone. He forsook his place in his Clan, and when he returned he was punished for it. I'm still of the opinion that he was a loner. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 15:31, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Frankly, I'd call him thinking he's not a loner as pure denial, and Mapleshade telling him that he'd be a loner if he stayed as her saying anything to coerce him back to the Clan. She lied to him plenty of times, why should this be any different? Shelly_{For a limited time only} 15:34, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

And think about it. If Leafpool had left with Crowfeather, but the entire time she was gone she kept thinking to herself that she was ThunderClan's loyal medicine cat, would that have made her any less of a loner? Shelly_{For a limited time only} 16:01, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with Shelly, Crookedkit left his Clan, he knew what he was doing. --☛Duc kspl ash☚ 18:54, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

We labeled Graystripe a loner when he was actively trying to return to his Clan after being taken from it unwillingly, did we not? Why not do the same for Crookedstar, who willingly left his Clan and wasn't trying to return for weeks despite being perfectly capable of doing so? Shelly_{For a limited time only} 19:35, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

You all make great points as to why Crookedkit would be or would not be classified as a loner. In my own person opinion, I believe he should be classified as loner. He was over 6 moons old, which means he wasn't a kit anymore, and he didn't belong to a specific Clan at the time. But, he still classified himself as a Clan cat, so a part of me believes that he wouldn't be a loner. I'm torn into two n this, but I think he probably would be classified as a loner. ★ Berry ★^{Midnight Monster's Parade!} 11:42, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sticking to my opinion that he's not a loner, and that's not changing. He always intended to go back, he left in intent to communicate with StarClan, he always considered himself a clan cat, and as Ivy pointed out, he was told if he stayed much longer he would become a loner. Meaning he wasn't one at the time. And your point about Mapleshade saying anything to get him back doesn't really make much sense. Saying he was already a loner would probably get him to come back just as much as saying he would be a loner soon. She would have no real incentive to lie in that case as she did in other cases. And would you call any cat that went to the moonstone in the OS and stayed at Barely's barn for a point of time a loner? No. So Crookedkit shouldn't really be either. Paleh Send help 02:13, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

No, except Crookedkit wasn't a going to the Moonstone when he was sitting around at the barn, gorging himself on mice and not going anywhere. As I pointed out, he gave up on his quest the moment he got to the barn and was shown how to eat. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 02:16, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

And if we don't classify Crookedstar has having been a loner, then we cannot do so for Millie and Graystripe who were seeking out the Clans actively when we classified them as loners. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 02:17, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Staying somewhere outside your clan doesn't classify you as a loner. And there's a difference with trying to find the clans, and never officially "leaving" one. Graystripe was ThunderClan then clearly left when he was captured. He was a kittypet for a time. Then he went to find the clans. He wasn't a clan cat at the time. However Crookedkit went on a trip to find the moonstone, never truly leaving he clan. They're totally different cases. Paleh Send help 02:23, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

As I've pointed out several times already, Crookedkit gave up trying to get to the Moonstone shortly after he got to the farm. He was not trying to get to the Moonstone while he stayed with the loners. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 19:14, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I've been thinking about this for a while, and I do think he should be classified a loner. True, he didn't officially leave his Clan, and he didn't necessarily consider himself a loner, but he did live with them for quite a while, fully aware that he should and could return to RiverClan. Even though he intended on going back, he procrastinated about it for quite a while. The loners acted like they wanted him around, while RiverClan didn't; that was enough incentive for him to stay as long as he did, and probably would have kept him there for even longer. -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 15:15, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

I already said my opinion, but that above basically concretes the decision for me.--.B o o s ^{Dinosaurs ^on a} Spaceship! 20:24, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Well, sorry to be argumentative, but I'm still not convinced he deserves to be called one. When Ravenpaw was forced to leave, he had no intentions of coming back, but we never once heard Crookedkit tell himself he planned to stay. Iveh Yo ! 20:27, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Then what does that say about Graystripe, who didn't think himself a loner, was actively seeking ThunderClan, and we still have classified as having been a loner? It doesn't matter what Crookedkit thought, he was away from RiverClan for an extended period of time for no reason after he abandoned his quest to find the Moonstone. He was a loner. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 02:01, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

All I gotta say is this:

Graystripe was forcibly taken from ThunderClan, and if memory serves, didn't he eventually start to wonder if he was really a warrior of ThunderClan anymore?

Crookedkit was originally traveling to the Moonstone, but stayed with some loners for a while to help out with kits. He had every intention of going back; Graystripe didn't even know if he'd ever find ThunderClan again.

Argue if you wish. But Graystripe and Crookedkit are two totally different cases, and should be treated as such. —Jayce(02:50,6/11/2012)

Exactly, Cloudy. Actually, it's a miracle that Graystripe even found them in the first place. I haven't read the second and third installments to the manga trilogy, but come on. Your home is being destroyed, you're taken to God-knows-where, don't you think he knew there was a chance he'd never come back? And that he wasn't technically a Clan cat while looking for them? I dunno. It'd be a lot easier if I had read it for reference but you get my point. Iveh Yo ! 02:59, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Hussar - Silver Nomination

Expanded history, and added the one and only quote that really showed Hussar's personality. Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 23:13, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Harveymoon~ Silver nomination

Well, on his talk page he is graded started, so why not make him bronze? If I'm doing this wrong, please tell me. I've already added some quotes, I'm just going to work on the articles. ☾Mossnose☽^{User blog:Mossnose33} 20:22, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

We only nominate articles for Silver and Gold. If you want, you can nominate him for Silver, and change his status to Bronze. Best, RowanOnly One Can Judge... 20:24, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

I guess I'll do that. :3 ☾Mossnose☽^{User blog:Mossnose33} 13:20, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand SkyClan's Destiny? --☛Duc kspl ash☚ 20:28, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

A tip for quotes.

Hey all.

I was troubled about Tumblekit's article for a little while, since his main quote had him mentioned as a female, but suddenly an idea hit me.

When writing a paper in APA or MLA format, you can change quotes slightly to suit your paper (either changing the tense of the quote, correcting spelling, or removing unimportant text), as long as you put the change in brackets.

Basically, what you do is this:

Original quote: "Take care of her, she's so little."

New quote: "Take care of [him], [he's] so little." (I only put the words in separate brackets because of the punctuation between them. Otherwise, you don't need to.)

When you want to take something out, you put an elipses in brackets where the old text was.

Original quote: "I am Lionheart. I was a ThunderClan warrior. In a fierce battle, I died defending my Clan. Now I belong to StarClan, a Clan of the spirits of our warrior ancestors. Yes, you are dreaming. We often walk in the dreams of those we watch. Don't be afraid. I know it looks like a land of mist and shadow, but I promise there is enough light to warm the darkest of hearts. From here, we watch over the Clans we have left behind."

Shortened quote: "I am Lionheart. [...] Now I belong to StarClan, a Clan of the spirits of our warrior ancestors. Yes, you are dreaming. We often walk in the dreams of those we watch. Don't be afraid. I know it looks like a land of mist and shadow, but I promise there is enough light to warm the darkest of hearts. From here, we watch over the Clans we have left behind."

I think this could be helpful to know once in a while. You can correct quotes that have errors in them, like I did with Tumblekit's page, or you could shorten lengthy quotes to keep in the important bits.

And yeah, I asked Kit, she's fine with this.

I hope some of you find this helpful. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 02:12, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

I did this on Jessamy and Flower's pages too o3o oblivion^Audience? 04:23, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Erm, I don't really think it was needed there... honestly, we should only use this to shorten quotes or fix mistakes, not to expand them. But I could be wrong. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 16:20, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

It only said "They". Just putting "They" isn't very clear, since the quote could be talking about anyone. oblivion^Audience? 16:32, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but that's why people read the entire article and not just the main quote... I know what you're getting at and why you want to do it, but I don't think that that quote needed to be changed. I think leaving "they" makes the person reading the quote want to look down to see the rest of the article, it has a more significant air to it. Like the quote on Poppyfrost's page. It says "the tortoiseshell cat" and not "Poppyfrost", but it's implied simply for being at the head of the article that it's most likely talking abut Poppyfrost, and it has a serious tone to it that encourages anyone looking at it to continue reading. --Shelly_{For a limited time only} 21:23, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Regardless of what we're doing with the quotes, we shouldn't start doing this until the entire community agrees upon it, and it's added into the guidelines. Quite honestly, I think the quotes are fine how they are, mistakes and all. It's what makes Warriors what it is. xD

The opinions of one admin and a member of the wiki is not a community consensus (I don't care if it's Kit who okay'd it or not), so I would appreciate it if no one changed the quotes until everyone has had their fair say in what's going on, since it's such a major change.

My biggest issue is people not knowing how to use it, even with examples. There are some people that would probably still mess up somehow, which is one of the reasons I'd like to keep the quotes how they are. —Jayce(00:43,6/4/2012)

If someone doesn't know how to use it, we can always correct them. That's why there's a lot of us on this wiki. The mistakes of one person doesn't screw up the entire encyclopedia, because there is always someone around to fix things.

Why do we need community consensus on this thing? It's an APA approved method of editing quotes. You see it in news articles, in official papers, and on websites like Wikipedia all the time. This method causes less confusion when a quote like the one on Tumblekit's page contradicts the information directly below it by calling him a she-cat. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 00:55, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Because it's a major change to how we do things, and that way everyone gets a chance to have a say in what's going on. Just because it's how everyone else does it, does not mean we can act upon it without everyone else having their say? How do the project leads and other admins feel about this? APA or not (I know what it is, I've used it multiple times), there are going to be users who don't know how to use it, and I think until everyone has a grasp on just what's going on, it should stay how it is. —Jayce(01:03,6/4/2012)

This does not constitute a "major change" to anything, Cloudy. It just acknowledges something that's already being done by people like Loonie as acceptable. Shelly only put it out as an option, not something that's mandatory. It's a tip, an option. It's not like it's being put out there as a way things must be done. It's better than just correcting errors in quotes (and thus stopping them from being quotes anymore). Grammar is required, but there was no vote about that. Because it's how everyone else in the intellectual publishing realm does it, that makes it the obvious best choice for dealing with corrections here. This isn't a change to a policy. This is a suggestion for a way to deal with something. If you don't like the APA system for quote correction, just don't use it. Given that this is used by newspapers, too, people might not know how to do it but they at least know how to read it already.

Also, for the record: I didn't "okay" it. I moreso gave my opinion when Shelly asked me what I thought about using it to address corrections in quotes. Given that it's the publishing standard, there's no reason we shouldn't use it, and there's no reason to discuss it. Kitsufox ^Den/_CoSC 01:11, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Seriously, putting this to vote would be like putting the use of capital letters at the beginning of a sentence to vote. It's a widely accepted writing tool. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 01:17, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

It's a major change for the wiki, so don't go saying it's not. You know as well as I do that there are people here who don't know how to use it. It may be proper grammar, but if we all of the sudden start changing things around, the rest of the general editors who don't know how to use it are going to think it's being done for reasons other than what's intended. Quite honestly, I don't care what style is used, as long as it makes sense. However, I do get annoyed when people change quotes. It takes the meaning out of it. If we're not going to be correct and 100% accurate with our quotes, we shouldn't have them on that page to begin with.

Imho, it should be optional, and if we're going to start using this "idea", it better stay that way. I'm not being forced to use something like that. It's not a direct quote to me, therefore I'm not using it. The inconsistencies are what I like most about this series, and when you're changing quotes around like that, it takes the meaning out of it. (~~thank you for making me seem like an idiot for wanting everyone else's opinions first~~)—Jayce(01:22,6/4/2012)

I doubt this needs to be mandatory. There aren't a ton of situations that arise (on this wiki) where it's incredibly useful. The incident with the incorrect gender is a perfect candidate for this situation, because it keeps users from being confused on gender of a character and keep things clear, while acknowledging that the correct gender of the character was not used in the original quote. And I don't see this as mandatory. It's an option, a way to deal with those inconsistencies and keep them from turning into unintentional misinformation. Kitsufox ^Den/_CoSC 01:25, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect genders, yes (although don't we use a //trivia statement// for that, though? e.e) But, not an everyday quote. Maybe once in a blue moon, it could be used, but I really don't want to see brackets and like matter on every other quote, whether it be too long, or there's a word or something missing. Quite honestly, it should only be used where it's the only other option. If that's not stated //somewhere//, mark my words, there will be users who misuse this idea and put their own words into articles, and that's what I'm trying to prevent. —Jayce(01:32,6/4/2012)

Cloudy, I did not mean to imply anything about your intelligence, and I apologize: I realize that what I said could be construed as such.

I never had any intention of making this mandatory. Which is why I did not want to put it to a vote, because doing so may have forced it to be mandatory. This is an option for clearing up inconsistencies in quotes. I know Warriors is full of errors, I had to go through and clean up our nearly endless log of every error in the series several months ago. It took hours. But that doesn't mean our encyclopdia has to have errors in it. I think that correcting Tumblekit's gender in his quotes is the best way to clear up confusion: at the very least, it'll stop more confusion than it starts.

And if the method is misused anywhere, all we need to do is correct the issue. No need to make a big deal out of it. I only intended this method to be used in places like Tumblekit's page, but I pointed out other ways to use it in case such an occasion arose where that'd be the best thing to do. I put this explination here for PC so they'd know that it's an option and how it can be used. If you'd like to publish it in the other projects that handle quotes, feel free to do so in order to spread its use around so people are less confused by it. This is not a major change, it's just something small that doesn't need to be sweated over. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 01:35, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

A quote going at the top of the page definitely needs a correction if the wrong gender is used, to avoid confusing someone just skimming and not actually reading the whole sheet. But you're right. It's a "once in a blue moon" sort of thing, to ensure that confusion does not happen. It's rare that a "split" type quote is likely the best candidate for describing a character.

And honestly... People already insert their own words into articles, their own concepts and their own ideas. I'm sure their are cases of users making up quotes or using them out of fanfics. It's not going to change or cause any extra problems. Most of them probably won't even notice this system start to get used.

Kitsufox ^Den/_CoSC 01:36, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

It's just an idea to use. Everyone's seen the pros and cons of using brackets to interject something when in a quote via Cloudy's opinion and Shelly's opinion on them. Users can choice whether they want to or not. Let's leave it at that. 'Kay? Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 01:44, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Ok I'm not disagreeing with using these in some cases (such as Tumblekit), but only for certain thing. Such as mistakes on gender, descriptions, and so on. I'm don't support us shortening a quote, or adding more information that wasn't already there. A quote really is supposed to be something directly taken from the book. However the books do often make mistakes, and it'd be good to fix those to avoid confusion. Nothing else. And for this reason I agree with Cloudy on getting at least some others' opinions. Not a vote per say, just people commenting with their thoughts on this so we at least know most of us are in agreement. Like we did when we were deciding if Death causes should be listed on charcats, and things of the sort. 68.104.94.107 01:53, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Whoops, on another computer and forgot to log in. Paleh Send help 01:58, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Join

Hi! I'm Maglorian, and I just joined. I wasn't sure where to start editing, so I saw project and liked this one. Do I need to be invited to get in or something? :) Thanks.

Maglorian

I've just added you to the project members list, please read the guidelines or refer to the FAQ if help is needed. Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 02:22, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Smokefoot ~ Silver Nomination

Kay, I know this one isn't taken.

Anyway, all I could see to do was expand The Sight a tiny bit. Comments? Shelly_{For a limited time only} 02:25, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

=D Thanks.

Maglorian ^(Talk) 03:08, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Can you expand The Last Hope, Eclipse, and Fading Echoes any?☛Duc kspl ash☚ 17:03, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

A Return and Proposal

Hey it's Quail. Sorry I was gone so long. I've explained on the charart page everything, so go there to see my statement. I have two things to say.

One is that I wish to be added back onto the project. Second is that i have a proposal.

So many characters that have no description are described by the narration and by other cats. Seeing that some major cats quotes are like this, couldn't we do the same for cats with no dialogue? User:QuailflightTheCat/Sig 05:14, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

We already do this, do we not? I did it for Gorsestar. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 16:31, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Not really. There's a lot that could have main quotes but don't. (someone please add me back to the project list) User:QuailflightTheCat/Sig 23:58, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see why not. If a quote's at least about a cat, it can be added to a page. There's no rule against it. I've seen plenty of cats with quotes like that on their page. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 00:03, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Quailflight, I'll add you in soon, sorry. Please brush up on the FAQ and the guidelines. And I'm agreeing with Shelly on the subject. -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 21:02, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Rosepetal - Silver Nomination

I expanded her history and added some quotes. =) Comments? ☛Duc kspl ash☚ 05:20, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Expand Sign of the Moon. I'm pretty sure there's more about her in that book. Like the dog incident? Stoneclaw 05:27, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Done. ☛Duc kspl ash☚ 16:12, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Looks pretty good, overall. Could you expand The Forgotten Warrior and The Last Hope? I know she appeared more in TFW, and TLH could be detailed a bit. -Holly dapple 7 9 8- 20:53, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, and finished. ☛Duc kspl ash☚ 05:36, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Can Night Whispers be expanded more? Apple dash ^the ^light ^of ^honor 17:43, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Finished. ---Duck sauce 21:34, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Sneezepaw ~ Silver Nomination

Comments? I can't find anymore quotes, because he only speaks once, and the other is just a quote from Swallowtail and Mallowkit that has nothing to do with his personality. —Jayce(16:49,6/5/2012)

Are there any quotes from The Fourth Apprentice about what he looks like on the lake patrol? I think that could be included. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 16:59, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Nope. He was only mentioned to be on the patrol. He doesn't speak, nor interacts with the Clan cats. —Jayce(17:01,6/5/2012)

I don't mean a quote from him, I mean a quote about him. Worst comes to worst, you could use something like that if you want. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 17:03, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

I knew what you meant. I found something that could be used...it's not the idealist of quotes, but a quote nevertheless. —Jayce(17:08,6/5/2012)

Leaftail ~ Silver Nomination

He's an allegiances only character, but I think he still has to be nominated because he's mentioned outside of the allegiances by another cat, and he's got a quote (although it's not really that major). —Jayce(17:11,6/5/2012)

I don't see anything wrong with it. Good job. Apple dash ^the ^light ^of ^honor 00:07, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Can I Join?

Do I need to do something to join? Or just post here? Thanks!

Ripplefrost 01:58, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Please read the guidelines and refer to the FAQ if you have any questions. Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 02:03, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Thistletail ~ Silver Nomination

CoTC can't be expanded and he already has a main quote. Comments? User:A Cat Named Cheshire/Sig 18:29, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Dawn River - Silver Nomination

Because I was being a derp, I accidentally archived my own nomination without having it go to a vote (lol, facepalm); so, I'm renominating my work from March. xD Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 22:30, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Sol's Twoleg ~ Silver Nomination

Well, I suggested this article and I wrote it, too. Put some quotes in there. It. Looks. Spiffy. >8|

Comments? Shelly_{For a limited time only} 02:31, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Looks really good! Any more quotes? --☛Duc kspl ash☚ 05:54, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Can you add anymore to the description through the images? I remember her being short and having her hair in a bun.--.B o o s ^{Dinosaurs ^on a} Spaceship! 12:11, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

There aren't really any other quotes I can find that are very significant. And I can't make a call on how short or tall she is... she's never pictured next to another Twoleg, only next to cats. Nor can I make a description based on what she was wearing or how she had her hair that day, because those are artificial aspects of her that change each day depending on what she wants, not like the color of fur which typically stays about the same, normally. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 16:56, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, found one more quote that fits. That gives us a solid four quotes. Good? Shelly_{For a limited time only} 17:01, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't the quote with Leafstar's nickname (Little Miss Mama Cat) be capitalized in the quote? --Starry Hawk _{My _Talk!} 17:05, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

It's lower case in the comic. It's just a nickname, the Twoleg points out as she talks that she needs to come up with an actual name for her. I listed miss mama cat on Leafstar's page as her kittypet name because that's all the Twoleg calls her. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 17:09, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Cedarpelt ~ Silver Nomination

Re-wrote and added more description to Bluestar's Prophecy. But other than that, there wasn't much more I could do. Comments? ★ Berry ★^{Midnight Monster's Parade!} 07:14, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Can you cite the trivia and add, maybe, one more quote? =) «Duc kspl ash» 22:08, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Added =3 ★ Berry ★^{Midnight Monster's Parade!} 02:33, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Thistlepaw's Gender

Kay, I'm having a hard time getting a conversation to move on Thistlepaw's talk page, but I'll move it here. Here's what has been said on the topic thus far:

Hiya...

Well, I think we got the gender wrong for Thistlepaw here. Just my opinion, and I'd like to get the opinions of others for this. We typically go with either the first description of a cat or the most used description, I believe. In Thistlepaw's case, he/she is both described as a she-cat first and most often. S/he is described as a tom on a single page in Dark River (according to the citations in the trivia) and once in the allegiances of Sunrise.

Since s/he is most often described as a she-cat, I think we should be counting him/her as a female in our encyclopedia...

Thoughts? Shelly_{For a limited time only} 22:39, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Well, looking at the situation of Rowanclaw, wasn't he called female multiple times and then turned out to be male? I would change Thistlepaw's gender, but it may cause problems for uninformed users poking around trying to get edits up. We should stay true to the allegiances, so use the gender that comes up the most in the allegiances. User:QuailflightTheCat/Sig 00:05, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

I still don't think so. The allegiances are often riddled with errors. The only time Thistlepaw actually appears in the books s/he is only mentioned as male once, and every other time as female. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 21:36, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

I think so. We did this with Dovewing for her eye color, when she was first called with pale golden eyes, but she was called with blue eyes more, so we gave her blue eyes. Same with Snake(BC) and Ice, at first, we had them gray, but they were called black and white more, so we made them black and white. i don't see why it wouldn't be the same here. Maple♥pool^{^{Mischief brewing}} _{_{Sirius lover}} 21:45, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, the descriptions were changed because we didn't know if the gray cats described then were actually them, but I //do// see your point about Dovewing. —Jayce(21:53,6/7/2012)

How many times do I have to tell you people that her eyes were green first? Anyway, s/he's called female first and most often. So what shall we do? Shelly_{For a limited time only} 02:18, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

It would mean there wouldn't need to be an edit to his/her quotes~ Shelly_{For a limited time only} 02:20, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

We usually go with what's mentioned //first//, unless something else is more common...at least I think (Pardon me, brain's a little fuzzy from my cold). If Thistlepaw's mentioned as a she-cat more often, as well as first, then it should be changed. It seems to be our best bet... —Jayce(18:46,6/9/2012)

(Sorry about your cold, Cloudy) So, can I just change the gender? I see no opposition in the comments made. Shelly_{For a limited time only} 00:24, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

I agree to changing Thistlepaw's gender to female as per the points proven above. Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 16:50, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Mmkay, I'm changing the gender to female. Don't need consensus on this, I was just here to get opinions. --Shelly_{For a limited time only} 16:56, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Bone ~ Silver Nomination

Just added a few bits and pieces in~ I'll be adding in a couple more quotes in a second, but anyways, comments? ★ Berry ★^{Midnight Monster's Parade!} 08:08, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Could you expand RoS a bit?--.B o o s ^{Dinosaurs ^on a} Spaceship! 11:22, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Done what I could without the book. I'll grab it from my library tomorrow =3 ★ Berry ★^{Midnight Monster's Parade!} 13:02, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Detail The Darkest Hour and Cats of the Clans. Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 18:06, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Kinkfur - Silver Nomination

I added The Last Hope section awhile ago and I detailed Eclipse. I'm not quite sure about the quote I added at the bottom as a main quote. Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 18:06, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Can you detail Night Whispers and Fading Echoes any? -Duck sauce 18:12, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

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-[[Forum:Silver Nomination - Snowy|Snowy]] - Silver Nomination<br />[[Forum:Silver Nomination - Coal|Coal]] - Silver Nomination<br />[[Forum:Silver Nomination - Harespring|Harespring]] - Silver Nomination<br />[[Forum:Silver Nomination - Rock Beneath Still Water|Rock Beneath Still Water]] - Silver Nomination<br />[[Forum:Silver Nomination - Flight of Startled Heron|Flight of Startled Heron]] - Silver Nomination}}
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